Garrett vs Melett -Turbo Fault Diagnosis PSA Engines, Turbo Underboost, Peugeot, Citroen, Mini etc
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- čas přidán 21. 02. 2021
- I take a look at how to diagnose and fix a faulty turbo on all the 1.6 HDi engines used by Citroen, Ford, Mazda, Mini, Peugeot and Volvo. I DO NOT recommend a new Melett.
Get a recon Garrett !
A look at how to check your vacuum and if you should buy a new Melett turbo or a recon Garrett turbo.
The pressure mentioned was 5 & 6 Kilopascals, it seems it should be 50 or 60.
New Melett from £250 plus vat. (not recommended) They clearly don't test their actuators.
Reconditioned Garrett from £253 Plus vat & they want your old one. (I recommend this)
I'm not sure of the correct 'minimum' vacuum pressure required for the actuator.
Without variable geometry or with a faulty vacuum system, this turbo will not spin up and give you extra boost until you reach 3000 rpm.
I wasn’t given a choice of a new Melett turbo or a reconditioned Garrett turbo.
That was my first mistake, not asking or going to another specialist.
The text about the 'turbo agent' should have read -
'In fairness to the turbo agent, they were helpful but only too ready to blame my car; even after supplying a faulty Melett turbo at £300 they still blamed my car'
They fitted my 12 year old 'Garrett' vacuum controlled actuator and sent me on my way.
They kindly sent me a new vacuum controlled actuator 18th March 2021, I connected it to my car and saw it has full travel with my 5 ish kp of vacuum.
I have less power at low RPM compared to the 12 year old Garrett.
Really informative vid. Watched a few of these and ordered a rebuild kit. Just a DIYer myself but deffo a lot more confident after watching this 👊
Thank you Marty for your feedback, I'm pleased it helped.
Great video, I’m a Master technician and enjoyed your description and strip down. One thing I noticed is the old actuator moved really slow, I’ve had this before and when tested with mitivac the vacuum was good, but slow to get to maximum. This particular case was a slightly blocked valve that’s on the vacuum pump,at the point where the vacuum pipe for turbo comes out. It’s the speed of the vacuum that’s important as well. Also had a couple of “lazy” turbo vacuum control valves.
Thank you 'The Mechanic' I did see it was slow and wondered if that could cause a delay in response and then a turbo error later.
So what is the correct vacuum pressure?
Excellent content.. thank you 👍🏼
Thank you very much
I have exactly the same Garrett turbo on my Defender Td5 and I have had to dismantle it to replace some snapped bolts on the exhaust turbine housing. I notice you have a loose metal disc under the turbine; mine is the same. Any idea how that is supposed to locate correctly on reassembly? I’m having a problem getting it back together.
Sorry, no idea. I'd be looking for more Garrett videos.
Hi, how do you think, is there options to assembly this ring upside down? Does it have irregular spacing between hols for fingers and it is important to assembly it good side to up? Is it is mirror reflection or not?? Regards
I don't think there is a top or bottom and I believe the spacing is regular.
Hi John, great video. Question.. if the engine struggles at low rpm but then revs fine at high rpm . This is at the car at a stand still. We then removed the pressure hose for the actuator and the vehicle revs fine at low rpm. There is vacuum and when the car starts it's at 500mmhg, when rev it goes to 100mmhg and stays there. Is that a normal reading ? The actuator gets stuck from time to time too
Hi Foad,
Thank you for your comments.
At some point the vacuum will reduce to reduce the turbo boost, I don't know when that is.
It should always come back at idle.
Does the vacuum actuator get stuck or the turbo actuator?
I doubt the vacuum actuator can get stuck, it has a big spring.
If it's the turbo actuator getting stuck, time for a recon Garrett.
@@JohnB-2021 thank you, we took the turbo off and the vanes were stuck with carbon.
We have cleaned surrounded pipes, we want to remove the intercooler to flush, do you have any guide in terms of removal for a 2015 Citroen C4 GP... Thank you
@@foad9764 No idea, I own a Peugeot.
@@JohnB-2021 no worries, in the end we did an in place flush.. and well the intercooler was full of oil
Nothing short of genius.
Thank you kind sir.
did you figure out the problem with the old one I'm trying to sort a Volvo same setup as this it came to me with the DPF 100% blocked fitted a new one and filled additive tank reset it all with scanner live data showed it needed a new DPF preshor sensor as well changed that it's running sweet but no boost checked all the usual stuff leaking pipes etc and changed the vacuum control valve I'm thinking it's either the same problem you had or the air intake or EGR is stuffed up
When you start the engine, does the actuator travel to the end stop?
If it does, that shows your vacuum is ok.
I understand the carbon on the variable geometry gets hot and causes it to stick.
The car has never showed a turbo underboost since fitting the new turbo.
@@JohnB-2021 yes it's all doing what it should
Hi
I have a Mazda3 1.6 diesel which uses this same turbocharger (GT1544V) and had two fitted (both reconed garrett) where both failed within a week and my garage doesnt know whats causing it to fail. I read online it could be a number of things and was wondering if you have any knowledge on this? I've spent a lot of money on my car and would like to have it run again
Oil and a lack of it is the main cause of turbo failure.
Low pressure caused by a partially blocked sump pick-up pipe maybe.
@@JohnB-2021 do you know if this is repairable and the success rates or is it a case of when the turbos gone the first time then it can’t be fixed/won’t last? I read in the technical service bulletin there’s a list of things to change/check when installing a new turbo but I wouldn’t want to pay hundreds of pounds when it doesn’t solve the problem. I also read the new turbo fails due to dirty oil/carbon build up due to lack of servicing and/or failing injector seals and the oil in my car is black and the engine bay around the injectors looks to be covered in carbon. How difficult is it to clean/remove carbon from the engine?
@@Highran56 You need to look at the last turbo that failed.
Does the turbo shaft spin freely?
If not, it's an oil problem.
Odd that a garage can't understand why your turbo failed.
I doubt it is a carbon problem.
'dirty oil/carbon build up due to lack of servicing' is correct, sludge or carbon in the oil pipes and sump.
@@JohnB-2021 i just checked and turbo shaft spins although the impeller does have slight marks/damage. is this an indication of a foreign object in the turbo?
@@Highran56 if the damage is on the outer edge where whole assembly has rubbed the outside edge you have an oil problem. If damage is towards middle then yes, foreign object I guess.
Hi John. I want to ask a ques for you. We have a Volvo S80 1.6 diesel, it uses this exact same turbo charger. Our issue is when we start engine, everythings is normal until 20-25 mins of usage and engine get hot. After engine gets hot, its start shaking and not a lineer acceleration between 1750-2000 rpm/min. Vac selonoid was not working 2 weeks ago, so we change it and we thought it was about it but the issue continues now.. I am doubtful of a wastegate or actuator issue, can you help me what the issue could be please?
What year is the car and how many miles?
@@JohnB-2021 2011- 200000 miles
@@jackblack-re7bk The turbo starts working at low rpm, probably less than 1000 rpm. Is it always ok up to 1750 rpm?
Is it always ok when cold?
@@JohnB-2021 yes sir always works nice on cold starts. After 25-30 mins of usage then its starts like someone pull-push the car from behind between 1750-2000 rpm while accelerating
@@jackblack-re7bk Have you ever replaced your exhaust DPF?
What would you says better of the both?
I have lost power at 1100 revs.
The car would go up a hill in 4th gear on cruise at 30 mph.
Now it won’t.
I have to be doing about 33 to 34 mph which is 200 or more revs.
I wish I bought a refurbished Garrett
@@JohnB-2021 oh you have a melett before?
@@JOE-hu9qk my original was the turbo I stripped down in this video. The supplier specialist only offered the new Melett
Nice video john hope you keeping well i did try call you the other week but i must have copied your number down wrong, anyway have a good 21
Thank you Steve.
Is your car fixed? What was the problem and what was the solution?
Yes the car is fixed.
I'd get a turbo underboost when over 3000 rpm.
This Melett turbo does not have the same low end boost at 1200 rpm.
@@JohnB-2021 I wish my turbo was easily accessible
You're moving an old and decrepit spring with 4.8kpa because it's no longer got the same pressure it once had when new. The new spring which is completely at spec will take the full 6kpa to move it. It looks like you have a lazy vac pump, best way to check is get the vacuum gauge directly on the pipe from the vac pump. In any event, the garage has changed the turbo when that was definitely not the fault. The soft spring the ECU has pid control to adjust for the difference in spring pressure and the stop screw on the turbo is there to limit its movement.
Do you work for Melett or something?
10 kp would not operate the new actuator because it was broken.
Using your theory, the actuator is either on or off.
You’re wrong!
They are proportional actuators, a vacuum of less than 5 kp will also move the rod otherwise it would be full boost or nothing.
PS, you clearly didn't listen to what I said in the video.
The intermittent under-boost has gone, no more faults stored in 200 + miles of driving.
The variable geometry was probably sticking when hot, as I mentioned in the video.
The Melett turbo needs a few hundred more revs compared to the Garrett so in my opinion is not as good.
i.e. less torque at 1000 or 1100 rmp.
@@JohnB-2021
You could try shortening the actuator rod with the round nut to improve low speed response if maximum boost at speed isn't reached.
Now, with regards to the Melett agent, did he account for local atmospheric pressure? It matters.
His Garret turbo was working with his vacuum pump - Mellet turbo not.
Problem is not in his vacuum pump.
It's a real shame that most professional car mechanics lack knowledge to diagnose simple turbo actuator issues
Yes, And my car is still going strong.
Thank you Aman A for your comment.
Did the agents vacuum gauge have a calibration certificate? If not any argument he had is invalid from the start 😂
No idea.
And my car is still going strong with no underboost except I have lost power at 1300 rpm, I now need 1500 rpm to get up a hill on cruise.
Just like an engine a turbos life blood is its oil....if you only change oil every year or 10 thousand miles you will eventually destroy your turbo...clean oil is not just for bearings and turbos it keeps seals supple too and with that keeps leaks at bay...my 1.6 hdi has 310 thousand miles and no leaks or engine problems and it's on it's original turbo because with good quality oil I change it every 3 thousand miles.....
wow, If you change the oil at the manufactures recommended interval, you could afford to have a new turbo fitted every few years.
That turbo is not spinning as freely as it should.
Good to know, thank you for your comments.
The vacuum is too weak for sure. The actuator should reach its end position at -0.6bar approx.(which is almost 50cmHg) and must reach it almost instant. Even your old unloaded actuator moves slow. When is connected to the vanes and when the engine is runnning the actuator is even more loaded and because of that the vacuum on the vacuum pump must be at least -0.8bar. The job of the VNT valve is to modulate the vacuum correctly to the actuator.
“The vacuum is too weak for sure”
Too weak for what because my car performs flawlessly since fitting the new turbo?
I purchased a Haynes manual to ascertain the correct vacuum specifications only to find it wasn’t mentioned.
The Peugeot forum quote 500 mBar.
I know the job of the valve that controls the turbo, I show it in the video.
@@JohnB-2021 😅👨🏫💩👍