Sayaka Isn't Evil, Y'all Are Just Mean
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- čas přidán 22. 10. 2020
- PATREON: / aerisakamatsu
DONATE: streamlabs.com/dapoppy42
EDIT: Asian folks have asked that you don't call Asian people (in general, not just asian characters) snakes. please don't try to call other characters 'snakes' or any kind of animal to 'compare' Sayaka's treatment in fandom to other characters; this is still dehumanising and racist.
chickenlittlefan15.tumblr.com...
here's a post from an Asian person explaining why the terminology is racist, and any 'alternative' that still ultimately calls or compares an Asian character to an animal is also racist. i'm sure even if my video didn't change your mind, you can find non-racist ways of expressing your mind. though it is too late for the video itself and i can only apologise for using the words in this video, even if i'm denying the connection, i have changed the title to reflect this.
the difference between being an irredeemable snake and being the one who should've been the protagonist throughout the whole game is having an ahoge and being grant george's ally
VIDEO SOURCES (incomplete) : • sayaka isn't a snake, ... - Hry
“sayaka? you mean that sna-“
“SILENCE, PEST”
Sayaka isnt a snake,she is solid snake's waifu
Don't you mean
SSSSSSSILENCE PESSSSSST
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
@@neopolitanicecream4871 lol
@@neopolitanicecream4871 no, I mean thilence petht cus I have a lisp
@Olivia Romano I hope you accidently drive into a fake spray paint tunnel lol
Sayaka: Tries to kill Leon
Community: WHAT A SNAKE
[SpOiLeR aLeRt]
Kokichi: Bullies Everyone, Acts Like a snake, manipulates gonta into murder and is overall a nuisance
Community: Kokichi is perfect and never does anything wrong
Edit: watched the video, fixed the issue
Sadly this is due to him having more screentime and favoritism from the writers
@@pxyreon6381 you... do not use reddit
Pxyreon honestly tho everyone talks about how the whole fandom worships Nagito and kokichi when they really have just as many haters as fans ( if not slightly less haters) even people who like ( including me ) kokichi have to admit he's done messed up things
I was looking for this exact comment.
Also can I just say that why does the fandom hat hiyoko but love Kokichi? (Believe me this is directed at me too) like seriously kokichi is actually the better version of hiyoko if she was gender swapped ( or maybe her and Nagitos secret love child)
When you love all of the characters except for like 2, and it hurts when people hate Kokichi for chapter 4, or Hiyoko in general, when I broke the Discord word limit 5 times explaining why I kin them and why they do not deserve hate imo. If you wanna know my reasons for Kokichi feel free to ask, but you´re free to have opposing opinions, don´t wanna force you.
ON LEON:
Leon wasn't that evil either, and I genuinely put him as one of the more justified murderers. I'm terrible at writing essays AND don't have the time so I'll just... compile a list.
>neither Leon nor Sayaka knew about the class trial.
>Sayaka had tried to kill him first, showing that she was a threat and no longer innocent in his eyes.
>Leon was panicked, and wouldn't be thinking straight.
>to Leon, if he didn't kill Sayaka, she would go on to attack either him again or someone else.
>there was no saying who would believe him if he went back. She was the one injured, and it was HER room (Makoto's room) that was wrecked. Sayaka could easily twist it to say he attacked her but panicked partway through.
>in the class trial, Leon was immediately thrust into a life-or-death situation.
Pretty sure he saw the situation with those eyes, however, Sayaka wasn't gonna accuse him, she's not that type of person, and it's confirmed in the game (and also confirmed in Danganronpa IF) that she was regretting her actions, but Leon killed her because I think he had anger issues, and he wanted revenge desperately (still not his fault, Junko knew his weakness)
Pluuuus Sayaka had a broken wrist.
And it's her right wrist too, please tell me who's dumb enough to try and kill someone when you have a broken wrist? If Sayaka would try to kill someone, it'd be after her wrist heals. And a broken bone needs months to be healed. So Sayaka would be very cautious around everyone and would try to avoid getting herself in a situation where she'd have to kill or be killed for her safety.
(ooc)Sayaka had broken wrist and locked herself in Makoto's bathroom.Leon WENT To go back and kill her, Celestia Even said in the class trial that Leon could have left the room and that he shouldn't have went back. Still I don't think he deserved to die.
@@Rocky-brilliant how is she not that type of person? her original plan was to pin leon’s murder on makoto what💀
@@aaliyahjohnson7996 monochrome answer (song where she said she really liked Makoto, and even the VA confirmed it) danganronpa if where she was regretting everything she was about to do, her ultimate development plan where she is a nice sweet girl without the dark influence of Junko Enoshima, her trigger happy heart event and her school mode ending where she again said she really likes Makoto. And in danganronpa if she said sorry to Leon and Naegi once they got out of the school, Sayaka is not evil, never has been evil, that's a fact.
Sayaka: I tried to kill someone because I was desperate. I thought my friends were dead and my career was going to fall to pieces, I feel remorse for what I tried to do to Makoto
Fandom: EEEWWW, SNAKE!!
Celeste: I literally killed two people for money
Fandom: QUEEN! I LOVE YOU!
to be fair i also love celes
Imagine if celeste got a design as basic as hajime's
@@blehblehble people would stop liking her as much and call her snake
Also when she died, or before she died, she tried to help everyone else by leaving 11037
I hate Sayaka and Kokichi, and Nagito (And Celeste). My only favorite characters are Chihiro, Ishimaru, and Hagakure. (for v2 it'd be Angie) (v3 would be Kaede and Rantaro)
Sayaka: I tried to escape to save the only important people in my life
People: ew snake
Nagito: Threatens to blow up an island and messes with people the whole game
People: Omg yes
(also btw nagito is one of my own favorites but like...)
@@szzzs The game focused way too much on him, sdr2 is my favorite but at least v3 didn't just focus on the antagonist. Plus, Sayaka is actually realistic and when you know it in depth a lot of people would probably react the same way. Just because we barely got to see her doesn't mean she was bad.
Sayaka: I didn’t know that my escape would cause the death of those around me and I just wanted to see if my friends were ok
Everyone: Omg she’s the worst
Celeste: I knew how much pain and suffering Kiyotaka had been through so I took advantage of him and Hifumi to get out of here to live in a mansion knowing that my escape would cause the death of everyone else in this game.
Everyone: Wow so hot
Nagito has a real motive though.
@@sakuraogami6885 So did Sayaka, and she wasn't aware of the class trial at the time either.
I would like Sayaka if she survive more longer. I didn't find her as a snake but more boring ._.
People: Ugh Sayaka is such a snake! She manipulated Makoto!
Those Same People: Celeste is my favorite character! I love her and kin her ❤️
Pretty much!
Those same people: kaede is so sweet
@@Qxestionable I immediately screamed BURN THE WITCH when she turned out to be a murderer, I was so pissed that she was behind Kiyotaka's death
@@panthertakamaki7141 kaede did nothing wrong tho
@@dissectedimouto She did something thing wrong by trying to kill and getting Rantaro murdered. But not everything.
But Kaede still deserved better.
I uh, hate when people say that Sayaka is a snake but,,, like loves Celestia-
I mean, she literally made Hifumi kill Taka saying that he raped her, she was going to frame Yasuhiro, she killed Hifumi too just because she wanted- and on the top of this,,, she just made this because she wanted money to complete her aesthetic and male harem..
That's literally why I hate Celestia. Her character is so unbelievably unlikable in that chapter, not even because I love Kiyotaka, but its because Hifumi and him died for legitimately no reason. The amount of money offered wouldn't even be enough for a castle, let alone a bunch of butlers, so her doing all of this meant nothing in the long run. She did it all for the sake of Aesthetic.
Sayaka, is more forgivable. As at least her motive made more sense to someone like her, it took advantage of someones anxiety and fears, which for a pop idol it makes more sense to want to get out alive. Her plot for murder was forgivable
Celestias? No- just- no-.
@@b3nt079 Agreed, i really don't understand how she have so much fans even tho she does all of this.
Also, the fact that in her free time events she starts to ranking the boys as more likely to be in her harem is kinda mean-
Agreed
I think it’s because of the way the narrative portrays them. Celeste is given no sympathy in the games but Sayaka is, (albeit deservedly). People love a villain.
I mean I think it’s stupid that people only care about how ‘nice’ a character is
I legit hate the fact that some of the Danganronpa fandom treats Sayaka like actual garbage, but then goes and makes up sad backstories for people like Kokichi.
I don’t like either of them, do I get a pass 👀
your icon is exactly how I feel about it
@@Lana.381 Totally!
Yeah sayaka's mom was dead and his dad was working for hours and I think her group was a family for she when you think she have family issues and her group most important people in world
Why do I feel like there's a nugget of internalised misogyny there? Could be wrong but I dunno. Its a tale as old as time, making excuses for men and automatically generalising and reading a female character's actions in bad faith in order to paint them in a mean girl archetype manner.
Fandom: Sayaka is an irredeemable snake!
Fandom who actually see the games: But wasn't she driven to it because she was afraid her fellow Idols were dead and she wanted to see if they were alive and the game itself left it open to interpretation to whether she left the note to get revenge on her killer or save Makoto from getting executed-?
Fandom: SILENCE INFIDEL!!!
Left open is still a 50 chance, also the game is all about having hope on the best, so the other 50 is just a treat to distract you from harsh reality. What makes me hate her is one thing everyone seems to dodge. She still used Makoto, she still wanted to frame MAKOTO, while helping him she was plotting against the only one who blindly trusted her. She faked everything, at least since the idol part, and since the game is open for interpretation, I think she also faked any interest in Makoto the first time around. She recognized a face and instead of staying alone in a scary place she wanted someone (preferably a male) to keep her company. She was scared and that's understandable, but if I can call a snake a real life person for such shady behavior, let me dislike Sayonara.
I also hate Kokichi don't worry
Well okay, you said your opinion and you don't want to bring it up any further so I'll leave you alone. I wasn't talking to you so I don't know why you'd bring that up to my comment specifically but whatever.
@@ShinyShilla those are unconfirmed assumptions so the argument is completely invalid.
@@lotus4388 No. It's...Really not. One thing to have an opinion, but that's literally factual information. This video doesn't even make sense. This CZcamsr is so desperate to defend someone she kins, that she's calling people racist for calling her shady.
It's one thing to call that optional. But this video also is opinional, and just stupid, so maybe you should be commenting on half of the false shit she said. That has been confirmed NOT to be true. "Sayaka would be devastated if she was in the trial! She couldn't go on." Speculation. "Junko hand-picked that motive FOR Sayaka." No. Just..No. "Sayaka didn't even know that there was gonna be a trial!" Ah, well. She has amazing intuition. I believe it wants to rub that in your face. I think it's okay to defend characters, but this CZcamsr is calling an audience racist for calling a character a snake, and then admitting she barely has knowledge about that.
@@lotus4388 We are discussing normally, if there is only all people saying a thing then the video is useless. I don't see a problem in talking with people with different opinions, or just giving two cents against the general thinking, until it does not harm anyone. Also it is hinted by the way she talked and also said she did a lot to get where she is that she would no problem still act like that if needed. I may have been too eager to write since I had the unpleasant honor to know someone who acted the same. If that the case I apologise
Not my favorite character overall BUT I don't think she's a snake. Y'all can be pissed that she betrayed Makoto, but Kyoko did the same damn thing and if you throw her under the bus, you get the bad ending. And don't even get me started on Celestia...
@@pedrovitor5324 the entire point of my comment is to point out that people still bitch about Sayaka betraying Makoto when Kyoko still betrayed him in some way. 🤷 People complain that Sayaka lied and led Makoto on, yet like Celestia? Who lied about Taka to Hifumi- this fandom has double standards about certain characters but whatever.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@pedrovitor5324 Well, the video actually perfectly explains it.
Sayaka had no way to ever redeem herself, while Kyoko did. So you said so yourself, but I think that if she knew about the rules, she'd at least have some consideration about Makoto well-being, to the point that if she could, she may have tried to prevent his death ( presuming she did won the trial ).
Also, the point is that both Kyoko and Sayaka betrayed Makoto in some way or another, and Kyoko had arguably a worse motive. Yes, Sayaka's may have been morally more wrong than Kyoko's ( even then, both would have lead to Makoto's death anyway, but Sayaka did have better reasons ), but that doesn't refute the fact Kyoko did betrayed Makoto. I ain't saying what Sayaka did wasn't wrong, but taking in account her situation and the stakes, I'm inclined to believe betraying Makoto wasn't such a strech. I mean, choosing between a guy you knew only from distance ( even though they may have had feelings, they still had never talked to each others ) and your group friends', the choice is really clear to most. Put in her situation, I think most would have at least considered the possibility, especially if we ourselves didn't know about the additional rule.
Plus, it's never actually shown that Sayaka's attitude towards Makoto was always false, as she already was by his side and helping him before the motive, so she essentially didn't lie about their friendship and truly considered him as her friend ( IDK after the motive, but I really believe she still considered him as her friend, plus she wasn't aware that he'd be accused and possibly killed anyway, unlike Kyoko. So I think she still cared about him ), so she doesn't fit the snake criteria at all ...
Don't get me wrong, I like Kyoko too, and she isn't a snake either, but justifying Kyoko's actions, making them less wrong than Sayaka's feels just wrong. ( and I ain't so much of a Sayaka fan, I just appreciate her )
@@pedrovitor5324 I'm not necessarely against what you're saying, and then again, the problem with Sayaka's case is that most is " what if ". Like, we don't know the real goal behind her attitude, what would have happened had she knew about the rules, nothing. In the actual case of Sayaka, I agree that we can't base anything had of unknown facts ( while Kyoko's actions are facts, and again, I wasn't trying to condone Kyoko for anything ). I guess that in the end we'll never know whether Sayaka was genuine about all she did for the sole fact she lacked any screen time. But, I still think Sayaka isn't a snake just for that sole fact just because we don't know her true intentions of thoughts ( so we can't know if she really fits the definition )
@@pedrovitor5324 I'm not really comparing them. I'm just pointing out the flaws in this fandom that people will complain about when there are worse. But **shrugs** I'm not going to disagree. I said what I said and that's all I really care for lol
i think people let celeste off because not mny people like hagakure and thik he's dumb. i honestly love both characters and can acknowledge that celeste was one of the people who did the worst things
Sayaka: wants to help her friends in the real world from being harmed, and wrote her killer's name as a sign of apology
People who defended Celestia's Actions: THOT!
Seriously wtf
I think Sayaka wrote the killer’s name not as an apology, but as to help the other students find the killer.
@@hashtagcritical8688 literally the same thing; she wanted to help them to uncover the truth, trying to make amends with them for what she did, It doesn't matter how you see it; she was really hesitating and she was really regretful about what she did.
@@hashtagcritical8688 personally i think it was more to payback Leon then defend Makoto
@@andrewshearsby8125 That too, I guess.
community: sayaka is a snake and kokichi did nothing wrong!!
kokichi: after all my hard work trying to be the worst character possible, this is what i get
I hate Sayaka and Kokichi, and Nagito. My only favorite characters are Chihiro, Ishimaru, and Hagakure. (v3 would be Kaede and Rantaro)
@Strawberii Isn't Angie from v3?
@@sairakudamara Yep.
@@rawdasalmataman7908
…dude. You can still compare aspects of a character in a franchise.
@@rawdasalmataman7908
It’s important for analysis to compare aspects of different characters. Aeris literally did that with kyoko and Aoi and Sayaka
Why is it that when Kokichi is getting criticized for people throw the “don’t compare” card
You obvious shouldn’t compare characters to say they’re rip-off’s of each other when it comes to fan characters and canon characters
But when it comes to comparing canon Danganronpa characters. You should be able to analyze things
While I don’t like her, (She’s more neutral for me) Sayaka gets way too much hate (even if she did kill baseball bae)
Edit: After rewatching a Dangaronpa let’s play video and watching her free time, she is now my third favorite THH character.
11037*
@@funeral6907 I know but if she didn’t try to kill Leon then Leon wouldn’t have killed her.
@@funeral6907 ???
@@funeral6907 what they are saying is if Sayaka didn't try and kill Leon, Leon wouldn't have killed Sayaka and Leon wouldn't have been executed.
What are you guys time travelers this is 50 minutes old
i don't think she's a snake, i feel she's more...badly written, in a sense. i don't know, it seems like they should have developed her point of trauma and fear more in the trial, because the shock reveal of her betrayal really overrides everything else before it. i also feel the relationship between makoto and sayaka is...forced? it just didn't seem natural. when it boils down to it, i feel like better presentation of the ideas would have betrayed her in a better light and she wouldn't be as hated by the fandom.
thank you for coming to my ted talk.
I agree! I think maybe they should’ve just had some more... natural interactions instead of forcing you to spend time with her. (I’m broke and can’t get the game but from what I’ve seen and heard the game kinda forces you to spend time with her). It kinda feels like they were forcing you to spend time with this “super kind sweet nice girl” only to knock it down with the “OOH but she was trying to FRamE you!” They were kinda writing her around that I think. As for her hostages, tbh I’m surprised no one else broke down the way Sayaka did. I think they definitely should’ve brought that up and explained it more. No doubt people definitely still wouldn’t like her, but she wouldn’t be hated to the extent she is. (I’m not that big of a fan of Sayaka, but she definitely could’ve been written better)
@@pedrovitor5324 yeah, looking back the a lot of the characters are underdeveloped or written badly or just not given a that important of a role -cough cough Akane having a great arc but not being important to the plot so she gets forgotten-. I think that’s what happened with Sayaka.
I agree. She’s one of my least favorites but thats more because i just have a personal thing towards bubbly characters like her, but i agree that they creators should have handled her better and the same with Leon. The only reason they were the first to die was because the creators were tired of seeing their designs which is completely unfair.
Most likely not going to happen, but a remastered version of Trigger Happy Havoc would be really nice to flesh out the early character deaths (ie: Sayaka, Leon, and Mukuro). If these three can get more free time events, perhaps they can be redeemed in some people’s eyes.
I disagree about her relationship with Makoto being forced- they knew each other, they were the only two people that had known each other before the killing game. Of COURSE they were gonna stick together instead of hanging out with these people they barely know- wouldn’t EVERYONE feel much safer with someone they’d known previously?
“Name one character that didnt do that in ONE way”
*GONTA GOKUHA-*
He roasted miu.
He wasn’t dumb. He knew what he was saying.
@@artthenecromancer404 lol
@@artthenecromancer404 AHAHAHAHAH-
Better answer: Ibuki Mioda
Gonta would be another valid answer if it weren't for *that* trial.
HIMIKO YUMENO OR NEKOMARU?’
Leon is not in the wrong
Sayaka is not in the wrong
Both of them were justified
@Celes and she should have tried to kill him simple.
@@maciejl20 Think about it
>You are locked in a place with stranger
>You need to kill each other
>Someone ask you to come
>You are naive (Leon literally though his cousin could beat the women world record of throwing ball)
>She try to kill you
>You defend yourself
> "Wait, I hurted her, she can go saying shit, people will believe her, they maybe try to kill me" and many other of that kind of thought come to mind
>Wait if I kill her, I can get out, nothing will happen
>WHAT DO YOU MEAN CLASS TRIAL
@C Put yourself in Leons shoes, someone tried to kill you, would you leave them, no you’d be shaken and wouldn’t think straight, he couldn’t think, he might’ve though that Sayaka would have went after someone else or pinned it on him. It might be easy to say that one could just leave, but no, not when your in their shoes
@C Whatever you say
@C what do you mean? He came to sayakas room or Makotos room because she called him through letter, she tried to kill him, he defended himself to live and took the weapon, and she hid in the bathroom behind her, he didn’t go to another room at all.
Can we just Stan Sayaka
Edit: Thank you all for 100+ Likes I have never got this many
Absolutely
way ahead of you
@@DetectiveNyx You know I'd be interested in seeing a Survivor AU kinda like I'd trade my life for yours where Kaede lived on and Shuichi died in her place but this time with Sayaka instead, how her character would change and evolve for better or worse is something the has always intrigued me
F yeah
Let me tell you
Your comment is under himiko
"Sayaka isn't a snake, y'all are just mean"
Facts
ey it's that car guy
Welp
I still dont like her
@@sablley4809 then your mean 🙄 (unless you have good reasons)
@Pen Pig well i actually like snakes
I just realized another reason as to why I initially thought Sayaka was "evil"
So before I played Danganronopa, I was a big fan of Ace Attorney, and in it, there was a character named Dahila Hawthorne. She and Sayaka have a lot in common: both are initially seen as innocent little girls, the main character has a crush on her in the past, both tried to kill, etc. The thing is, Dahila's innocence is just a facade, and she is actually a manipative woman who cares only about herself. Basically, Dahila is ACTUALLY a snake. So when I heard that Sayaka attempted to kill leon and how she framed Makoto for doing it, my mind automatically associated Sayaka with Dahila. Also, it's just an overall popular trope for a seemingly innocent girl to use her innocence to her advantage, so much that people somewhat actually believe it in real life.
TDLR; The reason why Sayaka is seen as a snake is because it's such a big trope for a character like her to be secretly evil that people automatically think this trope applies to her
ah so it's people once again doing surface level stuff
But I think what Sayaka still did was pretty selfish.
@@Sapphire04 agreed.
Even if Sayaka was a snake, she’d make snakes looks pretty. :)
@@izzibizzi It’s no problem at all, also hi!
@@izzibizzi how are you?
I ship it-
s i m p
@@izzibizzi It’s okay, I know how busy it is being the Ultimate pop sensation. I’m doing great, thanks for asking.
I used to loathe Sayaka, but that’s probably because at the time I had someone backstab me (kinda like sayaka). Now, I’m actually quite fond of Sayaka and think that the hate she gets is very unjustified.
As someone who made an entire video as to why Leon's secretly a good character, I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly. One thing I really liked about case 1 a lot is that both Sayaka and Leon were very morally grey, and it was completely subjective when it comes to who was in the right or not. Sayaka shows that, sometimes, you have do awful things, like lie, betray, and kill, in order to save the ones you truly love. What she and Leon did really shows how much the killing game affects people. This is also one reason why I didn't like the manga
. It made Leon too sympathetic and Sayaka too unsympathetic. They stop feeling like real people with realistic motivations.
EDIT: (I used to hate on Sayaka a lot because I was THAT biased towards leon)
EDIT AGAIN: I also really like your analysis videos. I hope you make more.
I sorta like the manga because the game doesn’t show enough that Leon is sympathetic to the fandom
Even though it’s unrealistic for someone especially like Leon to act rationally in that situation
Tsk the fandom...
And I can easily still sympathize with Sayaka as “would you trust the person who you tried to killed to not kill you and that they just want to talk?”
So her reaction to Leon wanting to talk made perfect sense
@@nevergonnagiveyouup1180 i agree
Anyway, simp for both
@@nevergonnagiveyouup1180 the manga is not canon, that's why it is not included in the official timeline of Danganronpa, Kodaka doesn't like the dangaronpa 1 manga and he doesn't approve it, so everything there is not what happened in the canon game, the manga is not canon and that means Leon really wanted to kill her to scape, but i still feel sorry for Sayaka and Leon, They didn't know the true rules of the class trial, that was Junko's trap. Also in the manga Sayaka said she doesn't want to kill Makoto because she appreciated Makoto as her friend, and she left her message on the wall while she was thinking about Makoto, saying she was sorry and that's confirming she wanted to save Makoto from suspicion using her messages, so, Sayaka really doesn't deserve the hate she gets.
@@Rocky-brilliant the manga is not canon, yes, but it also never got confirmed in canon that Leon killed her to escape.
In my opinion Sayaka had to have the most realistic reaction from being trapped in a school with _strangers_ and gets set up in a killing game as a teenager.
People most likely get naïve and think they're not like that but in reality they act somewhat a way Sayaka did or even worse.
*It's like saying I won't scream in pain when I lose a limb or 2*
Honestly she wasn’t really a snake, she was just desperate to get out. Understandable. I just. I just think she’s boring
_The SAYAKERS are approaching_
I am
fool, the sayaker was in me all along
@@DetectiveNyx we’re all sayakers
Hah *me*
@@DetectiveNyx Maybe the sayakers was the friends we made along the way the whole time
Finally, someone who doesn’t hate my sweet gal Sayaka
RIGHT PEOPLE I ENCOUNTER HATE HER BECAUSE SHE BETRAYED QUOTE ON QUOTE "MY PRECIOUS CINNAMON ROLL" AKA MAKOTO
I KNOW! IT'S JUST SO ANNOYING WHEN THEY JUST USE THAT AND DON'T TAKE IN COUNT THE OTHER STUFF LIKE HOW DESEPERATED SHE WAS TO ESCAPE!
@@firopi7901 🐍🔪
I don't hate sayaka.........................................................
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I hate sayaka with ever atom in my body sayakas a. 1401
@@peridoott 🌪🙂🌪🔨
Sayaka: * exist *
The community: OmG shE is A sNaKe
Kokichi: * Manipulate people,liar,acts like a snake *
The community: OmG He is InnoCEnt!!
Edit:
Ngl(Not gonna lie) i like kokichi too but his kinnie(some of his kinnie) saying he is innocent and UwU soft boy uWu lol
it's almost like this fandom has a severe misogyny problem that it won't admit to unless i hold it at fucking gunpoint
Like I love Ouma. But he’s far from innocent and people calling in game Kokichi and uwu soft boy when it’s not an au (since derailment can happen) just makes me laugh in cringe-
I do not like both of them
The irony is killing me...
I honestly hate Kokichi with all my heart
Sayaka: is sweet and kind
Community: snake
Kokichi: is a literal demon
Community: what do you mean he’s not a an innocent cinnamon roll
Bruh does anyone realise how true this is?
It's sad, I don't understand this fandom either..
Also people be like
Sayaka: manipulates two men for her own gain
Fandom: *i sleep*
Celeste: does the same thing
Fandom: how dare she! And people like her more than Sayaka?!
@@pantysfootstool while Sayaka did it to save her friends, Celestia did it for money, but yeah Sayaka is the selfish one of the franchise...
you forgot to mention nagito who blew up many stuff yet people call him innocent (i don't care about his past, it's no excuse to do what he did)
Sayaka has a really interesting character and I love her to bits. She isn’t a snake and never *was*. She was literally one of the sweetest people in DRTHH and you cannot disagree with that.
Ya’ll just mad she looks ‘boring’.
@@VanilliBean
I love Taka and all but sometimes he gets a lil’ annoying.
@@VanilliBean
He is very wholesome and I still love him! 💕
I thought Taka was annoying at first, but now he is one of my favorite characters from DR1.
NO I kid you not she did NOT look boring I- the moment I saw all those people and I saw this cute girl with long hair and barrettes I was like “holy crap she’s my favorite”
-She turned out to not be my favorite but still-
@@loveloveaii
LMAO SAME
Everyone I’ve met who doesn’t like Sayaka says she looks boring I-
I personally don’t like Sayaka, but I wouldn’t go as far to call her a snake when people like Celeste have done so much worse. If you want to call Sayaka a snake, you have to call Celeste a snake too.
Nah nah nah, the difference between them is that Celeste was fairly smart in chapter 3. I didn’t personally catch the last name calling thing hifumi did until later on because I figured their relationship of “servant and master” was different. All sayaka had going for her was the switch in rooms, which I’m not sure would totally help her, seeing as Makoto’s room was the one with the weird lock and Monokuma would’ve likely had to vouch for that in the trial to make discussion fair (much like the instance in v3’s 5th class trial with the footage not being uploaded). Honestly I still feel like she snitched on Leon with her writing and wasn’t looking out for a boring person like Makoto.
@@sonicandres2 can you clarify what you're trying to say? I dont quite get it
@@sonicandres2 I'm not trying to say that Sayaka is a snake, I'm just trying to say that if people call her that and hate her, they can't immediately go over to Celeste and praise her endlessly.
@@sonicandres2 TW: s*xual assault
(sorry if i come off as rude, i'm not really good at conveying emotion through text lol) People calling Sayaka or Celeste a snake don't have to do with their intelligence. It just has to do with their actions, and people call Sayaka a snake for betraying/framing Makoto while praising Celeste even though she betrayed Hifumi, framed Yasuhiro, and lied about s*xual assault (I believe that was what she was implying). This doesn't really have to do with the games, it has to do with people who praise Celeste then call Sayaka a snake. I'm not even really a Sayaka fan or a Celeste fan, but it does annoy me when people do this because it comes off as... i dunno, just weird? I hope you have a good day, and if you reply i'm sorry if i don'treply as I have to do some stuff for school lol
@@rainymafuyu oh no don’t get me wrong I’m not trying to praise Celeste for her actions. I guess what I mean to say is that they both did actions that were unforgivable (sayaka taking the knife and writing the note with clear intentions of murdering and Celeste with her mistreatments and manipulations of Hifumi) but in terms of story writing, I feel like Celeste had more going for her as a mysterious person we didn’t know anything about whereas sayaka was written as the protagonists generic middle school crush more or less. Didn’t mean to argue that one was better than the other, they both did wrong lol
*Sayaka, a girl forced in a killing game that had a panic attack because she was worried for her friends*
Everyone: *M A N U P U L A T I V E S N A K E*
Fandom: Sayaka is a a snake.
The other half of the fandom: Okay, so are Celeste, Nagito, and Kokichi, and you love them
Fandom: ....
The other half of the fandom:
Fandom: They're entertaining snakes.
Fr like why do people love the crazy characters
@@realuniversal
The same reason people like villains; They cause conflict. Kokichi and Nagito, although annoying to some, serve a pivotal role in the games. Without them, there wouldn't be a lot of conflict going on with everyone else. If there was no Nagito, then the group would largely get along okay, except for maybe Fuyuhiko. V3 has it even worse, a lot of that cast is *tight* with one another. It also helps that they aren't *just* crazy, although it may initially appear that way. Nagito is off his rocker sure, but for all the fandom memes on him, he's actually pretty reasonable for a good chunk of the game. The first trial is probably him at his most crazy. And Kokichi is very clearly putting on a show, the credits of trial five, show as much. At the end of the day, they both act in their own interests, but they have understandable reasons for doing so. They're still fucked, and you shouldn't imitate anything they do, but...Yeah.
To be fair, you’re not wrong.
As a guy who likes Sayaka, I’ll play devil’s advocate for a second
At least those characters admit it
@@PigBoy99Sayaka doesn't have to admit anything because she isn't/wasn't evil in the first place, unlike them.
As someone who completely agrees I am SO SO FREAKING EXICTED HELL YA
Imma put a quick thing here tho;; People get pisses at sayaka for framing makoto ((Which is understandable)) then stan Celeste?? Celeste did somthing probably w o r s e. What they both did was bad but other characters have had way worse motives and people still love them like what,,,? Mondo, Celeste, Leon, Peko (Kinda,,?) And everyone treats them likd little wittle babies who deserve the world. It completely fine to feel like they deserve they world as long as you be respect
Edit;; I put popular charaters and Im currently playing V3 and Idk who the MOST popular characters who were blackeneds were yet-
I stan all of them and they all deserve the world
@@nessilveira y e s
@@nessilveira oh absolutely uwu
@@vurrkit uwu
I think its partially because Sayaka died first so they didn't have a chance to get to know her like they did with all of the other listed characters
F A C T S
she’s 2nd best girl, first being Mahiru.
that's really unpopular I'm glad I'm not the only one who likes mahiru. She's not my favorite girl in DR but I never see anyone say anything positive about her.
I agree! Mahiru is my favorite girl from the 2nd game!
omg i love mahiru TT
Mahiru is amazing!
Mahi's free times should have been implemented in the main story so people wouldn't hate her as much.
2:36 Name one DR character that didn’t deceive others
Okie sure I’ll try
(Also note- any murderers count as “deceiving” others because they obviously tried to deceive people by pretending they weren’t the murderer)
DR1
Sayaka- Yes- she deceived Makoto
Mukuro- She deceived them by pretending to be Junko
Leon- Murderer
Chihiro- Hid the fact that he was a boy (if you see him as another gender, I respect that, but I’m going off of what’s canon to the plot)
Mondo- Murderer
Hifumi- Murderer (and he pretended to be hurt when he wasn’t)
Taka- I don’t think he deceived anyone?
Celeste- Murderer
Sakura- Hid that she was the traitor
Junko- The hecking mastermind, of course she deceived everyone
Hiro- Not getting into specifics, but he hid a lot of info in class trials sometimes (bc he was too scared to share it with everyone)
Toko- Hid that she was Genocide Jill (Jack?)
Byakuya- Deceived everyone with the Chihiro case
Hina- Hid the truth about Sakura’s death
Kyoko- Hid all that stuff about her dad, maybe? Idk if that’s relevant but I’ll count it
Makoto- I don’t know? I don’t think he ever tried to deceive anyone
DR1 PURE COUNT- 2 (Taka and Makoto)
DR2
Byakuya- Hid that he knew someone was planning a murder
Teruteru- Murderer
Mahiru- Hid the stuff she knew about that Twilight game
Peko- Murderer
Hiyoko- I mean isn’t that kinda her character? She lies and tricks people a lot
Ibuki- I don’t think Ibuki ever deceived anyone- and if she did, it was so obvious she was lying that I won’t count it
Mikan- Murderer
Nekomaru- Deceived the group about Nagito (he’d tied him up but didn’t want the others to know)
Gundham- Murderer
Nagito- I don’t think I even need to explain him- he’s the eMBODIMENT of deceit
Chiaki- Idk, maybe the fact that she hid the fact that she’s a liTERAL ROBOT
Kazuichi- Same as Nekomaru
Fuyuhiko- Hid that stuff about Peko (bc he knew she was the murderer)
Hajime- Idk, I don’t really think he deceived anyone
Akane- Honestly she’s not bright enough to deceive anyone
Sonia- I don’t think she deceived anyone either actually
DR2 PURE COUNT- 4 (Ibuki, Hajime, Sonia, Akane)
DRV3
Rantaro- Hid that Ultimate Survivor stuff
Kaede- Murderer
Ryoma- I’m actually not sure? I can’t remember a time where he intentionally deceived anyone
Kirumi- Murderer
Angie- She deceived everyone into joining her cult
Tenko- Pretended to be in Angie’s cult
Kiyo- Murderer
Miu- Hid her true intentions of the Virtual World (also why does no one talk about how the Virtual World is the NEO WORLD PROGRAM?? I thought that was so cool)
Gonta- Murderer (it IS a stretch, seeing as even he didn’t know he was the murderer- but he DID hide it in the virtual world)
Kokichi- Remember what I said about Nagito being the embodiment of deceit? Yeah forget that, Kokichi makes Nagito look like a puffball
Kaito- Murderer :( (and he hid his sickness)
Tsumugi- Mastermind
Keebo- He is a pure cinnamon roll and I don’t think he ever hid anything
Shuichi- Lied in class trials (to get to the truth)
Maki- Hid her talent
Himiko- Hid the stuff about her magic trick not being magic
DRV3 PURE COUNT- 2 (Ryoma and Keebo)
TOTAL-
People that didn’t deceive others (feel free to tell me if I’m wrong for one of them and explain why):
- Taka
- Makoto
- Ibuki
- Hajime
- Sonia
- Akane
- Ryoma
- Keebo
I mean, in the bad ending Makoto called out Kyoko's lie and that les to her execution but I don't think that counts cuz that ending wasn't even canon but oh well.
Taka is baby but he DID attempt to deceive the others during Mondo's trial, even though it was not a very good attempt. He was so in denial that Mondo could be a murderer that he by the end of the trial he's hysterical and starts trying to say he was the murderer and telling everyone to vote for him. He was willing to let himself AND everyone else just so Mondo can live. That being said, seriously, so what if all of the listed characters were deceivers? It's easy to say that we would be able to go against Junko's rules so no one would have to try but we have the benefit of hindsight AND plenty of time to think things over in a high stress situation. For gods sake, they're teenagers, their brains aren't even fully developed! Except Celeste, I don't get how people like her when she just killed people in the pursuit of money and power an--- you know what, as a Dio kinnie, I should leave it at that.
@@bitebackbunny Two words
ZA WARUDO
Idk if this counts but I’m gonna say it Ryoma kept the fact he wanted someone to kill him a secret and no one knew he was about to die so basically (Ryoma let Kirumi drown him so she could save her country but Ryoma told no one)
How about that, my favorite boys from all three games all ended up in the pure category...
This is coming from a Leon kinnie
I love Sayaka and i wish she was loved more.
i feel the same way about leon tbh as a sayaka kinnie
I like both as well!
Both suck and so does my opinion
@@DetectiveNyx Be my friend. Right. Now.
Ur racist
Oh sayaka isn’t a snake?
Yeah you’re probably right.
That's probably literal, isn't it?
I just don't like sayaka's character, I think she reacted normally tho-
Like i found sayaka boring, and the fact that the creator MADE US hang out with sayaka, really ruined her character.
Edit: another reason that i dislike is how nice she was, I found it annoying. Maybe the forcing us to hang out with her is a bad point-
But it was annoying skdbdkdb-
Sayaka isn't a bad character, she's just not MY type of character.
But Sayaka isn't a snake, I do agree with that.
I think they did that so we'd be fooled into thinking she's a heroine.
@@NaMi-ic8rs still forced
Is there a character we WEREN'T forced to hand out with? Outside of the FTEs (which Sayaka has only 2) you don't really get to chose who do you hang out with, you're just doing what the plot asks you to, so I never really understood that argument.
@@zerothefaceless4888 We were forced to hang out with Maki, Kaito and Kazuichi, also Chiaki..and Kyoko..yeah
@@JoaoPedro-eq3hj Yet people give them the easy time of it
i have a confession...
whenever i see sayakas sprites or even just her name...it makes me smile
me too, she’s one of my favorite (if not my favorite) girls in the first game. i love her so much
i feel the same way as you
She’s honestly adorable
same i love her
I keep coming back to this, thank you for being hope for the Sayaka fandom.
@Lol Gotta be loyal. 😄
When the one everyone says Sayaka was a snake to says she isn’t a snake
And still likes her you know she isn’t a snake
There’s a fandom for the characters too?
This loyalty is rare, Makoto. Don't lose it.
i love sayaka and whoever calls her a snake can catch these hands ❤️
PERIOD
But sayaka is so boring and has no personality what soever
@@Cuyite Coughs in Sayaka had a personality
@@Hailnxy leave
AMEN
Why do people like, hate Sayaka but support or perfectionize problematic characters... like Kokichi, Nagito, Celestia, Junko, etc. Not everyone does, but why. I'm a Kokichi fan, but I know he was an asshole and manipulated Gonta. I simply like Kokichi, but I'll never ever like his actions (in the first place, I think he was driven to that because of the killing game...?).
I just dont like her character..?
She wasn't that interesting to me and was just your generic nice girl next door.
People like junko, and toko/genocider Jack are interesting to me.
They have major personalities that stick out more.
I just found her boring. I wouldn't say she's a snake, but most definitely is way at the bottom of my favroite characters list.
Would say she's 2nd to last.
@@vivid.qreams1508 And that's valid. I'm talking about the bullshit people who call her a snake.
people calling sayaka a snake :
celeste, kokichi, and byakuya being actual rude, manipulative, asshole liars who caused the death of a few people in the game :
people loving them :
Honestly she’s the most real character on this series in my opinion, any Human being would be completely broken down if they were stuck with a bunch of strangers, being threatened to kill or you’ll be stuck here forever, and shown a footage of ur friends and families dead, not to mention she DOES have a successful career so it’s no wonder why she wanted to kill 😂
*Also y’all DO realize Kirigiri kinda did the same thing to makoto in like trial 5 right?*
Lol, I don’t understand why people keep calling her a snake, like, if anyone be in the same situation that she was, they would certainly do the same thing she did: use the most naive and stupid person to blame it when do a murder and turn someone who asked something into a victim (wich is a very good plan).
But, before people start judging me, most of this things are my opinion and (liking or not) Makoto is very naive and stupid and you know it (but that‘s also what makes him my favorite DR protag)
Edit: I just realize that I got 100 likes, ty
@Lauchianto in the game, both Makoto and Sayaka say that they didn’t talked to each other even they’re in the same school. And the fact that her “bond” with Makoto was stronger than with Chihiro made all of this easier, after all, she quickly discovered that he was in love with her.
My friend who hasn’t played danganronpa yet saw pictures of makoto and she said he was *h o t*
No. Some people have morals and some people have enough resilience to...yknow, not murder another human being. Even under stress. Don't believe me? Check all the survivors in every game. Mostly all the victims too.
@@fallenprometheus Even so, out of all the killers in this game, she had the best reason to do what she did (except for Sakura). What she did was wrong, but to call her a snake and then adore everyone else is not only hypocritical, but straight up wrong
@@chinyereudeh3405 I'm not particularly a fan of Celestia. I love her design but that's pretty much it. I don't think I particularly like any of the killers in the first game. Don't immediately lop me in with the rest of the fanbase. Also, I don't think murdering someone like she did to be reasonable or justifiable.
Aeris really out here defending Danganronpa's most underrated girls (Sayaka, Akane, Himiko and Tenko) and we love to see it
Next thing you know she’ll start defending Chiaki and Mahiru :)
@@idkwut2callmyself561 i don't think she'll defend chiaki since chiaki is populer in the fandom
@@kwksmxndjkska1328 that’s true tho I have heard some people hating her because they think she is ruining the whole Nagito x Hajime thing
@@idkwut2callmyself561 I've never seen any single person who said that
@@idkwut2callmyself561 I would love to see her defend Mahiru
I called Sayaka a snake once as a joke, but I don't actually hate her. I think she's well written for her role in the story, but I can't say I was super sad when she died. I've never seriously called her a snake, and I've only ever called her that as a joke to my sister.
Kyoko: Knows the risk of the class trial and still throws Makoto under the bus.
Celeste: Knows the risk of the class trial, and tries to throw everyone under the bus for her own selfish desires.
Sayaka: Doesn't know the risk of the class trial and just wants to get back to her idol group.
Fandom: KYOKO IS A QUEEN!!!
Fandom: CELESTE IS A QUEEN!!!
Also Fandom: SAYAKA IS A SNAKE!!!
I have been waiting for this moment since i got into the danganronpa community
I hope this video will show the evidence of why sayaka is an amazing, underrated and overhated character!!!
AAAAAAAAAA IM EXCITED
Ikr? People don't realise that, while Sayaka did indeed betray Makoto, so did every other blackened in THH. (With an exception, ofc)
@@sauce4279 I know right? If you must hate sayaka for this reason, then you should hate others who betrayed makoto too!
@@sauce4279 Not to mention Sayaka literally wrote 11037 in an attempt to save Naegi from suspicion and blame
@@everythingz888 makoto said she might have just been trying to get revenge for her failed murder attempt
literally every murderer betrayed the whole cast , exept Nanami , Gokuhara and Ogami , why do people hate on Sayaka?
NOTES:
A. (16/07/21) Asian folks have asked that you don't call Asian people (in general, not just asian characters) snakes. please don't try to call other characters 'snakes' or any kind of animal to 'compare' Sayaka's treatment in fandom to other characters; this is still dehumanising and racist. There's a post in the description from someone who actually is Asian explaining this. I'm sure that you can all find non-racist ways of expressing your mind. Though it's too late to change the video itself, I have changed the title itself to reflect this.
B. (23/10/20) The credits are inaccurate to what song is playing during them. Usually I would use a mashup to close out the video's credits, but this one got copyright slammed. CZcams doesn't give me the means to appeal it even though it's transformative and falls under fair use.
a. Patrons will get to see the video with the regular credits music (bc i do not care about monetising the unlisted version)
b. the original (and full) track can be found here: rave.dj/V0Fu3_1XLwNENg
nice
Nice lol hehshhs
Holy shit well done
Intense piano music moment
YESSSS I NEEDED THIS
It's rude to call Japanese people snakes
People who are trying to describe the texture of Mondo's hair:
corn
@@DetectiveNyx fair enough
Dead armidillo!
Also another thing with Sayaka not being aware of the class trial. She COULD HAVE easily thought that if she killed one person and escaped to not only check on her idol group but get help for the remaining people still trapped.
As a dedicated Sayaka fan, I am very happy for this one.
Same
Same
Same
Same
Same
How is calling Sayaka a "snake" racist "even if it's not connected to her being Japanese person"? Just gonna throw something sensitive out to your viewers without explaining it at all?? I tried researching it, I didn't find a single instance in which it's a racially charged word towards Japanese people- or any person of color for that matter (if I'm wrong, anyone's free to tell me, I've been looking for a while).
If "snake" is to be a racist comment, it would be because it's made with malicious intent to degrade Sayaka for being Japanese. Used by itself, it's no more racially charged than calling someone a potato head.
Yeah, Sayaka doesn't deserve being called a snake for the definition you gave in your video, I agree on that. It just seems pretty reckless of you to make a guess on a racist term like that & then say, "but as a white person, this isn't my field to speak in". Um, yeah, if you're white & unwilling to give some sort of explanation other than "this is kinda racist, but I didn't check, so don't quote me since this is just a small comment anyways" then it's pretty negligent of you & you shouldn't have made that remark in the first place. You know how the internet works, a lot of people will take the word of someone they look up to without researching further into matters themselves. This just looks like you're having foot-in-mouth syndrome, unintentionally stirring the conflict pot for no reason, and being another "woke" white person.
i apologise. i did not make it clear why this is racist, and this is my failure. to clarify, it's like when people call Kokichi a r*t - even when it isn't racially charged, it's still comparing a person of colour to a literal _animal_ , which is generally quite a racist thing to do (especially if the connotation is meant to be negative). it honestly doesn't matter if it wasn't the _intention_ to degrade Sayaka for her race because the degradation for her race is still there - the sneaky racism is the worst kind. with blatant racism it's not really expected of poc to forgive the people yelling it, but if you make an ignorant comment, poc are basically obligated to be nice to you or else they're the asshole (even though they're not). even if you do believe sayaka is deceitful beyond all reason (which isn't a racist opinion, just blatantly incorrect), there's plenty of non-animalistic things you could compare her to.
i've definitely seen a lot of poc criticise rowling's racist decision to make her Korean character essentially a giant snake (like not a metaphorical one, a literal one), and even though i'm very aware rowling is a TERF bitch not worth anyone's time, she still has a large following and legacy with those books and it's impossible to write her off as just 'one bitch with a book'.
@@DetectiveNyx I can see where you're coming from but I feel like since it has nothing to do with her race and isn't at all based upon her race, it isn't racist. The effect would still be the exact same if she was white, the only thing that could even be slightly racist is the coincidence that she happens to be asian and is also being called a regular and general insult.
I'm not saying your opinion is invalid I'm just saying it's a little bit like you're jumping to conclusions. Not trying to sound mean btw, I hope I don't come across like that.
I thought people called her a snake bc of her hair
Conclusion: sayaka is a good person and the danganronpa fandom is exaggerating the one thing she did wrong even though there are multiple characters who have done horrible things that are more horrible than what sayaka did
Yeah, just like in the Touhou fandom, people get exaggerating any character's personalities, and kept them better as canon than the canon they were written...
The sayaka-is-a-snake people also made reasons to hate her like "she's annoying" bruh, kokichi was also annoying until character development. like, bro dont blame her for getting killed first.
he got character development? i thought he just got worse as the game went on and then finally died to my relief (but i couldn't even enjoy it because he spent the whole trial going 'woooo am i dead or am i not dead woooo'
@@DetectiveNyx oh, i meant the sassiness, rudeness, and mocking peoples death, that's it
Kokichi's character what?🤨
Be like me, like both Leon and Sayaka, understand their fears, motives and flaws, and not call either of them snakes.
As a huge Leon fan, I think it's hypocritical af to condemn Sayaka. The main argument would be that "Sayaka got Leon killed", but in that case Sayaka fans could say "Well Leon got Sayaka killed" and the argument would keep going. As Makoto said in a very cliché way at the end of the first class trial, it's Monokuma's fault. Not Leon's and not Sayaka's.
// v3 chapter 4 spoilers
.
.
.
no one calls Miu a snake despite her having done almost the exact thing as Sayaka (different circumstances)
not saying miu is a snake tho,,
I mean, Miu tried to frame Kaito for killing Kokichi but that plan were backfired when Kokichi used Gonta to kill Miu and frame Kaito.
Sayaka: Is slowly driven to insanity because the death of her only friends who she treats and thinks of as family
Celeste: Acts emotionlessly, manipulates others, convinces others they could die if they don't immediately face their situation
Kokichi: has snakes for hair, GETS 3 PEOPLE KILLED AND DOESN'T GIVE A DAMN (at least acts like it- by popular theory)
Junko: KILLS EVERYONE WHO FALLS IN LOVE WITH HER JUST FOR SHITS AND GIGGLES
Fandom: damn sayaka stop being a snake..
@@megansstallion818 no, im just saying she didnt know the rules, she never tried to frame makoto so shes just as much of a snake as all the other blackeneds
even if it's a shorter video than usual, i love your infodump videos. (hopefully i didnt say that in a rude way lol) but these types of videos are top! :)
thank you very much! i've really enjoyed your releases as well, i've still got to get through bingewatching them lol
Is this a crossover episode?
Hi danganmandy
Tbh i really REALLY feel bad for her. She sounded like a super nice person. Also nice to see ya talking about the first dr game, i noticed you didnt talk much about it so its nice finally seeing your opinions of it. Anyways im super looking forward to it!
"She voted him without remorse"
This is objectively false. She literally told him after the trial that she doesn't expect forgiveness and that it's entirely her fault this happened. After Alter Ego saved him from his execution, she went down to the basement to save him from there and told him that she was wrong and still doesn't expect to be forgiven once again. She was obviously remorseful and regretful of her actions and didn't want to sacrifice Makoto. She started trusting him wholeheartedly from that point onwards to make up for her mistakes. Sure, Makoto is a forgiving person and only blames Junko, but Kyoko made some effort, too. Now, most of your points about Sayaka weren't bad and you didn't call Aoi and Kyoko "snakes", but you were honestly misrepresenting Kyoko's motivations and actions to an extent there.
Plugging your Kokichi salt is also unnecessary in my opinion, especially when it's clear you don't understand his character. He's definitely not a "uwu did nothing wrong" type of character, but he didn't get Gonta and Miu killed for shit and giggles either.
i may have misremembered what kirigiri's role is, and i do apologise for that. again, my goal wasn't to insist that kirigiri was the secret true snake all along. (though my point was that in the moment, kirigiri showed no remorse for voting naegi and only showed remorse after he lived - which never got disproven.)
that said, i will not apologise for plugging salt for Inferior Twink Celes. i've made efforts to understanding him and tried to dig into his character, but once you dig below the superficial, he's completely anemic compared to his forebearers (whether that's togami and komaeda, or celes, is honestly irrelevant; he's inferior to all 3. togami and komaeda had clear ideologies and the narrative presented her side as an equal to naegi's and let players cast judgement on her motive, while kokichi gets very clear bias in v3 through the whole thing).
@@DetectiveNyx I think it's moreso that Kirigiri *reluctantly* voted for Naegi, because she had no other choice at the time but to throw him under the bus or let everyone else vote for her instead and thus kill her. It's still shitty of her obviously, but it's not like she's a terrible person who'd apathetically send someone to their death and feel absolutely nothing about it, even if she thought she needs to prioritize her life for the truth to come out. That's all I'm saying. I know you weren't calling her a snake for doing that and I mentioned that in my response, but I apologize in case that wasn't clear!
I don't think you need to apologize. At least that wasn't my intention when I expressed my opinion. That said, Ouma is a completely different type of character and not much like Ko and Togami aside from filling in the "antagonist" role (heck, those two aren't even much alike aside from some superficial similarities). Whereas Ko and Togami had their ideologies and motivations explained to us, the players, from the very start, Ouma's were deliberately kept ambiguous until V3-5's post trial segment, where his intent was finally cleared and we found out that he's been acting in order to end the killing game from the start. You might say that there's room for doubt and that it's possible he was lying so Kaito would go along with his plans, but the motive video is a trustworthy source and aligns with his final words.
Your counterargument might be something along the lines of "it's possible his actions from V3-1 until V3-4 imply a completely different intent from what was presented in the final couple chapters", but the only difference between him and the other two antagonists is that their motivations were explained at the start and his were at the end. It doesn't make them any less "valid" in my opinion. If anything, it's akin to Ko's attempt to murder the entire cast. We don't know that it's because they were remnants of despair until the very end. Which definitely isn't a flaw in Ko's writing and it isn't in Ouma's case, either.
I admittedly don't understand where the "narrative is biased towards Ouma" point is coming from. His actions were always perceived in negative light by everyone else. Shuichi spends V3-5 hoping it's Kaito who's alive over Ouma (which is understandable considering he was closer to Kaito throughout the killing game, but still, you get the point). If you mean the fact that they sympathized with him in V3-6 after they found out the truth then that's not bias either. There's a difference between sympathy and condonation. Sympathizing is just understanding and feeling bad for him whilst recognizing that he went about his good intentions the wrong way. Kaito himself specifically states something along the lines of "Kokichi is pretty smart and his plan is the shit but I'll never forgive him for messing around".
There's honestly no bias from the narrative in my opinion. He's presented as a sympathetic person, but his actions are never excused or even forgiven. I'll happily re-evaluate my own conclusions if you do provide me with the evidence that made you believe the narrative is biased towards him.
To be completely honest with you, I prefer Komaeda over him (if it's not obvious from my profile picture) and think he's a much more multifaceted and multilayered character compared to Ouma. I just felt like I had to say this, because I still think he's a pretty well-written character all things considered.
the issue is ouma's motive to end the killing game and his lies to hide that intention are all he has; going through his FTEs, his salmon events, his love hotel, they're all very illuminating to the fact that ouma is a plot device rather than a character. he's designed around a Big Reveal At The End, not from a central character motive (and 'end the killing game because killing bad' is a pretty weak character motive for such an important character, not to mention he ignores it anyway to get rid of iruma rather than just fucking off). komaeda sells his heel-faced turn on the Ultimates; ouma doesn't sell anything.
"he's presented as a sympathetic person" and that's the issue. the shit he pulls is unforgivable, and hence unsympathetic. murdering 2 people for your dream of a gothic lolita vampire mansion full of ouji vampire butlers? that's unsympathetic and unforgivable, but the narrative doesn't try to make you think it is forgivable. with ouma, even in moments where he's portrayed as a dunderhead or evil in the moment, the writing will make some Big Reveal later to make him look like the master of the game and sympathetic, and that's what frustrates me. the writing never made togami or komaeda look sympathetic to this degree. i have a video lined up eventually for talking more in depth about what a bad antagonist kokichi is, but safe to say that all his simps trying to insist to me that he's actually a Masterfully Written Character have made me despise him more, if i'm honest.
@@DetectiveNyx As someone who found Ouma's core motivation underwhelming compared to Komaeda's I recongize that it's just how I personally feel about it and still wouldn't call it terrible writing, so I disagree with this sentiment. A simpler ideology doesn't make him a bad character. He's *not* Komaeda so I think comparing them too much is counterproductive. Besides, the intrigue of his character lies in how he goes about his belief and his flaws as a person. He's no blank slate. He's also not the only person who actively acts in order to put an end to the killing game, because they view the killing game as a bad thing. Kaede, for example, does that too. Does that make her a poorly written character too? Obviously not. She's quite the opposite with how her flaws are so carefully interwoven into the plot.
I think you're overplaying how terrible his actions were. Sure, he's at fault for Miu's and Gonta's deaths, no one's denying that here, but you're also ignoring the fact that Miu *attempted to murder him* and went as far as to install a specific setting for his avatar to prevent him from directly retaliating against her. So many people miss the point of Gonta's character and think he was coerced or something, when in reality he agreed with Ouma's plan *out of his own accord* . This doesn't absolve Ouma of any responsibility of course, but he's definitely not as bad as you're making him out to be, not to the point where he doesn't deserve the least amount of sympathy. You might say that he should've just told everyone about Miu's plans, but there was no guarantee they'd believe him and with how powerful her inventions were, which Ouma saw for himself, there was good reason to believe that she's dangerous. I don't see the issue with making him sympathetic. They didn't try to force it down our throats. They still condemned his actions and I've already explained that in my earlier comment. And honestly, I disagree that they didn't make Komaeda as sympathetic (which there's nothing wrong with, those characters aren't meant to be demonized). Anyway, I've said my piece. I'm not trying to make you love him but, with all due respect, I do think you're biased against him for some reason. Thanks for taking the time and effort to respond to a nobody like me though!
@@gamo9248 I think the problem is not his wish to end the killing game being in itself terrible writing, but that his actions literally make no sense within that context. He's a troll who had a ridiculous last-minute motivation supplied him by the writers to supply intrigue and give the audience another of those patented Dangonronpa twists. But when you try to take players by surprise by contradicting everything that's been previously established about a character for the sake of cheap thrills, that's bad writing.
He's supposed to be a) smart and b) secretly altruistic with a burning hatred of the killing game, but he spends the whole game fanning the flames of suspicion and hatred among the student body, cruelly insulting everyone in the mostly crassly insensitive ways, undermining trust and group cohesion, manipulating the credulous Gonta and having him use his strength in the service of dubious goals, and finally directly masterminding multiple deaths. If you're really interested in ending the killing game and you're smart, you work to strength the bonds between the students and deepen trust, since uncertainty and fear will only lead to hasty, selfish and destructive actions. For one thing, if Kokichi has made clear his intent to win the game by strongly implying that he means to commit murder and have everyone else executed, what's to stop someone else from deciding that the others are all doomed anyway and they'd better save their own skin by committing a murder first? Even when he had actually good ideas like getting everyone to watch their videos together he was such an ass that all his goals looked suspicious by dint of association with him. An actual smart and altruistic character would have earnestly laid out the compelling reasons for watching the videos, showed everyone theirs first to build trust and openness, and perhaps managed to avert the whole case two disaster.
But it's chapter 4 wherein that wretch Kokichi really crosses the Rubicon. Apparently suspicious of Miu's intentions in creating her simulated world (with good reason: anyone with even an iota of sense could have predicted that the whole simulation was nothing but a glorified deathtrap specifically engineered by Miu to commit murder, and the failure of the characters to take the threat seriously after having already endured three class trials is utterly ridiculous; and don't get me started on how Miu ever thought she'd be able to get away with it if she had succeeded in murdering Kokichi), Kokichi doesn't do the sensible thing and tell everyone that going into the simulation is a bad idea. Instead he actually conspires with Monokuma to give the students a further incentive to enter the lion's den. There was *every* guarantee that the others would have believed him if he'd opened up about Miu's plans, because have you seen Miu try to lie? She sucks at it. And he would have had an even better chance of convincing them if he hadn't been burning goodwill since day one with his disgusting and slimy behaviour. And Miu is a total wimp - once it was made clear to her that people were on to her games, I doubt she'd dare to make another attempt; after all, the whole point of the simulation for her was to create an environment she was in total control of so that she felt secure enough to commit murder. I don't see her having the nerve to do anything outside the simulation, especially once she'd been confronted about this murder plan and probably crumbled and admitted to everything. Even if that were not to be the case, stopping Miu by murdering her first is clearly unthinkable, and they could have taken other steps like confined her to her room or locked her out of her lab. So as any kind of excuse for Kokichi's actions, the idea that Miu was dangerous or that nobody would have listened to Kokichi is not remotely convincing. He killed Miu because he saw it as an essential part of his absurd plan and for the lulz (but really because the writers wanted a surprising murder to happen, and indirect murder via persuasion is a great idea, if you don't then try to rehabilitate the asshole who masterminded it in an insultingly slipshod fashion - if they wanted to have someone like Kokichi, they shouldn't have tried to redeem him, because there is no redeeming such a person).
And you say Gonta agreed with the plan of his own accord, but we've seen throughout the entire game how suggestible he is, and that Kokichi has already made him do things he regrets - the Insect Meet And Greet fiasco springs to mind. Gonta is so mild-mannered and pliable that he'll do whatever he's told by a cunning manipulator like Kokichi, who could probably convince him that down is up. Frankly, after he'd seen that Flashback light, he would have done whatever Kokichi suggested. Kokichi could have told him not to worry his pretty little head about it and that it was all lies (which, spoilers, it was. So our brilliant Kokichi either didn't consider that Monokuma could be lying to them or did but thought it unworthy of mentioning to the others. And Gonta died because of the contents of this light). Kokichi instead talked him into a murder in which Kokichi's life would be at no risk whatsoever and both Miu and Gonta would die pointlessly. Pace your protestations, Kokichi could have avoided all this by simply not going to the roof or making sure never to go anywhere in the Virtual World without multiple witnesses. So this was a double murder, culprit Kokichi, as sure as if he'd put a gun to their heads and pulled the trigger himself, but he hammed it up in the trial and seemed to relish trolling Shuuichi and the others. He claimed Gonta came up with some elements of the plan, but that definitely sounds like a lie.
Then he goes full supervillain, and it emerges that he's been acting so reprehensibly for no other reason than to confuse the mastermind as to his true motives so that they'll be unsure who's in the Exisal. And... this accomplishes what, exactly? Did he really expect the mastermind to play by the rules and admit that they got the killer wrong so now the game's over? What made him think the mastermind wouldn't see through his plan? It was a pretty obvious bluff, in the end, with no guarantee that even if Shuuichi hadn't called it right the mastermind wouldn't have decided to just execute who was in the Exisal anyway, lie or cheat somehow, kill them and all and make a new killing game or do anything else for that matter. The idea that the mastermind had to strictly abide by their own rules was a big thing in Danganronpa 1, even though it wasn't even true there, but there's no reason whatsoever to think that it would have to hold in this scenario. So this genius plan that everyone endlessly praises was pretty foolish and pointless, from what I can tell. Oh, well, maybe I'm just too dumb to get it. Anyway, the foregoing means that all of Kokichi's behaviour up until this point and the flimsy justifications we were given amounted to precisely nothing, leaving Kokichi as nothing more than an unrealistic plot device with no reason for acting the way he did other than that it was entertaining and no real coherent in-story justification.
I understand why people might like Kokichi, since he has amusing and sometimes intriguing dialogue with good voice acting, he plays off certain other characters well, and a liar is interesting to have in a killing game, but the actual narrative itself would have been far stronger without him, or with his role significantly revised.
He could be the worst character in the entire franchise, because he single-handedly torpedoes a good third of V3. Also, I loathe everything about him. It's pretty offensive to be sold someone like Kokichi in the guise of some kind of nuanced, grey or admirable character. I'm pretty sure that if they were actually in a killing game with him, most of his fans would not feel the way they do about him now, let's put it that way.
You can honestly like every danganronpa character if u do their fte's and look into their backstories, i dislike none of them now
What about haji towa?
@@shirogwyn5952 well I mean haiji is like common sense
(I mean ok as a character minus that one line he’s not that bad but that one line…ICK. I hate him6
Faxxx, she's not my favorite but she's not a snake
Sayaka isn't a snake. I just find her annoying
I don’t understand why people say Sayaka is a snake. Isn’t the entire reason she writes Leon’s name to not have people decide to kill off Makoto? And the fact no one knew what would happen to everyone else until Monokuma just said why.
There should be a Danganronpa: Second Chance, where someone decides to resurrect the first few eliminated characters in THH, GD, and KH to compete in another killing game.
Here's the cast:
THH: Sayaka, Mukuro, Leon, Chihiro, Mondo, Kiyotaka
GD: Imposter, Teruteru, Mahiru, Peko, Hiyoko
KH: Rantaro, Kaede, Ryoma, Kirumi, Angie
Also, Kaede survives this time. For real.
Beautfiul idea. 10/10.
Also, may I please use this to make an animatic series of that? I wanna make executions and all. Going all out.
@@lycheedragoncookie2826 Sure! Just don't forget to give credit.
@@rextanglr4056 I will don’t worry!
I actually love this idea. Instead of resurrected characters who died later. You reassurance the characters that haven’t gotten as much screen time
sayaka is one of the most realistic characters in the entire franchise but no ones ready for that conversation- being honest if i was in a killing game, i would probably act exactly like her and so would everyone else
[danganronpa 3 chapter 4 spoilers] also characters like miu are still well liked throughout the fandom despite her also doing exactly what sayaka did (planned to commit a murder to pin the blame on someone else) except for more selfish, unjustified reasons
@@pedrovitor5324 if i would even make it to the first trial i most likely wouldn’t contribute much or at all to the trial 💔
I'm guessing this is about how no one knew a trial would happen until the meat-up after the murder. I think your point is going to be quite understandable.
Celestia backstabbing hifumi just to get vampire butlers
Kyoko is a more of a “snake” than sayaka using their logic. Kyoko was fully aware of the rules yet still went through with her actions, showing no regard for him until the execution just did happened to not work. Sayaka had no idea everyone would die, thinking she could kill one person, frame another, and leave because she’s was WORRIED about her FRIENDS.
seeing how most of the fan favorite characters are the foil characters to the main character: Togami, Nagito, Kokichi, and Junko
I just get the impression that most of the fan base are just memey edgelords. ngl
sadly that has been the shift over the years
Nah Togami is not a fan favorite trust me but I do agree with the rest. They seem to like those that are very eccentric, but not characters that are normal.
As someone who first introduction to the fandom was the anime, I am happy to say that when I watched it, I adored Sayaka sure she didn't get much development in the anime but when I saw the trial I cried for both her and Leon, when I saw her having a panic attack and lashing out at Makoto I just wanted to give the poor girl a hug, I never hated her, I absolutely adore this sweet girl, she may not be my favorite but she is not by any means a snake
Actually, I remember rewatching the sixth trial of v3 recently. I specifically remember when they were talking about Kaede’s plan. Monosuke literally said “what a snake” referring to Kaede specifically. Kinda sus when you think about how Sayaka is significantly less loved. Actually that’s probably because she wasn’t the protagonist.
Sayaka: was a scared and desperate teenager who wanted to save her idol group and had no idea anything would happen to Makoto or her other classmates
Everyone: sNaKe
Celeste: manipulated Hifumi into killing Taka by telling him that Taka molested her and hiding Alter Ego, using him like a puppet and murdering him knowing full well of the graduation rule for no reason other than the money (which she would use for selfish reasons)
Everyone: Omg iLy CelEsTe
accurate... 😕😕 i also love celeste but hating on sayaka when you love characters who did the same does not make sense
I don't think anyone should call sayaka a snake, that's what I agree on. I'm sure Celeste had another reason, not just money. I've heard celeste wanted to see her cat again, but I don't know if it's true
@@Angel..32 not true, she never mentioned her cat in the class trial of the game, all she wanted was money and she herself said everything she did was to get her castle filled with handsome men.
Meanwhile Kokichi...
i finally found people who genuinely like sayaka and call her a snake everytime i mention her-
Like honestly, very true.
Like I don't like Sayaka (She's more in the grey area for me, cause neutral) but like I didn't think she was a snake, she was just thinking irrationally at the time.
Like there's way worst snakey characters compared to her imo, but like we ain't tryna start things, so I just 🚶♂️
oh hi- 👁👄👁
@@lovelyarcelia5897 Hello :3
Yeah, I feel like most DR fans kinda forgot how Sayaka was in stuff like some of her free-time events. At most she'd only defend herself and object till the end if she did a murder that was an accident caused by her mental breakdowns that you mentioned in the video (I lazily say that only due to me encountering a fanfic that basically went like that for Sayaka).
I'm pretty sure DR: The Animation also had Kyoko say Sayaka probably regretted doing the attempted murder based on her dying message. Rather briefly due to the weirdly short episode count the show had, but it was still there.
Wow, I didn't notice how the 1st case in V3 was practically how the case would have went if Sayaka's plan was successful until this video. Still won't stop me from asking for that "what if" though, lol.
People in the comments comparing her to Celeste:
Me, who realizes Celeste is also vastly mischaracterized by the fandom juxtaposed to characters like Byakuya and Kokichi, and is a huge fan of both Celeste and Sayaka: *sweats*
Also im going to say this: Sayaka should have survived ( at least a little longer like up until chap 3) and be the main assistant and Kyoko would be a mentor to her and Makoto and while be helpful, wouldn't make the trials too easy.
Bruh
@@piettro4636 Hey- let people have opinions and ideas, no need to be an ass abt it... everyone has unqiue opinions so you should let people be validated and feel comfortable with sharing them... as long as it isn't p//dophellia or ab//sive
@@inzain2743 I literally only said "Bruh"
@@piettro4636 I don't know what that means so... thanks?
@@fruitloops2058 I disagree, I think her death was necessary right there to the story to flow
I can agree with that title.
Same
@@1Makomako suddenly there’s 2 makotos, I think at least one must be false hmmmm
There’s 1 impostor among us
"Sayaka is a snake-"
Egg boi: NO THATS WRONG
I can understand why Leon would go back into the room to kill Sayaka. They're trapped in a building with no conceivable way of escape, and someone just tried to murder him. Under the stress of it all, he might have seen that killing her was the only way of guaranteeing his safety. I'd imagine the paranoia of living with the person who tried to stab you to death could become unbearable after a while.
That being said, still murder.
I find Sayaka's reaction after watching the motive video the most realistic among all the characters, if i were in the same situation as Sayaka's i probably would act the same way as she did.
I would like to think Sayaka would try to confess but she would be conflicted to do it but it’s possible that Makoto would try to defend her.
Edit: Who knows, if it wasn’t the first game, I could see the POV switch from Makoto to Kyoko and we play as her for the rest of the game. I would also think that Makoto would become the Rival character alongside Byakuya and both of them would fuck with her for the entire game until the end.
Here's my theory, every danganronpa character is a snake
this might be the worst take i've ever seen, congrats
@@DetectiveNyx to quote Ghandi, "you can't discriminate if you hate everybody equally."
to quote Gandhi, "on a scale of 1 to 10, I am now 255 points of pure nuclear rage"
@@DetectiveNyx (I am just joking tho I really like Sayaka, she's one of my favorites from the first game)
You can’t be racist if you hate everyone equally
Sayaka worked so hard to become a pop idol. That’s why she tried to kill Leon. Sayaka was desperate to get out, just like everyone else. The others aren’t different from her or Leon, they were all getting desperate, especially after alter ego died. Sayaka isn’t a snake, she probably just wanted to see her family and pop group again
I like both her and Celeste.
SPOILERS
Like Chiaki is my favorite, and her being the traitor made me like her more. Celeste killing, Sayaka’s attempted murder. This stuff adds more character. Celeste in the Chapter 3 trial was a whole different Celeste than before, and you finally got to see the real her. With Sayaka, she tried to commit a sneaky murder, and 11037 pulled an uno reverse card, nothing to hate her for. So many other characters have killed, but I’m not gonna specify, since this isn’t about comparing.
@John Powers ok? Did you not read my comment? I’m saying I don’t care. So many characters have done problematic stuff, and it’s fictional.
I like Sayaka for having a realistic reaction and i like celeste because i find her an interesting and good character ( character not person )
when ppl stan togami but hate sayaka:🤡
(whispers) it's the misogyny
Bold of you to assume I dont like both
I don't find it to be misogynistic tbh, but if you really look at Danganronpa closely, they flesh out the male characters wayyy more than the female ones. The male ones always have the more important roles in the plot, and the females either encourage and help them or are just plain annoying. Even when we thought we would get a female protagonist for once in v3, she got killed off immediately after the first chapter and got replaced with a male
Im not a feminist or anything but those are just things I've noticed lmao
@@oreozp1335 true, but imo they give the largest character development and depth to the female cast members
You can see that with:
Junko, Aoi, Sakura, Peko (kinda), Hyoko (Originally), Tenko, Himiko
And
*AKANE* (which Aeris made a video about too :D)
Me, who likes them both, because I don’t hate any character in danganronpa except H*ji Towa.
fans: sayaka sucks! she betrayed makoto!!!!
fans when they see kokichi,celeste, and miu: awooga
to be fair i also go awooga when i see celes
Sayaka is a snake in the sense that she is adorable as heck and if you boop her snoot she freaks out with anxiety. Precious.
I actually like saykya...
can we have a "kokichi nagito are responsible" death counter?
We did and then they broke it
@@DetectiveNyx
Nagito:
Made Teru kill the imposter which led to his execution
tried to kill everyone on the island but ended up killing Chiaki only
He killed himself as well.
Counter: 8 deaths (if his plan succeeded); 4 deaths (canonically)
Kokichi:
Made Gonta kill Miu which led to his execution
Got Kaito killed along with himself (although, Maki kinda helped with that as well)
Counter: 4 deaths
Sayaka: Kills Leon out of fear and desperation to get out
Fandom: SHE IS AN ABSOLUTE SNAKE
Kokichi: Does much worst
Fandom: AWWW, YOU PERFECT LITTLE BEAN!
But in all seriousness, I love both Sayaka and Kokichi, I could never hate them! Same with Hiyoko, I like her and think her backstory is sad
Sayaka: is overcome by fear of her entire life crashing down, and everything she worked so hard for disappearing to the point she is driving to do something irrational
Fandom: what a snake
Nagito: haha gym go boom
Fandom: OMG MY MISUNDERSTOOD BABYYYYYYYY
I personally love nagito and sayaka. I prefer nagito a bit more than sayaka, but shes literally so misunderstood.
I like both nagito and Sayaka (I also simp for them)
I dislike both.
Finally SOMEONE who appreciates her, she deserves more love.
Wow I never realized how similar Kaede and Sayaka were until now.
Sayaka's sprite with class trial stand..That made my day.
The mindset of the fandom makes me lose faith in humanity