Don't Buy a Horia Clone Until You Watch This.
Vložit
- čas přidán 2. 11. 2023
- Learn the crucial differences between the Horia Jewel Press and the Seitz Jewel Press. Whether you're a new watchmaker or even a more experienced one, you’ll learn why the Seitz is the better tool. This essential watch repair tool has more uses than most people are aware of. Until today. Enjoy
**Note: The Seitz Jewel press in the video is model 3605. The older models do not have the threads for the knurled knob on the top nor does the top of the plunger unscrew. **
****************************************************************************
✨✨Watchmaking Courses and Training ✨✨
➡➡ watchrepairtutorials.com/watc... ⬅⬅
✨✨ Get Your Copy of my eBook, The Secrets for Adjusting Watch Rates ✨✨
➡➡PDF DOWNLOAD watchrepairtutorials.com/ebook/ ⬅⬅
➡➡Available on Kindle & Soft Cover @ geni.us/4x8C (Amazon)
**************************************************************************************************
🚀 Don't Miss Out: Sign up for the "It's About Time" Monthly Newsletter
watchrepairtutorials.com/news...
Become a Watch Repair Tutorial Patreon to access advanced workshops, ad free video and bonus trainings: / watchrepairtutorials**...
DISCLOSURE: I often review or link to products & services I regularly use and think you might find helpful. Wherever possible I use referral links, which means if you click one of the links in this video or description and make a purchase we may receive a small commission or other compensation.
I am a big fan of Amazon, and many of my links to products/gear are links to those products on Amazon. I am a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for me to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and related sites.
USED IN THIS VIDEO
►Horia Style Jewel press s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_m03...
MY MICROSCOPE SET-UP
► Amscope SM-3T watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... Amazon)
► Barlow Lens watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... (Amazon)
► LCD Ring Lite watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... (Amazon)
► Hayear Microscope Camera watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... (Amazon)
► Camera Adapter watchrepairtutorials.com/get/... (Amazon)
** FULL LIST OF TOOLS & SUPPLIES I USE **
watchrepairtutorials.com/tool... - Jak na to + styl
Hello from Massachusetts! My father in law was a master clock maker, he graduated from Chicago watch school in 1976. His dad was also a master watch maker.
I learned a lot from my father in law he was a wealth of knowledge. I received all of his and his dads watch stuff after he passed away . I started with mantle clocks and pocket watches,it’s just a hobby for me. I really appreciate you taking the time to make videos and sharing with us. God Bless my friend
Old school guys like your father in law were something else. You could talk with them for hours and not even scratch the surface of what they knew.
Thanks for stopping by.
My tutor sat me down and talked to me individually about my hobby and gave me special insights into the system and methods to use. Oh, there his is. Alex Hamilton extraordinaire. And, I see one of my mentors, Mike, watches you. What more do I need to say.
It’s always great to see you, Mr. Jackson. In watch repair. there are a few big investments that need to be made, in tools order to get to the next level. Hopefully, this video will help some their choice.
I am a beginner working on older pocket watches. I haveservicedabout 15 old pocket watches so far i cluding total dissasembly, cleaning and oiling.
I recently bought a huge stock ofstuff at an auction from a pro watchmaker who sadly passed.
Including a Star staking set and a perfect seitz jewellers tool with a ton of other accessories I have zero idea what they are.
And a boat load of Vintage pocket watch parts for most American pocketwatches. And bags and bags of servicable watches. With alot of Hamilton 992 parts.
I could really use vids on what the heck this seitz tool can do.
I love this hobby, but it is expensive lol.
Glad I have an awesome wife 😂
Awesome story man. I love these little glimpses of stuff passing on from one custodian to another.
I hope you get what you need to learn about and use them before you eventually pass them on to the next generation
Having an understanding wife is definitely a plus. 👍 one day when you’re ready, you might consider enrolling in one of my courses to further your knowledge. I will also be doing a lesson on every stump and stake that comes in a staking set, and how to use them.
@@watchrepairtutorials yes I will
Thanks Alex, I hope you don’t ever get bored of us letting you know what great videos you make! This video feels like Seitz 1, and video Seitz 2 needs to come out soon😀 with all its bells and whistles! Ta.
I appreciate that! I actually get a lot of inspiration from all the feedback, so no worries my friend. I got a lot more to give.
Wow another excellent video!! Your presentation is crystal clear and to the point. I am enjoying every lesson of your course. looking forward to lesson 9! Thanks for all your hard work.
Me too. It’s going to be an eye opener
Great video as always, Alex! Thanks! I just bought a very nice vintage Seitz kit and this helps a lot!
Always good to hear from you my friend. Glad I could help in some small way.
Thank you. I have been wondering what that part in my Seitz set was. Now I know it's the lever replacing thingy you mention at 2.11 😊
Glad I could help!
Thanks again Alex, all good stuff 👍
My pleasure Tom.
Your videos are top notch, comprehensive on every topic you cover. I have been using a vintage Seitz for 12 years now, and I like the spring loaded pushers which seem to be less likely to damage the material.
Yea sir. It the one I learned in from the beginning and is un replaceable. They were used in the watch factories and some of the accessories were developed primarily for the factory. Thanks for being here
Alex, an excellent video again!
Thanks for that. Only one addition to that. Actually I have two of Seitz press tool set. Only one of them can be turned to use as a micrometer press one. The other one simply don't have that possibility. The older one in nice wooden box however equipped with pivot size measurement gauge and pivot bent repair stuff.
So I am happy to both of them 😊
Sometimes those knobs for the micrometer show up on eBay if you keep a look out.
Thanks for the video Alex, it is very helpful. I have a used Seitz set on the way that is missing several pushers. It is good to know you can still get replacements.
Glad I could help
Thank you for another great video.
Thank you Doctor. 😉
I've just started my journey, 9 followed your 7 tools video and got some of the other basics. I've invested a few hundred dollars in tools and bought some basic automatic and mechanical movements to practice on. These videos are great and I determined I will only buy other tools as I need them. But your videos have been great, i recommend anyone being into this to watch all his videos first and start small get a feel for it and iterate. The series of lessons are amazing and all the new videos are just a great bonus 😉
Thank you Eric. Once you have all the basic tools, the two really big ones are staking set and a jewel press. Until you have those your fairly limited as far as what you can repair but with that said there’s a lot of fun that could be had working on movements it already run.
Another CZcamsr is learning the trade from another CZcams watchmaker and he made a video bragging on the Chinese clone. This is why I chose your course. you put out information that no one else does
Thank you. I hope you are enjoying it. Some of my favorite subjects are coming up and I can’t wait to share. The fulfillment I get from this is amazing. 😀
I love my Seitz tool. I use it more and more instead of the stakingset. Wish sometimes feels ”crude” compared to the Seitz tool. Its a swiss armyknife to a watchmaker.
It definitely is one of my favorite and most useful tools in the arsenal. 🤙
Nice one Rocket!
Thank you Alex for the insight into the horia clone issues. I have the basic seitz kit. No add on seitz sets yet.
Perfect. The accessories come up all the time on eBay.
@@watchrepairtutorials yes I have been trying to however one of the big sellers just banned me for leaving a honest neutral feedback Oh well.
Many thanks for another terrific video.
Did you learn anything?
Yup, definitely. For example, as a beginner, although I’ve seen people replace damaged jewels, I really didn’t know much about the specifics regarding the tools. However, you actually focus on the tools and discuss certain issues, which is really a useful starting point. Many thanks, again.
Seittz tool, Jacot tool, staking set, winders, lathe, cleaning machine, etc these things are expensive for a hobbyist. I am at a cross roads deciding is there enough practicality, value and enjoyment to pass over the line and purchase these tools over time. For now I stick with known movements such as ETA and Seiko where parts are readily available and replace them when needed. I am also hesitant purchasing these tools until I learn in detail what each tool should come with and what they do. A lot of "sets" are missing items or different parts from different manufacturers or chipped or broken. Pity the modern day manufacturing companies are trying to re create the tools needed but are cutting corners. Just like Christmas cake there is a finite number of these old machines and tools so I suspect pricing to increase as availability and quality decrease so at least your investment will not diminish over time.
Well, I probably wouldn’t worry about a lathe anytime soon but once you’re set up to service the movement completely, then the next two big tools are the staking side and obviously the jewel press.
But again, it all depends on what you’re working on .
I constantly see people who buy vintage pocket watches to work on with the chance of fixing anything because they don’t have a staking set or jewel set
Dont forget they do re sell, usually you will get the money back you initially paid (if you bought a good used tool) & then you decide to "retire".
@@johnsenior8205 so true. Good tools were always go up in value.
Funny you make this video when I just started looking into replacing jewels in my watches. Ive been doing this for 12 years now and I'm tired of having watches with broken jewels that I can't fix. My mentor gave me a staking set and that was a huge game changer! I have two older Seitz clones and so far they've been very useful. Looking into getting the reamers for them soon. Just replaced a staff and a hole jewel on a Buren watch and boy was it satisfying! Look forward to your tutorials!
Wait a Seitz clone? Are talking about the Favorite brand?
Anyway, those are the two tools that allow for real repairs and get you to the next level. 👍
Just checked. I have two now! XD One says Swartzschild & Co. on it. The other I think is a Favorite Brand one. Both aren't a complete set, but they've already been useful. Thanks!
Thank you Alex. I have a Seitz tool and wondered if I needed to try to save up for the Horia tool. I am looking forward to your future videos on ways to use what I have. I need a few of the smaller pump pushers and reamers and am not sure where to source them. I also have a few empty glass vials in my jewel drawer and need to find a source for them to refill it.
Thanks again and all the best,
Norm in Arizona
I purchased replacement accessories for my seitz tool from Ofrei.
Hello Norm, if you already have the Seitz press I would hesitate on buying the Horia clone and just get what you are missing. Not only does cousins UK carry the pushers, but the major suppliers in the US also have them.
Hello. How are we? I'm glad to have time to say hello and thank you for sharing your knowledge with amateur trainees. Greetings from Santander (Spain).
I am doing fine thank you. It’s always nice to here from viewers in other countries. Are you English speaking or do you use the closed captions and translate?
@@watchrepairtutorials
We already had this conversation more, less than a year and a half ago. I use subtitles and common sense. That said, thanks for sharing.
Thank you Alex. I love to see videos on what we can do with a Seitz and staking set. With my staking set, I can ream holes. I don't have a Seitz set yet, just because of the huge investment. And as already mentioned in the comments, I realy don't know if an old set is complete, worn out or damaged. A Chinese Horia clone is maybe a starter🤔
Well, you definitely need to look at pictures and ask questions if you’re buying vintage. The good thing is is that if you need a new burnisher or pusher they are still readily available from Suppliers.
Hi, I’ve purchased a cheap (£120) Chinese Horia and it’s worked out ok at the moment. Might look to buy into Seitz one day.
@@boydsargeant7496 well, like I said, what are you just really depends on what you work on. I started off on primarily vintage pocketwatches so it was the first tools are used and I couldn’t imagine being without it
Again, a great video with great explanation. I am still at a very novice level and truly don’t have a need for a jeweling press yet, hell, I am still learning to oil cap jewels without smudging, but I have come across a few vintage Seitz jeweling presses but some are 3mm and some are 4mm. The 3mm examples are typically cheaper than the 4mm, why is that and which do you recommend?
I think the 3 mm ones are obsolete today. The one I have and the replacement parts that I’ve seen are 4 mm as well. The hour clone that I have is also 4 mm so I can use those stumps and pushers as well.
Good video, Sir. You look a lot younger with the nice hair cut. Wish you a very long and healthy life. Please continue to educate us with your videos.
I just have a pony tail.
The days of trying to look younger are over. Now I just need to lose about 60 pounds.🥹
God bless you with a long and happy life.
@@kswaminathan5439 same to you my friend
Cant wait for Lesson 9 🎉
Are you signed up?
@@watchrepairtutorials yes I am!!
Hi Alex, your videos have made me brave enough to start trying some home watch repair! I currently have an old Swiss mechanical watch that's from the 1940's, and it generally runs pretty well. However, It's likely been ages since it's been oiled. Using your videos, I've gotten close but I haven't been able to unscrew most of the smaller screws inside. I can't tell if I just have the wrong tools, or if its possible some have been cemented into the watch. I'd really hate to damage them- any advice?
Well, you need to start with the right with the screwdriver. I’m not sure what you’re using now but some of the small screws can get pretty small. FYI, most screwdriver sets are not ready to start removing screws. They typically need to be adjusted to the screws in the movement that you’re working on, incidentally, this is done pretty much every time you go from one size movement to another as the screws are not consistent from one moment to the other.
Hi Alex,these things are expensive for a hobbyist,Again, a great video with great explanation.
Everything is relative. Many hobbiest have full shops with all the equipment. It just depends on what segment of watch repair you are interested and what you want to be able to repair.
The older the watches you work on the more you need. 😃
Hi Alex, great video! Can I get your opinion on the AliExpress staking set? I believe it is a Bergeon clone.
Appreciate your content 🙂
I haven’t seen it so I don’t know ow how to advise you. Sorry. Thank you though.
Can I use a staking tool to replace a kock side balance jewel set I broke the spring and it's the kind you have to push out the setting to chang the incoblock spring. UT 6498 I have a new setting with the 2 jewels and spring, but I don't want to destroy it with a staking set. Iv yet to find a video addressing this. I've learned a lot from your videos, thank you. Billy
Tapping the setting is likely to bend the setting. You really need a jeweling tool and incabloc pushers
Alex you are psychic. I'm buying a horia tool on monday lol
Maybe a little bit my friend. Maybe a little bit.
Great video good to understand where budget tools will work and where they won't. Feedback - there's a lot of noise/microphone clipping on the audio which is somewhat distracting and makes it hard to make out what you're saying.
Thank you.
Alex - Please state what is the other tool set you have shown in the video called that allows you to work on the chaton jewel assemblies. Thanks
The reference number is 3015. Called a holder for jewel settings
Thanks Alex , great video indeed . Is there anyone who can provide some tips for rectifying a bent pivot?
My experience is that it is virtually impossible to straighten one to degree of straightness and that they usually just break. Replacement is the best option.
Thanks Alex . My problem couldn’t find the part ( omega cal420 part 1250) any hints ?
@@hichembouhlel2825 I just did a quick Google search and found 2 of them on eBay
Thank you .
Hi Alex, great video. I have one question, should i get a micro motor or a pendant motor for polishing the watch case, bracelet, main barrel hole etc? Which one is more suitable for watchmaking? Thanks
For polishing small things, a pendant motor is the way to go. You can do some case polishing with it as well, but serious case polishing is done with a variable speed bench machine with different types of felt wheels. You can do case polishing and bracelet polishing with a pendant motor, it’s just not as effective and you can’t remove gouges or deep scratches in a case or bracelet, which is the advantage of the bench machine.
@@watchrepairtutorials great, thanks.
yeah, I capitulated and picked up the chinese clone. it has really bad tolerances but really the main issue is that its poorly finished and can scratch up all your setting if youre not careful. I've been refinishing them as I go and its a real pain.
Funny I just did a video about re dressing the pushers. Check it out.
czcams.com/video/KS1G5-SmjaQ/video.htmlsi=Ufpjpplizva0rv2a
This makes me think of an interesting issue. For a group of people so good at making tools, that all tend to do the same function. How come that tend to not combine functions? As Alton Brown would say, a bunch of unitaskers....
There have been some combination tools that combined a staking set and jewel press but they never caught on.
I don’t even have to watch this to know the Sietz is better but I fell for the Horia clone.
It’s been used a few times successfully but recently I needed to ream a hole and it’s impossible on the Horia.
Your estimation on the price of a Seitz is well off, at least here in the uk. I’ve been looking at them and they are all going £300-500 !! For a complete set
Hello, Mike, I believe what I said was that a full set of Horia was around two grand. The Seitz sells for much less here in the states as well.
@@watchrepairtutorials sorry yes the Horia is stupidly expensive and I don’t think those reamers are for the micrometer tool as I had this discussion recently the opinion is those reamers fit another Horia tool as the micrometer one does not actually turn it only pushes down.
The Seitz tool I’ve been actively trying to buy over the last few weeks and have been out bid on every occasion ! Fortunately I have a watch fair on the 12th so might find one there.
@MyRetroWatches keep your eyes out Mike and you’ll find the perfect one
@@MyRetroWatches It took me a good while to get a decent set for reasonable money.
There is also the Favourite brand, that sometimes come with a faceplate to hold bridges ect for reaming. But for the Seitz, one can still buy new reamers, puchers ect. For not to silly prices. Think it was rebranded to bergeon a while a go. But is the same as seitz. The tool has modern bergeon look though.
Considering the sometimes asking prices on fleabay ect. It might make sense to get a brand new set complete. Without missing parts, or worn reamers and puchers.
Think it took me 6months to find my set.
@MyRetroWatches I'd you're considering a cheap jeweling set you can also look into CE Marshall jeweling sets and they're just as good.
Hi Alex, your Seitz set seems to come with extra accessories. The ones that i see listed on eBay look complete, but only come with pushers and anvils. They don't have the reamers or the accessory that allows you to replace jewels in chatons? Where did you get those? I currently have a jewel press, Favorite brand. But it only comes with pushers and anvils . Any idea whether they make the same accessories for the Favorite so that i can build out a complete set, with reamers and chaton jewel press? Thank you for this video!
All basic Seitz sets come with the pushers and reamers. That's what I have. The accessories were purchased separately. You can also find complete sets with everything included.
I am not sure if Favorite made any accessories like Seitz. They was supplying watch factories back in the day so I am pretty sure these tools were developed for that type of work.
The Chaton tool just sits on the table and floats around so as long as your press table is large enough and you have reamers it would work. the index pins fit into its own table which goes into the hole were the table fits into.
-Alex
@@watchrepairtutorials thanks Alex, can you tell me the names if the chaton accessory and the index pins? I'd like to go hunting for one.
Hi.
please a quick question away from this topic. I am working on a TISSOT watch. The escape wheel and the pallet fork are made of plastic. can we use oil and what type? Thanks a lot.🙏
What’s the movement number?
@@watchrepairtutorials
Hi. It’s a TISSOT HIGH - TECH ESCAPEMENT 23 JEWELS. 2824-2. the escape wheel and pallet fork are made of gray plastic.
@@L_HORLOGER as far as I know no. If the escape wheel was steel then yes.
I am just starting my journey and the pricetags on everything is leagues above whatever money i can even get from working, so im kind of forced into finding the cheapest things that still has good reviews among other watchmakers, so a Seitz is something i would have to take a loan to even think about, will a clone suffice for every-day "normal" watches ?
Sure. For friction fit jewels, it will be just fine.
Where to buy tools. What links can be used
Link in description
Alex....you have 20 thousand subscribers...
That’s crazy to me brother. I think you were one of the first weren’t you?
@@watchrepairtutorials pretty close to the first. They dont have to be 2 hour classroom lessons but you have to throw us a bone once in a while. Lol
My clone Horia looks and works great!
Yes, like I said in the video they do for pushing in and pushing out friction for jewels but that wasn’t the point of the video. The Seitz has much more functionality as I touched on.
@@watchrepairtutorials Yeah, I wish I could afford the best tools and equipment. Too bad that I ruined a cap jewel chaton. I spread it out too far not paying close enough attention. I might have to try to cement the jewel into the chaton... I'm such a numbskull.
@@robertcalkjr.8325 yea that’s not going to work. Replace it. And hey you don’t always need the best most expensive tools. They are important when precision is involve but I have a lot of Chinese clones that work just as well as Horia or Bergeon
@@watchrepairtutorials Yes sir, you are correct. I bought a non-running movement for parts. It looks like the balance on it is in good shape. I only need one balance hole jewel and the lower balance cap jewel chatons.
I can't afford the best tools most of the time. I bought a lot of vintage tools for a decent price back before Covid hit. I also love vintage Dumont tweezers. And I love quality screwdrivers. I just bought a nice set of Bergeon 6899-S10 ergonomic stainless steel screwdrivers on the rotating base.
I'm tired of using my cheap screwdrivers and I don't want to use my nice 8899-A10 Beryllium screwdrivers on cheaper watch movements.
@@watchrepairtutorials Oh man, these Bergeon ergonomic stainless steel screwdrivers are a dream! I love them. I also like that they have a little more weight to them compared to my beryllium screwdrivers. And the tips should hold up much better.
Hopefully my donor movement will get here tomorrow and I can fix up my Elgin 18s Grade 74 pocket watch. I bought a nice yellow Waldemar 13" chain to wear it on my leather vest.
Then I'm servicing my 1970 Bulova wristwatch. It has an immaculate 8EA movement that is simply gorgeous.
Seems like you were comparing the Seitz with the cheap Horia clone. I know that you mentioned a genuine Horia is much more expensive, and cost is always a huge consideration, but would it be fair to conclude that you believe that the features the Seitz has also make it a better tool than a genuine Horia (i.e it’s not just the quality difference between the cheap clone and the genuine Horia but also that the function set of the clone and the genuine are similar/identical)?
Yes, the comparison has to do more with the functionality of the Horia style tool no matter whether it’s the original or the clone. The Horia style tool does basically one thing whereas the Sietz jeweling tool, at least the newer versions, have much more functionality, especially if you’re working on older time pieces.
Meaning noone any offense, I just think I am getting a real "thing" about buying tools in general. When it comes to used tools thewre is the matter of overprice, damaged or missing bits or unavailability of parts. (I picked up on an old JACOT tool at a decent price but the lanterns and rails were out of this World!!) When it comes to New tools there is still the matter of Overprice, but there is also durability, compatibility with existing tools (see: lathes and mills) and fit-and-finish. I am done to finding responsible
vendors who I can trust to give me a decent piece at a decent price......but they don't have a shop on every corner. Even the NAWCC Chapter marts can get to be awfully pricey and not a little dodgy when it comes to tools.
Now I Have had luck with BERGEON and HOROTEC but not as consistently as their price point might suggest. No real point other than letting the Old Man vent a bit.....thanks. 😢
No offense taken. I agree with you in principle but for new watchmakers these prices on new equipment are often deal breakers. You definitely have to do a lot of research to know what should be included and ask for pictures of specific area’s that you are concerned with.
Vent away. 😀
Well fuck I just bought one.
Don’t feel bad. The stumps are still usable in a Seitz if you ever get one. 👍
@@watchrepairtutorials well that's good news! I just went and bought a second hand seitz now, so between that and the horia clone I should be good to go.
Are chinese clones that bad?
Not for the money. The base is well made. The pushers are a bit wonky but they do require more care when using them because they don’t center themselves on the jewel like the original tool would.
So, if all you work on his friction fit movements, it would be fine. The point of the video is that if you were working on vintage move at the Seitz tool is more versatile.
@@watchrepairtutorials thanks Alex. I see, I dont work on watches that old. Also, following up on your courses, very nice work!