Removing sprint would make the job of the map designers way more easy. With sprint in the equation, they have to design maps around it. Same with clamber. Its awkward having a map with a bunch of random ass ledges that say "hey clamber up here pal!". There really hasnt been standout maps designed since Halo 3 (The Pit, Narrows, Guardian). Every Halo title after that, had dreadful maps. Crazy that a game from 2007 has maps with such a high replay value while the sprint based maps dont offer the same spark.
I think the idea is to remove the need for good map design by increasing mechanical complexity. Halo CE-3 derived most of their depth from map design. Halo 5 tries to replace that by deriving depth from core mechanics. The issue is that you get diminishing returns. Halo 5 is a shallow game.
This is just a big circle jerk. Halo reach, 4 and 5 all have unique and memorable maps. You wouldn’t know about them because you don’t play the games, which is fine, but don’t pretend like you disliking the games is proof of them being bad. You’re entitled to dislike them as much as you want but maybe you’d have a better time if you spent some time actually learning how to play the new games rather than bitching about them online
@@l4l01234 See, this is the problem with this issue and why it has become so heated. The only argument from people who support advanced mobility is "I like it" and then usually some sort of insult. Meanwhile the argument from people who are against it can go into great detail about how it has dramatically changed the game. Perhaps it speaks to the immaturity of younger Halo fans (late teens, early 20s) who can't hack it that a game they grew up on gets ripped into. TLDR: You sound like a child "bUt i LikE iT".
I agree I don't think they will remove it I've played Halo since CE and would love for sprint to be gone but I don't see it happening in Halo Infinite. I will admit sprint/thrust/clamber does add another degree of skill because it adds more mechanics to master thus making it harder to "master" the game/gameplay especially when in a battle against someone.
Looks like you’re right. Kiddos got what they wanted in Halo 6. Now they can continue smashing their thumb on the aim stick over and over again just to attain normal moving speed. So fun!
I've been saying this for years, but sprint is an illusion that has no place in Halo's multiplayer. Adding sprint to the series is just as detrimental as removing sprint from a series like Call of Duty.
@@SonGoku-hr5kz Can't do that either because then they'll have to create specific maps to cater to sprint, bullet spread and speed won't be balanced and much more. Not only that, if they are trying to please the Halo 5 fanbase that will kill the game for them. They can't please both fanbases (old and new) and they will have to choose one.
@@ryanb.7751 The older halo maps have to be made much larger, which is a big change the maps have to make, and even when you do sprint (as seen in the footage where u run in halo 5's truth vs. you walking in halo 2's midship), you're still slower than halo 2's walking speed because of the map enlargenment! This is detrimental and unnecesssry for halo's map design.
@@SonGoku-hr5kz eldewrito isnt the best example. Look at Halo 4. Sprint was the biggest criticism, map size, bullet tracking and spread got affected. So when Halo 5 came out, they had to tweak everything to accommodate sprint, bigger maps, bullet damage and spread, shields cant charge while running.
@@dartraider8048 original Halo was inspired by Doom and Unreal. They even took the teleporter concept and announcer saying “double kill!” from it too. Young sons will never know
There literally is not debate to be had. Statistics don’t lie, player populations don’t lie, people who think sprint fits in halo are akin to flat earthers
That’s what was good about Reach MLG/Hardcore. It brought the movement speed and jump height close to Halo 3 levels, and it made the game so much smoother feeling. Armor abilities became map power ups, and it was a good fix to a frustrating problem. But by then it was too little too late, honestly.
Sprint has hindered map design in Halo since its inception. Clamber and thrust only made things worse. Great job being objective though, as seeing both sides can be difficult. I personally agree with every point you made. Reverting back to standard movement would be a big change for many new fans of Halo. But considering how stale the franchise has become and how small the community is at this point, I think it's a small price to pay. 343 needs to ditch the enhanced mobility gimmicks if future Halo titles are to flourish beyond their initial launches.
People say that sprint makes games faster but looks at games that came out before Halo like Quake, Unreal, Doom I mean these were all games that didn't have sprint yet I think we can all agree are very fast-paced because the base movement speed was just faster (along with a bunch of other factors).
Couldn’t have agreed more. 343 needs to take a look at games like runescape and cs and understand when you have a formula that works and people enjoy, you shouldn’t be changing it.
@@l4l01234 true, but they admitted to adding anything and everything in reach in the VidDoc and were basically using it as a giant experimental game with no real regards to competitive balance. Also even then bungie had the sense not to permanently attach it as a base player mechanic. So while true I find it to be a forgivable mistake in a spin off halo title. Unlike 343s mainline halo games
Exactly. Especially when the formula launched that series of games to break international sales records and create a massive following - which is what Halo's formula did. Why on Earth did 343 think they could just muck around with that.
They tell us it makes them feel like a super soldier. I thought super soldiers would be able to shoot without having to put their gun down for extra speed, so what’s the point in sprint?
Look at quake champions adding different chars with abilities, hitboxes, speeds, and health. Literally ruined the balance quake had. Sprint needs to go in halo and revert to the old movement without these abilities and find its identity again. Otherwise halo will never come back to how it originally supposed to be which is halo. Maybe one day 343 will see that which i highly doubt as i bet this so called reboot of the franchise infinite definitely will have some sort of advance movements like sprint or slide.
Belly Nuts I’ve heard that they have removed all Spartan Abilities except Sprint. I don’t know if Sprint has been kept for the Campaign, some new PvPvE mode, and if they have had the good sense to exclude it from Arena PvP. I wasn’t going to get _Halo: Infinite_ after my poor experience with Microsoft Research ignoring my Survey responses when I was a part of the MCC Insider Program, I lost patience and didn’t feel 343i were competent, or even had the will to make a game the community wanted. Then xGLLx told me that I could take my stacked GOLD subscription and convert it into XBOX GAME PASS ULTIMATE for free for the next three years, covering the time I might play _Halo: Infinite_ completely, so I thought as it wasn’t costing me anything I might as well try it. To get subscribed you need to have already put as much XBOX LIVE GOLD Subscription on your account as it will take, which should be a maximum of three years (I already had done this so I could just forget about it), then when you take on the £1 offer for a month of XBOX GAME PASS ULTIMATE you get this month for £1 and all XBOX LIVE is upgraded to XBOX GAME PASS ULTIMATE in the preceding interval of time, this is why I have won’t be paying for ULTIMATE until 2022 and then only £1.
I love this video. It is very factual and evidence based, and you don't attack sprint by just saying, "yeah lol it sucks." I've always stuck with the idea that removing sprint would bring back so many more players. Yes the new fans would be alienated, but I'd rather have the minority left behind to bring back the majority. If people want enhanced mobility, they can continue to play Halo 4 and Halo 5. Classic Halo deserves another chance in the modern world, because I guarantee it would be a huge success. There are way more classic Halo fans waiting for Halo's true return than there are new gen fans, and the population numbers CLEARLY show that. It's time to wake up. Thank you Tommy.
Kel10 how I’ve always viewed it is that not having sprint was one of the things that distinguished Halo from its competition. Why buy an Xbox for Halo 5 when you can play tens of games like it on the PlayStation?
I've seen the best defenses for Sprint, and they make sense, but the reason they like Sprint is exactly why I hate it. For example, they might mention that with Sprint, it is possible to rush past a defensive grenade, rather than respect its space for the possibility of securing a kill. That's exactly why I DON'T like Sprint, because it gives far too much power to player numbers than it does individual strategy. Let's say TWO people are chasing you, and you throw a defensive grenade. With Sprint, you might as well not have thrown the grenade at all, and just gave up, because they will run past the grenade and then overwhelm you.
Will not be buying any more Halo games where Sprint is a core mechanic. At the very most, make it a optional thing you can add in custom games or forge maps (and in no way implement it into the matchmaking system). This is how Eldewrito did it and I think it's the best compromis. And thanks for another great video Tommy. Keep it up!
yes as soon as i see the title and see your username, i'm down. keep kicking ass tommy. hopefully infinite doesn't have sprint and i hope we get a custom edition version with a dev kit dammit!!!!!!!!!!!
Sprint could exist, but as an equipment 1 use pickup like in halo 3 so that way its modular nature means it could be added to or removed from any map where it suits the level design.
You say that the only legitimate argument for sprint is that without it, it would alienate the newer fan base. The thing is that the newer fan base is significantly smaller than the old one. Compare Halo 2 and 3’s online numbers 2 years after release to anything after 3 and you’ll see depressing results. Halo used to be king, it has since fallen from grace. Remove sprint.
Oh, no doubt. I just wanted to remain objective because technically the removal of sprint would alienate the newer Halo fans. The removal of enhanced mobility is the first step to re-establishing Halo's identity.
I dislike when people say sprinting iss more realistic becasue people just accept it even though it's a little more complex. Sure, being able to sprint is something people can do IRL, durr, but the specific way that sprint plays out in video games is not realistic, and sprinting being an important part of close quarter combat is not realistic. Whenever you watch documentaries about the SAS, you dont see them sprinting around. The move always with the gun up and mentally ready to aim and shoot quickly. The fact is that in real life, sprinting will tire you out too much to the point you wont be able to aim well for about a minute after. Then if you're talking about covering large distances, you dont sprint them, you jog at a constant speed. Now, there is one situation in combat where sprinting is good, and that is moving from cover to cover, Not shooting and for the cover to be good enough that you can catch your breath after, but that's very niche stuff and isnt common in Halo, it would be akin to a reduced accuracy for a few minutes after every sprint. tldr, the game combat looks more realistic if you cant sprint.
RuGra7zz they for some reason think he's alex jones and refuse to listen to him which is really sad. His videos are solid and some of the ideas they've talked about on the podcasts could really help the life of the game
Wishful thinking. H5's multiplayer received way too much positive reception for 343 to not build on that. Removing sprint at this point isn't gonna happen (maybe for certain game types - that's the best we can realistically hope for).
This ^^ Even if people dislike it, sprint isn't going anywhere, aside from just in certain game modes. Personally I don't really mind sprint much 🤷🏻♂️ I have loads of fun no matter whether I'm playing a Halo game with or without sprint.
if this is true, 343i has selective hearing. they are isolating the real community and anyone who speaks out is silenced and called an "old head" or whatever. the core halo community doesnt want sprint. people were dissapointed with halo 4, let alone 5!!!!! the numbers reflect this. the halo franchise will die if 343i dont get this next halo right.
@@trevorskopczynski5791 i'm not so sure about that. it looks like they want to appeal to old fans of the game. that won't happen if sprint is in the game. no one will pre-order that shit either. we aren't dumb and hopeful like we were in 2015. we will need to see gameplay first, or we won't buy. if there's sprint, their sales will be pathetic as bonny ross herself is.
Great vid. I'd add that it's not just simply alienating the OG Halo fanbase that 343's changes and trend-chasing is doing, but it's also ruining Halo's fame and success. Halo 4 and 5, even with the new AND old fans, are the least popular Halo's. This is evident by the drop of online players.
Thank you Tommy, just another video I can easily reference now instead of verbally pasting my thoughts in every convo I have regarding this. My biggest gripe is definitely the huge maps, Halo’s smaller maps were intricate, filled with tons of tech jumps and such not always noticed at face value, easy to navigate and most of all more manageable when trying to speed up and slow down a match teamwork wise. Walking across H2 midship is about the same time as sprinting across in H5, only you lose the ability to navigate the map while staying offensive in exchange for giving up an action for a “got to go fast” illusion.
When watching professional gameplay from a certain big fan of Sprint, constantly talking about how many options Sprint gave people, I couldn't help but notice he used the pistol 99% of the time. As much as people wanna say Sprint added depth to the game, those movement mechanics made 90% of the sandbox non-viable. Most power weapons are a joke in a arena, since those movement mechanics punish anything that is not a hit-scan weapon. You can dodge away from rockets, you can dodge away from Needlers, you can pretty much dodge away from everything the is not specifically a hit scan or a melee weapon. The fact the shields don't recharge does not matter with power weapons. Either you die from it, or you don't, therefor you're going to keep dodging and sprint, regardless of how low your shields get. What you can't dodge is pistol spam, a sword rush, or the sniper rifle. Don't even get me started on vehicles. I saw SEVERAL scenarios where a few small boulders was all a person needed to kite a Ghost indefinitely.
DOOM 2016 didn't need sprint to be a great game. It's a modern AAA FPS that had the balls to against the trend set by COD and its massive popularity/influence. I hope 343 will learn from DOOM and ignore industry trends and do their own thing. However, I doubt it.
Its nuts when i get back on halo 3 cuz i all im thinking is, wow this feels REALLY floaty and slow. The end of this video is on point. Halo became massively popular because of what bungie initially.brought to the table, now they really are just chasing trends. That's why i didnt believe them for a second when they said infinite wpuldnt have a battle royale mode. I still think they will include some sort of battle royale, even if its simply against AI.
Love this video. You’d be surprised at how little some forgers and level designers actually think about sprint (+armor/spartan abilities) and the way they affect gameplay on their maps. I don’t know if you’ve considered it, but a brief look into Forge maps from H3, Reach, and H5 could be worth your while. I think Comparing Dev maps and Enthusiast maps would make a great topic.
How many new generations of Halo fans are there actually? It doesn't seem like they're a many. While Halo Reach had a decent population, it declined rapidly and didn't hold a candle to Halo 3's number, and both Halo 4 and 5 were dead games not long after launch. 343 has never given a hard number on Halo 5's population, you find in other games they do that frequently Destiny, Rainbow Six Siege, Call of Duty, Overwatch, Sea of Thieves, Rocket League if it's performing well and growing. Or they have a population counter/tracker online or in-game for anybody to see, 343 completely took the in-game and online population counter away.
Sprinting has become nothing more than a lazy excuse to handicap your default speed and give this false sense of enhanced mobility. At least in Cod it works since your just a regular soldier, not a genetically modified superhuman, but in Halo games it feels like a constant struggle of running and slowing down just trying to get across the gargantuan maps.
I agree with everything you're saying. But at the end of the day, the sprint vs. no sprint argument is always just gonna be older fans vs new fans. No one looks at it objectively and how each side can help/hurt the franchise. It just ends up with both sides throwing insults at each other. That's how I see it at least.
I'm not someone who whole heartedly hates the armor abilities in all these games, but I can see where people are coming from and I wouldn't mind seeing them removed. People that say sprint makes the game faster in h5 are pretty thick though, even without the comparison of truth and midship I could tell it felt slower cause the map was bigger. But if you just increase the base movement speed to like 120 or so, this completely removes the use for sprint.
@@saben6977 Well wouldn't that mean every other shooter has "spartan abilities"? XD. I get what you're saying where it's all we need to have a good halo game. But even marines in the games can do all that lol. I'd just more treat them as big fucking tanks that can decimate armies rather than the gay power ranger style they have going in h5.
Halo 1.. no sprint.. halo 2 .. no sprint.. halo 3 no sprint.. halo 3 ODST .. no sprint.. halo reach sprint was added and halo 4- halo 5.. where am I going with this.. enhanced mobility is lie.. and doesn’t need to be in halo.. it’s not about change.. or being an old halo fan.. it’s about what works best for the game.. sprint will probably never go away.. but all I can say is halo does not need it.. if anything.. up the pace at which the master chief walks.. simple.. it’s not hard.. and don’t compare halo to a doom clone for this suggestion.. halo will never be doom.. lol not even close
Sprint =/= fast mobility. The game that really started pushing with this trend was Titanfall. Sure, I love both games and both Titanfall games function super well. But look at the map design, very vertical maps due to wall running/wall jumping, long maps due to the high speed. But while doing all of this, you can still reload, switch weapons, shoot your gun, throw grenades, everything. Modern Halo, on the other hand, locks you into a predictable movement. While Halo may be played like chess at high levels, even in the modern games, and that has been a theme in Halo for as long as I can remember, Halo 5's movement makes it so much closer to a control and collapse gameplay style, having many play the same play styles. This is because you have so many mechanics to be aware of, yet they have relatively high depth that isn't taken advantage of. Where Halo 4 and 5 fail to deliver "enhanced" mobility, other games, like Titanfall, excel at it due to them being developed with these in mind, and how they should interact with each other. Halo 5 feels rushed, and other mechanics, alongside sprint were not considered while developing (which is why the whole multishot thing existed).
unfortunately many of the community members had more of a relationship with bungie than microsoft did. it was was a huge mistake for MSoft to hire 343i.
343 is in such serious denial they just wont let go of sprint. Such a shame. Well guess what: I am not going to spend my 60 hard earned dollars then if you aren't willing to give me the game I want instead of the distorted frankenstein Halo Of Duty you keep trying to cram down my esophagus..
Reach got me addicted to Sprint. It changed the entire way i played the game, for the worse. I would get into fights i had no business getting into, and simply sprint out when i was weak. I do think ghost ayame put together some really good settings for competitive reeach though. No bloom, no.sprint.
I guess I'm minority when I say I like sprint a lot in Halo, and I think that it adds that risk/reward of being able to maneuver faster. I loved sprint/slides/clamber/directional boosts in Halo5 (multiplayer specifically), but I hated Spartan charge and ground pound. I feel like the first four give the player more movement options and helps to make you feel more like a Spartan (although instead of jet inputs for directional dashes I wish they had it as a lunge instead, specifically for the visual) since it gives you precise and variable control over your horizontal and vertical axes.
Excellent video man, I love how you touched on the points of cs never changing it's core formula as an example because I've always felt that's what has happened to halo. Sprint may now be a part of halo longer that is was not, but since it has emerged I agree that halo seems to be chasing the dragon of other games trying to compete instead of just trying to tweet and build on what made it such a wonder game in the first place. At this point I don't think we can expect to see a halo game without sprint given current iterations are just popular enough to make lots of money for them to continue pumping them out, which is kinda sad, it would be interesting to see the path halo would have taken without sprint.
Halo games will sell well regardless. Halo: Infinite could be a blank disc and it'll make $500m opening week. If they implement the correct changes, it'll positively affect player retention and they could milk the active players with microtransactions or DLC like they used to. I'd have no issue buying DLC or "season passes" if Infinite was playable.
@@TommyKost Oh yeah, especially when it's easy for them to generate marketing hype with a high cgi trailer. Me neither, it would actually be exciting to see what kind of fun maps or dlc they would come out with like in in the old days. I wouldn't even be mad about micotransactions for different skins on your br or ar you can just spawn in with in multiplayer. Nothing that would effect gameplay like in h5 like extra ammo or damage though, just for style points like in cs for getting the rarest skins.
Would love to see a talk with you and Favyn discussing the recent Halo's and these ideas for improvement, Tom. Great video, I've never been able to fluently articulate the ways in which sprint is detrimental, and as always you nail it
I’ve played thousands of hours of Halo and I can safely say that Halo CE has by far the fastest gameplay. If they want to increase speed, make backpack reloading a feature instead of a bug. Part of the skill of Halo is knowing the little tricks to move faster like in CE moving perfectly straight or using slopes to fling yourself. For big maps vehicles are what increases the speed so there is no need to sprint. I’ve also never played COD or military shooters so it was a little shocking to hear older Halos ever considered “fast.” The Doom/Quake player in me thought “that’s cute.”
Jon Wallace halo ces open missions are something seriously missing in all other titles. Well most. The only problem with ce is it’s repetitive map structure. If I was making a halo game, I would have the music rocking the entire mission. I love when a fight starts on ce and you hear that memorable music - sadly it cuts out part way.
Honestly, Bungie never considered the books as canon. I dunno why everyone forgets how at the end of Halo 3 Guilty Spark basically laid it out that Humans were actually the descendants of the Forerunners. Think about it: Forerunner technology, for some reason, is 100% compatible with human technology, and human touch. Let that sink in. And 343 would have us believe that somehow humans were the Forerunners ancient enemy? I call BS! If anything, that would be the Forerunner's cover up to ensure nobody seeks vengeance against their descendants!
I don't care if there is sprint or not, the fact is that it wasn't there before for a reason, but if you are going to put it in, at least you have to make it worth using it, not like in halo infinite where there is hardly any difference between walking or running
It's been since Halo 3 since we've had a proper Halo game and it sucks cause Halo Infinite is forsure gonna have some sort of enhanced mobility. 343 continues to act like the first trilogy doesn't exist and now they can't go back since their games have already established the new Halo fans that like enhanced mobility. If they went back to classic completely they would lose their shit.
I don't know why 343 insists on making halo something it is not. Halo has its roots in arena shooters, and while those games are fast, at no point did you have to put your gun down or slow down in any way; combat and movement were all one. This is part of what makes the AFPS genre have such a high skill gap, as players must master shooting on the move, with fast targets, making even stationary aim challenging for beginners. Add to this map pickups, complex and tactical level geometry, and logical spawn systems, and you some super sweaty gameplay. 343 may think that sprint adds depth, but in reality, whatever depth sprint adds is pyrrhic at best, and as a result, fundamentally alters the combat loop; players now run or gun, instead of run and gun. Even worse, stretched out maps (as compensation for the large movenebt delta) make engagments happen at signifanctly longer ranges, when up until now, halo always revolved around close/medium ranges firefights. Given these negatives, I can't really find a good argument for sprint as a necessity, other than for "immersion", which isn't a strong argument anyway. 343 easily could make halo faster, but they are going about it completley wrong. Ps: if 343 really wants to make movement skill based (as if skill jumps weren't a thing before) , maybe the could look to quake with its strafe hopping techinque(s).
Never stop making these great video's Tommy your voice is essential to the halo community and we can only hope 343 is listening to us and makes Halo Infinite great. They need to go back to their original formula and keep it the same. No armor abilites, no sprint! They need to use Hitscan for the bullet registration on all weapons and they need the same movement speed as Halo 3. They also need to make memorably maps like The Pit, Guardian, and Narrows again. They keep trying to make things too futuristic when the majority of halo fans want them to keep what they did in Halo 2 and 3 and just build upon that style of gameplay and campaign! That's all we want!
Why have a unique game that hundreds of thousands love, if you can make a game that a million will buy, but only a few thousand will love. It's all about the $$$. Bungie cared for its games and treated them all with respect, but when they knew they wanted to no longer work on Halo, they put together Reach, not caring about long term effects (rightfully so). Now all Microsoft cares to do is beat the dead horse that is Halo until it stops bringing them in money.
All the spartan gimmicks do is make the game "feel" fast. The exact same thing could be achieved by increasing the field of view, weapon sway and slightly increased base movement speed. None of these would have the detrimental effects that sprint, armor abilities and the other gimmicks have had on Halo.
Totally agree. The FOV is a solid argument as well. I was initially planning to bring that up but chose not to as additional evidence wasn't necessarily needed.
I enjoyed the Halo series for a lot of reasons. It somehow took until Halo 2 or 3 for me to finally notice it. Somehow I gravitated towards the much enjoyed Playstation 2 the first time I ever went to Blockbuster and really encountered video-games. For a long time I could only watch Halo and couldn't play even Halo: CE until I got it for PC back in 2010. Played the Halo: Reach beta sometime after. I enjoyed both greatly. The point is that I wasn't part of Halo's "glory days", I just observed them. So I don't think there's any worry about nostalgia blinding me here. 343 Industries talked about the "Spartan fantasy" in those videos leading up to Halo 4's launch, but what we got was a re-run of Bungie's experiment in Halo: Reach for the most part, as well as a mere trend chasing. It was not Spartan-like. It was not Halo. After thinking a lot of things through, I've come to believe that IF Sprint is to stay it needs to be Spartan-like. Trained soldiers can already run and gun and Spartans certainly can as well, only much better and they can move quickly in every direction. You can have a nice little animation for that increased speed and appropriate accuracy penalties for firing while running if need be, but that gun should never go down until it drops from its owners hands. Clamber can be spoken of similarly, keeping in mind the way a Spartan only has one hand to shoot with in that moment. It's not just for the sake of the "Spartan fantasy" either. Before Sprint was in Halo there was this union between moving and attacking that never came undone while wielding a weapon. "We need to fight". The player was always ready for a fight to a certain degree. Sprint as it has been since Halo: Reach is a mode that undoes that union and puts players in a mode that tones down the "fight" and ups the "flight". It shifts a player's thoughts away from how they can move and shoot to achieve their objective to just how they can move. Even if they think about the shooting to come after that, their thoughts and that whole mode is just about moving because they can't shoot, they can't nearly as easily place their cross-hair somewhere in anticipation of their next shot. It affects more than just the player who is sprinting as well as people chasing them will often feel they have to sprint to not lost their target, but while they do that they're not shooting. In fact it creates scenarios where people are just running after each other and thoroughly discouraged from pitting their aim against one another. It cuts down on the number of times people decide to turn and make a stand since they think things will be better if they avoid any kind of fighting and keep running. When it comes to objective game modes you've gone from someone fighting their way past enemies with good movement and shooting, to trying to just blitz past the enemies in their way, meanwhile those enemies are in a sense at a disadvantage because they have no speed boost for moving backwards. I could go on with other scenarios, but Sprint as a mode that does away with shooting in a far more frequent way than being in a vehicle or carrying an objective changes so much about how players play and thus changes the formula of Halo dramatically. I believe that the "Spartan fantasy" of enhanced mobility can be achieved if proper adjustments that respect the union between movement and shooting are made. I could very well be wrong that having a speed-boost that work in all directions, has unique animations (hey, throw in one for when not shooting, sure) and appropriate accuracy penalties for shooting while moving at higher speeds can be just as good as sticking to one speed + jumping. I also believe that maps can be made with areas that make use of the enhanced mobility, as well as areas that require and reward more careful and precise movements. What I want most is to see 343 Industries test it out together with the community.
Halo 2 was originally going to have sprint but it was cut, now if it wasn't cut I wonder if the Halo community would be upset if Sprint got removed in let's say Halo 4 or 5. Would be a really interesting timeline lol.
Tommy Kost You should make a video on how important vehicles are to Halo. I've been playing some Halo 5 big team battle lately and I noticed that there were barely any vehicles on the maps. Also the maps weren't suited for lots of vehicles and encouraged hand to hand combat. 343i needs to go all out with Infinite and add every single vehicle we've had in each Halo game, up until this point, back into the game. Vehicles are a BIG part of Halo and I would hate to see them get the short end of the stick this time around.
Solution: make the gameplay like Doom 2016 but alittle slower keep clamber no double jump like doom though just increase the jump height and base movement speed like we can do in forge settings then for all these people that like certain abilities change the spartan and armor abilities into power up equipment like halo 3 with timers so it’s balanced but no sprint pls or armor lock just no nooooo.
My god I miss the old Halo 3 days. Basically grew up playing halo 3. Got a 50 in TD,TS and helped a friend get his in MLG ( felt like I got a 50 too LOL personal highest was 47 or 48 ) I miss the good old dayzzzz!!!! “ one shot in our pit!, 2 in green box!, I’m going rockets, you go invis” 😂😂😂. Halo 3 was the most competitive Ive every played a video game, have never had the same experience since. I was not fond of reach at all, and didn’t even touch halo 4. Halo 5 was decent but didn’t play much ranked at all. Give us a new halo with halo 3 ranking system please!!!
Makes sense that they would remove sprint because mc switched back to an older armor. Edit: the armor is not actually older. I meant inspired by the older designs.
@@ToxicBalloon360 Sprint is an armor ability. The armor has always been the same across campaign and multiplayer. So if MC is wearing an older armor in the campaign...
@@crashmer Sprint isn't an armour ability. Spartans don't need an armour ability to be able to sprint. Are you implying that the Spartans, canonically, walked around in their older armour?
@@crashmer They couldn't sprint because the game mechanics didn't allow them to. Canonically they still could. The ability to sprint was never tied to the iteration of armour Spartans wore.
Infinite should increase the base running speed of player to be similar to Ce's. Fast enough to make it feel less like a slog on 3&Reach but not too fast where your blitzing across the map.
If you ask any of the 20 best competitive small team map forgers (aka the best design minds in the community) if sprint or any other Halo 5 ability should stay in Halo, they'll tell you that it hinders map design, slows the game down and should fuck right off. That ought to tell people enough.
I think sprint should be disabled for the smaller 4v4 modes and enabled for btb because it does help getting across those larger maps in a more efficient manner.
Tommy Kost That is true but most of the time even with those it still takes a while to move across the map and you don’t always spawn near a teleporter, man canon, or all the vehicles could be taken and some maps don’t even have them or a lot of vehicles.
Well, the removal of sprint would influence map design. Instead of spreading teleporters out, they'd be near player spawns like they were in previous Halo titles.
I think its ok to add some new mechanics with all the reinventing of the older Halo's the new ones have to have some new dynamic movements or they would not have to come out with a new game at all. Its understandable that there are pros and cons to this kind of change but I dont think that they are hurting the franchise and i do have to disagree that they are trying to chase down trends i think halo is the opposite, they are the trend setters when it comes to shooter games. I know for a fact that if you said that there was a jet pack in the new halo that there would be some excitement but there will also be some hate. At this point they can't make every one happy but i trust that the creators will do right by the fans old and new.
Ever since Reach Halo has done nothing but implement the current trends into the game and ever since then it's tanked the franchise, because now Halo doesn't stand out anymore. So yes 343s changes has done nothing but hurt the franchise. Halo USED to be the trend setter in the original trilogy. They can't do right by both new fans and old. Halo 5 was a good example of them trying to satisfy both communities and that didn't go well either.
I believe that they are making a statement by coming out with halo reach remaster, I feel as though they are going to take the information learned by the community and take some of the best parts from that particular game because lets face it halo reach was a lot bigger success than it gets credit for but it was the most different one in the franchise. Now that there going to be a some what comfort at least with that crowd of fans they can also bring some old school mechanics back as well. They do try to tend to both crowds and I am looking forward to the new Halo, I feel like Halo never had a bad game and never will. Master chief is still and always will be the posterboy of Xbox.
Again. Great video. I started really playing halo on reach. Although I have played halo 3 a little I still thought that sprint was not necessary in Halo at all. When halo 5 came out I couldn’t play more than a month and moved back to MCC. It just felt better to not sprint and have these disgusting added moves to deal with in halo 5. I like halo 4 but halo 5 is way to much like titan fall and COD.
I'm 20 years old. Jumped in at halo at h2 a few months before h3 came out. And I wanna take the time to say thanks you for this video tommy. Hit the nail on the head here.
Removing sprint would make the job of the map designers way more easy. With sprint in the equation, they have to design maps around it. Same with clamber. Its awkward having a map with a bunch of random ass ledges that say "hey clamber up here pal!". There really hasnt been standout maps designed since Halo 3 (The Pit, Narrows, Guardian). Every Halo title after that, had dreadful maps. Crazy that a game from 2007 has maps with such a high replay value while the sprint based maps dont offer the same spark.
I think the idea is to remove the need for good map design by increasing mechanical complexity. Halo CE-3 derived most of their depth from map design. Halo 5 tries to replace that by deriving depth from core mechanics. The issue is that you get diminishing returns. Halo 5 is a shallow game.
Yup. The best maps in modern Halo have almost always been remakes. I wonder why!
Ehh Halo 3 maps weren’t that great tbh. I prefer 2’s maps.
This is just a big circle jerk. Halo reach, 4 and 5 all have unique and memorable maps. You wouldn’t know about them because you don’t play the games, which is fine, but don’t pretend like you disliking the games is proof of them being bad. You’re entitled to dislike them as much as you want but maybe you’d have a better time if you spent some time actually learning how to play the new games rather than bitching about them online
@@l4l01234 See, this is the problem with this issue and why it has become so heated. The only argument from people who support advanced mobility is "I like it" and then usually some sort of insult. Meanwhile the argument from people who are against it can go into great detail about how it has dramatically changed the game. Perhaps it speaks to the immaturity of younger Halo fans (late teens, early 20s) who can't hack it that a game they grew up on gets ripped into.
TLDR: You sound like a child "bUt i LikE iT".
Keep doing your thing man, don’t stop. You are our voice.
"Changes are inevitable. But if something has been worked since forever, you stick with it".
sad truth is I don't think they'll ever remove it.
truth hurts... oh, the humanity!
I agree I don't think they will remove it I've played Halo since CE and would love for sprint to be gone but I don't see it happening in Halo Infinite. I will admit sprint/thrust/clamber does add another degree of skill because it adds more mechanics to master thus making it harder to "master" the game/gameplay especially when in a battle against someone.
@@SGFeLLoN more features doesnt mean it takes more skill to play. quite the opposite actually.
halo is slowly turning into cod
†λfͣfͫꞫrͥ ‽ׅ slowly turning into cod? Halo 4 was basically cod 😂😂
Looks like you’re right. Kiddos got what they wanted in Halo 6. Now they can continue smashing their thumb on the aim stick over and over again just to attain normal moving speed. So fun!
I've been saying this for years, but sprint is an illusion that has no place in Halo's multiplayer. Adding sprint to the series is just as detrimental as removing sprint from a series like Call of Duty.
@@SonGoku-hr5kz Can't do that either because then they'll have to create specific maps to cater to sprint, bullet spread and speed won't be balanced and much more. Not only that, if they are trying to please the Halo 5 fanbase that will kill the game for them. They can't please both fanbases (old and new) and they will have to choose one.
@@ryanb.7751 The older halo maps have to be made much larger, which is a big change the maps have to make, and even when you do sprint (as seen in the footage where u run in halo 5's truth vs. you walking in halo 2's midship), you're still slower than halo 2's walking speed because of the map enlargenment! This is detrimental and unnecesssry for halo's map design.
@@ryanb.7751 Bigger burden on the devs.
Sprint wasn't in cod2 and that was arguably the best competitive cod title until Promod (which made the game like cod2 lol)
@@SonGoku-hr5kz eldewrito isnt the best example. Look at Halo 4. Sprint was the biggest criticism, map size, bullet tracking and spread got affected. So when Halo 5 came out, they had to tweak everything to accommodate sprint, bigger maps, bullet damage and spread, shields cant charge while running.
Doom 2016 just proved that you dont need Sprint to feel fast... i just hate what Halo has become too
Compare Halo and DOOM? It's a little different type of FPS. You know. Just a little. A "little".
@@dartraider8048 original Halo was inspired by Doom and Unreal. They even took the teleporter concept and announcer saying “double kill!” from it too. Young sons will never know
You hit the nail on the head. 100% sprint has been a large factor in the downfall of Halo multiplayer
Reach is definitive gameplay so
@@xTSxClouds lol no it wasn’t. Reach was decent but super casual compared to previous titles. Sprint and other load out garbage is why.
There literally is not debate to be had. Statistics don’t lie, player populations don’t lie, people who think sprint fits in halo are akin to flat earthers
Exactly. People who argue "there's tons of people who want sprint!" are just plain wrong. They are the minority.
I've seen people on a lot of these videos saying they like sprint I cant understand it
Kel10 there aren’t even “tons of people” anymore LMAO
butiz I think it’s time to drop it. If Infinite is revealed to have sprint, Halo is a dead franchise to me, and Xbox a dead brand.
It’s the same with every game these days bro everyone buys games and doesn’t play after a couple months or atleast dies very fast
That’s what was good about Reach MLG/Hardcore. It brought the movement speed and jump height close to Halo 3 levels, and it made the game so much smoother feeling.
Armor abilities became map power ups, and it was a good fix to a frustrating problem. But by then it was too little too late, honestly.
I’ve been playing halo 3 a lot lately and I can say comfortably we don’t need sprint
Saben yep
Sprint has hindered map design in Halo since its inception. Clamber and thrust only made things worse. Great job being objective though, as seeing both sides can be difficult. I personally agree with every point you made. Reverting back to standard movement would be a big change for many new fans of Halo. But considering how stale the franchise has become and how small the community is at this point, I think it's a small price to pay. 343 needs to ditch the enhanced mobility gimmicks if future Halo titles are to flourish beyond their initial launches.
343 dpesnt give a fuck about classic halo or its fans. They will continue with their shitty vision for the franchise
It's a pretty garbage feature
People say that sprint makes games faster but looks at games that came out before Halo like Quake, Unreal, Doom I mean these were all games that didn't have sprint yet I think we can all agree are very fast-paced because the base movement speed was just faster (along with a bunch of other factors).
Couldn’t have agreed more. 343 needs to take a look at games like runescape and cs and understand when you have a formula that works and people enjoy, you shouldn’t be changing it.
Right, the bungie era... which introduced sprint in the first place.
@@l4l01234 true, but they admitted to adding anything and everything in reach in the VidDoc and were basically using it as a giant experimental game with no real regards to competitive balance. Also even then bungie had the sense not to permanently attach it as a base player mechanic.
So while true I find it to be a forgivable mistake in a spin off halo title. Unlike 343s mainline halo games
Exactly. Especially when the formula launched that series of games to break international sales records and create a massive following - which is what Halo's formula did. Why on Earth did 343 think they could just muck around with that.
They tell us it makes them feel like a super soldier. I thought super soldiers would be able to shoot without having to put their gun down for extra speed, so what’s the point in sprint?
Look at quake champions adding different chars with abilities, hitboxes, speeds, and health. Literally ruined the balance quake had. Sprint needs to go in halo and revert to the old movement without these abilities and find its identity again. Otherwise halo will never come back to how it originally supposed to be which is halo. Maybe one day 343 will see that which i highly doubt as i bet this so called reboot of the franchise infinite definitely will have some sort of advance movements like sprint or slide.
Belly Nuts I’ve heard that they have removed all Spartan Abilities except Sprint. I don’t know if Sprint has been kept for the Campaign, some new PvPvE mode, and if they have had the good sense to exclude it from Arena PvP. I wasn’t going to get _Halo: Infinite_ after my poor experience with Microsoft Research ignoring my Survey responses when I was a part of the MCC Insider Program, I lost patience and didn’t feel 343i were competent, or even had the will to make a game the community wanted. Then xGLLx told me that I could take my stacked GOLD subscription and convert it into XBOX GAME PASS ULTIMATE for free for the next three years, covering the time I might play _Halo: Infinite_ completely, so I thought as it wasn’t costing me anything I might as well try it. To get subscribed you need to have already put as much XBOX LIVE GOLD Subscription on your account as it will take, which should be a maximum of three years (I already had done this so I could just forget about it), then when you take on the £1 offer for a month of XBOX GAME PASS ULTIMATE you get this month for £1 and all XBOX LIVE is upgraded to XBOX GAME PASS ULTIMATE in the preceding interval of time, this is why I have won’t be paying for ULTIMATE until 2022 and then only £1.
I love this video. It is very factual and evidence based, and you don't attack sprint by just saying, "yeah lol it sucks." I've always stuck with the idea that removing sprint would bring back so many more players. Yes the new fans would be alienated, but I'd rather have the minority left behind to bring back the majority. If people want enhanced mobility, they can continue to play Halo 4 and Halo 5. Classic Halo deserves another chance in the modern world, because I guarantee it would be a huge success. There are way more classic Halo fans waiting for Halo's true return than there are new gen fans, and the population numbers CLEARLY show that. It's time to wake up.
Thank you Tommy.
Preach dude.
Kel10 how I’ve always viewed it is that not having sprint was one of the things that distinguished Halo from its competition.
Why buy an Xbox for Halo 5 when you can play tens of games like it on the PlayStation?
Lol no
More ppl like you are needed I’m sick of people saying uhhh I don’t see a problem with sprint
It's time for the original Halo formula to return. Sprint doesn't work as good in Halo.
This is perhaps the only video that could immediately draw me from a Metokur stream. God bless you Thomas.
they should remove sprint but just increase the base move speed even beyond what it was originally
I've seen the best defenses for Sprint, and they make sense, but the reason they like Sprint is exactly why I hate it. For example, they might mention that with Sprint, it is possible to rush past a defensive grenade, rather than respect its space for the possibility of securing a kill. That's exactly why I DON'T like Sprint, because it gives far too much power to player numbers than it does individual strategy. Let's say TWO people are chasing you, and you throw a defensive grenade. With Sprint, you might as well not have thrown the grenade at all, and just gave up, because they will run past the grenade and then overwhelm you.
Will not be buying any more Halo games where Sprint is a core mechanic. At the very most, make it a optional thing you can add in custom games or forge maps (and in no way implement it into the matchmaking system). This is how Eldewrito did it and I think it's the best compromis. And thanks for another great video Tommy. Keep it up!
yes as soon as i see the title and see your username, i'm down. keep kicking ass tommy. hopefully infinite doesn't have sprint and i hope we get a custom edition version with a dev kit dammit!!!!!!!!!!!
Sprint could exist, but as an equipment 1 use pickup like in halo 3 so that way its modular nature means it could be added to or removed from any map where it suits the level design.
Or even a speed boost power up like they had in H4 where you still can have your gun raised.
I knew it was over when Reach came out.
You say that the only legitimate argument for sprint is that without it, it would alienate the newer fan base. The thing is that the newer fan base is significantly smaller than the old one. Compare Halo 2 and 3’s online numbers 2 years after release to anything after 3 and you’ll see depressing results. Halo used to be king, it has since fallen from grace. Remove sprint.
Oh, no doubt. I just wanted to remain objective because technically the removal of sprint would alienate the newer Halo fans. The removal of enhanced mobility is the first step to re-establishing Halo's identity.
I dislike when people say sprinting iss more realistic becasue people just accept it even though it's a little more complex. Sure, being able to sprint is something people can do IRL, durr, but the specific way that sprint plays out in video games is not realistic, and sprinting being an important part of close quarter combat is not realistic. Whenever you watch documentaries about the SAS, you dont see them sprinting around. The move always with the gun up and mentally ready to aim and shoot quickly. The fact is that in real life, sprinting will tire you out too much to the point you wont be able to aim well for about a minute after. Then if you're talking about covering large distances, you dont sprint them, you jog at a constant speed. Now, there is one situation in combat where sprinting is good, and that is moving from cover to cover, Not shooting and for the cover to be good enough that you can catch your breath after, but that's very niche stuff and isnt common in Halo, it would be akin to a reduced accuracy for a few minutes after every sprint.
tldr, the game combat looks more realistic if you cant sprint.
I can only wish 343 would listen to this
RuGra7zz they for some reason think he's alex jones and refuse to listen to him which is really sad. His videos are solid and some of the ideas they've talked about on the podcasts could really help the life of the game
Wishful thinking. H5's multiplayer received way too much positive reception for 343 to not build on that. Removing sprint at this point isn't gonna happen (maybe for certain game types - that's the best we can realistically hope for).
This ^^
Even if people dislike it, sprint isn't going anywhere, aside from just in certain game modes.
Personally I don't really mind sprint much 🤷🏻♂️ I have loads of fun no matter whether I'm playing a Halo game with or without sprint.
if this is true, 343i has selective hearing. they are isolating the real community and anyone who speaks out is silenced and called an "old head" or whatever. the core halo community doesnt want sprint. people were dissapointed with halo 4, let alone 5!!!!! the numbers reflect this. the halo franchise will die if 343i dont get this next halo right.
@@ffr7790 it sucks but I think hes right there will be a lot of these mechanics and they already have enough hype around the game to stop listening.
@@trevorskopczynski5791 i'm not so sure about that. it looks like they want to appeal to old fans of the game. that won't happen if sprint is in the game. no one will pre-order that shit either. we aren't dumb and hopeful like we were in 2015. we will need to see gameplay first, or we won't buy. if there's sprint, their sales will be pathetic as bonny ross herself is.
Sprint is a sin
Great vid. I'd add that it's not just simply alienating the OG Halo fanbase that 343's changes and trend-chasing is doing, but it's also ruining Halo's fame and success. Halo 4 and 5, even with the new AND old fans, are the least popular Halo's. This is evident by the drop of online players.
when you shoot someone and he runs away feels awful
Thank you Tommy, just another video I can easily reference now instead of verbally pasting my thoughts in every convo I have regarding this. My biggest gripe is definitely the huge maps, Halo’s smaller maps were intricate, filled with tons of tech jumps and such not always noticed at face value, easy to navigate and most of all more manageable when trying to speed up and slow down a match teamwork wise. Walking across H2 midship is about the same time as sprinting across in H5, only you lose the ability to navigate the map while staying offensive in exchange for giving up an action for a “got to go fast” illusion.
The 343 betas got bullied and t-bagged all the way through halo 3 so they tried to change the game radically.
People really just accept it as part of the game and have no idea how much is being lost cause of spring.
Lost cause, perhaps. But also a dead game on arrival.
We need a new video on why spartan abilities has ruined halo.
When watching professional gameplay from a certain big fan of Sprint, constantly talking about how many options Sprint gave people, I couldn't help but notice he used the pistol 99% of the time. As much as people wanna say Sprint added depth to the game, those movement mechanics made 90% of the sandbox non-viable. Most power weapons are a joke in a arena, since those movement mechanics punish anything that is not a hit-scan weapon. You can dodge away from rockets, you can dodge away from Needlers, you can pretty much dodge away from everything the is not specifically a hit scan or a melee weapon. The fact the shields don't recharge does not matter with power weapons. Either you die from it, or you don't, therefor you're going to keep dodging and sprint, regardless of how low your shields get. What you can't dodge is pistol spam, a sword rush, or the sniper rifle.
Don't even get me started on vehicles. I saw SEVERAL scenarios where a few small boulders was all a person needed to kite a Ghost indefinitely.
Couldnt agree more. If Infinite means to be a spiritual sucessor to Halo CE, then it needs to honor the orginal gameplay concept.
DOOM 2016 didn't need sprint to be a great game. It's a modern AAA FPS that had the balls to against the trend set by COD and its massive popularity/influence. I hope 343 will learn from DOOM and ignore industry trends and do their own thing. However, I doubt it.
Its nuts when i get back on halo 3 cuz i all im thinking is, wow this feels REALLY floaty and slow. The end of this video is on point. Halo became massively popular because of what bungie initially.brought to the table, now they really are just chasing trends. That's why i didnt believe them for a second when they said infinite wpuldnt have a battle royale mode. I still think they will include some sort of battle royale, even if its simply against AI.
Love this video. You’d be surprised at how little some forgers and level designers actually think about sprint (+armor/spartan abilities) and the way they affect gameplay on their maps. I don’t know if you’ve considered it, but a brief look into Forge maps from H3, Reach, and H5 could be worth your while. I think Comparing Dev maps and Enthusiast maps would make a great topic.
i'm fine with both but sprint seriously didn't need to be added back then
How many new generations of Halo fans are there actually? It doesn't seem like they're a many. While Halo Reach had a decent population, it declined rapidly and didn't hold a candle to Halo 3's number, and both Halo 4 and 5 were dead games not long after launch. 343 has never given a hard number on Halo 5's population, you find in other games they do that frequently Destiny, Rainbow Six Siege, Call of Duty, Overwatch, Sea of Thieves, Rocket League if it's performing well and growing. Or they have a population counter/tracker online or in-game for anybody to see, 343 completely took the in-game and online population counter away.
Sprinting has become nothing more than a lazy excuse to handicap your default speed and give this false sense of enhanced mobility. At least in Cod it works since your just a regular soldier, not a genetically modified superhuman, but in Halo games it feels like a constant struggle of running and slowing down just trying to get across the gargantuan maps.
100% agree none of us h3 players needed it they should just boost the fov and there you go
I agree with everything you're saying. But at the end of the day, the sprint vs. no sprint argument is always just gonna be older fans vs new fans. No one looks at it objectively and how each side can help/hurt the franchise. It just ends up with both sides throwing insults at each other. That's how I see it at least.
We need to get loud now before they finish halo infinite.
I'm not someone who whole heartedly hates the armor abilities in all these games, but I can see where people are coming from and I wouldn't mind seeing them removed. People that say sprint makes the game faster in h5 are pretty thick though, even without the comparison of truth and midship I could tell it felt slower cause the map was bigger. But if you just increase the base movement speed to like 120 or so, this completely removes the use for sprint.
@@saben6977 I don't care either way but sprint is extremely pointless.
@@saben6977 Well wouldn't that mean every other shooter has "spartan abilities"? XD. I get what you're saying where it's all we need to have a good halo game. But even marines in the games can do all that lol. I'd just more treat them as big fucking tanks that can decimate armies rather than the gay power ranger style they have going in h5.
@@saben6977 I mean hey, at least we want the same thing haha.
Halo 1.. no sprint.. halo 2 .. no sprint.. halo 3 no sprint.. halo 3 ODST .. no sprint.. halo reach sprint was added and halo 4- halo 5.. where am I going with this.. enhanced mobility is lie.. and doesn’t need to be in halo.. it’s not about change.. or being an old halo fan.. it’s about what works best for the game.. sprint will probably never go away.. but all I can say is halo does not need it.. if anything.. up the pace at which the master chief walks.. simple.. it’s not hard.. and don’t compare halo to a doom clone for this suggestion.. halo will never be doom.. lol not even close
Sprint =/= fast mobility.
The game that really started pushing with this trend was Titanfall. Sure, I love both games and both Titanfall games function super well. But look at the map design, very vertical maps due to wall running/wall jumping, long maps due to the high speed. But while doing all of this, you can still reload, switch weapons, shoot your gun, throw grenades, everything.
Modern Halo, on the other hand, locks you into a predictable movement. While Halo may be played like chess at high levels, even in the modern games, and that has been a theme in Halo for as long as I can remember, Halo 5's movement makes it so much closer to a control and collapse gameplay style, having many play the same play styles. This is because you have so many mechanics to be aware of, yet they have relatively high depth that isn't taken advantage of.
Where Halo 4 and 5 fail to deliver "enhanced" mobility, other games, like Titanfall, excel at it due to them being developed with these in mind, and how they should interact with each other. Halo 5 feels rushed, and other mechanics, alongside sprint were not considered while developing (which is why the whole multishot thing existed).
It’s incredible that you understand better Halo than 343.
unfortunately many of the community members had more of a relationship with bungie than microsoft did.
it was was a huge mistake for MSoft to hire 343i.
343 is in such serious denial they just wont let go of sprint. Such a shame. Well guess what: I am not going to spend my 60 hard earned dollars then if you aren't willing to give me the game I want instead of the distorted frankenstein Halo Of Duty you keep trying to cram down my esophagus..
Reach got me addicted to Sprint. It changed the entire way i played the game, for the worse. I would get into fights i had no business getting into, and simply sprint out when i was weak. I do think ghost ayame put together some really good settings for competitive reeach though. No bloom, no.sprint.
You nailed it bro!
I guess I'm minority when I say I like sprint a lot in Halo, and I think that it adds that risk/reward of being able to maneuver faster. I loved sprint/slides/clamber/directional boosts in Halo5 (multiplayer specifically), but I hated Spartan charge and ground pound. I feel like the first four give the player more movement options and helps to make you feel more like a Spartan (although instead of jet inputs for directional dashes I wish they had it as a lunge instead, specifically for the visual) since it gives you precise and variable control over your horizontal and vertical axes.
Excellent video man, I love how you touched on the points of cs never changing it's core formula as an example because I've always felt that's what has happened to halo. Sprint may now be a part of halo longer that is was not, but since it has emerged I agree that halo seems to be chasing the dragon of other games trying to compete instead of just trying to tweet and build on what made it such a wonder game in the first place. At this point I don't think we can expect to see a halo game without sprint given current iterations are just popular enough to make lots of money for them to continue pumping them out, which is kinda sad, it would be interesting to see the path halo would have taken without sprint.
Halo games will sell well regardless. Halo: Infinite could be a blank disc and it'll make $500m opening week. If they implement the correct changes, it'll positively affect player retention and they could milk the active players with microtransactions or DLC like they used to. I'd have no issue buying DLC or "season passes" if Infinite was playable.
@@TommyKost Oh yeah, especially when it's easy for them to generate marketing hype with a high cgi trailer. Me neither, it would actually be exciting to see what kind of fun maps or dlc they would come out with like in in the old days. I wouldn't even be mad about micotransactions for different skins on your br or ar you can just spawn in with in multiplayer. Nothing that would effect gameplay like in h5 like extra ammo or damage though, just for style points like in cs for getting the rarest skins.
I wouldn’t mind a halo game with just the dash ability
Would love to see a talk with you and Favyn discussing the recent Halo's and these ideas for improvement, Tom. Great video, I've never been able to fluently articulate the ways in which sprint is detrimental, and as always you nail it
Great video Tommy.
Jumping is the only movement battle tactic Halo needs.
I’ve played thousands of hours of Halo and I can safely say that Halo CE has by far the fastest gameplay. If they want to increase speed, make backpack reloading a feature instead of a bug. Part of the skill of Halo is knowing the little tricks to move faster like in CE moving perfectly straight or using slopes to fling yourself. For big maps vehicles are what increases the speed so there is no need to sprint.
I’ve also never played COD or military shooters so it was a little shocking to hear older Halos ever considered “fast.” The Doom/Quake player in me thought “that’s cute.”
Jon Wallace halo ces open missions are something seriously missing in all other titles. Well most. The only problem with ce is it’s repetitive map structure.
If I was making a halo game, I would have the music rocking the entire mission. I love when a fight starts on ce and you hear that memorable music - sadly it cuts out part way.
I think bungie intended to sabotage their own game with sprinting on purpose, hence 343 screwing up in everything. Those clever monkeys lol.
I agree with you
Reach was just their testing ground for Destiny.
I've always shared this idea. Hardly articulated it as there wasn't any concrete evidence of sabotage but that's always been my opinion.
Honestly, Bungie never considered the books as canon. I dunno why everyone forgets how at the end of Halo 3 Guilty Spark basically laid it out that Humans were actually the descendants of the Forerunners. Think about it: Forerunner technology, for some reason, is 100% compatible with human technology, and human touch. Let that sink in. And 343 would have us believe that somehow humans were the Forerunners ancient enemy? I call BS! If anything, that would be the Forerunner's cover up to ensure nobody seeks vengeance against their descendants!
I don't care if there is sprint or not, the fact is that it wasn't there before for a reason, but if you are going to put it in, at least you have to make it worth using it, not like in halo infinite where there is hardly any difference between walking or running
Sprint ruined halo for me.
It's been since Halo 3 since we've had a proper Halo game and it sucks cause Halo Infinite is forsure gonna have some sort of enhanced mobility. 343 continues to act like the first trilogy doesn't exist and now they can't go back since their games have already established the new Halo fans that like enhanced mobility. If they went back to classic completely they would lose their shit.
Most in the pro sprint camp are Reach kids who don’t Halo
*Simple solution:*
_Halo 3_ mechanics and maps, but with the option to enable any type of Sprint in Custom Games on Forge Maps that can be elongated.
I don't know why 343 insists on making halo something it is not. Halo has its roots in arena shooters, and while those games are fast, at no point did you have to put your gun down or slow down in any way; combat and movement were all one. This is part of what makes the AFPS genre have such a high skill gap, as players must master shooting on the move, with fast targets, making even stationary aim challenging for beginners. Add to this map pickups, complex and tactical level geometry, and logical spawn systems, and you some super sweaty gameplay. 343 may think that sprint adds depth, but in reality, whatever depth sprint adds is pyrrhic at best, and as a result, fundamentally alters the combat loop; players now run or gun, instead of run and gun. Even worse, stretched out maps (as compensation for the large movenebt delta) make engagments happen at signifanctly longer ranges, when up until now, halo always revolved around close/medium ranges firefights. Given these negatives, I can't really find a good argument for sprint as a necessity, other than for "immersion", which isn't a strong argument anyway. 343 easily could make halo faster, but they are going about it completley wrong.
Ps: if 343 really wants to make movement skill based (as if skill jumps weren't a thing before) , maybe the could look to quake with its strafe hopping techinque(s).
Welp it doesnt matter, since its not going to be Halo as previous games.
Its going to be Destiny lookalike game
in my dreams halo infinite won't have sprint but the movement will be like h2 and the thruster pack still here
Thrust means a lot of bullet magnetism is needed making the game less skilled and more random.
@@b3njys235 the same magnetism seen in h4, i mean we could reach a compromise between speed and the needs for a controller
Never stop making these great video's Tommy your voice is essential to the halo community and we can only hope 343 is listening to us and makes Halo Infinite great. They need to go back to their original formula and keep it the same. No armor abilites, no sprint! They need to use Hitscan for the bullet registration on all weapons and they need the same movement speed as Halo 3. They also need to make memorably maps like The Pit, Guardian, and Narrows again. They keep trying to make things too futuristic when the majority of halo fans want them to keep what they did in Halo 2 and 3 and just build upon that style of gameplay and campaign! That's all we want!
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
🤞🏼please let infinite be good. Just give us an old school halo game.
Why have a unique game that hundreds of thousands love, if you can make a game that a million will buy, but only a few thousand will love. It's all about the $$$. Bungie cared for its games and treated them all with respect, but when they knew they wanted to no longer work on Halo, they put together Reach, not caring about long term effects (rightfully so). Now all Microsoft cares to do is beat the dead horse that is Halo until it stops bringing them in money.
All the spartan gimmicks do is make the game "feel" fast. The exact same thing could be achieved by increasing the field of view, weapon sway and slightly increased base movement speed. None of these would have the detrimental effects that sprint, armor abilities and the other gimmicks have had on Halo.
Totally agree. The FOV is a solid argument as well. I was initially planning to bring that up but chose not to as additional evidence wasn't necessarily needed.
I enjoyed the Halo series for a lot of reasons. It somehow took until Halo 2 or 3 for me to finally notice it. Somehow I gravitated towards the much enjoyed Playstation 2 the first time I ever went to Blockbuster and really encountered video-games. For a long time I could only watch Halo and couldn't play even Halo: CE until I got it for PC back in 2010. Played the Halo: Reach beta sometime after. I enjoyed both greatly. The point is that I wasn't part of Halo's "glory days", I just observed them. So I don't think there's any worry about nostalgia blinding me here.
343 Industries talked about the "Spartan fantasy" in those videos leading up to Halo 4's launch, but what we got was a re-run of Bungie's experiment in Halo: Reach for the most part, as well as a mere trend chasing. It was not Spartan-like. It was not Halo. After thinking a lot of things through, I've come to believe that IF Sprint is to stay it needs to be Spartan-like. Trained soldiers can already run and gun and Spartans certainly can as well, only much better and they can move quickly in every direction. You can have a nice little animation for that increased speed and appropriate accuracy penalties for firing while running if need be, but that gun should never go down until it drops from its owners hands. Clamber can be spoken of similarly, keeping in mind the way a Spartan only has one hand to shoot with in that moment. It's not just for the sake of the "Spartan fantasy" either.
Before Sprint was in Halo there was this union between moving and attacking that never came undone while wielding a weapon. "We need to fight". The player was always ready for a fight to a certain degree. Sprint as it has been since Halo: Reach is a mode that undoes that union and puts players in a mode that tones down the "fight" and ups the "flight". It shifts a player's thoughts away from how they can move and shoot to achieve their objective to just how they can move. Even if they think about the shooting to come after that, their thoughts and that whole mode is just about moving because they can't shoot, they can't nearly as easily place their cross-hair somewhere in anticipation of their next shot.
It affects more than just the player who is sprinting as well as people chasing them will often feel they have to sprint to not lost their target, but while they do that they're not shooting. In fact it creates scenarios where people are just running after each other and thoroughly discouraged from pitting their aim against one another. It cuts down on the number of times people decide to turn and make a stand since they think things will be better if they avoid any kind of fighting and keep running. When it comes to objective game modes you've gone from someone fighting their way past enemies with good movement and shooting, to trying to just blitz past the enemies in their way, meanwhile those enemies are in a sense at a disadvantage because they have no speed boost for moving backwards. I could go on with other scenarios, but Sprint as a mode that does away with shooting in a far more frequent way than being in a vehicle or carrying an objective changes so much about how players play and thus changes the formula of Halo dramatically.
I believe that the "Spartan fantasy" of enhanced mobility can be achieved if proper adjustments that respect the union between movement and shooting are made. I could very well be wrong that having a speed-boost that work in all directions, has unique animations (hey, throw in one for when not shooting, sure) and appropriate accuracy penalties for shooting while moving at higher speeds can be just as good as sticking to one speed + jumping. I also believe that maps can be made with areas that make use of the enhanced mobility, as well as areas that require and reward more careful and precise movements. What I want most is to see 343 Industries test it out together with the community.
Halo 2 was originally going to have sprint but it was cut, now if it wasn't cut I wonder if the Halo community would be upset if Sprint got removed in let's say Halo 4 or 5.
Would be a really interesting timeline lol.
Also I think they could just increase the movement speed to make it more fast paced like DOOM.
So we wouldn't need no sprint.
0:53 I would like to read the rest of that thread.
Tommy Kost You should make a video on how important vehicles are to Halo. I've been playing some Halo 5 big team battle lately and I noticed that there were barely any vehicles on the maps. Also the maps weren't suited for lots of vehicles and encouraged hand to hand combat. 343i needs to go all out with Infinite and add every single vehicle we've had in each Halo game, up until this point, back into the game. Vehicles are a BIG part of Halo and I would hate to see them get the short end of the stick this time around.
Concise and to the point.
So much truth in 1 video
Solution: make the gameplay like Doom 2016 but alittle slower keep clamber no double jump like doom though just increase the jump height and base movement speed like we can do in forge settings then for all these people that like certain abilities change the spartan and armor abilities into power up equipment like halo 3 with timers so it’s balanced but no sprint pls or armor lock just no nooooo.
Your supposed to pair sprint with sliding and thrust.
I know Octopus Beak we are in the same "clan" I didn't expect to see his gamertag here at 1:36. Also good video I dislike sprint in halo as well.
My god I miss the old Halo 3 days. Basically grew up playing halo 3. Got a 50 in TD,TS and helped a friend get his in MLG ( felt like I got a 50 too LOL personal highest was 47 or 48 ) I miss the good old dayzzzz!!!! “ one shot in our pit!, 2 in green box!, I’m going rockets, you go invis” 😂😂😂. Halo 3 was the most competitive Ive every played a video game, have never had the same experience since. I was not fond of reach at all, and didn’t even touch halo 4. Halo 5 was decent but didn’t play much ranked at all. Give us a new halo with halo 3 ranking system please!!!
Good video
I don't know I have mixed feelings for Sprint if they add it to Halo infintie I would mind if they took it out I wouldn't mind as well
Makes sense that they would remove sprint because mc switched back to an older armor.
Edit: the armor is not actually older. I meant inspired by the older designs.
L9stFreed0m What? That doesn’t make sense at all.
@@ToxicBalloon360 Sprint is an armor ability. The armor has always been the same across campaign and multiplayer. So if MC is wearing an older armor in the campaign...
@@crashmer Sprint isn't an armour ability. Spartans don't need an armour ability to be able to sprint. Are you implying that the Spartans, canonically, walked around in their older armour?
@@ToxicBalloon360 Pause @ 1:25. From H1-3 the spartans could run but not sprint.
@@crashmer They couldn't sprint because the game mechanics didn't allow them to. Canonically they still could. The ability to sprint was never tied to the iteration of armour Spartans wore.
Dont u just wish they had the balls to just re do h2 over and over and calling them h4 and h5 with graphic upgrades
Anyone here honestly think infinite wont have sprint? I fucking hope they leave it out but cant see it happening
Infinite should increase the base running speed of player to be similar to Ce's. Fast enough to make it feel less like a slog on 3&Reach but not too fast where your blitzing across the map.
i 100% agree
If you ask any of the 20 best competitive small team map forgers (aka the best design minds in the community) if sprint or any other Halo 5 ability should stay in Halo, they'll tell you that it hinders map design, slows the game down and should fuck right off. That ought to tell people enough.
I think sprint should be disabled for the smaller 4v4 modes and enabled for btb because it does help getting across those larger maps in a more efficient manner.
There's alternative ways to cover ground without enhanced mobility. Teleporters, mancannons, vehicles, etc.
Tommy Kost That is true but most of the time even with those it still takes a while to move across the map and you don’t always spawn near a teleporter, man canon, or all the vehicles could be taken and some maps don’t even have them or a lot of vehicles.
Well, the removal of sprint would influence map design. Instead of spreading teleporters out, they'd be near player spawns like they were in previous Halo titles.
I love your videos
And my videos love you!
#NoSprintInHaloInfinite
Nice video! You obviously did your research
I think its ok to add some new mechanics with all the reinventing of the older Halo's the new ones have to have some new dynamic movements or they would not have to come out with a new game at all. Its understandable that there are pros and cons to this kind of change but I dont think that they are hurting the franchise and i do have to disagree that they are trying to chase down trends i think halo is the opposite, they are the trend setters when it comes to shooter games. I know for a fact that if you said that there was a jet pack in the new halo that there would be some excitement but there will also be some hate. At this point they can't make every one happy but i trust that the creators will do right by the fans old and new.
Ever since Reach Halo has done nothing but implement the current trends into the game and ever since then it's tanked the franchise, because now Halo doesn't stand out anymore. So yes 343s changes has done nothing but hurt the franchise. Halo USED to be the trend setter in the original trilogy. They can't do right by both new fans and old. Halo 5 was a good example of them trying to satisfy both communities and that didn't go well either.
I believe that they are making a statement by coming out with halo reach remaster, I feel as though they are going to take the information learned by the community and take some of the best parts from that particular game because lets face it halo reach was a lot bigger success than it gets credit for but it was the most different one in the franchise. Now that there going to be a some what comfort at least with that crowd of fans they can also bring some old school mechanics back as well. They do try to tend to both crowds and I am looking forward to the new Halo, I feel like Halo never had a bad game and never will. Master chief is still and always will be the posterboy of Xbox.
👌
You guys should record a discussion
Again. Great video. I started really playing halo on reach. Although I have played halo 3 a little I still thought that sprint was not necessary in Halo at all. When halo 5 came out I couldn’t play more than a month and moved back to MCC. It just felt better to not sprint and have these disgusting added moves to deal with in halo 5. I like halo 4 but halo 5 is way to much like titan fall and COD.
I'm 20 years old. Jumped in at halo at h2 a few months before h3 came out. And I wanna take the time to say thanks you for this video tommy. Hit the nail on the head here.