RSR RAW: 2018 Honda Civic Type R vs Seat Leon Cupra R - Spa Francorchamps
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- Two of the best FWD hot hatches ever made, two RSRSpa instructors behind the wheel and an iconic F1 track as the background!
Earlier this year we bought our Honda Civic Type-Rs knowing that the Japanese hot hatch has proven its worth on the Nurburgring, shuttering the FWD lap record. However that doesn't mean we aren't always searching for interesting cars to add in our fleet. The Leon Cupra R Limited Edition is certainly the best fast Seat we've ever driven. Both cars featuring sharp handling, big brakes, 2.0 turbocharged engines and six speed manual transmissions with the Seat a bit slower on paper, 306 hp compared to the Civic's 320 hp. However we found them actually performing quite similar on track. In the end it was the Honda that slightly edged out the Seat, with a better balanced chassis and slightly superior brakes. But you don't have to take our word for it, enjoy the raw onboard laps and decide for yourself!
More details on how you can drive Spa-Francorchamps in our Honda Civic Type-R, here: bit.ly/2HXeXgo
That seat clearly pulls harder than the civic, I wasn't expecting that. Really great video I enjoyed it a lot.
Mcufre the Seat always is driving in slipstream of the Honda, so yes he pulls harder than the Civic.
But you can see how fast he loses speed when going out of slipstream! 😉
And in corners you can see the difference between the grip Level of both cars!
The Civic has a lot more grip in corners!
And better tyres...
Normaly all Cupra Rs come on Cup2 semislicks, so if the cupra had the better tyre on, then the corner performance is not so good in this comparision.
Ok i stopped the video and looked closer, sorry Cupra on Conti and Type on Cup2. Then the cornering perfrormance of the cupra is ok :-)
@@UCh5Y7Xd0i3UUWRpAjFs " normally the cupras come on cup 2:s 😂 what are you on about. No the dont. We got 32 exampels in sweden an none of them came with cup 2:s
I bet the seat has more hp then the Civic. Modern Vag turbos tend to push a little more then they admit. I have seen a few dyno results from stock gtis. About ~20hp more then they officaly should push.
All car manufacturers must follow this trend. Cheper road tax
99Lezard99 all the VAG turbos from factory or stock are good but not big or with much improvement, actually the limit of PSI not overpass the 18, from factory the Type R has 23. It is much bigger than any VAG turbo.
mine goes to 23 (gti clubsport)
Then you don't know this VAG platform very well, several tuners take the stock IHI IS38 turbo to 410hp so that is plenty of headroom for a stock turbo. PSI is just the pressure also, what counts is at what airflow can they make good pressure...
you could have speak little bit more after testing such great car on such great track..
in the end as professional driver all you can say is "cupra faster, honda harder"...
Quite a difference between drivers... Good that you changed.
Also, what are the tyres used? Looks like the Cupra had Continental SC 5P? If so, quite some of the inferior handling can be because of those tyres, on a set of Cup 2 as is available optionally, it would be a lot closer to the Civic on SC6, as the Seat is a bit of a budget Golf Clubsport S...
I'm glad there's someone else that enjoys the details as much as me.
They do definitely look like the 5P as stated; it would have been nice to see SC6 to have a properly even test between the cars. But I can't see that making a huge difference, atleast not as much the difference between the SC6 and Cup 2's would be which is another story all together. As someone who has driven two normal Cupras (290hp ST variants), one with 5P's and the other with Cup 2's I can say the difference is remarkable and would have definitely made this test a less fair comparison.
Kurt Phillips I agree that both on the same tyre is the best comparison. The SC6 is a very expensive tyre though, as they wear quickly. I would personally put on a set of PS4S on this Cupra as a road and occasional track car.
I also drive the 290ST, but it's a road car so up(down)graded to lightweight 18" with PSS, they make a very noticeable improvement to the handling and damping quality on less than perfect surfaces...
onehorsepower Recent prices I've seen for the SC6 are a fair chunk cheaper than the PS4S, which makes them much more tempting than in the past because as you said they do wear fast. I find comfort mode rides more than smooth enough for me but it does get annoying how laggy the screen is when you try to change modes quickly, so 18's and leaving it in sport is probably a good way to go come to think of it. Did you have Cup 2's on your 19's before switching?
It's such a shame they don't do the PS4S in 18" sizes. I ended up with Cup 2's on my MK3 Mondeo because although the PS4 set I had on previously were great all round they just didn't have quite the amount of dry grip I was after... In hindsight I would have probably gone for PSS but at the time I believed Michelin's marketing in which they stated something akin to PSS only having a tenth or two advantage on the PS4 over a the course of a whole lap. Where now we know the true successor of the PSS is the PS4S and in reality the PSS has enough of a noticeable improvement in the dry to have made them my first choice if I'd known.
After getting over the cost of my current tyre set, to be quite honest, I don't think I can ever downgrade. Yes Cup 2's are expensive but my god are they phenomenal! They seem to transform any car they're put on. They have such a strange, yet amazing balance of great feedback and comfort. Also providing the grip levels of proper semi slicks while also being quiet, safe in the wet and providing good wear life is astounding. 100% my favourite tyre bar none.
Have you done any other mods to your car? I've installed the 034 Motorsport billet torque mount insert to reduce wheel hop (which it has), but it hasn't eliminated it as much as I'd like.
Kurt Phillips I had PS4 before and switched to PSS and there is a big difference in how they handle. The PS4 is high grip and safe but boring, the PSS is dynamic with much more feedback and eager to change direction. Perhaps more so than the PS4S but can't fully compare. No Cup 2 experience, I don't do trackdays and our car is our family car, so cold, wet slow driving days, I want to have above average grip also when my wife drives...
On 18", we have rough surface, very bumpy and rutted roads and then (light) 18" is really superior. Subjectively comfort moves up a notch on the DCC settings, while damping/control also does. So comfort in Sport mode is similar as it was in comfort mode on 19", while damping/control in Sport is as in Cupra before, just so much more agreeable. Also the Comfort and Cupra mode are much more usable, Comfort is less wallowy, and Cupra perfectly liveable comfort wise with excellent body control.
I wasn't fond of the 034 insert, it bended and became less effective. I now have the Powerflex track insert and that works better but there is some more NVH which could be a problem on a DSG where you cannot modulate the rpm on slow manoeuvres.
Quite some mods now, handling wise additionally 25mm rear arb, superpro alloy wishbone kit with more caster/camber and now toe out front, rear max toe in and least neg camber within factory settings. Forge short shift and clutch stop. Engine stage 1.5 380hp/450Nm, basically stage 2 hardware but boost peak only increased .2bar for better response (not too boosty) and nice linear pull to redline. Lastly, sound generator switched off and Remus axle back exhaust...
Seat is good cars fast and amazing.thank you cupra r i love Seat.bravo belle réussite je la veux cette voiture
So seat modified the vehicle because it was being compared to the Type R...got it.
Honda will Seat any day on a Track
Depends on what track. Long corners and straights. The cupra r will pull away
Still running stock/OEM brake pads?
Instructor in the silver helmet doesn't seem as experienced as the other.
Facts:
1) Both cars weight exactly the same 1450 kgs.
2) TYPE-R produces 320 ps and Seat 310 ps (Actually dynos measure seat Cupras at 316-326 ps.)
Conclusions
EITHER
1) Type -r does not produce 320ps.
It is well known that same weight and same power figures, should produce almost the same acceleration graph (speed /time)
Observation one: The difference of the acceleration between the above cars as we see it in the video cannot be produced with same power to weight ration (We assume that seat produces 326 ps instead of 310 as Seat states)
Observation two: For people who are familiar with cars, its well known that such big acceleration differences can not be obtained with only 10 more ps. Even if Seat produces 330 ps (10 more than the civic and 20 more than what the official Seat figures state) the afforementioned difference can not be achieved.
Final conclusion: 1)The SPECIAL EDITION CUPRAS (799 cars in total) produce close to 350 ps so as to make such a difference.
OR
2) The above seat has an ecu reflash which is kept as a secret from the journalist.
vag providing tuned test cars, cheating as usual...
Like the guy in video said, cupra is limited edition
The main difference between these cars is manual transmission Honda VS DSG on Seat Leon.
Notice that even Golf Gti comparison manual and Dsg ....The Dsg equiped is far faster than the manual model.
+Nikos S. the leon cupra r in this video is a model manual, cacho tolay
Ken Healy that is interesting, I have the same car and it goes extremely well... Do you have your graphs posted somewhere, if so link please? Thanks
Leon is The best my next leon will be a Cupra R
tus ganas xD
Seat ftw, o dear!!! Lol
What racing is this
Όντως, δεν το περίμενα ούτε γω να πηγαίνει έτσι το βαγκίτικο σε σχέση με το Εργαλείο. Βέβαια, πότε έβγαλαν οι βαγκίτες στ' αλήθεια τ' άλογα που ανακοίνωναν, για να τα βγάλουν και τώρα. Αυτό όμως, είναι κάτι, στο οποίο δεν μπορεί να τους κατηγορήσει κανείς.
Πάμε όμως, σε κείνο, για το οποίο μπορούν να κατηγορηθούν:
Αίσθηση, πληροφόρηση, οδηγοκεντρικότητα, λοκώς έξω / μούρη μέσα και γενικά επιθετική συμπεριφορά.
Κώστα, αν σου έλεγε κάποιος να το... μαθηματικοποιήσεις το... kakeyoro του ΤαπεRιού, πόσο % από δαύτο θα έδινες στο βαγκίτικο; Ένα 80% ίσως; Ή πιο κάτω;
I hope the 2019 GTI TCR will be as good as the Seat leon cupra R
Nice video! But what battles?. 😂
to be honest we are just trying to stay together, lift , waiting , etc... ;-)
OHHH i see it. no throttle response. You havent got the type r in R mode. I can tell. I have one lol you are way too slow out of the corners
Ωραίο το σκηνικό....
The Honda butt hurt is brilliant.
Translation in spain
What a crap job doing poor comparison due to crap driving. This is just obviously a cupra commercial, nothing else.
They arent even going flat out in the type r. the SEAT cant keep up i know that for a fact
to be honest we are just trying to stay together, lift , waiting , etc... ;-)
Um.... you know that the cupra has a faster time on the hockenheim ring for example? And on the other tracks the covic is faster yes, but not with huge margins. And the cupra is faster in a straight line. Therw is drag races on yt. I think the civic should do better with al that extra downforce
jajaja si lo que tu digas fanboy de honda.