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Oh Krytie... | Red Dwarf | Krytie TV | S8 Ep 5 | Gallifrey Gals Get Dwarfed
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- Oh boy oh boy. We know how well it goes when we know what's to happen in the future!
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I totally understood what you mean and respect why you expressed it, and I also greatly admire that you don't demonize others for finding humor from their own perspective. It's too common for us to be unable to connect and grow together because we can't empathize and/or identify with the viewpoints of others. Love you guys!
@alanwolters9651 Well said. I was trying to come up with a comment like this. Again we'll done.
Well done gals ❤
Red Dwarf is remarkably even-handed in this respect. I think Krytie TV should be considered with the context in mind that there was also that parallel universe R63 episode (I forget what it was called) where the female mirrors of the boys really reflected badly. THAT was weird and un-fun for me to watch as a man, because I was thinking all throughout "even at their absolute worst, Lister and Rimmer aren't THIS bad. Rimmer has some weird ideas about women thanks mainly to his mother, but he was never an actual sex pest and Lister, while sometimes thoughtless, would never be so cavalier and casual about pregnancy".
Bottom line; Red Dwarf isn't afraid to go there and IS a comedy at the end of the day. The writers were trying to tackle gender relations in ways that equally invite consideration while also getting a chuckle... and everyone is going to get differing mileage out of the 'comedy' angle.
Back in the 80s and 90s, there was a popular entertainer called Jeremy Beadle. He had a show called Beadle's About. He would set up crazy scenarios and elaborate pranks on the general public. That is what inspired Krytie TV, especially the beard Kryten was wearing towards the end.
...and when JB left it was re-invented as "You've Been Framed" , from which Krytie's catchphrase is adapted.
@therealpbristow nope, not true. You've Been Framed started in 1990 and Beadle's About ended in 1996.
@@Trikeboy2Oh? OK, my memories are obviously a bit scrambled. Hang on...
[RANSACKS GOOGLE AND WIKIPEDIA]
Ah! Looks like I got it confused with "Game For A Laugh", which actually preceded "Beadle's About". (See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_for_a_Laugh) And "You've Been Framed" wasn't a pranks show, but rather a "send us your home videos of hilarious cock-ups" show. So the only bits I got right were "there were two shows with variations of the same idea, with one or more regular cast/presenters in common". =:o/
But I wonder if Doug Naylor had the same confusion as me, then? Or was there some other prank-show around that time with a "you've been $(whatevered)" catchphrase...? =:oo
@@therealpbristow No I think Krytie TV was defiantly 'Beadle's About', because Beadle/Krytie was there in disguise. It was also similar to the "Gotchas" from 'Noel Edmond's House Party' where he would set up prominent UK public figures/celebrities into doing dumb shit and then reveal himself, say "GOTCHA!", and present them with a statuette similar to an Oscar, and then the victim'd usually attack Edmonds in a restrained good natured "I'm SO EMBARRESSED THAT I'D KILL YOU BUT I'M BEING RECORDED!!" sort of way and Edmonds would just play along with it. Both would have been in living memory of the series going out.
Overall, I think it was a satire of hidden cam prank shows and the PPV adult channels that were becoming available at the time on things like SKY.
And during his height Beadle went into a pub just to use the loo. And they locked him in. For some time
When they were filming the fake Invisible Aliens movie for Red Dwarf, George Lucas and the real Star Wars people were doing production for Star Wars Episode 1 at the same film studio location. George Lucas was walking by when they were filming the Invisible alien scene and they had to explain to Lucas that they were purposefully filming a crappy sci-fi "B" movie.
Did George Lucas explain to them whatever the fuck he was filming?
I vaguely recall a Craig Charles interview in which he recalls a fair few cast and crew from both productions trying to sneak on to each others set.
@@laserpanda94 He explained that, while he went over the top in a few places, it was stylistically designed to be that way.
@@laserpanda94 Kill Crazy put cameras in R2D2 for Padme and the handmaiden's changing room
A funny thing about this is because of the extensive use of green screen by Lucas, actors reacting to invisible aliens wouldn't have been so different to what he was filming.
Loster had a point about the dead guy, remember that's a universe where the dead can still be around as a hologram, somebody could plan their funeral posthumously.
I would imagine that with Petersen being in the catering section he wouldn't be top of the list for hologram status lol
Hell, that happened in the first episode, with Flight Co-ordinator George Macintyre
@user-xo2xd1gu5e oh, I missed the bit where he read who it was from.
Yeah, Peterson wouldn't be top of the list for hologramatic status.
@@wyndblayde6103 but how do we know George wasnt resurrected too if Rimmer was? The nanites could have reset the whole "death pecking order" or restoring the ship to what they called the original design may have altered the number of holograms they could support.
Lol, Loster?
The best thing about this episode?
That we are now able to have conversations about how that is not ok, and balanced talk about what was actually funny in this one. Love you gals! Stay awesome 🥰
Rimmer: THE APPEAL!!!
Lister: yeah I’m appealing.
Holly: well that’s the minority view
you can use comedy to highlight serious issues as long as its done in the right way and i think they done it in the right way. i remember watching it when it originally aired back then and we knew it was wrong but could still appreciated the comedy elements.
so the plot about the confiscated guitar strings came from a conversation Doug Naylor had with Craig Charles, who had been in prison before this series was filmed. he asked Charles if he'd be allowed a guitar in prison, and he told him "probably, but they''d have to take the strings so they couldn't be used as a weapon or to hang yourself with them"
apparently was a big battle for the guards of another Charles in prison - Manson - to stop him getting guitar strings
the scene with Kryten and Lister on the balcony was a rare occasion where they were able to adlib because Bobbie kept forgetting his lines. it worked out absolutely perfectly
Well, you can't say we didn't warn you... Yeah... Even at the time it originally aired, we felt like someone had thrown cold water on us when the dodgy stuff began.
Other than that, I love the 'Ackerman eye' scene. The actor is obviously having so much fun in the role, and his slightly camp nature somehow makes him scarier.
You may recognise the actor also as Dwalin in The Hobbit trilogy, he's awesome.
Yeah - I spent half the movie trying to figure out where I knew that one Dwarf from. Quite chuffed to realise it was from another Dwarf... lol
This episode gets a lot of hate, and some of the stuff in it is indeed cringeworthy, but it has one of my favourite Red Dwarf moments - "Oh no, we've been frozen in time again!"
I really like this episode and I'm sorry some of your life experiences haven't allowed you to enjoy it more yourselves. It's good that you can acknowledge that it does have an appeal for others and thanks for emphasising that the writing is done in a way which shows the non-consent of the Candid Camera stuff isn't cool.
I'm also laughing harder at the thought of Kat watching the "pubes on the soap" bit over and over during editing. What a trooper you are, ha ha.
Kryten invented kick streams?! In case you didn’t know, a choc ice is a small, rectangular slab of vanilla ice cream, coated in chocolate.
Yeah. This episode has some fun moments and while the whole shower filming this is contextualised as obviously being intensely wrong, it doesn't sit great with me because the Cat, Lister, & Rimmer doing something so immoral feels very out of character to me. Especially Lister, who has previously been characterised as a man who prides himself on his moral courage.
As a positive though, a friend of mine who is a trans man told me this series (and this ep) were one of the things that really helped him growing up when he saw it as a kid. Kryten who is obviously male and has always been accepted as such experiencing humiliation and upset because he doesn't have a penis and so is technically 'a woman' when he obviously isn't made their own struggles feel very heard and and valid. Especially at a time in the late 90s when there wasn't a lot else playing it straight and acknowledging in a sensitive way that misgendering someone was a very unpleasant and traumatic thing for them to experience.
This is exactly the reaction I expected and it was a beautifully balanced and nuanced take. It's an episode I tend to only revisit when I do a full marathon of the show every few years, and yeah... it's of its time. The specific hidden-camera show I think it was parodying was Beadle's About, which was popular in the UK in the late-80s/early-90s. The next story is not a favourite of mine either, but I'm looking forward to Series 10 onwards...
This episode was in the news recently (Metro - 20th June 2024) after the BBC pulled it from iPlayer. Fans were speculating that it was because of the 'dated sexist content', but the BBC soon re-uploaded it and said it was because of a technical issue.
Classic overreactions from people when they don't have all the info.
@@WickerrmanOr, the BBC were caught out and didn't want to deal with the negative attention.
Face it, people have admitted to doing weirder and hollower things in the name of appearing progressive.
it wasn't even "pulled", either - Red Dwarf wasn't on iplayer at all before and there were another 3 episodes that also didn't go live to begin with.
@@Wickerrmanyes and no. People wouldn’t have these type of reactions if this type of thing hadn’t already happened multiple times on various platforms (fawlty towers, the it crowd for example).
been dreading this one... glad its done now. thanks for hanging in there.
Soup, soup
A tasty soup, soup
A spicy carrot and coriander
(Chilli chowder)
Crouton, crouton
Crunchy friends in a liquid broth
I am gazpacho
Oh
I am a summer soup
Mmm
Miso, miso
Fighting in the dojo
Miso, miso
Oriental prince in the land of soup
I got a soft spot for this episode. I get why people hate it but the shenanigans still give me a laugh
Hi Gals! I see this episode as a look at the prison economy . I like how Kryten end up as a cross between Caretaker (the fixer in The Longest Yard/ The Mean Machine) and Grouty, a character in UK prison sitcom Porridge who was a convicted crime boss who even the guards were scared of.
A few years ago (or more), a youtube friend got hold of a sex tape (file) of a lass we knew, a fellow youtuber, and offered to send it to me.
I immediately refused. I mulled it over, because the concept of grassing and causing waves was an issue, but in the end, I contacted said female and told her the issue.
As it turned out, she said it was okay to watch the video, I think she was quite proud of it.
The point being, Rimmer and Lister had no cause to stay for the viewing. In particular Lister, he's supposed to be the more moral of the two.
The prison guard with the one eye is Dwalin from the Hobbit movies.
The morality isn't too bad. Whenever the showers are discussed, Kryten, Rimmer or Lister at least Try to make the moral argument against it.
It's just not very funny, especially by Red Dwarf standards.
I can't believe it's almost been a year of watching Red Dwarf! It's flown by!
Kat likes Dark humour?
You guys nees to see the league of gentlemen.
1: its a derk 90's sitcom.
2: co written by Mark Gatiss. He plays a lot of the characters...
3: Has some supernatural elements.
You know it makes sense
Was close to the bone on voyeurism stuff, but also I think it's just not 'red dwarf' in most the humour and content. A couple of many reasons this season got panned. The one off season 9 is bad too but for very different reasons but does gradually get better and more back to the type of Red Dwarf from previous seasons. Another great reaction.
I'm giving myself a gentle little finger...
...What are we doing?!!
Was expecting a worse reaction based on the subject of this episode. I can see why it would hit a nerve for some people and I'm glad they portrayed it as being so deplorable.
I watched the odd episode of red dwarf as a kid, but this was the season that aired when I really got into it and is my favourite. (Unpopular opinion)
Don't have to worry going forward no episode is gonna come close to being as offensive as this
It's good to hear a modern take on what we once found acceptable, you two always put a good perspective on what now can be seen as problematic scenarios but also understanding the time the show was made... It's one of the reasons I watch.
Never change you two, it's always good to hear your thoughts.
I don't think it was ever found acceptable, but now for some reason instead of just understanding that, people now actively call it out and draw attention to it.
@@Wickerrman I agree. It was ick at the time. It plays even worse now.
Doug admitted once that they struggled to write for women, he did his best with the best intentions. This is why I agree season 7 is not the best it's very much a lads season but still has some funny bits.
I think you covered a lot of the problems with this episode well, thing I feel about this season and this episode specifically is that in earlier seasons this is the sort of shit Rimmer might pull but Lister would call him out on it. But it would only be very early Rimmer and even then Rimmer would be more likely to say he'd do it with bravado but change his mind realising how shitty it was.
When Lister calls himself "The Love Assassin", I can't help but think that'll be a beautiful prank show on CZcams, sabotaging people's dates for a laugh.
I watched the whole thing & I only had one choc ice!
I'm so sorry you had those experiences, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, but I'm also so glad you can look past those and see the expression for what it is. You expressed it better than I probably could, your maturity is amiss to so many other people.
Would love the Gals to sit and watch a 60s or 70s Carry On film!
That would be an interesting discussion afterwards!
It's worth noting that this episode was aired out of order (it was supposed to be episode 7), and the broadcast order stuck. It doesn't change much, but it does make sense out of a line Kryten says in this episode (you'll figure out which).
Two odd details I noticed in this episode.
1: The Music that was used during Lister and Rimmers "clean up" scene is the exact same music used in the Power Rangers movie when they fight Ivan oozes goopy henchmen.
2: This episode has the exact same laugh track as the episode "Heroes and Villains" from the classic British sitcom "Only Fools and Horses".
I am cursed with noticing such details as a fan of both shows (and enjoyer of that movie).
You’re very lucky to achieve in one year what we had to wait over 10 years to indulge in
My dad use to read the reader's digest.
Ah....this episode. When people talk about this series being bad, they're often thinking of this one specifically. Its not even a case of it having been made in a different time - I remember when it came out and the whole "secretly filming the women in the shower," bit did not go down well even then. For something that came out in 1999, it was really badly considered. They did handle Kochanski's reaction to it well and it was good that Lister ultimately told her. But in previous series, Lister had always shown far more respect for women and despite his general horniness, this felt really out of character for him. Rimmer, not so much, because he's always been a sexist weasel. Cat has no morals, so I can see him not caring, either. But Lister was better than that.
Overall, it is a very cringy episode, but I agree the final joke about the appeal is great.
I'd never thought about the 3 hours part of the krytie tv show. Only thing I could think of is either he filmed multiple showers from different days for the 1 movie, or there were a lot of female prisoners and the showers had to be rotated on who could use them at a time and kryten just stayed in.
I do like this episode but it is because its a throwback to the birth of pranks from the late 80s and Jeremy Beadle..Lister says "Kryten is that you" and all he had was a crappy fake beard on, that was exactly how a Jeremy beadle was, some of the pranks were awesome to be fair...if you can find some of that Jeremy Beadle content and watch, it would put this into better context for you.
the show was called "Beadles about"
Fun fact: Ackerman is played by Graham McTavish, the VA for Dracula from Netflix's Castlevania series.
I think you were fair with your comments on this episode.
My problem with this episode is largely the characterisation of Lister, who is portrayed as being much more morally weak in this episode than elsewhere. Lister is lazy and unhygienic, but he is also principled.
On the positive side, I like the growing friendship between New Rimmer and Lister in this episode. That gets better in the next two.
Also, for me, this was the first full series I watched: I saw Epideme, then The End, then Series 8.
Can't believe you were talking over the "Self Raising" gag at 11:30
I loved when Kachansky told Lister he shoulda asked....he then i asked...i love kachantsky's response after the bad part was exposed..."Not now, not EVER! and we are not friends any more.".....going along was that toxic behavoir, Lister deserves to have hte loss of a friend....he shoulda respected her from the beginning and said HELL NO to being a part of it
Don't forget three episodes after Season 8.... which many for some reason don't like, but I love
Me too
to really appreciate it you need to be familiar with the Bladerunner plot
@@synaesthesia2010 also, imo, Mind Robber
But to me only the end is like that.
Like every episode of Dwarf it has some fun bits but most of the humor doesn't work for me. If it's your jam then I'm happy they made it for you.
Hyperdrive is another sci fi spaceship british comedy worth a look. It flopped but it had potential, needed a third series I thought.
tried too hard to be another Red Dwarf, failed badly (IMO, of course)
Was that the sci-fi comedy wehre Miranda Hart had a role in it, or am I thinking of something else?
@@Stephen-FoxYes. Nick Frost is in it too. Father Christmas in Last Christmas.
Even when I was barely out of my teens and still ruled by my hormones, I never really found the shower thing funny or titillating. It just seemed like low hanging fruit and beneath the standards of the show. It has certainly not aged well, but almost everything else in the episode, especially the classic Lister/Rimmer dynamic, was pretty great.
theres a little black cat that always says hello to me when i go for a walk.. he kinda reminds me of a cat i had when i was a kid.. and also the cat that eventually evolved inthe the red dwarf Kat
My favourite part of this episode was Chris's escalating delivery of the "They're mine!"s :)
Yes I was expecting your reaction, and yes you are right! This episode is icky and feels like it was written by teenage boys. The biggest problem is Lister... he is *supposed* to be the moral heart of the show. For all of his other extremely obvious flaws, he at least tries do the right thing. But here he only grudgingly refuses to participate because of the risk to his appeal (rather like the old lag whose only regret was getting caught).
And he loses Kochanski's respect and care because of his actions, he is punished for what he did. He's shown to not be a perfect person who makes the right decisions, he's a slob and messes up here.
Yeah I really wish he had just walked out. He can show reluctance. He can still betray her trust by not telling her. All the pieces are there.
Sorry but I can't concur. This episode may be icky, but it feels like it was written by life-wise adults with a solid understanding of human nature and an impeccable gauge for how their characters would react.
Starting with Kill-Crazy and his severe impulse control issues; he both has AND expresses the idea with barely a moment's reflection. Rimmer has the narcissistic response where he knows there is a moral issue, but might chose to ignore it except for his greater self-interest (the appeal). The power-brokers within the male prisoner community, true psychopaths, they of course have the means and the will to take advantage of Kill-Crazy's idea, just for the power it yields over other inmates. This is an extremely realistic development for the plot given the setup. And also the collective-defense response of the female inmates, expelling the predator, seems very realistic, but being male I don't have as much insight here.
Lister, Rimmer and Cat all have the situation dropped on them and are put into a stupor by their biological response. Lister and Rimmer both express their higher-mind's intentions: Lister says "We've got to stop it" (a reaction of moral responsibility) and Rimmer says "If we get caught your appeal is dead" and "I want no part of this" (a reaction of rules-based correctness). They want to leave but their enlightened interests are subverted by their biological interests. Then, when Lister is able to take action again he is open and reflective about how he reacted. He could easily have lied about or omitted the extent to which he watched her.
@@deegee7133 I don’t think “realism” is all that much a factor here. If Lister had walked out, that would also have been in character and “realistic.” (Or “believable” as fictional stories are less about what’s real than what seems believable.)
To that end, Lister making the choice to succumb to his baser instincts in that moment just make him come off as more unlikable and even sub-textually suggests that any straight man would’ve done the same thing. This isn’t a minor lapse in judgment. This is a major betrayal and violation of people. And so it reflects poorly on his moral character.
And while sometimes the rule of comedy can override everything else, I didn’t find that part funny. So comedically, thematically, and character-wise it didn’t work, at least for me.
@@calebmarmon1310 I hear you, but Lister's loneliness and isolation-abstinence is a running theme in the show and an Achille's Heel for him. He had failed on the temptation front before, like in "Psirens" where he would have lost his life except for luck. Disappointment aside, it was most-believable that Lister would have failed to extricate himself from the Krytie TV situation.
As president of the Royal Society for the Preservation of Pubes I found this reaction extremely biased.
If you were wondering about Kryten's fake beard, there was a prank show in 80's UK called 'Beadle's About' featuring Jeremy Beadle. When it came to the big reveal he would always be wearing a fake beard. Despite the fact he already had a real beard underneath, albeit a short, neat beard.
It really is weird watching this episode again. I've never really rewatched Series 8, because I thought it was weak. Watching it again, especially with you guys, shows just how badly this episode in particular has aged. Sad how a show that actually was quite unique for its diverse cast and great sci-fi ideas injected into the comedy ended up doing an episode with such dodgy broad humour like this. Unfortunately, the Dave era of the show occasionally drops the ball with stuff like this too. I love your considered mature response to it though.
I've never been able to enjoy this episode, even when it was first broadcast. I was something like 12 years old and didn't even really understand what it was I didn't like about it, just knew I cringed through a big chunk of the episode. Now I'm 38 and I like it even less
Humour is subjective for every person, my limits are very few. I enjoy this episode but you guys are so right that the whole "look at these men being animals who can't control themselves" stuff that is still common to this day denigrates us all.
Rob Grant wasn't writing Red Dwarf at this point, he and Doug Naylor had parted ways before series 7 went into production, Doug wrote season 7 with some guest writers and most of season 8 by himself
Ok I just watched all your Red Dwarf reactions yesterday and today. :O Thanks for a fun weekend. :)
There was an already aged reference to prank show Beadle's About which had finished... 3 years earlier? starring Jeremy Beadle, who normally has a short beard.
It was better than that - he used to disguise himself with a "slightly longer beard" too - and would take it off as a "big reveal" but the effect was like Clark Kent taking off his glasses.
Was ridiculous if you ever watch his stuff now.
And a tiny hand lol
You’ve got to remember this was a while ago when attitudes to sexual stuff was different. I find it hilarious and don’t take it too seriously when you bear that in mind
Gals from the dwarf watch Kytie TV yes this episode is very of it's time, remember it's well over two heading towards three decades old. It will probably be the same with programs from now in the next 20/30 years. I mean it's the progress of time and everyone is uniquely different. It's like what I've always been told if you don't like something, watch it by all means but if you get offended by it and don't like it there's a off button simple. It's like doctor who at the moment I'm not a fan but it doesn't mean that everyone's likes me, some do watch it and that up to each and every single individual. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
They got confused here and lost the way. Which is why we told ya be ready to less enthused.
Just waiting for them to get past 'back to earth' and onto season 10 onwards...
It's one of the episodes with some good jokes in it. Not one of the best. Great video ladies, loved your reactions.
The change up in this series of the whole ship and crew being back can be jarring after they have been alone for so long, but it grows on you.
In a way it resets back to the first two series. It's mainly them in a bunk room interacting with one another, occasionally there are other characters involved, but they did that then too, or has monsters, Gelfs, holograms, robots, etc...
It's a reset, but with a fresh angle.
Some good bits in this, but overall, not an episode I liked. I was fourteen when this was released, didn't like it then, don't like it now. It's icky, very icky.
But three more episodes, and it's another end of an era. Series IX is no longer on the BBC, it moves over to the channel Dave. And it was broadcast TEN years later. The last episode of this series aired in April 1999, the next series aired in April 2009.
So, yeah, get ready for another major tonal shift.
And Series IX only consists of three episodes, so you'll whiz through that one. It's sometime not referred to as Series IX (or Series 9) but rather Red Dwarf: Back to Earth. Just in case there is any confusion.
There is still plenty of good Red Dwarf to go. The next one "Back To Earth" is kind of lame. They kind of phoned that one in. But even that one has a few good gags in it.
Once you get into series X, XI, and XII they get back into the swing of things. Maybe not the very best, but pretty good.
Then there is "The Promised Land" which is really good. You finally find out what happened to the cats.
The one thing I've never liked about this one was that she still blamed Lister in the end when he had nothing to do with the recording, actually wanted to fix Kryten, and told her what was going on straight up and right away.
Well, after watching it for 3 hours.
He deserved being blamed for sitting there watching it and "getting a choc-ice", he was rightfully punished for his part in it by Kochanski.
It's worth saying also that Series 8 released in 1999, which was a while ago still sure, but it's not /that/ long ago in the grand scheme of cultural progression. So having episodes like this gets less and less justifiable as a 'product of their time' as the show goes on. It's not like early Doctor Who where every woman is in screaming hysterics at the first sight of an alien, but it was at least in the 60s rather than almost the 2000s.
But this was definitely a big part of the culture in 1999. In fact, COMPARED to American Pie, this episode is slightly better, in that what Kryten does is portrayed as wrong but funny, as opposed to right and clever (if you don't get caught) as in American Pie, and the girl will still love you anyway.
Yeah I think you're underestimating just how much attitudes have changed in 25 years. @Myndir is right that this actually holds up relatively well against modern ethics compared to American Pie, Police Academy and the like.
So you never watched early Dr Who?
@@peterjackson4763 I've watched almost all of classic Who in the last year. The first probably three to four Doctors repeatedly feature one-dimensional damsel depictions for most of the women, screaming and crying at threats or situations, and being dismissed offhand by the males around them. Even Susan, who isn't even a human, gets the same. One of the reasons Sarah-Jane was so beloved was because she brought a fire and defiance against these attitudes, calling out the Doctor to his face(s) for it, or others like Harry who she describes as 'old fashioned' even then.
I enjoy the show a lot still, classic and current, but it shows its age very clearly in a lot of areas, from women to stereotypes and ethnicities, to depictions of indigenous and native cultures. The Doctor even uses the term 'savage' as a term of endearment for Leela, who was depicted as feral and animalistic, and dressed in a leather bikini which the producers openly admitted was designed to keep the 'dads' watching.
@@TheSpectre223 I saw most of them (from the Evil of the Daleks onwards) when first broadcast. It is certainly not true that "every woman is in screaming hysterics at the first sight of an alien". As you mention Sarah Jane generally wasn't, nor Leela. The same applies to Jo, Liz, and Zoe. Victoria did scream a lot - that being how the menaces was defeated in her final story.
Unfortunately modern Dr Who has made greater use of stereotypes. It has to as it usually doesn't have as much time to develop characters outside the main ones.
I don't see how you connect the Doctor calling Leela a savage with attitudes to native and indigenous cultures. She was the descendant of colonists on an otherwise uninhabited planet.
Alright, my personal least favourite. It's always good to get past the absolute worst one. Still, the finale of this season kicks ass imo so I can't really be mad at an obvious dud like this.
What I find so fun about the actor (Graham McTavish) who plays the warden Ackerman is just how ridiculous and over-the-top he is. Every other role I've seen Graham in since the he usually plays rather serious gruff, grim, or dour characters.
That aside and yeah this is the weakest episode of the series. They did try to land on the side of painting the actions of spying on the women as negative rather than something to be cheered on (unlike a lot of 80's and 90's comedies), but it was also still done for a laugh so it didn't land very well in the end.
This episode is tied for my least favourite (the other being "Thanks For the Memories"), for pretty much the same reason you disliked it. The middle section is just morally wrong, and was considered so even when it was first broadcast. I remember people at the time complaining about it, and commenting that jokes like that might be something you could get away with 5 or 10 years [prior]. (in their defence- the only reason Kryten sets up Krytie TV is because violent and possibly insane criminals mess around with his programming)
On a happier note- the schlocky b-movies in the cinema are excellent pastiches, even if they only did produce short clips. "Attack of the Completely Invisible Aliens" is the sort of film that wouldn't look out of place in, say, Ed Wood's filmography
i dont think it was considered offensive when it came out.. more so, it was just bad writing and cheesy... season 1-6 are miles better... i mainly like 7-8 less not cos its offensive but cos its just not as funny
why don't you like "Thanks"? I haven't seen the first 2 series for years, I can't remember much about that episode other than the theme
@@mutate34 I take issue with stories that revolve around altering someone's memories. Gaslighting is still gaslighting, even if you use sufficiently advanced technobabble.
People say season 8 was smmmmmmeeeeeeeeeegggggggggg. I liked this episode😁 made me laugh which is welcomed.
Yeah, It's one of these those episodes. Some people like it, some don't.A bit like Marmite.
Lister, cat and rimmer didn't reprogram Kryten, that was killcrazy and the other canaries. Lister didn't plan to film the women in the showers and it was wrong of Kochanski to accuse him of that. He may have watched it but it was not his idea or his doing.
There is nothing wrong with this episode. yeah what happens is wrong but Lister is honest and open about it.
Kochanski is upset about him "Taking part" as in viewing any of it. He was not part of it or had control over the situation and everyone else. But she is upset he didnt control himself, a breach of trust.
I've just started watching this but I'm gonna take a punt and guess you 2 aren't gonna like this episode very much 😂
This episode leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I know the filming is portrayed as wrong, but Kochanski saying she'd let Lister see her naked if he asked is just awful. There's no way she'd have done that, even if they used to go out. And actually, she didn't go out with him, she went out with another universe's Dave. I don't think there are many people who'd be ok getting naked for a friend if they said it "meant a lot" to them. But even if there are, I don't believe for a second that Kochanski would.
yeah, that line has always sounded weird to me. I think she was just trying to teach him a lesson by implying she'd have considered going back with him if he hadn't watched Kryten's show
I know that some of the subjects covered here are kind of gross but I feel like it's ok to joke about that sort of thing as long as the overall message is a positive one.
British humour tends to be a little on the dark side but that's how we deal with this kind of stuff, by laughing at it.
It's not the worst thing in the world in my opinion but I can see how it might make some people feel uncomfortable..
and so recently we were watching some of the all time best half hours of television... holoship, quarantine, gunmen... and now this. It DOES get better again. Moose gag only a few weeks away now...
Im suprised the girls didnt hear Kryten talking to himself.
"Its womens shower night!"
"Shower night is a pay per view event!"
"Now, im going to stare at a cracked floor tile!"
"Lets get up close and personal with the Christine Kochanski!"
And Kryten wasn't exactly quiet about it.
You mean none of those girls put two and two together?
I took the tension relief as an opportunity to stretch my fingers since I don't think I'd done that after doing my daily drawing practice.
Yeah, this is the episode I mostly think about when I state that S8 is the weakest season. From memory, it's all uphill from here.
(Also, the more I watch your reactions to Red Dwarf, the more I'd encourage you to check out The Brittas Empire. It's got some of that dark comedy that's in the same oeuvre of the guitar string-related gags here and stars Chris Barry. Not a sci-fi or fantasy show - it's a workplace sitcom about a leisure center - so I don't know if you'd want to watch it on the channel or not but I do think you'd get some enjoyment out of it)
Mighty Boosh needs to be on the list
I remember back in the day not rating this episode much, with the exception of the appeal joke which I thought was quite hilarious. Rimmers dedication to the appeal. The sabotaging of Ackermans quarters and clean up was quite funny too.
Fun fact for Kat: when they were outside filming the alien spacecraft model, the Phantom Menace model unit were wheeling the Naboo starfighters to another set.
"...it's MEANT to be this bad."😂
Gotta ask - What up with the "Die" T-shirt!? Are we talking aggression or part of a German title/message?
Excellent post-episode commentary!
What did they say? Red Dwarf movie? There's no movie... but there are books.
Red Dwarf: The Promised Land. Technically a three episode special that was released on DVD as a feature length story.
oookay we've reached THIS episode.... silver lining is the "I'm only HALF LOVELY!" line is me and my friends favourite
I wouldn't usually comment, but I felt compelled to make an exception for... THAT episode.
Well, you were certainly kinder to Krytie TV than I was - or most of the community in Ganymede & Titan, for that matter. I'd still argue that it was dated back in 1999, and I was seriously considering apologising that you had to watch through that if you hadn't somehow found some redeeming qualities in it.
If I might be allowed to offer a VERY minor insight into what to expect going forward:
1) You're over the hump as far as Series 8's more questionable content is concerned - but expect gratuitous filler instead
2) There will be at least one more episode of Red Dwarf that's probably going to be as bad or worse than this (without spoiling anything, think John Cleese boomer takes for a narrative), but you're a long way off that, and I promise it's (mostly) only going to get better - as soon as 8's cleared, anyway
In all seriousness, I honestly commend you for not only making it through that, but identifying a degree of actual merit in it. I'm still not convinced Lister's comeuppance is strong enough to emphasize how wrong it actually is, but I swear to you this one episode is a blip, and after having come this far (and well done for that too, it's been a real journey and I'm glad you got to share it with us all), there's more great stuff to come if you stick with it.
Lots of love and all the best, LLAP
Yay for a fellow G&T reader. And yay too for the content of your comment.
@@theyearsshallrun6641 Glad to make your acquaintance! Do you use the forums by any chance?
Making jokes about not writing to him if he was dead... On the same ship/show where dead people coming back as holograms used to be a major plot point... "It's not the handicap it used to be in the olden days"... Also, building on that, how would THIS Rimmer know about the "Ommm song"?
And why would Lister think it's a classic when he told his younger self it was crap?
@@JackRascal I suspect Red Dwarf doesn't take series 'lore' too seriously. Lister has had appendix removed twice already.
@@alpine_newt Quite right, actually... gags before continuity. I remember they put a joke about the appendix in one of the novels, though someone in these comments pointed out an in-series explanation for it. I can't remember what it was now..... possibly Lister being remade in DNA, maybe?
@@JackRascal that's just denial and self delusion. When he told his younger self he also had an alterior motive wanting him to give up music to invent the tension sheet and become rich. Then again I also stand by the theory that EVERY series of Red Dwarf takes place in a different parallel universe because it's already such an established concept of the show but also explains every continuety error
@@alpine_newt yup. I subscribe to the theory that EVERY series is in its own parallel universe
Your comments are totally valid, and I agree with you, but it is worth remembering when this was made. The prevelance of cameras that everyone has now simply didn't exist back then. This was a cautionary tale related to a small but growing problem, and one that sadly just got worse as the tech improved.
My introduction to Red Dwarf. I had no idea what was going on until 2 years later when I cought Queeg on repeat on UKTV Gold. Took me until 1 year later until this episode came around again and I thought.
Wait a minute... Ive seen this before!
Another quality kitty TV video!
Yeah, this was clearly written in a transitional period, where the writers were sensitive and aware enough to know that this sort of behaviour and attitude is wrong, and they clearly _portrayed_ it as wrong - but they _weren't_ sensitive and aware enough to know that it's not a good thing to joke about in a "Ha ha, guys are such horn-dogs, amiright?" sort of tone.
However, on the side-lines of this, the episode unintentionally has a message that is very relevant _today:_ Kryten clearly identifies as a male, but because he was not built with "the correct physical bits", according to officious bureaucrats, the authorities dictate to him what his gender has to be, and _force_ him to use the facilities of the opposite sex. It's not being classified as a "woman" that's humiliating, it's being callously misgendered by a mindless bureaucracy mired in purely binary thinking.
Thank you for your perspective, the writers were making the guys the butt of the joke not the girls, the writers aren't 'Trump locker room talk' guys
Exactly, these scenes in British comedy like this and Fawlty Towers' "Don't mention ze war" are always made to show the perpetrators as the idiots and always give them some sort of comeuppance at the end.
@@Wickerrman Yes. It wasn't very well executed in the case of this episode however.
Unfortunately without the other main writer, Red Dwarf is only "half lovely!!"
Yep. This was the one people have been warning you about, and now you know why.
The good news is this is the nadir.
It was a different time, humour and attitudes were different you have to understand this was the pre-social media days when I first saw this I never really saw anything offensive about it I thought it was funny at the time i'll be honest and we never really thought about it in the way you gals did but now looking back at it yes it wrong, very questionable and has dated like fine milk when you watch these things you have to look at it in context not in 2024 otherwise it all falls apart doesn't mean you have to agree with it just look at it for what it was.
These writers grew up with shows like Benny Hill (where gags often involved women being in a state of undress), so this is unsurprising. English people just have a different sensibility about sex & nudity than we do in the USA. They have nude beaches and they show nudity on regular television. Even Kochanski's calmer-than-usual reaction demonstrates that, with how she wasn't super angry or traumatized, and she even said that she would have shown Lister her body if he just asked. This episode had a very "Porky's" feel to it, which is a controversial film in the USA, but English people would view Porky's as tame humor. Most of the "Too Hot for TV" commercials also came from The UK and other European countries. I remember a commercial for a game called "Juiced" where even the censored version was banned in the USA because it featured a woman having her clothes removed by "magic" without her consent, but the UK aired the uncensored version of that commercial with little-to-no controversy. My point is that it's important to take different cultures into account in these situations. The writers are just products of their environment / culture.
Fact is though it just is rubbish compared to every previous series. Despite all you say which is true. The Carry On's were often about men's frustrations. I just re-watched MASH as the great Donald Sutherland passed, and it's almost unwatchable with its mysogyny. Red Dwarf always had a bit of lazy humour though - jokes about nationality - insert welsh or polish or Czech or Italian waiters cecks person for this or that. I knew the Glas would hate this and pretty justifiably really.