Bart Ehrman's Personal Beliefs Interview
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- čas přidán 7. 05. 2014
- Bart provided Scott Burdick an opportunity for a short interview about his personal beliefs and religious experiences. Recorded at the FFRF (Freedom From Religion's) Raleigh Regional Convention 2014 conference held in the Sheraton Raleigh Hotel, Raleigh N.C. on May 2-3, 2014. The interview will be part of FFRF and the Dawkins Foundation's Openly Secular coalition campaign. Presented by Triangle Freethought Society.
Video discussed on Bart Ehrman's Foundation Blog: ehrmanblog.org/?p=7323
Bart D. Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He came to UNC in 1988, after four years of teaching at Rutgers University. At UNC he has served as both the Director of Graduate Studies and the Chair of the Department of Religious Studies. A graduate of Wheaton College (Illinois), Professor Ehrman received both his Masters of Divinity and Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary, where his 1985 doctoral dissertation was awarded magna cum laude.
Copyright © Bart D. Ehrman and Scott Burdick. All Rights Reserved. Unauthorized use, re-posting and/or duplication of this video without express and written permission from Bart D. Ehrman and Scott Burdick is strictly prohibited.
I'm a Muslim but I really enjoy listening to your lectures and find them very thoughtful and inspiring.
Also I like the way you label yourself as both athiest and agnostic...I think it reflects that despite everything you have been through you remain humble in your understanding of the greater world we live in.
Respect to you, sir!
Not even Christian's can hate this guy. Just shows you that hes sincere and not just doing this for money or something.
I can respect him because he doesn't bash believers and name call.
Leave that to me I will bash them . I enjoy to make them waste there time and run in circles trying to convert me and save me
Only Jesus can save !! Not any of "us Christians"
@@timsharpe6652 He couldn't do it on my salary!
@@easterbuny2226 You do know the difference between "their" and "there", right? Honestly, that drives me up the wall.
@@Thagomizer Goodness,you meen their is a difference ?
Ahhh someone else looking into the reason for suffering. Thank you for your work 🙏.
That's because you still carnal.
You can only see things by means of the flesh.
You cannot see in the realm of the spirit.
@Jose Lozano
I like how Christians think that if they say something, no matter how intrinsically meaningless, in an authoritative, judgmental and pretentious way, somehow what they have said is important or insightful.
Philosophically, if there's suffering in the world, it doesn't mean GOD doesn't exist but you could say, "why God allows suffering to his creation? / is that a merciful God? Etc"
If someone's father is a wealthy man but he is suffering , it doesn't mean his father doesn't exist.
If a machine is not working properly, that does not mean the machine has no creator.
An honest man will be an honest man no matter what he/she it believe...
Omg. When I hear this guy's story, I just wonder, am I on my way to becoming an agnostic? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thank you Dr. Bart, for your candor. The problem of suffering is what did it for me. When the proverbial rug is pulled out from under your feet, your head hurts for a while. Kudos sir.
This always mind-boggled me and even strengthened my faith in God. Athiests stop believing in God because suffering exists. Athiests believe life came into existence by some random chance, therefore we are a result of a mix of chemicals, so once we die we are not much different from a dead slaughtered lamb ready to be cooked. So once we die we are no different than a dead lamb that is devoured by a normal family. So my question is where does this emotion, at being upset at world suffering, come from? If we are a mix of chemicals and put ZERO effort in order to obtain our brains, eyes, ears, mouths, hands feet etc. then why are we upset when these are compromised via some sort of suffering? It honestly feels like a double standard contradiction. Meaning you ignore the logic when it doesnt fulfill your agenda ( athiests ignore the search for where these emotions such as hate fear and love come from and also ignore the fact that they put ZERO effort to land on Earth BUT then when these GIFTS are compromised they use that as a reason for not believing in God). For a basic anology its like a child recieves glasses from his parents so he can see and then his parents take the glasses away. So now he stops believing that they are his parents because if they were they wouldnt torcher him/her.
and dont even get me started with the concept of morality with an athiest. There really should be no morality empirically or scientifically because we are just a mix of chemicals with an expiration date so why do morals even matter?
Jerry, I am sorry to hear about your decision. Suffering does affect us very deeply. I don't know what your went through to arrive at your decision. It is true that the world is full of very deep suffering. I think about this problem a lot myself.
Does this mean that God doesn't exist?
Logically no. Emotionally yes and no.
Bart's personal tragedy pushed him toward the No.
Job's personal tragedy in Scripture pushed him toward the Yes.
Suffering is mostly an emotional problem. A very real and difficult one.
I have two best friends who experienced a very deep personal loss of their babies. Unimaginable pain. Yet, they are more committed to the Lord Jesus Christ than ever.
Why? Because Jesus is the the only answer & hope to the problem of evil and suffering.
I personally think that the very presence of evil is very strong evidence for God's existence.
I also think logically is very easy to conclude that God exists.
Suffering and injustice cry out for healing and justice. God is big enough to provide ultimate healing and justice. Hitler and Stalin, the rapist and murderer, the gossiper and drug dealer, the liar and hater etc. will not get away. They will get justice and condemnation.
Likewise those who received injustice and malevolence, but put their trust in Christ Jesus will be given healing and justice.
God bless you richly.
@@presleymaddox Ehrmanites cannot understand because their ears are blocked and their eyes are dimmed.
That is why they cannot understand that at the end of the Sixth Day of Creation Earth was a perfect place to live. Warm, moist, fertile with masses of food for an unbelievable variety of creatures.
Satan then ruined the perfection by uttering the first lie and making Eve and Adam sin.
GOD then gave Satan 6,000 years to try run Earth and make it the Paradise intended.
He has failed badly and now intends to coerce all people to converge on Armageddon for a great awaful battle that will kill all souls before they can know GOD.
GOD so loved the world that He sent His son to tell the truth and teach how to escape Satan's plan.
Ehrman is part of Satan's plan along with Dawkins, Hawlking, Hitchen and so many others who sneer at the Bible and believe themselves evolved from monkeys.
God is allowing his elect to endure a tiny amount of the effects of sin as an eternal lesson plan that will benefit us far beyond this puff of smoke we call life. It's not about life it's about eternity.
I can relate to him. One of the most honest man i know.
So, you understand the things on the material and carnal things only.
Like Bart, you cannot receive the things of the Spirit.
@@Iampowerful8 That's an incredibly arrogant thing to assume. Who are you to accuse someone of not "receiving things of the spirit" when you don't even know the persons you're addressing?
I have followed this man for years...he is incredibly knowledgeable and knows the subject better than anyone. I couldn't listen to his all day
Everyone in this comment section heard "You're going to hell if you don't accept Jesus Christ" from Christians
Yes brother I am Muslim and accept Jesus is prophet and servant of God
@@faithfultheology you're *
@@abduschowdhury4886 No Jesus Christ is God. He was in the beginning and is and will come.
@@mikecampbell5953 The re-telling of the ancient virgin birth, death and resurrection story does not make J.C real ...... just like his predecessors in the same story were not. No one is coming.
+ Peter Foote, thank you for your kind comment.God bless you.
I appreciate the different perspectives voiced here.
It is amazing to me how intelligent people can all reach different conclusions. It’s one of the great riddles of life.
As a child I was raised Catholic, and I thought about the problem of suffering from a young age. I vividly remember hearing more than one homily discussing about people losing their faith over this issue, such as after watching a loved one die painfully or contemplating the state of the world.
As a child, I remember being able to reconcile this issue in my heart despite that seeming horrible, logically. I don’t know if it was due to naïveté, but I can still reach a state of equanimity and deep spiritual understanding on this issue in my most peaceful and spiritual moments.
I had a lot of doubts from as young as around the time of my first communion, or even earlier, though it doesn’t seem possible. However there were a great many things I liked and could accept, especially moral teachings and emphasis on family values - I couldn’t have asked for a better church overall experience as a child despite my doubts.
I became insatiably curious about other religions, and while I was young and healthy I could easily go to a place in my mind where there didn’t have to be a God or anything beyond the physical and life still seemed beautiful and full of meaning. For at least 20 years I explored other religions from an agnostic view. My agnosticism stemmed from the logical need to be a pluralist about religion, because I really feel a lot of power and truth coming from other religions.
I realized at some point that I had better learn a little bit more about Jesus and the bible and Christian faith, and I have been exploring this for a few years now. This mainly amounts to praying, reading the bible and visiting a different church almost every Sunday. I still continue to practice many other things from other spiritual paths and hold on to many teachings that I have studied and practiced along the way.
I can get very turned off of the Jesus people, and catholic mass is incredibly boring. Anglicanism is quite good but it’s almost exclusively old people and the PC vibe can get insufferable.
All this being said, I have developed this incredible relationship with Jesus, and affinity for his teachings. I have had some very significant spiritual moments reading scripture and in church.
I don’t know where all of this is taking me. I have also listened to and read about hundreds of NDE accounts. The testimonies really point towards the good of any and all religions being a beautiful thing, and the highest truth we have access to, but not one specific real true religion, and definitely not the idea that in our natural state we are sinners or inherently foul creatures.
Can’t wait to read this guy’s books.
Have you had experiences with the 1111? I consider myself an agnostic atheist like Bart but I've had some weird coincidences bordering on what it feels like to be supernatural with that number.
NDEs and the concentrated study of them during nursing school and for years afterward (on and off) has me believing in a higher power that set us up with some circumstances and who mostly does not intervene (otherwise, how would we learn?) but who nevertheless is there to receive us when we transition out of the earthly plane. I am enjoy Dr. Erhman's lectures immensely. I do not believe in The Trinity nor the infallibility of the Bible (plus there are many poor translations) and do not care for the way it has been twisted for certain agendas. Nevertheless there is a great deal of wisdom in The Good Book and I enjoy reading it o occasion.
What do you personally think about Jesus?
Very sympathetic guy - I am surprised! All 10 points for him from Germany!
Great video! Love Dr. Ehrman's work as well as his debates!
I am sitting patiently waiting for a knock on my door. The courier should be arriving shortly with Forged. I just can't wait to read it!
Its been 5 years have you read it?
The truth shall set you free !
Having read several of his books I agree totally with his view of the Bible and in particular the Gospels. Personally I do believe there is a creator and that we are all part of the creator's energy. I also believe that the teachings of the great masters are far more important than the 'what can I get out of it' philosophy which seems to characterize traditional religious dogma. It's almost as if the teachings of Christ ,Moses, Mohamed, Krishna and Buddha are a nuisance to their most fanatical followers.
I respect Bart for being an objective scholar. He simply lays out the facts and it is for people with eyes, ears, intellect, and heart to decipher.
Thank you Bart. You have helped me understand the very foundation of fabricated Christianity.
I don't get why people have such a hard time with the word agnostic. It is both a noun and an adjective. You can be an agnostic (noun). You can also be an agnostic (adj.) atheist.
"I don't believe it, so I'm an atheist; but I don't know, so I'm an agnostic". Actually makes a "hell" of a lot of sense.
I'm actually a Christian and I love this guy. (Though, a lot of Christians tell me I'm going to Hell, so I must not be a very good one. =P )
Ehrman is one of my favorite authors.
That would depend on your definition of "born again," my friend. If you mean a fundamentalist Christian, then no, I am not.
But then I would ask, what do you define as being "born again"? I believe in God and Christ. If, by being born again, you mean belonging to a specific congregation that calls itself "born again," then I guess I wouldn`t fit into the category you`ve provided.
Michael, do you give to the poor? Do you love your enemies?
I love this about Bart! I am not a Christian, but I really appreciate the way he actively works to provide knowledge and understanding about the bible and the history of Christianity without ever insulting anyone (besides ocassional comments about fundamentalist Christians).
A lot of public atheists like to try to claim that Christians are all uneducated idiots. Even though I'm not a Christian, I do find that claim offensive because I come from a Christian family, and my Christian parents are definitely not idiots.
Spencer Pennington my dear friend you're not going to go to hell is the scary technique Christianity use opposite way believe in the Lord God of Israel only him be good and he will give you salvation read the Old Testament the true Testament the only Testament by God and you will have salvation if you want more info let me know I prove this to you may the Lord God of Israel bless you my friend
From a young age, I have always questioned the bible as it always seemed to contradict itself in many ways. I was never any good at explaining the questions I had. Bart is an absolute legend in my eyes. He explain this stuff so well and love listening to some of his lectures. If more people thought like this man, there would be much less suffering simply because there is much more understanding. It's a shame mankind has developed to be a 'not so smart' species. Let's be honest mankind has many flaws. Lack of intellect, greed and fear has ruined the world. Anyway I would like to thank Bart for his intellect and open minded work over the years and thank him again for sharing it. But I also don't believe all this is random. I do believe in life after death. Another legend I listen is Thomas Campbell. He wrote 'My Big Toe'. I believe in much that he talks about.
Matthew Tomlins Yeah Campbell is awesome
Dr. Ehrman has lent me a great and revelatory understanding of the origins of the N.T., and the genesis of Christianity. I have a great appreciation for his profound knowledge, perspective and objectivity. There are many mislead and misinformed Christians who would no doubt also abandon their faith were they to know and understand the origins of the Bible and of their religion as Bart Ehrman does (though Bart has made it clear that he has lost his faith on a different issue).
Why wouldn't they abandon their faith if they knew and understood the origins of the Bible as Bart Ehrman does? In what way do you mean they are misinformed?
Great stuff as always. Never disappointing.
Churches are franchises. Like KFC. Truth is not a very hot product to sell. What people want to hear, and a very simple and smooth path is what sells. It must not take too much effort, not demand that people give too much up. So to teach people that they must believe in a mantra and that will give them an (unearned) moral superiority over others (get rich quick, become holy instantly... same method) is what sells. Add flashy marketing material, impressive sounding programs and they are in business and rake in the money.
I'm an agnostic scholar of Mormonism; Turns out, this is a very easy pursuit!
"I'm not evangelistic as an agnostic." I literally laughed out loud when he said that.
Barely Protestant made perfect sense to me
@@myfriend280 not if you know him at all.
I think he just meant that he doesn’t have a proselytizing mindset nowadays.
I would disagree with Bart. He's quite evangelistic with his skepticism. He wrote so many books and gave so many talks against Jesus and the Bible.
A lot of effort went into writing and by extension destroying people's trust in the Scripture and Jesus.
Satan used a similar strategy "has God truly said?"
"By their fruits you will judge them"
Actions do speak louder than words!
@@ambassador_in_training Hi Alexandra, Glad to see you tell the truth of Erhman selling his soul to Satan!
So many people listen to him which is Satan's plan the same as with Hawking, Dawkins, Hitchens and all those others who deny Biblical truth.
After reading and listened to Dr. Ehrman It is clear why they refer to ones religion as your faith.
Brilliant definition of the Agnostic/Atheist positions.
Never heard it put so fluently before.
Couldn't have said it better. I call myself an agnostic but he nailed the description on how I view it. I've noticed I don't like to say atheist around a lot of people because they're automatically assuming I'm saying a direct statement about there not being a god even though it's lacking a belief in one. I really don't know.
Every Christian and atheist needs to listen to this guy. Brilliant
+Kyle McLaren Was it a Honda's advice ?
Phoenix Algerian I'm not entirely sure what that means, but yes
Kyle McLaren it's an F1 reference, just forget it, cheers.
haha sorry, mate. I was a bit slow on that one. Cheers!
Unless I'm mistaken, I think most scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed. The claims are obviously refuted.
Meanwhile there are also different slants on what gnosis is. Is it merely what we commonly mean in English by "knowledge"? Or is it more like the sense of experience of the Divine that the Medieval saints might have called religious ecstacy? I would argue that it's possible to be both gnostic and atheistic (because there's no real need to connect what saints and prophets have experienced with some physical Creator or ruling god...or any god at all). I suppose this is more of an eastern variation...exultant meditation without divinity involvement.
all of my audio's on my channel are devotional and Christian, but Dr. Ehrman's lectures (and book) Lost Christianities helped me by providing a new perspective on my own religious development in that what was forwarded was a fragmented as opposed to a singular beginning to Christianity greatly helped me to un-learn my own personal religious journey. I fail, thusly, to see how this video, indeed any of Dr. Ehrman's works, can further the agenda of Richard Dawkins, who essentially wants religion as a whole wiped off the face of the earth. There cannot possibly be any legitimacy to such an argument. Thank you.
+mikeyboy222 oh yes there can. much more legitimate then talking burning bushes, people living in a whale and virgin births.
I love Bart Ehrman, have followed him, bought his books, and so appreciate all his studies that have blessed me. I dont agree with all he says, but still love him. I mean I have God's love for him.
In his book God's Problem, his love for the human race is clear.
I've learned so much from him. His talks on the trinity are just what is needed right now. .
I believe the Bible is true.
GOD let it come to us humans with enough information to save us. He gave it to us through erring humans. The Call of Abraham is an account that made me cry for joy...learning how GOD began his human journey to the manger.
Amazing.
If human errors are found in the written account of what GOD said...it is understandable...since also his ancestors were erring. He descended from David an adulterer and murderer.
How wonderful our GOD who works with what he has to bring forth his will.
The story of Joseoh in Genesis is a perfect example of how GOD works. Through a bunch of wrongdoers, he saved many people alive. What a GOD!
GOD is not Jesus.
Ehrman works for Satan.
Prof bart confirmed what the Quran mentionned more than 1400 years ago (Jesus peace be upon Him not claiming to be God, the bible being falsified by humans..) its as simple as that.
@@mbarnabeus but quran also proves that Allah is satan and Mohammad is prophet of satan..what about that? And there are many mistakes in his studies which also proves that he made his books to make himself famous and get rich. He is exposed now.
Try read quran if you time..you lose nothing by looking at other scriptures as well..
I believe: women can become pregnant and give birth at 100, donkeys bushes snakes speak, Jesus is god so immortal yet he still died.
It is morally just to have Adam eve make us become born in sin so hell Is default unless we repent, that's why evil beings like ted bundy the serial killer is in heaven as he repented before execution and many of his victims are burning in hell as they never repented
I submit to you Dr, Ehrman that you are a agnostic atheist.
*****
Many reasons. For one it's more intellectually honest. For another, once someone realizes then it clarifies what they truly think about many, many issues.
*****
I think he says he is an agnostic.
*****
Ha! Very good. Thank you for correct me!! Ehrman does get it!
he is a comedian.
Honest of him. Most people believe a religion because it's their family tradition or because they find it comforting. But the more you question and study, especially the origins of the Bible and early christianity, the harder it is to see any logical reason to believe it. I would like to still have the kind of comforting simple beliefs I had as a kid, but can't make myself believe. Plus what most Christians believe these days in my country of origin, the UK, isn't even what the early Christians actually believed. They were waiting for Jesus to fly down from Heaven on clouds and raise the dead into new immortal bodies. And they expected it to happen soon.
A man searching for the TRUTH and getting a whole lot closer than most people could ever do.
Haha! I'm an Agnostic Gnostic! Checkmate:D
I can relate to this. I love listening to him.
Re (3:30-3:44): “agnosticism = epistemology”; “atheism = belief”, I typed out the quote in full and commented on this here:
www.eoht.info/page/Bart+Ehrman
Ehrman (2014) is an “agnostic-atheist amortalist historical-Christist”, categorically.
www.eoht.info/page/Atheism+types+by+denial+and+belief
It takes a great deal of mental effort (research) to go from “historical Christist” to hard “a-Christist”. No doubt 2,000-years ago, there were “historical Horus-ists” debating “a-Horus-ists” on whether or not an actual historical Horus existed.
Danny Wilten What did the 200k victims of the 2004 tsunami learn?
philster611 Jesus approves this message.
The victims are dead and should be left in peace. As for the living, we should have leant that man should stop messing up with Nature or God's Creation by destroying mangroves to put artificial beaches in place to make money.
Fredinotmercurybut
The tsunami had nothing to do with people messing up nature - It was a pure act of God's will - Pretty nasty vicious God, isn't it.....
Fredinotmercurybut How will not constructing artificial beaches stop the underwater earthquakes that cause tsunamis?
Too much water sucks. 😞
Great Professor!!
Professor Ehrman is an open honest scholar of scripture, whether or not you agree or disagree with his conclusions,. he is obviously well schooled and credentialed. After listening to many of his lectures and debates, as well as the books he has written, I feel that he challenges one to really read the scriptures for themselves and to ask the difficult questions. There are beyond a doubt many conflicting themes and contradicting stories within the scriptures that demand an explanation, and yet there is no logical explanation. Human suffering is probably the deal breaker for many. It is beyond comprehension that a loving and merciful god would create humanity with supposed free will and yet punish us collectively for things that he hard wired us to be and to do. Please do not quote scriptures to explain this because for every scripture quoted there is another scripture that will contradict it.
+kimberly. You are so well spoken and rational about this topic ... just plain old common sense reasoning. I love it.
RamZ Thank you, I try to keep an open mind and my comments fair and balanced :-)
Regards,
Kimberly
Well said. Since this is a prime battle ground for ego-to-ego conflict, there is endless argumentation. If this were spirit-to-spirit, there would be no book, no theologies, and no argumentation, just the very thing the Book is pointing to -> peace.
But since we don't have the latter, Bart's work helps us to THINK past our entrenched positions.
kimberly naranjo yes I agree. While searching for truth I've found he is best for true history
Name one contradiction in the Bible that has not been given a reasonable logical explanation to show the contradiction is due to either a mistranslation or a lack of understanding. Just one. Give it your best shot.
Warning, I've been doing this for as many years as Bart, maybe more and I have NEVER had one person give me a contradiction that has not been refuted by scholars.....not one.
Would i be right or wrong in thinking that a true Agnostic should necessarily think that the existence of a higher power is a 50/50 proposition? Indeed, if not 50/50 then what would the ratio be? Whatever the value, that would be a "knowledge" claim.
It should also be pointed out that, while an Atheist cannot falsify a Deistic God, it is very easy to falsify all Theistic gods. Ergo an Atheist is not operating on "belief" unless he/she also claims to be Adeistic.
I had a similar view to the problem of suffering before getting chronically ill. I think if you are going to say God, if he exists, isn’t worthy of belief due to human suffering...what about people? We should start out condemning what is visible before going to the invisible which is more speculative. When you are chronically ill, in the vast majority of cases, most people, friends, family, abandon you.
Most people simply don’t care about suffering and anyone who hasn’t strove to help suffering people lacks moral authority to condemn anyone else, whether God or another person, for suffering’s existence.
That's very interesting and very sad to hear. People aren't what we're meant to be.
On the other hand, if God is real (I believe He is), He is responsible for everything good in life, and arguably also for everything bad. I always wonder, even in the case of someone who dies young, why did they deserve to smell flowers, love, see the stars, feel anything at all, and even find growth in suffering? This is the overlooked part of the problem of evil: the problem of good. I suppose that the solution could be saying it's all random and what we call good and bad are arbitrary. On the other hand, if there's a good, sovereign God, then His plan is at least complex, and the definition of goodness is not necessarily defined by minimal suffering, as displayed on the cross. God and Jesus suffered in that, and in doing so displayed the purpose of humanity in lieu of suffering and pain. I guess if goodness is limited to preventing others' suffering, that'd be short sighted and easily fulfilled with the advent of technology and new social theories, which don't mend the need for purpose in our hearts.
My faith is strengthened by the works of researchers like Bart Ehrman and James Tabor. My family was atheist but I have had some personal experiences that I believe prove there is God. So I want to know more. Much of religion is man made, I think, but it is based on a reality that connects our tangible world with the spiritual world. I believe there are times when natural laws in the natural world are miraculously set aside. I do not understand why these occurrences are rare. I have suffered a great deal in life and have devoted a lot of my activities in trying to alleviate suffering in this world. I continue to seek an understanding of the miraculous which I believe comes from God. By stripping away the invented parts of religion I think we can get closer to understanding a very basic and personal relationship with God and the other side. Just my opinion.
I like Bart Ehrman. Soft spoken and honest man. I haven't read his materials (I've only seen him talk), but to me it doesn't seem like he's trying to undercut peoples faith perse. It seems like he's trying to present the evidence and make people look at the different implications of it. (Some which clash with religious views on the transmission of the Bible.) Which I kinda think you could almost call biblical. "I would not have you Ignorant brethren" was a frequent sentiment of the apostle Paul. Bart might be an Apostate, but at least he's honest enough to tell you he's an apostate... Unlike many who stand behind a pulpit, have the audacity to tell you they believe in "the inerrancy of scripture", and proceed to correct some book they have in as many places as they can.
I agree partially with you. I actually think that he is quite smart but he has failed to present the full truth of his findings. Instead he is highlighting one side of an argument and withholding the rest.
As a Christian, I always thought the question "Why is there suffering in the world, if God is good, willing, and able?" was easy to answer. It's strange how Ehrman couldn't find an answer that suited him.
My answer: because God is just, and because humankind chose to sin, evil entered the world. If there were no evil in the world, there would be no choice of good vs evil. If we have no choice then He would be taking away our freewill. Which is not just or good for humans.
So, He rightly gave us a choice, and suffering exists because of our choices.
I like the idea told by Jordan Peterson (in my own lame words) that moving toward good is better than being at the state of good itself. And likewise, moving toward evil, is worse than being evil. Through life, we are always moving up or down, ebbing and flowing. It's never a single choice and then you're done, because youre never done. So, making good choices can be seen as more positive than only needing to make one good choice.
What Bart Ehrman said was obviously a simplification of a complex issue. It's not that he just asked that one question then couldn't think of a response. Being able to come up with some response is not the real issue here, the problem with the church/christianity historically is that because they're dealing with supernatural claims they can literally make anything up with no way for people to scrutinise, challenge or investigate their claims. Ehrman is a biblical scholar, he knows how much of the christian doctrine has been influenced by ancient mythology. There's a lot more to this than you realise. For example, you said humankind "chose to sin", I assume you're referring to Adam and Eve, which already says a lot. You actually think Adam and Eve were real people, and I hope this doesn't sound like an attack, but that already reveals how deep your indoctrination has gone. I'm sorry, but it's time to grow up. There's so much knowledge out there, watch some of Ehrman's lectures if you haven't already, or listen to other speakers like Christopher Hitchens and Matt Dilahunty. I know we all grow up in our bubbles, but with such easy access to information these days, there's hardly any excuse anymore for that kind of ignorance. If you'd like some recommendations I'd be happy to point you in the right direction. All the best.
Evil exists beacuse GOD told Satan he coudl have 6,000 years to try make Earth and humans as perfect as things were at the end of the Six Days of Creation.
@Bart What's your definition of God (the one whom you're not sure existed / existing) and God (the one you're pretty sure doesn't exist) ?
well... if you can be an agnostic atheist I guess I can be an agnostic believer
JeTc Jordan Peterson 😉
Yep, u can
I'd argue that everyone is agnostic - it's just a question of whether you admit it or not!
Actually yeah you can. Agnostic-theism
“I believe in the existence of a god(s), i don’t claim to know for certain this god exists.”
So Bart is what is called an agnostic atheist, meaning he does not believe in god but doesn't say with authority that there is no god. That is the position of myself and most.atheists.
I once tried to guestimate how many Atheists I know and arrived at arround the 2000 mark (on and offline). Of those 2000-ish Atheists, a grand total of ... two ... were gnostic Atheists. all the others were, as you said, agnostic Atheists.
james.. some prick told me im wrong about the original king james bible and gave me a link to a discussion of how the "new" version is stupid. and im watching this video saying... so a agnostic humanist is qualified to change the bible?
Da420Milkman Do you think Bart Ehrman changed the Bible?
Alan S. No. I do not believe that a theistic, personal god is possible. All it means by being agnostic atheist is simply that I realise that I have no concrete evidence to make the claim that there is are no gods. Odd that we atheists can acknowledge the limitations of what we can and cannot know with certainty but you never hear from any "agnostic theists", which has to be the case for all theists because if you had concrete evidence that would prove a god exists atheists would no longer exist.
No Atheism is separate from Agnosticism. What you are doing is word play. Atheism is a disbelief in God. Agnosticism is a complete unsurety in the existence of God, not a disbelief.
Voice and speaking style very similar to Michael Shermer. They also have very similar histories as reformed fundamentalist christians
How can one be objective in religous studies & analysis if one is not agnostic?
If they're being g honest with themselves they can't. That's why the best ones are secular.
Alhamdulillah Bart D. Ehrman's knowledge and honesty are showing. And, that is a good thing. Both the old and new testaments have been altered by men and the bible is not what it is presented to be. Much appreciation for his work in sharing this important information.
Muslims worship Satan's idol called 'allah' in Mecca.
Danny Wilten
Okay, I get the idea of parents teaching their children lessons through tough love, but casting your children into an eternity of suffering in the depths of hell seems a bit much...
No really though, that's one explanation, but what about all of the innocent that suffer? What about the starving children?
my opinion is that Bart learned the bible, studied and looked for God and couldn't find God, Bart looked at everything on history and everything he could find but it didn't ad up, I'm not as smart as Bart but i watched many of his video's looking to find God, Jesus , from a stand point of a professional and this is what all the logic is pointing to , and I'm disappointed that this is what it looks like it might be, i want a true God just like everyone but this is all i see, i hope there is an afterlife for all of us but i can't find God either
Open and honest. Thank you Mr Ehrman for all your scholarly work.
I'm a 'I don't know and neither do you-ist'.
Thank you Harlan Ellison (RE; Dreams with sharp teeth).
blob darkass I hear ya.
I don't believe the sun will rise tomorrow,.. ... but I do know the sun will rise tomorrow, lol.
***** LOL! Good point,.. ... smart ass.
***** Humor and music. I agree.
Speak for yourself. I'm really sure I know. The nonexistence of the Christian god is proved for anyone who understands simple science and history.
I don't share his belief, but find his work useful . Thanks for this vid
You mean non-belief? lol
Mr.Bart You have done these studies you have knowledge about new Testament do you believe is Jesus still alive ? as you now this is year AD .
+Allen Christy He no longer believes in the afterlife, so the answer would be no.
In philosophy 'agnostic' is used simply to mean someone who doesn't take a position on the question of God's existence, and atheist is someone who doesn't believe in his existence, the question of knowledge seems to me irrelevant. So calling oneself an agnostic atheist is too confusing and unnecessary imo.
Yes, but the internet has produced an entire encyclopedia of opinion on the meaning of agnosticism and atheism. I just keep it at atheist. I feel silly calling myself an agnostic. This may seem sophomoric, but I truly do believe the likelihood of unicorns or other mythological creatures existing somewhere in the universe is equal to the likelihood of deities existing somewhere. Both are man-made ideas. I'm not that arrogant to presume our species is capable of inventing something whole cloth like that and have any degree of accuracy. I agree with agnosticism being relative to epistemology, however, I feel agnosticism needs to be kept within reasonable limits. I really don't see that amongst the typical agnostic. I think their position is as equally untenable as most theists.
As a Christian (Fundamentalist), I would say I like Bart Ehrman. I enjoy his books, am subscribed to his blog, and agree with some of his concluding statements about Pastors in this video.
Then you sound like a Moderate in your "type/manner of thinking" - you exhibit a much greater harmony and balancing of applied thought.
A fundamentalist has little room for empathy with those whom have different opinions -
I'm a Christian, a Moderate - and much more Spiritual in my idea of the subject of God - Jesus and our Souls -
I feel the Gnostic Texts have much more authentic messages than those approved by 4th Century Constatine Priests -
...and I'm Catholic - although I suppose I would be called a more Gnostic Catholic in search of a Church where I could learn and practice "my Faith"
Peace be with you -
The reason why those *tent revival faith healers* always RAILED against the 'higher criticism', is that when you learn _TOO_ much, it'll "wreck your faith" L O L ! ! !
Bart is a fine scholar and I respect his position as an agnostic. His comments about epistemology (what you know) and belief are important to understand the difference between a scientific/historical perspective vs. a belief perspective. Many believers look for simple answers to problems and they then become simplistic and miss the point when trying to force a blend between knowledge and belief, e.g. The Truth Project. It is a pity that Bart had formed a fundamentalist belief that "God is in control of the world." Even the Genesis account indicates that God gave humans dominion over the earth. There are no simple answers to suffering but perhaps the Buddhists have it right. We need to stop clinging to our attachments. One attachment is that God is in control of the world. The world has suffering. We need to face it and deal with it.
I have wondered about Mr. Ehrman and I'm relieved that he has made his position clear. I agree with his approach to end the delusion of the immaterial/supernatural realm. Education is the only sure way of advancing critical thinking to a point where we can truly understand our place in the universe. GROG
At least I find Bart very honest (based on his knowledge of bible, biblical history and history of early Christianity) and he does not peddle things he knows NOT to be true to lead people into delusion. I respect such honest scholars.
Mr. Bart D. Ehrman, keep researching it.
He's a Dr
It's reassuring to hear someone be 'agnostic' and 'humanist' yet was a Christian. He says he was a 'fundamentalist' but from 1:00 to 3:30 - I could answer most of these questions. Surely the question of 'suffering' is answered by Jesus's death on the cross? and in basic theology on the consequence of sin??
Also, you can read an original bible (with its translation) at www.codexsinaiticus.org - and guess what? It's still the same as the Bible today.
What's ironic is that most atheists I know were the most devout. I now understand. Most do not know nor care what they believe but some want to know more - Jesus, origins, texts. And all those nagging questions: What about all the prophecies of an imminent return, why did Jesus need a religion, why reveal salvation to a tiny desert tribe, Why did the first writer (Paul) know nothing about Jesus - virgin birth, baptism, miracle or parable? Why don't miracles occur anymore?
It starts peeling away - discarding OT myths (talking animals, Eden, flood, etc) then NT miracles (floating away, turning water to wine, walking on water, etc) then the idea that the Bible is without error then....
Mr. Bart D. Ehrman
I think it is useless to talk to these people, because they have closed minds. And you, however, have an open mind, and so I recommend that you work on your personal spiritual development. Best Regards. :)
"... Useless to talk to these people, because thy have closed minds"? Wow, you seem to have the closed mind, Edib... at least Bart is willing to dialogue with evangelical scholars about these matters.
Streets of Vancouver
With closed minds, it is needless to waste time.
Nor you with me, nor Mr. Ehram with them. ;)
Your vacuous bravado is banal....
Streets of Vancouver
First of all, you need to understand that there are no _"evangelical scientists"_. Among evangelicals (and in general among Christians) may exist only people well trained in the sweet-but, unwilling to understand reality. Christianity is on his knees, and scientifically and morally! And if you interfere with my views, you simply ignore them. Best regards
he doesn’t believe in the super natural as far as I can gather so why would he work on his spiritual development?
Christianity is coercion. Threatening to torture people with fire because they don't believe in you is not giving somebody a free will choice. If I put a gun to your head and demand you love you me that is not free will.
Tenak Talk channel explains.
Atheism is the understanding that no amount of conjuring and spell-casting of theists will actually influence an invisible boss man in the sky to make an exception to the laws of physics. It doesn't matter whether there is actually a deity or not.
ehrman problem is he never touch with the spiritual being around us. his problem is also about books, texts and his only brain. he talks about religion, he studied about religion, but he lack of the core of the religion itself, that is a spiritual being who made this things become a religion. so its imbalance.
duno why likely i can feel unhappiness inside his eyes.
Bart is afraid to debate Dr. Reverend C. Diggs, and Dr. D. Wood.
Beug Auen: I appreciate your point. But is his perspective really a "problem?" He has a perspective, as do you and I. Do all perspectives need to be 'balanced' with their opposites? I hope to learn from his perspective (and yours), while I make up my own mind. Thanks for sharing yours.
You may perceive what many of us miss. You say you see a sadness in Dr. Ehrman's eyes. Might it be because he has become spiritually disconnected?
Your comment reminds me of the story of Charles Templeton who was a young evangelist working with Billy Graham. Some thought Templeton might have been more gifted than Graham. But Templeton questioned the basis of his faith and sought to strengthen that basis by more formal training - theological studies at accredited universities. It backfired and left him in doubt. To the end of his life he missed the Jesus he once knew.
Maybe that's what you see in Ehrman, that he misses the Jesus he once knew. I don't know whether Templeton ever found the faith he once had, but Ehrman has the opportunity now.
Hi, Bart.
I'd like to address suffering. There are two types of suffering, in my opinion.
The first type is the suffering that is caused by transgression, i.e. By people who choose to cause you harm.
The second kind of suffering is the suffering caused by life trials, like diseases and disasters.
As for the first type, it is due to the free-will that people are given; People can choose to harm, and they can choose to benefit. I don't see how someone choosing to cause me harm a proof that a creator doesn't exist. We can, instead, ask why we people are given free-will. We may or may not get to know the reason.
Suffering from trials, which is the second type, is a part of life. Diseases caused by infections are caused by organisms that take part in the ecosystem which is important to lives on earth. Also, disasters like volcanoes allow the earth to neutralize the increased pressure from within it; which is important for the stability of the earth.
There might be more wisdoms that we're not aware of.
"why there are suffering in the world if the god were in control" thats was the main question everybody who believe in god will be asking regardles of what their religion is. I am too asking the same question before.
So here for the people who are still asking the same question and want to try listen to one explanation. You can decide it by yourself after watching. Amd i really hope bert erhman also got to see this and respond on it. Because i know he is a knowledgeable person and i just want to know what his take on the lecture about why we suffer in this world if god were in control.
Go search "The purpose of life by jeffrey lang" on youtube.
Every atheist is agnostic atheist, am I wrong?
Your pretty much correct on that statement yes (though some claim to be gnostic-atheists)
My books this seems to be the rules
Divinity? from the word Divine. However, Divine usually refer to GOD. So I am curious how can you be a Master in Divinity if you self proclaim, you did not believe there is a GOD.
Probably the same way I can read a lot of books about Tigers, be able to give random facts about Tigers, and be a general master of Tiger knowledge without ever having even seen one.
It's an Academic title Silly.
Greatest professor ever.
Based on what??? His scholarship follows his "axe to grind".
rrhswfl No he's not grinding any axe. He is grinding the gears of all the Evangelicals by letting the cat out of the bag though. That's what the dishonest people get for keeping the trade secrets in seminary. Exposed!
Daniel Dennett
Seriously... Address the dishonesty
rrhswfl Oh where do I begin? Let's just start where all the action is, The Gospels. Where's the originals? Evangelical Fundies teach people that we have them... Who wrote them? Evangelical Fundies teach people that it was a couple disciples and a couple clingers... Why do they disagree with one another on specifics? Evangelical Fundies teach that they don't... Why does the synoptics have parts that look like copying was going on? Evangelical Fundies teach that these are independent eye witness accounts...
That's just kind of a scratching the surface of dishonesty. How about why are Evangelical Fundies such douchbags to homosexuals, when the early Christian churches had no problem with it AND Jesus doesn't have a single gripe about it in any of the New Testaments that I'm aware of?
What's up with all the Evangelical Fundies treating their women like property? The early church had women as equals to men AND they were considered just as important in the church...
In short, they're (Fundamentalist Evangelicals) a bunch of those hypocritical butt nuggets that the jesus hated most. And they're too ignorant to explain that to. And all of them are a complete 180 from the orthodoxy of the original movement.
I rather believe I have no origin, no identity, no meaning, no morality and no destiny. Awesome!
I have the same issue. Human suffering.
Many thanks to Professor Ehrman for this clear and keen explanation about the difference between "agnosticism" and "atheism".
I personally admire Professor Ehrman a lot, first of all because I clearly understand he's a very intellectually honest man. And that is absolutely great in my opinion. Thank you, Professor Ehrman: I think all mankind needs leaders like you, sincerely interested only in teaching everybody to think and use their own brain. Thank you so much.
Once you believe in life after death it would be easy to understand why we have unjust in this world. This world is a test and the real Justice is in life after death.
Glad I found this as I found many of your discussions displaying a person in a state of unknown / confusion / without faith. Man is easily deceived by the powers to be who do such. I guess you will be surprised and shocked upon your death.
notice its because of the suffering in the world that he couldn't explain which ultimately resulted in his decision., not only the scriptural studies.
I have to agree with him. Even if I assumed there was a creator from what I'm observing he doesn't seem to intervene any so it .makes no difference to me whether there was a prime mover or not. A personal deity is out the window for me.
He is absolutely an atheist. The atheist position isn’t that there is no god (how could anyone know?). The atheist position is merely that there’s no REASON to believe that there is a god.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Romans:1:22
A typical example!
May the Lord have mercy on you and change your path.
Typical Christian calling non believers fools. Go back to your fairytales. Science isn't for everyone
Mark Rodriguez
Islam is still around. Hinduism is still around. They have persevered. I take it this is evidence of the truth of their claims too...
So Bart couldn't reconcile the fact that the Books of Job and Habakkuk speaks about sufferings and the problem of evil in the fallen world?
Maybe Bart, you should've asked God the Holy Spirit for guidance in your areas of doubting the Word of God.
How was Eve deceived by the serpent in the Garden of Eden?
What was the folly of man in the Garden of Eden?
Throughout all the Scriptures, is there a Plan to deliver those who put their TRUST in God, not their CONFIDENCE in man?
Do you really believe a serpent (snake) was able to speak?
@@Gravitysea Serpents cannot speak but invisible Satan can synchronise his words to a serpent's tongue flicking?
You lack wisdom and knowledge!
@@Gravitysea
Can a parrot talk?
@@Gravitysea
Humanistic Existentialism once again!
I wonder how one explains the supernatural? What of the mischievous or harmful entities that are becoming so well documented? Alien life and their visits here as well? So much going on out there to be atheist, but agnostic is not a bad thing, for we just don't know... And what was written has been shown to be highly man-handled, so it too is not a definitive GUIDE, yet SOMETHING is going on...
I cannot witness the creation and believe anything but that a grand intelligence was (is) behind it.
I also believe that "life" is the expression of the creator and that it is eternal.
(Bart Erhman is a grand teacher and I am a fan)
Do you also happen to believe that said 'Creator' had/is a Son who was crucified for the forgiveness of your sins, so that you may have eternal life?
I was agnostic ten years..
Then I realised that if my position was "agnostic" meaning I have "no knowledge" of God existing then it was logical that I was also "atheist".. meaning I "have no belief" god exists.
The only way I could believe without knowledge is to admit my belief was equal to a delusion..
How can you believe something you have no knowledge of.
Eventually, I realised they were 2 separate labels..
Therefore, I'm agnostic atheist.. I ended up agreeing with Ehrman..
How do you believe that which you jhave no knowledge of....?
Apply study - Learning time to the subject - and then you have knowledge and can make an intelligent and informed decision.
But please don't limit it to the Mainstream - give a thought to the more authentic - the originals and then also apply Quantum Physics and Philosophy - and lastly then you can apply your Logic.
Best regards -
Peace be with you -
Hi ! Lucas .So if God docent exist (by God I mean Jesuschrist Died on The cross for human sin ) then who you live you're life whit meaning?
And you are wilfully walking dead and will be slaughtered during this Tribulation or at Armageddon.
Better to start learning the truth and seeking GOD and Jesus?
Start by burning all you athesitic books and stop watching Ehrman's satanic videos.
Lukas Fraley belief is acceptance something true with or without evidance
do you need a proof to believe your father is your father?
professor ehrman sir really great lecture your mind and eye opener thanks alot
I believe that Mr Ehrman has a right like everyone else to believe as he sees fit. Yes churches educate people but only what is written in the Bible. I for one believe in Jesus that he was chosen and manipulated to fit in with scripture. BUT and this is a very big but I also believe that Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life and only through his way are we able to see God whether it is in ourselves or outside. I would be very interested in knowing what Mr Ehrman thinks of the psychologist Bryan Weiss findings on re incarnation. Following and reading his books have really opened my eyes to Spirituality.
I gather his logic fairly
Dr. Ehrman is anything but confused, clearly, he has spent his entire life studying Christianity and biblical scriptures, his views are intelligent, sophisticated and clearly well thought out.
Mr. Bart D. Ehrman, please read the Quran translation, make a review of it. I would be very glad to hear it, read it or watch the video of it.Thank you.
Just let him do it
Bart D. Ehrman
You said you were an Evangelical Christian.
To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever asked you what your testimony was as an Evangelical *Born-again* Christian.
So I am asking you to provide the details of your testimony.
Regards-
The issue of suffering was one of the reasons I left born-again "evangelical" (conservative) Christianity. Specifically it was my own suffering & the fact that God was not intervening quickly enough or in a positive way. I was Agnostic for about 9 months, but chose Polytheist Paganism instead. We all must choose what works for us. I'm glad he found his niche.
So the Lord didn't respond in your time. Do you know how that might sound to the Lord? When you die, and you meet him, and he asks for a defence, and that's your defence, what a week defence. Is this not the Lord's world, and creation? God does heal, he does intervene, and he loves us so much that he would leaver his place on high, to enter into humanity and be the propiciation for our sins. Where not only he lived as a human lives, but he underwent suffering and torture, and ultimately died for you and me. So you want to know where God is during your suffering, he was right there on the cross, before you and before me, before any menial suffering we have undergone.
+sda1819 He heals everyone but amputees and quadriplegics or paraplegics... or for that matter deaf and blind people. i.e. he is hiding his power to heal and left it's mystery in the hands of men who edited, retranslated and re-edited a dead language.... so....
Elisa Mastromarino The problem is greater for the non-believer. Because when you mention these things that you have an issue with, you automatically are making a value judgement, but my question to you is this: how can you even make a judgement on the morality of God, if there exist no objective morality. Since we are just the product of time plus chance plus matter, really what we are, are just chemicals fizzing; no different than when you shake a mntn dew bottle and take the top off and it fizzes, we are much the same. I'm fizzing one way and your mind is fizzing another. How can anything in this universe have objective value and adhere to objective moral principles? It isn't objectively wrong to leave a paraplegic paralyzed right? Since that person has no real objective worth anyway, as he/she is just random molecules brought together by an unguided, amoral, impersonal, random, chaotic first cause!
sda1819 That's the most honest statement I have seen... ever! We are only worth what value we place on ourselves... just animals ever evolving and making a hash of everything and everyone. Look around. We're worth...what? And to whom? Nothing. We place a high value on ourselves when the fact is no one cares. When someone is born we say "congratulations", and "how cute! ". Then we forget them. A person dies and we do the same. "Oh, so sad", etc.We're born and we die. The problem the believer has is that they place some other worldly, wonderful price tag on their worth in order to make sense of life and its true vapidness. I don't place any value on anything that a society has not shown me and taught me is the right way. And yet, there's an innate goodness in me and innate evil. I suppress the latter to keep from societies punishment.
I noticed this is true of other primates: inherent goodness, and inherent evil (usually for survival). Watch the silverback gorilla and how she cares got her young. Why?
So to answer your question about the morality of any God; none of the gods have ever stayed within the guidelines of any society no matter how primitive we are. At least none of the gods of any vapid human beings meanderings on paper.
Thank you. You put the answer right in your question.
+Elisa Mastromarino no read the Bible and listen to Jesus then ull know everything about God
Great interview, shame it's only 7 minutes. Bart has a wonderful gift for explaining complex theological issues to the layman.
Bart, I know we all struggle with faith and belief in many ways. You have stated that you need to have the originals of the New Testament manuscripts so that you can know for sure the Word of God. Jesus - and I know you might say I am misquoting Him - said to Thomas, "You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe though they have not seen." Bart, might this be a message for you?
An humanist in a dataistic era .
What's the point of discussion if you're not interested in changing an opinion? It might not be your immediate goal when you debate a Christian as that would be unrealistic, but surely it's the end goal, that maybe one day, they'll consider the points that you raised and maybe they will change their mind because of it.
David W The debate opponent is almost never the only witness to the debate, there might be someone in the audience who is more receptive to different points of view.