Why is Hardwood so Hard to buy and so expensive in UK?????
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- čas přidán 19. 10. 2023
- Really: This video is really just a rant about the not only the cost hardwoods in the uk, but also the almost non existent supply chain down in the Southwest. OK so you can source standard types like Oak / Ash / Maple etc but if you want to get something a little more exotic then best of luck.
Or am I wrong??? Do you know where to get exotics from? Please, please leave a comment.
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The availability and prices of hardwood in the uk are difficult. Unfortunately in the uk people are not interested in nice chopping boards with exotic timber. You see people in the US selling boards for 400 - 500 dollats that here you would struggle to get 50 quid for. Different attitudes and tastes. In the uk the only people who know or appreciate any timbers other than oak and pine are woodworkers
Matt Estlea is building a map of all the UK timber suppliers. Duoer handy as most timber merchants are terrible at marketing themselves.
I live in Scotland and need to buy most my wood for England. Surry Timbers is the only website thats easily usable.
Importing Exotic timber is now a nightmare. We were part of a single market that was giving economic stability. Not perfect sure but stable and solid. An importer now has apply for a CITES permit through APHA. I had the misfortune to deal with them for a small order from the EU. The amount of documentation needed for such a simple task is unbelievable. APHA response takes more than 30 days. If something is not right you need to add another 30 days for an update. In the meantime Border Force may seize the goods. Then you need to apply for a Notice 12A. Border Force is understaffed and lead time is 4 to 5 weeks. So if you are lucky you may get your order after 8/9 weeks. It is too complicated for such small interest in the UK for Exotic Woods.
I’ve been learning a little about the British timber industry an it always seemed a contradiction to me that we are world famous for English Oak and yet we can barely afford it or even find a decent supplier of it. Basically from my understanding during the two wars we absolutely destroyed a lot of our timber forests and then normal forests for timber for the war effort. Then post WW2 no one really managed the forests anymore so the industry almost died apart from a few big companies that survived and small private one man sawyer type operations. Hence why we have loads of cheap pine usually from Eastern Europe and hardly any hardwood. We don’t really produce lumber anymore as a country.
Im in Gloucestershire and the only hardwood I can get is oak, and that comes from farms that mill thier own. I occasionally see slabs of other hardwoods pop up on auctions but the prices are crazy. I mainly work with mdf and its impossible to find high quality unless i do a bulk order of £750 or more.
Hi Graham. You might want to try Surrey Timbers Ltd just outside Guildford. They are located on the Loseley Park Estate.
I about fell out of my chair when I seen the prices that you are paying for timber over there in the uk. I live in indiana in the USA. Now I appreciate even more of the opportunity that I have to be able to harvest my own timber.
I use reclaimed timber and dress it with a jointer/thicknesser. Great for native hardwoods and a third of the price.
Another Great Video 😊
Based near Exeter so not too far from you. Agreed, nightmare to find any sort of local timbererchant without crazy prices.
I only tinker in the shed at the weekend as a hobby so not too bad for me, but I feel your pain!
Look at how many species of wood that you wanted compared to how many are actually grown here in the UK .. a lot has to be imported and at a guess, not near where you live. Inflation / transport costs all increase the price. As normal, a case of supply & demand.
Its fairly similar all over. Have a look at skinny donkey based in south wales.
Devon Hardwoods and Yandles are my preferred suppliers but I feel your pain and completely understand the problem. I would also be a little concerned using some of those species on a chopping board.
Fellow kernow here, I also struggle. Tavistock woodlands used to be good but I think they changed hands and just started specialising in softwood construction timber.
i agree the price of timber is incredible at the moment (i'm new so have no reference)
I have a local timber yard that i buy my bits from)
hope you find something
Hi, I stumbled on your channel a couple of days ago. I thought I recognised a fellow Cornish accent!
Getting any supplies into the county is a nightmare. It's the transport that kills it.
I'm looking into making a longbow, either self yew bow or osage, or a laminate bow from ash, purple heart, lemonwood, maple, cherry, walnut, hickory etc.
Some of the prices are ridiculous. It's hard enough to source somewhere that sells the material. Another problem is shipping a 6 foot length of timber. Ideally I would want to see the wood for myself. I need straight tight grain, no knots, cracks etc. So risking hundreds of pounds on a piece of timber only to be unworkable makes it impossible.
Good luck!
We lost our timber during the two world wars as it was used in the wars. We cant grow timber as fast as we're using it and we cant keep logging it at the rate we are and this applies in most countries. The larger continents can just about keep pace which means importing, which means expense. The more people bang on about more roads and houses the less space to grow trees!
I feel your pain! Only Re-used and recycled materials for this guy.
I’ve found the best and only way to keep prices down is to use local timbers and that often does mean small scale suppliers (e.g. a chap with a barn somewhere). You have to work with what they have available. The chaos in the industry due to the double punch of Brexit and the pandemic haven’t helped either.
Final thought. Buying rough sawn slabs costs you your time for processing but does definitely save money. Not for the exotics though of course.
Hi Graham
Sadly i do not have the complete answer as i have a very similar problem up here in oxfordshire, however one suggestion would be to treat yourself to a day off and take the lovely Tina up to Somerset to Yandles in Martock if you are not aware of them they have an amazing self selection centre with a really good selection including some timbers ive never even heard of, everything is individually priced so no nasty suprises they also have a decent tool shop and most importantly an excellent cafe with great cake, worth a look
Best wishes
David
Excellent suggestion David. 👍🎁
I second Yandles, feel their prices are pretty good, its 3 hour round trip for me but well worth it.
I feel your pain - I have the same problem here in Greece. In fact, it’s much worse because there seem to be far fewer woodworkers here and the only timber available is construction grade. I can get small lots of some hardwoods from Athens, but it requires a 500km round trip, plus motorway tolls, so the expense of getting the wood goes through the roof!
They say nobody gets into woodworking to save money . . . but still, being able to make a little bit would be nice, haha.
I sympathise
Hi Graham. I agree the prices have become insane and have risen dramatically in recent years. In Arkansas, there is good availability and after some conversion, the prices you indicate are pretty much on par with what I pay including sales tax. I have to drive 86 miles each way to get to my preferred supplier where I can hand select the timber. If I were to purchase in bulk (not hand selected), I could get it for less and have it delivered for $30 if I have a $300 minimum order (not hard to achieve these days). I have found some cabinet shops near me that will sell timber from their existing stock or add to one of their orders. That may enable you to get near bulk pricing without the bulk order. Steve
Why must it be so painful.....
Abour timber in the North East are good foe exotic timbers and the despatch to all areas and are reasonably priced they have a website to look at
I hear ya Graham. I'm in the Pacific Northwest (Spokane, WA) and I've witnessed a 40% increase in BF prices across the board (pun intended). Dont get me started on the lunacy in the sheet goods world. I've lost out on a handful of commissions recently because of the cost of materials. It's becoming more and more difficult to find suppliers and quality materials that aren't breaking the bank.
Totally, the cost of materials alone is pushing the cost of a prodcut up past the perceived value in the purchasers eyes.
Hi Graham, Try Surry Timbers They are Great I have travelled from Birmingham to purchase, Great supply and soooo helpful . Regards Jim
Thanks Jim. 👍👍
I’ll have a word with my neighbour who happens to be a hardwood sales rep for the south west but as far as I know they say there’s no money in it for them to sell to the little guy hence why it’s a nightmare to buy it down here. he will have the answer for sure, I’ll try and catch him this weekend.
Thank you.
I don't have an answer but I have a theory. We as a country are rapidly losing skills, particularly things like woodworking. Schools have dumbed down their courses to below Blue Peter levels because of risk averseness. We have far less boatbuilders and many people seem happy with IKEA furniture, so perhaps the demand for good quality timber has fallen to levels where timber merchants can't be bothered to stock it. There is a great business near me which used to stock an amazing range of timbers and 4 years ago I bought a large quantity of sapele for considerably less than half the price of say chestnut or maple. I have noticed though that at the moment they have very few species, these days, no maple, western red cedar, maple, cherry or sapele and almost everything is waney edged where the wastage is likely to be massive. Seperately i was buying some recyled timber from a local charity for a project and they have a workshop for teaching, they were selling 3 smallish mahogany chest of drawers for £40 each, i nearly bought them just for the timber but naively though it a shame to do so as they were such lovely pieces. Dark wood furniture is so out of fashion that maybe it will soon be the only option for getting quality timber.
You have a theory but it's nowhere near the real reasons.
We don't grow exotic woods here, on a small, rather densely populated island.
In case you haven't noticed, 4 years ago was before a) Brexit, b) global pandemic and c) war in Ukraine.
@@YaaLFH it would be hard not to notice the things you mention, although there are a great many stupid people around who might not and who might even have voted for Brexit . I’m not sure Brexit has much to do with this particular problem although I agree it is a disaster. The mahogany family hardwoods are grown in tropical areas, Honduras, Brazil, Asia ,Africa, which are neither in Europe nor do the trees grow in Europe so our import of them is one of the few things not really affected by Brexit. Cherry and walnut and western red cedar can and do grow on our tiny island and we have the ability to grow many species of hardwood and softwood but our woodlands are surprisingly poorly managed, which affects supply. The Pandemic affected almost all the world but you can buy exotic hardwoods much more easily in other countries The war in Ukraine has affected birch supplies primarily as much of the supply for birch plywood comes from Russia. My theory could be wrong but I think there is supporting evidence.
Every generation thinks we are declining. Business as usual. I think it is less bad than we imagine. Things change, some good, some bad.
rupertmiller4718 firstly schools no longer do woodwork, (or metalwork) courses, thats now the domain of the colleges. It is, as you rightly say mainly due to schools not wanting to take responsibilty for the health & safety aspect. As for losing skills, this is mainly due to technology and the speed desired for turn around. I can remember engineering shops in the 90s with 20 lathe turners. Now there are 2 CNC machines! Factories employing hundreds, now there are robots. Typing pools full of female employees, now there are a handfull on computers that spell and word predict for you.
It will get worse as technology advances even more. Computers have put more people out of work, lost more hand skills and devalued skills more than anything else in the history of the earth.
Chipboard and MDF became the sign we couldnt keep up with the pace of losing forests and needed a replacement for the timber. Plastic fasteners, dowels, biscuits, loose tenons, routers, all to speed up production.
Since before Chippendale, It is and always has been, about making money. Its why we go to work!
@@FearsomeWarriorevery currently living generation has been saying everything keeps getting worse because it is, except for computers chips, which keep getting more efficient thereby counter weighting against societal collapse.
I have found that the London area seems very well catered for. Up this way we have a couple but it's a good half day round trip.
There is a great thread over on the UK Workshop forums that lists suppliers from around the country.
I have also found that most are trade suppliers that want you to buy a pallet load.
(Edited, spelling)
Could you share the thread title from the forum. Had a Google but couldn't see much.
I think he meant UK Workshop
Another commenter suggests you're based in the south west? Grantland Timber near Crediton is worth a visit. They have large boards of air dried oak and ash mostly from what I can remember. The character pieces are more expensive, but ordinary pieces are well priced. Jerry who showed me around both times I've been is a really nice guy, even delivered some big boards to me in Exeter as they were too big for my car
Thanks Harry, I'll check them out.
Its the same in Canada, unless you want cheap rubbish then the costs are the same.
That is just sad. You are paying 5-25 times the amount that we pay here in Ameriaca. I love puple Heart, just bought a bunch yeterday, I paid $14 a board foot.
Wow, just wow, that is so unfair. The joys of living on an Island! 😢
Tolkien didn’t want you to cut down the Forest of Fangorn. Poor Treebeard.
Maby I can help you. Timer has increased in price, so has fuel, so has wages. All costs have increased not just one. They all have compounded, locally grown timber has also increased due to the lack of supply, and issues with the decreases in felling licences.
How was that helping? 😊
I can say that up in Scotland it's just as bad maybe even worse to buy any sort of decent hardwood
I should very lucky what I don’t have milled I can get at a local supplier. I can get it processed for around $1.25 bdft. I have walnut, cherry, maple, elm , Osage orange and poplar all I need. Exotics I get from a local store.
I'm very envious George.👍
I'm in Ireland, where it's even worse. A limited amount of suppliers and possibly even smaller choice. Also, virtually all "exotic" timbers are coming in via the UK, so we get hit for a double whack on import duty - once when it goes through the UK and again when it hits our shores. What is the solution? Well, you either pays your money or simply, you don't use exotics. This is the road I've gone down. I found local sawmills cutting and dealing in local timbers. There is enough choice to keep things interesting, plenty of the standard timbers: Oak, Ash, Beech, with a reasonably consistent supply of the more interesting variants; spalted beech, olive ash, quarter saw oak and occasionally other things of interest, fruit woods such as pear, apple and cherry, Sycamore and Chesnut and even Irish Walnut, plus it's all traceable to source.
Take this how you like; but by buying exotic, imported timbers, you are supporting the increase in greenhouse emissions and contributing to climate change, and theoretically supporting an industry that is exploitative of workers and their rights, not to mention the natural resources of the affected countries.
All that and the reality is, that in a decades time, that Purple Heart and Paduk will be the same shade of brown as the Wenge.
ah... not to forget, you need some always useful sapele too! if you somehow find a way to get good shipping from southeast asia to uk.. i will send 2-3cubic foot your way.. foc..!
Indeed, lovely wood and my sincere thanks.👍
Out of interest where do purchase from?
Hi understand your problems .i get my timber and sheet material from a company called James lathams they just are quite big company .their in essex by dartford Bridge .
Thanks Richard.
Thanks .
Did you manage to find any new suppliers? Will you do a follow up on different suppliers and prices/availability. Have you tried sl hardwoods?
Hi Sam, had a few suggestions, yes I will follow up with my approach and no thanks I'll take a look. 👍👍
Struggling to get hold of anything other than crappy pine (there's good pine, and there's crappy pine, good luck findin' the good stuff) here in OZtralia! I'm just about out of Merbau offcuts from the decking, the few Jarrah scraps I have left are maybe 50 years old, not many left. Cherry? This part of the rural South West of Western Australia is famed for its cherries, but if you want cherry timber, I think you have to grow your own, or import it from Bidenstan. On the other hand, people are burning trees like walnut because there's no market for the timber??????????
That's terrible.
Find a Tree surgeon, they get paid to shred trees but most would prefer to sell the timber quite cheap, in effect they will then get double bubble as they are already paid to shred.
That's ok if you can store it while it seasons. Most tree surgeons only deal with fresh cut timber.I did that a while ago but I needed loads of space just to stack it.
also not affordable in the Netherlands, if it is already for sale. no hardwood for sale
Have you been to Cornwall reclaim by Redruth?
Yes.
my god your right.................................we are being ripped off
It's bad in Scotland as well
I get my stuff shipped from woodwise shipping is cheap
British Hardwoods are great
One hint: the UK doesn't produce timber. 🤷🏻♂️
Where are you buying your cherry from!? They're absolutely ripping you off - I buy it cheaper than Ash from my UK supplier.
Do you mind sharing that info?
@@GTWoodshop AC Timber Solutions in Ely, Cambridgeshire. I must admit that I order in fairly large quantities due to the nature of my work, but I've always been surprised at how affordable it is. (I'd hope they don't read this though, as I like the price as it is 😂)
Hi Oblux, thanks for the info. I'll def check them out. 👍👍@@oblux
@@GTWoodshop I've just checked the cubic ft. price (I usually pay by the cubic meter so had to do the calculation) - £56.50 on cherry.
@@oblux That sounds like a pretty good price even with vat on top. Like you I usualyy price by the m3 so about 2k, not bad. Thanks again for the info, appreciate it.
Promo-SM
Why is Hardwood so Hard to buy and so expensive in UK? Not in the UK alone , go to Belgium and then we talk 🙄🙄🤦♂🤦♂👎👎
Greed.