Dave Cullen speaks to Fremd High School on Columbine, part 1
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- This is the first 30 minutes of Dave Cullen's speech about Columbine to 600 students and faculty at Fremd High School's Writer's Week, March 4, 2011.
The speech was preceded by an introduction, where a faculty member summarized the Columbine tragedy, and Cullen's ten-year effort to capture it.
Fremd has about 3,000 students. It lies in the Chicago suburb of Palatine. The speech took place in the school's auditorium. Many students had read the book and discussed it in class, but most had not. Virtually all were familiar with the Columbine shooting.
More on Dave Cullen and the book:
www.davecullen....
To arrange an event:
www.davecullen...
Free Columbine Instructor Guide:
www.davecullen....
More on Fremd's Writer's Week:
fremdwriterswee...
Just wanted to say that I really enjoyed your Columbine book. For someone who was living in the area at the time of the massacre, it was fascinating and moving to read such a detailed account. I am an aspiring journalist myself, so I think it's great that you have all these videos on journalism today and how certain things should be handled. Great work, all around!
There's one question that still intrigues me, namely: what leads a psychopath to wanting destruction on such a grand scale?
Having read ''Columbine'' along with some reports by Peter Langman, the quick answer would be that Eric had experienced a combination of positive and negative symptoms in his 'illness': the positive symptoms being extreme narcissism paired with sadism, and the negative symptoms being the inability to feel guilt/remorse/empathy.
I used the terms 'positive' and 'negative' in describing the symptoms as they indicate a presence of abnormal behaviour and an absence of normal behaviour, respectively.
As with all psychopaths, I am convinced that the negative symptoms in Eric were present since birth. What I am unsure of is what caused the narcissism & sadism element to develop.
It seems that the most honest answer we get from Eric is his own admission of having ''no self esteem''. He disliked himself physically, which isn't too surprising given his weak chin, pectus excavatum, skinny body, and shorter than average height of 5ft 8.5''.
Mentally, he had tremendous ambition and desire for power, but because of his natural deficiencies, there was no way he could ever reach that power, and it must have been crushing to him.
So I wonder, was his quest for destruction ultimately a way of compensating for he lacked naturally?
Dave, I just finished reading your book. It is a gripping retelling of something that paralyzed our country. not to mention, something that we "knew" so much about, yet "know" absolutely next to nothing about.
thank you for this exhaustive work, and laying the foundation of how to report these things, much like what happened last week in aurora.
thanks for a great read, and such a compelling vision of an american tragedy.
Drew in Nebraska.
this is so helpful in so many ways! thanks so much for posting ... im getting over a surgery and that story is miraculously inspiring
thank you dave for talking about what had happend to the boys. I have a deeper understanding between the two
Dave, did you ever get to watch the "Basement tapes"?
No.
Mr. Cullen I have a lot of respect for you for the time you have obviously put into your research on this subject. I just don't particularly agree with your views on Eric Harris. You describe him as a textbook psychopath. Don't you think that might not be the exact truth considering he showed guilt and empathy for what his family would think in parts of the basement tapes to the point where he cries thinking about certain aspects of the event?
Thanks, B. I appreciate that tone.
I wondered about that too--thought far less emphatically, in my early assessment--and posed the question to Drs Hare, Fuselier and Ochberg, and they all had similar responses:
a) Be very careful about believing a psychopath, who are masters of lying--Eric brags about how he should win an Oscar for his lies. It's tricky, because I do believe the gist of what he's saying, primarily because it matches his deeds. But I kept a healthy skepticism about any particular points that might be self-serving.
b) It's important to look at the totality. Fuselier got particularly irritated at people cherry-picking quotes. At one point I vividly recall him getting frustrated at me and saying, "He's not the pink panther!" That is, he's not a cartoon. Even when someone is an extremely tight match to the model, that does not mean that every thought/sentence out of their mouth every moment of their life conforms. Ted Bundy or other notorious examples may have also had momentary impulses to the contrary as well. But in Eric, they were faint (if real at all) and massively over-ruled.
Fuselier in particular pointed out the absurdity of Eric's statement of remorse for his family, and his experience with "pre-remorse" as a clinical psychologist: that is, that it's total bullshit. If you express remorse in advance, you are full of shit, and don't understand the concept of remorse. Because if you actually felt it, you wouldn't do it! There is still time to stop. Remorse is a profound feeling of regret that you have done something, and sincere wish that you could go back and undo it. So if you try to portray that feeling while you can still not do it, you are totally full of shit.
He also pointed to the related example of Eric sort of willing his CDs and other belongings to friends, "if you live." If you live! I may well kill you, but if you happen to live, I care about you so much I'm going to give you these CDs. Oh, how thoughtful. That's a much better example of Eric's conception of caring about "friends," which is absurd and horrifying, and demonstrates just how little he grasps what empathy means.
I hope that helps.
One of the biggest tell-tale signs about Eric, as pointed out in 'Columbine', was his fantasies about raping women and torturing people to death.
In relation to what the OP said, you must also note that it is not uncommon for psychopaths to make great displays of affection for loved ones shortly before they devastate them.
Thinking about it logically, if you were truly bothered about the effect your actions would have on your loved ones, would you go through with them?
Obviously Eric did care for his family, but as mentioned in the book, with psychopaths ''the signals come through dimly''.
I think the closest he came to genuinely feeling sorry was on the final segment of the basement tapes where he says to his parents ''I'm sorry, ok? I can't help it.''
I recommend Mr Cullen's book to anyone who has doubts about the killers and their motivations. It explains everything to the last little detail.
And thank you Mr Cullen for taking the time to reply to the comments here.
I'm about to finish up my second reading of Columbine and needless to say, I enjoy your work a great deal. I have found most of it to be very factual, but what can you tell me about the accounts by people like Brooks Brown who attest to bullying actually happening to Eric and Dylan? This isn't an attack to put you on the spot but that just seems to be the main critique of your book I hear from the public.
Thanks. If you check out the new epilogue, I address that in some detail. (It's in any large bookstore. You can read it there without buying another copy.)
Do you believe that the "Basement Tapes" will ever be released to the public?
I doubt it. The sheriff said they destroyed all known copies.
So I just want to ask one simple thing, Actually 3 things,
No.1 Is the Columbine Book any good? I've been wanting to get the book for a while just to read about how messed up Eric was and how Dylan was, I'm actually pretty interested in wanting to read it.
No.2 What made Eric do it, What really started his evil?
No.3 Why is it that Eric's parents haven't come out and spoken about Eric's childhood and how they felt when they heard about their son being involved in the Massacre?
These are just the things I have been really, really wanting to know. Someone please help me!
+J man thee nirvana FAN!!!!!!!!!!!! Well, I'm biased, but the critics reviews and nearly all the feedback I get it very positive.
You can see a capsule of #2 at my site, or my book trailer video. The book covers it in detail.
The Harris family has not discussed their silence.
Hey Dave, I'm a huge fan of your book!. I was wondering did the shooters have a class with Rachel Scott? I remember reading in Rachel's Tears that she was offended by one of the projects that they did. Is that true?
+bstove24 Thanks. I can't recall that detail. I believe I have a bit in the book where Dylan was soundman at a talent show or performance where Rachel's tape stopped. That's the only documented interaction I recall, but Rachel was not a big focus of my book and it's been ten years since I wrote that section, so I can't swear to it.
What was the name of the class that the boys took where they turned in their video projects?
+bstove24 I think it's in my book.
(You must have an amazing faith in my memory if you think I can recall exact titles of trivial details ten years later. :) Wait ten years and see which details from your bio class you recall.)
Lol thanks for answering my questions.
I really don't understand why so many people seem to not like this guy, at least in terms of all of his videos having rampant dislikes. It must be the all of the Eric and Dylan admirers who are bullied themselves and have these grandiose fantasies in which these guys are actually heroes.
DVJFan Like what? I'm currently reading his book but not too far into it.
DVJFan Yeah I was planning on reading all 3 of them just to compare perspectives, because with something like this you know there will be some biases.
But if I may ask, what exactly does Brooks Brown say in his book that invalidates Cullen's anti-bullying stance? How do we know for sure Brooks isn't exaggerating or making things up either? I personally was skeptical of the whole "ladies man" thing myself as I've been reading it though.
There's just so much conflicting information that I want to get to the bottom of it as much as I can.
DVJFan They were? I can still see them.
I'm pretty sure Dylan had Borderline Personality Disorder. He had moments of very impulsive rage, no self identity, was reckless in his usage of alcohol and how he conducted himself.
I have a few Columbine related questions I believe you'd be able to answer:
Were the claims that Eric called for people in the library with white hats to stand up legitimate? Related: Was anybody actually asked if they believed in God? I've heard it was Cassie Bernall, I've heard it was a survivor and I've even heard Rachel Scott's father thinks she said it.
Judging from both killer's journals (or any other evidence) was there a definite moment where the idea of the massacre was expressed from one to the other? Like, was there a eureka moment where one said "we should do this!"?If so, when?
Last one: Have you ever spoken to Sue Klebold?
Thanks, I know people who say your book is in their list of favorites. I can't wait to read it.
+eric robinson Thanks.
No, we can't tell from the journals when or how the killing was first discussed. They didn't write it down. From Dylan, we see an evolution, where he's toying with it for a long time, but we're only getting tiny fragments written down.
The hats, I can't recall exactly on that one, but I don't think that one turned out to have much credence. And bigger pic, they said things about all sorts of groups there, and no one group stood out.
Yes, I spoke to Sue at length several times last year--some phone, mostly email. She thanked me in her acknowledgments.
Does anyone know where Part 2 is to this? Just getting good.
im goin to colorado littleton
this is super cool
This guy is a good writer.
Thanks.
He is sooooooooooo hot........
Ah, thank you Kara. That sure made me smile. :)
Hey could you answer a question for me?
I try to answer as many questions as I can.
Dave Cullen well I mean I'm trying not to be rude because I'm going to be honest I don't particularly like you. However, my question was how do you explain Eric feeling remorse and admitting it in the basement tapes and crying but yet he's a "psychopath". Sure, he had issues, but I doubt he was a psychopath
Trying to determine a person's mental condition based on 1 or 2 moments is not an effective strategy.
You may doubt he's a psychopath, but all the experts brought into the case by the FBI reached the opposite conclusion.
Where's the rest of this talk?
+InYourFaceNewYorker Thanks for your interest. I don't think the Q&A was ever uploaded. It's long gone now. Sorry. (I updated the text to remove reference to a part 2 coming.)