Akai Force vs Maschine Plus - the DEFINITIVE comparison! 2022 update
Vložit
- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- This is a DEFINITIVE comparison between the Akai Force vs. the Maschine plus. Comparing ways they are different 13 areas - like a streetfighter head-to-head battle. These are obviously my thoughts on how the Force and the Maschine are different - and my ratings. Leave a comment if you think I left something out, or agree/disagree with my assessment.
**Corrections
1. You CAN mute individual pads on the Force. If you're in note mode, you can hold down mute and then select individual pads. Still doesn't change my scoring for that section, though!
2. You can use a Komplete audio interface with the Maschine to expand outputs.
0:00 - intro
1:09 - Inputs & Outputs
2:19 - Navigation
3:50 - Headphones
5:19 - Storage
5:52 - MIDI
7:07 - Effects
7:59 - Pads
11:12 - Macros
13:14 - Recording Audio
14:22 - Sampling
15:48 - Organization
19:18 - Timing
20:48 - Finishing Tracks
22:58 - Extras
24:16 - Recap
Want to buy the Maschine Plus? (affiliate)
bit.ly/Buy-the-Maschine-Plus
-------
Get Pink Buddha merch here!
pinkbuddha.threadless.com/
Support my work:
www.buymeacoffee.com/pinkbuddha
Publish your music with DistroKid - get 7% off your first year’s membership with this link: distrokid.com/vip/pinkbuddha
Join my discord server - / discord
Music only YT channel - / @pinkbuddhamusic
Sample Pack channel -
bit.ly/Pink-Buddha-Sample-Pac...
Find me elsewhere:
Website: www.pinkbuddhamusic.com
Spotify: bit.ly/follow-me-on-spotify
Instagram: / pink.buddha.music
TikTok: / pink.buddha.music
Facebook: / pinkbuddhamusic
Soundcloud: / pink-buddha-music - Hudba
Check out my other channel just for Sample Packs - bit.ly/Pink-Buddha-Sample-Pack-Channel
TLDR: Stability and glitching/dropouts would have been a useful addition to the comparison. In my personal opinion and experience, Force is significantly better than Maschine+ for stability, processor power/memory, feature discoverability and back panel I/O build quality. At the moment, I own both devices, and only run Maschine+ in standalone mode.
STABILITY: Even with the latest firmware and highest quality SD card on Machine+, I still experience complete freezes/hard lockups (have to remove power to restart). From reviews, I was aware of this as a potential issue before I got the Maschine+, but I optimistically thought it would be a rare or non-issue. Nope. It crashes. Examining NI firmware update notes, they've been working on 'stability' for many updates. Force hardware and software has been rock solid for me, and the latest firmware update was epic - as mentioned, they added class compliant 32 channel digital IO, sample streaming and a new song arranger mode.
POWER: Maschine+ does allow you to stack as many fx on instruments or groups as you want, but in so doing it also allows you to create a project that the standalone processor can't actually handle. An overloaded Maschine+ processor means your music will contain dropouts/clicks/pops/glitches during playback. This is not rare - it's a common consideration if you include enough virtual instruments and runtime processed samples in your standalone project. I haven't hit this issue on Force, whether due to faster processing, optimized proprietary Akai plugins or just better protective software limits.
FEATURE DISCOVERABILITY: I do personally prefer Maschine's layout mode for song completion, but overall I found Maschine+ features much harder to learn and retain in standalone mode. Using Maschine software is relatively easy, almost everything is discoverable in menus or by clicking UI icons/buttons. You lose that in standalone mode however, and instead need to learn button, knob and shift combos to navigate to all features. If you take the time to build muscle memory, you can work very quickly. But there's no real fallback - if you forget how to do something, you'll be wandering around looking for a while - Maschine+ standalone UI is not a particularly helpful or consistent environment. Force does have a number of dedicated buttons as well, but critically, it also offers a simple, menu and icon-driven way to get to most functionality. If you need to do something on Force, you typically touch the icon or name of the thing you want to explore/edit. So for me, Force is easier to come back to after a break and get something musical done right away.
BUILD QUALITY: Build quality of the back panel I/O on Force is vastly better than on Maschine+. Maschine+ has 1/4" unbalanced inputs and outputs which appear to be surface mounted on an interior pcb, and just poke through a hole in the plastic back plate. Force has balanced TRS/XLR combi jacks screwed and bolted directly to a steel back plate, and the 1/4 jacks are also bolted to the back plate with nuts. Rugged and pro all the way. On the top panel, Maschine's 16 pads are excellent - I think better even than the MPC X. Force's 64 pads serve double duty to map to track clips, drum pads, key pads and/or macros, which I find very useful. I don't find I need an external keyboard when using Force to record chords or melody lines, whereas I use external keys on Maschine+.
Akai uses the same core software and exactly the same System On Chip main board for all their product lines (MPC / Force + all Inmusic products). It is why they gain a very good overall stability.
✌
Do you have a Maschine plus too???
But the management of the loaded material inside the RAM of the Force is horrible and a reason why its possible to lose complete projects!
The management, both, cpu and memory can show green! And if the space to process a task like "render all clips" , then it could be the whole project is away! Because it couldn't process all!
I believe I'm the one who had lost the most projects!
... this also can happen if you load a project which the pure data volume is enough to load, but then not enough to save it!
And this is true!
The biggest issue is the missing midi Implementation to use a Controller the right way! And the warping algorithm!
some points to correct,
1. you can hook any audio interface to maschine+, I use my Yamaha MODx and it actually also rout external and internal sounds from the Yamaha synth.
2. you can separate the metronome click to only output on headphones, just go to master channel output and set cue to ext3+4
3. you can record unbound arrangements outside of patterns and scene on machine using clips.
thanks for the video.
Cool cool - thanks for the corrections.
Hahahahaha Maschine Lover! I own one too, but not the Plus! lol
@@Pauluz_The_Web_Gnome actually just got mpc live 2 learning it and love it. Especially the battery and speaker. That changes everything thing for me.
couple things in case anyone is watching this now ( January 2023).
1) As of firmware 3.2.1 for the Force, you can now rearrange both tracks and effects. no more copy/delete hacks
2) While the Maschine+ plugins (Massive, Prism etc) sound really good, the lack of any sort of UI for the plugins themselves is baffling. Loopop called this out in his video as well, but the fact that you can't see what the plugins are actually changing is very very painful from a pure sound design perspective, and pretty much limits you to just tweaking presets. Furthermore, if you load a plugin without using a preset, good luck understanding what any of the controls do. The maschine+ is very clearly a port of something that expects a separate computer screen, and not designed from the ground up to be standalone.
Meanwhile on the Force, with the addition of the MPC plugin suite, you have legitimate UIs for the native plugins that are very intuitive to use.
3) Sample/file organization on the force is way better, as it has a proper file browser with search. you can copy over your sample folder and navigate it just like you would on a computer. On the Maschine+, again because it was not designed to be standalone from the beginning, the sample browsing is very limited, and you need a computer running the maschine software to properly tag samples so you can find them easier.
4) Ergonomics should be discussed. The screen placement on the Force is a bit cumbersome to use because the device is so long. Most people have their Forces mounted at an angle so that the screen is more naturally viewable/touchable. By comparison, the maschine+ is more compact and angled, so it is more ergonomic to work with both standing or sitting.
All good thoughts!
Great points! Greetings from a very happy Force jedi. I adressed 4) with a good stand. It's a beefy boy, but the features for price value is criminally good. Can't understand how some hipster toys (OP-1 Field **cough**) are double the price.
It's CZcams, so I avoid the comments, but here they have been INCREDIBLY helpful. Great job sparking a conversation. I keep thinking of getting rid of my Force, but then I find ANOTHER thing that it can do and it stays around. Seems like if you had both, you could sketch on the Maschine, fine tune on the Force, save the project and import into Ableton for the final touches.
Cool cool....that's the point.
Lol...and after all that you then print to vinyl, sample it, and start all over! 🤣🤣
Thank you for this great video. Well thought out and presented. Appreciate your work and what you do.
I appreciate that!
The tonnetz are imo the Force's most inventive performance feature. Yet it's so overlooked. Tonnetz let's anyone improvise chords that work together as long as you stick to linking neighboring pads(or the other pads that light up). I was shocked that no other device has this feature, not even Push2. It's so good!
I'll totally admit that I tend to just go for a keyboard, as that's my main ax and background. But interesting to hear from someone who really likes it.
Great comparison! However, you can simply mute pads on the Force the same way you can do it with Maschine pads. Just press and HOLD mute while selecting the pad(s) of your choice.
Thanks for the tip! I updated that in the description now. Still doesn't change my score for that section, but that's really good to know.
That doesn't work on mine and I'm using the 3.1.2 update... Only way to mute on the force is to select mute and press the bottom corresponding track button.
Also an other way is in the drum pad mixer when you press mixer while holding shift and you can route paga to sub mixes too
@@LunchBandit it works on mine.
Really needed this comparison Thanks a lot for this high quality video 🙏🏼
My pleasure!
This is a great comparison! Best I could find on YT. Thanks for posting! +1
My pleasure!
Quick correction: The Force and MPCs DO let you choose time signatures! It's clunky but you just have to tap "insert bars" and it'll let you choose anything, WITH numerators up to 32, which beats the 16 on Maschine. I prefer to delete all the bars or just scroll back to "start at bar: 1 finish at bar: 1" and THEN add your odd time signature bars. Clunky, but so useful
Where that "insert bars" option is located?
Great solid video content, great work helps to understand both machines
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks, exactly what I was looking for
Let's go! Curious what your thoughts will be when you watch this!
This was Great comparison.
Great Video
🍟🍟🍟
Very useful info. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks a lot for this comparison. I own a Force and and MK3 so I cannot tell if the M+ is more buggy than the Force. But I noticed that I compose tracks faster with the Maschine. The Force has some incredible built in synths with very huge and deep basses. I use them both with Bitwig (thanks to the DrivenbyMoss addon) and it's a pure joy
Maschine was buggier, until I did the latest update. Now they are about the same for me. But that's not everyone's experience.
Great video, thanks a lot!
Glad you liked it!
Thanks for this in depth analysis.
I’m a Ableton Live user since 2010.
After a couple of EPs and some remixes released, I took three sabbatical years from making music but now I’m felling it is time for a fresh start. I’m a brand and digital designer in my daytime job so I’m looking for a standalone machine that lets me stay away from my Mac when making music.
I’m really undecided between Maschine+ and Akai Force.
I’ve never used Maschine software but i really really like the design of the hardware and the workflow for putting down new ideas (for what I could see watching CZcams videos).
On the other hand, the Ableton Live like workflow of the Force (clip and scenes) and the fact that you can export projects from the Force to Ableton Live would makes me feel more in my comfort zone with this machine. But I’ve tried the MPC software with a MPK Mini MK3 and its workflow was like a nightmare to me. And for what I could understand the MPC like workflow of the Akai Force should be the same.
I don’t really rely on super cool software synths for my music production (I use them only for pad textures and bass lines) and what I really care is the slicing/chopping samples ease and speed.
Last thing, I don’t pretend to finalize the arrangements on a standalone groovebox. I’d make the final mix (with effects and automations) in Ableton Live in any case. So the ease/speed/fun in putting down patterns and in exporting stems to the computer daw are the priorities to me.
So, what machine would you recommend me for my music production needs, Maschine+ or Akai Force?
Thank you in advance!
Hmm....that's a tough one. If you're already really familiar with Ableton - you are going to take to the Force very quickly. It's almost just like Ableton's workflow. But the Maschine has a much better sampler and process for chopping samples. Well, I don't know if it's "better" - but certainly faster, and more focused on that. So that's a tough call! haha - hope that helps.
buy an ipad and beatmaker 3, that's the better choice. and a few au instruments..
Great Video!
🎂🎂🎂
Nice video !!
✌️😎
Ease of use: Force +1... Instrument quality: Mascine +1... Stability: Force +5... Force wins... 🙂
😂
Nice, looking forward to your thoughts. Assuming you're comparing Force to M+, I give Force the win. Maschine+ has so much potential, I feel like the mk2 if we ever get one will be the box to beat
We'll have to see what you think when you get to the end!
Thankyou for doing this, it was really interesting. Used both. I'm not sure if it was me but I couldn't get on with maschine workflow. I'm using force now and prefer it but I'm more experienced. Maschine has probably better synths with massive X. But the idea/song mode structure never worked for me. Akais version feels a lot more natural but still a bolt on. When NI brought clips out it felt they could've reworked quite a bit. But my main thing is the screens on maschine often feel like dead weight, I need to remember which ones come up when, they needed to step up a bit when standalone came out. The screen on the force and applied design and thought put into it really greases wheels for me. I think we're really lucky to have such great options but my natural preference is toward the force.
Good points you make here!
I want that Vader shirt so bad. Also Great Video it was super awesome!!!
You can have your own! Get it here: pinkbuddha.threadless.com/
I've been waiting for this video for looooong rime. I can't believe nobody has done it before. I ended up buying both and I can agree with almost everything you said. I feel the sound or quality of the virtual synths on the M+ are better. Also, when in chord mode on the Force, I don't know what I am playing, instead of the M+ I shows exactly what chord/,note I am.playing. last but not least. The M+ is SUPER buggy. It crashes quite often and it is super frustrating.
cool cool - good points here.
Lets hope for the Maschine plus update coming this month, promised stability upgrades with auto save
Great breakdown. You’re the only guy doing these in-depth, specific comparisons. Big ups brother. One small point on the last round: You can also connect Force to Ableton Link with an Ethernet cable. Maybe not as convenient as with USB, but still can be better lag-wise. It is strange on both sides, that Akai chose not to give the Force compatibility with MPC software, and NI chose to hold M+ back from using in Ableton. Loved the video!
Yes - good point. But it's still weird that it's only Ethernet or wifi. Why not USB? Cause you usually only have one ethernet plug on a computer, and I use that for my internet. So it's just a limitation that just feels unnecessary.
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy absolutely
I really appreciate this video👍
I have a quick question. I own a bunch of Komplete software and a Maschine studio. I’m really considering buying the Force after your video, but the only thing holding me back is my past projects on Maschine. Is there any benefit about getting the + for the portability aspect outside Maschine? Would I have to manually sample each plugging that isn’t on the + or is there something that would compensate for this?
Also,14:00 is it possible to input usb audio from a external device on the + or Force? For instance, if I want to use the audio interface on the OP-1 Field, Op-z or Roland Aira?
Yeah...you're always going to struggle to get legacy songs onto a new platform, whichever way that happens. My solution is just to move on, and write new pieces. Cause what else can you do sometimes?
You can only use a "class compliant" interface. So basically just dedicated interfaces.
One big distinction in the distribution of your scores, the Force had the edge on almost all of the head-to-head match ups in hardware sections. I weigh that heavily because those cannot be changed. Contrast this with the other points in the workflow section. Technically, firmware updates can address some of these. Not saying it's easy, or if Akai will/should work on those, but technically they could. For the time signature option, Akai definitely dropped the ball there, but seems to me it'd be easy to implement a change or clever workaround in the next firmware release.
Lol...my scoring system is totally shallow and honestly quite arbitrary. Didn't account for any weight to specific areas (as you noted). Like how every section just counts for one point. I just used the streetfighter matchup as a more entertaining (and comment inducing) format.
I'm really hoping people find it useful to look at the comparisons being made and decide for themselves what's important.
Eduardo, according to another poster, above (Leo): "The Force and MPCs DO let you choose time signatures! It's clunky but you just have to tap "insert bars" and it'll let you choose anything, WITH numerators up to 32, which beats the 16 on Maschine. I prefer to delete all the bars or just scroll back to "start at bar: 1 finish at bar: 1" and THEN add your odd time signature bars. "
Personally, I wouldn't give a '+' for something that a standalone can do when hooked up to a computer. I bought the Force because I didn't want to use the computer. I think you've got the bug-bears of the Force pretty well though. If Akai sorted out some of these obvious weaknesses, it really would be a DAW replacement (limitations accepted). I hope the next update fixes things like time signature and moving tracks, which are my biggest annoyances. That said, in it's current state, it has enabled me to not use the computer for music creation, arranging and mixing. I'm using it predominantly to sequence and record my hardware synths and drum machines. You didn't mention the envelope follower or step sequencer - I don't know if machine+ has anything similar, but these are really powerful modulation sources. So much to cover, seems like you did a pretty good job to me - well done!
lol...I mean, this video is already nearly 25 min long. No one wants to sit through an hour of full comparisons. You bring up a good point about the envelope follower. Could have included that. I guess the only thing I disagree with you about here, is that I personally would prefer something that could flow between computer and stand alone. Elektron does an excellent job of that - you can certainly do it standalone, but if you really want to dig into the sound design (or controls), you can always connect with a computer to use a larger screen/format to fine tune things, then pop out. And I really like that with the Maschine. I'm a long-time Ableton user, and if Ableton ever came out with a standalone Push....I'd be ALL OVER THAT.
But you know, everyone's got their own personal preference. I ultimately want to perform without a computer, but I do want to use a computer to finish tracks and program.
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy Fair point. I use the computer for final processing - I'm happy to export the stems, but I'm just a hobbyist - I can see that more serious musicians need better syncing between the device and the DAW.
Former MC707 owner, now Force. And very happy. It seemed a bit unpolished at first, but 3.0.5 (Arranger), 3.0.6 (Drum Synth), 3.1 (Disk streaming + synths) and 3.2 (even more synths) helped a LOT and the more I read in forums and on reddit, the more often I see "Force is currently the most powerful all-in-one box" and I think this is right. You pay with a beefy hardware, which is not really portable, but you get a LOT in return. Plus the price is really fair. Products with less features cost either the same (707, Elektron, Deluge) or even far more (OP-1 Field).
It's definitely been consistently improving!
Hey man, great video comparing both devices! I was just watching a part where you mentioned that Maschine+ can do MIDI learn. I haven't figured out how to do it in standalone mode and I'm having trouble finding information on it. Is there any way you could send me a link or provide an explanation? I would be super grateful since some of my MIDI devices are confusing with CC messages, and the ability to learn on the Maschine+ would make things much simpler for my setups. Thanks in advance!
Great video .. I have both and love them both. I love the sequencing on the force and I love the pads and sounds on the Maschine. Can you control the maschine with the force?? I didn't see a way to control more than one track at a time with the force. Any other ideas on how to use them together?? thanks!
If I ever use them together, I would imagine just using the Force as the main brain - as it's got such a great interface for controlling the flow of the whole song. But then use the Maschine to play stuff live - cause those pads are gold. You could certainly have the Force play certain sounds on the Maschine, through MIDI tracks, as well.
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy Thanks for the reply. I guess neither has a multitimbral mode, so either could only control one track of the other, but I guess you could record an audio drum loop on force finger drumming on the maschine, that would be cool. I do agree, the maschine pads area on a different level, very sensitive. not like a MPC with hard pads.. rock on!
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy I did some digging through the maschine manual and section 13.1.2 tells how to set a midi channel for a maschine group/kit. Then you can obviously assign a channel and sequence from the akai force. So while maschine+ doesn't have a "multitimbral" mode, you can assign each group to a different channel and sequence multiple maschine groups from the force. Just figured it out so I thought I would pass it along, I previously thought you could only control the active maschine group. Cheers.
Being an Ableton user, I still lean towards getting a Push 2. Its really the only thing that I am missing. Knowing that you switched from Push 2 to the Force, a couple years back, what would take me over the top to it vs Push? I've always loved the Maschine MK3 workflow and also own an S49, so the screens, knobs and packs are familiar world to me. The struggle, of course, is moving over that wonderful Maschine stuff back into my DAW, which is a royal PITA.
oh - you mean, getting the sounds/tracks into another DAW other than Maschine?
Hi, really like your video. I am considering buying a force or live2, I watched your previous video about those two machines. But I also have something to consider is that I got a sp404mk2, I was wondering that wich one can work better with sp404m2 if you know, your feed back will be very usefull
Are you just wanting to use the sp404 for the effects? If so, then either of these would work fine to run straight into the sp404 for the finishing touches.
This video is so nice, I watched it all the way to the end even though I’m not even considering buying one of these units. I would love to have the force but I need something more portable. Btw. isn’t it weird that NI has all these amazing synths but on the Maschine, you don’t have a proper synth yet you can use to come up with sounds? Correct me if I’m wrong but so far I think you only have basic controls like cut-off, envelope etc.. Thanks for the video!
✌️✌️✌️ glad you liked it
Yeah...the NI controls for synths are pretty basic when in standalone mode.
Hi Jonathan. On the Akai force I’ve found that when recording guitar to a clip I get a click or glitch sound at the start of the loop. I don’t get this same glitch sound on my MPC one. This topic has been discussed extensively on the Force Facebook page so I’m not alone. Apparently the Force does not have the auto fade that most loopers and the MPCs have which is a huge oversight by Akai. There’s a workaround by adding in a fade manually but adding it to every auto clip kills the workflow, any thoughts or ideas on this? Thanks
Ugh...yeah, that's an issue and like you said - you'd have to do that manually for each one
How to record guitar into MPC one since it has no inst input
You're able to use Komplete Audio interfaces with Maschine+ to also expand the audio interfaces available for Maschine. Just FYI.
Ah - gotcha. Good point.
Hi, I tried finding an answer to this question but you seem like the person who will actually know :) Can a Force create forever changing midi note patterns by using the envelope follower (lfo)? It seems like the env follower can only affects filters. Ordered a Force but still having some doubts even after the most recent update. Thanks and love your channel !
Yeah...it can't control notes. I wish it could control the loop points in a clip. Cause then you could have a long clip and move the loop part around via an LFO or envelope.
And thanks!
Re: headphones, I quite like the fact that the headphone output is on the back of the maschine. One if my main issues with the SP404 MK2 is that the headphone port is on the front, and i like to sit with it on my lap, with my knees up a lot of the time when im not in the studio. That means that the headphone cable is always digging into you waist and it sits at and angle.
Lol...to each their own!
Great!
✌️✌️✌️
you can mute pads on the force when you go to Note mode, then press the mute button and press a pad! just found out about this yesterday
and you can also assign macros more easily by sliding down the menu from the top, there's a learn button there.
Liked the mute button at the bottom of the force? So you have to be on mute, and not record?
Yes....good point, but it's still more cumbersome than the machine. But it's also deeper, so that makes sense that it takes longer. That's not a huge negative, to me though.
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy yeah exactly! I found it a little strange too because I thought those buttons on the bottom left are only for the slim bottom row buttons, but in note mode they actually work on the pads.
but yeah about the macros, you're right it's still a little longer as it seems. and if you assigned something to the crossfader, and then you want to assign something else to a macro, then it won't work because you still have crossfader selected in the macro menu, so you have to go there first and switch over before the quick learn button works again 😅
Hmmm....that's so interesting. Akai sure buried a lot of things in really deep. Which....is good. But really hard to uncover. Like this for example.
How about how well each device does time stretching loops? I’m looking for a good Ableton Live alternative, but also like the MPC style/workflow. So I am conflicted on which would be best for me.
there is a video comparission on youtube .. maschine + seems to be much better . also, when you change tempo real time (even just one bpm) you hear glitches on force. let me know if you have found some more info about this topic
lol...maybe just get the new Push 3? Then you don't have to find an alternative. Basically, no one compares to Ableton's time warping. It's phenomenal.
Very informative but you missed the clips feature in Maschine’s song mode, which appears more powerful than the Force’s arranger.
I'm not sure I'd say it's more powerful - but it's certainly a different strategy. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Thanks, great comparison. Maschine has clips which can be used go record audio or automization over a song as arranger in Force. Maschine has extensive IO and can be used with the Tascam 12/16 for example. I have both and prefer Machine, although not by much. Audio content is also much better on M+.
👍👍
Force has 32 I/O using external mixer, maschine can do only 4 stereo inputs & 8 stereo outputs
How many inputs from the Tascams can you see on the Machine?. I’m reading here it’s only 4…
I think the emotional connection is what many looks for, what makes me creative and love the tools I use, I would like to understand better how you can use the Jam with the Maschine and if you know if the integration with Abelton will happen? I cannot understand why it shouldn't work as you can use it with your computer and even with Logic??
That's absolutely true - the emotional connection is not something that you can really "compare." It's so personal. Have no idea about Ableton. It's just strange that the plus can't do it, but the other maschine devices can.
In my research I've found that Akai Force seems to be best with FL Studio, Logic Pro, Ableton and Garageband. Maschine Plus seems more geared towards using the NI Komplete software or just about any DAW. At the end of the day it's about what works best for YOU. Whatever hardware + software fits your workflow/sequencing/arranging best is the one you should use. Don't listen to those who try and steer you in one direction. Try them all out, watch videos, educate yourself & go from there. The best decisions are informed decisions.
Pink! Your comparison was dead on. If I was a standalone Guy. I would not know which one to purchase. They both seem 👌 Great. It is nice to have options. But Standalone is just not for me. I enjoy your videos tutorial's😎💙💜💚❤
Thanks for commenting!
There's some interesting stuff here given that I have both a Machine Studio and a Force, mostly because of the discussion of features rather than the "battle" style comparison.
I'm trying to figure out how you get those 16 pad macros on the launch and note combo page atm. I was not aware of this possibility and that is awesome.
Maschine is nice software. I'm not sure why I would want a hardware version- probably not for the reasons others do. Lower latency and less crashes were the reasons I got interested in the Force, as well as it being a a self contained instrument. It is ending up with mostly fails with those first two major reasons, but the macros and Ableton integration (when sitting beside a push rather than replacing it) are turning out to be great. The macros seem to need some improvements in terms of sequencing external gear IMO although I haven't gotten all the way through all of the possibilities yet with regards to that so we'll see- maybe they are even more useful for that than I think. And yes, I agree that the MIDI control of the Force itself is in need of major improvements as well.
Reading another comment here on how Maschine+ is even worse with regards to crashes, etc. just reminds me that I have to mention that a used $150 Push 1 and a cheap used laptop that you probably already have is going to blow away both of these set-ups, when considering Ableton and M4L, IMO.
Thank you again for the best Force channel, with a mention to nicethings who when I can understand what he's talking about has some great videos too. (A British/American language barrier plays a role here no doubt lol)
lol...yeah, the "battle" part is just a gimmick to make the video more fun. It's not really the point, as to *really* do a battle, you'd have to give each category certain weight. And each person would disagree about how much weight to give each feature. But nice to see that you "get it" - and realize this is more of a feature comparison (vs. competition).
I'm a huge Ableton fan - and think it blows everything out of the water. But I really do hate using a laptop for performance. It just doesn't feel right - like it's not really an instrument. But that's just my bias.
Glad you're enjoying the channel!
as a maschine studio owner and maschine+, I can tell you that if you have the space on your desk and always working on your desk next to your computer there is no actual reason to get the plus.it is nice to hook the plus to a battery and sit somewhere to work on music away from your computer, but in the year of owning it, I have done this maybe once. if you have a laptop then no need for a battery and you can do that with the studio.
The maschine+ had the option to expand its audio when it dropped in 2020. It was overly buggy during launch and that feature was overshadowed.
✌
Just fyi, I think a better comparison would be the Live 1 & 2 / One / X to the Maschine+, these are more compatible units. The Force is more of a clip based sequencer from what I can tell (I personally have a Live 1 & 2, which I connect together).
You aren't incorrect. But I still wanted to do this comparison.
Can you do the Force vs The MPC key 61 sometime?
I could but they are so different. If someone isn't really a keys player, the mpc key 61 is overkill
Im just trying Force rn and after update 3.3 it's still crashing due to corrupted files or storage, now i tried Mocba repair and the unit works better and didn't crashed for now. Aspects I'm missing here is stability (is force or masch+ useful for live performance) and customer support where Akai sucks, don't know how its going with NI. In my opinion on Force is that I would be scared to use it for live performance on stage due to crashes so is a Force just a HUUUGE and expensive jamming toy?
😱😭
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy no crashes since then...mocba rules
If youre in note mode on the force set your preference in preferences that disables track select so you dont accidentally select a new track.
Yes...but that means you can't select tracks either. So it's a trade off.
You can mute pads in pad mixer every pads has a dedicated channel where you can solo or mute
Yes....but that's not really convenient in like a performance. Like to do it "on the fly.". Imagine that this will not be captured into the arranger either.
On Maschine you also got Variation mode, it could be counted to quantisation I guess ;)
The force has variations too. So I didn't mention it as they are both pretty similar. I was trying to note significant differences
Quite comprehensive
✌️✌️✌️
Realy nice comparison !!! but you didn‘t compare the most important feature…… finding the right sound. It‘s so easy with the structured way of Maschine Plus and you can favorite your best ones… I hate this endless search on the Akai side. But there is also a major problem on the Maschine Plus side…… unstable and low performance…. I hate that one wrong move on the Maschine Plus which let everything sounds distorted until saving and restarting.
All good points you make here!
The thumbnail shows a Maschine MK3 though ;)
🤣🤣🤣
All the Maschine plus pics I found didn't have the right lighting/angle. You weren't supposed to notice this!
I’ll create my arrangement in the force and transfer to fl studios for mastering. But will do the mixing with the force
Nice!
Do we have one with maschine vs push 2 or 3 ?
Planning it out right now!
I think you should have mentioned you can also put effects on returns and easily route tracks there giving you much more than 4 effects. If you are you going to compare these devices then either compare them both standalone or with computer if want more accurate comparison.
Yes...the force will do that a bit. But it's just adding 4 more. You can do far more in the maschine. And....while it's in standalone.
So buy both & have them in your studio 😁👍
Lol...done
Actually 8 CV outputs using a TRS Y-cable.
Have Force kinda want Maschine Plus as a Sound Module standalone Massive, Monark, FM8 and that new Prophet plugin are compelling but I’d be hunting a used one for that purpose. It’s how I used my Roland MC-101 as well……. Where’s Roland’s Integra 8????? Hehehe
It's perry fun to play on. Really different from the force.
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy thanks man think I’m going to hunt a used one down. Love Komplete 13 but nothing like Hardware ;) would love to see a video on transferring Patches from Komplete 13 to the Plus
Maschine is not able to send Program Changes to an external MIDI Device without really bad and unprecise workarounds, that won’t work if you want to switch sounds in one song. Only way to do that correctly is when connected to a PC and even than it’s a nightmare. For everyone who is using external hardware (synths and effects) and wants to load presets automatically or want to change them during a song, there is no way to have this working on Maschine :(
Thanks for commenting and sharing this.
I’m coming to this content a bit late, but yeah, that’s a huge oversight! IMO any professional level controller that supports MIDI should support MIDI program changes. Hopefully it’s been addressed with a firmware update by now.
Force doesn’t snt have realtime quantization?
No. But you can set the quantization to be applied automatically (That's actually the default)
For me the machine mk3 has been boxed up since I started using the force. Great to get away from the pc for making beats with a very large SSD inside the force. NI kind of peed me off as they didn't provide U2B for Apple silicon so it clashed with all my native Logic Pro plugin setup. Never bothered looking at + because of this.
Getting away from the computer can feel great.
You forgot the fact that the maschine has standalone access to most Native Instruments plugins while the force has only air instruments, which are pretty limited in my opinion. I wish i had Massive or FM8 in the Force.
Must admit having Force and an MK3 I'm not quite seeing the internal synths a limiting as you may .. feel like I use them differently .. MK3 a bit like a daw expansion and Force for all my HW integration and some arrangement when I need to get away from the mouse
@@synkuk yeah but i like making sick wubs m8. I'm not seing a convenient way to make a distorted sine harmonic bass or a higly modulated Reese bass, or an FM growl.
@@synkuk the only thing the force is lacking is a better selection of oscilator shapes in Hype, custom wavetables, and a few improvements to Diode Clipper. Bass music sound design follows easy to replicate synthesis techniques and in the force they're all hard to do and you would need to stack the entire effects slots in a channel AND also in a submix. Using the submix as just an extension for more effects. And at that point the force is already loaded and you cant do anything else. Good thing resampling in the Force is as smooth as butter.
@@Mamadordeculosprofesional Ah.. I see .. I'm seeing it in the context of the gear I already have .. and what it brings to my setup which is primarily sequencing , recording and effects routing for drums , samples & outboard gear .. and also some fun with the internal plugins ..
@@synkuk thankfully all my problems will be solved once i get a Blofeld. I can definitely do all that with one of those. Just 400 bucks!
One thing u haven’t scored on is hope. Where are these machines going? Is the company listening? Are there going to be future updates? Are the problems being addressed? Are their uses in real world scenarios being utilised by professional musicians. Eg I’ve read loads about how the looper on the Force clicks, making it useless in live situations.
Also Mentioning plugging in mics to any Force user will make them wince with risk of blowing up the unit.
Lastly a question id love a comparison on is imagine your given these with no experience of making music … which one is more likely to get you making your own music faster… ? I know from experience The Force is overwhelming and confusing to start off with… and honestly I’m still confused by it. I don’t know with Machine.
Sure you can do loads with the fmForce … if you manage to work out what the hell magic combination of button presses you need.
Think this is an important question just stand a novice in front of both would be fascinated to see result.
Yes - good points. Hope is harder to quantify, and certainly very subjective as well. My whole point of a "face-off" is just for fun and induce more comments, honestly.
My honest take is that -
1. The Force has more potential in it's hardware (except for I crave having better pads to play on - but you could always just hook up an external midi controller with better pads to do that). But the Force design seems to have severe blind spots in how the designed this. Almost like they don't actually make music themselves, and they never asked musicians. Like only having 4/4 time, and not being able to move around effects and tracks, and not being able to send a submix to another submix. And how MIDI learn works right now.
2. Maschine is a bit more limited as a piece of hardware, but feel like Native has a stronger sense for workflow and making things straightforward and simple (except for the one point I made about directing audio to a different pad or track - that was just weird how it works now). And I'm newer to Maschine, so haven't really seen more of that history.
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy just came back to rewatch this video - thank you for taking time with your full reply. What is great about is it gives me an over view of the force when I come back to it after a while x
Maschine+ has 32 usb audio I/O as well
Thanks for sharing!
Since when
@@sisonkemanentsa5153 the last two updates have had it. It’s not as solid over multiple platforms compared to MPC’s yet, but the last update ironed out the issues to do with the occasional clicks, and having to reset the interface to fix it,
I have both but in the end I always end up using Ableton with Push and mouse/keyboard. They both suffer from the same problem - the hardware is insanely good but the software is super clunky (less so on the Force but still a lot clunkier than Ableton).
You mean the software for standalone mode?
You can move things around on the force delete that effect add different one add that same effect you deleted to a different spot
Lol...that is not "move things around"
Pity there’s no comparison on sounds and instruments on board.
lol....I could have, but then the video would be like 2 hours!
And you can mute every sound in drum programs in the Force!
Yes....learned that now. Not sure why they never mentioned that in the manual!
You can mute the different pads in the drum tracks on the force. I would tell you but you have had the foece for years, and you know it better than me. 😂 The Akai Force is unicorn and can’t be matched up against other standalone devices. The Mpc and maschine plus would be a better match up.
Believe it or not, I didn't know about the pad mute. That mute button looks like it's just to control the selection at the bottom. Never thought to try and push it to mute a pad in note mode. The force is frustratingly weird like that - in that it has ask these buried commands
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy you can make the pad macro to be your mutes as well. It’s easier. Try it out and if it works, then share it with the force community.
Thats not really burried tho. Its pretty obvious considering its called mute mode and is a toggle, not a shift button. No disrespect, but a few things in this vid are wrong. You can route a track into another audio track and have more effect slots. Thats one example where you’re technically. wrong.
@@maceoplex I just got the Force and cannot find a way to route a track to another audio track. This would be great to have.
So basically, get both units. Got it. :)
🤣🤣✌️
Using Machine+ in computer mode kind of defeats the purpose of having an all-in-one hardware isn't it?
lol....No! Because ideally, you can go back and forth. For deeper editing, and finishing up tracks, it's going to be way easier to use the computer. Esp if you're using third party VST's or plugins (which you can't access in standalone).
You can mute pads on force 😉
Lol...I learned that after this. that wasn't available when it came out, and I guess I missed when that feature was added
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy I think it was always available but its one of those things you discover by accident..... wasn't mentioned in update. Its just a fluke I found, odd when mpc has whole screen dedicated to it lol. Had both since first released 😉
Very good comparison. One point however : the Force "computer mode" is the Ableton mode (!)...So theoritecally, you also have "infinite" effects...The advantage of these machines is mainly the standalone mode. The comparison should be made only on this mode of use.
Lol...I disagree, as you're really just using Ableton then. And the force is just a midi controller (like the push...but not nearly as effective)
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy Exactly as Maschine in computer mode...becoming a surface controller. NI is selling us the standalone mode, while they were until now absolutely not on this. This is what you should be evaluating first. My very subjective opinion !!
I have a totally different pros and cons. Lol. The synths for me are way better sounding on the m+ but the UI is better on the synths on the force. The m+ is a cpu hog and it’s easy to clip.
Oh yeah...the ui on the force synths is really good. I kind of hate how the maschine has almost zero visual feedback for any effects or synths.
It miss a chapter about synthesis
You mean, like the synth plugins?
Maschine+ is a DAW controller that has the option to be standalone. Force is a standalone that has the option to be a DAW controller.
Maschine has always been a controller, until the + came out. Force/MPC have been standalone for decades. Force is in another league IMO. Not to say Maschine is bad, they're just playing different games.
Well...that's true. They are different. I'm just making it a competition for fun, not that are seriously to have a face off comparison like this
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy agreed :)
Let me guess……the force wins?? The force always wins!! Bwahaha long live the force!!!
Edit: was a tie!! I was actually looking at the machine before going with the force. Bummed about some of the missing features but still has a lot going for it.
😂🌶😂
Maschine.. the sound!
✌️
Force has also some really good synths, like Odyssey and Hype (free), OPX4, Mini-D and Fabric (paid but sometimes really cheap on sale). I strongly doubt the difference is that noticable, if at all.
@@BlueHawk80 well when i hear standalone i dont want even the wifi connection for synths..
Yes i agree force sounds ok but machine better sounding. Stock vs stock. On process true everything the same.
@@moralrevulsionLive whatever.
Do you know that using Midi controllers in the Force isn't possible the right way? The necessary midi implementation to send the values if you load a project! Because this a mapped parameter isn't derected by the controllers and they jump to 0 ( for example the range of this parameter is from 0-127 )! Also there is no RGB supported!
And the warping is horrible too! And its very buggy, with the updates they didn't fix fundamental issues! And the performance is not good because to much updates
Because the headphone jack, if you put it ton another angle its a problem because this!
Best regards, Klaus
It definitely still needs work!
Wish Akai Force was Blanka… he was my favorite
🤣🤣🤣
Sadly the Force is the clear stand alone winner. I liked Maschine better but needed the force to make complete songs. The Force is the winner if you want to work without a computer. You didn't mention audio quality and bugs. The force has bugs that are un explainable but the quality of the sound is very good. I have produced a whole album WITHOUT a computer using the force and it sounds better then most of what I hear out there.
✌️
hei , you forgot most important thing and that is sound comparison of those two devices by using same sample and same level .
These days, all such devices have really good audio conversion systems. So if you're comparing the exact sounds coming from both, you aren't going to be able to tell the difference. That's why I didn't focus on that.
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy thanks for your answer , i like your videos and sharing thoughts , you a very cool person and good information provider , but i will have to disagree on this one about sound comparisons ,
in theory should be like you say and i wish it was like that , but in practice is different story and i also know why it is different story .
plus , sound technology is about sound , so even 10 seconds of sound which talks for itself is widely better value than 60 minutes of advertising human speech about it . Because sure on software level devices can do a lot and appear to be same , but that all doesnt have a value if in the end it doesnt sound good .
In professional engineering world ( salesmans and advertisers do not belong there ) , sound is what is all about and sound speaks for itself , nobodys opinion and advertising speech can be more precise and above that .
However , my level of experience in sound research science is detecting those smallest differences , i do detect differences and i have noticed that very often those small unnoticable differences make huge difference . Real question is , why those differences are there when they shouldnt be there as you suggest .
For example , check this video example : czcams.com/video/AqjcmkPvIG4/video.html
in that video example i notice small difference but huge difference which matters to me between Maschine Plus and Mpc One , i dont wanna say that Maschine Plus is bad unit ( i like really Maschine software and Mk1 and now have Mk3 version which i like too , including really enjoying workflow with my Akai Force too ) , but Maschine plus in that video link example sounded like its frequency spectrum bandwidth is more corrupted like a elephant in matchbox and its squeezed by electronic design vacuum or lower quality components and thats why its frequemcy harmonics are more distorted electracoustically , it seems that Maschine Plus processor there is also more struggling in calculation , while MPC One in that test sounded much cleaner , frequency amplitude stability is wider and there is more articulation and precision in its processor performance . With each different units of same is different test result case but with that video example units that is the case .
I also found and know that each different unit of each same model will give different results at tests , and that means that working people are in a shops paying the same price for a same products but those same products actually are not same products or maybe not having same components and are not providing same results when measured , and then when you find and detect that , that is when you as research scientist or engineer have proper observation resolution and realize beginning of another story which absolutely questions level of morality , good intention , scale of technology corruption and politically criminogene leadership of global industrial revolution .
Machine is a complete failure as a standalone unit, I don’t know how you ended up with a tie. Several errors in your video also. The force complete any VST through everything like the controller mode with the other so that’s an on point. there are more than four Plug-ins for track because there are sends & sub mixes And more than you with a minimum of 12. The stability of maschine plus is horrendous and literally so bad it’s unusable at all in professional setting. Didn’t cover the latency of Akai being the best in the entire Audio world. Machine plus is One of the worst. And on and on. They’re not even in the same league. Akai is for real musicians engineers producers. Look at the names in the studios that use them. Machine plus has Britney Spears that’s it.
well - my scoring system is a complete joke. It's unweighted, and extremely subjective. I admittedly only used this "face-off" format for entertainment purposes, and to induce more comments/engagement. It'd be silly to give "headphones" the same weight as other points.
But regardless, you make some good points here too. The stability on my Maschine has been good since the newer update for that.
Per the effects slots - yes, you are correct. But that's kind of more of a workaround, imo. Because that significantly narrows how you might, or could use the Submix tracks. For example - I think that gain staging is a real pain and problem on the Force. Everything is automatically so loud, that it's super easy to just max out your Master track. Blows out a Maximizer if you put that on the master. And it's a big pain to pull down all the tracks, individually, but keep your balances the same. Would work great to run into a submix first, so that I could then just use one slider to pull down everything at the same time. But if I do that, then I'm narrowing how I can apply affects there. I personally prefer to use lots of effects, but just to small degrees - and also to have lots of "standby" with macros to turn on and off. So I'm often running into effects limits, even with submixes and the master.
Regardless, this is just my HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE scoring. I wholly expect people will look at the comparisons and make their own decisions about which are important to them. That's the point of this, to simply point out differences. Scoring is arbitrary and just for fun!
Isn't a pad a track so it's like eight layers right in front of you
On the maschine.....? Yes.
On the force. eight plus to a track. audio, midi and drum kit patterns.
Fx good on the Akai? Really, they are not bad, and you have lots of choice but the quality does not compare…just listen to the difference between say the reverb or transient or EQ sweep.
Lol..."Good" is certainly a relative term. To me that means "passable"
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy I like how on the AKAI you can creatively stack four effects together to make one complex effect and then save it as a preset. But the M+ comes with loads of great sounding complex presets for single fx instances, easy, but not so unique.
Actually now that i watch this again. This isnt a good comparison nor review
you left out an insane amount of stuff the force can do that the Maschine+ cant do
Lol...maybe watch it a third time? 😜
Feel free to leave your thoughts here. This is open to discussion
Weirdo the Akai has more buttons so its better....
🤣🤣🤣
If is draw buy machine cause is cheaper
mmmm.....that's a bit arguable. If you mean - a maschine controller, then yes. If you're talking about the Maschine Plus, you can find used Akai Force for cheaper than Maschine Plus.
What happened to you hair?
Lol...meaning?
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy Yes... Is it part of your Show?
It has a life of its own ✌️😎
Strange that almost all upsides of Maschine over force are features available on regular MPC. Really strange that Akai didn’t port it over
Lol...I know. The Force is a weird beast
I think you’re digging deep to always finds things to tie the force and penalize hard on the maschine.
Lol...well my scoring system is more of a joke, than it being scientific. I hope it's still helpful to compare the two.
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy Never thought about the maschine + until.. I started the iOS beatmaking rabbit hole, then I heard about the push 3, wow then Akai Force. If you pair maschine + with a launchpad X. What would be the ideal price/features/flexibility for a stand alone setup for instrumentalist/performers/singers that don't use live or maschine. Include the price of the Ipad of course. It's interesting food for thought.
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy I guessed so, great video!
Maschine is overpriced definitely.
It ain't cheap!
this is a biased review in favor of Force ...... the main difference between the 2 devices is that, one of them is a hands on hardware device, while the other one is an ipad with some extra buttons
lol...and is the Force the ipad?
I knew you was going to tie half way through… definitely not a tie but you definitely made it so as maybe you need a few freebies in the future so keeping both sweet.
So you your video gets no like and I doubt on that basis I’ll watch you again…
🤣🤣
The scoring is all in jest and fun. It's not ever realistic to say all these get the same weight.
So which do you think wins.....?
Machine plus ain't noOooO heavyweight Sorry boSS
🤣🤣🤣
@@PinkBuddhaAcademy BlesSsingZZz..