Spy Seminar Series - What Makes Traitors Tick?
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- čas přidán 5. 02. 2014
- He was the psychiatrist for notorious spy Robert Hanssen and interviewed him extensively in prison. David L. Charney knows better than anyone how Hanssen thought and even felt immediately after his long-term espionage was discovered. Did he feel remorse, did he worry about his family, did he care? The answers may surprise you. Charney has worked with a number of high-profile spies and has focused extensively on the psychology and motivation of traitors.
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I have listened to a lot of these International Spy talks and this one is either the best or one of the best ever. The insights are a goldmine for anyone who is concerned about managing their workplace. Thank you.
Good point.
Barrack Hussein Obama is/was a traitor
Integrity and honesty do NOT “come to the fore” in corporate screening.
Some time ago I was viewing a documentary video on Hanssen, and it revealed that he had flunked out of dental school. Now, anybody with a brain can readily see the crippling loss of self-esteem that would cause a person especially when he was later working at an entry level position making minimum wage while his former classmates were succeeding in life to the maximum. Anybody would be exasperated and discontented with a magnified sense of failure in life after such an indignity.
Literally the only thing that could eviscerate my self-esteem more than a career as a dentist MUST be failing to make a career as a dentist, surely! I can see your point.
@@phincampbell1886 Well, I think I sense a hidden failure on your part in trying to get into dental school. The usual response is how much someone would hate to be a dentist when they failed to make high enough grades to get accepted to dental school. I'm sorry you failed in life after that. I wish you well in secondary career of whatever pays a minimum wage.
Aggh, deadly wound inflicted, Jesus, I can't stop the tears now! How did you know!? Yes! Dentistry WAS my first love, my passion, my only dream! But I failed the final clean n polish exam, and it just ruined my life! Since that day, you're so right, I have not known what to live for.
And this pathologically blinding trauma has led, ever since, to most of my thoughts, my outlook, and online comments being motivated by a drive to tacitly seek to revenge myself on the trade, the craft, nay, the golden fraternity, that so scarred me with their rejection, the devastating destruction of my goals and dreams!
Had I known this was such a documented phenomena, so known a dynamic, the usual response among the jilted failed dentists, I wouldn't have so exposed myself all these years! To think, less forward dentists have all been reading my bitter remarks and laughing, aware of what jaded root cana- uh causes have been driving my comments!
Don't forget about the large number of kids - for Robert Hansson - that he had to support.
@@barbaraguntfat3047 Yep, that's definitely expensive. I know what you are talking about.
Hearing these stories of men with promising intelligence careers that ended in infamy, reminds me very much of so many high flying stock market players who ended up broke and / or in jail. Yes I am not a millionaire, but I am also not in jail and in the news for all the wrong reasons. That has to count for something.
It counts for a lot. You have peace of mind because you don:t think like a criminal. Every criminal falls, one way or another, internally or externally. You didn't - congrats!
@@AMunoz-rh9cz Agreed. "Winners" are always competing. And so they always destroy one another, or themselves trying to beat others.
People seem like they envy the "elite"? Why? The majority of us will never rise to that level, but honestly that's a good thing.
"Better is bread with a happy heart than wealth with vexation."
@@nicktrice4921 Where is that quote from - it's a good one!
@@AMunoz-rh9cz An ancient Roman Sage.
Look it up!
@@nicktrice4921LOl. That's what my mother used to say. ..Amenomope circa 11 B.C. Wow. What an interesting ethicist this man was! Thanks for a new source to explore...we don't learn very quickly as a species, do we???
There's possibly a selection bias at work; by definition he's studied failed spies. Maybe there are successful ones whose psychology hasn't been studied. (There was certainly one in Canada, now dead.)
In the longer term, Snowden is beginning to look more like a patriot than a traitor. He may have embarrassed the agencies whose crimes he exposed, but didn't damage the US.
West Germany had a considerable problem with lonely female government workers in Bonn, being seduced and recruited by the East.
A surprising proportion of the agents from the USSR were motivated by disgust at the system, rather than personal problems.
COMEY :: makes Robert Hansson look like St Thomas Aquinas #flexagymgrips
WTF - Snowden disclosed TOR, the software used to access the Deep Web which only CERTAIN Top Secret clearance military could use. After this, the Silk Web was created. The were a criminal website store which sold murders for hire, drugs, etc. That was taken down and the creator got life in prison. NEXT came Alpha Bay, the largest crime ring in history - over 61,000 store fronts. Resulting in thousands, probably tens of thousands of sealed indictments. Jeff Sessions asked Trump for military backup to prevent a Civil outbreak which the crooks could create a civil war with. TRUMP REFUSED! Trump knew that many had dirt on him and in plea bargains would result in him and his closest echelon, the Clinton Crime Syndicate, of being part of plea bargains as well as the indicted ones. TRUMP FIRED Rex Tillerson while Tillerson wasn't even in the country - in a damn tweet! Trump was impeached but nobody punished him, except maybe a censure. This is a terribly lawless government. Mike Pompeo wanted emergency immunity because his a$$ was grass after USMC had to bomb the CIA factories because Pompeo wouldn't! Once Trump made Pompeo Secretary of State, nobody could touch him.
DEVIL'S CHESSBOARD
has more precedence than the US Constitution!
@@americanpro6980 And what an idiot Comey really is, too. Oliver North seemed smarter than him. Oliver North was a criminal insider too! He was even known by some insiders on social media to have ordered murder hits as a CIA operative which was completely ORGANIZED CRIME.
Wise words.
Perhaps lonely female West German government workers lacked the men who were casualties from WWll.😢
On many levels, a brilliant presentation! Thank you!
Please take in to account the so called "survivors bias" or in this case the "caught bias" fallacy.
This is absolutely riveting!!
A respectful professional person providing information for greater understanding. Great researcher.
Sounds like the Pink Panther
Great lecture!
Dr. Charney is so charming. His presentation manner is easy and fun. I’m here after seeing the film Breach. I sure hope I make it to the Spy Museum someday!
The guy is a narcissist. His accent and way of speaking is unbearable
Play back at 125% speed to make the audio sound normal. It's crazy slow otherwise.
1.5x even better
So true.
I'm quite satisfied with it.
When the speakers keep saying “Um, ah, okay, alright” is what drives me nuts!
For me being not a native speaker it is a very good speed.
So many valid points have to throw that in there
Interesting and thought-provoking lecture. Thank you.
So good. Thank you.
Hearing those words, that picture, seeing those big bushy mustaches, all combined, such that I had a flashback of being back in bed with my ex girlfriend.
One of the most interesting lectures, so far.
For all intellectual rigor in trying to detect someone working against you, is to have someone on another side to start working for you.
Very good lecture. An exceptional question and answers sessions.
How do you pick a person up when the spiral is happening? This was a good lecture but it makes me wonder what non-intelligence, non-military, non-‘postal’ people do. And what do you do to get a person out of a hole. It’s very common and I hope people can be saved.
From my personal experience it takes drastic change quickly to pull someone from a downward spiral. People have to mentally replace what they are loosing or have lost with something better or the same or it will continue to negatively effect them. In a perfect world you could teach them to get ghrough it but in practice whatever the problem is has already gone past the learning stage and is a part of there life.
its like the same hundred people are roaming the internet disliking all they see
I didn't know people actually had this accent, I thought it was only on films 😂
thanks for the upload
“ It’s double pleasure to trick the trickster” - Machiavelli
And Nicky Mach was borrowing from or inspired by what narrative and which characters from myths of pantheons ancient? Who delighted in undertaking to trick which trickster?!
Not that it matters, really!
I was really interested in this topic but his voice kept putting me to sleep. Very calming voice.
Very interesting stuff !
I regret my junior and high school years, I should have been studying and working out to train for a life in the military and spook work afterwards. These guys have the coolest stories, imagine the stuff they have to take to the grave? You could become a part of history, but the world will never hear about it. At least not when it matters such as when they classify documents for 50 - 75 years.
As O'Neil said, even the Russian dont know who Hansen was. He identify as B then Ramon Garcia.
Hubby picked out some old Bullwinkle cartoon videos. This man's voice reminds me of one of the actors doing a character from "Fractured Fairy Tales"
Beautiful analysis and so respectful to everyone involved. Thank you for a terrific educational moment.
Rofl
I am very appreciate this lecture dear great🌎🌎🌎🌎🌎
Wow, brilliant, radiant, deep story! He takes us to the deep realm of "myth", like a Greek tragedy. Way beyond the second Chakra, where Freund was stuck. Up to the third of Adler. But these characters, never made it to the fourth of Jung's.
Why do you say Freud was stuck up in his second chakra? Is that the navel, did he get fat? Haha
I'm wondering if asking with reference to his theoretical development, over time, focusing upon our relation to matters anal, sexual, and oral, might be a better way of trying to ask you this. But I don't know enough to ask anything clever, you'll have to help me
When's your presentation in which u expound upon this topic, o wise one?
@@blondequijote Lol! Unfortunately, there won't be one. Ever since I rediscovered the comparative mythology of the late Joseph Campbell, decades later, my whole world opened up to it's inherent depths. My own "Hero's Journey", started decades ago, with history, archaeology, religion, Buddhist mindfulness (Thick Nhat Hanh) and then Campbell's C.P.. It was a serendipitist, "apparent fate of the individual" (Schopenhauer) which we all experience, if we have the guts to follow our our bliss. It's a search that takes us back home to ourselves, like the "Cardinal Phases of the Moon" from about 500 years ago. I'm overwhelmingly self taught, did terrible in school all my life, with no real help. Having to wait until I was 50 to even begin to realize what I was good at, makes it all so much appreciated & precious.
I can only respond to a person individually, if they ask?
VERY INTERESTING
great analysis. that obnoxious rattling in the background in the middle was making me crazy tho.
"What makes traitors tic?"
IDK, maybe a corrupt government
Yes. innumerable Soviet agents were turned on the basis of their own recognition of the moral failure of the Kremlin.
Corrupt or badly supervised business organizations, offices, or groups do the same thing.
You either get out, or take your chances by dropping that dime. 😮
This is a wonderful video!
Guy is a douche. That's a speach impediment, for sure
Interesting stuff!
I used to appreciate Snowden's efforts. However, Jester's take on the issue made a lot of sense and really put things into perspective for me. As an amateur/aspiring cryptographer (following Paar's lessons) I think I'd rather be a Frodo. Entropy is so overwhelming.
I loved this lecture!
So it is OK to violate the US Constitution? Isn't the principles and values of the US Constitution what we want to defend?
And why does he find refuge in RUSSIA?
@@ogarzabelloexposing a government's secret mass surveillance is protecting civilian's constitutional rights. The NSA is the one violating the constitution.
@@susanmcdonald9088 because it's the only country that he will be not fucked over like my other
@@susanmcdonald9088 He didn't choose to go to Russia. He wanted to stay in Germany but the US pressured their government to extradite him.
"Directly into our program... so enough said..." The start is at 7:10.
Very interesting presentation by an engrossing speaker.
PS the only reason I would ever eat in a gourmet restaurant. Because I could cook it myself anyway. It's because I don't want to do the dishes. Ain't nothing like having somebody to cook for to enjoy a good meal.
As Kaela's speshal friend says in my head, I need to learn my place.
@Bobb Grimley it's a joke. I was in special ed, but we are called "special" like we have special abilities and give hope to the world. We're really "speshal."
@Bobb Grimley we might as well have been taught spycraft, how to pick a lock, how to hotwire/steal a car, personality types, and avoiding death in many ways. A lifetime of abuse is helpful with the reflexes we have. Special people don't get scholarships. We go straight to hell where we "belong." One, two, three, I'm so happy. They are so lucky I didn't go postal. They always label me the school shooter.
@Bobb Grimley are you okay? You should be so sensitive about life. It's fairly brutal. I make jokes. That keeps the sun rising.
Snowdon was a whistle blower.
Snowden was a traitor and got people killed we know that now it took years of investigation it got like 20 people
If you recruit people with a family connection or long term / life long friendship with someone in the group you are recruiting for I'd bet the data shows lower likelihood to turncoat.
I know if I were recruited by a close friend of family member I'd feel even that much more committed to whatever job it is.
this was very good video. too bad the slides were mostly washed out with glare.
Interesting observation when he answers the question about how the US has used vulnerabilities to recruit spies from other countries. He cites an example of how the US might become aware that a KGB agent's wife is suffering from some horrible disease, and then convince him to spy against his own country by getting him an antibiotic that isn't available in the Soviet Union, essentially spying to save his wife's life.
He points out that we know that exploiting vulnerabilities like this work, and yet on our "defense" side, we don't see how foreign governments use the same strategy to recruit Americans into spying.
First, I think he's wrong. We know that this is how Americans get recruited. The trick is in compiling information on all these vulnerabilities on all our intelligence workers - not easy. And second, I think we still have a myopic view that we as Americans are somehow "different" or "better" than everybody else, as though we wouldn't be vulnerable to the same pressures that a Soviet agent would be.
LOok up the case of Polyakov (Top Hat) - he wanted the Ussr to pay for treatment for his son who had polio - treatment that was available in the US. They refused and the son died. This embittered him.
This was Dr. Yueh’s motivation for treason in Dune.
I also find myself extremely dubious when anyone asserts some implicit inherent characteristic or moralistic superiority bias held in common by x nation, in contrast to the frail human condition shared by all those Others over in y nation.
Any grouping and reification of some class of people, which is distinguished from either a specific alternative group, or else simply everyone else, is to me immediately problematic. It must, unless we return to some kind of racial/national mapping of innate genetic, cultural, etc., differences then it seems reductively black and white to think anything but that we all of us have a common heritage of human strengths, weaknesses, motivations, fears, hopes, ego, emotional complexity, confusion, and basic animal drives combined with intellectually reached ideals, for better or worse, spread across the board.
I don't think anyone who practises a need to deeply engage with an alien target population can do otherwise than to reject polarised or simplified accounts of both themselves and their targets.
I'm typing on a tiny postage stamp box on my phone, sorry for a somewhat untidy and imprecise ramble
In today's politics it's called gerrymandering, voter suppression, and good old boy Jim Crow.
Speech. E...E. Two of them, Dearie, two of them.
I want closure. I'm getting my house. You know you were wrong, admit it.
He sounds like the shrink on MASH.
Oh gawd, face roll!!!
A dangle? Okay the first thing that comes to my mind is Jay dangle Reno 911 series funny show still laughing
We need a Snowden to tell us what UFO/UAPs are.
The shark tank analogy I love it. The first thing I'm thinking is megalodon not extinct. LOL and scarred. Took the bites. That's a computer thing bytes the computer with the phone and it told me that's the right way to spell that word. Smartphones what are you going to do?
Noir Blanco
His voice is interesting. Henry Higgins would have a field day !
I can't really read the screen on my TV my glasses suck. But I'm sure desensitizing is after the first one that sensitizing one. Too late my dad already did that long time ago.
We all know what makes a traitor to an enemy country tick. They're brave people who take a stand against evil because of the high ideals that surface, often from contact with cultured outreachers from our country. Principles and morality triumph.
Of course, I don't mean our traitors. Traitors to our country are inherently evil people who give way to unethical and sordid malignant psychological corruption that is latent within them, or else they're weak and succumbed to vice like greed, or some other corruption or coercion, and these triumph over principles and morality.
It's that simple. Thank fuck it's that simple, it's better than having to think about the illegality and disturbing activity exposed within a government by their traitors.
Life is not bipolar ɓlack&white. Just ask Daniel Ellsberg/Pentagon
Papers.
Whose this Epstein guy everyone's talking about and why did he kill himself?
7 minutes of intro. Bleh. Introductions are too often too long. Just get to the main event already. Great presentation and mastery of the subject matter by Dr. Charney, though. Fascinating presentation.
It's CZcams - skip over it. Sometimes the context is important.
Intros are mainly to give folks attending time to settle in their seats (really)--and if they're the type to do so, have their note taking apparatus readied. Luckily, CZcams has a skip forward.
Wonderboy the man-child
Ungrateful bastard!
You didnt give any insight ! Damn!
This guy sounds like the Mad Hatter from Disney's adaptation of Alice In Wonderland.
What did ES reveal that wasn't already exposed by a PBS special a few months previous?.Everything I heard him say was old news.
I love Eric O Connell among all in this series of documentaries. Yes! He is a great professional and smart man❤🇺🇲. Make him the next FBI Director or Defense Secretary😊
FBI is trash
I had to come back for one last comment. Imagine spying like in the old days during prohibition where you knock on the door and they slide the eye hole open and they say what's the password. I think I figured it out. The answer is it's secret. Haha too cool
Partly I do disagree.... but consider some people take right and wrong higher than any oath. If you look especially into the stories of topas, which is a great example, because he was a spy sent into position and not a traitor, and still he said once he would have done it without pay. Whenever you have people, doesnt matter if intel for intelligence, intel to law enforcement,.... that are doing that for their own reasons that are neither monetary or rewarded, you will always fail with stopping those.
Play at 1.5 speed for normal speach
Great suggestion. Also an engine was starting around 50:00
@@MrContradictions eifdahtgsdw
Thank you!
Might be the device you're listening on. Normal speed sounds fine to me.
1.25 is actually perfect
Dr. I think you need to ask what the Gov't org is doing wrong as well. BTW, I don't think you've covered what makes them tick. You've just spoken about how they've felt...identified patterns. That's different.
I’m curious why their aren’t protocols for agents who have turned coat, but want to come clean and flip back. I would imagine having a system in which an agent can come clean and by doing so then be used as a tool in disinformation for the enemy. Having such a protocol would also cause a situation in which the enemy could never accept any agent seeking to turn coat. As far as the fact that the agent could never be fully trusted that surely is true however their are ways to continue to use said agent without worrying about breaching information. At the very least the agent should be allowed to come clean and after debriefing, they should be discharged from service, and barred from any jobs with any security clearance but still have the opportunity to make a life for themselves and their family. I believe that the current methods have obvious faults and so why isn’t their research on how to develop better protocols for double agents.
Even if a traitor comes clean they should not just be able to go on with their lives with no consequences. Especially if people are arrested, tortured or killed because of their actions. Then there is the cost and danger to our nation to figure in. No free rides. They must pay for the betrayal.
This is such a dangerous business that "protocols" are confusing to the point of being meaningless. Example, protocols would not work for the so called "war on terror", Al-Queda, or the Taliban.
So on the chart with the bell curve thing LOL if you just wanted to put like my face and that curve as the hunchback of Notre Dame on the good side of things with bad things happening all the time that's the way I describe my life. I need to talk to this guy anyway meat stuff
Captions would be helpful.
There's a spy museum? 🤔
USSR held my cat hostage and threatened her life. That’s how they got me
Snowden exposed the rot that we all know exists in these organisations. We salute yo Edward for exposing these Swamp creatures.
31:12 he was a greedy bastard who needs money- the spy. And you, the one hires him, what is it you want mr not-bastard??! MORE MONEY ... 🤮😤
"Step into the role of the handler, except not exploitative." Well, except self promotion, probable book deal and paid speaking gigs which capitalize on their notoriety and what he learned due to his exclusive access to "the world's loneliest people." 🤨
Are you the real lady pictured in your profile here? Whoever that is, is gorgeous.
@@TheTexasmick Thank you. 😊
This guy really didnt say anything. It was all about how he talked to hansen
World) of operations
WORLD of operations
Charney ...programming traitors for failure...
Older white woman was offered a respectful arrest.
I need to hire a private investigator, I am hopeful that it's already being done, but I have had some really bad things happen to me in at least the last 3 years. I am starting to believe that it's been happening much longer than that although. More like the last 22 years.
Kind of strange to mention it here. Hope all is well.
Is it safe for you to comment here? I hope your abuser doesn't read your comments. Your name is showing.
A good, and preferable sympathetic attorney could help - unless they work(ed) for Trump.😂
So I'm commenting like I'm watching this live. And so you get to the park where you're talking about why why and then you say the white chromosome that's cute anyway so I just thinking to myself basically without punctuation sorry you'll work it out I'm sure. There's one for you the problem is that you might talk to text stops after punctuation and I think that it's easier to just let it roll. Here we go again it didn't work that time either so at any rate my idea is to be able to explain things to people in short order even though this is totally contradictory to this text. Throwing some comedy in here. Anyway I'll get back to you I can't stop laughing.
Snowden and Manning are the greatest of Heros ! Brave men among Oceans of Cowards like Charney.
Spoken like a true traitor. People died because of snowden.
@@judyjackson2260 your so ignorant.
@@judyjackson2260 The NSA itself says that Snowden did not cause any deaths.
311th 👍 on 3/11/2020
What the Good Doctor does not understand is that he is working for the bad guys.
I played this at 1.25 speed.
Beyond the terrible voice, there is little content. It not about spies whose mind is obviously not like ours.
Go it
Is snowden a traitor?
I think the argument goes that he could have flagged up the bad things without doing what he did.
As far as soldiers go, and I'm not sure what happens in the CIA, but it's a high-stress environment where people crack and will do stupid things that are semi-entertaining. That one is obvious by chains of command if they watch their soldiers. Mine really did try to get me help. Hollywood got in the way, a trap, and I also was replaced in Cuba.
Shoulda screened for patriotism. Then you coulda kept Snowden from blowing up your spot
With regard to homosexuality (1:14:45), I'm wondering if it was a factor decades ago, when it was far less acceptable in society and homosexual men were vulnerable to blackmail.
That's why they were kept out of the military.
Also adultery, not its socially expected.
Show Me Traitors In Capitol Hill, MSM, Hollywood Colaborators. Local Mafia.
...How to find Waldo?... Birth Data!
Snowden is a patriot and a hero; only traitors call him a traitor.
He is a traitor and murderer.
Great presentation. But i still agree with Snowden, what he did and the balls it took to do it knowing the possible consequences. He opened the worlds eyes. He Chelsea Manning and Julian Assange all did that, and credit to them.
And made no money !
Julian Assange was on the Trumpican/FSB propaganda/psy-ops payroll.
They've gotten creative. It should be a book, dammit. But with the technology, couldn't you guys send out a pulse to deal find people who are about to betray you?
this dudes a gargoyle for a variety of reasons
Snowden is a hero.
It doesn't really matter what he is, the attention span of most of us is so short that it's impossible to take almost any of us seriously
Only history and the U.S. slow/archaic declassification system doesn't help. Only Donald's version of Spock's "mind-meld" would
speed this up!?!?
45:10 he needs a whole movie? A snap shot does not explain what is going on? I wish he would study more math, because we can tell a lot by a snapshot when we have a math and forensics background. I think he would improve as a psychologist if he took a complete course of math.
What Makes Traitors Tick? Ha!, ask any democrat, they should know.
I don't want Russia i want America traitors In America Destroying America . You let them Go w/ millios. Look senate, congress Look their bank acc. Ask about Travels, organis, bank acc. Not Little Peoples Sick , xcused.. More Psyh.... The worrst Society became, FF kids shootig. Where are Their Psychiatrists ?!
White papers here: noir4usa.org/
This guy is, one, making observations that are fairly obvious, and two, to say that compartmentalizing (in a way )makes them still good men who later say they still love their country is such psycho babble. People get killed, lives and countries are turned upside down because they cannot keep their own sworn duties in line. In addition, he completely missed the factor of "the thrill" these types get from feeling the have "gotten over on" governments, superiors, and imagine themselves as super-intelligent and that is what always catches them. They are never as smart as they think they are.
You never hear about those who got away, except in the movies - Shawshank Redemption, The Great Escape, et al.
Acting like snowden did a bad thing