Today we're gonna talk about why getting that dead-on accurate color for your model kit really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Thoughts? Put them down below.
I spent 7 years of my life as a professional Airbrush artist painting mostly motorcycles. I have had many classes with actual paint manufacturers such as House of Kolor and PPG. They try to keep their colors the same, but they can't always have the exact color from batch to batch. Also we got some powder coat samples from a DOD vendor to match "dessert sand". They gave us 2 samples that were noticeably different. The DOD gives them a range and if it is within that range it is good to go. Furthermore as soon as paint sees sun it will start to fade and change color. The darker and older the color the more noticeable it will be. Whereas white cars can almost always just use a factory mix for about 5 to 8 years a red car will need to be mixed for that car after one year. We sprayed a neon orange bike and it was fading in the booth! There was one spot where sunlight was coming in and all the parts in sun were 4 shades paler. If you want to color match something real, the best thing to do is spray outs like done in this video. Figure out what color looks the closest to what you want and repeat that process. Some real things are only the color they are because the specific color of layers used. I appreciate this video a lot.
Yes Olive drab. I worked for the Military and each summer we would patch paint the vehicles. One year the plan was to hand paint all of the Land Rover. So off we went to the stores got a few tins of paint then set to work 2 people on each Land Rover. When we got to the last few. we then helped each other. The last couple was a real treat, just get it done asap.8 0f us with our own tins of paint attacking the vehicle. Job done. Once they were dry however some of them were slightly different shades than others depending on who painted them. Then you could see the ones where we chipped in with one half looking different than the other half. But the last two each panel was a different shade. So even from the same batch you can get differemt shades. Great video though
Good video. For me, it's just a hobby, if it says olive drab on the bottle, that's good enough for me. Life is way to short to worry about such insignificant things.
A worthwhile rant and sensible message. Thank you, not at all pointless. Pointless is arguing shades/hues/saturations of variable, mass produced, low quality paints from 75+ years ago that were functional, not aesthetically pleasing.
It gets even more complicated when you throw in scaling and the fact that the same paint can look completely different depending on lighting conditions so definitely not something to stress about too much! If it looks right it is right is a good mantra!
I came to the conclusion to not stress over exact colour matches a while ago. What I did was try all the different types a paints in my airbrush until I found one I can get consistent results with and then buy the whole range of colours. I use the correct thinners and apply a quality undercoat this allows me to get very good consistent finishes. Good message well put Brett.
What a fantastic video Brett. I totally agree. I used to stress about getting the exact match of paint to what was really used. I primarily build WW2 armour and aircraft and have fallen in to the dunkelgelb and RLM02 argument. But when researching you realise the variance that occurred in actual planes and vehicles. Yes AK real colors match their colours to years they were produced that affects the final colour and hue. I use them purely because they go down nice when thinned with Mr color lacquer thinner.
Color matching is one of the extra curricular issues that we will all run into as modelers. The more we do, the more money we save on paints we don't need. I tried so hard to get the color accurate on an A6M2, the first model I built after 30 years. Since then I'm on my 4th model and mixing colors is one of the most enjoyable parts of the hobby. As a kid I used Testors and my fondest color of theirs was olive drab. Now that I'm building my first US aircraft and using Vallejo acrylics I just got done color testing last night and came up with an olive drab that's almost perfect. They might make a color called "olive drab", I didn't even look. I'm too cheap to buy a ~$10 little bottle of paint more than too lazy to make it myself. Great video and message: Don't ruin the hobby for yourself by getting too strict over color matching.
Firstly thank you for making the effort on this most people glaze over when I say that what you see is not always "the truth", especially when you are looking an object "on a screen". The science behind this stuff is very technical so as I'm not qualified I'm not making a comment on that bit; the subject of "colour science" and the physics of light.....is all maths and is the sort of thing understood by maths/physics graduates when it's put on a page. However as someone who understands photography and editing on a screen, even if my balance and settings and equipment are the same as yours, unless we are calibrated to be identical, it means nothing we won't see exactly the same Shade, Contrast, or Hue. So to the fun bit, as a figure painter I actually use this to my advantage by a technique of "Zenethal highlighting", you would think of this as a form of "pre-shading". However on a figure I look at where the hilight is brightest and where the shadows are darkest, in simple terms light shines from the top of the miniature downwards. So prime and undercoat the whole figure black/v.dark grey, then with the airbrush slightly angled down from the horizontal add a mid-grey, and a final coat of 'white/v light grey'' from almost directly above the head. I now have a black and white model, over which I'm then layering very thin glaze coats of colour (in my case I use inks) which are effectively pre-shaded for me. In my technique all I have to think about is the source of the light....which does not apply to you as a model maker in most cases, but I would argue that you could use it as an idea in cockpit areas where you have an enclosed space where light only has a 'single entry point'. Yes it's a bit of a difference in thinking between me a s a figure painter and you as a model maker maybe you don't think it applies to what you are doing. I certainly think a lot of model makers just go with well if you can't see down in that space it will make my colours darker anyway, why do I need to bother. I would say that especially with 'modern equipment ' and instrument panels that these have their own light sources so would look brighter in a dark area if they were switched on, and in the case of say a 1970's radar screen tends to cast a bright 'green glow' on to near by surfaces or a figure sat on the seat In-front of that screen. It will certainly change how you see it as a subject matter, as I said it's complex.
I agree with you completely- it doesn't matter! And what colour are these people trying to match? An actual example of the real thing? The paint may have faded due to age, weathering and so on, and most likely it's been repainted anyway. A colour photograph? The colours will depend on the lighting conditions, the film used, the processing & printing. And anything built before the 30s will be in black & white anyway. Personally, I think that close enough is sufficient. I mostly use Tamiya acrylics- two coats give a good depth of colour and preserve fine detail. I like accuracy, but I'm not obsessive about it.
Well done Brett, total agree with your thoughts. Even the amount of undercoat can also change depending on the plastic color of the kit manufacturer of the kit can also change it. The control can change, e.g using a metal stirrer etc so as you are saying you and we should not be hung up on color just enjoy what we do. thank you keep going. Peter UK
I use One paint and One paint only, Vallejo. Doesn't smell and they cover just about Every color. I have Tamiya Clear colors also. Makes it easy. Use Winsor Newton oils for wood effects and washes
I try not to buy hobby shop paints just because of the insane costs, but for some aircraft I will. I like acrylics for model car interiors and some other details that need a texture, and color creating is really fun as well as flat to high gloss finishes to make details pop.
Spot on, an excellent video. Worth a subscribe! For someone who is more than a little obsessed with Spitfires on Malta, the issue of colour accuracy is a huge worm hole that I've been down and thankfully emerged from.
Excellent video! It's really something to see what a big difference the underlying color of either plastic or a coat of primer makes to the final appearance.
Right on! I use a neutral/grey primer and then spray acrylic and add dynamics with oils. The heavy lifter for me is the oil paint as I try my best to use Michael Rinaldi's approach. Then its a matter of mixing the oils to look right because there are so many more options that way, and I have more control over the finished colours. There are so many interesting ways to get the result you want. :)
Spot on Brett! Thanks for breaking all of this down and letting us know it's ok NOT to get hung up on the absolute end all color for a ship/plane/ tank/ ship. Having served in the navy, I can tell you what starts OUT as one color is very quicky another shade in a matter of weeks or months- even my boot camp issue olive drab sea bag is nowhere near as dark as first issue. Model building should be fun, it's a hobby NOT a science experiment where everything has to be exact. Come close and all it a day...
Yea, I can remember gong down to the motor pool and looking at our 5 tons. And half of them didn't match either other, they were close but not the same. I can say the same for our green fatigues and them the BDU's when when switched to them. They would fade differently. I get wanting to get it close, but there are way to many fights over "accurate" colors. Mr Color does Color Modulations sets that are 4 deferent shades of a OD, 4BO, and few others I think. It was those guys in the IPMS group in Canada you were talking about that saw them using this set.
Very good topic my friend. I appreciate you talking about it in depth. The illustration you made with the aircraft fuselage was a perfect example. You mentioned Dunkel gelb. I'm told that the true color depended on what was used to thin the paint as it was often applied in the field by vehicle crew members. If it were mixed with water it would develop a different tint than a batch mixed with say a fuel. Gasoline, or diesel for instance. So being close is good but being perfect is for the most part impossible.
Hope all is well with you Brett. Happy New Year..I do have a preference in the brand and type of paint I use. I go with AK Interactive Real Colors as it runs great in my airbrushes. I usually pair it with 400 leveling thinner. As for their color, if it's close enough, I'm happy. I don't enter my models into shows, and it's just a hobby. I do geek out occasionally on the details of my favorite tank, anything Sherman..😃
Good information, Brett! This gives a bit more credence as to why we’ll spray some white, yellows, etc. highlights over the primer….to give different shades of the primary color.
A year ago when I started my 1/200 Yamato build, I posted it on You Tube. I was shocked at how many people were down right rude towards me about my color choices.
Yeah naval rivet counters are a breed apart lol. I pretty much could not care less short of painting her British racing green with some yellow racing stripes down the hull for effect.
Hi Brett, that was a great video, colour or should I say the exact colour has always been a big debating subject for modelers, as long as iy is close enough that should be the point where things are OK, as long as it is not over dark or what ever, Tome Tamiya OD is too dark but can be toned down, I find Vallejo OD seems to be correct, but then others may say something else, now we could talk about the colour White, that story for another day, best regards from Australia
Hi Brett, A thoroughly interesting post. A friend of mine had to paint a Jeep when he was in the Army. They obtained several cans of paint and all of them were different shades of Olive Drab. What to do? They mixed them all together in a five gallon bucket and painted the Jeep. In wartime, the protection from corrosion was what was important. As has been mentioned in the comments, the exposure to atmospheric conditions and even what type of reducer was used ALL have an effect on what is visually represented. I strive to find interesting color schemes for my subjects and if someone takes exception to my work ,so be it. Opinions are like anuses, everyone has at least one.😎😎😎🤔🤔🤔
Some modellers are idiots about olive drab! It has may shades of brownish to green. I pick what looks good to my eye and to hell with what others say. I just roll my eyes and walk away!
Someone talking sense at last. A magazine i get has page's devoted to getting the exact correct shade . .what a waste of time.. they are never going to get it exactly spot on.
Even if you have the absolutely perfect match to a color, the only time an item is that color is the moment it was painted. After that, it begins to change.
Good video it's kinda silly to get so concerned with something so variable! Colours can be changed by so many factors there is in essence no certainly what colour your subject actually was.
I've always approached color hues as a "range" of value. If an M4 or Jeep survived long enough in the African or Italian sun then your olive drab starts looking pretty "yellow." It's when I see a piece of US equipment in the ETO painted Marine Corps green is when I have a problem.
There is no single correct colour but thousands of wrong ones. Olive drab during WW2 wasnt green. There is no green pigment in the colour. It was mixed from yellow ochre and black. Nor did it fade to anything remotely close to green.. Plenty of scope for variation but emerald green for example is simply wrong. The best paint makers can say is ‘we matched our paint to an available example’. Another maker might match to a different example, newer, older, oxidised, whatever. The sad trope. ‘It’s your model, you can paint it any colour you like’, is true but what you cannot then do is say your model is a US WW2 M4 Sherman as no US WW2 Sherman was ever emerald green. It’s an M4 Sherman but you have stepped outside of any historical frame. You can be happy with that but don’t expect it of others.
I spent 7 years of my life as a professional Airbrush artist painting mostly motorcycles. I have had many classes with actual paint manufacturers such as House of Kolor and PPG. They try to keep their colors the same, but they can't always have the exact color from batch to batch. Also we got some powder coat samples from a DOD vendor to match "dessert sand". They gave us 2 samples that were noticeably different. The DOD gives them a range and if it is within that range it is good to go. Furthermore as soon as paint sees sun it will start to fade and change color. The darker and older the color the more noticeable it will be. Whereas white cars can almost always just use a factory mix for about 5 to 8 years a red car will need to be mixed for that car after one year. We sprayed a neon orange bike and it was fading in the booth! There was one spot where sunlight was coming in and all the parts in sun were 4 shades paler. If you want to color match something real, the best thing to do is spray outs like done in this video. Figure out what color looks the closest to what you want and repeat that process. Some real things are only the color they are because the specific color of layers used. I appreciate this video a lot.
Yes Olive drab. I worked for the Military and each summer we would patch paint the vehicles. One year the plan was to hand paint all of the Land Rover. So off we went to the stores got a few tins of paint then set to work 2 people on each Land Rover. When we got to the last few. we then helped each other. The last couple was a real treat, just get it done asap.8 0f us with our own tins of paint attacking the vehicle. Job done. Once they were dry however some of them were slightly different shades than others depending on who painted them. Then you could see the ones where we chipped in with one half looking different than the other half. But the last two each panel was a different shade. So even from the same batch you can get differemt shades. Great video though
Good video. For me, it's just a hobby, if it says olive drab on the bottle, that's good enough for me. Life is way to short to worry about such insignificant things.
Actually seeing what different coloured primers do helps as sometimes just a verbal explanation doesn’t cut it. Very helpful, thanks.
A worthwhile rant and sensible message. Thank you, not at all pointless.
Pointless is arguing shades/hues/saturations of variable, mass produced, low quality paints from 75+ years ago that were functional, not aesthetically pleasing.
It gets even more complicated when you throw in scaling and the fact that the same paint can look completely different depending on lighting conditions so definitely not something to stress about too much! If it looks right it is right is a good mantra!
I came to the conclusion to not stress over exact colour matches a while ago. What I did was try all the different types a paints in my airbrush until I found one I can get consistent results with and then buy the whole range of colours. I use the correct thinners and apply a quality undercoat this allows
me to get very good consistent finishes.
Good message well put Brett.
What a fantastic video Brett. I totally agree. I used to stress about getting the exact match of paint to what was really used. I primarily build WW2 armour and aircraft and have fallen in to the dunkelgelb and RLM02 argument. But when researching you realise the variance that occurred in actual planes and vehicles.
Yes AK real colors match their colours to years they were produced that affects the final colour and hue. I use them purely because they go down nice when thinned with Mr color lacquer thinner.
Brilliant simple explanation, everybody should watch this video!!
Color matching is one of the extra curricular issues that we will all run into as modelers. The more we do, the more money we save on paints we don't need. I tried so hard to get the color accurate on an A6M2, the first model I built after 30 years. Since then I'm on my 4th model and mixing colors is one of the most enjoyable parts of the hobby. As a kid I used Testors and my fondest color of theirs was olive drab. Now that I'm building my first US aircraft and using Vallejo acrylics I just got done color testing last night and came up with an olive drab that's almost perfect. They might make a color called "olive drab", I didn't even look. I'm too cheap to buy a ~$10 little bottle of paint more than too lazy to make it myself. Great video and message: Don't ruin the hobby for yourself by getting too strict over color matching.
Firstly thank you for making the effort on this most people glaze over when I say that what you see is not always "the truth", especially when you are looking an object "on a screen". The science behind this stuff is very technical so as I'm not qualified I'm not making a comment on that bit; the subject of "colour science" and the physics of light.....is all maths and is the sort of thing understood by maths/physics graduates when it's put on a page.
However as someone who understands photography and editing on a screen, even if my balance and settings and equipment are the same as yours, unless we are calibrated to be identical, it means nothing we won't see exactly the same Shade, Contrast, or Hue.
So to the fun bit, as a figure painter I actually use this to my advantage by a technique of "Zenethal highlighting", you would think of this as a form of "pre-shading". However on a figure I look at where the hilight is brightest and where the shadows are darkest, in simple terms light shines from the top of the miniature downwards. So prime and undercoat the whole figure black/v.dark grey, then with the airbrush slightly angled down from the horizontal add a mid-grey, and a final coat of 'white/v light grey'' from almost directly above the head.
I now have a black and white model, over which I'm then layering very thin glaze coats of colour (in my case I use inks) which are effectively pre-shaded for me. In my technique all I have to think about is the source of the light....which does not apply to you as a model maker in most cases, but I would argue that you could use it as an idea in cockpit areas where you have an enclosed space where light only has a 'single entry point'.
Yes it's a bit of a difference in thinking between me a s a figure painter and you as a model maker maybe you don't think it applies to what you are doing. I certainly think a lot of model makers just go with well if you can't see down in that space it will make my colours darker anyway, why do I need to bother. I would say that especially with 'modern equipment ' and instrument panels that these have their own light sources so would look brighter in a dark area if they were switched on, and in the case of say a 1970's radar screen tends to cast a bright 'green glow' on to near by surfaces or a figure sat on the seat In-front of that screen. It will certainly change how you see it as a subject matter, as I said it's complex.
I agree with you completely- it doesn't matter! And what colour are these people trying to match? An actual example of the real thing? The paint may have faded due to age, weathering and so on, and most likely it's been repainted anyway. A colour photograph? The colours will depend on the lighting conditions, the film used, the processing & printing. And anything built before the 30s will be in black & white anyway.
Personally, I think that close enough is sufficient. I mostly use Tamiya acrylics- two coats give a good depth of colour and preserve fine detail. I like accuracy, but I'm not obsessive about it.
Excellent demonstration! This changed my mind on how I’ll be priming my kits from now on…Thanks!
Well done Brett, total agree with your thoughts. Even the amount of undercoat can also change depending on the plastic color of the kit manufacturer of the kit can also change it. The control can change, e.g using a metal stirrer etc so as you are saying you and we should not be hung up on color just enjoy what we do. thank you keep going. Peter UK
I use One paint and One paint only, Vallejo. Doesn't smell and they cover just about Every color. I have Tamiya Clear colors also. Makes it easy. Use Winsor Newton oils for wood effects and washes
I try not to buy hobby shop paints just because of the insane costs, but for some aircraft I will. I like acrylics for model car interiors and some other details that need a texture, and color creating is really fun as well as flat to high gloss finishes to make details pop.
Happy New Year. Great topic.
Spot on, an excellent video. Worth a subscribe! For someone who is more than a little obsessed with Spitfires on Malta, the issue of colour accuracy is a huge worm hole that I've been down and thankfully emerged from.
Excellent video! It's really something to see what a big difference the underlying color of either plastic or a coat of primer makes to the final appearance.
Right on!
I use a neutral/grey primer and then spray acrylic and add dynamics with oils. The heavy lifter for me is the oil paint as I try my best to use Michael Rinaldi's approach.
Then its a matter of mixing the oils to look right because there are so many more options that way, and I have more control over the finished colours. There are so many interesting ways to get the result you want. :)
very good info n video brett keep them coming
Spot on Brett! Thanks for breaking all of this down and letting us know it's ok NOT to get hung up on the absolute end all color for a ship/plane/ tank/ ship. Having served in the navy, I can tell you what starts OUT as one color is very quicky another shade in a matter of weeks or months- even my boot camp issue olive drab sea bag is nowhere near as dark as first issue.
Model building should be fun, it's a hobby NOT a science experiment where everything has to be exact. Come close and all it a day...
Yea, I can remember gong down to the motor pool and looking at our 5 tons. And half of them didn't match either other, they were close but not the same. I can say the same for our green fatigues and them the BDU's when when switched to them. They would fade differently. I get wanting to get it close, but there are way to many fights over "accurate" colors.
Mr Color does Color Modulations sets that are 4 deferent shades of a OD, 4BO, and few others I think. It was those guys in the IPMS group in Canada you were talking about that saw them using this set.
Very good topic my friend. I appreciate you talking about it in depth. The illustration you made with the aircraft fuselage was a perfect example. You mentioned Dunkel gelb. I'm told that the true color depended on what was used to thin the paint as it was often applied in the field by vehicle crew members. If it were mixed with water it would develop a different tint than a batch mixed with say a fuel. Gasoline, or diesel for instance. So being close is good but being perfect is for the most part impossible.
Brett’ happy new year, l’m a close is good enough’ great video.
Hope all is well with you Brett. Happy New Year..I do have a preference in the brand and type of paint I use. I go with AK Interactive Real Colors as it runs great in my airbrushes. I usually pair it with 400 leveling thinner. As for their color, if it's close enough, I'm happy. I don't enter my models into shows, and it's just a hobby. I do geek out occasionally on the details of my favorite tank, anything Sherman..😃
Good information, Brett! This gives a bit more credence as to why we’ll spray some white, yellows, etc. highlights over the primer….to give different shades of the primary color.
A year ago when I started my 1/200 Yamato build, I posted it on You Tube. I was shocked at how many people were down right rude towards me about my color choices.
Yeah naval rivet counters are a breed apart lol. I pretty much could not care less short of painting her British racing green with some yellow racing stripes down the hull for effect.
Good video mate😊 that canvas of the red tails is cool 😎
Great video-I have gone thru this with ships trying to get the exact shade of grey! Not sure it really matters that much!!
Hi Brett, that was a great video, colour or should I say the exact colour has always been a big debating subject for modelers, as long as iy is close enough that should be the point where things are OK, as long as it is not over dark or what ever, Tome Tamiya OD is too dark but can be toned down, I find Vallejo OD seems to be correct, but then others may say something else, now we could talk about the colour White, that story for another day, best regards from Australia
Hi Brett,
A thoroughly interesting post. A friend of mine had to paint a Jeep when he was in the Army. They obtained several cans of paint and all of them were different shades of Olive Drab. What to do? They mixed them all together in a five gallon bucket and painted the Jeep. In wartime, the protection from corrosion was what was important. As has been mentioned in the comments, the exposure to atmospheric conditions and even what type of reducer was used ALL have an effect on what is visually represented. I strive to find interesting color schemes for my subjects and if someone takes exception to my work ,so be it. Opinions are like anuses, everyone has at least one.😎😎😎🤔🤔🤔
very nice video!
Some modellers are idiots about olive drab! It has may shades of brownish to green. I pick what looks good to my eye and to hell with what others say. I just roll my eyes and walk away!
Someone talking sense at last. A magazine i get has page's devoted to getting the exact correct shade . .what a waste of time.. they are never going to get it exactly spot on.
Even if you have the absolutely perfect match to a color, the only time an item is that color is the moment it was painted. After that, it begins to change.
Good video it's kinda silly to get so concerned with something so variable! Colours can be changed by so many factors there is in essence no certainly what colour your subject actually was.
Washes and filters are another barrel of fish once you settle on a color. You can't win with some people.
I've always approached color hues as a "range" of value. If an M4 or Jeep survived long enough in the African or Italian sun then your olive drab starts looking pretty "yellow." It's when I see a piece of US equipment in the ETO painted Marine Corps green is when I have a problem.
the colors in scale are more light 15 to 30 % .
olive drab its yellow and black, thats it .
I do hope the ‘Colour Accuracy Police’ take note of what’s been described here. Nice one, Brett.👍😎
There is no single correct colour but thousands of wrong ones.
Olive drab during WW2 wasnt green. There is no green pigment in the colour. It was mixed from yellow ochre and black. Nor did it fade to anything remotely close to green..
Plenty of scope for variation but emerald green for example is simply wrong.
The best paint makers can say is ‘we matched our paint to an available example’. Another maker might match to a different example, newer, older, oxidised, whatever.
The sad trope. ‘It’s your model, you can paint it any colour you like’, is true but what you cannot then do is say your model is a US WW2 M4 Sherman as no US WW2 Sherman was ever emerald green. It’s an M4 Sherman but you have stepped outside of any historical frame. You can be happy with that but don’t expect it of others.