I remember watching this for the first time in the 90s when I was young, I was so excited "WOAH THIS IS SOOO COOOOL!!" and DS9 still has some of the best space battles in sci-fi.
@@user-xw5qm6qp2y Yes B5 and there epic battles! I watched it as a kid in the 90s and I was just blew away from the action and the story. One of the best Episodes of B5 (for me) is "Severed Dreams".
Not exactly. For some reason everyone decided to fight without shields. In that respect, even capital ships have the same, possibly worse odds of survival than the peregrine or runabout.
Always felt the Sitak and the Majestic exemplified the bravery and duty of Starfleet. Two old workhouses outclassed by everything the enemy has, yet still giving their all to ensure the mission was completed. And those three flanking Birds of Prey. The best of the Klingons.
"They outnumber us two to one..." "There's an old saying: Fortune favours the protagonists. Well. I guess they're about to find out." "But at what cost! Sir, most of our ships don't even have a name!" "We'll make up their names and ship classes when we list the casualties for the article at Memory Alpha, Ensign. We're going in."
I would have loved these battles a lot more if the ships had any shields to speak of. However, my understanding was due to budget reasons, it was either more ships or shields.
@@tails0420ify That's fair. More ships really painted the danger of each large scale battle. When I first saw these fights, my only question was: Why doesn't anyone have their shields up? Never could get over this.
Like any battle on screen, you are usually not treated to the pre-battle manoeuvres where the fleets jostle for position, attempting to outflank each other and gain advantage. I could well imagine that even in the infinite void of space a large fleet could bring another to battle, particularly when it’s obvious where the other fleet is trying to get to.
They actually spent months on this, they minimized the effects in other episodes to have the time and budget to produce the battle sequences for the dominion war. That’s why between major battles, they had a wedding, a casino heist, and found time to play a baseball game in the middle of the largest war in Starfleet history. The producers were pretty genius, and the show was so character driven they could get away with it.
Have to say that the battle sequence of operation return was expectedly done with initially attempt at tactical brilliant and ingenuity from both sides, before it devolved into a free for all and no holds barred melee fight. Before the klingons arrival enabled the allies to turn the dominions flank and allow them to win the day as they rolled up the enemy line like a carpet.
Back when you would get 26 episodes a year and not have to wait 3 years between seasons. We were spoilt getting 20 eps of Star Trek Prodigy drop in one day last week.
The klingons should have attacked from behind. Would have force the Dominion to turn half the fleet to face it. While still having star fleet on the other side.
One of the greatest sci-fi fleet battles ever made. Up there with RotJ’s Battle of Endor. It has narrative coherence, the tactical manoeuvres are consistent with the strategic purpose of getting beyond the Dominion fleet to DS9. The individual ships are given little stories, moments to shine amid the carnage. Instead of today’s nonsense from Star Wars or modern trek where the director seems to think that filling the screen with ships is the way to go, when instead it is silly, impossible to follow and just, terrible as a way to depict a battle.
The Charge of the Light Brigade Alfred, Lord Tennyson 1809 -1892 Half a league, half a league, Half a league onward, All in the valley of Death Rode the six hundred. "Forward, the Light Brigade! Charge for the guns!" he said: Into the valley of Death Rode the six hundred. "Forward, the Light Brigade!" Was there a man dismay’d? Not tho’ the soldier knew Some one had blunder’d: Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why, Theirs but to do and die: Into the valley of Death Rode the six hundred. Cannon to right of them, Cannon to left of them, Cannon in front of them Volley’d and thunder’d; Storm’d at with shot and shell, Boldly they rode and well, Into the jaws of Death, Into the mouth of Hell Rode the six hundred. Flash’d all their sabres bare, Flash’d as they turn’d in air Sabring the gunners there, Charging an army, while All the world wonder’d: Plunged in the battery-smoke Right thro’ the line they broke; Cossack and Russian Reel’d from the sabre-stroke Shatter’d and sunder’d. Then they rode back, but not Not the six hundred. Cannon to right of them, Cannon to left of them, Cannon behind them Volley’d and thunder’d; Storm’d at with shot and shell, While horse and hero fell, They that had fought so well Came thro’ the jaws of Death, Back from the mouth of Hell, All that was left of them, Left of six hundred. When can their glory fade? O the wild charge they made! All the world wonder’d. Honor the charge they made! Honor the Light Brigade, Noble six hundred!
@@g.k.1669 Yeah, sadly it is true. I had high hopes for discovery but it turned into a poorly written love fest for a certain demographic and the show turned to shit as a function of that. poorly written, poorly acted, directed embarrassment.
Sisko: "fortune favors the bold" Me: "fortune favors the bald" Sisko: "i sad, fortune favors the bold!" Me: "That´s what she said" ps.: DS9 is one of the best Star Trek shows ever. Even to this day, over 20 years later, i´m stil not 100% sure, was this friendly fire? and what actually destroyed the 2nd Bird of Prey? 4:07
A lot better ! Haven ' t seen it but Discovery seem wrong in so many ways with a Star fleet ship with golden hull and totally different klingons ! I do realise it supposed to be in the far future but the design deviate so much it just does not fit into the Star trek universe . It could have been just called Discovery in like a totally separate series / universe . Sorry i over ranting 🙄 My bad . DS9 is a 90 ' s favorite and quite impressive modelwork . And Star trek TNG was also quite impressive for a TV show even if the morals could be preachy and no - one in the future listens to rock music apparently
One of the stupidest design features is having the “red alert” lights continuously flash. You know Star Fleet I think the crew understands they are going into battle after a few minutes, so you can turn the flashing lights off
1:50 - From Alfred Lord Tennyson's "Charge of the Light Brigade", written during the Crimean War when the British cavalry rushed the Russian positions at Sevastopol.
Why is it no one can do solid space battles anymore... We had DS9 BSG and Star Wars in 90s and 00s. Then as tech got better the space battles got worse... Serenity, Rogue 1 and The expanse were the last good ones I remember.
Something I thought was wierd after the finally of picard was in all scenes in the or ds9 the galaxy was a huge lumbering ship in its menuverability. Yet data gets ahold of it and its like a freaking defiant in how it can mve and shoot. Im sure other helmsmen woupd have some sort of skill to do near the same if let off their orders leash.
I just love how in 3:37 the Galaxy Wing have finished its sweep under Cardassian-Dominion line, but then at 4:07 one of the Galaxies decided one sweep is not enough and go back to kicking some more ass!
why is the "Admiral'" of this engagement in a destroyer (at best) class ship? Cisco should be commanding from the flag ship which should be some dreadnaught in the rear guard.....
He was commanding on the flagship. The defiant was designed to be a warship from the start. The galaxy ships were design for long range exploration, modified for war.
@@stratfordbaby "The phrase is believed to have originated from Terence, a Roman playwright. One of the proverbial phrases in Act 1 of his play Phormio (161 BC) is fortes fortuna adiuvat, or “fortune favors the strong.” The poet Virgil was the first to use the exact phrase audentes Fortuna iuvat (“fortune favors the bold”)."
I love DS9. Best star trek show still. However the people writing these battle scenes had no idea of combat. If all the starfleet ships would have kept going straight more would have gotten through. You can see several going wrong way. Also why was sisko the only captain to realize the ships were to close?
Couldn't they just have warped around the enemy fleet??? i mean, space HAS 3 dimensions and the battle preparations and acutal fighting took just as much time as it would have taken to plot and take a different course... but yeah i get that the space battles were the best thing about ds9.
Why is it that all these space SIFI shows do not use real tactics? Just go watch some Eve online and figure it out. no stand-off weapons, no electronic warfare, no capitals or carriers,
As cool as this was, it was the Dominion War which really inflated the number of starships compared to what existed prior. If Starfleet had had hundreds of ships to spare, the relative handful of ships lost at Wolf 359 would have sucked, but not have stretched Starfleet as thin as the next episodes were indicating.
Well Star Trek Enterprise was the last good show. In my opinion even one of the best, because of the good character development and the ongoing story lines.
All those ships, yet think of all the times the Enterprise is 'the only ship within range' of an incident.😂 But then again the producers of DS9 had to do something to try increase the poor ratings. But having huge ships zipping around like TIE Fighters was just laughable.
I remember watching this for the first time in the 90s when I was young, I was so excited "WOAH THIS IS SOOO COOOOL!!" and DS9 still has some of the best space battles in sci-fi.
I definitely will take this over the current Star Trek releases.
You should check out seasons 3 and 4 of babylon 5. They were out atyhesame time and competed for viewers...
Agreed!!
@@user-xw5qm6qp2y Yes B5 and there epic battles! I watched it as a kid in the 90s and I was just blew away from the action and the story.
One of the best Episodes of B5 (for me) is "Severed Dreams".
The part where the two Galaxy Class ships swooped in and obliterated the Galor Class ship was a freaking amazing start to the battle.
The Miranda class starship. Take punches to the face for The Federation since 2260.
This is how you do it.
Every ships a character in the story and through them you see the drama unfold.
Imagine being in one of those fighters and knowing you have seconds remaining of life. It's a ridiculous suicide assignment.
You accept you are dead already. You just make sure to take out more of them, before you go down.
Not exactly. For some reason everyone decided to fight without shields. In that respect, even capital ships have the same, possibly worse odds of survival than the peregrine or runabout.
those fighters are automated in the 24th century
Always felt the Sitak and the Majestic exemplified the bravery and duty of Starfleet. Two old workhouses outclassed by everything the enemy has, yet still giving their all to ensure the mission was completed.
And those three flanking Birds of Prey. The best of the Klingons.
SEATAC. Seattle-Tacoma.
@@stratfordbaby Check USS Sitak at Memory Alpha. CZcams won't allow direct link.
Such a bummer they blazed out. But EPIC
Ah, the Klingon "Ride of the Rohirrim - moment" ...
Garak's face when the Klingons arrive 😂
"They outnumber us two to one..."
"There's an old saying: Fortune favours the protagonists. Well. I guess they're about to find out."
"But at what cost! Sir, most of our ships don't even have a name!"
"We'll make up their names and ship classes when we list the casualties for the article at Memory Alpha, Ensign. We're going in."
Amazing... I'm stealing this.
Audentes fortunae juvat
When the Klingon bird of prey blows up another when helping the defiant to breakthrough
This is a space battle. And the sequence has aged very well. I just wish there were longer combat sequences.
I would have loved these battles a lot more if the ships had any shields to speak of. However, my understanding was due to budget reasons, it was either more ships or shields.
I'd rather see the ships than shield blurs everywhere. But that's just me.
@@tails0420ify That's fair. More ships really painted the danger of each large scale battle.
When I first saw these fights, my only question was: Why doesn't anyone have their shields up?
Never could get over this.
It was a style choice, if there had been shield flares everytime a ship was hit, it would have had to have a seizure warning.
@@philipsnyder1687 lol
It was also a technical thing. They couldn't do shields for a hundred ships ether.
Interesting how no-one trusts Garak but Sisko trusts him to be in a key role on the Defiant.
Bird of Preys were the way to go. You can run the ship with a crew of like 20 and it can rival any Jem'Hadar attack ship.
You can run a jem hadar ship on that too, and Jemmies are disposable
@@Belisaur Yea but flying a Jem'Hadar ship is harder with no damn viewscreen.
Very nice quality upload. Thanks!
4:05 - The Klingon ships were shooting themselves!
Classic Klingon all the time fighting each other lol
Certainly looked like friendly fire took out that first BoP.
They get a little excited sometimes.
The first one looks like it, I guess it does happen in the heat of battle. It could also have been a polaron torpedo from one of the battlecruisers
LOL I never noticed that the Klingons fly in from sun position like the Red Baron.
Star Trek had an amazing ability to make you believe that ships couldn’t get past each other easily, in the infinite void of space.
Like any battle on screen, you are usually not treated to the pre-battle manoeuvres where the fleets jostle for position, attempting to outflank each other and gain advantage. I could well imagine that even in the infinite void of space a large fleet could bring another to battle, particularly when it’s obvious where the other fleet is trying to get to.
The fact the attack fighters weren’t using full power torpedoes is an insult to their crews.
DS9 version of SW Battle of Endor.
Lol. Lucas had a far larger budget!
I’d like to point out this was a TV series where SFX department had just weeks to do everything each ep. And the score was Oscar level.
They actually spent months on this, they minimized the effects in other episodes to have the time and budget to produce the battle sequences for the dominion war. That’s why between major battles, they had a wedding, a casino heist, and found time to play a baseball game in the middle of the largest war in Starfleet history. The producers were pretty genius, and the show was so character driven they could get away with it.
Have to say that the battle sequence of operation return was expectedly done with initially attempt at tactical brilliant and ingenuity from both sides, before it devolved into a free for all and no holds barred melee fight. Before the klingons arrival enabled the allies to turn the dominions flank and allow them to win the day as they rolled up the enemy line like a carpet.
Back when you would get 26 episodes a year and not have to wait 3 years between seasons. We were spoilt getting 20 eps of Star Trek Prodigy drop in one day last week.
attack fighters were so fucked XD
the moment you her Klingon Disrupters, you realize its a very different battle
If you want to survive more than 8 seconds of screen time, don't escort the Defiant.
Nu trek certainly doesn’t come near as bad ass as this, I miss this show
Why are there even Miranda in the fleet? Those ships are so easy to destroy. Feel sorry for the crew that serve on those vessels
Poor Will... Everyone is firing at him... LOL
Good thing the Enterprise has plot armor then :P
The klingons should have attacked from behind. Would have force the Dominion to turn half the fleet to face it. While still having star fleet on the other side.
One of the greatest sci-fi fleet battles ever made. Up there with RotJ’s Battle of Endor.
It has narrative coherence, the tactical manoeuvres are consistent with the strategic purpose of getting beyond the Dominion fleet to DS9.
The individual ships are given little stories, moments to shine amid the carnage.
Instead of today’s nonsense from Star Wars or modern trek where the director seems to think that filling the screen with ships is the way to go, when instead it is silly, impossible to follow and just, terrible as a way to depict a battle.
2:42 - shields suck on a Miranda class. One shot and the saucer section is toast. 😮
Fix them then: 6 Lines of code... 👽👽😎🙃🥳🦍
It’s an old hull, only so much you can do to upgrade and retool it.
Would suggest that the power input was so massive that the shields immediately overloaded, as if they weren't there.
By this point in history, the Miranda class was already half a century or more old. It wasn't built for modern combat.
@@terryroraus Miranda had only upgraded phasers and was 100 years old, but Excelsior class had new shields, phasers and quantum torpedos.
This was quality sci-fi, they don't make shows like this any more.
The Charge of the Light Brigade
Alfred, Lord Tennyson
1809 -1892
Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns!" he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Forward, the Light Brigade!"
Was there a man dismay’d?
Not tho’ the soldier knew
Some one had blunder’d:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley’d and thunder’d;
Storm’d at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.
Flash’d all their sabres bare,
Flash’d as they turn’d in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wonder’d:
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right thro’ the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reel’d from the sabre-stroke
Shatter’d and sunder’d.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volley’d and thunder’d;
Storm’d at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell,
They that had fought so well
Came thro’ the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.
When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wonder’d.
Honor the charge they made!
Honor the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!
Who's Still Listening To This In 2036 ?
Shout Out !
Spoiler Alert !
We Survived Asteroid Apophis In 2029 And Again In 2036 !
Deep Space Nine was some of the best Star Trek ever made. Totally contrasts with what they are making now.
All of the previous ones do.
@@g.k.1669 Yeah, sadly it is true. I had high hopes for discovery but it turned into a poorly written love fest for a certain demographic and the show turned to shit as a function of that. poorly written, poorly acted, directed embarrassment.
Sisko: "fortune favors the bold"
Me: "fortune favors the bald"
Sisko: "i sad, fortune favors the bold!"
Me: "That´s what she said"
ps.: DS9 is one of the best Star Trek shows ever. Even to this day, over 20 years later, i´m stil not 100% sure, was this friendly fire? and what actually destroyed the 2nd Bird of Prey? 4:07
still better than Discovery
A lot better ! Haven ' t seen it but Discovery seem wrong in so many ways with a Star fleet ship with golden hull and totally different klingons ! I do realise it supposed to be in the far future but the design deviate so much it just does not fit into the Star trek universe .
It could have been just called Discovery in like a totally separate series / universe . Sorry i over ranting 🙄 My bad . DS9 is a 90 ' s favorite and quite impressive modelwork . And Star trek TNG was also quite impressive for a TV show even if the morals could be preachy and no - one in the future listens to rock music apparently
One of the stupidest design features is having the “red alert” lights continuously flash. You know Star Fleet I think the crew understands they are going into battle after a few minutes, so you can turn the flashing lights off
1:50 - From Alfred Lord Tennyson's "Charge of the Light Brigade", written during the Crimean War when the British cavalry rushed the Russian positions at Sevastopol.
3:57 To this day I luv when O'Brien says that
2:38 That ablative Miranda armor, tho.
There is a big gap of firepower difference between the Kilngon ships and the rest
Why is it no one can do solid space battles anymore... We had DS9 BSG and Star Wars in 90s and 00s. Then as tech got better the space battles got worse...
Serenity, Rogue 1 and The expanse were the last good ones I remember.
Something I thought was wierd after the finally of picard was in all scenes in the or ds9 the galaxy was a huge lumbering ship in its menuverability. Yet data gets ahold of it and its like a freaking defiant in how it can mve and shoot. Im sure other helmsmen woupd have some sort of skill to do near the same if let off their orders leash.
Dying with the Cardashians
❤
You're in this battle, but you're assigned to a Miranda. Maybe 10% of them survived but certainly some of them did. Are you on one of them?
"Then its a fair fight" - Ship Master, Halo 3
Funny enough the writers are always thinking 2-dimensional in SciFi... you can just fly/warp around the enemy armada
No match for DS9, wooops :o
I just love how in 3:37 the Galaxy Wing have finished its sweep under Cardassian-Dominion line, but then at 4:07 one of the Galaxies decided one sweep is not enough and go back to kicking some more ass!
It probably the venture which was one of the galaxy classes seen in other episodes. The other I think was the Magellan
Two Ferengi saved the Alpha quadrant.
why is the "Admiral'" of this engagement in a destroyer (at best) class ship? Cisco should be commanding from the flag ship which should be some dreadnaught in the rear guard.....
He was commanding on the flagship. The defiant was designed to be a warship from the start. The galaxy ships were design for long range exploration, modified for war.
They spent so much of the budget of FX they had to make the next three “bottle episodes”.
SITAK is a Vulcan person… in my mind
With all that "space", you'd figure they'd just go around the blockade.
the blockade has warp engines, too
So this guy was in charge of a 600 ship fleet? Not a 4 or 5 start admiral?
Who won ?
The guy who said "Fortune favors the bold" died, ya know, right?
Pliny the Elder.
@@stratfordbaby "The phrase is believed to have originated from Terence, a Roman playwright. One of the proverbial phrases in Act 1 of his play Phormio (161 BC) is fortes fortuna adiuvat, or “fortune favors the strong.” The poet Virgil was the first to use the exact phrase audentes Fortuna iuvat (“fortune favors the bold”)."
@@stratfordbaby Right. Nobody seems to remember that :)
I would have used the red matter and full warp😂
Who is this „Will“ and why is everybody shooting at him?
I love DS9. Best star trek show still. However the people writing these battle scenes had no idea of combat. If all the starfleet ships would have kept going straight more would have gotten through. You can see several going wrong way. Also why was sisko the only captain to realize the ships were to close?
Why was a junior Captain running things instead of one of the many many admirals?
Couldn't they just have warped around the enemy fleet??? i mean, space HAS 3 dimensions and the battle preparations and acutal fighting took just as much time as it would have taken to plot and take a different course... but yeah i get that the space battles were the best thing about ds9.
Nothing like 100 year old Mirandas as cannon fodder.
And one of those ships, the Reliant, was intimidating in The Wrath of Khan.
why is a captain in command of 600 starship fleet lmao
I mean why not just fly around them. Its space.
Rip Wormhole. You will be missed. Wormhole had aids.
Man, this is so hard to watch 👀 and all these models that were destroyed that i could've hanged in my bedroom 😔 😟 🙁
Why is it that all these space SIFI shows do not use real tactics? Just go watch some Eve online and figure it out. no stand-off weapons, no electronic warfare, no capitals or carriers,
4:3 ≠ 16:9 🤦
Kipling
As cool as this was, it was the Dominion War which really inflated the number of starships compared to what existed prior.
If Starfleet had had hundreds of ships to spare, the relative handful of ships lost at Wolf 359 would have sucked, but not have stretched Starfleet as thin as the next episodes were indicating.
God to think this was only 20 ish years ago. Everything since then is just total garbage.
2O Year ' s really Sh ~ ;
Well Star Trek Enterprise was the last good show. In my opinion even one of the best, because of the good character development and the ongoing story lines.
@@TotalyRandomUsername THANK YOU YES ;
This was stupid. Starfleet ship's getting destroyed with one shot. They have shields.daft.
All those ships, yet think of all the times the Enterprise is 'the only ship within range' of an incident.😂 But then again the producers of DS9 had to do something to try increase the poor ratings. But having huge ships zipping around like TIE Fighters was just laughable.
Dumb