But it is not as cool as the collet chuck you have - With those funky spring loaded, segmented collets that amaze me every time I see them...thank you for watching :)
I can't disagree with you there, mine is definitely cooler. :p I'm actually working on a collet chuck video -- I really wish you'd stop hacking my emails.. now I've got a tough act to follow! Although I don't have any 5C.. mine will be ER.
I have a huge Meuser lathe (was a good deal) where I have a hard time fitting a small element into the heavy and large Forkardt F250 3 jaw chuck, what is the advantage of a 5c collet chuck vs. a ER or vice versa? Or maybe there is a smart way to use ER or C5 without unmounting the Forkardt chuck? Maybe mounting a ER collet int the chuck???
@Jesus Cruz the amount of tooling, setups and time to build your own collet chuck from raw stock isn't economical at all. Same reason we all don't grow our own food or build our own cars.
Hi Stefan, came across this today. I have had one of these for my Myford ML 7 for probably eight years or so. When I first got mine it was rough and I tore it down as you did but found all sorts of junk in the over abundant grease. I had a tough time seperating the two parts but discovered that the three bolts that hold it together there are another three holes, taped from the rear that you can use the removed screws to "jack" the two parts apart without trying to get a prying tool between them. Once I'd washed all the grease and gung out of the parts I also found some very sharp edges, especially on the scroll ring and the front part of the chuck. I spent a few hours with a set of slipstones, diamond faced needle files and took all the dangerous "sticky outy" bits off. Cleaned all again, relubed more lightly this time, and reassembled. Like you I had made my backplate register a little smaller and I got mine to less than 0.0003" of runout at about 2"(50 mm) from the collet face. Overall I was a little disappointed at first but what can you expect for about the $90 or so I paid for mine. I've used it a fair amount since and have yet to have a problem with it. Like you most of my work is small stuff that I can do on either the 5C's or ER 25 collets. Anything over an inch goes into a conventional three or four jaw chuck. Thanks for the videos from Canada's banana belt.🤞🇨🇦🍌🥋🕊️🇺🇦🕊️🇩🇪👍
Stefan, how awesomely convenient. I was struggling with one of these all day yesterday and I was on the verge of sending it back to the seller on Amazon. I was battling several problems. Firstly my crappy Grizzly 0.0005" dial indicator, 2) not giving enough clearance on the mating flange despite thinking that if I had a close fit everything would be perfect, and 3) my technique for aligning the chuck after I figured out yesterday that maybe the mating flange is the problem. After watching this video I machined off another 0.015" from the mating flange and followed your high side tapping technique to center the chuck. Works brilliantly. Now the chuck is running out about 0.0005 tested about 1" from a 1/2" collet chuck using a 1/2" drill. Thank you so much. BTW, I replaced the Grizzly with a much more expensive Mitutoyo dial indicator and my measurements that were jumping around all over the place with the Grizzly settled down to a place where I could reason about what I was seeing. You get what you pay for. Thanks again for this video!
After watching this video I reworked my 3 jaw Buck chuck. It was .008 out. I removed the chuck from the mounting plate and turned down the indexing ridge on the mount plate and remounted the vice. My screws mount from the front of the chuck so it was easy to dial it in to .0001-2 tenths Mititoyu. I am a happy camper, thanks for the idea Stefan.
Excellent Stefan, The "not made here" ranters miss a simple fact: import machine tool ancilliaries are not always unusable junk. Shrewd shopping and a willingness to remedy small faults can result in perfectly usable shop equipment. I suspect most of the import tool fault finders throw up their hands at the first sign of imperfection wailing to the world that only worn-out domestic equipment is to be considered ignoring completely that "worn out" is a greater source of bad parts, frustration, and wasted time than the process of inspecting and fixing minor defects in new, tight, and accurate imported equipment. Your careful exposition of the imported chuck, rotary table, etc and now indexer shows the prospective shopper what to expect and how to methodically fix lower cost import shop equipment. Way to go.
Thanks to your video, I got one of my own just today. Probably the same factory, with an invisible parting line, but the operation was pretty crunchy. It had a LOT of cuttings in it. A little deburring, a good cleaning and fresh white lithium grease and life is good. On the plus side, they had sharpened the beaver and all surfaces were top notch, with no witness or apprentice marks. Heads up to anyone else: Those part lines are sharp enough to part flesh. No joke. I had to cut myself a second time while I was figuring out where the blood was coming from. A very useful video. Vielen dank
Thanks for the inspection. I have a similar sized lathe that can't accept a 5C through the spindle, so I have wanted to get something like this. Not having the equipment to do a complete regrind on one of these, I wasn't sure it would be a good purchase. I am very surprised and impressed that there was no grinding dust mixed into the grease. These items just keep getting better. I feel a lot better about getting one, now.
Hi Stefan, Well done video on the inspection and tear down. I purchased one of these for my Emco Maier and tore it down just because. I found the same thing you did, pretty clean over all. Thanks for sharing! Take Care, Reid
Found this great video just after I figured out how to get mine apart, wish I'd seen it earlier - it took me a while to spot the join too - in fact I was beginning to think it must have been grown from seed... I would echo your comments about the finish being really nice and the overall accuracy is good but the internal burrs I found were horrendous and turned out to be the problem, the symptoms were that the action would almost lock every several turns of the key. The root cause were huge burrs on the inside edge of the holes bored for the two beveled pinions, one had come off (the others were only half attached) and got embedded in the root of the 'crown' gear and the jam was every 1/2 turn of that gear as it meshed with each pinion. 20 minutes work cleaning things up, a dollop of fresh grease and it runs smooth and sweet.
Great tear down video Stefan. I have just found your channel from Randy Richards and subscribed. Looking forward to watching all your videos on these cold winter nights.
Great subject on these teardown videos, It's ironic because I was just looking at those same chucks for my machine shop at work, and then I see you did a video on them! For us these tend to get abused and generally speaking we aren't using these to hold high tolerances anyway. I like the trick of machining a bit of clearance on the OD of the adapter to allow adjustment, I did the same thing with the ones I mounted at work and it works well. I am coming around to Chinese made tools a little more, I think it is great for the hobbyist but for the professional you can save a few bucks if it isn't mission critical, then you don't feel so bad if you shank it! I'm a toolmaker / CNC machinist professionally and I buy them for certain things where there is no sense spending 3x the price. Love your videos man, keep them coming!
Hey Stefan, wanted to shout out and say thanks for your videos and additional blog content. As a beginner it's been very helpful for me to learn from you. I ended up making a ER40 Collet Chuck that came out almost as good as your 5C chuck, your spindle taper drawings and notes were quite handy since my lathe is an Optimum clone that uses a similar spindle design as the Emco Super 11. Cheers.
Nice teardown... interesting to watch how those work... and a nice objective point of view cash/precision/usability. Very enjoyable and funny to see you scratching everything with your little hardness files... "I'm not a tool and die maker"... yeah... water isn't wet and I am a machinist. ;) Thank you so much for sharing your adventure... love it!
ya right, when you know what you are doing it comes easy......it looks like Stefan has been at it a lonnnnnnnng time....great video,and thank you for sharing.
I have owned and used a mini lathe and a mini mill with attachments for over 8 yrs...They work well as long as you remember they are made offshore and made for light duty......I can make lots of things with them and do. Amazing at the great jobs they will do. Have a great day and thank you....
I have one of these chucks for my Colchester Bantam lathe, I noticed when I bought some new 5C. Collets they didn't fit into the bore of the chuck. So please take care when you buy any more collets..I very much enjoy your videos, keep up the good work, kind regards keith russell UK
I have a Chinese 5C collet chuck as well. My back plate bolts are through the back vs the front which prohibits making the fine tuning in the run out like you can with yours. Internally it looks identical to yours; however, mine has a thrust bearing between the pinion gear and the housing surface.
1.21 million times - lol. My lathe has the same spindle bore and I've been looking for a through hole collet chuck. Been using an MT4 - ER style but this obviously requires a draw bar. Thanks for this. Great work as usual.
Hi Stefan, I have just watched this video and am intrigued by the mounting for the chuck on your lathe. Is this a standard method or your own design? I am currently building a lathe around an Emco compact 5 lathe and it would seem that this would be a good method of speeding up the fixing of chucks to the existing spindle.
Hi stephan, watch your very informative videos for some time, I need your advice. Bought a small precission lathe new , 160mm chuck 700mm between centres. It has an MT.5 taper hole in the headstock. I am new to this. Which ER(32) collet chuck holder do I need without incorporating a sleeve-? A place in my country selling parts suggest the following=ER32-CM5/H50 COLLETCHUCK , which is a set of 18 collets and the Chuck. I need more knowledge regading dealing with a collet chuck and MT5 taper.....
I bought one of these with my PM1440HD lathe. There 4 screws that allow some adjustment of the (D1-4) back plate to perfectly center it. It has a ball oiler. It seems very nicely made & finished, as do the set of collets. I don't see how they can be sold so cheaply. I have used it more than I thought I would.
I am prescribed to your channel and really appreciate your accurate work. For me machining is one of my hobbies. I got into it more 20 years ago when I started my retirement project, to replicate all motorbikes I built and rode front 1945 to 1955 in Europe. Though I was on the lathe by 1940 as I grew up in the steel business, by profession I am a structural engineer. my channel is That Old Bob and the #27 presentation is an adapter for using 5C collet on the lathe. I am not pleased with it, it has a ran-out of one thou, which is the one qourter of a tenth of a mm. Most likely I made the mistake by hand sandpaper polishing. I f I live long enough I will make another one using grinders. congratulation for your excellent work, I will keep watching. Bob
An other item for the ever growing wishlist. Great video. I have been thinking of making something similar for ER40 collets. A quick E-bay search should reveal what I am thinking off. Now I am wondering why you chose 5C collets, since it seems you already have a selection of ER collets. Are the ER collets not good for work holding?
Stefan, you checked the run-out of the collet chuck at the nose taper where the 5C collet seats. That sets the run-out at the nose of the collet. It would also be interesting to know the run-out at the feature which locates the BACK end (threaded) of the collet, which then determines the run-out of the clamped piece (say) 100mm out from the collet nose. It's not clear to me if the locating feature is the threaded gear ring or if it's a ground cylindrical bore next to that. The play in the internal thread of the gear ring looks like enough (say 0.05mm?) that I hope it's not the feature which sets the rear location of the collet. Do you know?
Nice video Stefan.... I'm sure of a couple of things: 1 Find the "sweetest" key of the 2 that will tighten the collet with the highest precision and always use that one. 2 At one point, I thought that when you rotated the collet, the indicator stuttered noticeably. That would indicate head bearing issues. I always changed the bearings on my chinese and taiwanese lathes for good reputable bearings and boy what a difference 3 Watch that tightening torque Bikers Garage 101 approves!
Hello I recently got a new lathe and I have been trying to figure out what spindle taper I have for the backplate. After about 100 videos I finally came across yours. This is the closest I have seen to mine. It’s the same connections but mine has 4 standoff bolts. What is this spindle taper called? Thanks for the video nice work
Very nice video. You could consider threading the ID of the collet chuck backplate to accept a collet stop. Collet stops mounted directly to the collet thread are less accurate because they draw back with the collet, whereas this collet chuck allows you to use a fixed collet stop. And the backplate is a convenient place to mount that stop.
I like the teardown videos, it's interesting to see and hear of your opinion about them. One thing I would like to see is a direct comparison of a CE product compared to a "first class" product regarding tolerances and prices. CE products have come a long way and to refer to them as "el cheapo" can be true in the cost but as a quality stand point is false and this video represents this very much so. Keep doing your thing, your videos are great. ty
Not sure if anyone already mentioned this or if it is still of any interest, but you can buy a cheap square socket with a normal 3/8 or 1/4 inch drive (like any socket) that will fit in the cordless driver. Look for sump plug tools in auto shops (I found quite a few versions in Swedish shops like Biltema or similar). That might save you the time to machine a square adaptor to undo the collets and cost peanuts.
Nice, thanks. I do have the same kind of chuck and also realized the barely visible split line. Was tempted to take it apart, but did not dare to. Thanks for doing that for me :-) Mine has quite a bit of runout though - 5/100 mm. The spigot of my backplate has a snug fit, which I did not want to turn down, as it perfectly matches another chuck. So a second backplate is on the list for quite some time. This one then will have a smaller spigot like Yours. Frank
me neither. I love the ability to true up my three-jaw chuck. it‘s just that this one "accidentally" turned out just the way I wanted it and therefore like to keep it like that. A dedicaded Backplate per chuck is the better option anyway. The reason I did not built it yet, is that I also do have a Bison 5C collet chuck with(!) Set Tru which is brand new but has a minor defect on the reference side - long story, how I came to have these two. This is of course the preferred one, but a bit more work ahead... Frank
Hello Mr. Stephen I love to watch you work. This was a great video. I was wondering if you are ever contemplating the teardown clean lubricate and reassembly of a Wolhaupter? This is in your DNA snd would be thrilling to watch. Thanks again for the great videos you put out and the information you teach us every time.
Hi Stefan I'm a fan of your videos and that's why I subscribe it. In this video of your "Shoptalk # 7 / 9x20 lathe / 05-2015" you say you turned off the banjo and gears because you only use it to make threads. So my question is this: Since thus the leadscrew does not rotate you can not engage the half nut and the longitudinal feed does not work. How is it possible to turn this way?
Very nice chuck. I too am surprised how clean it was. I have a similar unit...with integrated D1-4 camlock. Mine however has a thrust bearing inside if I remember correctly. Biggest problem I had was using import collets and having a tight fit getting the collet in the unit.
CompEdgeX - Interesting. I have pretty much the same lathe as you do, and also got a collet nose (probably the same one you have, since we are both in Canada, and I have seen you use other tools from that supplier) ... Mine is very accurate but I also find it a very tight fit getting the collets started. One the thread catches, everything is fine, but I usually have to give them a couple light thumps with my fist to get them to catch. But for the price, I am very happy overall ...
When you say integrated D1-4, does than mean your chuck does not have the front mount bolts to tweak concentricity & re-tighten the way Stefan did on his self-machined back plate? If so, how accurate is your collet taper to the lathe spindle axis? I have a Bison 5C D1-4 & its within 0.001", but 3X the cost. If I had to buy again I would get a Set-Tru style (or whatever the clones call their system).
Peter Thannhauser Correct. Mine is a solid block with the D taper cut into it and cannot be adjusted. I just laid a tenths indicator on it and got 6-8 tenths on the taper. Pretty much the same with a 5/8" carbide endmill clamped up as well. Not all bad for 300 Canadian clams. :-)
I looked but could not find the brand of the chuck. I found some on Amazon that look similar...anyone know which one it might be? really enjoyed the teardown and evaluation.
your acumen for milling astounds me , very interesting . someone asked me the significence of the equation of 1/2x28 by 3/4 16th i thought it was to do with some kind of milled threading ?
Nice review Stefan. CDCO in the US sells it for $169.00. I bought one to use as a starting point for an adjustable collet nose for my Tormach lathe. The quality was identical to what you showed but mine had the typical dirty Chinese grease. by the way, I am no tool and die maker either. ATB, Robin
Thanks Robin :) I like the fact that you also don't shy away from buying, using and improving cheap tooling, even as you run a bunch of very nice machines.
“Typical dirty Chinese grease” Do you ever get the feeling they are toying with us? What is the cost of clean grease with $1/hour labor? pennies! You can be sure the quality of machine work done for the Chinese military is equal to the best we have.
Thanks, Robin, but note that a quick check shows freight seems to be about 15 pct up to about $2000 where it becomes free. Still, the freight is peanuts vs dealing with defective crap. I got three consecutive Bluetooth keyboards from Amazon early this year. Somebody must have been selling rejects.
I just received from CDCO a 5C collet chuck. It is nothing like what Stefan shows in this video. First of all it's a 3 pinion chuck, not 2. Second, the two separate halves are not ground or finished. There is a large bevel at the joint where the 2 halves meet. After inspecting the chuck internals I found that the bevel gear and pinion gear are not hardened or machined. The casting is horrible. The material has many pits and is very rough. All of the internal surfaces that were machined look like whatever tool they used was worn out. Like Stefan said it looked like a beaver chewed it up. Worst off all, The corners of the bevel gear have missing teeth. I don't see how I would have much luck applying any torque to tighten a Collet. The only good thing about this Chuck is there is a bearing between the bevel gear and the front housing. I don't know how important it is but it seems to work nice. I am returning this chuck and have one on order from LMS. After speaking to them i'm pretty sure I'm going to get something similar to Stefan's. I got my fingers crossed!
My lathe has a D1-3 mount, unfortunately. But otherwise it’s very good. That mount makes buying a lot of things more difficult. Larger chucks such as 8” 3 jaw and 10” 4 jaw no longer come in D1-3. So when I saw a Grizzly South Bend 5C with d1-3 mount for $174 including shipping, I bought it. Their other versions are much more expensive. I suppose they priced it down because almost no one has D1-3. For once I lucked out. It’s very good. I also take these things apart when I buy them, and this is clean in pretty much every way. It’s smooth operating, and pretty accurate. It’s about 0.0004” out at the collet, and about 0.0006” at 2”, which is about as far out as I use collets, unsupported at the end. I didn’t think about the screw idea to center it, or I might have bought one without a D-13 and bought one plain and a separate D1-3 back and did what you did. It’s a good idea. I wonder if I could have gotten it closer if I did.
nice video, by the way have you thought about a battery powered rattle gun, that hole looks about 3/8 OR 1/2 inch, a ready made size for these tools, and gets it done in seconds flat, then you only use the hand tool for tightening the work piece.
Very interesting, I have a smaller lathe than you I think (115mm center height), but the same spindle bore size. I was told a 5C chuck would be too big and hang out too far for such a small spindle. I still want one however, been thinking of a chinese ER32 collet chuck instead, but maybe a 5C is better, I don't know....
Dear Stefan, at 16:19 I see you are using a soft-hammer which I have the same for more than 20 years. 10 ago I (manage) to destroyed the one side soft plastic. When i try to get a replacement here in my country they was look at me that I came from another planet and that was not possible to find anything like that. Please if you have any infos about it please let me know. BTW I am planing to buy one of this 5C collet chuck, and I see, that this what you have, looks pretty good. I know that you may don't want to say from where you get it, but can you tell as how much you pay for that.... Thanks in Advance
By any chance does the casting on your lathe's headstock have sufficient material to look into installing larger bearings so you could increase the spindle bore so you could go to a 5C or another collet type in the spindle itself?. The one thing that bothers me about these and I have used them is the part in the collet is probably farther from the front bearing than the bearings on the spindle are apart. Nice review and it looks to be nicer than the ones I have seen personally. Part of this I suspect has to do with the expectations of the customers in Europe being higher than most customers in the US who frankly are more concerned with cost.
cast iron have an evident advantage for damping vibrations, it's the main reason why all machine tool frames are cast iron castings and not steel castings
Well, that's it, I've got to have one now. The price on them always seemed suspect but if they're decent and save me chucking and indicating small stock in my four jaw I'm in.
Thanks for sharing this, nice one. These chuck back plates are sold here in the UK, my small lathe got the same system and i think i cannot really make them for the price they charge. Just google for Arc Eurotrade and look for the Sieg C6 backplates (no connection to these guys, just a happy customer) They also fit the Einhell IKD 400 and IKD550 lathes
the bore for the pinion gears are drilled with a insert drill before the Turing ... CNC live tooling lathe. the surface aren't so beauty because the insert drill run without internal High pressure coolant and the chip rub in the surface
Stefan, thanks for sharing and taking the time to put this video together. It seems to me, that the chuck itself is more accurate than the collets themselves, is this correct? If so, how would you tighten that tolerance up? Thanks! AAR
I dont think that there is a good way to improve the collets themself. But as said, that was a 3-26mm set in 1mm increments. It cost 180Eur - Thats 7,50 per collet. For that money, the precision they are able to deliver is rather impressive. Keep in mind that the indicator shows 2/1000mm per division ;)
Thanks Stefan. I couldn't come up with any idea that was modestly simple, as there are two concentric surfaces to attend to, and either one or both might be off. As you said, for the money they're better than fine. Thanks again! AAR
It would be nice to see a video on your magnetic lathe chuck as I have never seen one before or even heard of one before you mentioned it. As usual, many thanks for an edifying tutorial.
Stephan, I too just got one of these. But my chuck came with a back plate and the correct one too. Difference is I don't have the balls to take mine apart! Possibly some day. The machining is like gunsmith work. Yours is excellent too. We love our inexpensive tools don't we, not cheap, inexpensive! Thank you for your video this one was especially good.
i have seen those around and wouldn't have expected those results. interesting & enjoyed!
But it is not as cool as the collet chuck you have - With those funky spring loaded, segmented collets that amaze me every time I see them...thank you for watching :)
I can't disagree with you there, mine is definitely cooler. :p
I'm actually working on a collet chuck video -- I really wish you'd stop hacking my emails.. now I've got a tough act to follow! Although I don't have any 5C.. mine will be ER.
I have a huge Meuser lathe (was a good deal) where I have a hard time fitting a small element into the heavy and large Forkardt F250 3 jaw chuck, what is the advantage of a 5c collet chuck vs. a ER or vice versa? Or maybe there is a smart way to use ER or C5 without unmounting the Forkardt chuck? Maybe mounting a ER collet int the chuck???
why a machinist buy metal parts if he can do it ?
@Jesus Cruz the amount of tooling, setups and time to build your own collet chuck from raw stock isn't economical at all. Same reason we all don't grow our own food or build our own cars.
"I am no tool and die maker" says the guy that made his own Micrometer, sine bars, squareness comparator, and toolpost grinder. lol
Haha :D
he's right tho, of course.
Sometimes we borrow the toolmaker's hat for a moment :)
Hi Stefan, came across this today. I have had one of these for my Myford ML 7 for probably eight years or so. When I first got mine it was rough and I tore it down as you did but found all sorts of junk in the over abundant grease. I had a tough time seperating the two parts but discovered that the three bolts that hold it together there are another three holes, taped from the rear that you can use the removed screws to "jack" the two parts apart without trying to get a prying tool between them. Once I'd washed all the grease and gung out of the parts I also found some very sharp edges, especially on the scroll ring and the front part of the chuck. I spent a few hours with a set of slipstones, diamond faced needle files and took all the dangerous "sticky outy" bits off. Cleaned all again, relubed more lightly this time, and reassembled. Like you I had made my backplate register a little smaller and I got mine to less than 0.0003" of runout at about 2"(50 mm) from the collet face. Overall I was a little disappointed at first but what can you expect for about the $90 or so I paid for mine. I've used it a fair amount since and have yet to have a problem with it. Like you most of my work is small stuff that I can do on either the 5C's or ER 25 collets. Anything over an inch goes into a conventional three or four jaw chuck.
Thanks for the videos from Canada's banana belt.🤞🇨🇦🍌🥋🕊️🇺🇦🕊️🇩🇪👍
You distinguish yourself well with unique, interesting, and very thorough videos. Great job.
John Strange
Thank you!
Stefan, how awesomely convenient. I was struggling with one of these all day yesterday and I was on the verge of sending it back to the seller on Amazon. I was battling several problems. Firstly my crappy Grizzly 0.0005" dial indicator, 2) not giving enough clearance on the mating flange despite thinking that if I had a close fit everything would be perfect, and 3) my technique for aligning the chuck after I figured out yesterday that maybe the mating flange is the problem. After watching this video I machined off another 0.015" from the mating flange and followed your high side tapping technique to center the chuck. Works brilliantly. Now the chuck is running out about 0.0005 tested about 1" from a 1/2" collet chuck using a 1/2" drill. Thank you so much. BTW, I replaced the Grizzly with a much more expensive Mitutoyo dial indicator and my measurements that were jumping around all over the place with the Grizzly settled down to a place where I could reason about what I was seeing. You get what you pay for. Thanks again for this video!
After watching this video I reworked my 3 jaw Buck chuck. It was .008 out. I removed the chuck from the mounting plate and turned down the indexing ridge on the mount plate and remounted the vice. My screws mount from the front of the chuck so it was easy to dial it in to .0001-2 tenths Mititoyu. I am a happy camper, thanks for the idea Stefan.
Excellent Stefan, The "not made here" ranters miss a simple fact: import machine tool ancilliaries are not always unusable junk. Shrewd shopping and a willingness to remedy small faults can result in perfectly usable shop equipment.
I suspect most of the import tool fault finders throw up their hands at the first sign of imperfection wailing to the world that only worn-out domestic equipment is to be considered ignoring completely that "worn out" is a greater source of bad parts, frustration, and wasted time than the process of inspecting and fixing minor defects in new, tight, and accurate imported equipment.
Your careful exposition of the imported chuck, rotary table, etc and now indexer shows the prospective shopper what to expect and how to methodically fix lower cost import shop equipment. Way to go.
I was reading this and thought ''Forrest from Practical machinist would agree with this'' and then realized it was you...
Hi Stefan, I add my thanks as well. These teardown videos are very interesting and informative. Bob
The best MACHINE CHANNEL on the internet.
Thanks to your video, I got one of my own just today. Probably the same factory, with an invisible parting line, but the operation was pretty crunchy. It had a LOT of cuttings in it. A little deburring, a good cleaning and fresh white lithium grease and life is good. On the plus side, they had sharpened the beaver and all surfaces were top notch, with no witness or apprentice marks.
Heads up to anyone else: Those part lines are sharp enough to part flesh. No joke. I had to cut myself a second time while I was figuring out where the blood was coming from.
A very useful video. Vielen dank
Thanks for the inspection. I have a similar sized lathe that can't accept a 5C through the spindle, so I have wanted to get something like this. Not having the equipment to do a complete regrind on one of these, I wasn't sure it would be a good purchase. I am very surprised and impressed that there was no grinding dust mixed into the grease. These items just keep getting better. I feel a lot better about getting one, now.
Very nice chuck. Compared to many others it is quite impressive. I am sure the custom back-plate makes it all the better!
Very nice. Just what I needed. I was on the fence about getting one but now I'm sold. Thanks brother
Hi Stefan,
Well done video on the inspection and tear down. I purchased one of these for my Emco Maier and tore it down just because. I found the same thing you did, pretty clean over all. Thanks for sharing!
Take Care,
Reid
Thank you Stefan. Very informative. Did not know how this chuck functioned. Surprised at the quality.
Found this great video just after I figured out how to get mine apart, wish I'd seen it earlier - it took me a while to spot the join too - in fact I was beginning to think it must have been grown from seed... I would echo your comments about the finish being really nice and the overall accuracy is good but the internal burrs I found were horrendous and turned out to be the problem, the symptoms were that the action would almost lock every several turns of the key. The root cause were huge burrs on the inside edge of the holes bored for the two beveled pinions, one had come off (the others were only half attached) and got embedded in the root of the 'crown' gear and the jam was every 1/2 turn of that gear as it meshed with each pinion. 20 minutes work cleaning things up, a dollop of fresh grease and it runs smooth and sweet.
Excellent video full showing/ explaining how these work. I'm building a CNC lathe and this will be one of the options I'll be considering.
Great tear down video Stefan. I have just found your channel from Randy Richards and subscribed. Looking forward to watching all your videos on these cold winter nights.
Great subject on these teardown videos, It's ironic because I was just looking at those same chucks for my machine shop at work, and then I see you did a video on them! For us these tend to get abused and generally speaking we aren't using these to hold high tolerances anyway. I like the trick of machining a bit of clearance on the OD of the adapter to allow adjustment, I did the same thing with the ones I mounted at work and it works well. I am coming around to Chinese made tools a little more, I think it is great for the hobbyist but for the professional you can save a few bucks if it isn't mission critical, then you don't feel so bad if you shank it! I'm a toolmaker / CNC machinist professionally and I buy them for certain things where there is no sense spending 3x the price. Love your videos man, keep them coming!
Hey Stefan, wanted to shout out and say thanks for your videos and additional blog content. As a beginner it's been very helpful for me to learn from you. I ended up making a ER40 Collet Chuck that came out almost as good as your 5C chuck, your spindle taper drawings and notes were quite handy since my lathe is an Optimum clone that uses a similar spindle design as the Emco Super 11. Cheers.
Not a bad chuck. Nice inspection. Thanks Stefan.
Yep! A lot of us are interested in affordable, workable products!
Nice video Stefan I have always wanted to get one of those collect chucks for my small 13x40 MSC lathe.
Nice teardown... interesting to watch how those work... and a nice objective point of view cash/precision/usability. Very enjoyable and funny to see you scratching everything with your little hardness files... "I'm not a tool and die maker"... yeah... water isn't wet and I am a machinist. ;) Thank you so much for sharing your adventure... love it!
So glad to see you don’t smother the inside with grease as many tend to do..👍
ya right, when you know what you are doing it comes easy......it looks like Stefan has been at it a lonnnnnnnng time....great video,and thank you for sharing.
Its always worth watching your channel its in my top 5
I have owned and used a mini lathe and a mini mill with attachments for over 8 yrs...They work well as long as you remember they are made offshore and made for light duty......I can make lots of things with them and do. Amazing at the great jobs they will do. Have a great day and thank you....
I do like the teardown videos. Thanks Stefan.
I have one of these chucks for my Colchester Bantam lathe, I noticed when I bought some new 5C. Collets they didn't fit into the bore of the
chuck. So please take care when you buy any more collets..I very much enjoy your videos, keep up the good work, kind regards keith russell UK
I have a Chinese 5C collet chuck as well. My back plate bolts are through the back vs the front which prohibits making the fine tuning in the run out like you can with yours. Internally it looks identical to yours; however, mine has a thrust bearing between the pinion gear and the housing surface.
i did a ebay search for 5c chuck just minutes ago, perfekt timng. thanks for all your work maikng this videos!
Stefan happy holidays
Your teardowns are the best can you tell me the brand of the 5c chuck I'm looking to get one for my enco 9x20l lathe
1.21 million times - lol. My lathe has the same spindle bore and I've been looking for a through hole collet chuck. Been using an MT4 - ER style but this obviously requires a draw bar. Thanks for this. Great work as usual.
I got one about a year ago, pretty darn good for the price. Thanks for the video, JB San Diego
Hi Stefan, I have just watched this video and am intrigued by the mounting for the chuck on your lathe. Is this a standard method or your own design? I am currently building a lathe around an Emco compact 5 lathe and it would seem that this would be a good method of speeding up the fixing of chucks to the existing spindle.
Thanks for the teardown. I have one and now I do not need to take it apart and clean it.
Personaly I would still take it apart to be sure there is no crap inside it.
We like Stefan he always does nice work. Lance & Patrick.
Great review and teardown: I agree, I have one of these things too, and really it is very good - especially for the money.
Hi stephan, watch your very informative videos for some time, I need your advice. Bought a small precission lathe new , 160mm chuck 700mm between centres.
It has an MT.5 taper hole in the headstock. I am new to this. Which ER(32) collet chuck holder do I need without incorporating a sleeve-?
A place in my country selling parts suggest the following=ER32-CM5/H50 COLLETCHUCK , which is a set of 18 collets and the Chuck.
I need more knowledge regading dealing with a collet chuck and MT5 taper.....
Thanks for sharing, very interesting to see the internals
Love your channel. Thanks for doing it. Just bought one for my shop.
2:50. am I sensing a loose “Back to the future” reference. 1.21 gigawatts Marty.
Answered questions I didn't know I had. Thank you.
The really nice thing about this is that it doesn't obstruc the spindle bore, so you can stick long rods through the back.
I bought one of these with my PM1440HD lathe. There 4 screws that allow some adjustment of the (D1-4) back plate to perfectly center it. It has a ball oiler. It seems very nicely made & finished, as do the set of collets. I don't see how they can be sold so cheaply. I have used it more than I thought I would.
I am prescribed to your channel and really appreciate your accurate work. For me machining is one of my hobbies. I got into it more 20 years ago when I started my retirement project, to replicate all motorbikes I built and rode front 1945 to 1955 in Europe. Though I was on the lathe by 1940 as I grew up in the steel business, by profession I am a structural engineer. my channel is That Old Bob and the #27 presentation is an adapter for using 5C collet on the lathe. I am not pleased with it, it has a ran-out of one thou, which is the one qourter of a tenth of a mm. Most likely I made the mistake by hand sandpaper polishing. I f I live long enough I will make another one using grinders. congratulation for your excellent work, I will keep watching. Bob
Great teardown, looking forward to seeing it in action.
An other item for the ever growing wishlist. Great video. I have been thinking of making something similar for ER40 collets. A quick E-bay search should reveal what I am thinking off. Now I am wondering why you chose 5C collets, since it seems you already have a selection of ER collets. Are the ER collets not good for work holding?
Stefan, you checked the run-out of the collet chuck at the nose taper where the 5C collet seats. That sets the run-out at the nose of the collet. It would also be interesting to know the run-out at the feature which locates the BACK end (threaded) of the collet, which then determines the run-out of the clamped piece (say) 100mm out from the collet nose. It's not clear to me if the locating feature is the threaded gear ring or if it's a ground cylindrical bore next to that. The play in the internal thread of the gear ring looks like enough (say 0.05mm?) that I hope it's not the feature which sets the rear location of the collet. Do you know?
Nice video Stefan....
I'm sure of a couple of things:
1 Find the "sweetest" key of the 2 that will tighten the collet with the highest precision and always use that one.
2 At one point, I thought that when you rotated the collet, the indicator stuttered noticeably. That would indicate head bearing issues. I always changed the bearings on my chinese and taiwanese lathes for good reputable bearings and boy what a difference
3 Watch that tightening torque
Bikers Garage 101 approves!
I just got one of these for a South Bend 13" lathe I'm restoring, hope mine is as clean inside!
just bought one this week, great vid thanks
That is a very nice chuck. Thanks for the video.
Hello I recently got a new lathe and I have been trying to figure out what spindle taper I have for the backplate. After about 100 videos I finally came across yours. This is the closest I have seen to mine. It’s the same connections but mine has 4 standoff bolts. What is this spindle taper called? Thanks for the video nice work
What kind of lathe is that? Looks very similar to my Precision Matthews import.
Very nice video.
You could consider threading the ID of the collet chuck backplate to accept a collet stop. Collet stops mounted directly to the collet thread are less accurate because they draw back with the collet, whereas this collet chuck allows you to use a fixed collet stop. And the backplate is a convenient place to mount that stop.
Very nice Stefan, if you made a custom rear plate you could make it a set-true chuck!
Hi Stefan, nice review, that tool was screwed, blued and tattooed.
When can we expect your advice on beaver-sharpening in the surface grinder?
I ordered one of these yesterday. Good to here that these Chinese imports are decent quality.
I like the teardown videos, it's interesting to see and hear of your opinion about them. One thing I would like to see is a direct comparison of a CE product compared to a "first class" product regarding tolerances and prices. CE products have come a long way and to refer to them as "el cheapo" can be true in the cost but as a quality stand point is false and this video represents this very much so. Keep doing your thing, your videos are great. ty
Not sure if anyone already mentioned this or if it is still of any interest, but you can buy a cheap square socket with a normal 3/8 or 1/4 inch drive (like any socket) that will fit in the cordless driver. Look for sump plug tools in auto shops (I found quite a few versions in Swedish shops like Biltema or similar). That might save you the time to machine a square adaptor to undo the collets and cost peanuts.
What kind the spindle nose do you have, how is that working for you, seem pretty well design.
My lathe has the same spindle, do you have video on making the backplate?
“Cut with a dull beaver” I like that one!
I'm sure Stefan will build a "beaver sharpener" someday. It's only a matter of time.
Nice, thanks. I do have the same kind of chuck and also realized the barely visible split line. Was tempted to take it apart, but did not dare to. Thanks for doing that for me :-) Mine has quite a bit of runout though - 5/100 mm. The spigot of my backplate has a snug fit, which I did not want to turn down, as it perfectly matches another chuck. So a second backplate is on the list for quite some time. This one then will have a smaller spigot like Yours. Frank
Clear as mudd, you need a second backplate :D
I dont bother with a close fit for the spigot on the backplates anymore, I dont see any value in it.
me neither. I love the ability to true up my three-jaw chuck. it‘s just that this one "accidentally" turned out just the way I wanted it and therefore like to keep it like that. A dedicaded Backplate per chuck is the better option anyway. The reason I did not built it yet, is that I also do have a Bison 5C collet chuck with(!) Set Tru which is brand new but has a minor defect on the reference side - long story, how I came to have these two. This is of course the preferred one, but a bit more work ahead... Frank
Hello Mr. Stephen I love to watch you work.
This was a great video.
I was wondering if you are ever contemplating the teardown clean lubricate and reassembly of a Wolhaupter?
This is in your DNA snd would be thrilling to watch.
Thanks again for the great videos you put out and the information you teach us every time.
Very good. I just bought one with an adapter to fit my lathe.
I hadn’t planned on leaving any wiggle room but after watching this I think I will
thanks Stefan, now another thing on my wish list!
Do you feel a separate back plate versus integral is the safer route in case you need to correct some runout?
"Beaver cutter" LOL! Interesting video Thanks for sharing!
how important is the back plate raised area that goes into the recess, since the bolts are the part that sets the alignment up?
Hi Stefan
I'm a fan of your videos and that's why I subscribe it.
In this video of your "Shoptalk # 7 / 9x20 lathe / 05-2015" you say you turned off the banjo and gears because you only use it to make threads. So my question is this:
Since thus the leadscrew does not rotate you can not engage the half nut and the longitudinal feed does not work. How is it possible to turn this way?
once more a interesting and informative piece off work
thank you
Richard Westerfield
I was hoping to find the back plate for this chuck video? Can you help?
Very nice chuck. I too am surprised how clean it was. I have a similar unit...with integrated D1-4 camlock. Mine however has a thrust bearing inside if I remember correctly. Biggest problem I had was using import collets and having a tight fit getting the collet in the unit.
CompEdgeX - Interesting. I have pretty much the same lathe as you do, and also got a collet nose (probably the same one you have, since we are both in Canada, and I have seen you use other tools from that supplier) ... Mine is very accurate but I also find it a very tight fit getting the collets started. One the thread catches, everything is fine, but I usually have to give them a couple light thumps with my fist to get them to catch. But for the price, I am very happy overall ...
When you say integrated D1-4, does than mean your chuck does not have the front mount bolts to tweak concentricity & re-tighten the way Stefan did on his self-machined back plate? If so, how accurate is your collet taper to the lathe spindle axis? I have a Bison 5C D1-4 & its within 0.001", but 3X the cost. If I had to buy again I would get a Set-Tru style (or whatever the clones call their system).
wallacesaan
I took mine apart and did a debur on the internal pieces...also on each of the colletts. This made a nice difference in using it. :-)
Peter Thannhauser
Correct. Mine is a solid block with the D taper cut into it and cannot be adjusted. I just laid a tenths indicator on it and got 6-8 tenths on the taper. Pretty much the same with a 5/8" carbide endmill clamped up as well.
Not all bad for 300 Canadian clams. :-)
I looked but could not find the brand of the chuck. I found some on Amazon that look similar...anyone know which one it might be?
really enjoyed the teardown and evaluation.
your acumen for milling astounds me , very interesting . someone asked me the significence of the equation of 1/2x28 by 3/4 16th i thought it was to do with some kind of milled threading ?
Nice review Stefan. CDCO in the US sells it for $169.00. I bought one to use as a starting point for an adjustable collet nose for my Tormach lathe. The quality was identical to what you showed but mine had the typical dirty Chinese grease. by the way, I am no tool and die maker either.
ATB, Robin
Thanks Robin :)
I like the fact that you also don't shy away from buying, using and improving cheap tooling, even as you run a bunch of very nice machines.
“Typical dirty Chinese grease” Do you ever get the feeling they are toying with us? What is the cost of clean grease with $1/hour labor? pennies! You can be sure the quality of machine work done for the Chinese military is equal to the best we have.
Thanks, Robin, but note that a quick check shows freight seems to be about 15 pct up to about $2000 where it becomes free. Still, the freight is peanuts vs dealing with defective crap. I got three consecutive Bluetooth keyboards from Amazon early this year. Somebody must have been selling rejects.
I just received from CDCO a 5C collet chuck. It is nothing like what Stefan shows in this video. First of all it's a 3 pinion chuck, not 2. Second, the two separate halves are not ground or finished. There is a large bevel at the joint where the 2 halves meet. After inspecting the chuck internals I found that the bevel gear and pinion gear are not hardened or machined. The casting is horrible. The material has many pits and is very rough. All of the internal surfaces that were machined look like whatever tool they used was worn out. Like Stefan said it looked like a beaver chewed it up. Worst off all, The corners of the bevel gear have missing teeth. I don't see how I would have much luck applying any torque to tighten a Collet. The only good thing about this Chuck is there is a bearing between the bevel gear and the front housing. I don't know how important it is but it seems to work nice. I am returning this chuck and have one on order from LMS. After speaking to them i'm pretty sure I'm going to get something similar to Stefan's. I got my fingers crossed!
My lathe has a D1-3 mount, unfortunately. But otherwise it’s very good. That mount makes buying a lot of things more difficult. Larger chucks such as 8” 3 jaw and 10” 4 jaw no longer come in D1-3.
So when I saw a Grizzly South Bend 5C with d1-3 mount for $174 including shipping, I bought it. Their other versions are much more expensive. I suppose they priced it down because almost no one has D1-3. For once I lucked out. It’s very good. I also take these things apart when I buy them, and this is clean in pretty much every way. It’s smooth operating, and pretty accurate. It’s about 0.0004” out at the collet, and about 0.0006” at 2”, which is about as far out as I use collets, unsupported at the end.
I didn’t think about the screw idea to center it, or I might have bought one without a D-13 and bought one plain and a separate D1-3 back and did what you did. It’s a good idea. I wonder if I could have gotten it closer if I did.
nice video, by the way have you thought about a battery powered rattle gun, that hole looks about 3/8 OR 1/2 inch, a ready made size for these tools, and gets it done in seconds flat, then you only use the hand tool for tightening the work piece.
Tks Stefan, I finally know how it works 👍
Nicely done review, thanks.
Very interesting, I have a smaller lathe than you I think (115mm center height), but the same spindle bore size. I was told a 5C chuck would be too big and hang out too far for such a small spindle. I still want one however, been thinking of a chinese ER32 collet chuck instead, but maybe a 5C is better, I don't know....
Great video, Stefan!
Dear Stefan, at 16:19 I see you are using a soft-hammer which I have the same for more than 20 years. 10 ago I (manage) to destroyed the one side soft plastic. When i try to get a replacement here in my country they was look at me that I came from another planet and that was not possible to find anything like that. Please if you have any infos about it please let me know. BTW I am planing to buy one of this 5C collet chuck, and I see, that this what you have, looks pretty good. I know that you may don't want to say from where you get it, but can you tell as how much you pay for that....
Thanks in Advance
By any chance does the casting on your lathe's headstock have sufficient material to look into installing larger bearings so you could increase the spindle bore so you could go to a 5C or another collet type in the spindle itself?. The one thing that bothers me about these and I have used them is the part in the collet is probably farther from the front bearing than the bearings on the spindle are apart. Nice review and it looks to be nicer than the ones I have seen personally. Part of this I suspect has to do with the expectations of the customers in Europe being higher than most customers in the US who frankly are more concerned with cost.
Mr Precision - does it again! :) May have to get one of those.
Haha, its almost like an illness ;)
Stefan, I liked it so much I had to buy one. I don't have cast-iron to make the backing plate. What would be the downside to using steel?
No downside, I just like to machine the cast iron more :)
cast iron have an evident advantage for damping vibrations, it's the main reason why all machine tool frames are cast iron castings and not steel castings
Well, that's it, I've got to have one now. The price on them always seemed suspect but if they're decent and save me chucking and indicating small stock in my four jaw I'm in.
So how so i get one of these decent cheap 5C chucks, and not one of the cheap cheap 5C chucks Clough42 got...??
Thanks for sharing this, nice one. These chuck back plates are sold here in the UK, my small lathe got the same system and i think i cannot really make them for the price they charge. Just google for Arc Eurotrade and look for the Sieg C6 backplates (no connection to these guys, just a happy customer) They also fit the Einhell IKD 400 and IKD550 lathes
Thank you as usual that was very good
For the money that is a great tool , Thanks man !
the bore for the pinion gears are drilled with a insert drill before the Turing ... CNC live tooling lathe. the surface aren't so beauty because the insert drill run without internal High pressure coolant and the chip rub in the surface
Stefan, thanks for sharing and taking the time to put this video together. It seems to me, that the chuck itself is more accurate than the collets themselves, is this correct? If so, how would you tighten that tolerance up?
Thanks!
AAR
He did mention that; I wonder though, if there's a way to make those cheap collets better. AAR
I dont think that there is a good way to improve the collets themself. But as said, that was a 3-26mm set in 1mm increments. It cost 180Eur - Thats 7,50 per collet. For that money, the precision they are able to deliver is rather impressive. Keep in mind that the indicator shows 2/1000mm per division ;)
Thanks Stefan. I couldn't come up with any idea that was modestly simple, as there are two concentric surfaces to attend to, and either one or both might be off. As you said, for the money they're better than fine. Thanks again!
AAR
Looks like you made a great buy. Thanks for the info ------- enjoyed
Fascinating, thanks for sharing.
It would be nice to see a video on your magnetic lathe chuck as I have never seen one before or even heard of one before you mentioned it.
As usual, many thanks for an edifying tutorial.
I dont have a video at the moment featuring it, but I have a few photos and some text on it here:
gtwr.de/rant/magneticchuck.html
Many thanks Stefan, I look forward to your next video whatever it may hold.
Regards.
Rich, UK.
Stephan, I too just got one of these. But my chuck came with a back plate and the correct one too. Difference is I don't have the balls to take mine apart! Possibly some day. The machining is like gunsmith work. Yours is excellent too. We love our inexpensive tools don't we, not cheap, inexpensive! Thank you for your video this one was especially good.
One day I will take something apart and never get it back together ;)
Thank you for the kind words!