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John Petrucci's cheap guitar STILL Sucks!!
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- čas přidán 4. 11. 2022
- You guys gave me some great feedback on how to "rescue" this guitar... unfortunately, the results haven't really helped much! Get my FREE 2022 V30 Impulse at: spectredigital...
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There's something sort of metal about a guitar that needs to be punched to stay in tune.
Poor guitar is being abused and everyone is laughing
Well, I'M certainly laughing
I've just remembered a picture of Nathan Explosion face with "BRUTAL" word on the bottom
YES. AND no....
Sux being conflicted like this.
I'll give Dmitry Dobriy the nod here. I can CERTAINLY see the Metalocalypse POV here.
On one hand, it's "BRUTAL" and therefore "TOTALLY METAL". (Nathan Explosion voice in my head)
On the other, money is no object and the best technology available or yet to be developed can "fix it".
@@macgyver77777 thats why i've finally found a solution of headaches, and bought a japanese hardtail ibanez rg prestige. It djents, it metalls, it plays jazz, and its easy to maintain as a f.
Good for anger issues I suppose 😂
It may be a budget or a beginner model , But if your name is on it then it should be a quality instrument and be playable.
Definitely a reasonable sentiment.
Exactly
So that was the problem with those Kerry king warlocks
I've had many budget and beginner models, for example my Jackson JSS2-7 and LTD MH-50 which were both much cheaper than my Sterling JP60 that were flawless unlike the Sterling that had cracks down the side of the fretboard on each fret and had the trem screws pop out suddenly without me doing anything to the intonation. I bought it brand new.
I order most of my guitars online because in my third world country most of these guitars are hard to come by, the least I could expect is a decent instrument for 800 dollars when I've had better for much less.
If the same guy that replied on the last vid replies again, no, a lot of us order our gear online before we test them because there isn't any other way to test em' or get them. I bet there's a lot of people here who do that, whether they're in the states or outside. A budget model with a name like Petrucci attached to it shouldn't have this much flaws in the build.
Isn’t that guitar he’s playing like $1,200 new?
This is proof that name is not the game, its always the build quality, set up and the DETAILS. Why does any guitar builder have those hand shredder! Keep rocking Glenn!
This is a proof that you should not buy 2nd hand gear.
I nowadays never buy guitars as second handed because 99% of the time the previous owner have done something really stupid and they are too lazy to fix it. The issues are something what you cant see that from the pictures. I think in Glen's case the previous owner have somehow managed to totally fuck up the guitar which then unfortunately means that this video doesn't give a real credit to the guitar what it deserves. Glen could complain about the JP100 if it would be brand new, just like the Gibson Mustaine V was. But since it is not, I think it is unfair. I could buy some used ESP and say how shit it is because previous owner pooped on it.
@@GeneralMiller92FIN nahhhhh I disagree with you. This model is a pain in the ass particulary.
The sentence "Why does any guitar builder have those hand shredder!" confuses me so much
@@Memu_ Why does any guitar builder (fender, ibanez, joe scmoe even) have those hand shredder(s)! I was refering to those allen screws he was complaining about, it takes 30¢ of different materials to use the correct length, lol
@@GeneralMiller92FIN bro, they don’t make these any more! ICYMI, almost all of these are now only available on the used market!
I do agree that yes, some previous owners DO mess around with things they don’t quite understand.
However, Glenn DID try getting this thing set up to play as any guitar should, even brand new and it still played terrible.
So no, this review is very fair. He put in the work to give as fair a review as possible and believe me: it’s pretty fair.
Perhaps look at who Petrucci is partnering now for his signature guitar because it sure isn’t Music Man!
In the before shot you said the bridge was level, it wasn't. Angle wise it was leaning into the body, you were supposed to loosen the springs and tighten the strings to have it slightly up. There is no reason to raise the bridge up and lower the saddles right down. Your bridge angle looks fine now, take the tension off and drop the bridge height, then set the action with the saddles one the two e's to a measurement, then set the remaining four with a radius gauge.
I hope he will see this...
It’s not out enough to cause problems. If a Floyd rose is nearly level, it still has superior tuning stability..
@@Timbo6669 you don't get it.
He has that bridge all fucked up now. Fulcrum point is too high. I have the same SBMM model with the Koa Top and nothing is "shredding" my hand🙄. We also have no idea if the Low E is just binding at the nut. If the bridge wasn't returning to the resting or neutral point, the other strings would be off-pitch as well, not just one. This guy is much too much with his click-bait title bullshit.
@@Timbo6669 nope floyds have to be on set to the correct intonation flat then low e has to be above the fulcrum high e has to be dead on or slightly below
"My blocked trem hold tune perfectly!"
I WAS IN TEARS FOR 10 MINUTES GLENN 🤣😂🤣
A suggestion for a follow-up video: have the guitar set-up by a professional luthier. I'd be interested to see if someone like that could fix the problems with a thorough going-over.
Of course they can.
All they need is right there.
Glenn can take it to the luthier and get it fixed and it would solve its problems but that would defeat the purpose of the guitar in the first place. Which is a beginner guitar with someone's big name on it needs to be quality and not a piece of work.
@@EnmaMusicProduction it's like 600$ that's no begginer guitar lmao
@@MetalheadArepa Yeah it is more like just a budget guitar in general. Beginner guitars are like 100-200$. If this guitar is set up properly, which many are it is actually a good guitar, better then many in the 700-900$ range. Many, not all in case someone feel like getting out some aggression and choose me as a punching bag lol.
@@birdsteak9267 .
[Saitama has entered the chat]
The saddles don’t have to be level with the body it’s the baseplate that should be level with the body. You could drop the baseplate and increase the string height with the saddles. This won’t have a negative impact on tuning stability and will save your hands from being shredded.
Frudua guitars has a good tutorial on setting up a two post vibrato….you need to do a tension set on the strings and the bridge
The issue here is almost certainly the nut
He put a graph tech nut on it in the last video.
@@nicktopping2484 Even a Graphtech nut can have flaws.
@@peachmelba1000 true, but when the guitar has had the same tuning issues with two separate nuts, it starts to look more likely that the root of the problem might be something else.
Another thing, you can get shorter saddle bolts so they won't stick out the top of the saddles. I had to do this on my teles because the bolts were dangerously high.
alternatively, if you have access to a belt sander, grinder, etc you can also take the old bolts out and trim a mm or two off the bottom. Had ro do that with my last 7 string, shipped with saddle bolts too short, and hobby store only had one size length, so i trimmed the new ones to match the radius
I filed mine smooth because I was putting holes in my hand.
Petrucci actually talked about this design in a Music Man marketing video some years back. When started designing his signature guitar with Ernie Ball he requested a locking nut just like his Ibanez used to have. Sterling Ball talked him out of the idea promising him that a properly designed guitar that is set up correctly does not go out of tune even if it has a floating tremolo and no locking nut. And if it does all you have to do is do a quick push of the trem arm (lower the tension and then bring it back) to reset the strings and bring it back in tune.
And from my experience, that aspect works. But it's clear that the cheaper line of guitars has severe quality assurance issues. I count myself lucky that my 7 string is set up alright.
So I have to write my songs around doing that?? 😂 I just stick to guitars with real terms when I need one.
I wouldn’t take this as representative of the performance of the actual guitars Petrucci uses, or of any decent non locking system. Plenty of people use non locking systems by choice, logically they can’t all be this bad.
If these tuning issues are a result of the bridge itself not returning to exactly the same position each time it’s used or a string is bent, then having a locking nut wouldn’t help the situation much if at all. Certainly poor quality double locking systems can be similarly problematic.
If I remember correctly, EBMM did more recently make a version of the Petrucci sig with a Floyd Rose, but the man himself tends to use the Majesty model which has a non locking system. I think we can probably take that as an indication that the tuning stability on the high end USA models is at least good enough for his purposes. (Bearing in mind that he is certainly no Vai when it comes to vibrato bridge abuse…)
Sounds EBMM terms have the same problem and solution as Kahler. And there is a JP model that came with a floyd trem and that is the JP16.
GLEEEENNNN!!! My best guess on the issue of that trem is that the knife edge, where the it meets the screw, is damaged. This causes the edge to jump to the higher thread on the screw when bending causeing it to gonout of tune, then when you smack it, it goes back to the next lower thread and going back in tune.
Only way to really fix it is to file that knife edge back to a sharp edge so it doesn't jump threads.
Might have also damaged the thread on the screw as well. Hard to say from just the video.
Its a bit of work though. Have to take it all apart. File the edge, check the screw, reassemble and do another full setup.
I'm sure it was better from the factory. The knife edge getting damaged is likely the result of someone cranking it up and down to adjust the action under tension.
right!
There are no threads on the fulcrum point.
In music theory terms, what the "tremolo" bar does is actually a vibrato, Leo Fender, who famously didn't know anything about music, called it a tremolo by mistake and it just kind of stuck, so much so that most guitarists who know better, including me, still just call it a "tremolo".
Shhh! 🤫
Isn’t tremolo that effect of the signal cutting in and out quickly that was a thing in the 60’s?
Tremolo is a change in volume, vibrato is a change in pitch.
Tuning issues must make up the bulk of the work load for guitar techs and luthiers.
I have learned over the years how to fix them and setup my own guitars.
Having spent a lifetime in electronic repairs has helped me understand where the issues
are and what is required to fix them.
However you soon realise that some guitars are so bad that the cost of new parts alone
is just not worth it.
All my guitars have bone or self lubricating nuts, some bad bridges can be fixed, some
are best thrown away.
I think this one has reached that point, at least you have warned us to avoid it.
The neck ANGLE is the reason the screws on the saddles are sticking out the top of the saddles. Shimming the neck a few degrees will give you more adjustment on the saddle’s screws into the saddles. That is of course if that is a bolt-on neck.
3:30 And Bigsby calls their parts "Vibrato".
Yeah, it's ultimately contrived and most people just adapt Tremolo as the name for a bridge, but Tremolo is supposed to describe the effect of Volume fading in and out and Vibrato is supposed to describe the effect of a note constantly changing pitch, which is exactly what you do with the bridge.
It's not even like those effects are easily confused because they sound similar. Side-Chaining has two meaning.
Not trying to be fickle, I've mostly just conceded to the common name (Tremolo just rolls off the tongue better), but it's not confounded even though it's not a hill worth dying on.
Doc Kaufman's original Vibrola patent way back in the 1930's pretty much randomly and loosely flips between describing it as vibrato and tremolo in the patent wording. So even nearly 100 years ago while theres technically a difference between modulating volume and pitch, nobody really cared about the pedantic nerdery that much. They used the terms interchangeably then, the same as we mostly do now. While tremolo is technically wrong, ~100 years of wrong common usage is too much common parlance to overturn. It's just a linguistic curiosity we'll have to live with.
@@PaulCooksStuff *cue every Mandela effect that the greater public always disbelieves*
Yeah , I actually got a proper Musicman JP60 and when I first got it the tuning was all over the place, and it had the proper musicman tremolo system which is meant to be far superior. I know you have already covered the nut issue possibility , but i had to add a bit of Vaseline into the slots of the nut to fix the tuning issues on my Musicman! It was fine ever since.. But yeah, no excuse for a guitar at this price to behave the way it does.
Petroleum though.
I use the Music Nomad lube which has a nice little applicator for getting into tight spaces. Sexy, huh?
@@KarenBasset I never had any issues, had the guitar for around 7 years now I think. And very.
Try graphite powder instead of the greasy stuff.
@@daveleblanc3558 I think I did on other guitars, both gave same results! It’s not a huge amount of Vaseline , it’s literally extremely minimal so there isn’t really any excessive grease , just the bit that lubricates the strings with the nut!
I hate to have to disagree with you publicly, but you are absolutely wrong about this guitar.
First off, if we are using the scientific method, there is a big question mark going into the testing of the guitar- the variable of it being USED. We don’t know how long it’s been set up incorrectly and how that could have compromised the components, so to shit on the guitar because of a bad set up and effects of the bad set up is just wrong. I mean, if you want to grade THIS PARTICULAR GUITAR, that’s fine. But again, you are blanketing your opinion on the whole model because of an incorrectly set up USED guitar. And another thing, I’m shocked as shit that you didn’t realize that the tremolo system was set up incorrectly, being that you have been doing this for 30 years. I know things tend to elude us at times, but you were HIGHLY FOCUSED on the tremolo system, and KNEW that was the issue! You should retract your thoughts on the whole model, or get your hands on a few other USED models of this type before you make such a blanket statement like you’ve done. That’s the scientific method.
Thats what i thougth when watching the video, thats a 2-point tremolo winch is supposed to be floating like a floyd rose, if you set it up like a standard fender tremolo won't work, but i dunno if thats the problem or the tremolo is sh1t directly
You saying that because it was set up bad for many years it gained a vice and cannot go now to the proper place ??? AHAHAHAHA!!!! This is a tool not a person with vices !!!If it was setup badly it can have to be fixed or maybe is a design issue !???
Hey Glenn, not sure if anyone has ever suggested this but...those allen screws that rip into hands on the saddles can be changed out for shorter length ones so that when adjusted they sit below the saddle. If you are handy with the file, the existing ones can be filed on the male end to reduced the height.
Even quicker is a Dremel with a fine cutoff wheel.
@@peachmelba1000 It's quickest just to buy shorter grub screws. Not many guitarists own a file or a Dremel let alone the dexterity to actually use either.
@@Old.Monkey.Bones. I agree, but I've had to resort to the Dremel recently. I actually build guitars, and surprisingly getting #4 grub screws from a local industrial supply was going to be a pain in the ass, since for some reason they don't stock them their store. I needed them the same day.
I'm kinda surprised. I was really impressed with the Sterling version of the Omar Rodriguez-Lopez signature model (the... Mariposa?). Only Sterling I've played but I was under the impression they were generally pretty solid guitars for the price.
Theft king weird seeing you here but this world is full of surprises
In my experience, ALL non-locking floating tremolos NEED a Hipshot Tremsetter installed & dialed in. Some Floyds could benefit too, depending on the pickiness of the player.
@@acidlab9586 typical strat trem is not what I'm talking about. I said floating tremolos
Hey Glenn. I think you should check the posts of the Tremolo. Most likely one of them is lose, or maybe the edge of the trem did cut into it, so that the edge of the trem does not sit on a smal point any more. Sometimes the knifeedges destroye the post , especially on cheap guitars. If there is a flat area, the trem will not settle back in the right position, because there is a to high friction. Had that issue on some less expensive guitars before. I often replaced the posts with schaller or ibanez parts. After that the problems were gone. Especially if someone turned the post to set the hight of the strings unter full tension, cheap post will have cut a grove into it. Then the post is literally destroyed and needs to be replaced.
Maybe that is the problem here as well. You did buy the guitar used, right?
I find the knife edges are damaged more often then the post
I made a comment along the same lines in the previous video, and same on this one, I hope we'll gain traction ;)
@@ironblast5 This can happen as well for sure. I personally had the posts damaged most of the times, but you are absolutely right, both should be checked!
You can buy shorter grub screws if you dont like them rubbing on your delicate hands ;)
Ive done this time and again with fender strats after lowering the saddles.
Props to you for taking a second crack at this guitar. Hopefully sometime soon you can get either an EBMM JP Majesty or even the SBMM Majesty entry level on the show for comparison’s sake.
No no no 3:47 ..the saddles are not supposed to be flat to the body.... the bridge plate is what is supposed to be parallel to the body , what you want to do here is lower the two pivot points(same level on both sides very Important or you will have the same problem) then raise the saddles to the point where the saddles screws don't poke out of the saddle and adjust the two pivot points accordingly to the action wanted ..staying straight , that way the screws don't cut the shit out of your hands( unless the screws are abnormally long then they would have to be cut down ) , I set all my two point bridges this way and they always stay in tune , also this guitar has a cavity for you to put the plate lower than lets say a strat would so you have all kinds of adjustment here , and stretch the shit out of the strings over and over until they stretch no more.
You have to juggle with spring tension and tuning until the float of the bridge plate is parallel to the body then do the Intonation. And I'm a Bass Player 🤣 and luthier
Don't let your sound guy setup your guitar!!!! LOL Joking man Peace!
Hey Glenn, I noticed you adjusted the action with the bridge posts while the strings were under tension. I made the same mistake on my licensed Floyd and dulled the knife edges of the bridge. Since then I have the same kind of tuning instability where I have to push the bridge in the other direction to get it back in tune. The previous owner of your guitar might have done the same. Unfortunately, I don't think there's an easy fix though.
The metal quality level of the bridge on this import model (like with a licensed Floyd) was my first instinct with this issue. Won't happen with every example, but inconsistency is definitely a problem. That's the reason I put a German (original) Floyd on my Wolfgang special (and even upgraded many of the parts via F-U Tone parts to avoid wear/tear and stripped screws).
If this thing was sold used, then I feel a huge amount of shame. Whoever sold it just didn't try everything they could to repair it. They just gave up on it and decided to try to make it someone else's problem. I am grateful that it ended up in your hands, someone who has the ability to repair and set up instruments. I am always happy about you calling out the bullshit, as well. Could you do a video on an unused model to see if the quality is any better? It could maybe actually be the manufacturers fault, as well. It could have been cast aside because of the quality of the instrument out of the case.
1:48 those are set screws that you should be able to buy at any decent hardware store and yes, they come way too long on most guitars/basses and they destroy your palm.
They're almost always metric M3 size, and if you get 6mm lengths, they will NEVER protrude above your saddles.
Adding more springs to the trem sometimes works... Also a fret rubber medium grit can smooth the heads of the hex adjustment screws for comfort.
See now you really shouldn't have to do that on a guitar of that price. Maybe some offbrand guitar from 1992.
@@herculesbrofister265 maybe not but if it works...
You need to wiggle the wiggle stick 2682 time in one direction then 1399 in the other direction.... That will sort it! Seriously though, didn´t notice you doing any divebombs of such... May be worth a try?
What confuses me is why punching the bridge fixes it. I wonder if the previous owner adjusted the height on the two bolts without loosening the strings. If there's too much tension when adjusting the overall bridge height, the fulcrum bolts can get deformed. I wonder if the bridge is getting caught on some wear on the fulcrum. I've heard that chapstick can actually help alleviate that, though I've never tried it.
The cause of the bridge popping out is the two pivot points are not level so when the knife edge comes back it has to tilt the whole bridge into position getting caught up on burs from the knife edge, on your next setup use the other side of the pivot post where it is not worn out. 👍
This is 100 % the issue. This has happened to every guitar I’ve had with a non original Floyd due to the softer metal being used.
@@Nelsonn087 Perhaps the edges themselves are worn out.
Is this where Petrucci got inspiration for their song "Raise The Knife"? Maybe..
Hey Glenn, I think I can help you here a bit.
Guys that play non-locking floating trem guitars can attest to this,
Assuming the set-up is correct(the nut slots are correctly cut and polished, the trem is properly floating, the knife edges are sharp and undamaged, etc)
floating trems like this are likely to come in and out of tune a tad here and there, and then are brought back into tune by tapping, wiggling, dipping the bar, etc.
What's happening with your guitar there is relatively normal, though I would say exaggerated a bit by improper set up and possibly some knife edge damage.
I had one of the 7 string models of this guitar years ago and was able to keep it perfectly in tune live and in the studio.
Shoot me a message or email and I will be happy to help you my dude.
When you showed the side on shot of the bridge and said it was "level" I immediately knew that was not the case. The rear of the bridge was leaning into the body which is a big no-no. The bridge must be parallel or leaning forward a little otherwise the string tension goes to complete shit and it doesn't go back to the correct pitch when doing bends or vibrato etc. But seeing that even after setting up the bridge it still doesn't stay it tune, it leads me to believe that it's just not a very good quality bridge. I reckon if you upgraded it with something like a gotoh bridge it would irradicate this issue. There is no such thing as a shit guitar. Just shit parts and shit setups.
Yep when I saw the shot, I immediately said to myself, that's not level. It's true people have a tendency of measuring levelness with the baseplate where in reality you have to look how the bridge is sitting at the knife edge, in this case the knife edge was not sitting level, but pointing upwards, if it was pointing downwards it would have been less of a problem, but resting upwards on the fulcrum point is a big no no.
Probably already chewed up the knife edge on the tremolo and probably "regrooved" the posts as they're made of cheap materials, meaning it will probably never stay perfectly in tune now due to a previous bad setup.
That being said second time around it was slightly more stable for the simple fact that the knife edges were pretty much level. Leveling the saddles is useless though... and lets just ignore any radius in the process...
This happened to my Ibanez, I ended up having to replace the pivot posts, this quite often happens with 2 point tremolos, the knife adges of the bridge are harder than the bolts and it can wear out through use or adjusting the action with string tension, this cuts a groove into the pivot point and then when you use the trem or bend it clunks between the different grooves and drops sharp or flat depending on where the grooves are
So the TLDR is "used guitar is used (up). I'm wondering if the bridge post/knife edges are worn out. Hell, the OG Floyd's and Kahler's had replaceable knife edges for just that reason. Posts get grooves worn in, knife edges round over, and POOF the tuning stability is lost.
You can get that 6th e string in a better position by bumping the neck over.
I don't care if you call if tremolo or vibrato, but Moses's sandals! It's TREMolo, not treMOlo. Goddam. Some people's kids.
Don't think any "genuine" Floyd had replaceable knife edges.
The OG Ibanez Edge did and Schaller used pressed in hardened steel knife edges in their own licensed Floyd design.
Everytime I tune a string, I pull on it hard to make sure the tension isn't built up in any other point outside the key and the bridge. If there's a crack somewhere, that's a point of friction. I don't stop this process until it doesn't detune from the string pulling.
A friend of mine do that with his guitar every time he is gonna tune it
Amazing how you pride yourself on facts, but when someone points out something about what you said. Come on man!! Don’t justify your statement by point out that a big company makes the same mistake. I still love the show and will never unsubscribe 😃
I thought you bought it brand new, but if it's used then maybe the bridge "knife" edges were damaged by previous owner? I would also try other set of tremolo springs.
I'm confused here...the bridge saddles are supposed to follow the radius / curve of the fretboard, not 'sit flat with the body'...You should get the strings off, take the trem out and check the knife edges. Those probably show wear and that is probably your issue.
Listening with a critical ear, it sounded to me like when you started the one and 1/2 step bend at the 12th fret that the string caught on the saddle blade and shifted. Could be an improperly cut blade or lack of quality control.
Try a thing called a "tremolo stabilizer" - it may resolve the tuning stability issues you're having with this guitar. There are a number of companies that have made these in the past and included them in production guitars. There are still some being produced and sold as aftermarket addons currently. Good Luck!
+1 to this comment! One of my favorite accessories to put on guitars with trems is a Hipshot Trem-Setter…makes all the difference in the world with tuning stability!
It's Vibrato, but Tremolo is in common usage , language changes, so it's fine so long as we know what we're referring to. It becomes a problem when amps with Tremolo (correctly named) aren't doing the same thing though.
@@acidlab9586 agreed
Only other option would be to screw the spring claw all the way in and basically hardtail the trem so it will only dive and not dip while doing bends... Aka the Van Halen trick..
ok, you reset the bridge but now focus on the nut. Are the strings getting hung up at that end? The knock you give it might be able to reset the stuck string in the nut slot.
You can replace those saddle screws with shorter ones from a hardware store. You shouldn't have to, but you can.
I wasn’t impressed with the tuning stability of the EBMMJP models. So I bought an Ibanez RG 920 with a edge trem and switched out to JP dimarrzio illuminator pick ups. Excellent tuning stability
So Glenn, is the video (or videos) on how to set up a guitar still on the way? Really looking forward to it.
in the image at 1:41 that bridge is *not* level, its leaning back not by much but enough to throw things out of whack. but it seems like the nut is binding rather than issue at the bridge.
Glenn I find it amazing that as busy of a person you are between creating youtube content, mixing and mastering, and STILL have time to sit down and practice guitar. Just letting you know your improvement shows, cheers!
Hey Glenn o/
As for the Firefly guitars: Maybe you can check in with "Darrell Braun Guitar". he's got them on the channel and he's Canadian too. So if someone would know something about importing Fireflys into Canada, maybe he'd be the guy to talk to.
Cheers and Have a nice day Jari o/
I’ve been pretty happy with PRS SE stuff if you’re looking for something in the affordable range in a studio. Mine stays in tune and I love how it plays
I second this - although my PRS is a CE.
SE's are absolutely fantastic, but they're on the upper end of the budget range. In fact, I wouldn't even call them budget lol. They're the budget end of the PRS spectrum but that's about it haha.
The problem is with the material they use in the bridges on the Sterling models. I have a Sterling AX40, their budget version of the Axis. It has a Floyd, but it's not an original, it's a licensed version that they make themselves with the Sterling logo in the casting just like on your non-Floyd tremolo there. They used a much cheaper, softer metal in the castings on these than on name-brand bridges. And so the knife-edge in the grooves that rests against the fulcrum points on the studs wears very quickly into a rounded edge. So every time the bridge moves up and down on those edges, it never exactly returns to the same position because to do that, you need to maintain that knife edge with an ultra hard metal, and when it rounds off, it returns close but not to the exact same spot every time. The more you use it, the worse it gets as time goes on. The only way to actually fix it is to upgrade the bridge to a better quality name-brand version.
Vibrato = a rapid, slight variation in pitch in singing or playing some musical instruments.
Tremolo = a fast succession of notes produced through rapid playing or rapid volume change.
What description better fits the whammy bar?
Don't hate me Glenn
On both my Strat and my PRS CE, I inserted a small wood block between the body and tremolo block inside the cavity. I can no longer pull up on the bar, but both guitars stay perfectly in tune. And if I break a string, the other five don't go sharp and I can limp through the rest of the song. :)
Have you inspected the pivot points on the trem and posts themselves? It might be a case of it being worn and improperly set-up and taken care of.
When you bend a note it would pull the bridge with it, and if there are any issues on the points where the bridge sits against the posts, it might stick ever so slightly, putting out of tune.
Also if the posts are not level with each other, that might also create enough binding to hold it out of tune until you hit it.
My Tremonti SE is setup to where i have to play it sitting up, (as opposed to leaning back) because the weight of the bridge will change the tension on the strings vs springs, putting out it out of tune until I sit back up,
Trems are fucking annoying.
That bridge style was on my 2019 Sterling Majesty X too and hand shredder is a great way to describe it. What I did was file the corner into a rounded shape. That solved my issue. And as I said in the last video I had none of these issues you’re seeing in this model. Maybe that’s why they discontinued it? I mean it’s unacceptable these days to have a guitar that can’t hold tune…right Gibson? 😂
Im still kinda shocked by this, my jp100d has been perfect since day 1, never replaced anything
hmm, i wonder why ernie ball discontinued those?
GLEEEEEEEEEEEEN if you want to solve the issue with the screws hurting your hand just shim the neck slightly like .5 degrees and you'll be able to raise the saddles so the screws don't stick out, or also, just lock the bridge to avoid tuning issues, but that's the issue sometimes with budget guitars there is very low consistance in between examples, I had a sterling majesty before and it was very stable. Great content man love the channel
or.. just screw the trem posts down since they are here to achieve just that without needing to take the whole guitar apart? :) takes 5 seconds, 10 if you're all thumbs :p
@@ledoynier3694 Except doing it under tension will dull the knife edges and further damage tuning stability...
Take a round file to the underside of the whammy rig and flute the contacts to the pivot bolts on the rig. Then heat it up and harden it. Stick it back together and hey presto no whammy drag.... Also fit 5 springs. And earth them....
Might also be necessary to regrove hinge bolts for whammy. Just stick in a drill and needle file them smooth in the indent. Tony round file or a triangular file will work there also. Just don't want any ridges in the metal feel free to sand after filing with 320 grit minimum emery cloth....
It isn’t a tremolo because it doesn’t affect volume. Isn’t vibrato because most people don’t set them up properly, just hard tail them and only use them as a pitch dropper. The important point is it’s a floating bridge and that always screws up tuning, bends, adds spring harmonics, and makes tuning a nightmare. Not good things for heavy metal, other than that super drop whammy and other technique but is that worth the compromise?
I had a Sterling MAJ100 Majesty in the Arctic Dream finish come through my shop and it was an absolutely killer guitar for the price. It played remarkably well and didn't have any issues at all with tuning stability.
As it was a used example I have the feeling someone has screwed up either the knife edges or the posts by adjusting the action with the strings at full tension. This leaves grooves in the posts and blunts the knife edge on the baseplate of the trem.
A lot of guys with those Sterling JPs change the bridge out. I believe they use a Gotoh 510 series bridge.
Personally I have a Sterling JP160 which has a Floyd Pro style bridge and I have no tuning problems.
Pull the trem and lube the contact points between the bridge and the pivot posts with a tiny bit of Chap Stick. It's waxy, so it stays in place. Dry teflon lube works too but I have had more success over time with Chap Stick.
As for the hand grater, shorter screws can be had at any place that sells a decent selection of metric fasteners.
I personally just go for hardtails now after years of fighting with a Floyd Rose. It stayed in tune and worked fine, but I hardly used it enough to justify the amount of work to do anything with it. Having a fixed bridge is much easier.
I have all my Floyds set to dive only. Best of both worlds. That said I have a fair share of fixed bridges and deck all my standard non floating trems.
There are other issues that may be causing the tuning problems when bending- Strats are notorious for this. The strings can bind a bit at the nut or may be binding at the wrapping around the posts, (which is why Floyd and other high-end systems have locking nuts). You can try some kind of lube like graphite or something in the nut slots, and also put locking tuners on the guitar, and make sure the strings are wrapped properly. Can also be that your strings are too new and have not been stretched enough yet. Most Strat players will have their own little tricks for helping with this same tuning issue when using the whammy bar or doing large bends (listen to any live Hendrix recordings, and hear how many times he tuned between or even during songs).
There is a luthier in Italy named Frudua who has some really excellent videos on how to set up Strats without locking nuts so they will come back into tune- I used his methods on my Strat and it really helps, however you sometimes have to finish your bends or whammy use with a slight pull up on the bar- which "resets" the tuning the same as when you are hitting the bridge, if that makes sense. It's sort of the nature of the beast when dealing with non-locking whammies, which were really designed to do small "surf music" type vibrato stuff in the 50's, not huge dive bombs like we do today. Link to Frudua video (he has many great ones) czcams.com/video/UgfMyJ76p4o/video.html
Also, you can buy shorter screws for the saddles which will not shred the side of your hand. You're right about that for sure- stupid design but many bridges have that issue.
He put a new graphtech nut on it, not necessarily conclusive but tuning issues were the same with both nuts IIRC, there are no string trees and the tuners are already of the locking variety. Based on that I'm guessing it's a little more likely that it's the bridge causing the issue - even with a locking nut, low quality or worn bridges can cause tuning problems. It's presumably a cheap bridge and the guitar is secondhand, I'm betting the knife edges are somewhat buggered.
Bending the string behind the nut, releasing, then checking If the string is sharp ought to show if there's a significant issue with the string binding in the nut.
You probably already know that, but for others it may help.
Take the saddle screws out and use a Dremel tool or even a file and grind off enough from the tip to get the saddle screws to get them to sit flush with the top of the saddles. It will take under an hour even with a file. Make sure to make slight points to the bottom of the screws if that was what you had initially. No more hand shredder. I have done this before and still have a strat that needs it now. I've got a lack of gumption.
you dont need to do that with this particular system...IF it is setup correctly. The base plate of the bridge needs to be flush with the guitar body. Then you will "need" to raise the saddles to a point where they dont sick out at all. Thats how all JP models from Sterling are setup from the factory. The previous owner of the guitar in the video was a idiot apparently.
No. The reason they stick up is a bad neck angel. Shim the neck and the saddles will be sunk more in the saddle. Reality
@@morbidmanmusic Not in this case. Read my comment. I own this guitar and i know how to set it up properly.
The Tremolo on the JP models is unique and its awesome...if its setup correctly.
The one on the video apparently got raped by the previous owner, and Glenn did not set it up correctly either.
Hey Glenn, if you want to remove the saddle screw hand shredding problem, you could lower the entire bridge down into the recessed cavity a bit , then raise the saddles to where their height screws are flush with the saddles... you might lose some upward pull on the whammy bar, but you won't end up bleeding, lol good luck man!
It's keeping pitch as well as any other term that isn't blocked or has a Tremol-no system. It is one of the banes of having a trem. You'll also note that the term pulls when you bend on any string and you'll always have to put your palm on the bridge to counter the bridge pull. You can experience this by playing the low E than bending on the high e string. Also, played tons of trems that were set up properly and always had to hit the trem at least a few times to move the strings back in place, even with locking tuners. This is caused by binding at the nut which you have to keep lubed with graphite and the ball ends, which can get caught in the tree block. Also, if the knife-edge on the trem is worn there isn't much you can do other than get a new bridge, even with the Floyd Roses (which are the best trem bridges) they will still go out of tune since they will never return to a home position.
Best thing for that guitar, instead of fighting the trem is just to block it. The other option is to install a tremol-no system on it, but then that is a $120+ investment and more fucking around with the guitar when you could spend the extra $120 and get an awesome non-term guitar. As for blocks, any wood block that fits between the trem block and body will do, but they sell them precut on amazon and with a few measurements you can find the right fit. Hope this helps.
If you have a rotary tool like a dremel, extend a little more of the saddle hex adjustment screws and cut away the offending excess (if the hex depth cavity allows).
Cut from the bottom though. Otherwise you won’t be able to adjust the height anymore…
Or just buy shorter screws.
I think someone adjusted the action using the two trem posts that go into the body with string tension on. That will screw up your tuning stability as it will dull the knife edges on the baseplate and even dig grooves in the posts. I think the entire trem system is f*cked because of that.
I've been saying that in the comments of the previous video, glad I'm not the only one who heard about that, but I'm curious as to whether it's a myth or not...
@@CyberChrist
Absolutely not. I have done it to FR trems in the past. Lesson learned the hard way. Always loosen tension when adjusting the height of the baseplate.
@@Foefmeis It always made sense to me so I never tried... then again, if Glenn doesn't know about it, I wonder how many guitar sellers don't either -_-
I love a good bare knuckle fight. Count me in. It’s called, “an apparatus for producing tremolo effects”, if you want to to get down to the original name of it
The knife edge could be damaged or flattened and interrupting the return to zero point even if it's set past the fulcrum zero point , possibly some lubricant or better claw springs or add a spring
Floating trems require a locking system. A guitar like that is meant to have the springs tightened the other way, so the trem can only go down. Sometimes locking tuners suffice for a locking nut but obv not in this case
I would love to know how the term springs are screwed into the body on your model. I have major issues with my seven string MAJ170ADR and it's all down to the term springs being drilled down at an angle vs straight, the angle is so extreme that you can feel and hear the springs rattle on the backplate as you play. I keep the plate removed at all times to at least remedy some of the issues. This is not a quick/easy fix since it would involve filling and re-drilling so sadly, I've never got around to handling it myself. There are other major QC issues throughout my instrument too, particularly around the finish and "shield" centre piece. Thankfully mine did not have the nut cut problems.
I would say that after the adjustments made to your bridge, the height looks incredibly high. I'm slightly surprised that you found the action comfortable with it sitting so proud, but then that's personal preference of course. If you drop the action, re-intonate & complete a truss rod adjustment. How stable does it become? any impact at all?
Since it was purchased used, the plating on the posts (that the trem rests against) may be marred. Seen this on a lot of posts that are plated (often on guitars that have seen either a lot of use with the trem or gone through a few too many adjustments to the bridge), that can be a cause of not allowing the bridge to come back to its zero point. Lastly, always a chance that nut may not be setup correctly for that set of strings, where the string is getting pinched in the slot (and string not gliding over the slot correctly).
Putting a small shim in the neck will allow the bridge saddles to be raised enough to stop the palm shredder. Did it to my strat and now more comfortable to play
That bridge did not look level to me. haha
Your 2 bridge studs don't look as if they are sitting truly upright and square to the body, as if the wood around the studs has compressed, or the studs have bent under pressure. That will mess with bridge stability. Remember the Gibsons with the Steinberger bridge had that problem.
The saddles aren't supposed to be flat, they are supposed to be set so the curvature of the strings matches the neck radius.
Have a look at Jackson's JS32 series. I think they're very good for the price, I now own several (warriors and Rhoads), most with the Jackson branded FR (JS32) and one hardtail (JS32T).
The JS32 were so good for the price, IMO, that I also have the next level up, a CDX Rhoads Concorde and WRX Warrior.
For the money, the JS32 series are worth serious consideration.
Wait, the saddles are supposed to be set with the radius of the neck right? The saddles shouldn’t be flat, they should be set to the radius. Which if you look down from the headstock you can see the radius, the saddles should be set to it, unless on trem bridges it’s different.
Was the high E string coming off the fret board resolved? That was the biggest issue with the axe. 😂
Vibrato is when pitch is fluctuated. Tremolo is when volume is fluctuated. Leo Fender screwed all of that up from day one. So, it is honestly HIS fault for using terms that he interchanged at will. He made amps with the name TREMOLO on them, which is correct...the volume would controllably go in and out. Then he would make another amp with the word VIBRO VERB in the title, insinuating that there is a vibrato on the amp......nope, just the same TREMOLO effect. So, because of Leo, the world still interchanges both terms that couldn't be more different.
This might sound like an obvious suggestion, have you tried getting shorter grub screws for the saddles? Them sticking out was always bugging me, and found you can get them for fairly cheep on Amazon!
I wonder if the issue is that there is a chip or crack or saw dust in the cavity that the trem sits in and its slightly catching somehow (on the sides). Or it could be that on the low E side post where his issue is, maybe the trem has a burr on it that is catching, a simple manufacturing mistake that wasn't caught. In order to check he would have to take the strings off and take off the springs in the back and remove the trem and get a good look at it. If it is the dust or the cavity isn't big enough, a little sand paper might help give it more space for the trem to rock. If it is a burr then a good file could fix the issue.. Of course, it could be that the post its self is at a slight angle compared to the High E side and its not able to rock back and forth in the groove well because of it..
I'm going with vibrato bar...the term tremolo is more associated with volume.
"Entry-level" guitar that requires that much fuss? It's hard to imagine the beginner being able to do that, much less have the patience to do it. Chances are, the guitar will just gain dust, or be resold.
it's possible that you needed to pull off the bridge and see if the posts or the bridge itself had a defect. the metal on lower end guitars can be quite soft and wear/create flat spots on the trem.
Instead of allowing the bridge to float slightly you should adjust it so that when you pull the trem it stops a semi tone higher.
My JP70’s trem block is so thin that the string guide holes are almost punched through and cracked in 3 separate spots. I also have tuning stability issues even with a professional set up. I’m pretty disappointed in the QC of these guitars.
You can buy short grub screws to fix the palm shred issue.
I think it's the same thing problem with the Floyds. The knife edges. And with the sterling models, I believe the bridges are softer metal than on his expensive models. I have a ltd Hammet that won't return to 0 point after a dive. I have to do the same thing. Hit it or pull up on the bar quick and its back in tune.
How do you know, before you did all that bridge adjusting, that the Low E string isn't simply binding at the nut? and when you do the little punch move, you're not just jolting the string so the tension on the headstock side of the nut pulls the string back into tune? If the bridge was not returning to its resting (or zero) point when you bend one string, the other strings would also be out of tune to varying degrees, not just one string.
It would be interesting to see what DWOFS would say about this. It would be a killer collaboration to have him analyze it while doing one of his legendary setups on it!
I think this is an issue with trems in general. There’s a guitar CZcamsr named Darrel Braun (also Canadian) who has a video about an issue that occurs on ALL trem systems. In his video, he explains that after a large bend on the G string, it always rests out of tune until you hit the bar again. He tested it on several different types of trem systems and all the results were the same. Now, he singled out the G (probably because that’s the one he most commonly bends), but I’ve tested it myself and found that it also happens on the B and high E, and I had to bend really far to knock the high E out of tune. Thought I’d test it on my low E right now and I’m experiencing the same thing. I think when your trem is floating, you’ve got to expect tuning issues when you do those really big bends.
If you get good at using the trem, it becomes less of an issue.
People think the good squeels come from being hard on them but it's not, it's a perfect timing on pitch and trem, meaning you can sustain or go sharp without pulling the trem in the opposite direction but simply bending down, and the moment you release it back, get the pitch harmonic releasing it back into place from a tremolo bend and then go slowly back down again. Some guitars are special made to handle abuse, specifications but even then it's better to know how to use the trem, I used to be very good at it, but recent years i haven't used it much, haven't needed it and the novalty wears off.
Of course all guitars will go out of tune with trem but even more so if you start using like Kirk Hammett do.
bad CNC routing for the pegs that hold your bridge can also be the culprit,the high E sliding off the board is a good indicator.
i created the same problem by changing my trem system on my jackson , the pegs didn't fit so i just hammered them in there.
Ok Jackson has the same problem with their lower end JS and X series. Out of the box the strings will not return to zero. You’ll always have to tap or nudge it back to zero tune.
THE PROBLEM is that the licensed Floyd Rose (action) is slightly too low causing the FR to hang up.
THE FIX is to raise the FR action about 1/2 to 1 full turn. Works every time.
You will see all sort of BS and wrong fixes to this issue regarding Jackson JS Dinky & X series on CZcams. Some folks think it’s because Jackson doesn’t use a String Retainer bar on the headstock like Ibanez, some think the strings are hanging up in the cheap nut. Neither is true. I’ve bought three of these guitars in the past couple of months and all three had the same problem and my Fix fixed them all.
Actually, the one comment brings up a very interesting idea. How does the JP line stack up against the AX3, which is significantly less expensive?
Non-locking tremolos are notorious for tuning issues (see Fender Strat). Often times the nut not being cut correctly, especially on imports is an issue. Even on fixed bridge guitars. I'm not sure if the Petrucci has locking tuners, but they help as well as the wraps around the post don't return to the same spot. But with locking tuners there are no or only 1 wrap around the post. Love the channel!