Datto's Thoughts on: The Revelry & Luna's Howl/Not Forgotten Nerfs
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- čas přidán 26. 08. 2024
- Hey look, actual Destiny content for the first time in a month. Let's chat about my apathy for The Revelry and my not as apathetic response to the Luna's Howl/Not Forgotten nerfs.
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"boosts the regeneration rate of your grenade, your grenade, or your grenade"
so true lol
Also Hunter Doge and Titan walls everything else was pretty much grenades
As a Warlock I had blast turning my Voidwalker into an infinite super regen engine. Cataclysm + singularity grenades + Graviton Lance (and other Void weapons) + Nezerac's Sin + Revelry grenade buff = infinite charged grenade spam which trigger's N's Sin's super regen meaning loads more supers, especially in PvE and Gambit.
Also Arc Soul Stormcaller + Getaway Artist + grenade buff is pretty OP in crucible as you can have your supercharged arc soul up constantly.
I used it for class ability to get empowering rifts to do my mountaintop triumph. 🤷♂️
I honestly thought I misheard him when he just said grenade 3 times xD
Melee tonic and hammer strike was really nice
The Tripmine Sparrow kill on Bracus is the only thing I've enjoyed about The Revelry
That video was incredible.
@@ClaireDuhLune I watch it every night before bed so I go to sleep laughing.
Sauce?
Rinzler2099 y
Yo, what the heck? 😂 😂 😂 Nice vid
The only thing I learned from this is that you can shoot well of radiance
Yep me too
Same
Wait....
🤯
Datto: you should always go for the head.
Thor: 😡
This should be the pinned comment
thanos:😯
No where is spoiler free!. Already seen movie to.
@@trevorbowen1747 well I guess I just spoiled infinity war which has been out over a year....
@@ramirajab6312 I was being sarcastic because I spoiled nothing
0:17 "The Revelry is Destiny's spring time event of 2019 where you are celebrating the fact that you're alive... alright, I guess that's fine."
You speak to my soul, Datto.
What a time to be alive!
The thing is about Bloom: I don't think it helps beginner players. The setup for this game is designed for long time players, who will eventually become more skilled.
Bloom neuters both shitshots, and skeet shooters
what is bloom (im a console player)
@@parallelalpha accuracy reduction as you continue firing.
@@parallelalpha It's the thing that causes the recoil in Destiny 2 to act like how it is.
Can't wait for Bloom to actually get removed, so reddit inevitably flips their shit to complaining about getting destroyed as soon as they peek a corner or leave cover and how everyone just plays Ace because of the range and aim assist. And then demanding that bloom returns or that Ace is nerfed.
@@parallelalpha Imagine that your aiming reticle is a pinpoint. Your first shot will always go to that pinpoint. Now imagine that every time you shoot a follow up shot, your pin-point turns into a circle that gets larger and larger after each subsequent shot. This is bloom. Even though your weapon has a red dot sight, there's actually an invisible circle that gets larger and larger that's your ACTUAL area where the bullet may go. This creates a feeling of randomness, and a feeling of missing shots that you could have sworn were on target. Bloom is on a lot of weapons, but it's far far more prevalent on hand cannons because hand cannons are slow firing, precision weapons that rely on hitting head shots.
In case you weren't aware: the tonic enhances your GRENADE ability
Did you say my GRENADE ability?
@@mjab131 Im sorry that was a typo. I meant to say your GRENADE ability
Markus Arrington Ah I though you meant GRENADE ability
@@FatedCrimson I ran the numbers one more time just to be sure. It is in fact your GRENADE ability.
DoEs It WoRk In CrUcIbLe
"Looking at you, new Iron Burden emblem"
Someone should tell that to SneakyBeaver
Oh, the dude who cheated to get it? Seems like he agrees to me
you can't. he disabled all ratings/comments because he's guilty. Kimdotcom, Snerv, and others were all in that lobby boosting or helping them boost on Asia servers. Don't know how I feel about that... like, should it be a big deal or not. I don't know.
@@wwjoshdew I remember when I first saw "Kimdotcom" in the rankings list a while ago and was like whuuut? Then searched his Twitter and saw him referencing destiny and thought wow. Didn't notice he cheated it with CheaterBeaver when I saw those destinytracker stats posted.
Stewart Randall datto with that high quality shade
"You should always aim for the head." -Datto 2019
Also Thanos 2018
Curly Fry also spongebob 2017
Tonic in iron banner
Hunters 👀
👃🏻
👄
Chedy 123
Suppressor Titans: 👁👄👁
Blade hunters with Brawler on nightfalls
👁👀👁
👄
Warlocks with handheld supernovas
Why would someone complain about fast regen on knives in nightfalls?? Probably the same people that called for the orpheus rig nerf back then
Chedy 123 👁 👁
👃
👅
Be prepared to see lots of service revolvers on console in season 7 until Bungalo finds a way to make not 180 hand cannons feel crispy
You'll be seeing tons of pulses. Bygones and blast furnace specifically.
Been using Service Revolver since Warmind. It's my favorite HC in the game. I've gotten and used them all, and the rest are unusable to me, including Ace (for PVP). No I don't have Luna's or Not forgotten mostly because I despise competitive sweats, however i am working towards getting them because they've become so cancerous.
Nah Ace and blast furnace.
@@SwayInstinct ahh the infamous dad rifle..
Or just duke with the right perks so you can 2 tap
W E L C O M E B A C K D A D
Yay it's optimal boi :D
Yæť
What’s a good shader on not forgotten with a white symbol like Datto is using
I think you can still “buff” other things and still avoid power creep. By buffing other things I mean removing the garbage bloom on 140/150 hand cannons and reducing recoil / flinch on them on console. That would certainly be a buff, making those weapons more viable against lunas/nf, maybe even negating the need for the nerf in the first place since it seems the reason was because of console. I would like to see Bungie stop being so stubborn about it and give console players an experience closer to pc but that’s like hoping for hell to freeze over.
Removing bloom is a bad thing. You'r litrally giving 100% accuracy like it's a sniper and now makes alot of "increase accuracy perks" useless. It should be decreased but not removed.
FrostMelee yup, it really just hurts everyone. Even if you’re accurate you’re going to get screwed by the randomness that bloom adds. I hated it on the Reach DMR, hated it in D1 and hate it now. The reason this nerf feels extra bad is because instead of improve the console experience they opted to nerf something and hurt the pc version.
Tbh this lunas/nf nerf just makes me not wanting to go for pinnacle weapons anymore because they'll just nerf it once too many people cry
I'm mostly disappointed by how long it took them to actually nerf them and that I'll most likely only get Luna after it's already nerfed.
So true they already crying about the recluse.
@@madman_24 Luna isn't op ppl crying about it cuz ppl that have had the gun for ages are very skillful with it. It jus like service handcannon but when know how to use it then respect but cry for nerfs? Like bitch gtfo is what I say jus cuz ur not good enough to get these weapons jus IMPROVE your gaming. Don't cry me I use to suck but became very good ppl jus cry to much. This game is killing itself now. Jus getting those weapons is horrible. Ace of spears always beat Luna in a skillful hand.
@@madman_24 I had Luna right when it came out but I ise Ace of spears over it. Ace of spears is way better when dmg is active.
You mean Ace of Spades. And in Bungie's eyes Ace is alright because it can't two-shot from full hp. Luna's Howl and Not Forgotten are most likely getting nerfed because they overperform on consoles even in hands of not that skilled players. On PC they're not an issue the way they're right now imo. But that's the console players, ruining the fun for everyone as always.
I just got Luna’s last week.
Haven’t played since lol
Perhaps I should before the nerf
Same. I get why they're doing it, but this is kinda upsetting
pyroverse project
Yeah. It’s a lil disappointing. I feel like they need to take their nerfing a step at a time.
I think it was Brose I was watching who was saying every time they nerf something they nerf it into the ground. I’m hoping this nerf isn’t too bad but they should have left Magnificent Howl alone.
Just got it this season too. Dealt with it for 2 seasons not having it, and was never salty about it. Just makes you play a little harder to beat those players in 1v1’s. Leave well enough alone sometimes Bungie...
The Artist agreed
I’m in the exact same boat. Got it just in time for the nerf news. I’m fine with the archetype change but magnificent howl shouldn’t have been touched, and bloom should be removed from the game altogether.
Slowing the fire rate is totally fine but yeah I think that removing the bonus damage on headshots when the perk is active is just beyond dumb. Like Datto said, 2 tapping rarely happens and if you get the chance, you should be able to 2 tap someone.
For the two tapping I must've gotten really unlucky on console then that it happened 5 times in one match.
The problem with lowering the fire rate tho is that the weapon becomes an automatic 3 tap without magnificent howl, nerfing this weapon is hard because of the way it’s perk works and how 180s function
Yet i see people on pc two tap with Ace a lot when the Memento mori perk is active.
Honeslty it’s mostly a problem on console
E1ite Yoshi people who two tap with ace are usually the people running OEM and this one other titan exotic which increases damage if u slide into a special ammo brick
I got Luna and nf and I'm more than happy for the upcoming nerf.
Bungie is confusing themselves with competitive play and casual play yet again.
TeddyB3AR I mean, I love competitive in this game, but the game isn’t made for PvP, yeah, there’s “competitive” but there’s no true “competitive” and destiny will never have it
People who think this game will ever reach ESL levels are in for a rude awakening. This game is not balanced...at all. HCs, especially the exotics have such high aim assist/bullet to head gravity that you don't even need to aim directly at the head...just have to aim maybe within an inch from the head and you got it. You can even see that in this footage that sometimes it shouldn't have been a headshot but it was. LH has an aim assist/bullet gravity of 79, and the meta weapons like NF have similar aim stats. The less sought after, surprise surprise, have much less aim assist.
You're always gonna get the people that say "If YoU'rE gOoD eNoUgH yOu CaN uSe AnY wEaPoN aNd StIlL dO gOoD."
True, but you're not gonna get to where you COULD be if the weapons were actually properly balanced...and Bungie will never do that.
@@brandontodd5881 While i agree that Destiny as a whole isn't competitive most of the time, If you played Trials in D1 then you would know that was some of the most competitive shit on a video game. The competitive mode will never compare to it.
@@PlagueSan
Even D1 wasn't truly competitive either. Destiny's multi-teired RNG system made it so the skill gap was much more narrow than in a game that focused solely on precision gun skill. Remember Thorn? Remember Icebreaker? What about Skorris? Wolf pack rounds? Stickie nades that wrapped around corners? Perks that randomly did things? Theres were a TON of things that were not e-sport viable about Destiny.
The only thing competitive about D1 was the attitudes of the players. Nothing about the core gameplay was tuned differently to make it designed for skilled players, unlike Halo's MLG playlist. Comp currently is just quickplay with people who try hard.
@Koria Borein
Because the handful of viable weapons are available to everyone, dont have randomized perks, have fast ttks, and require gun skill to use. It's no different then how the multitude of e-sport staple fps worked before them, and is the reason why Destiny doesn't. The RNG in Destiny creates an artificial skill gap that let's less skilled players keep up with better players who were just unlucky.
In my opinion they should have just changed their rpm to 150 and left magnificent howl alone. Not Forgotten not going to be the same. I was all for a change to the weapon it was too good. But the change to 150 was fair but the butchering of the perk its self is not. Why take way the extra damage on precision damage just reduce it so two taps are possible like really man. All I play is pvp got unbroken this early this season but Bungie really shit on Luna and Not forgotten with this Change. I don’t think they’re thinking through all of their PvP changes especially with having the revivaly tonics in comp.
Especially since people are gonna complain about Ace of Spades next.
@@jaredtherock5692 service revolver?
If you get kill clip it's got a faster ttk than the post patch LH/NF.
Jared The Rock and recluse. They’re next on the chomping block. If they 100% go through with this
ᏰᏒᏬᏂ ᎷᎧᎷᏋᏁᏖ So true just give the Magnificent Howl critical damage the same damage as Ace of spades with mento Mori active
Bungie: we are nerfing luna/nf
Also bungie: *_almost stays quiet about grenade spam in the crucible_* (joke)
Not a good comparison whatsoever, Revelry ends this week.
They didn’t stay quiet though. Do your research
@@CleetusVanDamme530 bungie: just 3 weeks of suffering!
@@Cameron-jc1og it's a joke buddy.
@@iam_FLAME or 3 weeks of fun. Stop taking crucible so seriously and do some crazy things
"The game is so easy in pve"
24:02
Yikes no need to pull out the wmds
No emblem F
Damn that shit hurted
Don’t have either gun but disagree with the removal of the headshot bonus, if you can outplay someone and two tap then you deserve it
I don’t even have Luna’s or nf but I’ll say if you have the skill to go and get those weapons you deserved to be rewarded I don’t care if you outgun me people shouldn’t play crucible if they’re going to complain basically that people are too experienced
Now give us bad Juju, twilight garrisons, and more catalyst
daniel dragotti shut up 😂
bad juju is ass
Nope,stop asking for returning exotics,we should want new exotics that are actually fucking good.....AND if there should be a exotic the bring back then it should be fucking hawkmoon😂😂😂😂
Monte carlo? The only exotic i miss
@@blooBerry371 we want old exotics because every single new exotic is bland, or just suck. Bungue shoyld have brought back every exotic AND new ones.
Now that you mentioned hawkmoon
GIVE IT BACK BUNGIE GIVE ME BACK MY BABY
just a few more weeks brotha, just a few more weeks...
No more handcannon please
I NEEEEEEEEEEED NECROCHASM BACK
Good players: *are good*
Bungie: Wait, that's illegal
Good players should win on skill alone, not because they have access to power that nobody else does
Everyone has access to these guns, i hated fighting them so I got them and used them better. Get good to win. It isnt hard to outrange these guns with a pulse rifle or even ace of spades
Nick Gerjevic If a player isn’t skilled, Not Forgotten is just like any other 180rpm hand cannon. You can counter them easily. If they are skilled however, they avoid situations where they get countered with positioning etc and can use NF well and deserve the benefits from it imo
@@PinkyMan I feel like if that's true people wouldn't be complaining about it as much as they are, and Bungie wouldn't have seen fit to nerf them
@@shmitty6905 but it puts up a huge barrier to casual and new players. They won't have put in the hours yet and so their PvP experience involves getting farmed, not because they're worse but because they don't have a gun
Good take on pinnacle weapons. I agree that taking away the 2 tap potential is unnecessary.
For me the problem is with the terrible match making within Competitive. If they had a more robust skill based / rank based match making system, getting the weapons would be harder and then they would only be used in a match of players of the caliber able to either a, get the weapon, or b, compete against player who themselves have the weapon. The fact new players come across Luna’s in guardian and brave ranks is absurd. If the lack of a matchmaking system is down to player count, then more needs to be done to attract players (other than pinnacle weapons), such as SANDBOX CHANGES MORE THAN EVERY 6 MONTHS
Jonny Shaw I don’t even care if they didn’t do sandbox changes as long as bungie just have us 4 good maps and removed control as it’s a stupid game mode the worst team can win just because of shitty spawns for a few rotations
@@frasergriffiths1151 I hate getting control 80% of my PvP game mode. Also, can iron banner please be something else instead of control as well? Like is that the only thing Bungie can do with IB? Its fuckin annoying
I think Datto hit the nail on the head when he said the skillful gamers earned their L/NF in competition then immediately decamped to Quickplay to stomp lower skilled gamers. I don't see where they're demonstrating their own skill in that. The potential is to improve matchmaking (too many mercies lately and being dropped into lobbies of 40+ kill players when I'm managing 15), or outlaw tie pinnacle weapons into comp or PVE only.
Who cares if they've done the grind to earn it, I paid my money for the game and I grind every day just for basic stuff.
I block every guardian that uses nf or lh in quickplay. Eventually my pvp matches will be free from these hand cannons.
I mean, at least the forest is actually playable
They called it the infinite forest...
And it was absolutely pointless prior to this.
It was the finite disappointment, before this.
I'm not a fan of the timed deal necessarily, however, it's great to see them actually do something with the infinite forest.
The problem is its was boring to begin with...dressing uit up doesnt help it be less boring. After I got my weapon never want to do that again lol
I am from the “thank god this is finally being fixed camp”. Hope you enjoyed japan
West Of Sunfall 7 was my counter to Luna's Howl and Not Forgotten. That 180 RPM handcannon was my baby.
they should just remove comp then, no point in grinding in comp for a just "ok" pinnacle weapon
to me they will still be good. I rate a pinnacle weapon on its power compared to an exotic. most pinnacle weapons are better than exotics (in the primary slot) which is ridiculous to me personally. The only exotic hand cannons that can compete with luna's are The last word and The Ace of spades. after this they will be put in line with those exotic hand cannons so i still believe they are worth using because they are only legendary.
This is even a problem in PVE, why use any exotic auto when you can use breakneck. I understand pinnacle weapons are a fat grind but they shouldn't overpower exotics they should be on the same level or a bit worse which was not the case with LH and NF.
Allah it’s useless on pc now. Deadass a midnight coup with worse range that can use one body shot.
Skewb you could be right but we will see with the change I want it to be more powerful then every other legendary hand cannon but not more powerful then exotics.
I hope you’re wrong about that cause that would suck.
Skweb how are you saying that when the nerfs haven't gone through? And for the record they are still PRECISION WEAPONS. As in the recoil pattern and range will still be the same, just with a lower fire rate. So no it's not a damn midnight coupe and it won't perform like one. Stop crying. The nerfs are to lower the ttk. And frankly 2 tapping people across a map with a gun that has little to no recoil and a fast fire rate was stupidly broken
@@shanecash7582 the ttk was the only thing making it good on pc. i play on pc, i only care about pc.
i have a luna and i used it almost exclusively in PvP up until TLW came back (console player btw), and i have to say that i'm not even slightly annoyed at the changes
these guns were amazing and they had their time to shine, let us move the hell on to something new
It’s a good thing they decided to let us know ahead of time. Hopefully, they can hear from the feedback and make an educated decision.
what that decision is, I have no idea.
GiantSlayer after the claymore fiasco u really think that’s happening? Bungie still thinks qp and comp are the same that’s what’s holding them back
Tonics : exists
Hunters : uses shinobus vow and skip nades. Presedes to chuck nades every two seconds.
*laughs in armamentarium + suppressor grenade*
As an owner of a Luna's howl since season 4, I honestly am not really upset about the nerf for the crucible. The PvE nerf it experiences and the Magnificant howl nerf is too much as the rate of fire change alone makes it on paper already pretty nice. Besides that, the two tap isn't extremely rare to get, but makes the gun extremly good to have in teamshots. You tap some dude twice, your teammate steals the kill, oh well, next guy gets two tapped then. Its what I think made the gun great, yet not broken. RPM nerf is solid though. On console the Precision frame handcannons have been a solid stable in the crucible since the popularity of Luna's howl and the Not Forgotten. People realized that the frame type really only has range as a negative drawback and otherwise is pretty much what we always wanted from a handcannon. No bloom and high in air accuracy. That and the ease of use made even some year 1 handcannons be more popular than year 2 handcannons like the west of sunfall 7 or the service revolver ( year 1 edition). With the latter having a year 2 version, a few people in the community speculated that a god roll version of that handcannon with kill clip and lots of range could actually compete against a Not Forgotten.
These handcannons really showcased the bloom problem on console. Guns like thorn, sturm and ace of spades are barely seen on console because of their bloom drawbacks, while some random year 1 handcannon gets to have more love than they do. It showcases that consistency is so much better to have than powerful perks. I mean Thorn can on paper two tap again, ace of spades can do everything you want in a pvp gun, sturm got synergies with some classes to even allow 1 taps and yet a precision frame handcannon beats them all.
I'm on the same boat as the people that ask for a removal of bloom. I'm not the biggest fan of handcannons, but using them all every now and then makes me want to go back to my Luna. Even when I don't proc the perk its sometimes better than a Thorn. The PC community clearly proves that Handcannons without bloom are balanced between each other and don't overrule all the other primaries.
On the nerf itself. I think it was time to do that. The weapon was just too good of a primary weapons to have, because it could do almost everything, rendering a lot of weapons as pointless to have. Atleast the ones that are within the effective range to that of Luna atleast. Not Forgotten with its range pushed it even further. You got a significant faster TTK, you got a weapon that has a low effort requirement to use, its your best shot to shut down supers after proccing MH by any chance, ofcourse the two tap happening occationally. In Gambit it shined as a competitive tool for invading, anti invasion and boss dps, making even the gambit specific exotic made for this game mode rather questionable to use.
Luna's howl personally reminded me of the times in Destiny 1's House of Wolves expansion when we had rerolls. You got a gun you wanted and then ran to the gunsmith and reroll that thing until you had the god roll. It removed the insentive to keep grinding. Not a horribly bad system on its own, but one that really pushed players to the point where they would ask themselfs. " Why should I bother now?". Thats the same scenario now with Luna's howl and Not Forgotten. They can do a lot of things, so why should a player bother getting anything else in the game, especially the newer stuff when that isn't able to catch up with that old thing. Even some other pinnacles in the game are looked at and people say " yeah its good but its not a Luna's Howl."
For me, a pinnacle weapon should be the best weapon of its class and not the best thing of them all. A Breakneck is the best auto rifle in the game, but not THE best kinetic primary. A Delirium 21% is the best LMG , but not the best heavy overall. Same with Recluse, Loaded Question , Oxygen SR4 and Mountaintop. All of these Pinnacle Weapons are really strong weapons that offer something no other weapon of their class will ever be able to offer, yet they don't make everything redundant. A multi kill clip smg could beat a Recluse for add clearing. A Mountaintop doesn't have the benefit of bouncing grenades around corners, so it lost something other breach loaded launchers do have , a Delirium just shreds through adds but wouldn't be a good pick for boss dpsing when a Thunderlord could do better at more range. You get the idea. Luna did not give handcannons and many other primaries a real chance to shine in their own way.
Grinding new gear got pointless and new weapons wouldn't be able to catch up. This sentinemt was very reflective in the crucible and in comp beyond 2100 points. Just like how high range shotguns rule dominat for specials, so did the Luna and Not Forgotten but for all primaries, which removed variaty in the crucible the more people had these guns. Its a double edged problem. On one side its frustrating to die against it, on the other side it also makes the game boring for everyone when this is the only primary you get to play against.
I think a nerf was more than justified. Personally I would have kept it as it was and just change the element into Arc and let the Riskrunner be the tool to go for to counter it or introduce a solar and void version of the riskrunner, but the rpm nerf is a solid way to go too. I do hope that Bungie keeps the perk as it is though. I think the Magnificant Howl is fine considering the rpm nerf it gets already pushes the DPS more in line with other weapons.
DerultimativeOzzy I always thought of pinnacle weapons as one of the best legendary in the slot, but should not outdo exotics. Luna’s made almost all exotic hand cannons obsolete, after all, why use thorn instead of Wardcliff or Jötunn and have a gun that will almost always outperform it?
Thats the point of pinnacle weapons... is for them to dominate over commonly acquired weapons
Issue is they dominated probably 99% of all primary weapons (and trace rifles) by A LOT. On console it was either use them, or get shafted by them tbh
Kinda wish he explained what bloom was.
Last I heard it was a warlock skill tree.
It's a mechanic (apparently only applied on consoles) that makes it so that when you're constantly firing before the gun has a chance to come fully out of its recoil, the bullets have a chance of basically acting as if you never fired them.
"Bloom is when a gun’s bullet spread area increases over time as it’s fired, resetting when you stop firing."
What Mike the Hunter is referring to is the phenomenon of "ghost bullets", in which firing a gun with the cursor over a target doesn't result in said target being hit with a bullet. It appears as though the gun hasn't fired anything, thus the term ghost bullets. Bloom can absolutely contribute to that occurring with higher frequency to be clear.
Hope that helps
I actually grinded for Luna's because I heard it was a Major Melter in PVE. now with these new nerfs, itll be pretty worthless in PVE, because now to take advantage of the perk, I'll have to get two headshots, then aim for the body for ~3 seconds, then redirect my aim back to the head. With how sticky aim assist is on consoles, this will be way too much of a hassle.
I havent played since week 3 or 4 of Season 6, and I'll continue not playing.
Good. More loot for me!
@@stu7900 not really
@@thezeitos469 oh look he gets everything but a joke
Jahwan Wishardt lunas trash in pve
@@qcdoomqc nope, magnificent howl is good burst dps in pve so its better than you think
I enjoyed this event. The Arbalest is a very fun weapon to use in Crucible.
@Cullum Agnew ?
i thought the grenade grenade grenade was a typo
i slipped in my shower when I noticed it was the joke
What?
@EnderSlayer543
So... you listen to Daddo (not a typo) in the shower.
Okay.
Lol, I agree with you 100%. I have the Luna's Howl, but it deserves to be that good of a weapon since it's hard work to get, and you usually have to have a good fireteam to achieve it. I could be biased since I have the weapon, but I think it's dumb to nerf a gun which only skilled players can achieve. It should encourage other players to get better at PVP, rather than making them want to leave it.
The issue is it doesn't encourage a new crowd. The weapon outperforms nearly every primary on console and just pushes people away because in order to get it, they've got to go through it a lot of the time, which isn't fun. IMO the magnificent howl nerf is stupid, and Not Forgotten should have stayed a 180, but Luna's Howl was disproportionately strong to other pinnacle weapons, and nearly every other weapon in general.
@@drunkborb5463 Ah, I play on PC so like you and Datto said, it's different on the console. However, I still feel like since it's a hard weapon to get/takes some time getting used to, it should stay the same. That's the whole reason why people play comp lol, to get the gun, not to just have fun with the game and get rank up... If they are going to nerf the gun and make it so Ace of Spades is just better, they should just remove comp IMO. Bunch of crybabies are ruining games nowadays bc they aren't good at PVP so they just cry until they get their way. Example, Ninja in fortnite lol...
Reward to go further in the forest is extra chests that spawn randomly in the forest. Can rack up a decent amount in 30-40 minute run
Hardly worth it
I don't even play Destiny anymore.
I'm just here for Datto.
Soully Gonna be me if bungie stays on this road of “ignore the community, buff the dad’s who play, nerf the tryhards, every playlist is meyhem”
Honestly? I’m surprised Datto even plays anymore. All of his content is very lackluster and he clearly has love for doing what he does with destiny anymore.
@@shmitty6905 I stopped touching the game since Apex came out and I'm happy I made the choice. I'm happy I don't have to do something in the back of my conscience every week like Raids, Engrams and Limited Quests. Nothing excites me anymore in PVE or crucible because theirs is no story. I feel like the story isn't moving forward and everything I was doing in Black Armory felt like it didn't matter. Everything feels bland. The community fell apart. There is no coming back to it. Not even Destiny 3 can.
“It’s ok.”, “it’s fun, I guess”, “kind of whatever”...bro, I feel like you don’t even like this game anymore. Just move on already. It’s ok.
So much for bungies promise not to nerf anymore. I stopped playing as well
So I’ve come up with a fan fic of Datto and Danielle.
He leaned in closer to Danielle, her mouth breathing intently with anticipation. Datto approached her right ear and whispered:
"Whether we wanted it or not, we've stepped into a war with the Cabal on Mars. So let's get to taking out their command, one by one. Valus Ta'aurc. From what I can gather he commands the Siege Dancers from an Imperial Land Tank outside of Rubicon. He's well protected, but with the right team, we can punch through those defenses, take this beast out, and break their grip on Freehold."
U are a miracle
My main issue with LH & NF is that they aren't skill weapons. I have LH and easily do well with it and I'm not a high tier player. Recluse is even easier to use since you can get a kill with any weapon to make it destroy people.
I have It, but I don't ever use it because it is like pushing the easy button. Putting your self at a disadvantage and still win a duel is a lot more satisfying.
Magnificent howl was the only consistent way that I had to deal against supers. This nerf indirectly buffs supers.
I didn't even think of this but this is a good point. In this respect these guns work against power creep.
they need to nerf the damage resistance on super, I remember in D1 you can snipe someone out of super. D2 your heavy weapon barely tickle them.
Doesn’t everything buff supers? And the super/heavy fest that has plagued destiny 2 since launch?
got lunas, glad for nerf.
Not Forgotten was my only reason to fight my way up to legend. As someone who has never been legend, I don't really see any reason for me to continue my journey. I'm definetely not *bad* in PvP and that's ok for me
You could always get the OP Mida catalyst
_sarcasm_
If I was in your shoes...I would still get to legend just to say I did it ...that is still a incredible feat even if the reward is meh...NF can just be the shiny trophy that proves you made it 😎💪💪
I keep watching this video, just to hear you say "wasn't that the point?" Preach on.
I feel like for Luna’s and not forgotten they could’ve just nerfed the perks damage increase to a lower percentage so that people would still be rewarded for hitting headshots while also being a viable option for pve
@Datto what do you think will be the future of this channel will be? Your tone seems more annoyed and agrivated when you talk about destiny as time goes on.
trevor bowen because Bungie is being really stupid right now and fucking up
@@ballaxx33xd81 No, actually they're not
Will you talk about Sneaky Beaver? Does “no cheese” rule apply to him?
Right
that surprised pikachu face on the hawkmoon kill tho
I have Lunas, I'm glad it's getting a nerf... 2 or more people per team have it in every match I play (I don't use it) the argument of the best players are rewarded has lost it's value, there are streamers that carry people to get, people you can pay to get it for you, and people who kick the enemy team to fast track it (which I have witnessed in real time) too many people have it and I don't wanna be forced to use it to compete... there was a day I was playing Iron Banner, 4 v 4, we were winning by over 3x the score, 2 people join our team 2 join the enemy team. The 2 new people on the enemy team had Lunas, they won the game cus they just blasted every 1, the gun is just busted
Sebastian Trejo the idea that the perk rewards you for body shots is pretty stupid though
The real problem to me is that Bungie always take the easy way out instead of actually addressing the fundamental issues. They take our money and give us the very very minimum and a promise that the next content drop will be much better which it never is. I'm so tired of all of it. It took me three seasons to get the Luna's and now I feel like an idiot. It's pretty humiliating actually. Ever since D2 came out it's been the only game I've played but now I think I finally got the last incentive I needed to start playing other games and stop playing D2. If only Bungie would stop matchmaking us against teams and players that have a KD two times higher than us and make both sides have similar KDs overall, we'd have much fairer matches and such weapons wouldn't be so much of a problem. Except for the NF's range of course. That always needed a nerf.
I know what you mean. I'm in high mythic on comp, and I was in a 3 stack going up against a four stack. We had a solo queuer, and he was acting like he'd never played comp. I look up his stats, and lo and behold, he has 20 glory.
Having played a lot of online competitive games, there are two things that are always gonna remain constant:
1) You are either good at PvP or you suck. There is no middle ground and no amount of changes a developer can make is gonna make you skilled. For the most part.
2) “Balanced” is the worst myth players tell themselves. Players are always gonna figure out and use the tools that are GOOD and EFFECTIVE. Luna’s Howl was used a lot because it was both of these things. And even if you need the “OP” thing, the respite is only gonna be temporary as the community will find something new to dominate the landscape.
I just think with D2, it shows that you really can’t have a good PvP experience with randomized loot being a core factor.
Why not make mag howl do 90 crit damage instead of removing it all together?? Literally neuters the gun in PVE, and salty peeps wont get two tapped once every blue moon
Well it's a pvp pinnacle weapon. And they're better guns to use in pve anyway I don't see the issue
Luna and NF are PvE guns in disguise. They're suprisingly good against majors, ultras and even bosses is some cases. Actually I'm kinda bummed about the upcoming from a PvE perspective.
It's a pvp gun(s). They're meant for pvp. Breakneck is for pve. The perks are the way they are because that's the role they should be filling.
@@RebelliousWhale shit you right. Yeah breakneck is for red bars because of the perks. Preferably I would have it to where the damage triples when rampage is on its third stack.
@@shanecash7582 Just because its a PvP pinnacle weapon, doesnt mean its PvE use can be completly disregarded. That logic makes no sense.
Can we implement a public vote for important pvp changes from bungie ??
So people can go, "REEEEEE! The casuals!" whenever decision went the other way?
I just got it like 5 minutes before you posted, didn’t watch until now cause I was in a primal state of rage
YOU ALWAYS MAKE MY DAY BETTER, I LOVE YOU DATTO. WE ARE FOREVER GRATEFUL!
I hate to say it but the nerf literally discourages me from wanting to grind for anything In this game and even play it tbh
That’s good ol’ bungle for ya’.
If the 150rpm NF would be precision + lightweight it would be pretty dope
Completely takes " Pinnacle " away from NF. Wasted time for a typical legendary
I agree, but you have to admit that they are way out of line in terms of power.
@@NETIERRAS maybe they were, but they are nerfing it too hard, the change in its perk is not needed. and if bloom and the recoil was not so bad on console for every hc, then the people who dont have the gun can out shoot it with other great hc. the fact bungie is taking it this far all just means their play testers are.. well to put it nicely, not up to the task.
Bungie just had to remove bloom on console and nobody would ever complain. Instead they nerf shit
How about buff everything for once
NETIERRAS if you played on PC at high comp you might change your mind on this as ACE of spades has the range to counter NF whilst LW had the TTK to out gun a NF it’s just on PC ACE and LW are actually usable but on console they are honestly shit due to inconsistency. I know that I have been shredded by a LW then other times I could stand still same range and the guy will hit me once because of the guns inconsistency. Don’t get me wrong NF is very good but in the sense of broken I would say not as I think the idea of a pinnacle weapon is that it could replace an exotic by being similar in ability to free up your exotic for your power weapon instead. Maybe I am ranting but I just don’t understand the logic bungie are trying to fix the problem on console without addressing the true cause of the problem is what I think is happening. Anyway when this happens and ACE and LW still aren’t used but trust and service revolver are we know bungie made a mistake and didn’t know what the real problem was
I own lunas and am actually excited for the Nerf BUT I agree with dattos comment on the pve side of the magnificent howl Nerf. And am genuinely upset about that. I use Luna's a ton in pve now for major kills and even boss critpoints when I run out of special. Honestly it's my only complaint
I'm mad, not about the nerf per se but about the fact that Bungie keeps ignoring the real problems of this game PvP.
Like you said Datto, considering the efforts and time players have put in getting theirs Luna's and NF it's only normal they get the BEST weapons (not at all they're called pinnacle weapons). Once Nerfed it's no sense going after all the trouble of the grind.
Now, are these weapons unfair in comp against people grinding to get them?? Yes they are and that's exactly why Bungie should have made some changes in the comp playlists.
Why don't make a second comp playlist where pinnacle weapons are banned?? So one playlist where you can use whatever you want and another where you can't. Maybe create a comp playlist with specific loadouts that would put all players on par and only skills will make the difference.
The least Bungie can do now is making the quests to get both weapons easier since they'll be the shadow of what they used to be.
I really feel like Bungie could've outright changed Luna's Howl and Not Forgotten to be direct 150 handcannons, even sharing the same properties. Such as the Lightweight frame intrinsic perk and same recoil patrern as other 150 rpm handcannons. While also not changing the Magnificent Howl perk. They could even keep the bonus damage numbers. Ex. (68+68+88/131). This change would raise the TTK and would require players to aim more since 150rpm hc's aren't as forgiving as 180rpm hc's regarding recoil. They would also have to adjust bloom for console. I'm a PC guy, but I played D1 and know bloom is just dumb. Lemme know if this is a good idea, I'd appreciate it.
@Morgan Parker (tl;dr, I'm in agreement with you, though maybe not so much regarding the Lightweight speed boost.)
I was just having a conversation with my friend the other day regarding what Bungie could do to Luna's/NF (this was before the TWAB was released). I told them that the issue came from the guns being precision frames: that if they were 150's and had the associated recoil, there'd be considerably less hate toward the weapons as people would have to genuinely work toward getting M. Howl to activate.
The way I’m seeing the mag howl change is that if you can land 2 headshots, your next shot is a guaranteed kill regardless of if it’s a body or a headshot (which is currently true anyway?) so it’s now a slightly more forgiving 150rpm hc than something like midnight coup. Could have easily kept a damage increase for headshots but not enough to 2 tap your next target while the buff is active. Essentially granting “momento mori” shots while the buff is active but can’t be stored indefinitely like Ace.
nerfing LH and NF is a good plan, but setting them to 150 is enough.
Iron banner: *exists*
Hunters with skip grenades:
Ｉｔ＇ｓ ｆｒｅｅ ｒｅａｌ ｅｓｔａｔｅ
I got Luna’s howl and used in a decent amount but tbh I’m happy they’re getting nerfed. It was boring to see these guns so frequently. I’m excited to see more weapons pop up more frequently
“The tonic, which boosts your grenade, your grenade or your grenade ability”
You can have Luna be 180 on PC and not console just like bungie has all handcannons suck on console(except Luna and nf) and not on PC.
Recoil on controller need a substantial reduction in general. The recoil in D1 was fine. I honestly don't know why they made it so ridiculous in D2.
subject_17 recoil is easy to control on console
So much for the grind.
It’s good to see datto over theses months
I actually like the infinite forest events, horde modes are the best
I like the direction they took it for this event, but I wish going as far as you could actually rewarded you.
Got my NF last night. I’m gonna enjoy the shit out of it before the nerf. The Luna has been very good to me as I slayed 7k guardians with it. RiP Luna
If I had it my way, I would treat Luna’s howl and NF like the Redrix claymore/broadsword and recluse. Both weapons requires a kill to activate its perks. So do the same for the hand cannons. Keep it at a 180 rpm but activate magnificent howl on a kill. Nerf the damage to 70 per grit and 40 to the body
That wouldn't necessarily be bad, but how would it be different from a kill clip service revolver?
Forgot to add this part but each kill can automatically reload the magazine
From a PvP standpoint I would say the nerf to Luna's and NF is.. well, maybe just fine altogether. Nothing I'm particularly happy about after having gotten the weapon myself two weeks ago, but also I'm not angry about it either since it's not impossible for me to use other weapons too in PvP, e.g. SUROS
From a PvE standpoint though I'm quite frankly pretty damn marinated because that's actually the reason I went for Luna's in the first place (I really just wanted a reliable and powerful primary energy weapon since that spot is already occupied in the Kinetic slot with Breakneck and Redrix' for me) and since the Revelry started I quite enjoyed using it in e.g. the Verdant Forest but also Forges and elsewhere
Seeing how it's entire usability would just disappear as far as PvE goes makes me pretty sad to be honest, I wish they could have figured out a way to reduce Luna's / NF's oppressiveness in PvP without neutering its PvE value this hard
I've seen people do some really annoying shit with a class ability tonic and Gemini Jester in PvP.
Give it a shot. It's fun AF
@@IHadPotential Not for the person fighting you.
@@jacobkern2060 thats what makes it fun.
Ive goten so many msg on telling me to fuck of and die because i use that build😂
@@yellowentertains1204 Well, here's another. Eat Skip Grenade, asshole.
@@jacobkern2060 you're a little bitch
That titan at the end of the video.. fist of panic on on a 3v1 situation while datto gets killed by a warlock, and he tbags 🤔 Bungie should nerf noobs
It seems that the more times you refresh the simulation in the Verdant Forest, the more time you get for the boss stage.
I don't know if Josh Hamrick personally introduced bloom to the sandbox but he was certainly part of it becoming a thing in Reach and this Destiny. Maybe, just maybe, bloom will change in the future.
I’m just sad it won’t be useful in PVE, I love using that shit.
Guess it’s back to nation of beasts as my energy hand cannon then....
12:37 Holy sh!t I never knew that you could shoot enemy wells
Halo: Combat Evolved Magnum lol no one does, I always shoot them just like tethers
lol that crispy titan smash bag
one of the things the tonic boost did for me. I did grenade boost, went into a vanguard strike, noticed one of the modifiers "lowered grenade cooldown" started strike, threw a seeker grenade every 0.75 seconds, "seems fair to me"
I wish datto worked for bungie
Shrey Patel lol
He'd just quit . 🤗
They nerfed it way too much. I’m not gonna use it anymore after the nerf.
It should still be pretty decent on Console, as the main upside to the weapon was the fact that it was easy to use as both a 180 with the ability to 2-crit 1-body. It retains the 180-recoil pattern as well as the 2-crit 1-body kill pattern, just a bit over a tenth of a second slower.
On PC, the gun's gonna be pretty screwed. It's already outclassed by Ace and TLW in most situations, and after the nerf it'd be even more outclassed by even more HC's. 150's are already never used, and Luna's/NF won't be an exception. I suppose it'll still be pretty easy to use, but as you get up higher in the ladder it'll be a *lot* harder to duel better players with better guns.
If they had only reduced the recoil and removed bloom on Console HC's outside of 180's, the meta would be pretty diverse, as you'd have a bunch of other options to play around with (aka any non-180 hand cannon). But instead, they make a somewhat mild nerf on Console yet a kinda gun-killing nerf on PC.
Exotics should always be the first choice for kill time imp
The ONLY issue I have with Luna/ NF is seeing NF in less than 2100 glory. If you have a LEGEND rank weapon? That is meta af and decently op? How is that fair to people your basically giving them a free win.
Reyn it’s fine if everything gets reset at the beginning they’re rank is low that’s why you see them. It’s not a smurf situation it’s simply them not playing also I’m sure 1 game where NF is present wouldn’t be the end of the world. This rarely happens
Eli I’m talking about right now in the current week, and last week, I see it on a DAILY basis. It’s entire mountain top and NF or dusty and NF
Datto. I dont usually agree with you... but you have really hit the nail on the head.... Good PVP players will crush with any weapons, for example there are loads of videos on YT with pvpers getting high high kill games with only while and or green weapons. I have spoken with plenty of pvpers about this and not a lot of them are triggered as most of them use ACE anyway as on PC its a better option. congrats of the vid, keep it up.
I've actually been using the tonic for my class ability mostly...great fun.
I do have Luna but don't use it much except pve. I honestly don't believe it's as strong people think and it's too easy to counter in range. I know I'm in the minority but maybe it's just my playstyle...so, I don't care much either way about the nerf but if it increases variety, I'm OK with it. The only thing I don't like about the situation, is the precedent of nerfing pinnacle weapons...maybe it was necessary for the health of the game but I think, with pinnacle weapons in particular, they should be as advertised and ready to go without changes. People are human and don't always get them perfect but pinnacle weapons are a big investment and need to be reliable from the day they are released.
That T bagger lol @12:20
Bungie just HAS to persecute hardcore players to benefit the casuals. I thought Bungie learned their lesson from doing that in Vanilla...
What do you mean with that? I wasn't around during vanilla
CDM_Enigma yeah. Casual player shouldn’t dictate how the game is because they invest the least into it.
@@citr1c Content was super easy and drop rates were too high, relative to both in D1. It meant all content was universally accessible which killed any incentive to play, which in turn reduced the active player populatiom.
Nerfing Lunas and NF is stupid. Neither weapon is good unless the user can actually aim. If Bungie removed bloom and reduced in-game recoil, that would increase diversity without harming the effectiveness of weapons that I and thousands of others worked hard to acquire.
@@citr1c Vanilla D2 was extremely dumbed down to appeal to casual players which ended up ruining it, up until warmind released the game kind of sucked and it wasn't until forsaken came out that it was actually good. You could reach max power just by playing normally for like 2 or 3 weeks and it was more or less expected you would earn every possible exotic withing a couple of weeks
There was nothing to do after a couple of weeks, no end game challenges with good rewards (literally no reason to do the prestige raid, the rewards were basically identical to the normal one) and no competitive pinnacle weapons to aim for for example
The game ended up alienating the hardcore audience that stuck around in D1 as well as very quickly boring all the new casual audience
@@citr1c Destiny is in the best spot it's probably ever been, BECAUSE since Forsaken, there's been a plethora of goals to work towards. It allows for gifted and dedicated players to stand out among their peers.
What about us people who have it and agree with the nerfs lol might be the minority here but over here on console it’s just kinda bad to use any other 140s/50s grant it there are some useable ones but they require very specific rolls to stand on their feet. Ace,Thorn, and sometimes LW are just so JARRING to control
Meanwhile on console the nf amd lunas arent even that op and last word/ace of spades are extremely good
If they just removed aim assistance on them it would be perfect. Easy, done.
One thing about ace is that most players will aim at the end of the barrel because it works on 99% of weapons and they massively overcompensate for the recoil on ace. The animation for the recoil is big, but you should be aiming where the sights are pointing, not the end of the gun as most players do, as the animation kicks a lot, but it also resets extremely quickly. If you start doing this I can guarantee that you will get much better with ace on console. Ignore what you brain will default to and aim with the sights and not the end of the barrel.
I don’t play destiny (or any video game) anymore I just here for that datto glow up
Totally agree with the incentivizing bodyshots thing. There would have been no harm in allowing magnificent howl to continue working on headshots.. even though 3 headshots from a 150 can already kill in pvp, it would allow you to kill from longer ranges as well as deal with roaming supers.
Why not just nerf the soft stats of lunas and nf? Not completely gut some of the most prized weapons in the game