Leslie T. Chang: The voices of China's workers
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2012
- In the ongoing debate about globalization, what's been missing is the voices of workers -- the millions of people who migrate to factories in China and other emerging countries to make goods sold all over the world. Reporter Leslie T. Chang sought out women who work in one of China's booming megacities, and tells their stories.
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This is a brilliant talk. An insight into the way people work and what they think. I have been to quite a few factories in China and she describes it all so well. These workers are often such nice generous people too. Thank you.
Piss off
Archiebald Arsledon
how are they generous?
There are a great number of people in industrialized first world countries who are not aware of the terrible conditions in the rural regions of developing countries, nor have any connection to people in suffering from these conditions. I found this talk refreshing because it reminds me of real conversations from people in similar scenarios (as a 1st gen US citizen, they remind me of my family's struggles). Whether or not this is moral in the larger context is a different story (from the point of view of multinational corps.), but there is indeed a context to consider when thinking about folks in this type of situation. Reducing our view of these workers to our prejudiced belief in the exploiter/victim economic paradigm does them a disservice. I have been to China on business, I have been to the factories, and I hope that they will earn greater labour protections... but I also understand context. That, I believe, is the main point of her excellent presentation. She certainly is not saying that their state of affairs is 'hunky dory'.
Great comment!
while westerners are talking about rights and democracy, factory worker in China they care about having a better life through hard work in the factory. Not until they are rich and enjoys a lot of leisure time will they think about rights. Human rights are just higher level of pursuit. But the good news is, things are improving in China and with more money and more education, workers live a hopeful life and they could have higher level pursuit, such as spiritual life and human rights.
Exactly.
No doubt, the transformation of China has been great...but for some reason...excessive exploitation of workers in Bangladesh, Vietnam...it has not been the same...wages there have in fact decreased in the past decade...
That's just a price that a country has to pay to adopt industrilization and capitalism. china used to be and still is the so called "world factory", while the west always criticize the working condition of workers in china but they seem to not realize that it is pricisely those factories that made china the 2nd largest economics in the world today.
The unprofessional Leon Indeed...but for some reason, Vietnam, Bangladesh, Thailand...countries like this...have not transformed ....
Globalization does not always have positive effects....We as consumers must realize that to a certain degree multinational corporations behave unethically...
A.S S. There's an old saying in China "there can not have two tigers on one mountain", on one hand the China is still dominating the export market and on the other hand the prime time for low tier manufacturing industry has passed and in the case of Vietnam and Tailand: to gain high revenue those factories have to drive the worker's salary down. However I'd look at this from another prespective, though this salaries seems ethnicly wrong, nobody in China plan to work long term in these factories and women who came from poor rural area without any proper skills/education hoping to make a living in the cities have had a gasp of air to work as a worker temporarily to get use to the real world and have some savings before planing on their next step.
On the contrary, it should be assumed that resilience is admirable. It's unlikely that these factory workers will one day run the country, just as the "tank man" didn't. Individual resilience & hard work is indeed inspiring, as Chang's talk capitalizes on, but without denying that we can insist that workers, collectively, need bargaining power. Their rights need to be protected by law. Chang privileges the individual narrative of resilience over the collective narrative of labor relations.
Almost a decade has passed, and it's still true. The spirit of the Chinese people glows!
I love Leslie's insight of the factory girls. I've watched this video a few times. It's amazing that after more than 7 years, this video is still relevant considering how much China and the rest of the world have changed during this time.
factory girl was a great reading, and this is a brilliant talk, Thank you.
I believe part of the point of the talk was that these workers aren't in misery. They are intelligent and resourceful people able to build meaningful lives within the limitations of their situation. I think we can all also agree that corruption is bad and exploitation is bad, but progress is being made towards a better future.
This insight greatly touched me, we are privileged.
Very good talk and a true reflective of life in China, at times baffling to us all and this talk moved me somehow, I have been to the place Leslie talked about, it is all true to the bone.I would have liked to see some visual with this talk just a few to share with those who has not been there and more so could make the talk even more powerful. her closing statement is best.
I love Leslie is giving a voice to the untold stories of the factory workers. It's amazing that we forget we're talking about people.
Gonna check out the video, thanks!
Before that, though, I believe we're talking about separate issues. Again, she's giving voice to the people that are living it that have, so far, not even been asked their opinion. Also, unionizing isn't always the path the better business. My own industry is grappling with that now (visual effects). It's always worth discussion, though. These are difficult subjects.
People are so quick to assume, and so afraid to ask. She did something that many wouldn't think to do. Excellent work.
Good timing with this video!
This is an amazingly accurate and honest description of the mindset of the typical Chinese factory worker. It parallels my observations _exactly_ when I was there. Great talk.
Great talk lets get everyone educated and ready to succeed in life! Amazing video and loved the talk :D
Truth is difficult. Reality is complicated. There are no easy or simple answers. Not many people understand that. And some that understand - aren't brave enough to speak. My respects to Ms Leslie T. Chang. I am glad that I have met such a person on my way.
The workers who work in the production lines,instead just the component of the lines they are living person,who have their own ideas and emotions. This talk filled with huamanism and humanitarian cares ..... THANK YOU MUCH
Watching this on my iPhone. ;)
this is so much more complicated than just 15 min talk can express
So SAD
I'm hanging out dongguan, what she said is amazing and right. She's adorable.
同在东莞
It is not that most of what she stated isn't true. But she made the most valid point also: They are not enslaved. They CHOOSE to migrate to cities and get factory jobs, and get an education. And they CHOOSE to keep them. They choose to send money back to their families. Just like the Mexican immigrants and all others in America or those who immigrate to Europe. It is not that their conditions aren't bad, but as she said, in many cases conditions were still better than living in the areas they came from.
Their salaries are gradually increasing. And the standard of living of Chinese factory workers is increasing dramatically. And increasingly they are able to be able to afford the products they make. But the reality, is that it is scientific, technological, and human development, that benefits and will increasingly benefit, all mankind. If it wasn't made in China, it would be made in some other country.
This was very insightful. I will be looking for more from Leslie T. Chang.
Dongguan is where I read her book, from a friend living there, about the time it was published. Remarkable book, and my friend is still working there. Spent years in China, it changed tremendously, I did too. Always near China...WeChat!!
Western countries usually judge China on facts 10 years ago, which is not a good way to look at a country that is changing so fast. What I know is factories in China are now having a hard time hiring new labors even though they raise the salary to 400 or 500 dollars a month. Though the labor is still cheap comparing to US, the price for Chinese labor grows a lot, and keeps growing. Earning less than 1 dollar a day is already not the case.
Shuo Niu / What can you buy with 500 dollars a Month ? A Tesla ?
Well, you know what it means to a country if its people's income grows by 15 times, right?
TRENCH Lara Why Chinese need to buy Tesla?
At least Chinese has honesty job and can choose what they want to do.
They don't cheat money, don't borrow money, they are progressing day by day.
Chinese never begging others.
No need pity, no need crying, no need dressing.
Just look at yourself, don't bother others.
+Shuo Niu 呵呵，原来是专制网评员，你也配姓赵？
Scope it Out take a look to other developing countries in S.E.A
theres many peoples who earn $100 a month
Excellent talk. She did a wonderful job giving insight in perspective.
She is merely saying the priorities are different between the East and the West.
When Nike Air Jordans originally came out, it was inconceivable to us in Korea that Americans were willing to pay as much as $100 for a pair. Of course, they were manufactured there and would only cost about $15 for an authentic pair. Still, most of us preferred Adidas since they were constructed better.
That was an awesome talk thank you so much for your investment in this project.
Good speech. Well researched. Balanced point of views.
I really appreciate the relationship she and the female Chinese workers established and it is deliriously touching. However, the situation of Chinese workers could not be changed in the short term, especially when the world economy is so much interdependent. Ipod, Nike, or whatever brands, they need Chinese cheap labour and vice versa. Who says globalisation is a double-sided sword? Because it really is.
I agree. I wish I could have heard more from the male experience as well. Still, this isn't science, this is journalism and can be equally informative. Embedding yourself for two years shows impressive dedication.
Wow, she is illuminating a powerful truth here. It just takes a moment of empathy and logic to realize how superficial and egocentric our discussion of "offshored workers" are.
How long would it take for a factory worker in Boeing to buy an airplane? How deeply do you think about the product / services that the company you work for provides? Don't we think about providing for our families and living better lives?
Why would it be so much different for those in china?
Thanks for that info. It explains soooooo much.
I just finished her book, Factory Girls. What a fantastic read.
This was unexpected. thank you.
Well said.
I am from a village in central of China, usually deemed to a slow-growth area, and i am 30, so catched the time that China opened to the world. Both the elders and the yougers, most of us are positive of the econimy situation, although they do not understand what is the reason or the result of the policies, including the some no human rights policies. Most of us are positive attitude to the society, including my youger cousin, 19, who went to Dongguan clothing factory 3 years ago after junior.
She's not saying we should ignore those bad working conditions. In the beginning of her speech she had made her point clear: Provoking the public pressure to shut down the factories in China is not a solution.
this speech reminds me my days spending with those workers. I used to work with some Chinese young people with similar backgrounds as she depicted in the talk: come from rural area, poorly educated, and at their early 20s'...they worked on their "experiments" day and night, but they did not understand exactly what are they doing...
What I got from this talk is that criticizing, condemning and judging is not the same as having understanding and compassion for another's situation in life (she says as she carries on knitting for pleasure)
I was thinking exactly the same thing 3 seconds in. :)
I like this woman, very much, because of her experience and down-to-earth telling.
This was not the point of the talk. It should be assumed that exploitation is wrong.
Resilience IS progress. This talk is inspiring. Does no one remember the Tienanmen Square massacre? Most young Chinese have no idea of the tank man. I was in Korea when we were rioting for democracy and watched closely when the dissidents in China were cut down. Does no one else find hope in seeing these resilient youths eventually running the country?
Paulo Freire said that an oppressed society had not just oppressed people, but also oppressors, and since the oppressed carried a yearning for freedom and outnumbered their oppressors, it was their duty to overcome them and reclaim humanity. Although he was talking about revolution-era Latin America, I would argue that the same philosophy would apply to global capitalism. Although, are the oppressors in capitalist society really individuals? Or is it something in the alienating ideology?
people will work no matter what they need to live just like you and me
Awesome.
What an impressive speaker!
To clarify Marx for those who didn't read him. Alienation is a material conceot. It means that the creatpr if the product is not onlx emotionally detached from the product of it's own labour, but also he/she has no ownership over it in capitalistic mode of production. It's not emotional context first and foremost.
This is similar to my own working experience in China. I did work on factory sites and had lunch in the same cantine as the factory workers, food was actually pretty good, and factory workers had a little flat for themselves.
Limiting exports will just raise prices, not bring back manufacturing.
150 - 200 years ago our ancestors were working in factories with conditions just as bad, if not worse and we all now prospering from it. The same thing is happening in China only their progress is much faster than ours ever was. Best Ted Talk I've heard so far.
most excellent
some notes
spent 2 years in Dongguan studying female Chinese factory workers
their motivation: better lives, help their family, curiosity, see the world
they didn’t care that much about their own living conditions or creature comforts, but wanted upward mobility
there’s decent upward mobility, some of these factory workers can become urban middle class (although Leslie didn’t share specific #s)
what they wanted most: EDUCATION
for example on weekends they’d take computer skills and English language classes
kevinhabits.com/ted/
thanks for this!
This sounds like the perfect justification for the Hunger Games
This seems to be massively sidestepping the issue... the corruption of local officials, the targeting of those who attempt to unionise or request better working conditions, the danger caused by having air filled with fine aluminium dust from getting those products so nice and shiney, the lack of protective gear to keep that out of people's lungs etc. the forced pregnancy tests and abortions of the girls... that their only other option is worse is not a defense for this
Her book is great.
Correct, and it's the fact that they have no other choice but starvation, sometimes imprisonment, and sometimes the choice of starvation is an enforced one, that makes these people vulnerable and so easily exploited. The fact that they are this vulnerable is the exact reason why we must get western manufacturers to take their responsibility towards them at least as seriously as they take their responsibility towards short term profit generation. Support of a company that refuses is disgraceful.
Magnífico livro. Mostrou-me o outro lado da china que não conhecia. E o cotidiano; a luta; das pessoas que constam na historia, me instigou a batalhar mais pelo que tanto prezo.
You said it so well. The lack of human standards cannot be glossed with future expectations that may or may not come.
There's a book called "Kicking away the ladder" - it explains how people living in developed countries currently have impossibly high standards on how emerging economies should run. These expectations stop emerging economies from running at low cost & take away their advantage, essentially taking away their chance at growth. if you go back to early 20th century, children above the age of 12 were allowed to work in USA for 12hrs a day in factories. Those children were humans too.
I just checked one google talks about china, talked about something but nothing new for westerners. this video provides a brand new perspective for china or Chinese .actually, we have ancient words for such situation, which describe the feeling of western peoples to Chinese workers-"何不食肉糜"
They're not stockholm victims, they're people. And we shouldn't dismiss their choices. If they choose to work in a factory then evidently they were worse off in the countryside. That doesn't mean that life is good for the workers now but what's the alternative?
I don't the talk was trying to justify the system in China. Rather, she was trying to inform the audience about the employment situation in China and what the workers do to improve their lives.
I am a Chinese and I have a couple of friends working in the city Dongguan(mentioned in the video). I can't agree more with the speaker, the living and working condition is poor but the young workers would tolerate that. All they want is money. most of them have not finished high school for reasons like fierce competion in college entrance enrollment, even lack of money for middle or high school. they would not like to go back to village since even their parents have went to factories,and farmer
An iphone is worth about CNY 4500, while worker's average wage per month is maybe CNY 2000, or 2500 at most. They are not really being abused, but it seems that we have more labor that needed, or workers are satisfied with increasing wage, not realizing it should increasing much more rapidly.
Amazing
Interesting presentation. When she said "The Nike's on your feet" I looked at my feet. I work part time at the moment and earn approximately £6 an hour, which to them is a lot, in this country, it's not fantastic, but if I worked more hours it would be a respectable wage on that income per hour.
I think people like myself, in countries where minimum wages are respectable, need to remember just how lucky we are.
i understand
And it's no excuse that multinational corporations are bringing jobs and opportunity to the neediest in the third-world. It does not justify their not treating them more humanely or only slightly more humanely than do the local businesses, especially when cost is not an issue, as it's not in nearly all the cases, it's safe to say.
And lastly, the ridiculous cost/profit margin of Apple's products, which results in $100 billion cash reserves among other assets, is shameful and does cry out injustice, when a pittance of the profits reinvested would make the lives of the workers much more bearable. The practice of corporations to instead demand a race to the bottom among third-world nations and see who is willing to work for ever less and under worst conditions to make the most expensive products is unethical.
She goes into a lot of detail about the lives of the women in her book "Factory Girls". Still, it's strange to me that in this talk she acts like everything is A-okay in China, just because the girls still have human ambitions. Having read her book, I'd say that the outlook for most of the factory population is still pretty bleak; it's just a lot more complex of a problem when you are on the ground talking to workers
It's so silent... Then I realized that I had the computer muted. Irony
I would like the know factory gross profit and expenditure with regard to the factory worker.
What is amazing is how people are leaving comments that shows that nobody is understanding what is being said.
Why is it so difficult to understand what this woman is saying?
What is she saying? Please!
Wow, I think after 7 years. Things have been changed a lot.
Well, child labour, slave labour, and abuse of the poor and women in the workplace has been going on since Charles Dickens' times. A Christmas Carol was published a hundred and seventy seven years ago. Everything he writes about in his book still happens today, just not in plain sight of the customers for obvious reasons.
Also, some ad hominem on the side: Keep in mind Chang works for The Wall Street Journal. That's Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal! That is all... for now.
why not?
I came back watching this video every a few months. This video keeps reminding me we are enjoying everything we have at the cost of other people`s life who work more than 60 hours every week and earn ridiculously little money.
Problem is those resilient youth may never get to "run" the country, it will be some son or daughter of some delusional powerful and/or super wealthy family. Those people don't really see the world the same as the low end. Really it is a roll of the dice, hopefully one down the line in any country sees and tries to understand their low ends of society and tries to bring them up but keeps it bottled inside until they come to power.
In other words, you'd rather question the experiences of someone who actually spent 2 years on the ground there, as well as the words of the workers themselves, because they do not fit with your desired narrative. So the factory worker in China can have a voice, but few here who would bother to listen.
Except that individuals CAN emit money, and did so before. When money was commodity based, such as gold/silver. The value was denoted by the weight of the metal, and as such was not subject to fraud and debauchment by inflation - as long as there were reliable tests to subject the money to material testing for purity.
Also there were other forms of privately issued money from banks, long before state currencies became the norm.
It is a state of mind, a culture thing
Who wants to shut them down? Workers should get benefits and better pay. That's all. Of course, some of you would argue that those benefits would cause the companies to close. The same ones that sell bags at $6000.
i was impressed when she said "measured not in money but in memories."
She did mention about the Chinese factories being oppressive
Han pasado 9 años y tenía razón, fueron para arriba.
But is this truly better than where the factory workers came from? Is 10 to 15 people per room and 50 per bathroom for a dollar and hour actually better than living on a rural farm land? Or is this what people in the West are suppose to believe to keep buying the products. I would like to hear straight from the factory workers mouth. Why should they have to live in such circumstances in order to support their families and educate themselves when and if time and energies allow it?
People usually go to work to get money and improve their life, no matter where you live. Most workers who help build things couldn't make the damn thing by themselves from scratch and most workers couldn't help design a better one. Who cares? We need a job done, we essentially hired them and they are turning in the goods, and getting a lot of cool jobs in exchange for it.
This is certainly excellent talk. If she would've put some more statistical data it would be even more interesting. I think we have to create a new discipline called "Ethical and Moral Economics" in future to study about the suffering aspect of human beings in China and across the globe.
So true! Britain too--- they just have workhouses.
What kind of choice is that? 10-15 people per room, 50 per bathroom, 1$ pr hour, to send to family. And we are expected to believe that they actually are going to college and improving themselves and their families by living this subsistant life when they are not jumping out of windows. No I cannot buy it
Americans think that before they went to factories for 10 to 12 hours a day they were sitting on the beach enjoying a life of leisure. The reality is, if farm life was so much better than the factories we would have never flocked to the cities and factories in massive numbers. Every country that industrializes has to go through the growing pains.
I partially own a 2500 strong workforce of ODM jewelry company in Thailand.
For two decades we WORKed our arses off and will continue to do so.
The voices of Thai workers: $ is never enough, but we do not live in pig condos. We chose to venture out from villages because land is not enough to farm, and we need money for food. We like overtimes because it is 1.5x the hourly wage. There isn't much yet we live happily and we hardly save. The last thing we need is your PITY because we can vote.
Its thanks to the west that China has such a powerfull economy now. If there hadn't been all that investment 20/30 years ago, China would not even be in the position to debate workers rights. I am not biast against China, as I speak fluent Chinese, my lovely girlfriend is Chinese and I have worked there.Not every worker there is poor or unhappy. Also its not a coincidence that as China develops and living standards go up, financial crisis and unemployment , we have to globaly coordinate and 加油～
Taxation is the retrieval of public funds spent on your upbringing as a social animal; for the roads used to tranport goods to your parents house, which are public domain. Schools, which are public domain. Police and fire departments, which are public domain. And so forth.
If you want it to be completely free, I suggest you move to Somalia. That is a free market utopia - you'd enjoy all of the fruits of your labor there.
I'd say it's more an issue of shoulder position, than posture necessarily -- as if they're weirdly forward, rather than bending forward per se. It is really distracting though.
Assuming the growth currently taking place is built upon the suffering of largely exploited peoples, I would have to ask you an obvious question. Once quality of life improves for the exploited, who then becomes the exploited in a system of wealth inequality? The standard of living expected in the western world is not one that all countries can adapt, that would require more resources than the earth has. People have to exist at the very bottom rungs in systems of wealth inequality.
i was sharing their pain,but was not allowed to return to Shanghai 2020
And apparently, all YOU got out of the video is that SOMEONE commented about SOMEONE else's comment on her posture. You don't know what I really thought about the talk. And anyway, if it occurs to someone to comment about the comment about little things like posture, who are you to make a fuss over it? Who are you to spam the dislike button knowing it will cause their comment to be censored?