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Eddy Current Inspection of Piper Wing Spars
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- čas přidán 21. 07. 2019
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In this video we invited Brad and Josh Chojnacki from BJC Consulting to demonstrate their Eddy current testing equipment to help determine the state of your airplane wings and spars. We sincerely appreciate them for making the trip to us and for sharing such valuable information! If you would like to contact Brad and Josh for more info see below:
BJC Consulting
Brad Chojnacki
(269)-569-3452
jetcheckerbrad@gmail.com
Contact Us For More Information!
Airframe Components is located in Kendallville, IN.
Website: www.airframeicomponents.com
Phone: 260-347-0807
Email: info@airframecomponents.com
Excellent video thx, Ignorance is bliss! I am glad I did not know about this possible problem when I flew back from Freeport Bahamas to Republic airport on Long Island in full out severe turbulence at night in my 1968 pa28 140, N1865J , through the Bermuda triangle on Friday the 13 th. ya cant make this stuff up! I had 96 total hours including training hours, my Cherokee
had north of 14,500 hours airframe TT. almost 100% training hours at Zahns airport next to salt water, I did that flight in 1980, I think. Sold 65j about 35 years ago, still around but not flying, would love to see her now, must have 18 to 20 thousand hours by now. This plane was one of the fleet of trainers from Zahns, they all had well over 14 thousand hours, none ever failed at least till then, makes you wonder why they are failing with half those hours now!
96 total hours including training hours flying through the Bermuda triangle on Friday the 13th? Sheesh! You were really sticking your neck out there and taking your chances big guy.
10:55
Wow Zahns. going back a long time, I cant even remember how long ago it closed.
Good information, this should help the Piper community out with questions.
I think the body of the AD and the Piper Service Bulletin would be much better.
Fantastic video- thank you for producing these informative clips!
I forgot to add that I am a Level III/NAS410/NAMP/A&P with 49 years of experience, and the USAF/USN/USMC sees no end to MT and PT in the near future. Some Crew chiefs are issued PT kits for the nose gear and a few other things after training is conducted. I do not particularly like this but that is the way of things.
Great video. Thanks to all of y'all.
Boa noite sou chapiado gosto desse serviço
I would have liked have a solution explained. These guys are A&P's. Can the enlarged hole be reamed? is there a small part which can be replaced? Cost for the relacement? Does the spar need replacing? Also, can these tests be done with the wing still on the plane? So many questions.
Información muy importante
Question. Piper just issued SB 1345 March 27, 2020. I am in Texas and have been searching the internet for NDT outfits without much luck. Is there an association that may be helpful?
Who's this guy Eddie Current.
1980s Rock Legend.
I have both the Olympus N600 and the N600D and the cost is $23,000.00 and $27,000.00 respectively. This does not include all of the reference standards that you will require. As far as an old needle deflection type ET tester the old ED-520 or Nortec will still get the job done. Any discontinuities I find I will always go back with another method to verify. PT or UT for Alum., and yes I have an Olympus N650 UT tester. All are great, rugged, and cost-effective. But sometimes for in-lab work, I like to use the older dial gauge units that give me more flexibility. Everything depends on the operator and his experience. Over 4 decades for myself. I would have liked to had one of these back in the day when going up the verticle tail hell-holes of C-5 and C-141s, prior to the leading edge x-rays.
Are the Seminole and the Seneca wing spars suspect since both aircraft are based off of the Pa28 and Pa32 respectively?
Just wondering why you didn’t set up the mini mite to show the location of the indication.
I’ve done a few bolt hole inspections with indications and was able to locate an indication that ran the length of the hole because I was able to find the location of the crack and switching to the pencil probe i was able to let the client know where the crack originated, the direction and the length.
Is the eddy data logged & mapped & sent to FAA? Can bad holes be reamed out to next size bolt?
how do you do this on the airplane
Seems reasonable. Ream out the joint, re-inspect for cracks. If good, install over-size fastener, preferably interference-fit.
That’s so awesome would love to get into that I have my Eddy Current class hours and certificate just looking for an opportunity
For better or for worse (probably better), this eddy current thing seems like the way the FAA has chosen to deal with a fleet of aged aircraft. I can imagine there will be a whole BUNCH of failed spars when the inspections start occurring. Piper has to be breathing a sigh of relief as well, given that it's going to take liability out of the fleet for them...which isn't a bad thing at all. My guess is that it's also going to result in a few sales of new wing spars as well.
About one out of one hundred so far.
Dye penetrant is still a very reliable way to find a crack in the wall of the bolt holes.
The AD specifically requires eddy current inspection if the factored hours are above 5000
@@egonkemp3512 it’s a pretty involved inspection, i don’t know why someone would be doing it outside of the ad. Peace of mind perhaps. Dye pen works to a degree given the right surface and discontinuity. Its great for spot checking but with more critical inspections there are much more accurate methods now. I think he was just mostly pointing out his dislike of these shade tree dye pen checks that came with the old ad.
I'm going to go ahead and do it early and try and get a blessing from the FAA for early compliance.
Do it do it do it blessings blessings blessings.
It would have been nice if you would have shown the issue with the doubler plate and where it was at.
Couple questions; Why is there no display erase enabled? And why isn't the sweep/extrn mode enabled to aid in locating the clock position of the crack? Thanks
FAA has put out an AC Advisory Circular its cannot take away dye penetrant from an A&P Mech its just a recommendation
Thanks for the demo check for minute damage cracks re the AD in the wing spars, using the all seeing tool. the demo how was fine, but this A&P did't catch many details, the kid looked camea shy. Thanks. I'll get a better show later.
Who got this video after seeing the Christy Wong video?
My wings are off due to shipping. I'm going to have the inspection done once I find an NDT. That's the fun part to find one in my area that will come out to the airport.
Richard Borgerding where are you located and where do you need the inspection done at?
@@courtneychojnacki1035 Hi Courtney. I'm at Darke County Airport KVES just outside of Versailles OH. I'll be ready for an NDT eddi current probably this spring. I'm working on my Citabria first. We have a few Pipers on our airport that may need this inspection done.
Richard Borgerding BJC consulting travels to your area and airport for these inspections. You can set it up to have multiple pipers/planes done at once to save money on travel costs. Please give Brad or Josh a call for a quote or to set up a future inspection. Brad Chojnacki (269-569-3452) Josh Chojnacki (269-330-4859)
could this type of indication be found with a regular 90.5 100-500khz probe?
Thanks for sharing this 'life saving' technology. It such a shame that these Piper spars/connection points are showing fatigue radiating out from the plate holes.💬🕳✍
Do Cessna’s have to worry about this same fatigue issue?
Brad!!!
For the carry-thru, they inspected the wrong holes. The most inboard holes would the most critical for cracking.
They are doing the inspection on the wing spars not the carry through box.
@@egonkemp3512
At 12:20 they check the carry-thru. Maybe this was just a demo and they would normally check all the holes, not sure.
We had encountered cracks on both wing spar and carry thru hole.
did you mean to say " a new spar (doubler) going on the spar...spar going on the aircraft?"
How much does it cost to have this NDT done?
Reach out to me later, I'm in the process of getting a quote this week.
@@winstonsmith6204 how much?
@@ctsteve1967 it ran me $350
@@ctsteve1967 but I live near a facility in Florida that performs them. Find a place and fly out to it if possible. Make sure you have the forms ready so they can fill out all of the changes paperwork and make logbook entries.
red dye EVERYWHERE I did not see any under the bolt holes.
so.... what does a lower spar cap carry through from piper cost? just curious.
A lot!!!
About a doller ten eighty. Thats one at 1 doller and $10.80.
Are the new spars redesigned on any way to prevent this from happening again?
I doubt it. There was a act signed by congress for plane manufacturers (Cessna, Piper etc...) in 1994 that take liabilities away from them 18 years after the plane leaves the shop. Now, by modifying any part that window opens up another 18 years and can put them in a corner and be liable. If one has cracks, you have to test and install another set of wings after it gets it crack inspection. I love flying pipers but I will wait until this all gets worked out.
NO why would they be.
No
Liability wise, any improvement would tell every lawyer out there that the design was faulty; therefore little will ever change for the better without a fight, or completely new aircraft produced.
If they are not, they will be. Piper does not want to lose its market share. You can count on it.
This example proves to me that disassembly for purposes of satisfying the prospective AD will cause damage.
Saratoga Pilot what if there was a crack in a spar cap that nobody knew about? I’d rather have the inspection and know for sure. I think I’d just replace all parts. I know it’s expensive, but I’d rather be sure.
@@projectcontrols Without any limitation on funds, anything is possible. But this is not that kind of situation for most owners of older aircraft. If my wing spars were damaged during the inspection teardown, and I was facing a $100k repair bill on a $130k aircraft, I would scrap the airframe. I suspect most pilots would do so also. Many simply would not have the funds. Most don't even have the money for the ADS-B upgrade. Cost considerations cannot be ignored.
@@saratogapilot6100 It's not aimed at pilot owners though, and is only proposed to be required for aircraft that have been subjected to flight school training regimes over thousands of hours.
@@saratogapilot6100 The AD will act as a reality check on the value of antique training airplanes that were not designed with a fifty year 20,000 hour service life in mind. The arguments against inspection based on hope as a strategy are not very compelling. The arguments based on the potential for maintenance induced failure are more compelling.
@@saratogapilot6100 Im sorry if this sounds harsh, but if the owner of a plane cant afford a proper inspection of his aircraft to rule out a defect that if existent has a 100% chance of killing everyone in the plane and maybe more people on the ground that person should really reconsider if airplane ownership is such a good idea for him or her.
Im not rich either, matter of fact i dont even own a plane. But if i did own a PA28 id make sure this issue got solved, even if that meant saving up for a couple months and keeping the plane grounded during that time. Replacing both wingspars is surely much less than 100k anyways, and its just not worth the risk.
CORRECT
I would be curious to know how Piper finished these holes that these guys are inspecting. Did they drill first then ream the holes out to the final size? .015” is a pretty tight tolerance for an accept/reject. Did Piper countersink these holes to relieve stress risers? If Piper didn’t ream the holes properly as they should have, a drill-only operation could have easily left an indication in the metal within the hole which could be cause for rejection (ie, it could have left the factory brand new with a greater than .015” indication).
Hey Burt where is Ernie?
These wing spars just seem woefully inadequate. I'd love to buy a PA-32 someday, but I wonder if I'm better off (safer) saving my pennies for a Cessna.
Its gonna take a lot more than pennies buddy.
@@egonkemp3512 ha ha
I'm thinking of buying a PA-28 but the seller is worried about any damage occurring from removing the bolts could an x-ray/ultrasound be sufficient or do I need to push for an Eddy test?
2 questions.
Can eddie current inspections of spars and major structural components be done on any aircraft without having to remove wings ?
If as he says, the oil from the red die holds moisture and can cause corrosion, would Corrosion X or ACF 50 cause the same problems ?
no one Knows
Oven Recycle aluminum
I appreciate your videos. They are very informative. However, this one is doing a DISSERVICE to the Piper community in that you are using a wrecked wing and didn't say so. Perhaps you are just try sell a service that may or may not be necessary at this point. Is that the wing that caught the object that pushed it into the fuselage? I never heard an explanation or comment other than "its a good thing we took it off". And a better discreption of what the graph would have been better. This video has perhaps prompted, unintentional or not, fear and now I'm sure several people are either scared to fly their piper or are lining up for testing. Not
A good video, but I wish we would have had a better look and better explanation of what could be seen on the screen when comparing an OK piece or a damaged piece. Fell a little short there.
Did a lot of talkin, but not really a lot of showin.
Truly technical folks would like to see the display on your eddy current black box while your scanning good/bad bolt holes. How do you use your machine to find spar fatigue? a lot of unanswered questions.Or if we want more detailed answers, we can hire you to come out and 'splain it? at an hourly rate of course... no one likes giving their secrets away.
I think the camera crew would only zoom in on the scanner if the hosts were talking about details shown in the screen. They didn’t talk about it, so the camera didn’t zoom in on it. I didn’t see anything on that screen that showed the difference between intact metal and one with fatiguing. Would have been very easy to show. They mentioned the wing spar had a crack, but they didn’t show the screen on the display. Didn’t learn anything from this video.
Indeed--not a very illustrative video in that sense. I would have also liked to see a little better explanation of the actual defect indication on the spar. I wasn't quite sure just what I was looking at, other than a "peak".
Yes! I want to see how they identify fatigue in the spar itself, not just bolt holes.
@@arlynsmith9196 That's where the problems start apparently...in the bolt holes. So I guess if they can find a defect (eg; small crack) starting in a bolt hole, then that's all they need to show in order to reject the part. At least that's the way I interpret the information presented in the video.
Yeah it sucked.
Because a wing fell off on an embryriddle aircraft in Daytona Florida. Killed the student and instructor.
Because? And?
It's a pretty weak spar, all things considered. Look how easily this wing snapped off: czcams.com/video/Fr7hAJmq5Pg/video.html
A mechanic with penetrant in his tool box??? 😂😂😂😂😂😂
"1 says : So that indication shows THAT THERE IS LITTLE TO NO DISCREPANCY? 2 Says : correct. 2 Says : It would have to be half that height to be rejectable. 2 says: basically they are saying approximately .015 is a rejectable indication. 1 says : SO ITS A GOOD THING THE WINGS CAME OFF! " ( They certainly need to be a lot clearer on whether or not the wing failed the test)? Next time maybe they should try communicating with grunts and groans?
Yeah, the whole thing was pretty confusing. But they are mechanics and not talk show hosts. I do believe they're looking for elongated bolt holes.
By the way, if you have a pa28, you can move your wing fore and aft from the wingtip to feel and listen for any "play" in the spar attachment. Pilots have actually discovered the problem, if its really bad, by doing that.
The self interest in this video is palpable. Good presentation though
And the fear is palpable tooooooooo.
This felt so awkward to watch.
yes the older guy seems like an ass
i call bs on the dye.
the dye does work
that young guy has the shiftiest eyes ive ever seen I wouldnt trust him to look at my car much less my airplane!. Tell him to shave and act more professional as well as get his eyes fixed