Chinese 7.62mm Sten Gun
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2024
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During World War Two, Canada supplied some 73,000 Sten guns (made by the Long Branch arsenal) to Chinese Nationalist forces in an effort to help them fight the Japanese. These Stens were standard MkII pattern guns, chambered for the 9x19mm Parabellum cartridge. However, many of these were eventually converted to 7.62mm Tokarev ammunition, especially after the victory of the Communist forces over the Nationalists. The conversion involved a new barrel and new magazine and magazine well. The 7.62mm barrels were typically longer than the original ones, and the magazine of choice was that of the PPS-43. Some were done by installed a magazine adapter into the original magazine well, and some (like this one) were done by cutting off the original magazine well and replacing it with a new one. In addition, some Sten guns were made domestically in China, both in 9mm and 7.62mm. The 7.62mm Tokarev cartridge was popular both from Russian pistols and submachine guns and also from China's long military use of the dimensionally-identical 7.63mm Mauser cartridge in C96 pistols.
Many thanks to the Royal Armouries for allowing me to film and disassemble this interesting submachine gun! The NFC collection there - perhaps the best military small arms collection in Western Europe - is available by appointment to researchers:
royalarmouries.org/research/n...
You can browse the various Armouries collections online here:
royalarmouries.org/collection/
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
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My mind immediately went to full-size 7,62, that would have been a sight
My brain did the exact same thing lol
Me too, and I thought a fully automatic straight blow back 7.62 X 39 was violently Chinese, if only it was during the period with all the warlords and infighting. You know, fully automatic c96 broomhandles and all that.
same here, I was wondering how many rounds it would take to shake the gun apart.
Indeed, I was very concerned about an open bolt smg chambered in 7.62x39
My god, imagine that! It would have hideous recoil in such a light gun! Wowzers
So a Chinese conversion of a British gun, which was made in Canada, in a Russian caliber. Supplied as mutual aid to China, then used against the people who made it and captured in Korea?
@John Smith I mean you're probably not wrong.
@John Smith still would say Eh and aboot
Mister Worldwide
These re-chambered weapons were mainly used by militia.
Ahh globalism; making sure you have no idea who is screwing you over.
I just love Stens. Everyone used them. British, Poles, Germans, every single resistance, communists, capitalists, Aussie biker gangs.
Don't forget the Star Wars verssion. It couldn''t hit the broad side of a Wookie to save it's life. It shoots around the target making cool lighting and neat sound effects.; Pew pew Pew!
As Michelangelo told the Pope about the three Christs in his Last supper; "It works mate!".
@@bongobrandy6297 Actually that was the Sterling.
And the yakuza too.
@@bongobrandy6297 the stormtrooper blaster is a sterling smg
"It's not that complicated"
Sten.
"Look man, it's not complicated. We have all the facts, this is a clear cut case."- Sten Pool
Metal tube goes "pew pew".
@@kabob0077 Just sprinkle some crack on it, open and shut case.
The moment you outcheap the chinese
@@tibbar20111987 back in the 70s you could buy parts kits to make your own Sten. You got all the parts including a "cut" tube, reciever demil. You just needed to find a new tube and do a little minor welding. Can't recall the exact price but it was cheap, maybe $24.95 or less. They also provided you with a paper pattern which you would wrap around the tube to indicate where the cuts and welds would be located.
Automatically my brain just thought this was going to be a Sten with a 30rd AK mag hanging off the side Lol
While I want a tok Stein, id take one that takes ak mags to.....scary to shoot im sure
Imagine with a 10 round mag for 7.62x54r
The next evolution: Chinese STEN look-alike clone from Khyber pass.
Khyber Pass .410 break action sten.
Alex Carrara it’s going to be bolt action too.
Bolt action, bullpup Sten from Kyber Pass.
@@LOL-zu1zr when you fire you gotta shout "Daka daka daka!"
No kidding. The Khyber pass fabricators have copied just about everything
"54 7,62" is Type 54, 7,62 caliber, the Chinese Tokarev ammo designation;
25-2 is the Factory/Depot designation which did the conversion; and 748 is the Serial number.
Since these were converted by several facilities, there are variations.
Straight mag-well versions still with Canadian imprints also exist, with modified straight mags.( saw one years ago in friend's collection.
Conversion of 7,9 Brens to 7,62x39 was a post-Korean war job...for use by Min Bin ( peoples militia)...late 50s- 1960s. A lot of 7,9 weaponry was used in Korea, alongside Russian supplied 7,62x54R and 7,62x25 guns...7,62x39 was only adopted by China in 1956 ( Type 56) under the Soviet Technical Aid Program.
Doc AV
Great aswer! Do you have a sourse of this information? I would love to learn more about this firearm
Speaking of which, Ian should do an April fool's series called "rotten weapons" covering bad conversions of good weapons.
This is great
but this is good conversion, one could argue it made the gun better.
This is a very good idea.
Or try to explain how any Ork shoota from Warhammer 40.000 works
He would just sit there for a minute silently, staring at the gun, and then sigh and say "I have no clue how it works"
Shoota falls apart from a single touch
Credits roll: "Archmagos Ian, circa 999.M40"
@@flawlesstheory5111 as todd howard would say " it just works!" 😂😂
That welding and finishing.
Well, there is some weldings, but no finishing.
The repurposed stench gun. I bet the stock would freeze to the chinese soldiers faces during the wintertime.
"Master Yi Wan, how do I make PPS-43 even simpler and cheaper to make?"
"Listen closely, Wai Di Mir. You take STEN..."
"..."
"...you rechamber it in 7.62 x 25..."
"..."
"...and you make it accept PPS-43 mags"
oh, _that_ 7.62mm. i'm a moron for thinking otherwise I guess..
Most people think of 7.62x39, I myself was like "I mean it's probably not in 39, but given some of the shit I've seen it might just be" then I saw the mag and was relieved to see it wasn't.
Yes not by 39 but 25 ;)
Imagine if it wasn't x25 or x39, but 7.62x54...
@@kabob0077 A lot of people probably thought it's in 7.62 NATO
@@gohunt001-5 Dear God...
Didn't know the case heads for 9mm para and 7.62 Tokarev were nearly identical until now.
Yeah, because the 9mm evolved from the 30 Luger, which is virtually the same dimensionally as the 7.62x25. Not much new under the sun, plus there was no need for the Sovs to reinvent the wheel
@@troy9477 7.62x25 Tokarev is almost a copy of 7.63x25 Mauser C96 so 7.62x25 Tokarev and 9x19para are similar. In Russia we have a lot of PPSh-41 in 9x19para cause 9x19para is four times cheaper than 7.62 Tokarev.
@Alexander Yes. You can buy army surplus AKM (original 7.62x39 with a new semi-automatic trigger) and SKS if you have a license for rifled weapon or you can buy army surplus AKM and SKS in .366 (they have a new barrel 9.5x39 Paradox) if you have a license for smoothbore weapon.
They're very close. Tok is .393 inch, the Luger is .394
They are both grandchildren of 7.65mm Borchardt, via 7.63mm Mauser and 7.65mm Parabellum.
The length of the case varied between rounds but not it's diameter and headsize.
Actually, the bolt was slightly modified in the 7.62 conversions....the underside of the bolt was machined to ride over the wider feed lips of the PPS-43 mag. A 7.62 bolt will work in a 9mm gun, but an unmodified 9mm bolt wont function/feed in a 7.62 gun. You can see it 4:45 and 4:49 …..It's more noticeable when next to an unmodified 9mm bolt for reference
i imagine that this was probably a quite effective submachine gun, like its Soviet cousins: 7.62x25 is a pretty remarkable little round, and with an extended barrel this probably could punch through a helmet pretty easy. almost like a proto-PDW of sorts, I love it.
Well as Tallahassee from Zombieland.Would say “Don’t shoot me with my own gun!”
Now we know the real reason for the Korean war. So the Chinese could return their guns to Canadians. Geo-politics is such a wonderful thing.
And the Canadian will say "I am sorry" for the trouble of this whole process.
Angry pipe became big angry pipe
Omg. Remembering all those commando comic books from my childhood
I remember those. A least one solider would carry a sten and there would also be a big guy carrying a Bren probably called something like Tiny lol
I remember the Tommy gun outnumbering the Sten, usually wielded by a lantern jawed commando.
@@WorldCupWillie so true haha... 🤣.
@@jic1 My life is complete.
@@jic1 how are they still going?
I want this.
Say, maybe Henry's cousin in Hong Kong can pull some strings.
Over 500 yards?
@@howardchambers9679 500码必中！
@@9HoleReviews The hands of Mao will rise from the depths of hell to guide your shot if you purge enough rightists, Nationalists and anti-revolutionaries!
I love the Royal Armouries, I live nearby and I've been visiting since I was a nipper, I had no idea they had all these cool firearms tucked away behind closed doors!
I live close by, have been three times. It's such a great museum.
Same bro, used to do foil fencing every Friday when i was a kid. Such a great place.
@Alexander erm yes we can... check your sources please.
Awesome for hump day morning while I'm drinking coffee before going out to the heat of tucson to save people whose air conditioners are broken thanks buddy
The barrel length being much longer on this gun is maybe because they repurposed PPS-43 barrels and didn't want to waste perfectly good barrels they already had or were already making?
Exactly what I was thinking.
why not manafacture a longer barrel?
@@cosmophobia1917 Because then they'd have to manufacture a longer barrel.
@@cosmophobia1917 because that requires new tooling, while using an existing pps barrel is simple.
Could it also have been related to needing a longer impulse during recoil to achieve reliable cycling with the original bolt and spring?
As a Chinese Canadian this is very interesting
Perhaps that middle marking is the "Factory" designation or unit code the particular batch of stens were attached to?
That's my suspicion as well.
Thought it was 'Day - Month'.
In one line - 54-7.62 25- 05 - "54" - mfg year, "7.62x25" - caliber, 05 - plant number
Interesting, never even heard of these, guess its better than the original?, because of the better magazines? Propably...
Better ammo for SMGs, a longer barrel, so this could be better if the barrel was held in place correctly.
@@lostalone9320 Yeah, but some extra velocity doesn't hurt at 200yards.
7.62x25 is too long for handguns though.
@Mr Brightside the Velocity in truth wouldn't hurt, in least getting it the 75 to the hundred yard range with some Effectiveness left. But you are correct with those sites hitting anything at 200 all you're doing is spraying and praying.
@Mr Brightside most smgs at the time could shoot that far they were made this way because there was a necessity for something that could hose bullets at people. Remember assault rifles weren't a thing for the majority of soldiers and 200 yards is pretty close most bolt action rifles are boringly accurate at that distance and machine guns were unwieldy and suited to suppression.
You're not really gonna shoot anything at 200m with a sten gun
That title almost gave me heart attack.
Why?
@@arrowtt3364 I initially assumed it was 7.62x39 straight blowback when I read the title.
Arrow TT33 because big sten go boom boom
@@arrowtt3364 It suggested it was a full power 7.62 rifle cartridge conversion!
@John Smith because there can't be "too much of dakka".
Hi Ian, If I wasn’t mistaken, actually the mark of 54-7.62 on the mag catcher means that this gun uses type 54 7.62mm submachine gun(Chinese copy of soviet PPS43) magazine instead of 1954 as the year of conversion
Imagine that with the drum mag of PPSH 41
i know it doesn't take ppsh 41 mags and takes pps 43 ones instead, but just imagine
A drum mag on the side just like MP18
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz That's my thought too, you'd have to hold it gangster just to shoot it
Good luck finding PPSH-41 Drum mags that work.
Colin Masterson after 42 year they almost all work properly
You'd probably have to side mount the iron sights so the magazine wouldn't block your sight picture and overall it would look terrifying, both of the people using it and the enemy going against it.
Oh thank God, I thought it was gonna be a 7.62 x *51* Sten and I wanted to see how the world's biggest hand grenade looked like.
Do you one better - the Sten in 7.62x54mmR.
A 50. Call stengun
@@Jasonth131 for when you play a RPG game and the devs forget to put a damage upgrade cap on your sten gun.
There was a 7,62x51mm Sterling.
Tbf i was expecting a 7.62x39
I imagine that the longer barrel also helped with muzzle flash and noise - important when no one's wearing earpro and fighting at night.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine heck, with those magazines and higher BC round, they were probably better weapons. Not that 'better SMG than the Sten Mk. II' was a particularly high bar to meet
Ian, your videos are the highlight of my subscriptions, keep them coming
This causes me emotional and physical distress
I was exited !
Why?
I read “7.62mm Sten” and assumed Sten in 7.62x54
@@GetWarded That would be fun
@@GetWarded most people think 7.62x39, but sure
love these chinese conversions, they all have a good story behind them
I live in Long Branch and have walked the old armory grounds where those guns were made. Who knew what happened to them? Thanks for filling in a really unique bit of Long Branch history.
Actually seen this in the royal armoury fantastic weapon history keep up the good work Ian👍
I am as much a fan of 7.62x25 Tok cartridge as you are of French firearms, so this was a marvelous video for me to watch. I've heard of these, seen the pics, but never seen a video until now!
(and I do have parts kits for almost every firearm developed for the "Thirty Tok"... and my EDCs is a brace of TTCs in twin shoulder holsters)
Every time Ian's visited my home town I haven't been there, would love to say how much I like his work in person one day.
The barrel length can be a result of splitting a barrel of another gun in two making it this length for PPSten... PPSh41 had the 10,6 inch barrels and it was a result of taking a Mosin rifle barrel and cutting it in half.... looks like the same happened here :)
The PPS43 used a 10.5 inch barrel. China was making new one at this same time. So reusing those barrels was a cost saver.
Pretty cool. I like the little extra length on the barrel.
A simple yet effective conversion, I could imagine the 7.62mm tokarev round would have given it some decent stopping power. So glad Ian has gotten round to doing this one. :)
The Andrew Salmon series "To the Last Round" and "Scortched Earth, Black Snow" contain some interesting context to these guns. Apparently the Chinese intervention had a lot ammunition supply problems, because they had stockpiles of small arms from indigenous sources, France, the UK, US, Canada the Soviet Union and Japan. According to the book the army used by China had been about to invade Taiwan when Mao realized that the Korean War was going south and redirected them to intervene in Korea instead. The planned invasion of Taiwan was going to use surrendered Nationalist forces as their front line so that they could purge the army of politically unreliable soldiers and play on the loyalty of the Taiwanese defenders. As a result the army that entered North Korea used a particularly large amount of western foreign aid weapons in addition to Communist manufactured weapons. The Chinese supply lines were primarily done by people literally carrying the supplies on their backs through snow covered mountain passes, being covered by US Air force fighter-bombers, up until the Russian Air force intervened. The most notable tact taken to solve the ammo compatibility issues was to produce and issue large quantities of grenades. Chinese produced concussion grenades were not very effective though, so they didn't catch a break on that either.
When are you showing us a bullpup Kyber Pass Sten, Ian?
It’s not kyber pass, but look up his video on the viper smg. It’s a bullpup, full auto only, simplified, one handed sten gun.
Each time I`m thinking that I`ve seen everything, Ian uploads such a video
I am always surprised at how few companys have made comercial conversions kits for 7.62x25. seems it would be an easy sell to offer a barrell, spring, mag drop in conversion for 1911 platforms or glocks or even highpoint. a highpoint carbine in 7.62 would be handy and fun
When I saw "7.62mm Sten Gun" my silly ass thought it would be 7.62x39, not 7.62mm Tokarev. 😂😂😂
That would be pretty freak’n awesome
Despite what a kludge this looks to be; the magazines are probably an improvement!
I think you should consider doing regular gun reviews as well. You take it upon yourself to learn everything there is to know about the motivation, history, and purpose of every gun you review, and I admire and respect that. Your views on guns are very well rounded, and I think you would be able to succeed in the vastly flooded genre of gun reviews. Something to consider :)
Please do more videos about custom or modified weapens, especially caliber swap weapons such as 7.62x39 Bren or 9mm PPSH-41. Love your channel. Thanks.
"... It's not all that complicated"
Ofcourse it isn't, it's a _Sten Gun!_ xD
For a little bit i thought it was a 7.62x51 conversion. That would be a monstrosity.
I was wondering when these guns would come up for years. Very cool.
This, and the 7.62x39mm Chinese Bren are two of my favourite forgotten weapons
Im guessing that the numbers on the mag-well (25-05) would be the month and day that the conversation took place, so pretty much the 25th of May, 1954
was thinking the same thing. felt about right sadly my first though had the date flipped aka day 5 of month 25 so I drooped it.
Because chinese don't write date like that. They would wrote 5-25, not the other way around
Would love to see this on the range 👍
I've fired a Bren converted to 7.62x54R by the expedient of running a 7.62x54R reamer into the original .303 British chamber.
Accuracy was fine but the fired cases had an interesting double shoulder, almost invariably split just below the neck.
Great upgrade to sten, would love to build one some time.
I noticed that the magazine is double feed rather than the single feed of the regular magazine. Have they done any modification of the barrel to facilitate the double feed or is it possible to just stick a double feed mag in a sten and it works?
A Sten is literally just a pipe with a bolt in it, so it will probably fire anything as long as there is enough space for the cartridge to feed. There's nothing in the way.
@@Stoney3K So there is no need for something to guide the cartridges in to the chamber (feedramps etc.) eventhough the cartridges now feed offset from the barrel? Or is it that the cartridges are close enough to allow the tip of the bullet to guide them in the chamber?
@@mathiaslindgren9544 I do believe there's a feedramp inside but it's already tapered the right way for double feed magazines to work. And the top of the magazine feed lips is already pretty close to the center of the bolt face so there's not a lot of guiding you have to do.
Soviets: Burp gun
Chinese: Cough gun
When you pulled that mag out idk why but that sound was satisfying as hell. I wanna get more guns so badly. I miss them. Had to sell them for my family :/
Fascinating. Come to think of it, there are a heck of a lot of adaptations of the Sten design from across the world! Including this one and more famous ones like the Owen gun and the Mp 3008, there must be at least 18 countries that have done it.
Ah side loading guns, my favourite
Side loading guns (exept the FG-42) give me headache
@@pussyslayer2295 But how can you even into fun with boring bottom loading normalcy?
I'm a simple man, I see a video by Ian I hit watch and like
I like your videos, i learned a lot about gun history
I had no idea this even existed. The Joy of "Forgotten Weapons"!
Gun Jesus: sten gun
My AK guy brain: angry tube
I wonder if this conversion resolves one of the major Stengun issues: the awful magazine design.
In the literature about his gun, this appears to be the pet peeve, even more than the famous weak recoil-spring leading to regular accidental discharges. In official weapons manuals it's always recommended to keep the magazines squeaky clean and to never-ever, while loading the magazine, pushing a cartridge between the feeding lips since they may bend, nor to give the magazine a slap after being loaded into the gun; all in order to avoid damage to the extremely fragile feeding lips.
Fitting a new magazine well, as well as using the sturdier PPS 43 magazines, may have resolved at least one of the major Sten weaknesses.
For a STEN, that is a sexy configuration. With the longer barrel and the higher pressure SMG loads this is nice little set up. Sure, still a STEN, but an improved one.
Do you still have to mind your fingers?
25-05 sounds like a day and month xD. The long barrel 7,62x25 conversion was also present on french MAT-49 smg's.
I suspect the "05" could mean it was converted in Year 5 of the Chinese Revolution.
makes sense. Take your like, you filthy heathen.
Then it is 1917.
@@hongyangjiang4976 I meant of Mao's Revolution, obviously.
@@arrowtt3364 It's unlikely. The communist does not use the this kind of numbering of years. They tend to use the common era year, so the marking of 54 means 1954, which makes more sense
This weapon could be something issued to Chinese volunteers Amy division 25 regiment05 from my understanding. It might be modified by the division machinery
I guarantee you that someone in the Middle East has one of these strapped to their back.
I feel like Ian is working from home and just doing a forgotten Weapons on all of his personal collection of guns until quarantine is done
He is, but he's got a buffer to work through. There's a significant lag between when video is shot, and A video airs.
Hello, I really enjoy your programs. Regarding the codes on the Chinese Sten that you cannot identify, might they be either factory codes or lot numbers? Just my two cents. Keep up the good work. Chas.
Maybe that 25-05 is the desegnation of the gun? like how 56-2 is the sidefolding AK variant.
Or 25 of May that year
Now I know why the Sten gun in BO3 is called the "Bootlegger", because it's the Chinese Bootleg Sten
That sound when he pulled the mag out was 10/10
I spent a day at the Royal Armouries collection, I saw loads, but it’s a shame how much more is not available for us mere mortals to see.
I already thought 7.62x39😂😂😂😂
Sten-74U
The poor shoulder...
You may joke, but Sterling experimented with a Sterling/Patchett SMG (product-improved STEN) chambered in 7.62x51 0_o
@John Smith Firing procedure:
Aim
Shoot
*Relocate dislocated shoulder*
*Repair collar bone*
*Locate teeth*
*Locate bolt and find a replacement end cap*
Aim
shoot.
PM63 chambered in 7.62x51
I wonder if this abomination will have a higher rate of fire than the 'vanilla' sten given more powder in the round.
More powder but less mass, which means 9mil has slighly more recoil, so rate of fire should be reduced
I've seen a few replicas made from sten kits. Pretty easy conversion to do if you have a spare MK.2 or even a MK.3 kit. Barrels could be made pretty easily, tig weld PPS-43 magwell, and no bolt work required apart from the semi-auto mods for legality. The 25-05 marking could be an arsenal refurbish mark?
I used them at HMCS Cornwallis, late 60's along with an FN
"Chinese Sten gun"--a phrase synonymous with quality.
Quality enough to fight the Korean War despite massive deficiencies in heavy equipment.
could just be they had 10" Tokarev barrel blanks and that's what they used
Brilliant video, fascinating weapon
When the Palmach made Stens the biggest problem was brass for the ammunition. So they bought and imported Lipstick cases. Though barrels are the most complicated, maybe the 10 1/2 inch was what was set up for manufactuer?
Im disappointed, I was hoping for a 7.62 rifle round chambered sten gun.
I don't know if Ian is wearing gloves for the virus or for handling the gun 😂
I looooove the 7.62 tokarev round, I managed to get some recently even with the beer flu and going to go to the range to shoot some today :D I wish it was out if this though tbh
Thank you , Ian .
After finding the Sten, the Chinese learned forever how to make cheap things
Is it my imagination or are the comments on this significantly more idiotic than usual for FW?
Lots of yes.
might it just be that arriving this early means the garbage hasn't been slid out of sight yet?
@@mergemechanismToo right, every one knows Aussie Bikers preferred Owen' s
wow bro you're so smart and cool
It's all this staying at home killing brain cells
Anyone else here a fan of Stuart Slade’s alternative history series where the CAPSTEN a gun like this is a standard issue of the allies?
I kinda like the converted mag paddle latch they added! Think I prefer it to the original STEN button latch! Very interesting.
Only time Chinese were lazy enough to not steal and recreate 😂
That's a pretty stupid comment.
that's a terrible take ujan
@@StromBugSlayer Let us hope it's a reasonably intelligent person making a silly comment thoughtlessly instead of an idiot making a stupid one.
If it's the later, you can expect an inbox full of idiocy lol.
@@iemozzomei Well, to be fair, that pretty much is what they do.
I think the longer barrel was for better cycling of the bolt with that smaller caliber. Not just accuracy
If you want to make your angry tube a little bit angrier. Honestly thought it was gonna be a full size 7.62x39, that would’ve been a real step up.
That's the biggest twist in Arms history
Luckily I live fairly close to the Royal Armouries and have been. I would highly recommend it quite possibly the best quality armoury museum I've been to, up there with the IWM in London.
I was given one of these conversions with stampings that are very close to that one..
The bolt was modified for the double feed PPSH mag, the Sten is double stack, single feed
At 4:53 the actually accounted for the bolt using pps 43 magazines, the standard sten bolts taper more too the top, I only say incase anyone is willing to recreate the sten in tokarev.