Lee Metford MkI: Great Britain's First Magazine Rifle

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  • čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
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    The British went into the 1880s with plans to adopt the Enfield-Martini as its new rifle, a single shot Martini-action rifle with essentially a sidesaddle of ready-access cartridges on the side of the receiver. It would be chambered for a new .402 caliber black powder cartridge. However, the Small Arms Committee begin looking into the possibility of a magazine rifle instead, and trials of 40+ different systems found three worth considering: a Lee rifle with a box magazine, a Lee rifle with a Bethel Burton magazine, and the Owen Jones rifle. As these trials were concluding, the discovery of smokeless powder threw a wrench in the plans.
    After study of the Swiss 7.5x53.5mm cartridge, the British opted to develop a small bore .30 caliber round themselves, which would be the .303 British. This round, originally loaded with compressed black powder before the use of cordite, rendered the plans for the .402 caliber Enfield Martini obsolete. What would have been a justifiable territorial and reserve rifle alongside a .402 magazine rifle was now an orphan. With the new rifle in .303 caliber, a .402 single shot Martini was just an added logistical overhead. Instead, existing Martini rifles would eventually be converted to .303 British.
    At any rate, the Lee rifle and magazine were chosen as ideal, and in 1888 a batch was made for field trials across the British Empire. Widely positive reports led to its formal adoption and the beginning of production in 1889 as the Magazine Rifle MkI - later retroactively renamed the Lee Metford MkI and colloquially known as the Long Lee. The example we have today has two very rare original features; an intact manual safety and Lewes pattern sights. Both of these would be quickly removed or replaced in service, and a Mk I* and MkII pattern followed shortly after the adoption of the MkI.
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Komentáře • 588

  • @Dreska_
    @Dreska_ Před 3 lety +214

    "We don't trust you not to waste ammunition.
    So anyway heres your volley sight & as an added bonus we got the velocity wrong"

    • @d4ngru5h83
      @d4ngru5h83 Před 3 lety +6

      Lol

    • @genericpersonx333
      @genericpersonx333 Před 3 lety +19

      I can only imagine how embarrassing it was to some British officers when they learned that their supposedly superior engineers were sighting their rifles less accurately than the French were in 1867 with blackpowder guns that had an arc like a howitzer!

    • @myparceltape1169
      @myparceltape1169 Před 3 lety +7

      @@genericpersonx333 It is exactly what you need on your new rifles.
      There is no need for everyone to have a telescope. Although you will not see the enemy, who is 3 miles away, fall over after the volley, be assured that they will.

  • @eizol568
    @eizol568 Před 3 lety +720

    A story about Enfield Armoury in WW2. Before my Uncle became a soldier in WW2, he worked at the armoury (parents lived in Enfield). One day during the Blitz, his Mother heard a massive explosion. My Uncle came home with dust all over him and a cigarette in his mouth and he said “Home early Mom, factory got bombed”. Got to love the British spirit 😀

    • @mjfan653
      @mjfan653 Před 3 lety +76

      this reads like a start to a monty python sketch.
      quess they had met with the british as well

    • @xXPurpleGriffinXx
      @xXPurpleGriffinXx Před 3 lety +64

      @@mjfan653 Monty Python is British bro

    • @Yellowman7
      @Yellowman7 Před 3 lety +36

      "mum"

    • @dotdashdotdash
      @dotdashdotdash Před 3 lety +17

      Wouldn’t that have been “Mum”?

    • @dotdashdotdash
      @dotdashdotdash Před 3 lety +3

      Nils Pochat “Britons”.

  • @rautavaara9194
    @rautavaara9194 Před 3 lety +335

    Now I'm looking forward to seeing a video on the .402 Martini-Enfield with a hopper magazine.

    • @NOPEFROG
      @NOPEFROG Před 3 lety +10

      I wanna see the hopper Enfield or a reproduction thereof

    • @mauricestainsby196
      @mauricestainsby196 Před 3 lety +7

      Weren’t they all rebarreled to 577/450 and became mk4 MH?

    • @rautavaara9194
      @rautavaara9194 Před 3 lety +29

      @@mauricestainsby196 According to the internet, it's a unicorn gun, but some examples should exist. Considering this is Forgotten Weapons, seems within the realm of possibility.

    • @derp-construction3341
      @derp-construction3341 Před 3 lety +5

      Indeed, @@rautavaara9194. My Google-fu was not up to the task of finding any images.

    • @ScottKenny1978
      @ScottKenny1978 Před 3 lety +1

      @RDMrusher that was a Mauser, iirc

  • @Elmarby
    @Elmarby Před 3 lety +164

    I love that little detail about the upper handguard.
    The most frightening phrase to any military equipment designer must surely be "And then the troops got their hands on it."

    • @somersethuscarl2938
      @somersethuscarl2938 Před 3 lety +34

      As a designer of miltary kit my father would be part of the team sent out to troop trails just to watch what happened so the kit could go back and be "squaddie proofed". There is nothing like a squaddie to find intresting and unthought of (by designers) ways to break stuff.

    • @51WCDodge
      @51WCDodge Před 3 lety +19

      @@somersethuscarl2938 Squaddies consider it a matter of pride, and relives boredom:-)

    • @JW...-oj5iw
      @JW...-oj5iw Před 3 lety +2

      Trying to decipher the comments and replies gets to be headache inducing. Wish people would take a few moments to read what they've written to see if it needs adjustment. Hard to believe "information" when it is presented with so many mis-written or misplaced words. Yeah yeah yeah, I know. Dyslexia. English not original language.

    • @somersethuscarl2938
      @somersethuscarl2938 Před 3 lety

      @@JW...-oj5iw You guessed it I am dyslexic. What are you confused by and I will try to correct it.

    • @somersethuscarl2938
      @somersethuscarl2938 Před 3 lety

      @@JW...-oj5iw fired up the PC and run it all though spellchecking. All correct now

  • @baronofhell2277
    @baronofhell2277 Před 3 lety +226

    "Hello, Mr. Lee"
    "Hello, Mr. Ford"
    *Lee met Ford*

  • @dak4465
    @dak4465 Před 3 lety +188

    These rifles are absolutely gorgeous.

    • @Taistelukalkkuna
      @Taistelukalkkuna Před 3 lety +10

      You are right. Never seen one with dark stock, but it suits it well,

    • @dak4465
      @dak4465 Před 3 lety +3

      @@Taistelukalkkuna it really does

    • @gagool3434
      @gagool3434 Před 3 lety +4

      Indeed, as a French I assume I'm more interested by British rifles than French or German ones

    • @Poolboy001
      @Poolboy001 Před 3 lety +1

      How? It's just another bolt action military rifle. They all look the same.

    • @roguegen5536
      @roguegen5536 Před 3 lety +1

      I agree. That's a sexy rifle.

  • @BoisegangGaming
    @BoisegangGaming Před 3 lety +303

    British Weapons: How you'd think they work:
    Mark 1- 2 - 3 etc
    How they actually work
    Mark 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1* - 2 - Blimey, it's time to adopt a new gun

    • @51WCDodge
      @51WCDodge Před 3 lety +19

      The * means a minor modification , often in manufactuer. The Mk designation changes when a major redesign is carried out.

    • @BoisegangGaming
      @BoisegangGaming Před 3 lety +34

      @@51WCDodge I know. I was just making a joke.

    • @AsbestosMuffins
      @AsbestosMuffins Před 3 lety +25

      @@51WCDodge he's still not wrong, their naming convention was never particularly followed by their armorers

    • @51WCDodge
      @51WCDodge Před 3 lety +2

      @@AsbestosMuffins Oh I agree life was to short:-)

    • @51WCDodge
      @51WCDodge Před 3 lety +2

      @@BoisegangGaming Like the British nomaclature system then? :-) a lot o fpeople don't realise so it may help clarify.

  • @mrjockt
    @mrjockt Před 3 lety +155

    Amazingly enough the Lee Metford is still carried on ceremonial parades by Europe’s only remaining private “army”, the Athol Highlanders in Scotland.

    • @barryeaton8907
      @barryeaton8907 Před 3 lety +10

      Never knew that we had a private army in the UK, thanks. BTW it Atholl

    • @Jake_Steiner
      @Jake_Steiner Před 3 lety +12

      I was going to mention this! Unfortunately I think they've been permanently rendered useless as anything but large paperweights. As much as I complain about my life, I'm so very fortunate to be an American.

    • @Jake_Steiner
      @Jake_Steiner Před 3 lety +9

      @@peterclarke7240 that's not the point I'm getting at all, I am a collector. My comment pertains to the actual collector dollar value of the pieces in question. I'm not certain if you have anyone that collects historical firearms in your homeland, but as a historical firearms collector, that is the lense in through which I view these pieces of history. Although one of my great grandfathers was a Highlander in the First World War, I won't pretend to know anything of Scottish laws or of their firearms culture(if any even remains after Culloden and everything else).

    • @johnkelinske1449
      @johnkelinske1449 Před 3 lety +3

      @@Jake_Steiner They went through hell and soldiered well, what else could be asked of them?

    • @brianmoreira7578
      @brianmoreira7578 Před 3 lety

      THE SCOTTS!!!!

  • @john-paulsilke893
    @john-paulsilke893 Před 3 lety +23

    Fun fact. Back in the day, (1980’s) if you bought or mail ordered a lower grade Lee Enfield, (shooter grade or parts gun) you would occasionally get a Lee-Metford in Canada. $90-$150.

  • @hehe3301
    @hehe3301 Před 3 lety +71

    That smokeless powder thing really caused a boom in rifle design...

    • @ARandomCatOnAKeyboard
      @ARandomCatOnAKeyboard Před 3 lety +8

      nice one

    • @TheWolfsnack
      @TheWolfsnack Před 3 lety +9

      .....but that new fangled stuff will never catch on....

    • @hehe3301
      @hehe3301 Před 3 lety +5

      @@TheWolfsnack yeah, our black powder Martini-Henrey will never be outclassed...

    • @lordsummerisle87
      @lordsummerisle87 Před 3 lety +12

      It was no mere flash in the pan.

    • @Gameprojordan
      @Gameprojordan Před 9 měsíci

      Yes it made magazines actually viable

  • @SeptimusAugustusI
    @SeptimusAugustusI Před 3 lety +310

    I hope that “martini-henry is the best gun ever” fella lived through the first half of the 20th century to see how wrong he was :)

    • @AleK0451
      @AleK0451 Před 3 lety +2

      bruh

    • @demonprinces17
      @demonprinces17 Před 3 lety +45

      Him and his subordinates were around, just look for the dumb stuff leading to WW1

    • @51WCDodge
      @51WCDodge Před 3 lety +26

      A lot of those old rifles didn't die! Why waste a brick outhouse of an action? Rebarrel and you have everything from .22 Training rifles, I learnt to shoot on one, to a .410 shotgun though I have seen a 12 bore single barrel version.

    • @myinfoisgone3868
      @myinfoisgone3868 Před 3 lety +15

      I think he means the best gun ever in a way that it became the uncle of many great guns

    • @SeptimusAugustusI
      @SeptimusAugustusI Před 3 lety +15

      51WCDodge And that is why I’ve always envied you Americans, especially those of you who had an opportunity to learn to shoot from a very young age :)

  • @maxman1602
    @maxman1602 Před 3 lety +383

    Is this part of your next book, "From Brown Bess to SA80: British Military Rifles"?

    • @njones420
      @njones420 Před 3 lety +47

      Thorneycroft to SA80: British Bullpup Firearms, 1901 - 2020

    • @forcea1454
      @forcea1454 Před 3 lety +14

      The earliest rifle covered in detail in that book is the Thorneycroft rifle, which slightly post dates the Lee-Metford, and was designed in response to the lessons of the Boer War.

    • @frostedbutts4340
      @frostedbutts4340 Před 3 lety +27

      Brown Bess to SA80 sounds like a real downgrade to be honest

    • @forcea1454
      @forcea1454 Před 3 lety +8

      @@frostedbutts4340 Even the L85A1 when performing at it's absolute worst will get more rounds downrange, with greater accuracy, at a greater range in a minute than the Brown Bess. Admittedly it is a very low bar to improve upon, given the maximum rate of fire for the Brown Bess is between 3 and 6 rounds per minute, and it's effective range against point targets is just over 100 yards, but I imagine the L85A1 could fire at least 6 rounds before jamming.

    • @maxman1602
      @maxman1602 Před 3 lety +15

      @@frostedbutts4340 A Brown Bess never jams and can be used left handed.

  • @markrowland1366
    @markrowland1366 Před 3 lety +8

    Great to have you describe this important Lee, Metford. In ww2 New Zealand converted 1200 to light machine guns, each fitted with a Bren 20 shot magazine for home defence. We smile now but remember Britten had two German machine guns to guide their work on the Sten gun.

  • @williamsullivan9401
    @williamsullivan9401 Před 3 lety +40

    I see a copy of Johnson's "Rifles and Machine Guns" on the shelf. I have what is most likely a first edition, printed during WWII. My father picked up the book when he was in the Marine Corps during the war. He thought it would come in handy.

    • @brianmoreira7578
      @brianmoreira7578 Před 3 lety +7

      I love old stuff and books I'm particular. That book that he's a great insight into the thinking on especially machine guns of the time.
      I mean how else can we really understand how ppl thought and learn moving forward if not for those old books.
      Yours has some awesome history and it's really cool your Pop served in WW2.
      Anyway.

    • @williamsullivan9401
      @williamsullivan9401 Před 3 lety +8

      @@brianmoreira7578 He was sent in as a replacement rifleman during the Battle of Okinawa. He saw how bad the fighting would be in the invasion of japan, and always referred to Harry Truman as, "The man who saved my life." No regrets at all over the atomic bombs.

    • @WJS774
      @WJS774 Před 3 lety +4

      @@williamsullivan9401 Nobody who actually understands what the situation was back then does. As many US Marines as would have died in the invasion, far more Japanese would too, far more than died from the bombs. I have yet to meet anyone who can give a convincing argument as to why they should not have dropped them.

  • @MB-nn3jw
    @MB-nn3jw Před 3 lety +15

    That’s a Mk I. No star. With safety catch, clearing rod and steel butt. In very nice condition too. Holy cow, that’s rare these days. Nice find, Ian.

  • @frederik5991
    @frederik5991 Před 3 lety +124

    Makes sense why these rifles were so inaccurate in the second boer war if the sights was marked for "theoretical smokeless powder".

    • @51WCDodge
      @51WCDodge Před 3 lety +15

      That was also quality control at the factories, front sights lined up with a corkscrew.

    • @mjfan653
      @mjfan653 Před 3 lety +8

      @@iatsd makes sense. my first thought was how can you go off to war without first sighting in your rifle at the range? would undo any factory errors or theoretical load sightings... but I quess even a "common sense idea" has to start somewhere

    • @sh4dowchas3r
      @sh4dowchas3r Před 3 lety +6

      Wasn't it also the Metford rifling wore out much quicker than anticipated? Hence the switch to Enfield type rifling.

    • @51WCDodge
      @51WCDodge Před 3 lety +10

      @@sh4dowchas3r Metford was black powder rifling, as I remember particullay with Ballisite the first smokless powder used by the British there was also excessive throat wear in the chamber, and pressures blew barreles. A Committe, in best Britsh style, finnised Nobel's patents, and developed CORDITE. Enfeild then developed the rifiling to match. Balliste blanks were still used for greande launching, henc the reinforced barrelas on some Great War SMLE

    • @AGS363
      @AGS363 Před 3 lety

      @@iatsd Bah! A good Tommy only needs guts an a bayonet!

  • @badpossum440
    @badpossum440 Před 3 lety +8

    The word “speed” is certainly appropriate when describing the Lee-Enfield rifle but has reference to the co-developer of the arm rather than speed of operating the bolt. J.J Speed was an employee of Enfield Arsenal in England and developed the cutoff, 2-piece stock,and several other minor features of British Lee -Enfield rifles. The “Lee-Speed” marking appeared on some early long Lee rifles, and especially on copies intended for the commercial market.

  • @cean42
    @cean42 Před 3 lety +86

    This rifle is the second most sexiest thing that came out of great Britain , the first place is for Nigella Lawson.

  • @richardbruce8111
    @richardbruce8111 Před 3 lety +4

    Thanks so much IAN .Down here in NZ we had a whole bunch of early models with repeated upgrades to confuse. Sparkbrook models I have seen have square cross hatching/checking ,grip grooves, and recessed cutoff access, a lot of mixed "repairs" An odd claim by reputable old hill men is accurate long-range kills with volly sights, yeah incredible especially with differing .303 propellents!

  • @PendragonDaGreat
    @PendragonDaGreat Před 3 lety +8

    "This rifle is the best thing ever and the new competition isn't that good anyways"
    Fudd Lore from before the time of Elmer Fudd.

  • @johnmorgan1629
    @johnmorgan1629 Před 3 lety +11

    I love the smell of Cordite in the morning.

  • @billmccrackin8825
    @billmccrackin8825 Před 3 lety +3

    Thanks for a great presentation on the Lee-Medford Mk1.

  • @johnmorgan1629
    @johnmorgan1629 Před 3 lety +8

    Along comes Ian with yet another rifle, that if had the money would love to own. He costs me a fortune in fantasy arsenal guns.

  • @Activated_Complex
    @Activated_Complex Před 3 lety +3

    It’s remarkable how close they already had it to the versions that took the field as the best bolt-action service rifles ever made. The trigger, the bolt placement, the front locking lugs. Probably some rimlock issues with that single-feed magazine that were sorted out in the SMLE. Thanks for the video on this beauty.

  • @highpower3006
    @highpower3006 Před 3 lety +4

    They a beautifully made rifle and smooth operating. I have a 1903 Mk1* that I picked up a few years ago and I feel lucky to have it. It is almost impossible to find an unaltered Mk1 like the one in the video.

  • @lptomtom
    @lptomtom Před 3 lety +68

    Such an iconic rifle, and it's legal to own without a licence in my country, unlike the Lee-Enfield... shame it's so expensive though!

    • @yurisv7315
      @yurisv7315 Před 3 lety +5

      Which country is that? I might want to move to another.

    • @armholeeio
      @armholeeio Před 3 lety +8

      Anything before 1939 are in the obsolete fire arms list in the U.K. so can hold them without a license

    • @wiimotecactus3124
      @wiimotecactus3124 Před 3 lety +5

      @@yurisv7315 I know in america any non-automatic ww2 and older guns is legal to own without a license but it varies from state to state

    • @TheRockyRacoon92
      @TheRockyRacoon92 Před 3 lety +3

      Same legislation here, I saw one last year at a "militaria" event/market. The rifle was pristine, but expensive, and i had just bought a Swedish rolling block. Moreover, if you want to shoot it, 303 brass is easy to find ( especially compared to 12.7x44R for the Swedish rolling block ) . Hope I get the opportunity to buy one again.

    • @maxman1602
      @maxman1602 Před 3 lety +10

      @@wiimotecactus3124 Not quite. Anything before 1898 is considered antique and exempt from state and federal laws, but anything after that is subject to all firearm laws. Some states require licenses and registration, some only require the NICS background check.

  • @johnfisk811
    @johnfisk811 Před 3 lety +45

    Lewes is pronounced Lewis as in the town of Lewes. I actually like the Lewes sight. Thank you for the video of the Rifle Magazine Lee Metford MkI.

  • @samuelclayton4405
    @samuelclayton4405 Před 3 lety +1

    Thanks man. My Son and I have a #1 mk 4 Lee Enfield made by Savage Arms in 1942. Absolutely a beautiful rifle. We have taken big game with it.

    • @Ashcrash82
      @Ashcrash82 Před 3 lety +1

      No 4, Mk1...or No 4, Mk1* more likely. The naming system can be quite a load if gibberish at first.

  • @bethlaria812
    @bethlaria812 Před 3 lety

    Beautiful old rifle thx for another great vid Ian

  • @2sleeze
    @2sleeze Před 3 lety

    Ohh, we always enjoy the videos Ian. Thanks!

  • @kevinhendryx665
    @kevinhendryx665 Před 2 lety +1

    Excellent, informative video! Useful for some research I'm doing for a story involving these weapons. I only wish we'd seen some working of the bolt and the loading/firing processes.

  • @grhand82
    @grhand82 Před 3 lety

    Great video. I didn't understand at first that what I was looking was effectively using the 303 caliber. Once you started the close up shots of the rifle I noticed the design right away! I actually use a Mark II for deer hunting. I love my antique rifle! It runs so smooth and and takes a beating!

  • @deadlydeltox7323
    @deadlydeltox7323 Před 3 lety +4

    Yesterday I watched the old live action 'the legend of tarzan' and said "that gun seems a bit too high tech for the 1800s" and now this video is made, what a coincidence.

  • @garytucker8696
    @garytucker8696 Před 3 lety

    Thank you for sharing Sir.

  • @loupiscanis9449
    @loupiscanis9449 Před 3 lety

    Thank you , Ian .

  • @kenwheeler3637
    @kenwheeler3637 Před 3 lety

    That was quite the pleasure seeing that rifle in such an original configuration.

  • @morbidcurios
    @morbidcurios Před 3 lety

    Excellent Video! I can't wait till you talk about the Lee Metford Mk 1 *

  • @user-wf9rt3ds4r
    @user-wf9rt3ds4r Před 5 měsíci

    Thanks Ian first rifle i bought was SMLE south African railway police .last weapon i kept after sold my Mauser action rifle p14 Winchester lovely rifle . Eventually gave to a keen young hunter

  • @tegrin853
    @tegrin853 Před 3 lety +1

    A box magazine would turn the
    mad minute into the furious moment.

  • @DavidM-um2uk
    @DavidM-um2uk Před 3 lety

    Amazing piece of history!

  • @ristoalanko9281
    @ristoalanko9281 Před 3 lety +7

    "And then there were the changes..." The British Army specification for ALL equipment ( weapons, bikes, tanks, uniforms, whatever) is called "List of changes" or LoC.

  • @brendonbewersdorf986
    @brendonbewersdorf986 Před 3 lety

    I love all this bolt action stuff recently like the carcano videos and now the lee metford I'm looking forward to an eventual beaumont vitali and vetterli vitali video they are pretty cool guns using the vitali magazine system

  • @kevinoliver3083
    @kevinoliver3083 Před 5 měsíci

    Although the 1886 Lee-Remington rifles were supplied in .43 Spanish they were rebarrelled, by Enfield, to .402 before the competitive trials.

  • @gabbz4540
    @gabbz4540 Před 3 lety

    Thank you for satisfying my daily lust for gun knowledge

  • @wrxs1781
    @wrxs1781 Před 3 lety

    Well done, the Enfield history to myself is fascinating, I have a small collection.

  • @user-wf9rt3ds4r
    @user-wf9rt3ds4r Před 5 měsíci

    Thanks Ian used to be very much into weapons.owned various. 303 over years and Mausers .Hunted with both .Had a 1906 Bambata long 303. Best 303 was P14 Remington.Boer weapon was his own and besides the 303 bolt and falling block used byZAR boers there must of been a number among Botha Natal boers and Smuts Cape rebels being British colonies

  • @troy9477
    @troy9477 Před 3 lety +1

    Nice. Great condition. The archetype of the dynasty, one might say. Upon seeing the bayonet, my first thought is that it looked modern for its day. Not excessively long in an era when sword bayonets were common. It is about the same length as the early Garand bayonets (the early '03 Springield bayonets were longer- 16" blades i think- we hadn't wised up yet). The Brits do get a little confusing with the marks and stars, but at least they weren't reluctant to make improvements. I have a No. 4 Mk1, and i can see wgere it made a fine battle rifle- robust, reliable, simple and effective sights, smooth fast bolt action, and 10 round capacity. With surplus ammo of unknown pedigree, i was getting center hits on the 100 yard gong the first occasion i fired it. Great rifle. Nice to see the great grandpa in such good, unaltered condition. Great video as always. Thank you

  • @Pcm979
    @Pcm979 Před 3 lety +49

    Despite the spelling, Lewes is pronounced just like Lewis.

  • @randalldalton5475
    @randalldalton5475 Před 3 lety +1

    Beautiful!

  • @WB8BRA
    @WB8BRA Před 3 lety

    I have a British Enfield called the "Jungle Carbine." The barrel is shorter for jungle warfare. I got this Enfield in 1959 for 19 dollars. It came in box full of oil and stuff. What job to clean. It is a very fast bolt action rifle for sure. The main thing you must watch out for is loading the ammo. The rimes of the ammo have to be placed right or you cannot load the next round. Keep one rime ahead of the other to make sure you do not jam.

  • @kwongyeang
    @kwongyeang Před 3 lety

    You have to love those volley sights.
    INDIRECT FIRE !!

  • @DSlyde
    @DSlyde Před 3 lety +8

    I hope the future video discusses the reasons for ditching metford rifling. Polygonal rifling is sold (in part) today on the idea that it prolongs barrel life, but they had the opposite effect on the Lee-Metford. I'd love to know why

    • @jonathanferguson1211
      @jonathanferguson1211 Před 3 lety +8

      Simply, Victorian metallurgy.

    • @DSlyde
      @DSlyde Před 3 lety +3

      @@jonathanferguson1211 You'd be in the position to know, thanks!
      Interesting that it doesn't "scale" with metal "quality". Obviously theres a variety of factors that goes into barrel wear - hardness, toughness, temperature effects, etc and not every factor scales linearly, but I wonder what it is in this case. Throat erosion due to the inferior hot hardness maybe?

    • @DSlyde
      @DSlyde Před 3 lety +3

      @Wisty Boy modern polygonal rifling is also shallow so that doesnt answer the question.
      What the specific difference in material properties causes it is the question.

    • @stevenbaker8184
      @stevenbaker8184 Před 3 lety +1

      @@DSlyde it's a simple answer. The difference is the way the steel used in the two barrels are produced. Gun manufacturers and steel manufacturers didn't have the modern technology to adjust alloys for production. Old iron and steel deteriorated much faster. On top of that significant improvements in the heat treatment and hardening techniques in the modern era. Hence why old guns couldn't put anywhere near the amount of rounds down range. Think of the difference between the MG 34 barrels and the M60 barrels. Different production methods of the m60 increased barrel life significantly. Despite the m60 being design off the MG 34 and MG 42. Same principle applies to the Lee Metford and the Lee Enfield.

    • @jonathanferguson1211
      @jonathanferguson1211 Před 3 lety +2

      @Wisty Boy With respect, it wasn't shallow rifling, it was polygonal rifling.

  • @maxkronader5225
    @maxkronader5225 Před 3 lety +1

    Another great video!
    Once upon a time I thought I was pretty knowledgeable about firearms...then I started watching Forgotten Weapons.😀

  • @JamesThomas-gg6il
    @JamesThomas-gg6il Před 3 lety

    Omg youre not kidding about all the changes and markings being a nightmare. However skinnertons books help a whole lot. Still way more than i can even try to remember.

  • @Shrike200
    @Shrike200 Před 3 lety

    One of these is hanging on the wall at a relatives house in sunny South Africa. Deactivated though, very sadly. I'll be keen to see your followup on this and identify it in greater detail.

  • @Astroman1990
    @Astroman1990 Před 3 lety

    Great video!

  • @RobertoDonatti
    @RobertoDonatti Před 3 lety

    Outstanding!

  • @jeffjohansen4945
    @jeffjohansen4945 Před 3 lety

    I would enjoy an episode on the BSA martini international series of .22 target rifles.

  • @razorsedge487
    @razorsedge487 Před 3 lety +2

    Interesting Fact about the ammo the lee metford fired it fired black powder 303 that was shaped into a compressed cylinder with hole in the center and was loaded into the brass before the neck was formed. The velocity was 2100 feet per second so almost the same as early smokeless.

    • @51WCDodge
      @51WCDodge Před 3 lety +1

      When first used with smokless, Nobel's Ballisite the chambers melted and Metford rifleing tore out. The British Comitte for the Modifiaction of Ballasite. and some legal jiggery pokkery over patents, led to CORDITE. Enfeild developed a new rifiling pattern, the rest you know. Balliste blanks were kept for grenade launching, hence you see additional strapping on some SMLE barrels.

    • @captainswoop8722
      @captainswoop8722 Před 3 lety +2

      @@51WCDodge the strapping is to stop the stock from cracking as the grenade is fired with the butt on the ground. it's nothing to do with the barrel. Wrapping wire round the stock would do nothing to strengthen a barrel.

  • @leonserya720
    @leonserya720 Před 3 lety +1

    The Lee Metford is -the- best looking bolt-action rifle ever made.

  • @yakumoyukari4405
    @yakumoyukari4405 Před 3 lety +21

    Ah yes, Lee-Methord the great uncle of legendary SMLE, a rifle advanced thanks to her magazine. If only MkI had stripper clips initially

  • @elijahmilan9084
    @elijahmilan9084 Před 3 lety

    Could you consider doing a pair of series detailing the history of US and British official service rifles through the years?

  • @kyleno4mk27
    @kyleno4mk27 Před 3 lety

    That's a very nice example!

  • @Mrkleanupguys2
    @Mrkleanupguys2 Před 3 lety

    The cool thing is I have an 1888 Bayonet that my great-great-grandfather got his hands on in the First World War somehow, he was in the Australian Army a rifleman served on the Western Front 1915-1919. it's still in a good way, the crown still there and was used a lot by my grandfather, as a farmers tool.

  • @stone9302
    @stone9302 Před 3 lety +1

    I wonder just how effective the notch on the front sight is. I would love to see a rifle with these type of sights on the 9 Hole Reviews practical accuracy course.

  • @webtoedman
    @webtoedman Před 3 lety +1

    My great Grandmother was born in 1888, the year this design was adopted. She died in 1988. Given that some Indian Police units still use the Lee Enfield, the design has out lived a human being by thirty two years. Strange, isn't it?

  • @cockedandlocked9765
    @cockedandlocked9765 Před 3 lety

    I would love to see a video on the Lee-Metford mk ll*. I have one made in 1896 by Sparkbrook.

  • @supersmasha5560
    @supersmasha5560 Před 3 lety +1

    I've always liked the darker stain the European rifles had from this era. I'm not sure if it's the age of the wood that turns it that color but it's so aesthetically pleasing to me.

  • @jacksoncz8536
    @jacksoncz8536 Před 3 lety +1

    Outstanding As anyone who might of read any of my comments will know, I consider the Lees to be the best Bolt action Battle rifles. The vast majority of problems were the results of English gentlemen making bad decisions. ie Sticking to the rim, after there was smokeless rounds. (Although there were reasonably good reasons when it was using black powder) The choice to not issue the extra magazines when they had the capability to make them was another, that is not the fault of the design. I know someone will comment that the mauser has a stronger action, and it does but for a Battle rifle using a very good round (.303) it didn't need to be stronger. The only reason the P-13 used a mauser type action was that it was designed for a ludicrously over powered round. lol okay don't with my early morning rant.
    Ian thank you for a great rifle and show, well done as usual.
    Who was responsible for the modifications to the magazine? I think I have asked before, were the made by James Paris Lee or Mr. Speed, or was there someone else?
    Maybe I should change from the CZ ( I love Chezce designed guns) to JacksonLee?

  • @GammaAKF
    @GammaAKF Před 3 lety

    I was watching your whitworth muzzleloader sniper video yesterday and noticed that the front sights seemed to have a similar notched front post, was this used on and off on many rifles before?

  • @bmedlin00
    @bmedlin00 Před 3 lety +3

    i have a 1917 lee enfield and the safety is missing always wondered if that was a field modification or if it was broken/lost later in life..looks like it's been gone a long time

    • @51WCDodge
      @51WCDodge Před 3 lety

      Should have it there. Who made it? There were local variations.

  • @johniksushibar165
    @johniksushibar165 Před 3 lety +8

    we have an "owen jones" here in the UK at the mo, the less said about him the better

  • @gregharriage2792
    @gregharriage2792 Před 3 lety +2

    was always curious as to what the damn sun dial looking widget was on the side of my 1915 Lithgow .303... Front volley sight?

  • @Zeppflyer
    @Zeppflyer Před 3 lety +32

    "Owen Jones rifle". I'm surprised that a rifle invented by an American with such a super-Welsh name got as far as it did.

    • @m.j.mahoney8905
      @m.j.mahoney8905 Před 3 lety +6

      Why? The British didn't have any particular beef with the Americans and the Welsh are British.

    • @Zeppflyer
      @Zeppflyer Před 3 lety +4

      @@m.j.mahoney8905 They're British, but they're not *English*.
      And I'm surprised that an American design got so far, compared to domestic ones.

    • @johnkelinske1449
      @johnkelinske1449 Před 3 lety +7

      @@Zeppflyer Why? The Martini was basically an American design. The Snider as well.

    • @iceveins412
      @iceveins412 Před 3 lety +5

      Sean O'Brien Peabody, who invented the basic action of the Martini was American. James Paris Lee was American. Maxim was an American.

    • @Zeppflyer
      @Zeppflyer Před 3 lety +2

      @@iceveins412 Valid points! I'd discount Maxim, though, since there was just no viable competition for the Maxim gun at the time.

  • @shubhojitghosh69
    @shubhojitghosh69 Před 3 lety

    My uncle and dad own 4 of these along with rifles manufactured in Ishapore

  • @Curtislow2
    @Curtislow2 Před 3 lety

    I am wondering what history/ method of stock/forearms staining was used? As they all/mostly seem to be a dark finish.

  • @patrickseaman
    @patrickseaman Před 3 lety

    Two thumbs up, Excellent!

  • @thomashall4232
    @thomashall4232 Před 3 lety

    Be awesome to see some volley sight shooting

  • @fatcat3211
    @fatcat3211 Před 3 lety +1

    Ian needs to do a video just on his book collection.

    • @shawnr771
      @shawnr771 Před 3 lety

      He used to put out library and book reviews on Sundays.

  • @JamesDavis-ek5sq
    @JamesDavis-ek5sq Před 3 lety

    That sling also used for bracing to aim? That would explain its position as well. Sorry if already commented.

  • @Sgtklark
    @Sgtklark Před 3 lety

    You have shown several guns with volley sights. How did they work? When would they be used? Why not have just the one sight for all occasions?

  • @TheWraith1413
    @TheWraith1413 Před 3 lety

    With Alex Zedra, Tony Sentmanat, and Tu Lam being added to COD MW operator rosters for being prominent members of the gun community I say they should ad Ian as well. I mean who better to make a K98 Mg38 loadout for. Just a thought

  • @mcqueenfanman
    @mcqueenfanman Před 3 lety

    I was recently at a flea market, a guy had a box of military rifle stocks. In the pile of stocks of Mauser, M1, Mosin, and a (1)M14 stocks I found a SLME butt stock. Boy, that was a heavy piece of wood. I think the socket was still on it.

  • @demonprinces17
    @demonprinces17 Před 3 lety

    Any chance of seeing the other trial rifles?

  • @nathancole6678
    @nathancole6678 Před 3 lety +1

    Have you done a video on one of those hopper fed rifles?

  • @F1ghteR41
    @F1ghteR41 Před 3 lety

    I'm quite surprised that Ian hasn't talked about Metford rifling at all.

    • @ForgottenWeapons
      @ForgottenWeapons  Před 3 lety +1

      I cover that when I get to the change to Enfield rifling, in an upcoming part of the series.

    • @F1ghteR41
      @F1ghteR41 Před 3 lety

      @@ForgottenWeapons Ah, I see, thanks a lot for answering! Given your close familiarity with the Arisaka family of rifles, can we expect some sort of in-depth discussion on the relative merits of both (i.e. Metford and Enfield) rifling systems?
      Also, since I've got the chance, thanks a lot for your content!

  • @WolfenKlaus
    @WolfenKlaus Před 3 lety

    HEY IAN!
    I have a 1918 Lee Enfield SMLE mk3* my grandfather collected sometime after he served in WW2. Interestingly, where the brass circle that is normally in the stock was replaced with an American quarter minted in 1956. I was wondering if anyone knows of anything similar.

  • @Hawk1966
    @Hawk1966 Před 3 lety

    Sometimes I think about the age of these weapons and that they're still fully functional after so many years. I would have no qualms about taking my 1873/4 Colt New 22 out and shooting it. They made stuff to last back in the day.

  • @ericssmith2014
    @ericssmith2014 Před 3 lety

    10:00 What, not a word about the classic Dymo label patina?

  • @marko11kram
    @marko11kram Před 3 lety

    the rabbit hole goes deep

  • @SvenTheSveed
    @SvenTheSveed Před 3 lety

    Can’t find much about the 402 cartridges or the other rifles in the competition. Are you aware of any surviving examples in firing condition?

  • @oolooo
    @oolooo Před 3 lety

    It looks soooooo much better than some of its succesors

  • @larrys3341
    @larrys3341 Před 3 lety

    Very cool! And rare!

  • @Feiora
    @Feiora Před 3 lety

    What wood/finish was used on that gun to make it look so black from a distance?

  • @flypaper2222
    @flypaper2222 Před 3 lety

    American exceptionalism.....magazine and action!

  • @moaceny946
    @moaceny946 Před 3 lety

    next , a video on ''all types of side mounted magazine'' guns.

  • @jasonkeen3777
    @jasonkeen3777 Před 3 lety

    I own and still shoot a London Small Arms, Lee Metford Mk2 1896, but it has been rebarreled to a SMLE barrel.

  • @petercollingwood522
    @petercollingwood522 Před 3 lety +1

    My grandfather. 111th Coy Imperial Yeomanry, was armed with a Lee Metford in the Boer War.

    • @alan-sk7ky
      @alan-sk7ky Před 3 lety

      And how old are you? I think perhaps you mean great, or great-great grandfather.

    • @davidgillon2762
      @davidgillon2762 Před 3 lety

      @@alan-sk7ky Grandfather would cover it quite easily, 2nd Boer War is 1899 to 1902. Let's say grandfather's birthdate of 1880 to keep it simple, and someone who has a child at 40, so parent's birthdate is 1920, then another child at 40 gives you someone born in 1960 and only 60 now. Younger still would be possible.

    • @petercollingwood522
      @petercollingwood522 Před 3 lety +1

      @@davidgillon2762 Indeed. I'm 52. Never met my grandfather as he died in 1946. My father married in his 30's and I was born a decade later, so atypical in terms of normal continuity.

  • @francoistombe
    @francoistombe Před 3 lety +1

    Curious about the bore size .303. Did enfield armory just pull this out of the air or is it that they chose 7.7 mm for the bore and converted it to imperial to make it appear British.

    • @kevinoliver3083
      @kevinoliver3083 Před 5 měsíci +1

      The British admired the 7.5mm Rubin bullet but wanted something heavier.
      Rather than mess with the aerodynamics, they kept the proportions of the bullet the same, while increasing the overall size.
      Resulting in an increase in calibre to 7.7mm.

  • @Emdee5632
    @Emdee5632 Před 3 lety

    You didn't mention the Metford rifling! :-)