Film water-stop bath and fixing technique for Pyrocat-HD and other developers.
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- čas přidán 24. 08. 2024
- Pictorial Planet darkroom technique series.
After developing a film you must stop and fix the film correctly. In this video I demonstrate water stop baths, especially useful with pyro developers but also beneficial for any developer if development time is longer than 6 minutes. I also show how to take the guess work out of fixing the film for the right amount of time to maintain those delicate highlights.
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John Finch
Thanks John. Just found your channel. One of the few people on CZcams to have very useful technical information.
Thank you Gerald!
Thanks for your videos.
My first experience Pyro developers, was with Gordon Hutchings PMK. Upon completion of fixing he plunged the film back into the used developer, to maximise the stain. I see no one else recommending this step with other Pyro developers.
I really liked the effect with PMK, but everything that could go wrong, did so with my films. .. and I followed the steps meticulously, including cleanliness and temperature controls.
Your process seems to be less problematic, by far. 😳
PMK is a lovely developer indeed. And I remember the recommendation to place the film back in the developer after fixing. Thornton then said any alkali would do so suggested a carbonate solution made with a teaspoon of sodium carbonate in a litre of water. It was supposed to increase the stain wasn't it? Then it was found that it really only increased general stain so was not as useful as thought. I have always found Pyrocat to be a very good developer and pretty bulletproof proof .
Good job on your video mate, keep up the good work
Thanks, Drew!
Water or eco pro is the way to go if you have a septic and or well water. The heavy acid in stop baths can change your ph levels in your water- not good.
You can also use trays of water for dark room stops. Just use 2-3 water trays for stages before fixer
Hi Nicholas, thanks for your comment. Although the PH of fresh stop is low it rises with reuse due to the alkaline nature of developer crossover from the film or paper into the stop. Very soon it's the same PH as urine. If anyone is worried about throwing stop bath away then use an indicator stop bath or PH papers to test the stop. Once it's at PH 5 it can be discarded without worry. If you are using developers as "one shot" then by throwing away the developer and the stop they will effectively neutralise each other. Another point is that sceptic tanks very effectively destroy the stop and developer with a powerful reducing effect thus rendering them harmless. Finally I'd say that there are much more potent cleaning chemicals that go into your sceptic tank that are also reduced safely and don't effect ground water. To sum up, photographic chemistry is not a problem with sceptics and ground water if used on the small scale if a home darkroom.
Is there a reason you don't agitate using the agitator rod? Inversion made more sense to me when I used stainless steel tanks.
Using the agitator rod ensures the chemistry is always in contact with the film.
Thanks.
You might have missed this video. It was an early one. I like twizzle sticks but show inversion agitation because most people use that method. Done properly inversion agitation is very effective and there's no problem with the film not always being in the developer otherwise it wouldn't be recommended by Ilford etc.
@@PictorialPlanet Thanks! The key is the 'done properly' part. 🤓
John, happened on your channel looking for something and quickly realizing the value, went back to the beginning and working my way through. Appreciate you sharing your experience and and knowledge.
Why would one desire their film to be stained?
Thanks,
Adriel
Hi Adriel. Pyrocatechin and pyrogallol staining developers stain in proportion to exposure. The higher the exposure the more the stain. This creates extra density in the highlights helping control contrast. Less burning in, better highlights in scan or print.
Was using the new TF 5 but did not like the effects it left on the film after reusing it a few times. Went back to the TF 4 for a while now and I see no problems.
This is great! Very informative. Just got my Pyrocat HD last night from Photographer's Formulary. I'm going to try it out. Do you just put the developer back in at this point after the fix? and how long? Is this a necessary step?
Hi Regaling! No need to put the developer back in after fixing. That advice has been superseded and now you just wash the film as normal.
@@PictorialPlanet thank you 👌🏼
@@PictorialPlanet oh, and you said don’t use stop bath. Even in short times (say 6mins)?
@@regaling For such a short time I'd use a stop bath. For Pyrocat, 510, and other staining developers you might get reduced stain though.
@@PictorialPlanet This will be my first time printing in a darkroom. Can you talk about why the staining can be helpful when printing?
Hi John, love your channel been a fan since you started posting. I have recently got some 510 pyro which I intend to use with FP4, Pan-f and possibly HP5 my question is do I HAVE to use an alkaline fixer? I've watched your great video on making the TF-2 fixer but fear I can't get around to doing that at the moment. Any advice greatly appreciated. Thanks and keep up the great work.
Thanks for your question! No, you don't have to. Your results will still be great. I would advise that next time you buy fix (or want to make it) you do get the alkaline variety as it will optimise your use of 510 but use what you have now and enjoy this great developer! BTW, if you eventually want to purchase alkaline fixer a good supplier is listed on my website.
@@PictorialPlanet That's fantastic John many thanks for your quick reply. I will be trying the 510 very soon now. I think I remember you mentioned that supplier in one of your earlier videos if I recall, was it in North Wales? Thanks again so much, it may not seem such a big deal but your video from last week on loading 120 on to a reel was an absolute belter, works a treat I had so many troubles in the past and got frustrated at times.
Cheers!
Great video, John. Do pyro developers require a certain kind of fixer? Would something like Kodafix work?
A lot has been said about pyro and fixers. I use an alkaline fix for my pyro negatives but I have read a Sherman article where he uses regular Ilford Hypam and is perfectly happy with the results. Certainly the formulator of PMK, Gordon Hutchins) who did an immense amount of work studying pyro negatives advised an alkaline fixer for maximum pyro stain. So for my FP4 negatives, developed in pyro or pyrocatechin, I use TF2 fix. For Delta films I'd be happy using Agfa 304. What I never do with a pyro developer is use a sulphite hypoclear. Sulphite reduces the pyro stain so I just ensure a very efficient wash.
One question about the Pyro-stain: this only really matters if you´re scanning, right? I mean the stain will not translate to the positive, except maybe different contrast?
To the contrary, pyro stain help very much in darkroom printing adding better control of the highlights meaning less burning in is needed in skies for instance.
@@PictorialPlanet thank you so much!
@Raumweiter YW! The stain is in key with the exposure. The more exposure the more the stain. Skies, for instance, or bright windows in an interior shot, get more stain and so are naturally compensated for. Stain used to be shunned. Photographers would get rid of it with sulphite. Now it's appreciated for the benefits.
Hi, would you re-use the fixer for another film or not?
I was looking forward to do the TF-3 fixer but it seems impossible to find the ammonium thiosulphate. Have you got any advice please?
Cheers
Hi Andrea, yes, the fixer lasts for a month and will fix 10-20 films or 40 10x8" papers (although you should have a separate litre made for each). When you first use the fix on film write down the clearing time. When the fix takes twice as long to clear the film it's time to make new.
Watch my video on making TF-2. That's the fix I was just referring to :)
@@PictorialPlanet- Thank you very much for your kind reply. I did watch that video and I will be doing some TF-2 for sure.
In your website I saw the recipe to making the TF-3 as well (which would be essential, I think, to fix Tmax and Delta film) and one of the ingredients is Ammonium Thiosulphate.
I was wondering if there is any way of buying it somewhere.
Anyway, thanks for keeping your website and youtube channel because they are a good source of inspirations and knowledge for the community.
Cheers,
Andrea
@@PictorialPlanet- P.S. I would like to buy your book. Is it going to be available on your website?...or where?
Thanks
Thanks for your interest in my new book, Andrea, that's very kind! If you sign up for my newsletter I'll be making an announcement soon.