Your review and going through the first steps is really very well done and detailed. But new tools are always great ... after a few months, sometimes it looks different and frustration or disappointment spreads in some aspects that you did not see in the beginning. It would be really nice and helpful to get another video with some distance from the honeymoon. Thanks in advance for that!
Many thanks for this video! It just so happens that I'm taking delivery of a YY1 today. Your video has provided a wealth of practical information and has boosted my confidence that I made a good decision to purchase the YY1.
@@betztechnikindustriesltd.8901 The YY1 arrived and there was some shipping damage to the bottom camera display, which prevents me from doing bottom camera calibration. Neoden USA instantaneously responded to my email about this (in the evening!) and had a replacement display panel ordered within the hour. I was still able to get the demo PCB placement working, with good results. I also used the tape extenders for mounting in the feeders. I found that you need to be careful and not have any of the adhesive on the extender exposed, otherwise the tape will get wound up in the gears that pull the tape cover.
@@infinitemachinery7409 Well that sounds like the best result of an unfortunate situation! I just ran into that adhesive issue today, definitely a thing, haha.
Hi,my dear friend from Betz Technik Industries Ltd.,thank you for choosing of our NeoDen YY1 Pick and Place machine and nice sharing video.--tonny-neoden
Glad you are able to share your experience with the yy1. I have been considering it, but concerned about the tape cover winders and the single fiducial alignment. I am just south of you in Kamloops!
It’s not perfect but it’s been working well for us. The QFP 24 processors usually need a slight bump with the tweezer to align but the other parts are usually no issue at all.
Hello, I think you missed to program to place at 5th position for 0201 you can count that there are 10 positions to place and 2 nozzles should do full 5 trips but on 5th trip there only one nozzle working you can see at around the 36 min mark of the video. But very helpful video.
Thanks Peter , That's a great review just what I wanted to know. I think the "its hammer time " should be added to open PNP drag feeders. Just for sheer entertainment value.
Thank you for the only well detailed thing I can find on the Internet about using this machine. We have a question about what pitch is appropriate for 0402 feeders. Is this something you're familiar with? Trying to find super detailed info on this is rather lean.
A big "thank you" for posting this very informative video. I've been considering for some time to purchase a YY1 for my work, and it serves as another mostly positive data point, along with the others. I have a much older Neoden machine that has thus far served me well, but also 'within its limitations', as it does not have vision at all.... and for obvious reasons I wish to upgrade. 0402 parts are a major challenge for it. ( Though I forgive it, for as I age and my eyesight fails me they're becoming a challenge for me as well 🤣) I look forward to more videos should you decide to make them.
You are welcome. I’m glad you found it useful. Since you said mostly positive, I feel like I was objective enough. It has limitations for sure, but it is that simplicity that I also feel is one if it’s main strengths! If there is an appetite I can certainly post more videos about the YY1.
@@betztechnikindustriesltd.8901 that would be great. Also share your last 1 month real use experience as well. I saw some videos where people have issues with peeling plastic stuck to the rotors.
I'm pretty sure that I want to design and build my own machine rather than get a YY1 (I ordered some of your Juki nozzle holders... yay!). But I still found this interesting and educational. I'm looking forward to seeing more about your experience with this machine.
I hope you enjoy our nozzle holders! I certainly wouldn’t suggest anyone should cancel their build plans, for me this machine is supplemental. I’m glad you enjoyed the video.
@@betztechnikindustriesltd.8901 Thank you! I didn't order other items because I'd like to make some different design choices, but I have found your whole open-source build to be very educational and inspirational. 🍻
I have two questions I hope you can answer. #1, do you find the tabletop adequate, or do you think it would be better on a sturdy stand that has an opening for the used tape to pass through? #2, what is your favorite solder paste? I'm using ChipQuik NC191AX35 that flows well, but it is 63/37 lead and I'm interested trying some lead-free.
We have no issue on the bench. In fact we pick it up and store it in the cabinet each time. It’s well engineered and rigid. It wiggles and shakes on the bench but that doesn’t seem to hurt its performance. We use GC-10, but we don’t have a ton of experience with other pastes to compare. We have no issues aside from a pretty hot reflow temp that must be hit for it to flow.
Very useful video - thanks for taking your time to do that. I did not quite understand what went wrong at @1.03 where the needle appears to slam into the panel. I assume it is some error but what provoked this.?
That is how you calibrate the feeder needle. In slams down to make a mark that you then find with the camera. It’s aggressive because it’s a solenoid. Works great!
This video is great but I cant use it as a reference on how to use the machine. After this one, you must make a new clean video showing the exact steps from the beginning on how to load your CVS file and start from there. Watching this one hour video was not the correct decision to know how to use the YY1. Sorry its so confusing
We are probably getting a YY1. Are there any accessories you would suggest to add to the standard model? I am planning on getting more trays and cut-strip feeders as these appear handy for small prototype production.
According to the specs, it can place a maximum of 18mm x 18mm square, which would be TQFP-144 I guess. I did figure out my vision issues with the larger parts and it’s working now. Will do an update video. The TQFP’s I’m placing aren’t 100% perfect but I’m suspecting it’s because the PCB rail isn’t 100% square to the X rail.
I don't know if neoden sent you a "perfectly assembled" machine just for the review, because I got one and it was a whole mess... X and Y belts weren't tightened enough, the head even vibrated while moving in the Y axis. Repeatability was totally none.... eveytime we pointed to a component, position was different... everytime!!!. Needle gets sometimes stuck when it goes down, you have to "push" it up so it goes back Left motor sometimes misses some "steps"... and you have to calibrate the machine again. Nozzle station position was totally wrong.... how we made it work?... who knows!!!. Getting the machine to translate the components' centroids from your CSV file, was a huge problem... (we use EAGLE and they told us that it was designed for Altium's files), we made an Altium Designer Pick and Place file... and didn't work either!!!... When we finally made it to "interpret" the centroids' coordinates of the components... the machine wasn't able to "read" the rotation values correctly, so it set all the rotation values for every component to 0°. So, now that you show the machine working Perfectly fine just after unboxing it.... even without vision system sometimes... I simply don't know what to think nor what to say....
Well I obviously can’t say for sure. I did discuss videos with them first, so maybe they spent a little extra time on ours? We just found our nozzle station was off too. I might be able to put that in our follow up video. As far as board files, I just looked at their demo file and rearranged the columns of what KiCad spits out. 5 min job. I can actually automate the process but haven’t bothered as we do production not prototyping. Sorry to hear you had trouble (not saying ours was perfect, just better than expected for the money!)
I have answered that in more detail in another comment I think. I recall 18 x 18 which is TQFP 144 I think ? It does 0201 but I’m not sure about min part pitch. I’ve got the vision working for large IC’s now but there is still an alignment issue, more like rotation but I think it’s the pcb alignment rail. Investigating and will report back.
Hello again. I looked and I only see their cut tape holders and vibe feeders on their Aliexress store. You should reach out to them to see if they would sell the feeders separately. I bought it directly from NeoDen, You should reach out to Tonny on Skype (tonny-neoden) and see if you can purchase the feeders from them.
I'm working with a Neoden assembly line at my job. It consist of a Neoden S1 pick and place and a Neoden IN12 for the reflow oven. The software on the S1 just isn't good, at least not as good as the one on the machine you're using. It does the job but only when you went through *EVERY* problem the machine will have in a production. Great hardware ruined by poorly done software.
No automatic calibration, and no detection if the circuit board is twisted, that's shit. It's better to spend a little more money for a machine that can do that.
There’s no question that if you have demanding requirements you should probably buy something more advanced. But if you don’t, then is it worth it?? I did hear somewhere that they are working on dual fiducial alignment, I will ask them about it. I would have thought there there’s no chance of your panels being skewed in rotation, I thought all you’d get is an offset in X and Y. If it’s common for boards to be rotated it could explain why we aren’t placing TQFP 24 perfectly… I will have to investigate further.
@@betztechnikindustriesltd.8901 I think it works for smaller PCBs well. But when you have bigger PCBs there might be problems? I don't know why they implemented the fiducial check with two or three fiducials. They told me that's not easy to implement and there is another camera required. I don't understand this, because it's also possible to pick up loose components. So the fiducial measurement should be no problem. I think only one fiducial as you say should also work. But then is a fixed zero point needed. Better then nothing. The other thing that bothers me is the calibration of the nozzles and the pin. Why they don't use the bottom camera for calibration like any professional machine does? I know that the YY1 is cheaper compared to other PnP's. But they should have invested a little more time in the software. Then it would also be a real reason to buy.
How big of an idiot would you have to be to put in your PCB skewed? I have a simple TM240A that had no vision, and I never worried about a skewed board because it snaps into holders with spring loading. My investment paid for itself 50X over and now I'm upgrading to the YY1.
Your review and going through the first steps is really very well done and detailed.
But new tools are always great ... after a few months, sometimes it looks different and frustration or disappointment spreads in some aspects that you did not see in the beginning. It would be really nice and helpful to get another video with some distance from the honeymoon. Thanks in advance for that!
Couldn’t agree more! We have one mostly filmed. Maybe it will be done by the end of the week.
Many thanks for this video! It just so happens that I'm taking delivery of a YY1 today. Your video has provided a wealth of practical information and has boosted my confidence that I made a good decision to purchase the YY1.
Congrats. I just ran another small job the other day and it went quite well. Hope you have the same luck as me with the machine!
@@betztechnikindustriesltd.8901 The YY1 arrived and there was some shipping damage to the bottom camera display, which prevents me from doing bottom camera calibration. Neoden USA instantaneously responded to my email about this (in the evening!) and had a replacement display panel ordered within the hour. I was still able to get the demo PCB placement working, with good results. I also used the tape extenders for mounting in the feeders. I found that you need to be careful and not have any of the adhesive on the extender exposed, otherwise the tape will get wound up in the gears that pull the tape cover.
@@infinitemachinery7409 Well that sounds like the best result of an unfortunate situation! I just ran into that adhesive issue today, definitely a thing, haha.
Hi,my dear friend from Betz Technik Industries Ltd.,thank you for choosing of our NeoDen YY1 Pick and Place machine and nice sharing video.--tonny-neoden
Our pleasure! In our opinion you guys have made a great little machine considering the cost.
Glad you are able to share your experience with the yy1. I have been considering it, but concerned about the tape cover winders and the single fiducial alignment. I am just south of you in Kamloops!
It’s not perfect but it’s been working well for us. The QFP 24 processors usually need a slight bump with the tweezer to align but the other parts are usually no issue at all.
Hello, I think you missed to program to place at 5th position for 0201 you can count that there are 10 positions to place and 2 nozzles should do full 5 trips but on 5th trip there only one nozzle working you can see at around the 36 min mark of the video. But very helpful video.
This was a wonderful, informative and very helpful video. Thanks for sharing your journey!
Glad you enjoyed it Jon!
Thanks Peter , That's a great review just what I wanted to know. I think the "its hammer time " should be added to open PNP drag feeders. Just for sheer entertainment value.
Glad you found it useful. Oh that’s a missed opportunity for sure!!! 😅
Thank you for the only well detailed thing I can find on the Internet about using this machine. We have a question about what pitch is appropriate for 0402 feeders. Is this something you're familiar with? Trying to find super detailed info on this is rather lean.
I think the parts are at 4mm linear spacing in the tape, if that is what you mean?
A big "thank you" for posting this very informative video. I've been considering for some time to purchase a YY1 for my work, and it serves as another mostly positive data point, along with the others. I have a much older Neoden machine that has thus far served me well, but also 'within its limitations', as it does not have vision at all.... and for obvious reasons I wish to upgrade. 0402 parts are a major challenge for it. ( Though I forgive it, for as I age and my eyesight fails me they're becoming a challenge for me as well 🤣)
I look forward to more videos should you decide to make them.
You are welcome. I’m glad you found it useful. Since you said mostly positive, I feel like I was objective enough. It has limitations for sure, but it is that simplicity that I also feel is one if it’s main strengths! If there is an appetite I can certainly post more videos about the YY1.
@@betztechnikindustriesltd.8901 that would be great. Also share your last 1 month real use experience as well. I saw some videos where people have issues with peeling plastic stuck to the rotors.
Hello sir .. yy1 model How to change camera mode binary to image..
I'm pretty sure that I want to design and build my own machine rather than get a YY1 (I ordered some of your Juki nozzle holders... yay!). But I still found this interesting and educational. I'm looking forward to seeing more about your experience with this machine.
I hope you enjoy our nozzle holders! I certainly wouldn’t suggest anyone should cancel their build plans, for me this machine is supplemental. I’m glad you enjoyed the video.
@@betztechnikindustriesltd.8901 Thank you! I didn't order other items because I'd like to make some different design choices, but I have found your whole open-source build to be very educational and inspirational. 🍻
BRAZIL RIO DE JANEIRO . MAIS UM INSCRITO POR CONTA DESTE VÍDEO.
I have two questions I hope you can answer. #1, do you find the tabletop adequate, or do you think it would be better on a sturdy stand that has an opening for the used tape to pass through? #2, what is your favorite solder paste? I'm using ChipQuik NC191AX35 that flows well, but it is 63/37 lead and I'm interested trying some lead-free.
We have no issue on the bench. In fact we pick it up and store it in the cabinet each time. It’s well engineered and rigid. It wiggles and shakes on the bench but that doesn’t seem to hurt its performance. We use GC-10, but we don’t have a ton of experience with other pastes to compare. We have no issues aside from a pretty hot reflow temp that must be hit for it to flow.
Nice Video 👍 looks nice
Thank you 👍
Very useful video - thanks for taking your time to do that. I did not quite understand what went wrong at @1.03 where the needle appears to slam into the panel. I assume it is some error but what provoked this.?
That is how you calibrate the feeder needle. In slams down to make a mark that you then find with the camera. It’s aggressive because it’s a solenoid. Works great!
This video is great but I cant use it as a reference on how to use the machine. After this one, you must make a new clean video showing the exact steps from the beginning on how to load your CVS file and start from there. Watching this one hour video was not the correct decision to know how to use the YY1. Sorry its so confusing
We are probably getting a YY1. Are there any accessories you would suggest to add to the standard model? I am planning on getting more trays and cut-strip feeders as these appear handy for small prototype production.
Yes I would agree to get some extra cut tape holders! I might make some CNC machined trays for larger IC’s.
Is the reel feeder custom made or come with the machine? I would appreciate the 3d model for them.
They are 3D printed from the factory and I doubt they would share the files.
What's the largest part that can be placed, assuming of course you have to use a different feeder i.e.TQFP-100?
According to the specs, it can place a maximum of 18mm x 18mm square, which would be TQFP-144 I guess. I did figure out my vision issues with the larger parts and it’s working now. Will do an update video. The TQFP’s I’m placing aren’t 100% perfect but I’m suspecting it’s because the PCB rail isn’t 100% square to the X rail.
I don't know if neoden sent you a "perfectly assembled" machine just for the review, because I got one and it was a whole mess...
X and Y belts weren't tightened enough, the head even vibrated while moving in the Y axis.
Repeatability was totally none.... eveytime we pointed to a component, position was different... everytime!!!.
Needle gets sometimes stuck when it goes down, you have to "push" it up so it goes back
Left motor sometimes misses some "steps"... and you have to calibrate the machine again.
Nozzle station position was totally wrong.... how we made it work?... who knows!!!.
Getting the machine to translate the components' centroids from your CSV file, was a huge problem... (we use EAGLE and they told us that it was designed for Altium's files), we made an Altium Designer Pick and Place file... and didn't work either!!!...
When we finally made it to "interpret" the centroids' coordinates of the components... the machine wasn't able to "read" the rotation values correctly, so it set all the rotation values for every component to 0°.
So, now that you show the machine working Perfectly fine just after unboxing it.... even without vision system sometimes...
I simply don't know what to think nor what to say....
Well I obviously can’t say for sure. I did discuss videos with them first, so maybe they spent a little extra time on ours? We just found our nozzle station was off too. I might be able to put that in our follow up video. As far as board files, I just looked at their demo file and rearranged the columns of what KiCad spits out. 5 min job. I can actually automate the process but haven’t bothered as we do production not prototyping. Sorry to hear you had trouble (not saying ours was perfect, just better than expected for the money!)
Can anyone tell me the max PCB size the YY1 can handle? And the smallest pitch components it can handle?
I have answered that in more detail in another comment I think. I recall 18 x 18 which is TQFP 144 I think ? It does 0201 but I’m not sure about min part pitch. I’ve got the vision working for large IC’s now but there is still an alignment issue, more like rotation but I think it’s the pcb alignment rail. Investigating and will report back.
Hi, very impressive. Feeders look different. They look wider. Where did you get them and how can we buy? Thank you...
The feeders come with the machine. They also sell them on AliExpress I think as well…
@@betztechnikindustriesltd.8901 I couldn't find the part on alibaba or aliexpress :( May I ask where you bought the yy1 from?
Hello again. I looked and I only see their cut tape holders and vibe feeders on their Aliexress store. You should reach out to them to see if they would sell the feeders separately. I bought it directly from NeoDen, You should reach out to Tonny on Skype (tonny-neoden) and see if you can purchase the feeders from them.
@@betztechnikindustriesltd.8901 Thank you very much!
any updates?
Yes I do have some updates. I’ve got some more footage and updates, will have to make a new video.
Please, give us some update?
It’s coming !!
I'm working with a Neoden assembly line at my job. It consist of a Neoden S1 pick and place and a Neoden IN12 for the reflow oven. The software on the S1 just isn't good, at least not as good as the one on the machine you're using. It does the job but only when you went through *EVERY* problem the machine will have in a production. Great hardware ruined by poorly done software.
Honestly the software on the YY1 is not bad.
No automatic calibration, and no detection if the circuit board is twisted, that's shit. It's better to spend a little more money for a machine that can do that.
There’s no question that if you have demanding requirements you should probably buy something more advanced. But if you don’t, then is it worth it?? I did hear somewhere that they are working on dual fiducial alignment, I will ask them about it. I would have thought there there’s no chance of your panels being skewed in rotation, I thought all you’d get is an offset in X and Y. If it’s common for boards to be rotated it could explain why we aren’t placing TQFP 24 perfectly… I will have to investigate further.
@@betztechnikindustriesltd.8901 I think it works for smaller PCBs well. But when you have bigger PCBs there might be problems?
I don't know why they implemented the fiducial check with two or three fiducials. They told me that's not easy to implement and there is another camera required. I don't understand this, because it's also possible to pick up loose components. So the fiducial measurement should be no problem.
I think only one fiducial as you say should also work. But then is a fixed zero point needed. Better then nothing.
The other thing that bothers me is the calibration of the nozzles and the pin. Why they don't use the bottom camera for calibration like any professional machine does?
I know that the YY1 is cheaper compared to other PnP's. But they should have invested a little more time in the software. Then it would also be a real reason to buy.
How big of an idiot would you have to be to put in your PCB skewed? I have a simple TM240A that had no vision, and I never worried about a skewed board because it snaps into holders with spring loading. My investment paid for itself 50X over and now I'm upgrading to the YY1.