Paradox Interactive SHAMES Cities Skylines 2
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- čas přidán 4. 06. 2024
- Cities Skylines 2 new DLC, Beach Properties was released this week, and boy oh boy, is it a car crash.
It's incredible that this paid content was released when the game is in such a bad place. Worse still was the content itself, a paltry 4 trees, 6 buildings and a few assets that somehow 'redefine your coastline'. The best part, not a beach asset to be seen in this beach asset pack.
In the video I call out a lot of things, but a quick word on my piece about other content creators. They are what makes this community great and I have the utmost respect for them. My comments in this video merely highlight the pressures they were put under pre-release to not mention performance. Please support the biggest and best in the building sim community, Biffa:
His Channel: / @biffaplayscitiesskylines
His Video: • I have some things I n...
As always, this is just an opinion piece. Nothing in this is right or wrong, just a place for us to have discussion. Please keep it friendly down below!
#citiesskylines2 #citiesskylines #paradoxinteractive #simcity #citybuildinggames
INTRO: 00:00
BACKGROUND: 00:50
CITIES SKYLINES SAVED THE GENRE: 02:40
CITIES SKYLINES 2 IS BROKEN: 03:10
YOU ARE TO BLAME: 04:38
BEACH PROPERTIES DLC: 05:43
CONTENT CREATORS: 07:43
FINAL THOUGHTS: 10:55 - Hry
EDIT:
A big update from CO today…
“We see and understand the disappointment many have expressed after the release of Beach Properties and agree that this DLC felt rushed and should not have been published in the state that it was.
We have therefore decided to make the asset pack a free addition to the game, compensate those who bought it to the extent possible (see the rest of the FAQ for further information on this) and provide additional content within the Ultimate Edition in an effort to repay the loyalty we've seen in the community since the release of Cities: Skylines II.”
My original comment below…
Nervous of putting this video out to be honest… I know it’s highly opinionated which ultimately stands for nothing, so please feel free to agree or disagree but as ever keep it civil in the chat!
You can probably tell I’m quite irritated by this whole debacle, so I’ll probably give it a rest from more Cities Skylines 2 videos until I see some more improvements otherwise I come across as a proper Karen!
Thank you as ever, love Reggie xxx
In my opinion they need more of what your're dishing. I can't believe how dirty this company is. Unbelievable.
No need to ever feel apprehensive about putting in your tuppence worth in the CG community, mate, even less so if all you do is give a well-presented and well-substantiated round-up of genuine issues and regrettable tendencies very much present in the gaming industry that affect slathers of gamers. Besides, you're right on the button on every single point you've made about this car crash of a game and how the devs essentially gob a massive one in the boat of all their fans as a way of showing their appreciation of their support and vote of confidence.
Thanks mate, that definitely puts some fears at ease. I always wanted to make a channel that had some banter but always gave some honest views. I’d hate this channel to be viewed as purely negative and clickbaity which is where this video honestly worries me, so you saying all of this music to my cockney ears. Appreciate it mate, cheers 🍻
Game is Dead. Just like Paradox Imperator Rome, Empire of Sin, Lamplighters League, Star Trek Infinite and Vicky3 isn't far behind those games.
@@gps9715Thanks for saying what so many of us feel. We need more people just dishing out the reality rather than wrapping everything in cotton wool and pretending everything is fine.
The comment I kept hearing after launch of CS2 was that "CS1 wasn't good (lack of content) when it first launched, so we need to give it some time". But why wouldn't you take everything you learned about CS1 and apply it to CS2?? They saw how big the community assets and mods were and decided to...completely cut them out? The whole situation is wild.
Even that is a bs statement because yeah In hindsight CS1 had not a lot of content but when it released I couldn’t believed they only charged me like €35 for such a great game and I had to stop playing to focus on more important things in life (75 hours in the first week)
I agree and think they could have at least included the most popular ones but to completely cut it out was a big mistake. I know it takes resources and time to develop it, but I think the version that was released was absolutely slap in the face to supporters after they spent money on it.
KSP syndrome XD
they say the same thing about CK3, Vic3 and will say the same shit when EU5 comes out and its inevitably barren of content. Paradox shills are braindead
I hear that a lot and I honestly think people who say that are too young to remember when CS1 came out. The only issue I remember people having with CS1 was traffic jams, people were used to the SimCity series which estimated traffic, but CS1 actually had cims going out on the road individually.
But I don't remember CS1 being buggy and crashing. Plus it had asset mods from the start.
The game is technically in a playable state as long as you don't try to play the game.
As long as you dont take it off pause.
Reminds me of that one meme about the concrete foundation with the exposed pipes and walls missing, and it says "Full price Paradox house (they'll fix it later)". That definitely seems to be the mentality of a lot of fanboys. It's okay to release an unfinished project as long as they fix it later with DLC.
@@Thingsyourollup But don't leave it on pause too long, or it will crash XD
Doesn't make sense. Unless you are trying to be funny, but it's not since it is not original.
The same ceo Mariina Hallikainen who called fans "toxic" also said:
"we will not release new paid content for city skylines 2 before the outstanding performance issues are fixed", CO word of the week #2, 6/11/23
LOL... I wonder how long she'll regret ever making that "toxic" comment. The irony is that her very statement on that ended up being the ultimate example of "toxic" handling of Public Relations.
She needs to be replaced at this point, if not earlier.
Very sorry but I've not had perfomance issues for a long time
Yeah, the performance issues are fixed. Idk what you’re bitching on about
I don't know nearly enough about contracts and how developer and publisher interact to have an educated opinion on that, but one thing to keep in mind: she's CEO of Colossal Order who make the game, not Paradox who publish it. Some people (who might know the industry way better than I do) have pointed out that Paradox might be contractually obliged to publish "a" DLC for the people who bought the Ultimate Edition. It might thus not have been CO's decision at all to publish it, but they might have in turn be contractually obliged to give Paradox what they want.
That of course doesn't make that "DLC" any better, especially for that price, it doesn't justify the state of the game either and I don't want to defend that. I myself have switched back to CS 1, at least for now until asset modding becomes available. But the whole DLC debacle might not have been (entirely) her fault.
Also, I think her "toxic" comment wasn't addressing the community as a whole but some members who insulted or outright threatened the dev team. In which case I think it was justified to point that out.
On point with this video man, I'm admin for Biffa and seeing him having to deal with Paradox has been a real test of patience, I can only imagine how scared of Paradox smaller creators must've been thinking their livelihoods could be cut off by breaking NDA or badmouthing the game.
He should be ashamed of himself accepting their dirty money in the first place. Biffa lost any credibility he had when he became an extension of Paradox's marketing department.
@@ThePrimeMinisterOfTheBlock what money? He didn’t get paid for it…
@@MrNeedsare you serious? He didn't get paid for his early access reviews?
🍿Don't mind me, just wanted to make a reply so I can see this convo out 😁Oi CG, I subbed, you vid good.
@wobblyboost1582 thank you kindly… praying you enjoy the other content too! Cheers to you mate
Perhaps "four palm trees" will gain a similar status, at lest among fans, like "horse armour" among games more widely.
I see a new meme in the making xD
They're not even well designed.
We have - get this - FOUR whole palm trees! We're not making this up, no need to thank us. You asked and we delivered! That's right, no jokes, FOUR PALM TREES!
@@Nameless_Individual - and they are so good, only people with this dlc can have them! For the rest, it's just going to screw with the maps xD
Not gonna lie, you ate with this. Solid critique and the little detail of the footage of sewage treatment plants and garbage dumps at the end was top tier. Definitely deserve more views/subs.
Thank you so much, especially from someone as established as yourself. Appreciate the comment!
"You ate with this""
That's a first for me seeing that phrase. That honestly looks like a statement we would have used in the early 2010s like: "You ate shit with this."
@@Unethical.Dodgson Heh, that's exactly what I read it as well initially.
Omg, Diane. My fiance absolutely loves your videos on Tiktok.
Same, I loved this review, honest and direct. Bravo @cockneygamer you have a new subscriber!
Greed.... simple greed. Give me your money, but I won't deliver quality... greed is an illness.
Greed. A virus, created by a virus. Humans.
And you can bet that they took mods to their own platform to try to sell them later on/ make some money off them
Absolutely, There was a time when quality was a priority for companies, but it seems those days are long gone. We need to take a stand. If we collectively stop purchasing subpar products, perhaps then companies will realize the importance of genuine quality. Unfortunately, as long as people continue to buy these inferior products, companies have no incentive to change their practices. It’s truly disappointing. As for me, I'm choosing not to purchase this one. I’ll just stick to playing CS 1
Da, comrade.
"As smooth as a bulldog chewing a wasp" cracked me up big time. Nice one.
I liked the chocolate teapot statement!
Played on release, Un-installed. Played after a few "updates", un-installed again. Played at dlc drop, un-installed again. Guess I'll try again next year.
It is still sitting on my drive wasting those precious Gigabytes
I made the mistake of eating all the pre-release hype, but fortunately, I didn't have the discretionary funds available to purchase. So I'll do what I did with CS1, buy it 3 years after release when modders have fixed the game, and it's on Steam Summer Sale.
Optimistic to assume it'll be materially better in a year.
When they don't even understand their own simulation well enough to fix the high school vs elementary problem, I have zero confidence in them being able to make any fixes that matter.
Pretty rich to say it will hurt the modding community when they didn't even include modding support.
Beachfront Properties DLC:
Hype: Assets for a fantastic beachfront community
Reality: No beach sand, four palms, and a bunch of properties that could be anywhere in South Florida, South Texas, Mexico, Arizona, and Southern California but are evocative of none of those places.
one thing i think the community is completely ignoring is how the game is purposefully lacking assets and variety. The whole point is for paradox to make the game insufferable without DLC so that you are desperately foaming at the mouth when they try to sell a handful of homes, trees, cars, etc.. for example they seemed to purposefully choose silly vehicles like Harley Davidson style motorcycles and smartcars to be the primary vehicle for the sims, that way your city looks like some goofy alternate universe where biker and smartcar gangs rule the streets..
so what they did is added more "exclusive" cars (6) which can ONLY be acquired if you purchase the ultimate edition ($90) or the whole "season pass" ($50). so if you dont spend $90 for the ultimate or $50 more for the pass, you cannot get the handful of "muscle cars" that come with the ultimate edition/season pass. Even then now you just have harley, smartcar and muscle car gangs ruling the streets. it's such an odd variety of vehicles that dont fit well in any kind of city
on the subreddit i just saw a post with a whole bunch of parking lots portraying an "american style city"... half the parking spots were either Harleys or smartcars. yea, that's very "american" indeed...
I assume they are doing one of these "expansion passes" every year and each expansion pass will have content exclusive to the purchase of the whole pass ($50). in 5 years they will likely be selling a bundle of everything in the game that costs upwards of 3 or 4 hundred dollars. soon enough there will be endless posts on reddit asking "what's the best DLC? should i buy them all? etc"
The fact that CO and PDX have gone radio silent on the PS5 and XBS versions tells a lot about the performance. It's basically unplayable on anything other than a 4000 series or high end 3000 series GPU.
Yeah, it’s a damn shit show for all involved. Might as well not spread to console until it is cleaned on PC.
What's crazy to me is that they can't even blame the graphics or simulation, because both are shit frankly. This game looks only slightly better than CS1 and the simulation can't be all that intensive because it's held together with chopsticks.
@spacebound1969 bro.... what simulation you talk about?
@@LiftandCoaBoth CS1 and CS2 simulate city activities based on the current location, function, and requirement of every asset that a player places in a map (houses, stores, schools, metros, fire stations, power plants, factories, ports)... as well as any subsidiary asset that each primary asset utilizes (trucks, busses, cabs, trains, boats) to function. The movement of "people" and goods through the cities infrastructure, how that movement changes over time, and how the primary assets evolve/advance over time... IS the simulation.
Modders have made some massively in-depth overhauls of the base game simulation functions/rules for CS1 (especially ones that allow cities to continue working once they get too large for base game mechanics to function). CS1 started development as a traffic logistics and managment simulator game, and at the end of the day CS1 and CS2 are still traffic simulation games. They are still effectively just fancy/complex wrapping paper for a throuput efficiency simulator.
Sorry for the info dump, but that's kind of what it has to be lol
I hope they just abandon consoles so they don't have to water down the PC version.
I am an OG GAmer. My first PC game was a helicopter simulator back in 1985. I enjoyed CS1 with the assets and mods. I pre-ordered the Ultimate Edition pre-launch. I played other games and did pay attention to the noise leading up to launch. I downloaded the game on day 3 or 4 after release and what a sh!t show!! I have an Alienware desktop with a 4090, 64gb of ram and I was lucky to get 50 FPS. Almost immediately they delayed all additional content promised in the ultimate edition. They knew when they launched the game, performance was a 2 out of 10, yet they released it. The should have done a $29.99 BETA Early Release and they would have had a lot more support and a lot less heat. They bent us over!! In all of my years of gaming, this has to be the worst launch of a game. It almost feels criminal… they knew, yet they released it with a big “So what?” “You don’t like it, well too effing bad, we have your $$$”
I have a very similar rig to you. And I’m getting same performance… and that’s on an early city. It crawls below 30fps once you get a lot of people.
Couldn’t agree more about the early access badge… let people know what they are getting into first. And it’s such a shame because as a franchise it’s wonderful, but they absolutely wrecked it for the sequel.
Appreciate the comment mate, well said .
@@cockneygamer I would have happily paid $30 for this if they'd badged it as early access and accepted the faults. That said, I'm still mainly enjoying playing it. I just won't be paying for anything else from CO until it's either free or so cheap it might as well be. And also - I wouldn't be too hard on the actual devs here. They were almost certainly unhappy that the game was released in it's current state. More likely this was a executive level decision to start generating some revenue regardless of the state of development. Those are the people that deserve the toxicity from consumers.
@benharwood3698 couldn’t agree more. Dare I say, they mitigate at least 50% of the criticism if they priced it accordingly and called it early access. We would all be so more willing to forgive and have that patience.
Steve from Gamersnexus channel has the access to basically whatever configuration he wants, and when he tested Skylines 2, even he couldn't get the game to run properly with vanilla city of 100 000 people. Gamersnexus doesn't review games usually, only ones that made a significant impact on people, mostly a bad one.
Linus from Linus Tech Tips was running a game on a beast of a cpu with 128 cores, and 64 of those (engine limitation) were working 100% for the duration of the game session. That was when the game launched.
FREE early beta. Why get charged to do their work- QA testing- when that's what THEY'RE paid to do
when they upped the system requirments mere weeks before release I cancelled my pre-order, sad to see that it was the right choice
I was waiting for someone to finally get in to this DLC without making excuses for a multimillion dollar company. The real reason I think they released it is so they don't get sued for that ultimate £90 edition. Great video like always.
Really good point mate, not one I had even considered until you noted it. I guess they have to deliver something for the ultimate edition… what the quality is almost matters not. Well said. Thanks for commenting too! Cheers
@@cockneygamerThat’s what I’ve been thinking. It’s difficult to get a refund on a garbage DLC, but not shipping means many, many refunds. This came out right at the end of Q1.
For me Cities Skylines II is just like if I installed a shader pack and 2 mods to Minecraft and called it Minecraft 2
But not the good mods, just knock-offs that didn't actually provide the functionality I actually used in the first game.
I don't know if it really is the fault of Paradox or if it's just the devs. Remember, CO are the same people that already bungled Cities in Motions 2 and with how they communicate, they seem to dislike, if not hate their own playarbase by calling them toxic and stuff.
Such a good point… I’ve admittedly blamed and pointed my finger at Paradox here (just based on other games) but yes, it’s difficult to say if it’s CO here too. Appreciate you pointing this out mate.
@@cockneygamer the mod support especially seems to be CO not paradox, considering modding is such a big part of other paradox games. I mean fuck Divergences of Darkness was in Victoria 3 in months and yet cs2 cant even mod in a new car model
Its chicken and egg situation.
Publisher wants to release a game on time but devs say game aren't ready but is it not ready because publisher put unrealistic time schedule or devs were lazy and thought their playerbase will consume anything they throw at them?
The other failed games show similar development cycle:
1. Development was going for 2-3 years but idea is not solid and systems aren't developed
2. Game announced
3. A year later game is "finished" after 6 months of crunch overtime but in reality its a pre-alpha build at best and they'd need at least another year to actually finish the game
Also CO isn't even a big studio. But they were still basically doing dlc:s for the first C:S when they also had to be making C:S 2.
Truth to be told, the first game actually had life in it still, they just had to push for a sequel faster.
Seems reminiscent of Kerbal Space Program 2, which at least was marked as "early access".
Aleast ksp 2 didnt release a dlc when the game was a buggy mess
I gave KSP2 a really hard time on this channel. But all things considered, it’s miles ahead of CS2 in how it treats it fans (early access and no DLC as you say).
@@cockneygamer Well, the first versions of KSP1 were also pretty mediocre.
For KSP2 most people expected a lot more and I understand that, especially for the price they asked for it.
But the fact that they sell it as early access, does make quite a bit of difference.
It was a lot more honest.
And personally I set the bar quite differently when I do hear "early access".
I finally got KSP2 after the science update and I quite enjoy it. I still hate CS2.
The earliest builds of KSP1 were free. I have them archived. After they started charging think I paid $15 for *years* of fun and all the expansion content.
You can't compare that to KSP2 charging retail price for an early access disaster that struggles to properly lay the groundwork that the original did a decade ago.
SimCity 4 released in 2003 is still the best city builder. Especially with all the present day updates, patches, fixes and mods. CS2 cant even compare and SC4 fully updated blows CS1 out of the water. You want 15 million people you can. You want 50 million. You can. Transportation options are insanely deep and just get better as the NAM team releases more.
I just think that 3d Citybuilders are the best
@@Skibidy_rizzler_ sc4 is 3D
It is not true 3D, buildings are 2D. Read it up.
@@Jaybiooh that is not true the camera was just locked. The assets were all 3d rendered. It is why the free camera 3d mod even works
@@Jimmys_TheBestCop Did you see the post on r/gaming about that 3D mod the other day? In the comments one of the devs for SC4 (u/vertexnormal) said that they had "square boxes for all of the buildings with textures projected on to them, think of it like a 3d sprite", and how that wouldn't work for bridges. And as someone said there, "the game is 3D and "fake 3D" w sprites everywhere". Very interesting to read.
Top notch commentary and bang on the moolah - Cities Skylines 2 has the distinct pen and ink of other Paradox titles that became abandonware as soon as they'd pushed it out to pad their quarterlies. They turned Surviving Mars from a nice title from an small studio into a dead end. Ditto Surviving the Aftermath and more recently Surviving the Abyss. The excuse? They didn't get enough love (i.e. bunce) from gamers to carry on developing it, so they just abandoned the game.
Cities Skylines 2 bears all the hallmarks of this strategy. Release a load of old pony, ignore complaints, farm DLC and then stick it on sale for one last raid of people's bank accounts before running off and saying that we're all mean and don't deserve nice things.
Steam has to take some blame here too. It was clear from Day One that this was a scam. Nothing in the game resembled the ads they played in the run-up to launch. The simulation is nothing of the sort, content is woeful, gameplay terrible and performance egregious. The tagline "if you can dream it, you can build it" was utter codswallop - the dream was a nightmare and Paradox/CO couldn't even build their own game, let alone a city. Despite the massive backlash and overwhelming negative reviews, Steam continue to list the game and have taken no steps to warn potential purchasers that this game is really a late beta version at best. What Steam should really do is pull this game from the store and fire a warning shot across the bows of big developers that marketing wank, fraud and deception have no place in the Valve universe.
As for me, I will not be buying another Paradox game unless and until they fire their entire senior management team and get some people in who give a monkey's about players.
Glad you brought up Biffa, I’ve been following him for years. He generally tries to find a positive side so when he was so honest it really hit hard. Also given he is currently playing so many other games right now and started a new CS1 city says a lot. He is still doing CS2 content but you can just hear his frustration.
He’s great. I’m hoping he does a massive series around Manor Lords as that look promising (I’ll try and get a review out for that too).
Positive is great in normal videos, but it's a disservice to his fans in a review. Anyone whose review wasn't "you should wait" has to get filed under "poisoned by NDA", IMHO, and never trusted again.
Thank you. You are the first reviewer I have heard who has come out front and center saying that they do not understand their fan base. I think this applies not just to Paradox but also to CO. Steam Workshop showed what their customers wanted, what was important to them. They were ignored. CO had an unfilled wish list from ten years ago and that is the script they followed. And Paradox never questioned it. And their upgrades and releases and comments since show that they still don't fully understand the issue. Yes, the game was buggy and not ready performance-wise. But CS was a good game made great by mods and assets -- all the things on and downloaded from Steam Workshop. And it appears that all of this was was back burnered -- no modding, no asset creation, no map creation. And now as they struggle to get those editors up and running we still get inane comments from Paradox and CO.
Personally, I feel that some of the problems were because PC and Console had to be siamese twins. A problem in one can't be fixed unless it can be fixed in both. I believe this is causing a lot of extra workload and is causing delays. And, it may never work. But if it does, it might be an unsatisfactory compromise, not optimized for either one. Neither PC nor Console users will be happy.
Can they recover? I'm no longer sure.
Thank you mate, some great points in here.
I could have done a whole video on modding… it’s such a major part of the franchise. In fact for many content creators they live off the modding. But as you say, the fact it’s been implemented in this fashion tells you everything you need to know in how they don’t understand their fans or why the original was so brilliant.
This is a problem for CK3 also. Paradox just took the Sims business model of selling a skeleton first and then selling the organs afterwards.
Paying for CK3 or HOI4 dlc is an IQ test, just use an unlocker
Paradox is constantly breaking the worst rated product record on steam everytime they release something
City planner plays was VERY vocal
So was Overcharged Egg, in fact they both are still very vocal about their displeasure with the current state of the game.
Man I always forget how your channel has a relatively small amount of subscribers, you're videos are so professional it easily feels like I'm watching a channel with half a million subs.
Thank you keeping it real and speaking your mind!! Can't wait to see your channel grow more!!!!!
Jesus… comments like that mean the world to me. Truly… thank you. It tells me the style and manner in which I do the content is landing well (the stats I receive don’t always give me much) so I really appreciate you taking the time to type this up and offer the support. Cheers again, more content to come for sure.
This channel deserves more subs and reach.
We need more tubers creating more hard hitting videos to make more devs accountable.
Nothing wrong liking a game, concept, devs etc, but calling out where we feels standards arent met.
Sadly to many creators are to affaid to hurt their connections with these devs.
Top work Reggie, keep it up
Very kind words mate, I appreciate it. I always try and bring some balance to videos but did struggle on this occasion!
Thank you for your support too, more than I deserve. Cheers 🍻
You said it perfectly. They need to sit down and say exactly what you said: "Fans, former fans, we messed up. We acknowledge it completely and we aren't going to apologize, we're going to do something about it instead: From this point forward, Cities Skylines 2 is considered an early-release beta version, please consider it to be nothing more than that for the time being. With the modding features being live now, also in beta, we want to work on this game to iron out the (many) problems. We've hired a different development company to work on a free expansion while our developers work on fixing the game."
Followed up by: "We also understand that the game looks and feels like crap, so like our announcement trailer suggested, we are going to fully switch to Unreal Engine, while using the simulation engine from Cities Skylines 2. These will be two stand-alone pieces of software: the visual layer (UE) and the simulation layer (an API, basically). This should enhance the visual beauty of the game and will also allow us (and others) to develop other interesting VFX and UI layers!"
And: "Lastly, we're opening up the sim-engine (API) layer to development by outside sources. We'll keep this in-house first (office spots available for those who want it), with the intent of going fully open-source later. Our business model would revolve around selling the game as a licensed product that is a complete package deal. We understand it invites piracy, but we welcome pirates to the mix, too. Pay what you can, when you want to."
Grow the community to hundreds of millions of players. Make mad profits. Stellar reputation. Love from everyone.
They will do the exact opposite.
"please consider the game you paid full price for now a beta test version"
"thank you for suggesting us how people can be scammed EVEN BETTER with EVEN BETTER LOOPHOLES FOR THE COMPANIES they can utilize ehrn sht hits the fan and the public opinion turn too much on us".
HELL NAW. We dont give this industry more excuses to never ever finish a game. again
I did a huge U-turn on this issue. I used to have the mindset of "oh, give it a year or so and it'll be better than CS1" but I just don't see that happening anymore. By the anniversary of the game's release I'd be surprised if my favorite creators are still playing, and if Paradox hasn't completely sucked their fanbase's bank accounts (or at least tried to!)
We all thought and hoped the same mate. And a bit of me still does if I’m being honest because I really hope to be proved wrong.
If they'd actually admitted it was Early Access and labeled it that on Steam, then I might have had that mindset. But when they're clearly unwilling to be honest, they don't get the benefit of the doubt.
I haven’t bought the game for these exact reasons. And I won’t until I hear it runs smoothly and on a wider range of computers.
The game runs just fine on my PC and it's mid-range. Performance isnt the problem. The game just isnt as fun as CS1. I thought long and hard about it and literally the only thing I like about CS2 is the road tool. It feels almost like a city builder on rails. I know RCI demand has always been a thing but in CS2 demand is so predictible and i feel like I have no flexibility in how I grow my city and I feel like Im always building the same things in the exact same order.
This was literal poetry to my ears. I was one of the suckers who fell for pre-ordering, despite knowing how bad it is for the industry - I saw the early CC videos and was immediately sold. Since then I've clocked 11 hours in the game and haven't turned it on since. Absolutely abysmal behaviour from CO and PDX, not the way I expected C:S II to go at all. Fantastic commentary mate, laughed out loud at "about as robust as a chocolate teapot". You've earned a sub through me, hope this video blows up and delivers a hard hitting message to the clowns who pushed this on us.
Thank you for your support mate, welcome to the Cockney Gang! Cheers
CS2 is the reason why I will never pre order a game again. lesson well and truly learned. CO management should be in jail for fraud. I have said this before and I will say it again I am sure.. I bought the deluxe version or whatever it was called, installed it on day 1. I have 9 hours of game time and can not see me playing it again any time soon. Too much needs to be fixed. They complain about toxicity? Then stop making people angry!
Same, I was an uneducated enjoyer of Cities Skyline that I bought on sale later in its life, enjoyed it and when the sequel was announced decided it was worth my investment and bought it as soon as it went on presale. I was painfully mistaken, got the $90 version to have everything. Steam says I have 7 hours. Uninstalled CS2 and reinstalled CS, hope someday they sort this out and I can get some value out of my investment.
I don’t know why people still preorder games. What’s the point? You get a couple extra skins and stuff. It’s just not worth it. The last game I preordered was Halo 2 for the Xbox. It just isn’t worth the BS and broken promises.
I passed on preordering CS2 because I wanted to see the state the game launched in. To this day, even after the DLC, I still don't see any reason to spend money on CS2.
It's also hilarious to see how Paradox abandoned the content creators who shilled their game.
"You modders finish the game for us and we'll get to work on the $4,500 in DLC's we have planned... K?"
-Paradox
JFC, THANK YOU. The tip toeing and baselessly optimistic language, as well as the belligerent "IM HAVING FUN, LOOK!" attitudes while they are literally churning out the exact same content as each other has just got me in disbelief. So THANK YOU for being realistic. Even after the recent "apology", it's been 6 months and the game still feels like an Alpha with no constructive criticism given to the dev team by the testers and trying to push on to Beta, all while parading as a full release.
Thank you.
You have to understand two things:
1. Higher ups at companies aren't used to hearing the complaints from people, they normally hide behind other departments for that and not giving a fudge. However with the gaming industry it more and more results in games not selling well anymore and suddenly the CEO is faced with losing money. Instead of looking at themselves and admit they were wrong in how they handled it, they play it on "Stop being toxic and leave our developers alone or we won't communicate with you much anymore!'". They always try to play on feelings of others. Never lay the fault at themselves.
2. It's 2024, having a different opinion is toxic these days. People have forgotten how to have discussions and that other views exist. It's at all times a "Us vs Them" thing.
I still kinda feel like CS2 wasn't different enough from the first one. It reminds me of those Train Sim games that come out every 2 years just to make you buy all the dlc again
In Total War we have Volound who speaks out against shills and the dev's bad attitude, we need someone like him in the paradox games
Honestly, my thoughts on the matter is that it was Collassal Order that dropped the ball. CS2 was in development for seven years, and I think it was PDX's threatening them with a release date that got the game into the halfway playable state it was at launch instead of eternally stuck in dev hell and feature creep.
Then again, it would have been nice to just have let the devs create the game they envisioned
Honestly, if it was actually in production for seven years... just replace the whole dev team.
We need to stay critical of gaming studios putting out unpolished dogshit like this because video games have really started trending in the direction of "beta releasing" games as an excuse to not fix bugs. There's no reason you should have to pay for unfinished games because what always ends up happening is that the studio turns around and ignores all the complaints after the game sells well on release. Then they release shitty DLC to make more money off of the "dedicated” players that are holding on for bug fixes. And it really is telling that there were so many youtubers given CS2 beta versions to showcase on their channel so they could sing its praises. CO was probably banking on the hype to help meet their sales quota so they could ignore all the bugs and keep ripping everyone off
I think this applies to all Paradox games not just CS2. as their DLC policies has become... questionable...
It needed to be said. Truth is even if the game worked exactly as they described, it still wouldn’t meet expectations. The amount of potential they left on the table is the saddest part for me.
It certainly doesn't help that the AAA industry in the past twenty years have groomed us to expect too much, to the point that communities begin to place unrealistic expectations on the developers. It also doesn't help that investors and executives also place unrealistic, unobtainable and oftentimes even fantastical expectations on them.
These factors have a lot to play in the way the AAA industry is in the place it's in, and why the next generation of games is now instead being spearheaded by independent developers, or even by a single person in his/her mom's basement.
Super helpful man and I subbed. Props to the Biffa shoutout - between his video and now this I have hesitated in buying CS2 and will continue to wait hoping they address the issues. I want it to be successful but I also don’t want to pay $90 to be a guinea pig.
Appreciate your support mate, and welcome to the gang! I’m getting a lot of traction on this video which is great, but we do reviews for all types of games here, including the odd ranting video like you saw here! Enjoy your stay mate, glad to have you onboard. And yes, we are sadly all guinea pigs in this hell hole of a game!
THANK YOU! Finally someone voicing what needed to be said. From the moment I saw that first trailer I was like “wow this sure looks pretty but the game is gonna be nowhere near this, and in fact, I’m pretty sure it’s gonna be absolute shit”. I never bought or preordered it and by now I don’t think I ever will.
They should add the ability to move oil by pipeline.
I wrote off anything from paradox almost 10 years ago now. If they're involved, my wallet remains closed.
All AAA Companies are going to crap. Indies and classics are where it's at these Days. There's almost nothing new worth even following anymore. I used to have half a dozen games on my to-play list at any given time. I have none now, accept for maybe the Elden Ring DLC, but that's just DLC. And it'll probably be a while after that's released before I look forward to anything else- there's just nothing out there that tickles my fancy. I think it's about time I replay FFX, from 2002- there just aren't AAA games like that anymore.
I don’t think there should be DLCs for games that you already payed for. Especially at the price they are at. Some are literally the same price of the game.
I've been disappointed by games before, and sometimes it was expected so it didn't hurt that bad. I was really rooting for Cities 2 to keep with the trend of changing the landscape of sim games, but... they tried to manipulate us into accepting an unfinished product and paraded around blaming all of us for speaking up about the issues the game was facing. A small amount may have been acting out of pocket, but that doesn't dismiss all the real problems with the game. Even though I've told myself I'll just play it when it's "finished" it still broke my heart and I don't see it the same way anymore (which says a lot for me and my very otherwise guarded ego lol). Such a shame.
I can buy a DLC but I still can't put the Empire State Building in my city
If it wasn't for the fact that it's a video game, there could be a matter for a class action!
Why would it being a computer game mean it can't be a class action? A lawsuit might be just what colossal order deserve.
As someone who worked on this DLC i tried realy hard to address the issues but no luck
great video. honestly, paradox should've put the game into early access, fixed all of the messes, and for 1.0 added mods and assets. but a dlc when the base game isn't even complete? thats just bullshit
I realized the game was dead after they put out that December "traffic AI fix" and I watched my cars still: change lanes from a dead stop red light at the intersection, reverse on highways, block ambulances/fire/cops (things shown wouldn't be the case in the fake PR releases), and drive down pedestrian only networks (since that asset is just a road network copy/pasta).
Finally a reason to not regret buying the first one instead of the second one.
Its so nice to finally be able to redirect some Private Division hate over to Colossal Order.
Sad you have to bring biffa in to this but yeah, him not mention any of this in the beginning did raise a few flags but him answering you was such a gentleman move.
Thank you both for raising these questions.
the fall from grace is insane with this one
Glad to see how quickly they backpedaled and made it a free update, but the fact that anyone at Paradox/CO thought it was a good idea to begin with really doesn't bode well, and displays a level of tone-deafness that's difficult to even fathom. DLC (let alone paid DLC) shouldn't even be on the roadmap yet at all. Just let the devs finish making the base game first, there will be plenty of time to milk it dry later.
Just seems to me like Paradox is bleeding the ol' cash and needed a quick injection, rushing CS2 out the door. Just conjecture, I'm on the outside looking in through a window for this one.
At first i didn't think much of not buying it. I thought I'd let them work it out first. Now it's important to me to abstain because it's the only way i can cast my vote. Reading that tweet from the ceo a few weeks ago ticked me off even more. Everyone has their own opinion and mine is that this game deserves none of my money. Disrespect the fans is one thing. They take it a step further. Game dev is art, they disrespect the art and the entire industry.
ragging on CS fanboys is one my fav pastimes, Colossal Orders made it too easy with their business practices too.
I came for the title, stayed for the accent (Abroad in Japan-esque) and thoroughly anjoyed the critique. I dunno if Colossal Order will be able to get back deep from where they dig themselves in.
Fire the managers and marketing department, let the devs run the company.
I read on one of the comments you put up on your video that the game was "only 50 dollars and not 90" it confuses me how some people are so up gaming companies asses that they don't realise 50 dollars is not a good price for an incomplete game with performance and gameplay issues
It’s mad how people think. This is why the gaming industry has fallen so hard, because people will defend crap and moan at critique.
@@cockneygamer Its mental, there are games I want to try but I'm nowhere near willin to shell out almost 100 pounds for a half assed soulless and broken game
Also I assume the 50$ was the Standard Edition. The least they were charging
I understand the criticism to a degree, because I never had any big performance issues or issues with the gameplay and an overall good experience. My problem is more the lack of content compared to the previous game. I really like the new system about the roads and like always I think the modders base will fix a lot of the gameplay issues the game may have.
CS1 was a functional package on release and the first wave or 2 of dlc were proper expansion packs that came with patches like weather and time cycles. After the park dlc, the soul of the company lived long enough to become the villan.
I’m a console player, where the game had disappeared like snow in the sun. No trace of it anywhere. Like it never existed.
You're lucky; it means you couldn't get misled by NDA people saying you should get it.
@@pfeilspitze I own the Game Pass, on which they advertised the release of CS2. It would’ve been “free”. It just never released. Maybe for the better.
Thanks. I am so tired of greedy and short-sighted publishers ruining entire franchises by pooping out stuff like this. The rumor is, the game was launched knowingly broken ONLY so it would bump up the quarterly earnings report of the publisher, and the DLC was probably also pushed out to meet a financial report deadline, not because it was done or anyone believed it was good.
I don't mind spending money on fairly trivial things if I know what it is up front. I mean... I own almost all the DLC for Crusader Kings 2, and we all know how much THAT is. THIS, however, wasn't labeled as "palm tree assets" for $2.99. It was pushed as if it were a full sized DLC, when in reality it was all they had ready to go and was probably going to just be part of their Maritime expansion later.
You f'ing nailed this. I loved the first one so much I bought the deluxe version. Haven't been able to play my 120k + city in months because it's utterly pointless.
Total bloody turd and the bean counters are responsible. Product owners, bean counters and execs making scummy decisions. Then they'll sack all the dev's who were overworked and probably under paid.
something HAS to have happened in Paradox during this launch. different creative director? different CEO? something huge changed, and it shows.
I was nothing but critical of the game since they lifted the embargo a few days before release. I tried to warn people about the game before launch, but I only have so much reach as a console creator.
I can't understand how people see all this happening and you still see comments like "console release when?"
If it's this broken on PC I cant wait to see the mess that is the console version.
I Am Glad Someone Spoke Up Man And Nowdays Its Not Even City Skylines 2 Its Almost Everyone like Call Of Duty,House Flipper2,HellDivers2,Ecape From Tarkov. And Ect Its Sad To See The Gaming Industry Go To Shit.
i remember being so hyped for this game before it came out.. sadly you can't trust any game these days to launch in a complete working state
THANK YOU!!! Someone has finally said it! As one of the many die-hard fans, I was expecting something awesome. We didn't get it. I respect the fact that bug fixes take time, and can take a lot of man hours. I respect the fact that they're a business, and need to make money to pay the devs to fix the problems. All I'm expecting is for them to make the game that they advertised, that we all paid good (some would say "too much" money for. I don't think that's too much to ask
Thank you for the comment! Appreciate it!
And yes… we are all understanding of how complex a game like this should be. Absolutely we expect patches to fix things up. But you’re right… this feels like a different game to what was promised. Cheers
I agree with this 100%. They were so focused on how to make the most money they forgot to actually make a game.
They are doing sims strategy with dlcs
I mean, people even defended The Day Before with teeth and nails.
It doesn't matter how terrible something is, there'll always be people incapable of admitting their belowed product is just cheap trash.
I've really tried with this game, but it runs and looks terrible.
I'm a CK3 guy, first time getting your channel suggested. Have a look the steam ratings on our new DLC lol. Kudos to you. Great vid. Liked commented subscribed.
Thank you for the sub, like and comment my good man. Hopefully you enjoy reviews and other banter videos. Thanks again mate
Paradox has been doing this for a long time and I’m glad they are finally getting called out for it. Lots of their games are releasing as broken that they can fix later. Victoria 3 was HORRIBLE on release aswell.
Banger critique, you're doing God's work. The only reason paradox has gotten this sickeningly dysfunctional is because of rabid brain dead fanboys that will immediately by any content pushed out, regardless of quality.
The more dissenting voices that paradox hears the greater chance we have of actually saving many of our favorite game franchises.
The walled modded garden is what sealed it's fate for me...
Paradox needs to cool it with their DLC release structure. Every game they publish seems half finished till you buy all the DLC which adds up to more than the price of the base game.
I went back to CS:1. While there's some nice visual polish to CS:2, the gameplay itself isn't very fun. The environments feel drab and a little depressing. The sims creep me out. There's a total lack of assets, and the cranes building even the tinniest of houses really bugs me. The simulation feels off. And really, it doesn't look that much better than CS:1 and adds very little to the original game.
I loved the first one, got me again interested in city building games.
While I hope that CS2 will have it's No Man's Sky moment, it seems it is going for a KSP2 moment.
Sad, really sad.
I bought Cities Skylines 1 nearly day 1. I bought Sim City on day 1 too and was severely burned, so seeing a new game that promised no online bullcrap and even better functionality and whatnot, I was all in. However, I still haven't bought Cities Skylines 2. I'm not even waiting for a steam sale for it or anything. I'm just waiting to hear that they actually improved the game rather than just add more stuff. To be honest, I didn't love Cities Skylines after the first while because each new addition became increasingly clear to me it was just a very thin layering of features with bigger and bigger pricetags each time. I think I only ever bought 2 dlc, and quit after that and just focused on mods to expand my game. So unless Cities Skylines can provide for me what my modded version of Cities Skylines (mostly gameplay wise, I'm not a stickler for all the cosmetic and stylistic stuff I modded needing to be in the game), I'm not interested in spending over another $100 for the same game
This is the first video I have ever seen of you but I'll make sure it won't be my last! Your opinions are great and the way you layed them out was more facts based rather than just some spitting of your own anger. I really really enjoyed wathcing this and I think more people need to speak out in a similar manner!
Thank you for this, that’s very kind of you to say. I mostly do reviews but every now and again something rules me up and out comes my inner Karen! Hope to see you around in future vids! Cheers
After the big surprise that the first game was, i preordered the sequel on ultimate (with a lower price thankfully) but .... i don't know you guys but for me, they've lost my thrust. NEVER AGAIN (and even for any other games/companies now) i will buy on preorder. I'll simply wait a bit for PLAYERs reviews.
You have my full respect for telling it as you see it. Fans deserve better for what they've paid.
The game clearly needed 2 years still in the oven, yet was released to the public. The reason this happened is because Paradox played spreadsheet simulator. They lost a Hugh chunk of money on a game that didn't sell as expected.
And knowing that c:s2 would be a guaranteed success they released it. But in the end the entire community and the franchies suffered. Even their first game used to have a big chunk of players still playing. But since the release of c:s2 even its player numbers suffered tremendously.
In the beginning, I also wanted to have the game ASAP. After they done the trailers and built the hype, it was a huge let down the experience the game in its current state
I've come to realise that it's 10x better to let the devs just do their thing and get it finished.
Colossal order had built up an amazing reputation. c:s1 was a banger. So when I got c:s2 I was ignoring most of the bugs and etc. Hoping that colossal would surely have it under control soon enough.
That day never came. After 100 days since the games release, many people came out and showed their dissatisfaction. All the youtubers in the space and the majority of the player base too.
They did release fixes and what not but its still mismanaged. Their releasing dlc (or rather an "asset pack") already while the game still has problems deep in its core.
But to give you an example. Public transport doesn't have an effect on anything. A CZcamsr has tried it. He had a huge city built with great public transport. He deleted all of it, nothing changed. Maybe some money but it had no effect on the city at all. It felt faked, no impact.
There is also problems with the core economy of the game, how that also feels faked and has no real meaning.
And most of the stuff you do ingame feels like it has no meaning. Most stuff feels faked or temporary.
People found the logic and features for the deep simulations that would make the game something truly great and unique. But it's either incorporates incorrectly or not used.
I got the Ultimate edition, and I feel betrayed, left in the dust. I have played the game for 120 hours since launch. Most of which was within the launch month. I grew a city to 400k population I believe. I tried my best to enjoy the game and look past the issues, but in this case, you aren't even able to even if you wanted. Their focusing on everything else then they should. The graphics arent the issue currently, but the core simulation of the game. Not only its performance but its functionality. Mt prediction is that they will have the game ready after the next 2 years. That's when we will see what the game should have actually looked like on launch. In a perfect world they would have halted the production of expansions and DLC, apologised, realized the game is in a early access state, and admitted that Paradox or themselves forced the early release. Until then, my loyalty, trust, or any good relationship has been broken with the franchise and the people behind it.
TL;DR: Please don't release the game early if it's not ready. They hurt their franchise possibly to their eventual slow death, if they do nothing about it.
Here here mate, very well said and explained.
I saw the sims community complain about delaying life by you… and I am like for the love of god, don’t tell paradox to release games that aren’t ready, look at cities skyline 2.
Paradox and their business model have been awful for a long time. They're on my "don't buy" list along with Ubi and a few other publishers
Very solid and honest review of the sorry state this game and paradox interactive are in right now, you did a very necessary job by speaking out without any filters about the absolute BS this game is right now, and I hope someone from pdx watches this and start getting their job properly done
you have absolutely nailed it. they have turned into atari in their dumb schemes
You are spot on!
I have played it for 1 hour on game launch and it was horrible. I refunded my money and i wanted to wait until the fix the problems.. Meaning normal gameplay high resolution with medium/high settinsgs (3440x1440 or 4K) Still they want us to play at 1080P Seriously? Its not 2010 anymore. If this game is a 'next gen game' as the say.. Playing 1080P for a crappy 30/40fps is NOT next -gen.
So, i still havent purchase the game as not much has changed since launch.
Reggie keeping it real. Love it.
Appreciate it Sweeney mate. Nothing worse than coming across as a grumpy sod for the sake of it but this particular fiasco bothers me no end. Thank you for commenting too!
I'm just glad I like Paradox for its normal strategy games
You know, besides being bang on, I think it's almost poetry to hear you and how you express yourself.
Very kind of you to say mate. Appreciate you taking the time to comment that. Thank you!
Fantastic, could not of said it better myself! Marinna Hallikainen, the secret to having a successful game is ensuring that any game you release is complete, fault free and put together with strong foundations. Once you have done this open it up to the modding community, through their creativity and skill they create all sorts of things that complement the base game and next thing you know your making money as games are flying out the door. Take a look at how Giant do it with Farming Simulator, they are brilliant!!
Nail. On. Head.
Well said mate.
Keep up the great work, your videos are spot on. We'll eventually make a good game out of city skylines 2 one criticism at a time
@@cockneygamer
Love it how you don't mince your words! Just subbed to you channel after seeing this pop up on my recommendations and I've gone back to watch some of your other vids.
I agree with you on how CS2 and the city sim that it could have been has fallen to 🤑greed. Can only hope that there is a spiritual successor around the corner from some other dev & publisher.
Thank you for the support, and welcome to the gang. Glad the other videos didn’t scare you away!
As for the city builder genre, I think the passion everyone shows here proves there is room for a successor here.
Thanks again for supporting the channel. Cheers 🍻
As a avid cities skylines 1 player, I have love the game since. I was so hyped when cities skylines 2 came out, I preorder it, and it made me cry. I've seen tons of great games die, some for ex, SimCity, Star wars, and burnout