What Do Comic Book Dealers Think Of Current CGC Comics? 9.9's? Lawsuits? WonderCon 2024 Discussion
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2024
- In this video we are back at it once again talking to COMIC BOOK DEALERS this time at WONDERCON Comics 2024. I always enjoy putting these types of videos together because I think its always great hearing from all these experts and getting their thoughts on what is going on in the current comic book collecting market. This time I hit them with all the big topics surrounding CGC. This was the first time I've been able to get their thoughts on all the SCAMS, Lawsuits, Reholdergate, JSA merger and recent trends with grading 9.9's including the now infamous GSX 1. It's interesting to hear their perspectives regarding these topics and how they think it has effected the comic market and collector behavior.
Hope you guys enjoy the video!
Timestamps
00:00 - Intro
01:34 - High Grade Comics
09:39 - Comic Web
16:34 - Elveen's Comics
29:18 - TNK Comics
34:03 - The Blue Chip Comic
41:31 - FVF Comics
Sanity Comic Kickstarter Is Live! www.kickstarter.com/projects/...
Thank you to all the dealers for taking the time, go give them a follow.
High Grade Comics - / highgradecomics
Comic Web - / comicweb
Elveen's Comics - / elveens_comics
TNK Comics & Collectibles - / thenandoknight
The Blue Chip Comic - / thebluechipcomic
FVF Comics - www.fvfcomics.com/
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#comics #comicbooks #comiccon
I love reading comics and enjoying the artwork.. I don't own a single "slab"... Keep your comics free from enclosure to enjoy!!!
Yeah so your grubby hands can ruin the value.
@@walkthataisle 🤣 Yep! The comics value to me is the enjoyment I get from them! 😃
That's why God invented tradepaperbacks.
I am a long time reader/collector or comics. I will not ever buy a slabbed comic. I have zero trust for graded books. I feel that any of the grading services have damaged the hobby. I really liked thus video and getting the perspective from the dealers.
dude i have sent in hundreds of books to CGC and have never got a 9.9 ...2 weeks ago i sent a 25 book submission and got five 9.9s in one submission
In the end meaning that 9.8s are now dropping fast. People just dont know it yet. What a scam this 9.9 stuff is.
If that’s true, it’s good info. You should make a short video proving it.
The difference 'twixt the 2 are ridiculous. It's all marketing. This is how they get people to resubmit 9.8s to try & get 9.9s. It works; rakes in the dolo. Sadly. Not an issue for me however. Raw all day. I prefer to look in my books, & see the other 95% of the book, not just the cover & back; they're not hocKEY cards, they're key books with beautiful art pages, & fun literature by fantastic writers. Profiteers & their avariciousness always ruin hobbies.
@@jEDi_BUddhA_YOGi people have different reasons for getting books graded...the books ive had since i was a kid in the 90s hold a special place for me and most of the books i get now are for the cover art ALONE...they put shitty artists on the inside alot of times and the stories are unreadable so yeah i dont feel no bad way for slabbin these modern "cover art for the carry" books
Well Cgc is drumming up business
This is one of my favorite videos. As individual collectors, it's easy to get lost in the weeds. So it's especially insightful to get the comic dealer's perspective on the bigger picture. I enjoy hearing all of the different viewpoints on the current state of the hobby from those in the know. Thank you for creating & sharing this valuable content with the comic community!
I love these dealer interviews... Christian is always my favorite. Would love to see him in one of your shows as a guest.
I’m a CBCS guy purely because my LCS swears by them and I really like their slab better than CGC’s. I’ll still be using them after all of this just for the fact that, for me, CGC has to start over. Their 9.9 Giant Sized X-men throws the existing scale away and starts new.
I’m a case, though, where I collect and don’t flip and only grade books I buy from my LCS.
The 9.9 grading is a joke. It's just a money grab by CGC and everybody knows it.
A new (potentially massive) revenue stream for CGC . A glass eye up a ducks ass could see that.
Well done interviews. You didn't make the mistake of asking a question and then spend 5 minutes explaining why you are asking that question. Great content.
The Raiders guy should have a podcast of his own
Lil' skeletons in the capsule. Not sure how anyone can trust CGC now. I wouldn't of bought that AC#1 for $6 million unless they cracked it open in front of me, & I was able to count the pages, then I would of had a professional (not a novice player like CGC) encapsulate it for me in real glass. Are you kidding me...? A $6,000,000 piece of art in a cheap plastic capsule by a company known for not being authentic. I'm done with encapsulated books. Buying all my keys raw from now on.
This comment is on point .
Perfect timing to see Cgc grade a 9.9 GSX1 to over see the mists of scandal etc.... it's a business. Plain and simple. Great video with the dealers
17:22 Wu Tang ODB reference!! We’re definitely allowing that!
"Allowin'?" Ain't no one stoppin' tha Dirt - shimmy shimmy ya! Furthermore, I'm w/ dawgie; only raw from now on! R.i.P. to tha god *Osirus*
These are my favorite type of videos. Keep up the good work. These are the type of videos I can watch over and over again.
I would totally agree with the guy that said @cbcs has had every opportunity to take advantage and gain market share. They don’t seem interested.
Wonder what their move is now?
@@tensixtythreecomics nothing. They seem to like to watch from the sideline as CGC gives them opportunities after opportunity.
So much to say!:
This for me is one of your best videos. I really enjoyed how you asked the same direct questions in the same order to each person. All the dealers answered directly and it was refreshing to hear!
I also liked the variety of answers especially around cbcs. It always surprised me when people would send a book to cgc to get “marked in ink” instead of cbcs. There was so much great opinions in this interview!
This is one of those videos I will likely watch again.
Personally I have very little confidence in cgc right now and this whole 9.9 thing is a game changer. The siggy thing is almost signs of desperation on cgc’s part. Like one of the people said “why now”???
Thanks for this
All the dealers' comments were insightful. Thank you, Swagglehaus, for asking good questions and then letting the dealers talk and formulate their points without interrupting them. I especially Mr. Sloan's analysis of 9.9 and 10 graded books.
The last guy from FVF comics i actually liked listening to him talk. out of all the guys talking, you can tell he is very passionate about comics and while it is a business to him. He still enjoys it as a hobby as a whole and is more in it to enjoy it. While also making sure his clients are into it to enjoy it as much as him. Sadly vendors like him are few and far between at these kind of cons. Just like he said about not selling books above a 9.0 raw and how he views signature books as a whole about it use to be free getting stuffed signed back in the 90's.
Hes actually a vendor who i could do business with when looking at what he has for sale and be able to work out a good deal when buying books from compared to many vendors at these kind of cons that are more focused on the money aspect of this once great hobby instead of what it use to be and that is the enjoyment and fun of owning awesome books.
dont feel bad,down here cons are dominated by wrestlers, cosplay, voice actors and a smattering of old comic dealers,....those things are cool, but for comic collectors like myself, it just runs up the price of tickets for something i could care less about, but still have to help pay for,.....
I'm a little grouchy purchasing my Batman Adventures #12 in a 9.8. With so many of them on the market, I know at least several of them will be 'upgraded' to a 9.9
I just sold mine last week because of this exact thought. Dump now before it’s too late.
@@DanSchawbel Appreciate the advice. I was literally wondering if I should do just that.
@@Paulies-Hideout Do what's best for you. I love that comic and HQ and batman the animated series, but I know that the value will shatter when 9.8's get re-graded 9.9's. I can buy back for $500 in a few years if I want.
Guess who's comic book I picked up at King Con 5 over the weekend? Which by the way was one of the greatest shows ever. I met Klaus Janson and had a long conversation with him. What a great guy. When I got home I looked at my free comic book I got at the door and it was yours! Which I am so excited to read. My Saturday night might be reading your book and listening to 80's music. How cool is that? Btw I love your channel and think it's the best when it comes to comic book CZcamsrs.
Brad from FVF Comics knows his $hit, his answers to your questions/topics are more practical and sensible. He's been around awhile and most likely seen it all. His knowledge and wisdom is far beyond the younger dealers in todays marketplace, I'd feel safe doing business with Brad! The best part of the hobby was haggling and dissecting a comic to complete a fair, agreeable deal on a purchase price. Today you put your faith in a newly hired grader, deciding if your comic is a 9.8 or a 9.0 costing the owner perhaps $1000's, rarer comics $10,000's -$100,000's! Enjoyed the interviews!
thats a big issue you dont see talked about enough is that as graders come and go over the years,...grading can change as well, yesterdays F is now a VF- and so on,...can ai be used to grade books yet? hmmm.
ive never slabbed a book, have had to buy a few, ....so ill watch with minor interest....
I always look forward to this video. Great job, Swagglehaus! 👍
I love the one dealer repeats "it's CBCS's" fault for not gaining market share but in the same breath says I got all these sigs I can send to CGC now? You mean as a dealer it was your choice to not send books into CBCS further perpetuating the CBCS is less than notion. All the while CGC just had reholder gate, internal switch switch gate, soft 9.8's on heritage, and finally 9.9 pre-screen into Giant Size 9.8 moonlighting as a 9.9. What can CBCS do when everyone has blind featly to CGC no matter what they do?
This!! Most accurate summation of this 'debate'.
Exactly. CGC has a stranglehold on the market and people don't want to admit they are willing to look the other way versus risk their own collection of CGC books lose value. Unless CBC was to offer free grading on all CGC books, those who have sunk thousands perhaps 10s of thousands of dollars into CGC will never budge.
CBCS's only big differentiator was signature authentication, so yeah, they haven’t done much of anything to gain market share, and that's on them. Meanwhile their books go for less, so as a dealer, you're going to hold onto your investment until you can get maximum value out of it (CGC's more valuable signature verification).
@@crowrevell2082 People readily admit that they're going for maximum value.
@@revoltpuppy I completely get the business aspect of CBCS selling for less than CGC but that has nothing to do with CBCS. There is nothing that CBCS can do to make their slabs in grade sell for the same price. This is my only point of contention, saying its CBC's fault for not grabbing more market share but no dealer is willing to slab in mass with CBCS and take the "financial" hit. CBCS could tape $100 dollar bills to each slab and Heritge still would send anything them.
I love your videos like this when you get a good gauge of how the dealers feel about the market. A lot of different and yet very reasonable insights.
Thanks for the video Swag. This is my favorite segment of content you put out. Keep up the great work.✌️
My main issue besides the scandal stuff is, I can;t see anything that warrants the price jump between 2 books 1/10th of a point difference. I mean serious jumps.
This reminds me of the housing crisis of 2007-2008 where everyone from the mortgage companies, investment banks, insurance companies, ratings agencies and everyone else was making a lot money off of fees and could care less about the health of the market. CGC only cares about fees , not the market or collectors. Once they squeeze all the juice out they'll liquidate their assets and move on. These are hedge fund ppl, they are the worst of the worst.
What a great video! Thank you Swagglehaus for the consistently great content! Great questions and answers, very informative.
ODB! Oh baby I like it raw! Oh baby I like it raw! Oh baby I like it raw! lol That remark in the video at around 17:20 was priceless.
Wow! Thank you this was very informative. It was nice meeting you at this last Near Mint Sunday event. Keep up the good work.
Great work Swaggy!!! This is what comic books youtube should be about!
Brad should have his own show, he talks so much sense, old school like myself.
It’s silly to think that authenticating a signature is “only as good as the authenticator” but grading can be done by any one of the dozens of “professionals” and we’re supposed to assumed it’s the definitive grade.
One of the things that could resolve this problem and help people see what is a true 99 versus a 98 is having CGC put greater notes on every single book and explain why the grade the book received is there. Can you imagine if a 99 explained why it wasn’t a 10? It would blow the market apart.
Swaggle and the Defects are the best!! Another awesome video!! The questions were on point
These videos are fire. THESE videos are the reason I showed up the very first time.
The only influence CGC - and other like grading services have - is what the market collectively gives them. Without that group-think-market-confidence, these grading services have little influence. In other words, they have credibility, only because they have credibility, just as the Kardashians are celebrities, because they’re celebrities.
Love Blue Chip Nico’s integrity. I need to do some business with them.
These were great interviews, thanks a lot Swag!
I love these interviews. Would love to watch and listen to more people that are living the comic book life.
I love these - thanks for doing them for us!!
You bet!
Great show, I love the interviews, you did an awesome job, bro, your guests were amazing.
Blue Chip has good advice for those people looking at 9.9s like gold prospectors. Be smart, don't gamble.
Great insight from the dealer interviews 👊thanks Swaggle..
Love the dealer interviews, thanks for the effort.
Appreciate your work & Content ! 📚🔨
"Get your Swaggle on!' 😂
Great video.
My favorite videos you make. nice work
“No, we don’t eant to sell you fries and bacon” - best line of the video!
- Great interviews, Swagglehaus.
I submitted an ASM 194 during that time period it came back a 9.8! It was my book tho. I checked the number. 🥵
great questions and great interviewees
These are the best. Thank you.
Great channel and good content. Just a word, When you hear a dealer comment in the video "Whats the difference between 9.9 and 9.8s NOTHING! It does not provide confidence in buying either at this point simply because if 9.9 is a ridiculous grade and 9.8s are now going to go down in worth, Then why bother collecting them at this point? For me, on graded books, they only way for me to get around this is to buy raw or if slabbed, lower priced 9.6s and 9.4s after waiting for them to take a domino drop for 6 months after this 9.9 baloney cycles thru.
These are the best videos!
I like that last guy from FVF, and agree with several of his points.
Great video thanks for sharing this commentary from professional dealers, great insights! 😎👍
Super job Mickey - thanks for doing this video
Great job!
Great content. Super informative and helpful. Question - Mark Jewellers was mentioned by Elveen. Segue of sorts - any comments or thought on Canadian Price Variants. Not as rare as MJ, but still tough to get keys in high grade. Cheers.
These interviews are some of the most interesting stuff from Swag👍
Great vid...thanks
Christian at Elveen is definitely a "pitch" man. And that's not necessarily a pejorative. That said...
I don't think anyone who expects a 9.8 is happy with a 9.6. I also don't think very many people actually care about Mark Jewelers books, and so there was a fair amount of satisfaction among a certain collector demographic in seeing people who paid a fortune for an advertisement insert get burned. But if you are heavily leveraged in selling those MJs and 9.6s then you are going to be bullish on them.
He and others in this video are rightly concerned but dancing around the impact of 9.9s, which is that a collector deeply invested in 9.8s is going to leave the hobby. A max exodus kills value across the board and a LOT of people were 9.8 collectors.
Soon, CGC will add a new 9.95 tier to lure all the 9.9's to be regraded.
I like what Brad (from VFV Comics) said about embossing the well itself with the serial number.
The ONLY thing wrong with that idea is that you just KNOW CGC will screw that up too. Someone will mistake an "8" for a "0", and then people will really freak out when the serial numbers between the well and label don't match up thinking the slab was swapped out [again].
These are my favorite videos of your swag
Great interviews and great point about the masses being whatever about cgc. Even so, it’s up to the diligent minority to keep these companies in check.
The "taking to dealers at cons" are my favorite types of videos you do.
Bob is the man!
thanks, mickey, i cant imagine, living in the rural area i do, the traffic you must deal with every day there,...
that said, i like these type of videos the best of most you do, hang in there,...
Brad is the best! I agree with everything he says. I've got comics from him for years. Great dude! Raw is the best. Always will be.
I sense there were quite a few cuts/retakes/stoppages during that Elveen commentary. He sounds like he drinks an aquarium of espresso every day. lol. Seems like a nice dude, though. I agree with him on Swag being the kindest dude. When I walked up to him at the last Collectors Summit and started talking to him, he talked to me like he knew me for years. Anyway, I like these "ask the dealer" interviews. One thing I think should be in all these interviews is the question "what are some trends you're seeing in the market whether they be price, subject matter, publishers, general fan interest that you're seeing increasing or declining?" Or just ask them about anything they're noticing about the market like "Are Silver and Bronze still tanking in price?" or "Is Golden Age gaining interest?", etc. And I'll repeat what I've said in the past - this 9.9gate seems pathetic for what CGC is doing. It seems like a manipulation of the market for profits at the expense of others while CGC rakes in money.
Enjoyed this. Christian is a character.
Hey Swagg - love your channel and you actually inspired me to do a 1-100 Avengers run as well. Just curious if you have ever been to Heroescon and if you plan to go this year? It is in my opinion, the best true "comic" con.
Heroes Con is AWESOME! It’s a comic focused show, tons of great books in the room and lots of dealers.
Bragadocius is back!
The highest chance for errors and issues will always be graded books. Grading is very subjective and always has been. I mainly collect high grade raw comics and I don't need a perfect book to be happy. Everyone has their own idea of how to collect. Just be happy with how you collect.
Christian is the Man!🎉
CGC uses JSA for autograph authentication. I’ve had numerous issues with JSA along with others who had lawsuits and won, and somehow they still have a high reputation of grading autos. So although I agree with the sentiment of his point…. It takes way more than 1 mishap to ruin a reputation. Grading in general across all platforms is only as good as the 1 guy grading. Autos or not. Video games to comics to cards to vhs and everything between. CBCS uses Beckett (their owner) that I trust a little more but is not issue free. Still highly respected in reputation. ACOA and PSA is overall the best to grade cards and autographs in my opinion and PSA has a reputation for mistreating cards and grading high before the mistreatment, so you could have a damaged 10 lol. They all pull shady crap and all are still successful. CGC had to get into unwitnessed graphs because CBCS is stealing that market share, along with a better looking slab boosting sales. I also agree, graded books are still a large part of the market, it’s healthy and it’s not going anywhere… even if niche.
Brad is the best!
It was always said by many that the difference between a CGC 9.6 and a 9.8 is whether or not the person grading was having a good day or a bad day as the subjective difference of that 0.2 differential. It's that very reason why it's smarter to buy 9.6's over 9.8's if the price is right and value spread is wide.
It was always rumored that the difference between a CGC 9.8 and getting a CGC 9.9 or 10.0 was if you were a whale client or name was J. Scott Campbell or Jim Lee submitting exclusives. The term "gift grading" was always thrown around.
Grading is great, but take it with a grain of salt, it's a subjective professional opinion and evaluation. Crack and Resubmit 100 modern 9.6 and 9.8 books and I'd wager a lot of 'em will come back with interchangeable different grades.
I'm a fan of CGC grading for the presentation (beautiful picture frame type presentation), archival storage (the slabs/encapsulation), the authentication (yeah, despite trimming and other scandals, I still think they are high odds good for detecting restoration) and the grading (as a general opinion).
i always like these type of vids when u talk to the dealers ......... couple of them on this episode almost made me go to sleep though ,,, words out they mouth just over my head i guess ,, no way 9.9-10 sales makiing 9.8 values go down ,, smh
I have a bunch of 9.9 thst I haven’t sent in yet. I ll get around to it
Let me know when you are done. Out of respect, I will hold my 10s until you are done.
You think about why dealers sell overgraded raws priced at a graded book at a minimum?
I enjoy Swag's content but my favorite is when Swag interviews others (dealers) in the community and i get to hear more of a broad spectrum of anslysis and thought.
Blackstone is a big part owner on cgc now. They will look for anyway no matter how small to increase profit
Elveen is always legit.
it's easy to tell if 9.8's will drop if a 9.9 came out bc it's already happened, i don't have an account for GPA to check but did new mutants 98 9.8's drop in price once a 9.9 hit the market beyond normal market flux & movie hype? if it did then they have a valid point, if it didn't then it's all scare tactics
Each of these guests sed what was in my head... except I'm not sure what I'll do w/th TWO CBCS slabs I have. And the handful of CGCs... well, I didn't think they were worth anything anyway. I think I'll just keep raw-doggin it.
The CGC 9.9 is crazy. Is there a discernible difference between a 9.8 and a 9.9? Seems like a scam to me.
Investors ask themselves a question. Have I purchased a ticket on the flavor of the generation, CGC. Gimme another scoop of the slab, sprinkle some of those cool colored labels on top, maybe in
the neighborhood of.9.8.and above.
The good news is you can keep cracking and resubmitting and how would CGC even know.
32:22 my boy @thenandoknight my hair in the background 😅
Guy from Blue Chip was a W
Quite surprised that if you’re looking to “invest” in comics with big price tags 1) you’d roll the dice in dealer raws with all the probable issues and 2) why wouldn’t you be knowledgeable about the scams and issues with CGC recently?
The fact that it just doesn’t go from 10.0 to 9.5 is stupid.
I say collection what u like .but if it starts to get bad drop it.i do it all the time.
People quit giving your hard earned money to these scam companies...too many suckers out there ...
Mary Lou was a perfect 10
Wow! People actually invest in comics , statues, stuff like that 🤦🏻♂️oh boy…. Just collect because you like it!!
Safest way is to stay away from signed books. If I want a wall book I can use a Comic Capsule.
about to sumbit my first cbcs book due to cgc BS
If whatever book you are looking to buy doesn’t have the rarity factor on any level you will lose money period