this is possibly the BEST/MOST USEFUL video by a cycling VLOGGER i have seen. the price factor for the gear has always been prohibitive for me, but i will see if i can get this (or shipped to ) Canada. Of course i am a subscriber!
Like Leonard I like cycling gadgets. As an older fitness rider, I realize a power meter is not necessary for me, but I like numbers and to have a structure in my training. This brings enjoyment to me, even if the power meter can't measure this.
Reading the comments, a lot of people are doing the curmudgeon thing of justifying why they don’t need newfangled stuff. I’m not sure why so many do that. It gets old. The other thing I see is that few know the value and use of a power meter. First, we can use it for fun. How high can I make it go? Can I keep it above 300 for the whole climb? I think this product works well for that purpose. It’s for entertainment. A more serious usage is structured training. For this, we want a real power meter. Not only does a simulation miss wind speed and road surface, but it won’t give you immediate feedback per pedal stroke. I do two types of structured work: HIIT and Zone 2. On High intensity interval training, I’m generally trying to keep my power above a given level for the climb. I want to know within a pedal stroke or two if I’m letting off. And I want reasonable accuracy. A PM is even more important for Zone 2. Keeping power within a band is really challenging! I need instant feedback to have any hope of success! The value is that you can really push yourself on HIIT days, and build endurance on Z2 days without overdoing it. That enables good recovery so you can smash the next intervals. I don’t race. I just want to get fit, get the most bang for my miles, and to be in good riding shape for the fun/reach/goal rides. Oh, one other use: to cap the watts on really long rides. It’s so easy to go too hard early in the day and to pay for it later. It feels so easy in the first miles! By staying under a cap, we can avoid getting overconfident. Maybe simulated power would help with this, but real power will give more immediate and accurate feedback. Anyway, good review of a unique product. For casual data heads on a budget, this could be a great solution. For serious structured training, pony up for the real thing. And if data isn’t your thing, that’s fine, but I’m not sure that anybody else cares.
The power curve doesnt show power data of a ride from start to finish in that order. They just show the powers for specific interval periods. Eg, if you were to do a 900 watt 5 second sprint at the end of your ride, it would show it at the 5 second mark at the beginning of the curve. It shows your best power for each interval....5 sec, 20, 30, 1 min etc.
Unfortunately power meters are a bit out of my price range. I bought one the Shanren miles computers just because they're cheap and they could provide me with some valuable information. My Wahoo Kickr measures power so this will hopefully give some insight into my outdoor routes.
Not really botherd re cycling stats do it for fun and guess getting some exercises. But at that price I clicked your link and bought one. So something to play with tomorrow 😅
Each to their own, appreciate the review, but it's not for me. Our lives are ruled by gadgets and electronic devices. Cycling is one of the things where I can enjoy for me, without feeling the need to perform or compare against anyone else.
and for something even more budget friendly, if you already have a Garmin Edge, you can get a widget from their Connect store that calculates your power just as Strava does, but in real time...and it's free ! It is not as accurate as a proper power meter of course, but for the not so serious rider that probably would not matter.
Interesting review. I already have a power meter, so this isn't actually useful to me, but it's always interesting to see what new tech is coming out. Your ride was pretty straightforward, which may help the accuracy. I would be curious to see how it performs under windy conditions.
I think the max power being seemingly off could have something to do with it's picking up the initial few location points incorrectly. For instance if it picked up the first point 10 meters behind you, then you ride forward another 5 meters forward, it must calculate that you did a huge amount of power to cover that 15m in such a short time. Then I guess it would do some trailing averaging so it also will show high power for the next minutes too. I think perhaps they could improve that with some updated code, maybe a bias against the first minutes of a ride. However maybe that was a one-off issue, maybe it was just unlucky, I guess more testing would be needed to know for sure. I think calculated power works decent for averages, longer the better, but on the fly, like down to the second updates, not so sure it will work well.
I have a power meter integrated into my Ultegra crankset, but I never use it. Frankly, I'm the kind of rider, who is very much in tune with what my heart, lungs and legs are capable of doing without needing the gadgetry. Regarding climbing, I am crap at it and freely admit I just don't enjoy that aspect of cycling, so if I get up a hill slower or faster it doesn't really matter to me as long as I don't suffer the personal humiliation of having to dismount. I mean, it can be irritating when a 55kgs whippersnapper effortlessly cruises past you going uphill, but one just learns to grin and bear it right? :)
Another nice video. I only use one on Zwift. Pay no attention. Have a heart issue so BPM is what's important to me. Many looking to improve can benefit from them. I'm on the down side , simple is best . Tech just confuses me. It's the thrill of riding that pulls me. Well done Sir!
Hi Leonard .. Greetings from Germany. I found the video very interesting, so I followed the links. Ordering with the US Amazon link cost €59.77 + 20.27 shipping. Using the UK link I'm told that they dont ship to Germany. Using Amazon Germany I get one result and that it cost €45.26 + €30.00 shipping, funny enough it's shipped from EMK Sports Ltd in the UK. I will just have to wait to see if it becomes available over here without horrendous shipping cost.
watched this again today.... still have not got any power meter yet... but after 3800 km and a diet i have dropped 35 pounds. hills that used to be hard are fine now. I even made it 8 km up local mountain (steepest at the bottom... could have gone all the way but out of fluids and time). longest ride 117 km. typical ride 50 km or so. beginning of the year average speed 21-22 km/hour. now 25-28 km/hr. Need new kit more than power meter though...sigh. on my wish list but the stock market is not helping this year. LOVE your channel.
I'm watching this video on my smartphone and for one reason or another I can' t click on there link nowv, so I can't control what the Actual price is. The price you mention ať 10:50 is quite different from the price in the title.
£38.90 on amazon (UK). Going on the old adage "you get what you pay for" I can't see this being much good, especially as the market is flooded with units twice this price.
Thanks for the info! I would have liked to see you hold a few different power levels (100W, 200W, 300W) steady for 1-2 minutes using the crank sensor and compare THAT info to the Miles. Averaging data will always always hide any big differences. Curious if you had to enter your weight and your bike's weight into the Miles so it could use that in its calculations? Did you notice that crank-based power meters were dropping in price, until the large companies (SRAM, Shimano, etc) started buying up the smaller cheaper brands (Powertap, Pioneer) so they could maintain their precious price points? Ahh, business! :) Thanks as always for your great channel!
Power estimation should become a standard for every bike computer in the cycling industry as far as the bike computer can read cadence, slope, speed and heart rate data. I'll get me one of this. Thanks for sharing! The Shanren Miles estimated power comparison with Vector 2 power meter on their Kickstarter page is really not bad. This device is a game changer. This is going to be great for people who want to ride efficiently within their power zones on long rides.
Another great video, interesting as it shows with out the right equipment readings are hit and miss, so for now ill stick with my garmin 510 gives all i need strava gives me a rough power outage i may be able to afford a power meter one day after saving for a new bike first 😁🚴♂️
Thanks so much for your interesting videos. I really enjoy all of them. Your presentation and technical details of the videos are impressive. This video on power meters was great. I will try them. Cheers!
Awesome video m8 as always I been happy with the garmin advice you have in a video I got a garmin 810 i find that's all I need been happy with just that but I do see the point in stuff like power
Great and informative video thanks! Coincidentally I just bought one myself, very busy now testing and comparing to Strava resultats. One thing - it´s an algorithm and like any algorithm it will need a longer time to converge to reliable results. So comparing e.g. over a ride of one hour.
@@jollygoodvelo would help if I called it the right thing lol! DCR Analyzer tool. DC Rainmaker built an app to compare multiple sources of data. If this link www.dcrainmaker.com/analyzer works otherwise his page it titled “DCR Analyzer Tool Overview & Manual”
unfortunately the frame geometry of my 2011 specialist keeps the tubing too far away from the crank arms to use a magnetic sensor.... something to be aware of.
You are misreading the power curve, it’s not the start to end of the ride but how long you sustain given power. Love your videos - really great to see a normal bloke enjoying riding his bike 👍🏼
The place I do my power tests is Gorcot Hill on the A435 East of Redditch. The road builders laid the dual carriageway at 5% ( 50mm in 1m ) for 1km, and there is a good 'runoff' stretch to a traffic island at Mappleborough Green. Firstly, I wait for a dead calm day. When one comes, I get kitted up and weigh myself and my bike ( the vehicle ) on my bathroom scales. Then I ride out there 15km and freewheel down the 5% to get an 'equilibrium velocity'. At the island at Mappleborough Green, I turn and then ride back up the hill with all my effort between two points I've measured at 1km apart. ( 25 lamp posts ). At the top there is a left turn filter into Ullenhall Lane with a grass area to topple over left and collapse. ( If you can stand upright astride you bike at the finish, you haven't given enough in the test. ) The rest is known vehicle aerodynamics and physics. To get a Cd, I use 4.3 sqft ( 0.4 m^2 ) for frontal area.
Ignore what he says about the power curve, he misunderstands what that chart does. It shows the highest average power by time duration, say 5 seconds or 20 minutes, from that ride. Might have happened at any point in the ride, your hardest X seconds was Y watts. What it can tell us about accuracy in this case is that the Miles ALWAYS reads higher than the Karoo and (since the averages are close) must also read lower than the Karoo for an equivalent amount of time; in other words, it's never momentarily correct, but manages to err in such a way that the average of the readings isn't far off. Now, you might have noticed on the Strava ride page an estimated average power for that ride. It's calculated using elevation change, average speeds, and rider weight (among others) and while higher than the Karoo still isn't far off. So if you want to track average power, you won't need a gizmo on your handlebar, just the Strava app running on the phone in your pocket.
Bought this on your recommendation and excited to get going. Really struggling to connect with Strava on my iPhone. Followed instructions but…any suggestions?
I like to know distance, elevation, avg speed, top speed ect. Picked up a cheapo cats eye computer. Does all but elevation. Two out of three ain't bad haha.
Looks like the time is a logarithmic scale, the first section is in seconds, the entire first section is 14 seconds, second section is about 45 seconds, third section is then 4m:10s, then the fourth section (which is about half the length of the third) is over 5 mins. With that in mind, the peak I think may be the start, accelerating your mass up to speed up a slight incline, once you are up to speed the only addition is acceleration due to gravity, up a slope of what ever percent it is, + wind losses. Its a fairly simple algo, If a known weight, up a slope of gradient, at g (9.81m/s^2) is amount of power used, divide by time to get power per segment. remember to add your bike weight if that is an input to the computer (i suspect it is), it will make it even more accurate. Cycling on the flat is easy, soon as you introduce a slope, (even a few degrees) it starts getting harder. If it was vertical then all the power is overcoming gravity just to maintain position, let alone accelerate up. Over all it looks great bit of kit for the penies. Thanks Ps, a good test would be on the flat, accelerate as hard as poss for 10 seconds, then stop over next 10 seconds. Then you are just accelerating mass, assuming no wind/friction losses. Then test with other. So, really no need to use strain gauges at all, good job from these guys. Unless your on a turbo trainer....:-)
i guess it puts the speed to the relation of the gradiant, so if u get speed down dill before a climb, it will think ur putting on a lot of watts during the beginning of the climb
Please can you help . I purchased a sharen miles cycle computer. However no set up info was sent in English at purchase. I only want at this time to record speed and miles. I have checked CZcams set ups but it still dosent record my time. I presume it dosent need mob connection I have put my wheel size in does that prevent it from working. Keep the videos going thanks trevor.
I owned one for a 6 months.....now i do not , but i know from my experience what power i am doing quite accurately ....on reflection ,after using one for a while my conclusion is you dont need one....so maybe theres a market for rentals of power meters just for the experience
I been using this for over a week. I also bought their cadence sensor. I pair this with my Fenix 6 for heart rate. I'm riding a folding bike with 16in wheels. Right now speed is averaging 13.5 mph and it's say average power of 89. I compare the data from my Fenix and the GPS is way more accurate than the Garmin. The only thing that annoys me is sometimes when I upload the data to their app it doesn't register my speeds correctly. But in starva they are right. This is a problem with the app and can be fixed with an update. For 90 dollars including the cadence sensor I think it's really good. I just wanted to be able to easily see my speed. Instead of buying a power meter I've decided to buy a kickr snap or core which I think will be more beneficial to my training.
Has anyone tried to connect it to Zwift as it say on their power meter page that Zwift works with all power meters that use ANT+ or BLE, was wondering if it would work with my Rollers.
No. Because it doesn't actually measure power it will be useless on Zwift. It uses GPS to determine your speed and rate of climb/descent. And then, along with some additional info that you enter (like your weight) it calculates power. I'm guessing it has no idea of wind speed or direction though, which is a major disadvantage.
I have bought a Shanren Miles but I don’t know how to use it. We must be to buy Cadence/Speed sensors for connection with Shanren Miles? If don’t have them, it doesn’t work? Please let me know!!
I got a PM to compare my performance with cardiac rehab parameters. Conversion math is a challenge. Beyond that, the RPE ( Rate of Perceived Exertion) and cadence were all that were practical for me. More granular data was amusing, but not really anything I could use. I think unless you are a competitive rider, where finely matched comparative data is of use, coarser data is as usable, and the PM did not change what I was doing. They are all (very) loose proxies for vO2max, which can be highly variable, even when measured precisely. Inexpensive air flow based "power meters" are also out there. All generate data. Real question is do they generate change.
I suppose having the numbers is one thing but it’s down to the rider to interpret and use that data for change. If you can measure something, you can improve it.
@@jollygoodvelo Very much so, and having watched many of your wonderful vids, it seems your metrics, over time, are how you feel, how often and far you can go, and can you keep up with amusing peers in nice spots, and those are good metrics
The glasses are from Ziel, an Italian company. This is the model - www.ziel.it/prodotto/occhiale-performance-change-lab-approvato-dal-club-alpino-italiano/
Thanks for sharing this experiment! How easy can you see the stats when cycling and how reliable is the mobile app? Does it connect with Strava? This seem like a new product in the market with Zero reviews on Amazon so reassurance would be greatly appreciated
After buying a Garmin edge explore I recently found out that they are not compatible with power meters. I just thinking of buying one. Maybe I'll give it a miss. Any advice. I might invest in a Wahoo elemnt bolt if they are compatible
@@K777John Thanks. I like the details from the edge explore ; I have cadence sensors synched with it but I was of the understanding that you could synch a power meter. A friend suggested power pedals and I was looking at the vector type by Garmin. A bit stupid if they only sync with certain types of bike computers. 🤷♂️
power metering is really a waste of time for the non competitive cyclist because you will find your power level maintains an average due to the cyclist's physical limitations. there's only so much juice you can squeeze from an orange.
Wind certainly does have a factor to play when measuring power but the effect will be exactly the same, regardless of what device you use to measure it. A headwind is a headwind!
@@jollygoodvelo I think what Chris means is that with a real power meter it measures exactly what it sees so the power number will not be effected by wind whereas this estimated power computer can't take into account wind speed or resistance and will be based on a guess from your actual speed. Strava has this function so ultimately aslong as you send your rides to strava you don't need the gimmick, I don't know whether there is anymore to it I will be watching your video when I get chance on my dinner break
I suspect you're right Chris. Given that it seems to agree with the Karoo (a "real" power meter) perhaps the most interesting comparison would be with Stravas calculated numbers, especially with both a tail and head wind.
technology helps with fitness, but it can also take the fun out of riding, chasing numbers is for the obsessed, I love seeing my improvement in numbers but if I don't maintain them on my next ride it takes some of the enjoyment out of the ride. can't win haha 😄😄😄
I use a GPS sports watch. Then I can use it for other sports too (like walking and running). Mine is a Garmin Instinct but there are plenty on the market these days.
That’s really interesting. I’ve not got a power meter on my bike, Strava does it’s thing for me, but I’m not going racing any time soon. I just like looking at data as I am trying to get fitter. The comparisons with rides over the same courses would suggest I am getting fitter even without looking at power numbers. Today’s ride was on a course I haven’t done for a year and without going for it at all, I was consistently faster everywhere apart from the descents. The road surface has deteriorated since last year and we had lots of rain over night so they were perilous! Even so, a 6min+ improvement over 25km is very heartening over my previous best time. I wonder whether my pacing would improve by using a power meter though as my perceived effort was middling today. I was biting the bars on the other attempts!
I think the problem using all of those other metrics and perceived exersion is that they can be influenced my lots of other, external factors such as wind. Power is completely objective.
@@jollygoodvelo Of course, you are, as ever, 100% on the money. It's the reason why the only KOM's I've ever attempted, I only try for with a very strong tailwind! 4 seconds until it's mine! I might need a different bike as well though. My old Trek 1.5 is no aero match for the S-Works Venge of the current holder!
@@jollygoodvelo It is just arithmetic. Convert watts to calories, 1 watt = 859.85 kcal/hr. Power meters are 2-4% accurate. See www.welovecycling.com/wide/2020/05/14/how-to-convert-watts-into-calories-burned-on-the-bike/
Interesting. An algorithm that estimates power similar to Strava but with read out on the fly. Other companies will follow if it's accurate and marketed correctly.
Interesting. It would be nice to compare them on a flat road segment. Does it require the weight of the bicycle to be inputed to the Miles Shanren app or just the weight of the rider?
@@jollygoodvelo Thanks. The weight of the bike in addition to that of the rider would definitely affect the power estimate on a climb, so I thought. Anyway thanks for the great review.
That price point certainly makes me now consider the Miles. Thanks to your content I can make an informed decision. Since you’ve been using one, you don’t seem to have looked back?
To be honest, I've only been testing the Miles. Its a nice easy to use cycling computer. For my main computer I will stick with my Karoo, mainly because its what I have been using for the last few years.
@@jollygoodvelo thanks for that quick response Leonard. I was kina referring to the fact you seem to happy using a power meter, as I remember you were uncertain when you first looked into them, kina where I am at now. It does seem to be a good benefit once one acquires one, even if it is estimated do you think?
@@crapiam1gamer747 The main reason I was a bit doubtful about getting a power meter was the price. When I looked at the price to benefit it really wasn't worth it. The ones I have have all been sent to me by various companies to test out and I am finding them useful but, again, if I had to actually buy one it would be a different story. At £35 /$70, though, that is very different. For that price the benefit does start to become a lot more interesting, even if there is a slight margin because it is being estimated.
@@jollygoodvelo That’s exactly where I am right now, having seen your video, it kina makes it a viable Option for Newbs like myself. Thanks for all your responses you really have helped.
Great vlog Leonard, I have intentionally veered away from spending big on expensive power meters preferring instead to put the money into lighter wheels and fancy tyres etc. but at this price point it just makes sense, even if only for comparison with my normal heart rate based training. And it shows the temperature too, double whammy :-)
You really really need to be careful doing stress tests. At your age and weight this could be deadly. You don't race so why do an FTP test in the first place. You seem like a very pleasant chap and I do like your videos. You bring a lot to people who want to ride bikes but don't fit the competitive profile. We would really hate to loose you and your outlook on cycling.
HR response has to be personalized , and population standards were devised for specific testing, and the range is broad. It is often applied to things for which it was not designed. May fit. May not.
@@whazzat8015 Yes. The first explanation I heard of the theory Leonard mentioned was in the early 80's, where it was claimed that the "220 - age" rule came from analysing US WW2 draftee fitness data. More recently I have heard different explanations. But as you say, individual cases are unique. I'm 65 with a max HR of 185. The difference is that I have been a cyclist all my life. At best, the "rule" represents a particular sample at a particular time. My heart specialist doesn't agree with this "rule" either :-)
this is possibly the BEST/MOST USEFUL video by a cycling VLOGGER i have seen. the price factor for the gear has always been prohibitive for me, but i will see if i can get this (or shipped to ) Canada. Of course i am a subscriber!
Like Leonard I like cycling gadgets. As an older fitness rider, I realize a power meter is not necessary for me, but I like numbers and to have a structure in my training. This brings enjoyment to me, even if the power meter can't measure this.
Reading the comments, a lot of people are doing the curmudgeon thing of justifying why they don’t need newfangled stuff. I’m not sure why so many do that. It gets old.
The other thing I see is that few know the value and use of a power meter. First, we can use it for fun. How high can I make it go? Can I keep it above 300 for the whole climb? I think this product works well for that purpose. It’s for entertainment.
A more serious usage is structured training. For this, we want a real power meter. Not only does a simulation miss wind speed and road surface, but it won’t give you immediate feedback per pedal stroke.
I do two types of structured work: HIIT and Zone 2. On High intensity interval training, I’m generally trying to keep my power above a given level for the climb. I want to know within a pedal stroke or two if I’m letting off. And I want reasonable accuracy.
A PM is even more important for Zone 2. Keeping power within a band is really challenging! I need instant feedback to have any hope of success!
The value is that you can really push yourself on HIIT days, and build endurance on Z2 days without overdoing it. That enables good recovery so you can smash the next intervals.
I don’t race. I just want to get fit, get the most bang for my miles, and to be in good riding shape for the fun/reach/goal rides.
Oh, one other use: to cap the watts on really long rides. It’s so easy to go too hard early in the day and to pay for it later. It feels so easy in the first miles! By staying under a cap, we can avoid getting overconfident. Maybe simulated power would help with this, but real power will give more immediate and accurate feedback.
Anyway, good review of a unique product. For casual data heads on a budget, this could be a great solution. For serious structured training, pony up for the real thing. And if data isn’t your thing, that’s fine, but I’m not sure that anybody else cares.
if i could afford one, i would get it
I don’t use a power meter, but I do enjoy a power bar! 😆 Thanks Leonard!
I’d rather have a cinnamon bun but I’m with you!
A power nap is even better. Cheers!
The power curve doesnt show power data of a ride from start to finish in that order. They just show the powers for specific interval periods. Eg, if you were to do a 900 watt 5 second sprint at the end of your ride, it would show it at the 5 second mark at the beginning of the curve. It shows your best power for each interval....5 sec, 20, 30, 1 min etc.
Thanks for the info. I did notice a highlighted area on the route profile as I was scrolling through the curve.
Unfortunately power meters are a bit out of my price range. I bought one the Shanren miles computers just because they're cheap and they could provide me with some valuable information. My Wahoo Kickr measures power so this will hopefully give some insight into my outdoor routes.
@@cathalkenneally1614 can the sharen send work with garmin watch to give vo2max estimates
@@cathalkenneally1614 same here...too expensive. i would rather spend my budget on new kit
I would imagine that wind resistance would make this very unreliable.
Good Point. Wind variation is the main reason I want to get a power meter.
Not really botherd re cycling stats do it for fun and guess getting some exercises. But at that price I clicked your link and bought one. So something to play with tomorrow 😅
Its a super cheap little cycling computer, You can't go wrong! Enjoy.
Each to their own, appreciate the review, but it's not for me. Our lives are ruled by gadgets and electronic devices. Cycling is one of the things where I can enjoy for me, without feeling the need to perform or compare against anyone else.
and for something even more budget friendly, if you already have a Garmin Edge, you can get a widget from their Connect store that calculates your power just as Strava does, but in real time...and it's free ! It is not as accurate as a proper power meter of course, but for the not so serious rider that probably would not matter.
Hi which Garmin iq widget is this please?
Interesting review. I already have a power meter, so this isn't actually useful to me, but it's always interesting to see what new tech is coming out. Your ride was pretty straightforward, which may help the accuracy. I would be curious to see how it performs under windy conditions.
I think the max power being seemingly off could have something to do with it's picking up the initial few location points incorrectly. For instance if it picked up the first point 10 meters behind you, then you ride forward another 5 meters forward, it must calculate that you did a huge amount of power to cover that 15m in such a short time. Then I guess it would do some trailing averaging so it also will show high power for the next minutes too. I think perhaps they could improve that with some updated code, maybe a bias against the first minutes of a ride. However maybe that was a one-off issue, maybe it was just unlucky, I guess more testing would be needed to know for sure. I think calculated power works decent for averages, longer the better, but on the fly, like down to the second updates, not so sure it will work well.
I have a power meter integrated into my Ultegra crankset, but I never use it. Frankly, I'm the kind of rider, who is very much in tune with what my heart, lungs and legs are capable of doing without needing the gadgetry. Regarding climbing, I am crap at it and freely admit I just don't enjoy that aspect of cycling, so if I get up a hill slower or faster it doesn't really matter to me as long as I don't suffer the personal humiliation of having to dismount. I mean, it can be irritating when a 55kgs whippersnapper effortlessly cruises past you going uphill, but one just learns to grin and bear it right? :)
Sadly, one does or just ride your ride and not pay too much attention to 55kg whippersnappers. There will ALWAYS be someone faster.
I can recommend a formula for a power drink that reduces envy.
@Cajun Velo And expeditious
Another nice video. I only use one on Zwift. Pay no attention. Have a heart issue so BPM is what's important to me. Many looking to improve can benefit from them. I'm on the down side , simple is best . Tech just confuses me. It's the thrill of riding that pulls me. Well done Sir!
Enjoy your rides.
Thanks for sharing these power meters are expensive and this is a fair alternative! Big hugs from Chicago
Hi Leonard .. Greetings from Germany. I found the video very interesting, so I followed the links. Ordering with the US Amazon link cost €59.77 + 20.27 shipping. Using the UK link I'm told that they dont ship to Germany. Using Amazon Germany I get one result and that it cost €45.26 + €30.00 shipping, funny enough it's shipped from EMK Sports Ltd in the UK. I will just have to wait to see if it becomes available over here without horrendous shipping cost.
watched this again today.... still have not got any power meter yet... but after 3800 km and a diet i have dropped 35 pounds. hills that used to be hard are fine now. I even made it 8 km up local mountain (steepest at the bottom... could have gone all the way but out of fluids and time). longest ride 117 km. typical ride 50 km or so. beginning of the year average speed 21-22 km/hour. now 25-28 km/hr. Need new kit more than power meter though...sigh. on my wish list but the stock market is not helping this year. LOVE your channel.
I'm watching this video on my smartphone and for one reason or another I can' t click on there link nowv, so I can't control what the Actual price is. The price you mention ať 10:50 is quite different from the price in the title.
£38.90 on amazon (UK). Going on the old adage "you get what you pay for" I can't see this being much good, especially as the market is flooded with units twice this price.
Nice video. HR, distance, elevation, speed, weather, and total time are all i look at. Nice tshirt.
Thanks for the info! I would have liked to see you hold a few different power levels (100W, 200W, 300W) steady for 1-2 minutes using the crank sensor and compare THAT info to the Miles. Averaging data will always always hide any big differences.
Curious if you had to enter your weight and your bike's weight into the Miles so it could use that in its calculations?
Did you notice that crank-based power meters were dropping in price, until the large companies (SRAM, Shimano, etc) started buying up the smaller cheaper brands (Powertap, Pioneer) so they could maintain their precious price points? Ahh, business! :)
Thanks as always for your great channel!
That would be a great test to do. I may well try that. I did have to enter my weigh so I suppose it needed it to make its calculations
Power estimation should become a standard for every bike computer in the cycling industry as far as the bike computer can read cadence, slope, speed and heart rate data.
I'll get me one of this. Thanks for sharing!
The Shanren Miles estimated power comparison with Vector 2 power meter on their Kickstarter page is really not bad. This device is a game changer. This is going to be great for people who want to ride efficiently within their power zones on long rides.
Another great video, interesting as it shows with out the right equipment readings are hit and miss, so for now ill stick with my garmin 510 gives all i need strava gives me a rough power outage i may be able to afford a power meter one day after saving for a new bike first 😁🚴♂️
Thanks so much for your interesting videos. I really enjoy all of them. Your presentation and technical details of the videos are impressive. This video on power meters was great. I will try them. Cheers!
I’m a happy with my heart rate zones on my wahoo.
That does the job for me.
Excellet
The best metric, is the one you find suits your style.
Awesome video m8 as always I been happy with the garmin advice you have in a video I got a garmin 810 i find that's all I need been happy with just that but I do see the point in stuff like power
Thanks Leonard great review. That's an option for those interested that you probably won't find on other cycling channels. An affordable one.
Great and informative video thanks! Coincidentally I just bought one myself, very busy now testing and comparing to Strava resultats. One thing - it´s an algorithm and like any algorithm it will need a longer time to converge to reliable results. So comparing e.g. over a ride of one hour.
The DCR comparison tool would work a treat here
Probably. If I knew what that was.
@@jollygoodvelo www.dcrainmaker.com/analyzer its how DCR and GPlama compare all their power meters (sometimes 4 at a time).
@@jollygoodvelo would help if I called it the right thing lol! DCR Analyzer tool.
DC Rainmaker built an app to compare multiple sources of data. If this link www.dcrainmaker.com/analyzer works otherwise his page it titled “DCR Analyzer Tool Overview & Manual”
@@mvp_kryptonite Thanks. I’ll have a look.
unfortunately the frame geometry of my 2011 specialist keeps the tubing too far away from the crank arms to use a magnetic sensor.... something to be aware of.
You are misreading the power curve, it’s not the start to end of the ride but how long you sustain given power. Love your videos - really great to see a normal bloke enjoying riding his bike 👍🏼
Thanks Tim. That makes a lot of sense now I look at it again.
@@jollygoodvelo keep up the good work mate - your doing well!
The place I do my power tests is Gorcot Hill on the A435 East of Redditch. The road builders laid the dual carriageway at 5% ( 50mm in 1m ) for 1km, and there is a good 'runoff' stretch to a traffic island at Mappleborough Green.
Firstly, I wait for a dead calm day. When one comes, I get kitted up and weigh myself and my bike ( the vehicle ) on my bathroom scales.
Then I ride out there 15km and freewheel down the 5% to get an 'equilibrium velocity'.
At the island at Mappleborough Green, I turn and then ride back up the hill with all my effort between two points I've measured at 1km apart. ( 25 lamp posts ).
At the top there is a left turn filter into Ullenhall Lane with a grass area to topple over left and collapse.
( If you can stand upright astride you bike at the finish, you haven't given enough in the test. )
The rest is known vehicle aerodynamics and physics. To get a Cd, I use 4.3 sqft ( 0.4 m^2 ) for frontal area.
Ignore what he says about the power curve, he misunderstands what that chart does. It shows the highest average power by time duration, say 5 seconds or 20 minutes, from that ride. Might have happened at any point in the ride, your hardest X seconds was Y watts. What it can tell us about accuracy in this case is that the Miles ALWAYS reads higher than the Karoo and (since the averages are close) must also read lower than the Karoo for an equivalent amount of time; in other words, it's never momentarily correct, but manages to err in such a way that the average of the readings isn't far off. Now, you might have noticed on the Strava ride page an estimated average power for that ride. It's calculated using elevation change, average speeds, and rider weight (among others) and while higher than the Karoo still isn't far off. So if you want to track average power, you won't need a gizmo on your handlebar, just the Strava app running on the phone in your pocket.
Bought this on your recommendation and excited to get going. Really struggling to connect with Strava on my iPhone. Followed instructions but…any suggestions?
Good to visit you mr Lee ......I know about gadgets,bikes archery fishing etc etc
I like to know distance, elevation, avg speed, top speed ect. Picked up a cheapo cats eye computer. Does all but elevation. Two out of three ain't bad haha.
If it’s all you need, it’s perfect.
Thanks for the video. Just bought a power meter and trying to perform Ftp test. Do we need ride 20 minutes flat or on climb?
Looks like the time is a logarithmic scale, the first section is in seconds, the entire first section is 14 seconds, second section is about 45 seconds, third section is then 4m:10s, then the fourth section (which is about half the length of the third) is over 5 mins.
With that in mind, the peak I think may be the start, accelerating your mass up to speed up a slight incline, once you are up to speed the only addition is acceleration due to gravity, up a slope of what ever percent it is, + wind losses.
Its a fairly simple algo, If a known weight, up a slope of gradient, at g (9.81m/s^2) is amount of power used, divide by time to get power per segment.
remember to add your bike weight if that is an input to the computer (i suspect it is), it will make it even more accurate.
Cycling on the flat is easy, soon as you introduce a slope, (even a few degrees) it starts getting harder.
If it was vertical then all the power is overcoming gravity just to maintain position, let alone accelerate up.
Over all it looks great bit of kit for the penies.
Thanks
Ps, a good test would be on the flat, accelerate as hard as poss for 10 seconds, then stop over next 10 seconds.
Then you are just accelerating mass, assuming no wind/friction losses. Then test with other.
So, really no need to use strain gauges at all, good job from these guys.
Unless your on a turbo trainer....:-)
Yes, I was think I misread the power curve on Strava.
i guess it puts the speed to the relation of the gradiant, so if u get speed down dill before a climb, it will think ur putting on a lot of watts during the beginning of the climb
thats why the max watts is so off
Certainly makes climbing a little easier.
I don't need won , I gust like gowin for a red , not owt to break records I'm 71 year old, have you getting your new sadl yet .
Please can you help . I purchased a sharen miles cycle computer. However no set up info was sent in English at purchase. I only want at this time to record speed and miles. I have checked CZcams set ups but it still dosent record my time. I presume it dosent need mob connection I have put my wheel size in does that prevent it from working. Keep the videos going thanks trevor.
The Shanren should just work once it receives a GPS signal. It’s very hard to know what else to suggest without seeing it first hand. Good luck.
all these numbers but do any of these gadgets measure how much fun/pleasure you had ??
I knew someone would ask that.
@@jollygoodvelo pay me £50 and I'll give you some numbers. I'm a bingo caller
im trying to slim down my weight.. cut all my eating habits.. hopefully my FTP can increase.
Your FTP might not necessarily increase but your power to weight ratio will improve which will translate to speed.
I owned one for a 6 months.....now i do not , but i know from my experience what power i am doing quite accurately ....on reflection ,after using one for a while my conclusion is you dont need one....so maybe theres a market for rentals of power meters just for the experience
I been using this for over a week. I also bought their cadence sensor. I pair this with my Fenix 6 for heart rate. I'm riding a folding bike with 16in wheels. Right now speed is averaging 13.5 mph and it's say average power of 89. I compare the data from my Fenix and the GPS is way more accurate than the Garmin. The only thing that annoys me is sometimes when I upload the data to their app it doesn't register my speeds correctly. But in starva they are right. This is a problem with the app and can be fixed with an update. For 90 dollars including the cadence sensor I think it's really good. I just wanted to be able to easily see my speed. Instead of buying a power meter I've decided to buy a kickr snap or core which I think will be more beneficial to my training.
Can this work with my Garmin Instinct 2 watch to give vo2max estimates?
Has anyone tried to connect it to Zwift as it say on their power meter page that Zwift works with all power meters that use ANT+ or BLE, was wondering if it would work with my Rollers.
No. Because it doesn't actually measure power it will be useless on Zwift. It uses GPS to determine your speed and rate of climb/descent. And then, along with some additional info that you enter (like your weight) it calculates power. I'm guessing it has no idea of wind speed or direction though, which is a major disadvantage.
Happy with Strava does a decent job when u have 2 years of data to fall back love from Pakistan 🇵🇰
Really, really, really great! Thanks!
You talked about a Melbourne company that made large size cycling kit? Who were they again? Thanks 😊
I think they might have been in Queensland.
I have bought a Shanren Miles but I don’t know how to use it. We must be to buy Cadence/Speed sensors for connection with Shanren Miles? If don’t have them, it doesn’t work? Please let me know!!
Yes, I would suggest you get a speed and a cadence sensor to use the Miles to the full.
@@jollygoodvelo thank for your recommend🙏
I got a PM to compare my performance with cardiac rehab parameters. Conversion math is a challenge. Beyond that, the RPE ( Rate of Perceived Exertion) and cadence were all that were practical for me. More granular data was amusing, but not really anything I could use. I think unless you are a competitive rider, where finely matched comparative data is of use, coarser data is as usable, and the PM did not change what I was doing. They are all (very) loose proxies for vO2max, which can be highly variable, even when measured precisely. Inexpensive air flow based "power meters" are also out there. All generate data. Real question is do they generate change.
I suppose having the numbers is one thing but it’s down to the rider to interpret and use that data for change. If you can measure something, you can improve it.
@@jollygoodvelo Very much so, and having watched many of your wonderful vids, it seems your metrics, over time, are how you feel, how often and far you can go, and can you keep up with amusing peers in nice spots, and those are good metrics
Another informative video!!
Can I ask you - which sunglasses are those you are wearing in the video?
The glasses are from Ziel, an Italian company. This is the model - www.ziel.it/prodotto/occhiale-performance-change-lab-approvato-dal-club-alpino-italiano/
@@LIFE_ToBeContinued Thanks!!!
I got caught up in the power meter hype when I started cycling four years ago. I bought a left-crank stages meter; I never use it now.
Expensive folly.
What sensors does it come with and if none how do you know which make of sensors it will sync with? Thanks
It doesn’t come with any sensors. It is ANT+ so it should pair with any other ANT+ sensor.
Excuse my ignorance of this is a silly question, what is the relation between £35 and $70?
"Cue the music" - boots 'n cats 'n - boots 'n cats 'n - boots 'n cats 'n - boots 'n cats 'n
Quite! I once had a cat called Boots
Thanks for sharing this experiment! How easy can you see the stats when cycling and how reliable is the mobile app? Does it connect with Strava? This seem like a new product in the market with Zero reviews on Amazon so reassurance would be greatly appreciated
Great job Leonard!
Miles GPS that is! 😀
cool tunes! :) thanks for the info and video, interesting :)
After buying a Garmin edge explore I recently found out that they are not compatible with power meters. I just thinking of buying one. Maybe I'll give it a miss. Any advice. I might invest in a Wahoo elemnt bolt if they are compatible
Element Bolt works fine with a power meter-I have been using mine with power for 12 months now-no issues.
@@K777John Thanks. I like the details from the edge explore ; I have cadence sensors synched with it but I was of the understanding that you could synch a power meter. A friend suggested power pedals and I was looking at the vector type by Garmin. A bit stupid if they only sync with certain types of bike computers. 🤷♂️
power metering is really a waste of time for the non competitive cyclist because you will find your power level maintains an average due to the cyclist's physical limitations. there's only so much juice you can squeeze from an orange.
Nice video Leonard, would you be able to test the computer on a mountain bike where speeds and power usage are vastly different to road riding.
Interesting, I suspect that riding in less than perfect conditions (head and tail winds etc.) would seriously skew the results though.
Wind certainly does have a factor to play when measuring power but the effect will be exactly the same, regardless of what device you use to measure it. A headwind is a headwind!
@@jollygoodvelo I think what Chris means is that with a real power meter it measures exactly what it sees so the power number will not be effected by wind whereas this estimated power computer can't take into account wind speed or resistance and will be based on a guess from your actual speed. Strava has this function so ultimately aslong as you send your rides to strava you don't need the gimmick, I don't know whether there is anymore to it I will be watching your video when I get chance on my dinner break
I suspect you're right Chris. Given that it seems to agree with the Karoo (a "real" power meter) perhaps the most interesting comparison would be with Stravas calculated numbers, especially with both a tail and head wind.
@@robertquantrill Exactly. I suppose it depends on where the "clever formula" gets it's data and how it uses it.
will this pair up with garmin speed, cadence, HR, sensors
It should do.
technology helps with fitness, but it can also take the fun out of riding, chasing numbers is for the obsessed, I love seeing my improvement in numbers but if I don't maintain them on my next ride it takes some of the enjoyment out of the ride. can't win haha 😄😄😄
Yes, there is that, I suppose!
How accurate was the distance speed and elevation stats.
I just want something (other than my smartphone) to record my distance and speed. Dose anyone have any recommendations??
I use a GPS sports watch. Then I can use it for other sports too (like walking and running). Mine is a Garmin Instinct but there are plenty on the market these days.
That’s really interesting. I’ve not got a power meter on my bike, Strava does it’s thing for me, but I’m not going racing any time soon. I just like looking at data as I am trying to get fitter. The comparisons with rides over the same courses would suggest I am getting fitter even without looking at power numbers. Today’s ride was on a course I haven’t done for a year and without going for it at all, I was consistently faster everywhere apart from the descents. The road surface has deteriorated since last year and we had lots of rain over night so they were perilous! Even so, a 6min+ improvement over 25km is very heartening over my previous best time. I wonder whether my pacing would improve by using a power meter though as my perceived effort was middling today. I was biting the bars on the other attempts!
I think the problem using all of those other metrics and perceived exersion is that they can be influenced my lots of other, external factors such as wind. Power is completely objective.
@@jollygoodvelo Of course, you are, as ever, 100% on the money. It's the reason why the only KOM's I've ever attempted, I only try for with a very strong tailwind! 4 seconds until it's mine! I might need a different bike as well though. My old Trek 1.5 is no aero match for the S-Works Venge of the current holder!
Have you got your new saddle mate?
Yes we need 🤙🏼
Power meters are the best/only way to accurately measure calories used up while exercising.
Really?
a weight scale works for me
@@jollygoodvelo It is just arithmetic. Convert watts to calories, 1 watt = 859.85 kcal/hr. Power meters are 2-4% accurate. See www.welovecycling.com/wide/2020/05/14/how-to-convert-watts-into-calories-burned-on-the-bike/
Interesting. An algorithm that estimates power similar to Strava but with read out on the fly. Other companies will follow if it's accurate and marketed correctly.
Shanren claim they are the worlds first. Be interesting to see what follows.
Did you pair any sensors to the Miles meter for your testing?
haven't read all the comments but can you pair up this gps with garmin, hr, cadence, speed,
You missed the obvious power trace comparison, you could have seen where the 1000 watt spike was and maybe postulated why that happened
I think it happened when I started the Miles. It was probably the system just settling down .
Interesting video Leonard.
Have you got your new saddle yet, looking forward to hearing how it shapes up
It arrived yesterday but I haven’t had a chance to fit it yet
Hi David, I’m also looking forward to the saddle review. 👍🏻
Interesting. It would be nice to compare them on a flat road segment. Does it require the weight of the bicycle to be inputed to the Miles Shanren app or just the weight of the rider?
As far as I remember, it just needs the weight of the rider and to be able to measure cadence.
@@jollygoodvelo Thanks. The weight of the bike in addition to that of the rider would definitely affect the power estimate on a climb, so I thought. Anyway thanks for the great review.
28 degrees C? You still got the central heating on?
Ambient temp in the house!
What do you get in the box? Also what power meter did you use to compare?
You get the computer, a charge lead and a manual. I compared it to a Magene power meter on my cranks.
@@jollygoodvelo thanks for that if the unit is consistent is the key for training with it.
Leonard, thanks again for another great vid!
Love those sunglasses, could you share the info on them?
Cheers old boy 👍
Thanks for the compare. @onardmlee : Shave your nose hairs. It's cheaper than getting a karoo and a power meter ;P
Should load the fit files from both into DC Rainmakers tool for a true comparison
Send me a link for this please.
That price point certainly makes me now consider the Miles. Thanks to your content I can make an informed decision. Since you’ve been using one, you don’t seem to have looked back?
To be honest, I've only been testing the Miles. Its a nice easy to use cycling computer. For my main computer I will stick with my Karoo, mainly because its what I have been using for the last few years.
@@jollygoodvelo thanks for that quick response Leonard. I was kina referring to the fact you seem to happy using a power meter, as I remember you were uncertain when you first looked into them, kina where I am at now. It does seem to be a good benefit once one acquires one, even if it is estimated do you think?
@@crapiam1gamer747 The main reason I was a bit doubtful about getting a power meter was the price. When I looked at the price to benefit it really wasn't worth it. The ones I have have all been sent to me by various companies to test out and I am finding them useful but, again, if I had to actually buy one it would be a different story. At £35 /$70, though, that is very different. For that price the benefit does start to become a lot more interesting, even if there is a slight margin because it is being estimated.
@@jollygoodvelo That’s exactly where I am right now, having seen your video, it kina makes it a viable
Option for Newbs like myself. Thanks for all your responses you really have helped.
What's the music track used in this video please Leonard? 👍😎
Hey! You have a smart trainer! When did that happen?
November!
Love the shirt
It was from a sportive I rode in Boston a while ago.
I need something like that.
Treat yourself. Its super cheap!
Great vlog Leonard, I have intentionally veered away from spending big on expensive power meters preferring instead to put the money into lighter wheels and fancy tyres etc. but at this price point it just makes sense, even if only for comparison with my normal heart rate based training. And it shows the temperature too, double whammy :-)
need vrs want.....do i need one....no...do i want one....for me, no....but others...yes
You really really need to be careful doing stress tests. At your age and weight this could be deadly. You don't race so why do an FTP test in the first place. You seem like a very pleasant chap and I do like your videos. You bring a lot to people who want to ride bikes but don't fit the competitive profile. We would really hate to loose you and your outlook on cycling.
Oh, Leonard.
We don't *all* love gadgets :-)
The max HR information is ... not universally agreed.
Ok. I love gadgets and many other people I know love gadgets.
HR response has to be personalized , and population standards were devised for specific testing, and the range is broad.
It is often applied to things for which it was not designed. May fit. May not.
@@jollygoodvelo The main thing is that we love cycling ... and watching your videos 😂🤣😂
@@whazzat8015 Yes. The first explanation I heard of the theory Leonard mentioned was in the early 80's, where it was claimed that the "220 - age" rule came from analysing US WW2 draftee fitness data.
More recently I have heard different explanations.
But as you say, individual cases are unique. I'm 65 with a max HR of 185. The difference is that I have been a cyclist all my life. At best, the "rule" represents a particular sample at a particular time.
My heart specialist doesn't agree with this "rule" either :-)
@@AndrewBlucher I was once asked if I was a cyclist all my life.
I answered, "Not yet."
Is it just me or is $70 actually £55 NOT £35 as inferred? 😥
I’m quoting the Amazon prices, not converting them.
@@jollygoodvelo Well. As a Scotsman. This is a terrible realisation ! 🥸
I’m with you.
@@jollygoodvelo FYI currently on ebay there IS a bloke selling them for £35
Power to the people?
Freedom for Tooting!
Not accurate please try bryton 750T
No.
OK….carry on.
More power to you lol
I see what you did there!