GROUNDED: Why My Perfect Airplane Can't Fly
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- čas přidán 10. 04. 2024
- Ever wondered what could ground a perfectly airworthy plane? Dive into the absurd yet enlightening journey of 23 Uniform, a Cessna 172 grounded over just $5 of paperwork! 📜✈️ In this video, we unravel a tale that seems straight out of a Kafka novel but is all too real for pilots and aircraft owners.
From the initial shock of discovering that legal flight is a mere $5 away, to battling the bureaucratic behemoth of aviation registration, this story has it all. 😱 We’ll guide you through the maze of FAA regulations, the importance of keeping every document up to snuff, and the unexpected snafus that can come with airplane ownership.
But it’s not all turbulence! 🚀 Learn how the pilot navigated these choppy administrative waters, the crucial role of the aviation community, and how AOPA’s Pilot Protection Services became an unexpected co-pilot in this journey. Whether you’re a seasoned aviator or just love a good underdog story, this video is your boarding pass to the complex world of aviation legality and the community that navigates it.
Buckle up for a tale of frustration, revelation, and the relentless pursuit of keeping a bird in the sky - all for the love of flying. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and join us as we explore the highs and lows of aviation! 🌐✨ #Cessna172 #PilotProtectionServices #faang
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The FAA…”We’re not happy, Till you’re not happy.”
They're good for putting pilots/owners under a "60-day" warning period, then taking several months to get back to you. I called and asked, "How long can I expect to wait?" The person answered, "I don't know... 6 months... 8 months? I don't know, sir." Super helpful.
That poor bird with broken wing in background was stealing my attention a bit :) Good luck with the process thou. And I am looking forward for next flying video.
I was thinking the same thing. Poor thing.
Me too i though would the only only noticing the plane at the background
Good vid. Good info. Good luck!!! Way 2 B AOPA & PPS!!!
I couldn't agree more re: AOPA PPS, before Basic Med I had some medical matters which came up and they easily explained what I needed to do to fix things with the authorities. Worked like a charm - easily the best value for money for a pilot!!
Call Murkowski. I had a very similar situation with my aircraft reg. I called Murkowski's office, and a few days later, the FAA called me and emailed me a temp reg during the call. Lisa's office called back a few days after that and all was well. And it was all free, and fast. A shame I had to pull rank, but with the FAA budget being a political football, here we are.
Can’t remember the last time Murkowski did anything in my best interest. But this is a good idea.
I'll second this. The nuclear button for getting anything done with a federal agency that doesn't want to work with you is a congressional inquiry. Rep or senator staff can create an inquiry at the top and it cuts so much red tape so fast.
I also called my congressional representative who put in an inquiry. The response from the FAA was immediate. Quite the opposite of the previous year of personally dealing with them. I too, signed up for pilot protection services. It seems like a self perpetuating circle though!
@@angleofattack Lisa didn't do anything. Her staff was WAY more excited than I expected to "go gettum." The very nice people from the FAA were very helpful; we had a good chat about airplanes. It was nice.
@@angleofattack well, it wouldnt be her doing anything in usual politician fashion. But, their office staff are usually pretty good regardless of party or politician. Never hurts to reach out to their office and usually a staff member does what they can to keep constituents happy. I had a buddy that worked in Defazios office back in the day in Oregon and that was his main job, trying to help out constituents with government BS.
Best of luck getting things done in a timely manner. I'm looking forward to seeing you fly again.
One of the things I learned while in the Army was when dealing with the government is this. If you you need something done, one must become the biggest pain in the ass to the bureaucracy. Annoy them so much they'll do their job just to get rid of you. Respectfully of course, otherwise you'll find all kinds of problems popping up to make your life hell.
You got this, Chris! It's a learning curve for sure with the legal stuff! Before you know it, you'll be back flying around the Kachemak Bay! Hang in there.
Got my reg.. stuff buttoned up w/ my c182. Chris was awesome
Looking clean.
I hope you get this resolved quickly Chris. I agree, a call to Lisa's office wouldn't hurt. Once she knows the feds are hurting an essential Alaskan small business I have faith that her staff will give you priority. I'm also glad you're promoting AOPA, They've been awesome to me lately as a rusty pilot trying to get back in the game after a decade.
I wrote Lisa and San about changing the rule for inspecting runways. Got a boilerplate response. Dan’s office had a much more meaningful response.
I had the same frustrating issues last year!!
Hope you get this resolved quickly, Chris! Sounds so frustrating.
I was wondering where 2324U was Chris, best of luck with the paperwork mate! Greetings from Gold Coast/Northern Rivers Australia! 🤙🛩️🌊🐬🌴
FAA is amazing. I’m going through a first time Airplane buying experience, and they’ve been extremely helpful. I definitely recommend everyone join the organization, if nothing else to have those types of services. Also, they can help if you have one of those sit sit situations where you get a phone number to call. I hope it works out for you, brother!
you mean AOPA is amazing...but it is good to say FAA is amazing in writing...
@@gveduccio You are correct! AOPA is amazing!
Chris, Hope you get this straighten out soon, so you can get back to work. What a hassle. Being TAA will be a nice upgrade for 23U I'm in the process of getting my TAA / Complex hours now for my commercial.
Helpful video man! Thanks for sharing your situation.
Side note: This may be my ocd coming out, but mask and repaint your cowl stripes while you wait! Looks like she needs some love. 🤙
If I remember correctly then he had the plane repainted he left the original cowl stripes as is, probably for sentimental reasons/brand identity
Hey @Angle of Attack , I am curious what would happen if you filed for a ferry Permit?
I know that everything will work out in your favor in the end. I hope that it's more sooner than later. Keep us posted.
While you are waiting go get a spray can of orange paint mixed up at an automotive paint supply store to match the rest of the plane. You could have that cowl looking real nice with an hour or two of work.
I've always used an OKC based title service, I have my registration in hand when I go pick up the aircraft.
I got the same letter last week. How long is the grace period? I sent them an email to see what exactly they needed from my LLC. I was waiting for a response but it sounds like I will never get one. You advise to use the service in OK city?
The grace period is 12 months. Don’t email them. I used Aircraft Insured. But Pilot Protection Services can help you do the same thing but then you reap other benefits.
Sorry you ran into such a big problem. My experience is similar, but it went a little differently for me. When I put my plane in an LLC, I sent the bill of sale, $5 and a registration application. Thought I was good too. Then I got “The Letter”. It asked me to correct the application and add a title like member, or manager or CEO. Then they wanted some articles of organization. I added “manager” as a title and sent them the supplemental documents for the business. If I remember correctly it only took a couple of weeks….But then again I was still within the grace period.
I would add, don’t forget to keep the LLC updated so it doesn’t go away. You usually have to submit a report tot he state where you set up the LLC
Bottom line…DON’T WAIT until you are expired to get the paperwork in!
Agreed. I just didn’t know what to fill out. That was ambiguous. And had no one to ask on how to fill it out.
@@angleofattack I know, it’s a pain in the rear, especially when you are dealing with a large, slow moving bureaucracy. Stuck in the past using snail mail for everything. Have you looked at their new “CARES”, the on-line registration portal? It looks like they are attempting to get out of the 20th century finally..
I love that white plane with the yellow, red, and blue accents in the background.
I call it the ice cream airplane.
I’ve always said we should be able to file an “I.C.E.” (Interactive Customer Evaluation) complaint against any federal agency. When I was in the Army if we ever had any problems with the civilian contractors we would file an ICE complaint and usually things would be resolved. Not always but most times. All federal agencies have zero accountability for their complete and total lack of customer service.
Good luck Chris.
Thanks
Any chance you can tell me a name of the registration company you used?
The FAA is a bureaucracy that desperately needs modernization. Like many gov't agencies. But, if we want safe transportation including GA aviation and we want a better system, you can't support government cuts. It's the gorilla in the room everybody gets wrong. If you keep voting smaller gov't, for everything, if GA survives at all, it will be a Billionaires club as they will force you to pay for landing fees, Traffic Control, Radar Services and using the toilet at an airport or surtax for fueling etc. I think AOPA helps a great deal. The FAA is lop sided to commercial aviation and they get that wrong, (i.e, Boeing) . GA is a really important aspect of transportation with unique needs and requirements, AOPA does a good job at it.
I’m not advocating for cuts. I’m advocating for deregulation and modernization.
It's the elephant in the room.
The good old FAA.
The ‘Federation Against Aviation’.
Not sure if it is something you want to do, but you might consider starting another LLC and legally sell it from the original LLC to the new one. Then your wait time for registration should restart with the new application.
AOPA pilot protection services are worth there weight in gold. I had been denied 3rd class medical and told I’m not eligible. Contacted pilot protection, they walked me through what to do. Got my medical and been flying ever since.
Love that!
Can you do a video on how you found and bought your airplane?
Hey the same this is happening to me with my Cessna 140. The FAA didn't like the previous owners bill of sale so they sent it to me to fix. We did that and then they lost it when we sent it back.
5:08 RIP
$1,500 and 6 months later and I am still waiting to get a decision on my aeromedical. I’m an Army Aviation vet and some things lead to the process being more complicated and expensive. I was able to reach someone on the FAA aeromedical side though. So hopefully I will get a decision soon and start training!
I would still talk to PPS and see if they can help.
Send them a bill for lost income being a business!
Right
When I bought my plane 2 years ago, I also used my LLC name. I did all the paperwork myself and called the registration office. They emailed me a temporary registration the same day so I could fly until the permanent one was processed.
In florida. If we have an international flight scheduled with the new registered aircraft (Bahamas for example) they will expedite
Correct. That’s the only situation. But that exists for mostly business aircraft. I wasn’t going to lie and say I was flying internationally.
@@angleofattack it’s really not for business aircraft. We don’t lie in florida. We have trips to the Bahamas all the time for GA. You really have to do the flight.
Just a heads up, the tail number of the plane with a damaged wing is clearly visible at 6:55.
I did that a year ago. I put please expedite commercial registration.
I got my registrationin 10 days.
Yo Chris, the tailnumber on the plane with broken wing, is visible 5:01 in your video :(
Probably didn't need that extra $60. I was in a similar situation. The guy said to write "Urgent - AOG" on your application and it zooms to the front of the line. Mine took less than a week.
Interesting info. For sure never heard that. If that’s the case, wouldn’t everyone do that?
The $60 was money well spent. They knew exactly how to fix the issue.
WTF about the airplane with the bent wing behind you?
We all want to know right😂
That plane with the broken wing can't fly either. 😀
That's the latest in winglet design. They just haven't done the other wing yet. 😉
Just so you know, when you mentioned the plane with the broken wingtip and started blurring the tail number, it can still be seen at 5:00.
It took a year and a half for them to get the paperwork thru on the pacer. It was a mess, total mess. I’m also in the same boat on the cessna 150 that my dad soloed in. I don’t get why they are so messed up in registration, I don’t understand why it doesn’t take them 5 minutes to process this stuff, they certainly don’t delay in cashing in the check.
This aircraft (N2423U) was registered as of April-11-2024. Just letting people know who might be wondering. 🙂
An update in the description would be nice. 🙂
I made a whole video update :)
I sent for my transfer and registration about a month ago. It didn’t take them long to cash my five dollars! Hopefully, I’ll get it soon, you as well.. Planes are meant to fly not sit in hangers
The FAA loves to request additional information that they don't really need for reasons that they can't really articulate. Seems like government overreach to me. Congress/Supreme Court needs to get the executive branch under control.
Let me shed a little light on this. I won't say that this is exactly what is going on at the FAA, but I suspect it's the same thing:
My better half works in health insurance. She's worked there for quite a long time, starting on the lower rungs and worked her way up the food chain. The people who push paper have performance metrics they need to meet. Usually it's the number of documents touched in a day. Running short on your quota for the week/month? Just push the [Request more info] box and they get credit for processing that paperwork, even if everything was correct.
Of course, in the long-run this backfires as there will be the steady stream of applications coming in PLUS the "need more info" applications coming back into the system. This creates a logjam and backs up things very good...so these keyboard jockeys will just push the [Request more info] button on the brand new applications and actually work the ones which came around again, although even then they'll still push the [More info] button on those too to make the metrics look good.
This is eye opening
The FAA is such a beauratraic joke.
Ugh. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.
Why is the FAA so hard to deal with?
I’ve heard of other pilots having issues also
Because they farm out any tech projects to the lowest bidder, who then gives the worst product. It’s slow and archaic.
What the heck with the orange bird outside with a broken wing??
This is absurd, local DMV registers more cars per day than the FAA does in a year. They need to get this crap figured out!
Well, that sucks...that means we ain't flyin' for another month 🤣
:)
Once I knew I had all the paperwork in place, submitted, and the FAA had taken longer than their published minimum timeframe, I leaned on my US House of Representative congressman for 'help with a federal agency', and things happened nice and fast... maybe an option for you?
While it’s not flying I hope you will touch up the trim paint colors on the cowling. The airplane looks fine except for that.
Eh. Maybe. It’s a lot of $$$$
@@angleofattack- It shouldn’t be. You can easily do it yourself. Get a local place to mix up a small amount of matching colors (an auto paint store or even Lowes or Home Depot if you have them there) and with some masking tape and a small brush do the touch up. It doesn’t have to be professionally done. Even a DIY job will look better than it does now.
I have two more airplanes with registration problems and expect the same thing will happen
Send them a registered letter (needs a receipt signature) telling them that you've been waiting for them for months, they know that you've submitted everything that they require from you, not your fault that it takes months to do a ten-minute job and you'll be flying your aircraft and checking your mail regularly. That'll work... right? No, are you sure. It should. 😫😫😁😁
if the 12 months have passed (14CFR 47.31 (c)... then make application again and continue to Fly under the requirements of §47.31(c)😲, completely within the regulatory requirements and maintains the effectiveness of the Airworthiness Certificate.
aero-space reports.....Chris Sanford
They took two years to get my 150 registration done 🤬
Info commercial!
The whole FAA system needs a make over seemless service
How much longer til we need bureaucracy to handle the bureaucracy that's supposed to have handled the bureaucrats who - Nominally, supposedly - Actually do something? Your experiences with the FAA are unfortunately not too dissimilar from problems I've had with other government offices, at all levels of government above the Ohio suburb I live in. The local bureaucrats I've had to deal with tend to get moving quicker doing their jobs if for no other reason than to not have me standing in their office bothering them - Easy to do when city hall is a mile or so down the street.
They’re just so dysfunctional at the federal level. It’s astonishing.
is that 47X way in the back?
The black and red one?
@@angleofattack yeah the red one. It looks like it's on floats? If so, I've got a killer photo of it on the water that Jared took.
I wish you luck. You are law abiding and following the rules with ridiculous roadblocks to a simple solution.
I am an old guy, not running a business and not really buying into these restraints in life. Everything you said and that you have done or tried to do will qualify you as respecting the way it has to be done.
When you get old you will find you might not quite have the same feelings.
You live in Alaska for gosh sakes. Land of the new frontiers and free. Except for the long, slow arm of the FAA. Brother, what a pain!
It really is a pain. On another note, my local FAA rep helped me renew my CFI the last few days. It was painless and he was very helpful.
@angleofattack regulation and rules are to keep things safe for us all. There are good peeps in the FAA, but it has to function better rather than hold law abiding pilots hostage
YOUR REG IS VALID AS OF 04/11/24
Could you just stand still while filming?
Contact your congressional representative.
fly to oklahoma
I hired someone who delivered it to them. A little cheaper.
To many *******regulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Amen.
The aircraft can fly whenever you want. There is literally now one that there to stop you
No, but there are consequences if I do. I could also steal a car and no one would stop me. Doesn’t mean there aren’t ramifications.
Somebody ground looped that 180?
No. It had an engine out.
@@angleofattack
Dang. I’m assuming everyone was okay? Cabin looks intact.
Captain pailots airhostas
Why go to them first, though? It sounds like there’s nothing anybody can do, until some FAA clerk pulls up your account in sequence and stamps some paper for you. Calling once and sending a single email in 10 months is a terrible self-affliction. Sorry to hear you can’t fly it.
That’s not true. Had I gone to them first they could have told me how to fill out the paper work.
Is that an aircraft graveyard behind you???
Haha. No. Only that one wrecked one is defunked.
@@angleofattack the one next to it was pretty rough too. You should talk to my instructor Joe McKay in Huntsville Alabama. He has some thoughts on the FAA too.
Contact your elected FEDERAL official. Many years ago I needed $300 paper from the government printing office to get my AI. After 4 months of waiting and push off phone calls I called a FEDERAL REP. and had everything in 3 days.
I had an aircraft that directly connected with my Father's WW2 service. I couldn't fly it do to a FAA paperwork issue.12 years 4 AIs and $30.000 dollars I was so drained I finally scrapped it.
A local club sold a plane and about five years later they found out the FAA never did the sale and the new owner who had it about five states away had spent about $50.000 restoring the plane and couldn't use it.
The FAA is more screwd up than a homeless fentinal overdose.
Personally, I you could’ve avoided this if you’d done your research.
I’m on my 2nd plane, both registered to my LLC. I found it quite easy. All you need is to make sure you have your LLC documentation, your articles of organization (by laws),
Did you do this?
It’s clear as mud. Yes. I sent in the paperwork. But they wanted to know things like the citizenship of the members. How am I supposed to know all the rules? At one point I was sent a 100 page document when we were trying to fix this laying out each scenario. That’s unnecessarily complicated for a registration and it’d be hard to convince me otherwise.
Start a new LLC, sell the airplane for $1, get the 12 month grace period again?
you have a good point and legal too
I don’t think that would work.
And, slow down the already backed up system….yeah, that will help.
Not to mention if they they pull the N number, no bueno!!
It is a pity to Give power to the Gov, they will find a way to sc.... Youno matter whom period.
Hi I’m from the Federal Government here to help,but we are behind with all the inclusion training and Federal Hollidays, so leave a message at the beep,and maybe we will call you back till tone no beep!
Ah just jump on Microsoft flight sim for a few weeks, good luck 🎉
Crap news, hope ya get it sorted.
Why are you assuming the gender of your plane? 😂
you move around too much, you are hard to follow.
Ok, Dennis. Thanks for the feedback.
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