Retro VGS Console Controversy (Part 1) -
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- A discussion of the Retro VGS console and the controversy around its crowdfunding campaign. Part 2: bit.ly/1NXdIi4
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Pat is a retro gamer with the sense to realize that the future of retro games isn't in retro game media. It's about THE GAMES, not slapping a slab of plastic into your console.
+mattorama That's true. Original systems are still desired, and will be for a long time. Nothing tickles your nostalgia like snapping a cartridge into place. That has nothing to do with the quality of the games though, and people without that nostalgia couldn't care less, and certainly don't want to pay the high prices for original hardware. Old games appeal to younger players through quality and fun, not through nostalgia, and honestly, that's better.
+Garrette truth in that, why I recently got a Nintendo 64 a good again recently.
+Brandon K Smh at myself ignore that a good lol
real hardware is great and all. I own a NES,SNES,N64,c64,etc.. but for me playing retro games on the Raspberry Pi still scratches that itch pretty well for 30 bucks. i don't see people spending 200-300 on this system
+zimThuet why is it the newer generation's fault? Maybe you just look too fondly upon the old ways to notice all the garbage it made and despise the new ways to see all the gems it has made
"Cartridges are better because they require no updates." That's some A-grade horseshit right there. Cartridges has nothing to do with the quality of a software and there is no such thing as bug-free software. You might have software thoroughly tested to prevent common bugs, but you can't guarantee a software to be bug-free -It's virtually impossible to do so.
anonamatron You're welcome.
+Jeferson Oliveira Yeah, but you could at least insure that it is idiot proof.
therrydicule
Cartridges have their pros over other types of media for sure, but the VGS guys didn't mention any of them; they preferred to come up with PR bullshit instead.
The main advantage of cartridge based games at this point is their durability.
That said, some bugs just give some character to some old games... They are not so bad.
But some bugs are so bad you almost have to restart the game from the start...
It's almost like people should stop trying to do this or something. For 300-500 bucks you can build yourself a small PC you can stick under the TV fairly easily using an APU or an Athlon X4 with a 750ti/950/R9 260x/R9 265 that will tear through everything. Heck with a dedicated GPU you could easily use PSCSX2 2-4x scaling np. Most Dolphin games would be playable at 1080p with a few exceptions. That's a lot better value for your dollar then these things offer.
You would also be able to play all the indie games on steam and all the modern titles with low-medium details at 1080p on top of all the emulators.
"Hurf durf durf old games never had any bugs!"
HAHAHAHAHA!
Damn people have some MAJOR fucking nostalgia goggles about the 8-bit and 16-bit era.
+saint boot if a ps4 game has a bug your console won't explode, it's the same with the N64 just because your console still works doesn't mean that your games don't have glitches. so you lose other stranger
+saint boot just because it turns on dosent mean it has no bugs. are you special?
+RaithSienar I think a lot of the interest in this is coming from people who were born in the mid 90's or later. They experienced retro games in the 2000's so never knew of the horror of getting a game they knew nothing about and finding it to be full of bugs or just a piece of shit.
+The Bad Elf 2600 Pacman
You know, I never bought a game for the NES that I couldn't actually play. I've never had it force me to wait hours in a queue to access a server. I've never had unplayable framerates, or bugs so severe that I couldn't finish the game. I've bought games that weren't very good. Plenty of times. But past the Atari 2600 era where anyone could make and sell whatever garbage they wanted, bugs and glitches were fairly under control. It was never as bad as today, where big companies release games that are unplayable.
"Say no to patches and scratches". Oh dear, if they really believe that games can be made, bug free, guaranteed, they are deluded. The only important thing is they convince enough of the public that that is possible.
The caleco chameleon was in the thumbnail of a recent vid, so now I am reliving this glorious saga by rewatching all of CUpodcast coverage.
I have a strong feeling this will flop.
+Darkstar263 its not going to flop probably they go back to the drawing board and make the console cheaper and have a prototype to show people.
+P Ferreira They're trying to make this as good as today's consoles which is why its expensive. It should be built like an retro console and made in China to keep costs down.
agreed but until I see some games in going to keep my mouth shut
***** dead as the rotting carcass in my closet.
Appealing to Indies? Lol no, so many indie games are programmed in C++ or made in Unity/UE4/whatever, not Assembly.
"Bug free"
They clearly forgot about Pokemon Red, Blue, Yellow and Green. There's also the Bug/Glitch classic, Action 52.
This is a stupid idea by people who have no idea what they are doing.
Patching can be either good or bad, it can be good when you find a game breaking glitch missed in beta testing and QC testing. But it's bad when you have a company release a glitch or incomplete game and using patches to fix and complete things.
Why did people ever think this thing had a chance?
If it has local storage, or a fully functional USB slot it woulda been possible for games to have some kind of patches, at least while running.
wow, this was 2 years ago. Aside from the trainwreck this and the CC became, this was my absolute favorite story that you guys have ever covered. It makes me wish more people would have unachievable pie in the sky ideas that turn into outright scams.
Man I'm coming in hot 5 years later to get buck wild with my 10th viewing of this saga lol. It was so entertaining.
watching the complete* (*as of 10/13/23) Amico coverage and then going back and starting this is crazy, they look so young
Is that a fuckin' _Mr. Driller_ shirt?! Oh, Ian... My opinion of you just leveled the hell up.
you live!
Mr driller!!!!
i've shipped a les paul guitar in a hard shell case for only about $30, lol.
"Retro game systems" are mostly ripoffs. A Raspberry Pi, emulator, original console, or EverDrive cart are all better choices.
Amen sir!
+N00biePwner The best choice for a "Retro Game System" is a PC with a selection of emulators and the LaunchBox frontend. ;) (Google it)
Wow the floodgates open, respect you for holding back until all the facts were in. Love the podcast!
I can buy an Atari Jaguar boxed in really good condition cheaper than this!
QA.
QA.
Not Q&A.
QA.
You want to make a software Quality Assurance specialist to scream? Say they work in Q&A.
I love how Pat is so forthcoming with critique, even though he knows Mike Kennedy. In the end, a pipe dream is a pipe dream. Three grown men should be able to see that this is not doable - at all.
This is gonna be dead faster than the Ouya Ill be damned to pay 300 bucks to fund to get a console when I can get the couple of games I think look interesting like Peir Solar or Gunlord I can play elsewhere and with no prototype made or hardware shown working it seems shady to me and if this succeeds with them manufacturing carts what happens when they cant meet manufacturing needs it doesnt seem like there has been a lot of thought out into this.
+Matt Skirble Funny enough many of the games announced i have been playing on my Ouya.
The Ouya is a great little emulator. But it basicly does no more than hooking your phone up to a TV and using bluetooth controllers.
+Matt Skirble Exactly. The makers of this system just can't seem to understand that. This campaign is so full of fail.
They think cartridges are bug free? 2 words SUPERMAN 64.
I feel like this is the true origin of the Intellivison Amico. That Tommy saw this and thought "I could do that, but actually make it" and then made the same, if not worse, mistakes.
This whole VGS thing smells of sketch to me.
2 mill for a prototype? The friggin Power Glove was prototyped for like $5 and the medical/science models before hand were prototyped (with a Mac PC) for $20,000.
The point of inventions, is to HAVE something invented FIRST and then you sell it's rights or find partners for investment or production, last.
And all this extra money for a gold one? How come Apple can release their Alloy Body devices (that cost WAY MORE MONEY than these shells) for no cost difference for gold, black, silver, etc.
This thing just screams "I want 2 million to retire for life", as after he has the money, it'll probably cost him $300-400 to prototype this and be like "look we prototyped it, but we can't make it, sorry, thanks for the money, bye!".
Get a fucking loan and prototype your machine and then put it on Kickstater. IndieGoGo is for bands and stuff. Not stuff like this.
Maybe i'm way too harsh but i'm not buying any of this.
Oh let's add to the fact that they want 2 mill to prototype this, but want to sell something that costed them 2 mill to prototype...for $300?
I'll buy a prototype for $2-3 grand. Then you melt it down to be consumer ready for a low cost, your $300 margin.
A 2 mill prototype, is getting into high end tech levels of stuff.
+Eric Durant Exactly !!.....Foolish to donate money for a project that's not even off of the ground yet (vaporware). And what happens to the money donated if the projected amount is not reached ?? You loose and somebody walks away with a shitload of money....
Rewatching this is such a trip.
its hilarious that they proclaim "cant be patched" is a selling point. yes, we all get it - NEEDING to patch sucks. games being released unfinished sucks.
but the inability to patch out potential bugs isnt a selling point, lol... what dummies.
Personally, I would love to see what the SNES or Genesis was really capable of without the limitations of ROM or RAM capacity. For example, I'd love to see an SNES CD game with all the enhancements the hardware would have brought including SRAM and coprocessors. A huge multi-GB game cart like a 3DS game with a ton of high-speed SRAM and a co-processor could really impress.
in retrospect i think the evercade took a similar idea (a new cartridge-based system with re-released retro games and indies) and made something much better and more focused out of it. these projects work best when they aren't shooting for the moon or solving a made-up problem and instead trying to just be a fun niche (and relatively inexpensive) thing.
The issue wasn't any of those things though. Before the fraud was made so apparent, the issue at this point was that the price was absolutely ludicrous for the console and the cartridges.
The evercade was made and released cheaply and they made their carts *cheap* as well as ensuring each had multiple titles.
The evercade isn't just more focused - it's completely different
Sad part is, a similar idea actually worked. Just look at the Evercade. It uses cartridges, allows for play of retro games and even newly made games for those retro systems, and its even portable. It also allows for updates to fix glitches and problens without constant updates interrupting the user.
The coleco chameleon was going to be new unique games
@@bricethompson1922 Except it wasn't. It was mostly indie games that were available elsewhere, or playing games from other existing comsoles
You have a good radio voice Pat. I've only seen you on AVGN, interesting podcast. Good job man
I was at Game On Expo too and thanks Pat for the NES Controller sign, and having a Photo Op with you.
I did a lot of talk with Mike Kennedy for the Retro VGS which I talk about the cost and specs........When he said about the price about 300 which you can get a Wii U.
I should've more time to talk to him and now you're bringing this up. It really makes me want to ask more since how the hell does patches or something that's broken for a game on a cartridge. Hell even when its a cartridge there are other games that are broken. Even if they trying to save money for a Jaguar Model like how can that work or appeal to the audience for the die hard Retro Fans or anybody to solve the problems within the Xbox One, PS4, and Wii U.
Look at Ouya when it came out and right now they just pull the plug.
Who knows even if it's the beginning, but pull something better out of it.
Anyways that's my experience around the Retro VGS during Game On Expo.
Even when games are on PC, you can still get screwed with not getting any patches. Especially when a company does not care.
Love how passionate Ian is 👍
Think they just mean game breaking bugs on half ass games like assassins creed. Not lil bugs that are found after years of playing.
Steam is the best place for retro-like games without the need for additional hardware. That's the failure. Here is how they should market it. Aim for a niche of programmers who like an affordable SDK to make, test and play retro style games and the games can be played on cross platforms for people who don't have the console. The Retro doesn't have to die but market for game designers.
It didn't look like the games have end labels either. That would suck.
Very well said Pat/Ian. Tyler and I basically said the same thing when we covered this on the bucket on Wed. We really wanted this to be awesome, but they really dropped the ball.
If a modern Cartridge game used flash memory, why couldn't a patch be applied while the Cartridge is in the system? Wouldn't it be similar to patching a game that's on your hard drive?
Just a quick note: the FPGA would be the processor - if you had the time you could reverse engineer any of the processors for any console and put that code into an FPGA to emulate the entire processor, rather than emulation which is an approximation of how the processor works. This is a huge challenge though - I don't know anyone who has a complete SNES FPGA etc.
One thing I would love to see if this thing comes out, Lock on carts for patches/ "dlc" Sonic and Knuckles was like the only game to really use this, but there is so much potential there.
I agree that this is going to bomb big time.
But as far as the point concerning game cartridges and being unable to patch them... there were tons of console games produced through the 80's & 90's that were buggy or had glitches, and people still love those games to this day. Can't minor "glitches" be kinda charming in a way? Does it really matter that much as long as the game is playable?
Being unable to patch games is a good thing
+VideoTape I absolutely agree. I am very excited about fallout 4, but I'm going to wait to get it until sometime into next year. almost all newer games have to be patched. look at ubisoft
+VideoTape being able to patch the games is good but the way developers have abused it is bad.
+Homer sams im not trying to be an ass. but would you want to buy a car and the first day after purchase it had to be racalled? yes new devs/publishers take advantage but if they make bad games they would stop selling
Homer sams If the patch is a re-release of the game on a different cartridge or CD then I don't care. But if the patch has to be downloaded then that's shit.
I imagine Retro VGS versions of homebrew or indie retro-style games coming at least a year after some download version, being a final version with all added content and patches etc....... I would imagine if the console launches decently that it's up to the fanbase to support games responsibly: be vocal in supporting games that clearly are final editions, and be highly skeptical of games that launch on Retro VGS near the same time as Steam/PSN/XBL etc.
Thank you Pat for explaining all of this to me. Saw the phone interview with Mike Kennedy over at another YT channel and as I listened I sat and just shook my head, then I found the forum on Atari Age and there someone had said you had put a video in regards to this controversy and thank you - now I understand and still shake my head in regards to this. Also, for the games, the ones they do show, one or two of them just looked to be a reskinned version of a game that is/has already been out for years and if that is the case - I wonder what the legality of all that is? For them to bug free, there could be a way - have a very, very small limited amount of the games for purchase. They could say that these are the special edition first run games, charge more, then a few months, say well, we have a second run of these boom - huge cash grab and because the collectors will spend a ton of cash, they are taking advantage of their wallets - smh
I dont see how packaging games on cartridges necessarily prevents future updates or additional content releases, so long as the system has it's own internal hard drive and/or RAM which I assume it must have. You could still have the main base game on a cartridge and then have downloadable additions or even updates that require reworking of much of the main base game code, the updated state would just have to be stored.
I just feel like emulators have already rendered this retro system completely superfluous...
Ew it looks like the Jaguar. That's not a good sign of anything.
FPGAs are used in flash carts as well, they're basically reprogrammed for each ROM to hardware emulate the game's cartridge
Recent examples are Guacamelee and Shovel Knight had cool additional content added later.
holy cow, Ian was extra polite to Pat this part.
I'm sure when they stated 'bug-free' they were referring to no read errors like on a disk. It's still bull, but they were likely saying cartridges can't be scratched.
Hey Ian, you probably see a tonne of 3rd party peripherals and controllers coming through your store. Are there any you would recommend? Pat, are there any you've found?
+PitCru4Life I like the new model Yobo 64 controllers and a few of the 3rd party Genesis and Saturn controllers. I can't remember off the top of my head who made them but they had names like SG-6 and such. Really robust and comfortable.
Hyperkin/Cirka make a line of "heavy duty" SNES cons and Genesis cons that the customers seem to like. My experience with the Gen one was positive but I'd need to give both more time.
+Pat the NES Punk - This thing is way too expensive.
An FPGA capable of running pretty much everything from the Atari 2600 up to the Amiga (Minimig AGA), Atari ST, Atari Jaguar and Genesis only costs around $15-$20.
After that, you just stick a $9 SDRAM chip on there, some connectors and a few other parts, and it would still cost way less than $300.
I've designed similar FPGA boards recently that can run most of the open-source retro cores available.
I'm also working on a new multi-cart system which will eventually even include NeoGeo cart support (think Retron 5, but WITHOUT using emulation or stolen code)...
postimg.org/image/7lojva33n/
I would like to know if the retro cores the VGS will be using are actually open-source?
I can't imagine the founders writing their own cores for it, so they would have to supply the source code too?
(Otherwise, we could be back in "Hyperkin" territory. lol)
I like the idea of the Retro VGS as a concept, but it's clearly costing them more to produce than they expected, probably in part due to having the proper moulds for the case etc.?
I'm a bit shocked that they apparently don't have a working prototype to show though, it's not exactly THAT difficult nor expensive to get a small board running before starting a crowdfunding campaign?
One of my prouder moments is paying attention to this saga as it was unfolding
Thanks for showing us what a cartridge is. I had no idea.
You could have a sealed jaguar for cheaper, and it would probably end up having a better library too 😄
Dang...focus, Ian! You're so blurry!
Funny that they claim cartridges don't require updates or patches, but they're merely incapable of receiving any. It's as if they are claiming that by virtue of the fact that cartridges are read-only, they are somehow impervious to bugs. It's actually quite the opposite, they won't be able to fix any bugs once the game is written to the cartridge. Just because you never had to worry about updating and patching your games doesn't mean the games you were playing were bug-free.
No updates? So if a game is broken..its just always broken?
+metaltrout9 Rose colored glasses? Isn't that the term?
Ouya 2.0
+Epicguy456 Not really. The Ouya was just too advanced for it's time. The next generation of consoles will most likely be what the Ouya was. Hell, Playstation Now is what the Ouya was.
+Lamp Skewed it was. other technology wasn't there. not fast enough internet
+Lamp Skewed then tell me what really was wrong with it.
The only difference is that those old Games(for the most part) still worked properly and their glitches(in most cases) had to be seeked out. look at the first Pokemon Games, they had countless bugs, many of which are still being found to this day, but those have special requirements that need to be met in order to activate them.
The reason why the CD, later DVD and Blu-ray, replaced the cartridges, is simple. Cartridges are basically PCBs inside a plastic case, that include a ROM memory, sometimes a SRAM with a battery or an EEPROM to save games. PCBs are expensive, and the sizes you could get with those are no match for a digital CD/DVD or Blu-Ray disc, which are way cheaper.
You might think, "hey! Cartridges are harder to reproduce! That means, less piracy!", but this statement is completely WRONG. Back in the early 90's, even before the internet was a thing, there were console clones, and reproduction cartridges of original games. China was an expert on this, by the way. So Piracy was a thing already, even in the 80's.
"But cartridges are more durable, they do not scratch and stop working!" Remember what happens in Pokemon, if the battery runs out? Sure, you can still open it (using tricks that do not break the cartridge, since the screw requires a special tool) and replace the battery every 10 years or so. But what's the point?
So the question here is, what's the point on going back to cartridges? It's totally unprofitable for both the developers, and the consumers. And there is absolutely no need for that. If you go for retro gaming, go for retro gaming. Just because the game runs on a cartridge doesn't mean it's going to be more retro-alike.
If someone was to crowdfund something like the retron 5 ...but a lot better i would be very happy. Though i think with cartridges the file size would have been so small if on a usb stick or dvd i really cannot see loading being a issue
If Pat knows Mike Kennedy, wouldn't it be possible to get him on the Podcast for an interview? On the Retro VGS' Facebook he said he would had been open to it and addressed all of the thing they have a problem with
Cartridges will cost due to manufacturing. Licensing fees may be impulsive too.
How do you submit questions to the show?
+Mitjitsu Twitter
Old games didn't have bugs. They had "features"
You guys are missing the point. They aren't claiming to release bug free games, but rather implying that game breaking bugs that make you totally unable to advance in gameplay won't be there, unlike every other AAA title that gets released today that gets a day 1 (or God forbid, weeks later) patch release. The AAA NES library had a ton of bugs, but rarely anything game breaking.
That price for shipping is outrageous.
Drinking Game: 1) Drink every time Ian Talks with his eyes closed. 2) 2x Drinks for Ian interrupting pat. 3) Drink when Ian or Pat drinks.
I was really excited for this system then I talked to the guys at Gameon. They have priced it way beyond what I would pay. It's a niche item and it cannot have a price comparable to modern systems. I'm a fan of what the Ouya attempted and still play mine I think you can have a killer indie console for $150 carts, no carts, or digital only.
i feel like somebody could pull off a "cartridge experience" emulator box where the carts are just a plastic shell with a small SD card embedded in them that the console reads. if it looked authentic enough collectors would dig it. it could even connect to wifi and patch the game on the cart. probably wouldn't ever be mainstream but I could see it in the small retro enthusiast market, especially if it was miniature and cute
Interesting discussion. As long as the games work well, I don't mind what system it's on. But I prefer the original when possible.
Watch their video pat and Ian.. They talk about the controller (and other problems you bring up), it's poorly reviewed for the wireless connection, not the control functions. Their one is wired so should be fine.
I miss the fact games were released and had bugs. I never complained back in the day, it's nice having an instant on system, cartridge based and no load times. Sure, they have 1.1 and 1.2 carts sometimes.. but I like their idea.
I love how people complain about glitches and bugs today, but I grew up with that stuff since I remember playing the Sega Genesis. I mean, anyone remember the Phantasy Star 4 Level 99 bug? That was fun going from 99 to 98, then Level 97, 96, and so on and so forth.
Cartridge games could come back. Something like the 3DS or games on SD cards of some sort that can write and rewrite data and you could have updates.
this thing could bring back the 16 bit era of PC gaming. Scumm games like Lucas arts PACs, classics like twinsons odyssey the original duke nukem and crusader etc etc etc these games need a home on consoles even now.
Price seems to be the biggest problem with this console (or idea, as it stands). For $300, you could get yourself some decent retro gaming hardware save for especially rare/collectors consoles. Unless you already own an NES, SNES, Genesis, Master System, TurboGrafx, Atari, so on and so forth, you could spend that money getting one or more of those consoles and invest in games that have established quality. As someone who collects casually for the Dreamcast, Saturn, SNES and N64, I see absolutely no value in hardware like this when there are still many great games that I've yet to discover and play for the consoles I do own. And that is not even considering the competition for my depressingly limited time and money from PC and modern console games. I just can't wrap my head around who this is aimed at, because both shelf collectors and sensible retro gamers have much better alternatives to spend their resources on.
There should be a fan blowing Ian's hair at all times.
They should actually make gunlord a game!
EDIT: Nevermind! It's already a game! FRAUDS!!!!
The high price and no prototype are what killed the RetroVGS for me.
I really wanted to see the RetroVGS be successful but I guess its not meant to be.
I wonder what will happen to the molds after this fails hard?
they'll probably just end up at some landfill in New Mexico.
sold to dental offices
+SotNist dental plan.
Bedpans.
They probably don't even have any. The picture is probably a photoshop mockup.
Thank you so much for this. I was never close to pulling the trigger but this has been very helpful.
The games that were supposed to be playable would be comprised of anything from Atari 2600 era to PS2 era. As in the Retron VGS will have 3d graphics capability. So I'm assuming any of the current mobile games should be able to run on the VGS via cartridge. The company has radically changed it's plans, but there communication is absolutley terrible.
Up to 70 lbs, as long as it fits Priority Mail Flat Rate USPS small box is 5.95!!! You'll get 50 bucks free insurance & at the most 3 days! ya that shipping they are charging is nuts!!
i'd love an update vid on this because i think they do have a proto now
bugs that speedrunners use are INSANE though.. like you have to be on the exact pixel and do a certain movement at the exact time and it can take multiple times for it to even work.. the fact that people have even found some of them is mind boggling!
the NX will be a cart based system. Saying carts are dead that's jumping the gun. Even a DVD or Blue ray has its limitations. Even a DVD 18 dual layer has a max capacity of only 17.95GB a flash can hold a lot higher capacity . Problem with DLC the illegal downloading. Carts will be back sooner or later. Nintendo are even working on their own cartridge chips to stop illegal copying and will be put into the NX carts .
the Indiegogo has been discontinued as of today, they claim that they will re-launch in a few weeks after going back to FPGA and adding people and getting a prototype done. I'll believe it when I see it. I followed them on Facebook in the hopes that there would be something good to come out of this, then it all fell apart a bit over a week ago.
This is $527 (Australian dollars) Including shipping
That's an insane price, and that's just for the black console, I was interested in this at first, but my interest fizzled immediately.
So, I kind of like the idea behind this thing, but they don't seem to be executing it in the way I would want...
I mean, first off, using an Atari Jaguar mold I feel is just... a poor choice. Those consoles were notorious for not being able to read carts because of not having a dust flap over the cartridge port.
Second, I feel like... if they're going to make this kind of thing, they shouldn't just be making it an emulation box, or a tiny PC that reads carts. They should create proprietary graphics & sound hardware and court a dedicated group of developers, and market it to the niche market who would want this kind of thing... myself included. Sure, that would limit the amount of games being made for the thing, but it would at least give the console an identity instead of being this "jack of all trades" box with an off-the-shelf controller.
Lastly, I like the idea of a new cartridge-based console. I think it could work in a big way for a niche video game console... not just for nostalgia's sake, but just in terms of overall aesthetics. I feel like... a lot of people forget about the aesthetics of technology and feel like it doesn't actually matter. However, just look at Apple's design and aesthetic choices for their phones & computers... I use a PC, myself, but I have a lot of respect for Apple's aesthetics.
In some respects, I guess I can see the argument of aesthetics not mattering for technology, but on the other hand, don't they matter in almost every other aspect of our life? Why should tech be simply limited to utilitarian, uninspired design?
All of that being said, the fact that the Retro VGS didn't even design new carts and are simply using Jaguar carts a jaguar mold, and off-the-shelf controllers makes the whole thing much less appealing to me.
I still believe somebody out there can do this right, but the people making the Retro VGS seem to be doing a ton of things wrong.
Wouldn't one of the advantages of cartridges is that they CAN be updated and updated pernamently? People lament about updating huge new games, but why couldn't a game be updated straight to its own cartridge?
Pat and Ian's rant about bugs is mostly bullshit. All those bugs used in speedruns mostly aren't gamebreaking are hard to pull off well most of them and won't really be noticed unless your a speddrunner who goes looking for them.
Also pat and ian are right this is mostly for collectors most gamers would prefer to get the game cheaper of steam or wherever. really the whole retro video game market is niche and this caters to that niche. Hell the fact that battle kid and repros exist means that people who their games on carts albiet a very very small number of people.
I actually agree with Ian here. This really does seem like it's more for the collector and is just retro in name only. And as much as i like my SNES carts, i dont see why carts are something to be thought of as 'superior' lol. That makes absolutely no sense. It's one thing to be nostalgic and to simply like the old school format. But objectively, there really isn't many pros toward carts compared to many of the other types of media distribution that have come out over the years.
Although I think a lot of your comments are correct, some are fundamentally wrong. For example, it is not pitched as an automatic configurating emulator based on the FPGA. You simply cannot do that due to copyright on chipsets. They could not simply emulate a 68000 in the FPGA and publish a game. I don't believe they ever said this. You can technically of course but calling it an machine that plays old carts just isn't right. That is not the message they're sending out. They want devs to publish new games on the hardware based on the ARM chip plus whatever they want to do with the FPGA. Using cartridges. I agree with you - I think it'll flop but fundamentally it was never meant to be an emulator machine per se.
Awesome discussion Pat and Ian! What's funny is they are using a shell of a console which was overhyped and ultimately crashed Atari. It probably didn't do so well as dental equipment either. It's cursed!!! lol
I would really hope anyone thinking of buying this would realize a game is down to it's code, not it's media. Although a cart does have the advantage that a scratch on its case will not virtually destroy it :) There were bugs on the old games consoles from time to time same as any other systems,. Being on a cart prevented updates as we see them now, so they had to try to get it right on release, not a bad thing. I never understand these crowd funded consoles of late, they really have no chance against the big boys. The only people who could make a console like this that would work and sell would be Sega and Nintendo themselves. Now if those two could get together and make something along this line there would be way more interest.
I agree on the whole hardware aspect. Working prototype is a must and the price needs to go down.
The whole "get the hot new indygame" thing is bs however. I have no problem waiting a few month. Hell, I'd wait a few years if necessary. There are loads of games right now that will not get any additional content anymore that I would buy on cartridge. Also if I buy a game on cartridge I very much understand that possible future content will be excluded. I just don't care. If the base game is good, why sweat it?
Listen to how calmly they talk about it in this video compared to how they laugh at it later and get angry even later.