Why are Intel 13th and 14th Gen CPUs FAILING!?
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- čas přidán 18. 04. 2024
- Behind the scenes you guys have been messaging me asking for coverage on the 13th gen and 14th gen CPU issues coming out of South Korea where users are reporting weird video memory errors and either straight up crashing or BSODs when Gaming. Though the problem deepens in my opinion and it's only now starting to properly surface.
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#Intel #tech #CPU - Jak na to + styl
Because they didn't receive Tech YES Lovin' and a healthy dose of Australian Export Multipurpose Spray
what are the temps like in Taiwan? were you affected by the earthquake? it's been 35°C during the day and 27°C near me ( Indian coast)
@@tanmaypanadi1414 In general do expect high humidity and hot AF temperature right now.
lol
Don't buy the genocide chip
Thank you Bryan for the shoutout! That is very kind of you! I've been watching you for a long while now. I hope to be where you are one day! Keep up the great work! Also, at 15:09 thank you for this advice and if it is okay, I think this will serve as a great intro to my next video! I'm sorry to hear about Intel. That is not cool on their behalf at all. Review samples are cool but they are not worth compromising our integrity. Good on you for always doing what you do! Cheers!
Stability doesnt sound as sexy in marketing as high clocks and benchmark scores
lol definitely sounds better than mass negative PR for CPUs being returned in droves though.
Neither does turning your house into a furnace.... Everybody ragged on 13th Gen for that reason. But Intel keeps insisting on pushing power for some reason
@@jamescampbell6728Netburst is back with a vengeance
Exactly, motherboard manufacturers, especially asus, like to bypass the intel standards and have all the overclocking features turned on by default.
It's the motherboard manufacturers fault not intels
@@techyescity only after a year or so and than you can blame the customer, just like nvidia or the partner just like nvidia meanwhile the 4090 has a 90% failure rate if you play on 4K within a year....
My 14700K without limits in Prime95 crashes immediately. With PL1/PL2 limits, runs without issues and doesn't go above 85C and it doesnt even reach 253W. Crazy, today "stock" or "default" means heavily overclocked or pushed beyond limits.
Only for Intel.
@@christophermullins7163 No all motherboard vendors push the CPUs beyond specs. Now it turns out new Intel CPUs just can't handle that anymore. OC is dead anyways no point in pushing them that hard anymore beyond spec.
i remember when they abandoned netburst because it was simply not power efficient enough. just ridiculous how much power a CPU draws nowadays
I bought a 14700T 35w CPU for a project because I WANTED a very low power and low HEAT CPU... (Loque RAW ITX build).. and the damn thing kept drawing up to 109w!!!, it took a LOT of tinkering in the BIOS to limit it to 50w for a few seconds then reduce to 35w... if I wanted a component thrashed to within a degree celsius I would have bought an AMD.. at least it would have been cheaper.
its bcz overclocking is dead. im enjoying my i7 12700 non k since launch on asus tuf z690 plus wifi d4 at the cost of single i9 12900k in india
It's basically the Pentium 4 problem again.
No, with P4 Intel was pushing the CPU to high clockrates and the CPU had no stability problems.
Here it is the motherboards applying automatic overclocks that damage the CPU.
@@ABaumstumpf That's the part of the problem,but the biggest issue is Intel. They made a CPU that requests 1.5V for their x60 target on 2 cores,not only that,but shitty little E cores do the same for some reason. When you use intel's XTU,and let it set the values,it unlocks ICC to unlimited,their official software just doesn't apply safe values for CPU. It's not just motherboard manufacturers. I'm happy with my 14900k,but that's because I like toying with hardware,for a regular user,and someone who actually wants to use this cpu for work,I imagine it's pain in the ass.
@@sokantnevesti603 "They made a CPU that requests 1.5V"
They don't.
"their official software just doesn't apply safe values for CPU."
The current is not so much a problem as the voltage. Even with minimal load and low powerdraw the voltage will degrade the circuits.
"It's not just motherboard manufacturers. "
Not just, but applying a more than 100mV over-voltage (together with all the other crap) - that is 100% on the motherboards.
Intel can (and should) be blamed for allowing that.
more lies from intel!!! the reason i forget they exist. the pentium 4 lies caused friends to be at odds back in the day as the intel propaganda was false and the p4 was trash vs the athlon 64s of the era. and then the Core series was actually a STEP backwards to intels old mobile pentium 3 to progress having everything related to pentium 4 become a literal waste of time and money both for intel and the poor sods who actually paid money for pantycrust 4's
@@homelessEh Ah, the good old intel-haters. Allergic to facts but rather great at making shit up.
The older i get, the more i just want the PC to JUST WORK.
Went from my 10850K to a 7950X and glad i did, but the 10850K did not have any issues! Only wanted more cores.
yesss recent no reason not to go AMD HHHHYZEN. Back in 10th gen there were reasons to go intell.
How is it going with your 7950X in terms of gaming and overall? I have this CPU as well, but I never got the chance to push to its limits
@@MindsMusing I've got a 7900X, it is an absolute CHAMP at gaming. I understand I am CPU bottlenecked on Rainbow Six Siege running at 700 FPS Average. That being said, I cap my FPS to 280 anyways, but it is an absolute BEAST at gaming.
been using amd cpu for quite some time so far no issue, seems like Intel cpu is just getting hotter and way too much stability issue by each newer gen, it is just not efficient and more weird stability bugs
Mine works fine. This is a motherboard issue, not Intel. Not sure why this channel doesn't know that.
Happily still running a 9900k. Heats my room too so I guess that's a double win? :P
doesn't the 9900K have a lower TDP compared to all the latest high-end AMD and Intel processors today?
Yea the 9900k is actually lower power at stock then 10th gen since they just shoved more transistors of the same size into the package
@@royboysoyboy The TDP is lower but the TDP is also a lie. The power consumption of half of these CPUs that have been on the market for the last 12 years is either over or under the TDP. Some z370 and z390 motherboards ignore those TDP limits by default. The only z370 board I have that runs the 9900k by it's PL1 and PL2 specs is the Asus Z370-A.
I had a 9900k in my media system, and my mom's PC has a 9900k. They come close to 200w, stock, in all core workloads. My mom's system has a EVGA board that over-volts the CPU out of the box, so I had to spend time under-volting the 9900k to get the temperatures back within reason.
@@m8x425 It's unfortunate that the voltage set by motherboards is not stock, leading to AMD CPUs blowing up or Intel CPUs crashing games these days...
My 9900k runs below 30 degree consistently under normal load
Happy to see my boy Erock on tech being mentioned by my favorite tech tubers! as a 13700k owner, i can say i've been having so many problems, that they have eventually trickled down into my family and love life. i spent 2 years troubleshooting and i still am here, troubleshooting.
What motherboard?
@@kramnull8962 Aorus Elite AX ddr5 z690
Welcome to 2024. New products are now worse than old ones.
well so a 14th gen last about as long as it would if you clocked it to 8ghz on liquid nitrogen?🤣🤣
car guys have been dealing with crap parts or no parts since the ChyNa virus
Not just cpu parts, all of consumer products in general. They literally don't make em like they used to.
Which is why I still drive a 2003 honda civic 😂
@@tommynobaka well depends on which ones the Hondas with the old 2.0 liter engines are fine but if they have the new 1.5 liter engines they have problems so if you buy new go with the new old tech
People say this every year for the past 100 years. 😂 just like the old days, you usually pay for what you get. Half that stuff from 50-60 years ago seems like its better until you find out they used lead paint, insulated it with asbestos and its rusting out from the inside. 😂 this is sort of different. This is a company putting out the same product over and over. They keep increasing the stress on the product via too high voltages. Its 12 and 13 gen because its the same chip essentially where they made minor changes and pumped it with more power to try and stay competitive with AMD. Its like tuning your car so you can beat that other car. You might be faster but you will also break it much quicker.
Meanwhile, motherboard costs have become ridiculously high. ROG Strix boards costing almost double of intel 10th gen variants
do not buy Asus they are overpriced and have a lot of bugs and defective boards
@@rulik006 Asus software is borderline malware on my PC. It absolutely tanked performance, caused issues and was very difficult to uninstall.
If you get a STRIX anything expect to pay a premium.
Both the ROG and Strix adds an extra ASUS tax but yeah, Mobo prices sure are getting higher for no good reason.
After I built my 13700k I ran cinbench and it immediately throttled while I had seen reviews of the same CPU/cooler combo that didn't. After some digging I realized PL1/PL2 were set to 4096w (basically unlimited) in the bios on a creator board which annoyed me to no end. Set proper power limits and tested till I found the sweet spot for undervolting and went from throttling to being able to complete cinebench runs at around 89-91c and while actually using the computer I hit 85 (rendering with resolve).
I do get occasional stutters in Davinci Resolve but nowhere near as bad as I've seen in some videos like the one you did last year and while I don't game a ton anymore definitely no crashing in the games I do play. Makes me wonder if the out of the box unlimited power settings are degrading CPU's like some others have speculated in addition to whatever inherent problems these CPU's seem to have for some users.
Yeap, just finished an episode of this ordeal, after 2-3 months. It was a MSI Z790 Ace MB with the new i9-14900k, and had crashes, blue screens, and crashes when testing under AVX2 in Intel XTU. After, MIS tech support, refused to give me the correct BIOS settings for normal usage and OC usage, I ended up doing more research on my own, and ended up doing exactly what you did. All stable, now, and runs much cooler. Also, I have similar bench test results, as when it was in OC mode. The scums were MSI technicians that refused to help and provide the settings in the BIOS, that were unrealistic.
I recently came across a faulty CPU. It was an AMD Ryzen 5 5600G. Faulty CPUs are so rare in my experience that I brought a few different motherboards and RAM kits to test it with before finally realising it was the CPU.
literally replaced every part in my build with spare parts, then RMA'd my motherboard before getting a new one back, and realizing it was the Intel CPU. absolutely unheard of to have a problem with a new CPU, especially since they don't even have pins anymore!!
😅 there a channel where he likes to say "it's never the CPU until it is"
Hey man love your show. Do keep up your market analysis as well. I was really enjoying those episodes
Same those are my favorite type of episodes.
Sure can make a J powell related tech update analysis for you guys!
@@techyescity Do that i would love some XXX perspective!
I feel it's a combination of many things causing the problems. "New design" CPUs that don't match the marketing spin; some overclocking-happy users; motherboard and GPU designers pushing everything too far and expecting the CPU to fix any design shortfalls; poorly optimized games; monitors demanding more from the CPU; GPUs that run hot and overwhelm the case cooling. Etc etc. I do feel there are some motherboards adding to the problems, with expectations that software and the CPU can fix hardware fragility
Why would you even overclock it if it runs to the wall without doing anything.
@@HappyBeezerStudios some people seem to believe Real computers must be overclocked. Rather like all cars needing fluffy dice 😂
Here it is the motherboards applying automatic overclocks that damage the CPU.
@@katv1195 Ego problems
Glad I went with a 5800X3D and not a whole new platform.
Normal 5800X here, fine for me as I play at 4K. Intel's heaters aren't my thing anymore.
I’m on AM5. Very happy with it . Running r5 7600 with 7800xt .
@@andriusmostamy am5 rig is blue screening and restarting constantly...
Cue blind vitriol now....That's what I get when I tell people not to waste money on Zen 4. Should have been called Zen 3+. People really hate it when I point out their 'cheap' DDR5 performs worse than some SP DDR4-3200 CL16 that costs like $54 for 32GB.
5800x3D here too. agreed
I believe MB manufacturers are part of the problem by removing power limits on CPU’s. That just makes CPU’s throttle because of heat issues.
Since when do they remove the power limits by default? Also, I don't think you can remove the power limit on non-K Intel CPUs.
@@madmatt2024 My MSI Z790 mobo had 4000 watts as the "limit" at stock, which is basically not having a limit.
@@keithc2390 but then all reviewers slate intel for doing it
@@psttech4290 They "slate" İntel for not doing it lol amd does it and they don't complain about it if you are talking about intel locking down parts that's a different issue.
@@cin2110 AMD gets a pass from it's fanboys far faster than the Intel user. If you go to r/intel to mention an issue with Intel you get people trying to help. If you go to r/AMD with an issue you get an army of fanboys saying you're full of it and "I've never had a problem" bullshit. I went through a year of a nightmare Ryzen system that constantly had USB dropouts and cores parking then refusing to wake up and r/AMD was f*cking useless due to the flaming fanboys only there to run defense for the company. Turned out to be (surprise surprise) shitty AMD BIOS and it finally went away after _SIXTEEN_ BIOS updates. Sixteen BIOS updates in a year _ISN'T_ normal, no matter how much AMD copium you pile on top.
AMD makes perfectly OK products, but their fanboys are insufferable. They're completely in denial that AMD products aren't perfect.
These companies have lost sight on what they are making the products for- we will continue to see a decline of said companies due to the disrespect they show toward their client base, ie the customer- they exist because of the customer base and if they desire to neglect who is paying their paycheck, it will reverberate through the company on all levels possibly bringing the ruin.
Exactly, they serve the interests of the shareholders primarily, not the customer - the people who directly contribute to their revenue.
Until customers wake up to this nothing will change. You need vote with your wallet, and vote for the firms that are more interested in providing a superior service experience.
AMD has been listening, look at what their head of marketing said when asked about supporting AM4 in 2024 "As long as folks keep buying 'em and our board partners keep supporting them we'll keep making them" which compared to Intel switching sockets every couple years is a breath of fresh air.
How much is the motherboard’s automatic settings contributing to this compared to the chip being flawed when being pushed way out of spec?
My money is on this being the issue
I did experience some odd delays when clicking on a downloaded setup file from the Download menu in Firefox this morning on my tuned 12600K machine. I remember having to get out of Firefox and go right to the Downloads folder in Explorer and open the downloaded setup executable and it ran. During install, I got 2 additional UAC prompts, indicating the earlier clicks finally landed. But I didn't think anything about it being related to the CPU.
Will have to do more tests to see if the symptom is frequent. I didn't think anything of it until I watched this video.
I wonder if this could be related to Windows 11 software changes from updates.
Thanks for the info, it's certainly made me think about my next build .👍
hey what microphone is that? sounds very good
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Thanks Bryan for covering this.
Do you think a dead power supply i part out from my friends broken pc it looks like it shorted burnt/no power surge protector on a $3k pc. I was hoping on grabbing one of the pcie cables since its compatible i checked to use it on my evga 750w super nova psu. The dead psu has that burnt smell i think ive smelled enough power supplies ro know if its burnt. I tested it out on a psu tester and its not out putting nothing.
Great explanation, summed it up perfectly.
Just tried to get an RMA with Intel..... Worst customer service experience iv e had related to tech. In short the cpu was 3 months old.... it was bad..... they ghosted me after first contact.
I just got mine replaced a couple months ago.. with zero hassle, and had my new 13900k back within a week. They have one of the best RMA departments out of all the tech companies.. Sounds like cap to me, or you didnt provide any proof.
Depends on the region
@@LegionGamingTV I provided everything they they asked for, plus showed evidence of replacing every other part in the system. I got bad service, you were lucky you didn’t
@@LegionGamingTV I put in a separate ticket to try and get more help it was about a week before they responded. By that time I gave up.
They just offered me a refund and said there is no stock to offer a replacement…🤷♂️
I had issues with a B660 motherboard (Asus Tuf D4 to be exact). Couldn't uv or disable some stuff, it was freakin' locked.
Changed to an ASRock Riptide Z790, undervolted my 13700K, a little bit, I have no issues since then.
How much of the problem is that mouse trap ILM warping the heat spreader?
I have a 13700k and have been getting out of video memory message starting to happen and sometimes my mouse stops working have to unplug and put it back in also delayed startup at times. What is the best way to test that it is the cpu I did drop my ram speed and it did help but feels like it is slowly happening more.
Whats wrong with the 11th series vs 10th series?
Comet lake can achieve some insanely low latency timings going under 40ns in AIDA64 for example, which you can really notice the more responsive output on high refresh rates even by just moving your mouse. Not gonna comment on the mess that are the e-cores and windows scheduler.
1 question this is my first time getting scammed in fb market luckily its just a small amount but im still pissed off cause I'm still a student my question is what do you do in this situation do you just sleep wake up tomorrow and get back to work or do you just stop for a day and continue again in another day? i could've have prevented it but i just started last 3 days ago what tips do i need to learn for the future of buying used items?
I'm currently testing with i5-12600KF I have noticed at desktop there is alot of hitching. Should I consider undervolting to see if it fixes the issue?
It's sad that just a couple of years ago one of the main arguments for buying Intel was that their processors simply just work out of the box and stay stable, unlike FXs. And now its more like "Intel has higher numbers in benchmarks, I’ll be tuning the processor for a week so that it doesn’t overheat under AIO but I’ll get a better performance than AMD"
At least Intel's discrete GPUs just work out of the box and stay stable. NOT!
Fuel pump is an excellent analogy!
Was a common problem back in the day with RB upgrades on the good ol nissans :P
That analogy made me realize I made a good choice in which tech channel to follow
Thanks for sharing, I have a 13900k and had just a random stuttering issues in games, I switched motherboard, RAM and GPU nothing changed. Only when I moved back to my 10900k and was smooth and no issues with the same GPU and memory. Cooling was sufficient Noctua D15 on both CPUs
I underclocked my 13900k and it's been running great
NH-D15 is NOT enough for a 13900k. It needs a 360mm aio minimum to not throttle. It's absolutely insane how much heat it produces.
Do you have an update on this or a guide on how to set up intels recommendation, I don't know how to overclock because I haven't had anybody to teach, But people say that I need to down clock this type of processor, I am kind of out of luck when knowing how to do this or fix these issues if they are again on my new I9 14900K that I will buy tomorrow. To be honest it got worse over time to the point it started with memory issues every time I would run a direct X 12 game, shortly after programs immediately started closing, then started failing to even install window wile BOSD became extremely frequent just attempting to run windows. Thx
I have a 13700K (9 months old) and a 14700K (5 months old) both at stock pwr limits were running at 250-260 watts but I limited both at the time of initial build to 225 watts which yielded higher performance and cooler temps. I have had ZERO issues with either of them. I game, stream, video edit and render w/ each.
Imo I strongly suspect that the problem is ppl not optimizing their builds and maybe even overclocking w/o proper setup like deliding and custom loops. I do agree that Intel has probably over pushed their cpu's to try and compete w/ AMD in benchmarks but every intel cpu I have performs better w/ higher scores when I power limit them down from the stock +250 watts.
EDIT: I also have a 12900K (bought at launch) as my stream/render rig and it also has had ZERO issues but again power limited to 225 watts.
Most people never do. I used to buy broken Gaming PCs and I became used to people running the stock cooler with older i5 & i7 "K" series processors. The funny thing is, most of the time the problem with these people's PCs was the stock cooler became dislodged and the CPU was overheating.
Ironically the problem was to the people not tinkering/oc-ing their chip. Mobo manufacturer unleashing the limits by default is suspectedly what caused this issue.
So you limiting your power is the right move
ppl want complete products bro
Did a bit more research into this problem and it seems pretty definitive that the issue is mobo manufactures using out of spec settings; thus pushing the intel chips way harder than they can handle which is causing degradation/failure. For average ppl this is a serious issue cuz most don't tune their pc's they just buy and use which imo is fair they shouldn't have to. The question is who is to blame? Intel or the mobo manufacturers? I'm leaning towards mobo bc Intel provided their specs but they were not used or enforced by default.
The thing that is bad is that we have only 8 performances core and like 12 efficient, it would be smart to change that and put 12 P-core and 8 E-core
They could but you would need a mini split a/c dedicated to cooling the cpu lol
I don't know how good the margins will be that way, since pcores take up way more diespace compared to ecores
Or make enthusiast models without the useless Atom cores at all and replace them with real cores.
are you crazy? 8 cores is all you need, 8 cores is the new 4 cores
intel never changes, it is just dragged into the future
That's the least of your worries.
Regarding all this topic ,I’m curious :
can we safely exclude an error caused due to a widows update ?🤔
Specifically , all these years (4 years I think)my system had been perfectly stable (Ryzen 3700X) ,but recently(2-3 weeks ago) I had frequent bluescreens with a message which I can’t remember right now , but I had googled it and it was a memory related error(RAM , VRAM , related ).
I had 3-4 consequent bluescreens while doing very light work (youtube , office) until I realized that this will persist unless I do something.
Recently I had also noticed some change during PC-shutdown . While I was shutting-down my PC , I was noticing that couple of programs were still running , thus delaying the shut down for few seconds , one was usb related , the other was related with my nVIDIA GPU (GeForce GTX580 3GB) . Since this was also something I was not used to see in the past , I uninstalled and re-installed the GTX580 drivers( *the exact same drivers* ) and the BSOD hasn’t re-appeared since ,and neither the program-delay during the PC-shutdown.
So based on these , and since my PC-setup(before the BSOD errors) hadn’t changed ,except those forced/automatic windows updates( *besides auto-windows updates this period I had also installed a license of office365 ,these were my only system changes* ) ,I started suspecting that perhaps during some windows update something changed about the *resource-management queue handled from windows* (I have windows 10) ,leading to such an issue…
And since this video is about system crashes/instability/memory errors , I thought to share my recent weird experience with unexpected crashes/instability/memory errors but my CPU isn’t an Intel one.
As I said my own conclusions for my own case is that some recent windows update caused changes related to how the system handles its resources or something like that ,but of course this is just my theoretical conclusion ,can’t verify it .
Wonder if this is whats wrong with my 13900HX Labtop im noticing out of box games are loading muxh slower then expected like Destiny 2 tales on average 1-2 mins to even prepare loading in my other systems 5950x 5800x3D as soon as i hit game icon it starts loading into game in about 5-10 seconds.
I have the 14900K and when I first built and installed everything I had just the ASUS optimized settings and no XMP and all went as normal. Once everything was installed, I then went into the BIOS and turned on XMP I and the problems started when installing shaders after an Nvidia driver update. When launching MW3 the PC would just lock up completely and had to force shut down the PC and turn it back on (on turning it back on I lost my Keyboard and sound card. Unplugging and plugging them back in fixed it and it was a pain to get shaders to install cause sometimes it would work and other times I had to go through the mess of PC Freezing up and power it on and restarting unplugging and plugging in keyboard and sound card). This happened every time I launched MW3 after a driver update and preloading shaders. I updated the BIOS and changed it to XMP II and it's been working fine since then and it's been about 2 months now. And I still have ASUS multi core enhancements set to auto and XMP II. Oh yeah, but before updating BIOS, once I did get the shaders installed when having issues the gameplay was fine, no issues at all until loading shaders.
SPECS for more context:
i9 14900K
ASUS Z790 DARK HERO
BeQuiet Dark Rock Elite air cooler
Corsair 64GB 6400MHz 2 sticks
ASUS STRIX RTX 4090
Creative Sound Blaster AE-7
BeQuiet Dark Power Pro 13 1300W PSU
BeQuiet 901 Case using vented front panel and 5 x 140mm BeQuiet Silent Wings 4 high speed fans.
Loading Shaders my CPU temps are around 85C and gameplay, the temps are between 60C and 70C sometimes I'll see it hit around 75C. I also get a cooler score in BIOS of 165 pts running the standard fan profile.
Replying to my own comment and a side note.
Dirty Power to the house: No one ever talks about the power going to their house and fluctuating current and what PSU their using or if they have a UPS.
The power to my condo is very stable at 120VAC and dips very seldomly to 115VAC and 100-amp service. I monitor it through my UPS display all the time. I'm using a Cyberpower 1500VA sign wave. Reason I bring this up is a friend of mine has the worst power going to his house. If he has the TV on and his 2 computers running, it's fine until he turns on his microwave. Once he runs the microwave all his lights dim, and his UPS kicks on and he also has 100-amp service. He had to run another 100-amp line to his house to fix the issue. Another friend that lives a few miles away has a similar problem where if the air con is running, he can't play games on his PC or he will trip the breaker, and this is just normal neighborhoods outside a midwest city in the suburbs in ah-murica.
Sounds more like a RAM issue, than CPU. Your CPU sounds stable.
I think Intel will un-blacklist you down the line. Gamers Nexus has had many companies blacklist them for rightfully criticizing products, and usually within a year they are fine again.
who cares. they all act like pouting chlidren. intel nvidia. they are all the same
are the 600 skus affected or only the highest end ?
Hey all, bit concerned with all this but i've only really seen talk about the 13900k/14900k. I haven't had a problem with my 13700k running on a MSI Tomahawk z790 DDR5. But what would be the Intel defaults I should be looking for to compare with what the motherboard has set it to?
Is there a resource out there that can tell me what my 13600k voltages SHOULD be at? I haven't noticed any issues yet, so I'd like to get ahead of that. Also, love the Snake Man theme. Nice touch.
MM3 for life. As for the 13600k just make sure no core enhancements are on in the bios and make sure the unlimited power options are disabled.
"Is there a resource out there that can tell me what my 13600k voltages SHOULD be at? "
The intel specs, or the intel tools to read the V/F curve.
Lets say it like this: if you got a Z-board than you can be glad if they don't overvolt the CPU by more than 100mV out of the box (with spikes going far beyond that).
@@ABaumstumpf I have an MSI z690 board and the AsRock z790 Nova. Both boards have an option in bios that says "enforce intel limits' and setting that to enabled takes care of all of the settings. Voltage , power limits and so on. For my two boards it works anyway. Check your bios for something like that and enable it. Hope this helps!
@@TheJamesKF " Voltage , power limits and so on. "
No, They specifically ONLY deal with the power-limits.
those settings do not take care of following the voltage specifications. All they do is change the turbo-behaviour - aka tau, PL2/3 etc. They do NOT however make the board follow all the rest of the specs. And the problem is not the power but the voltage, so it really doesnt do much.
@@ABaumstumpf Oof. Good to know! I only have a couple of 12600k CPUs on the boards presently and all the reports seem to be coming in on 13th and 14th gen i9s and some i7s here and there. I can say that once the this bios setting was locked in they perform about the same and are much cooler. Again only 12ht gen i5s so.. Thanks for the heads up.
Had before i9 10900K and it was MOST fastest CPU in Windows - all worked flawlessly, really ❤, then i upgraded (or downgraded) to i7 12700 and i lost that flawless in Windows... Yes, games run A LITTLE better, but not Windows 😢... Dont know, what Intel are doing, but with B760 and i5 13500 i got super experience too ❤, its best price/performance intel processor for gaming (like AMD Ryzen 5 7600/X) ❤
I had issues, random freezing, with my Ryzen 2600X paired with a X470 Strix-F, in the end it was related to the setting "Power Idle", by using Typical it worked perfectly.
@Tech Yes City, you might be onto something here about the input thing. Both our Intel 14900K and 12900K based systems have been crashing games when there is lots of input. We have noticed that when we had multiplayer button mashing games with multiple controllers when we have friends or kids over, or when we play flight sims with multiple devices (Stick/Yaw, Throttle, Pedals, other accessories and we'd hit buttons on multiple devices at once they would crash. I can now reliably reproduce this, just connect multiple input devices, fire a game that recognizes them all and mash buttons on all devices at once. That will crash games, especially Unreal Engine ones, it seems. Sometimes, albeit rarely, games that support on the fly switching between input devices will crash even with just one controller and keyboard/mouse if you mash buttons/keys on all.
The 10850K is rock solid here too, not the fastest but at GPU bound settings or CPU bound settings its right behind the new stuff still (Gaming) with decently fast DDR4 3800-4200+ low latency RAM for CPU bound games, it stretches its legs pretty well.
It's the last of a generation unfortunately :(, I will be very hesitant going forward to move off this CPU.
So 11th gen put IO outside chip?
@@YudaHnK I didn't enquire about 11th gen when I was in Taiwan, I did put it through a heap of testing, and I think it's fine.
@@YudaHnK 11th Gen has a weaker IMC then generations prior (Memory Controller) and does not do proper fast DDR4 (in GEAR1 modes like all generations previously) it relies on Gear 2 modes (Halving Memory Controller speed) to handle Faster speeds, but that incurs a latency penalty on its own.. it's not ideal, but it is what it is.
The IO, not so sure, I only speak for 11th gen IMC.
same here. 10850K + Gskill 4266mhz CL19-19-19-39 memory
For my 13900k and 14900k I have done the following: MCE off, PL1 and PL2 limit to 225, limit P-core boost to 5.5 GHz and E-core boost to 4.3GHz, and use balanced power profile in Windows (although I do disable core parking to keep system highly responsive). Oh and just XMP on the RAM. I didn’t change LLC value. I have set voltage offset at a modest -0.010v. I have disabled the C6&C7 C states and EIST. Lastly I have locked AVX at 0 offset. I have tested on P95, CB R23 and CB R15. All great and in a mid 20 degree room, no workload exceeds 80c on package or cores. Very happy and benchmarks are very close to where they were before taming these beasts.
Update: I have now undervolted to -0.015v and set the Core limit to 300 Amps. Performance is still good.
i already asked this to techwando, but do you think the RAM / IMC stability also affect this, buildzoid has ranted about the RAM stability on the current Intel plaform for a while
If your CPU has been cooking at high temps and high voltages it could cook the IMC if you have high speed ram and high IMC voltages in bios. Unstable cores will usually black screen or bsod. Unstable IMC will freeze and spew memory errors.
I had something similar recently with my ryzen 5800x and crashes. I noticed sometimes my drives werent being read quickly enough. I got power errors in logs. I was able to isolate it to either the cpu, the power supply, or the motherboard. I am pretty sure the gigabyte b550 aorus pro v1 has something wrong with its chipset after going to the highest bios. It just became one of those "crash randomly once a month" sort of issues. A mobo swap fixed all the issues but it was really hard to tell what the actual source was because all the evidence pointed at different things.
My most recent build, I took your advice B and built with 10th gen (I7 10700K), and could not be happier. Love the work you do, and thank you for it!
I switched from a 12700K to an 8700G. I delided mine, removed the thermal paste and replaced it with liquid metal. I am running at 5.5ghz @ 1.25v on a 120m AIO and doesnt go above 82C in R23. I know thats going to sound crazy to some people but the 8700G is a monolithic architecture, and has been amazingly stable and gets amazing allcore performance. Gaming performance is amazing too, getting an average of 217 FPS in warzone 1440p as well. If AMD would release another monolithic design but have the same amount of cache as the regular 7000 series it would be the best CPU made, for gaming at least. Chiplet designs can be great, but AMD put an 8core cpu with the best igpu on the planet, on a die thats only a tad bigger than the Ryzen I/O die..
82 c on a liquid cooler? that is boiling water, that solution is not working
8 core over locked on 120mm water cooler which is lower performance than some budget 30usd air coolers ? Not too bad
You switched from an i7 12700k to an Apu no less the horribly overpriced R7 8700g because best igpu? This has to be the biggest facepalm ive done. 😂
@@MarcABrown-tt1fp performance should be better , power consumption lower and upgrade path waay better so maybe not as bad , but you are right that 8700G is waay overpriced and i would rather chose ryzen 7 7700
lmao 8700g is trash
Work got me a new 12th gen Intel machine for CAM work late last year. I notice the mouse will freeze for 2-3 seconds every few minutes. I wonder if this is related.
I am having some stability problems using virtualization and 12th gen cpu. Old 10850k worked fine. Have to look into this. Thanks for video!
I've had a i7 12gen cpu in a box for 1.5y and haven't upgraded from my Ryzen 9 3900x ... Now I think I'll just sell this thing.
Thanks Bryan
Why, If you have no problem? So far it seems to be too much amperage and power pushed by non default intel settings on 13th and 14th gen high core count CPU's.
@IceWarrior341 lol, 10gen is a great buy now and investment. Can't believe AMD really pushed intel this far
@Greez1337 you mean if I overclock the 12 gen that's the problem, but if I leave it default I'll be good!? it's that the point of having the k model of the cpu?
my i9 12900k has been running realy well since 2021, but i have always been lucky with cpu`s some how
@astrayamatu have you used it with massive inputs, fighting games, editing, I mean pushed it? Also, did you overclock it?
Traded in my 13900k for 7950x3d. Had no idea how poorly my system was running. Love that Microcenter warranty.
Well, you can't do that without also trading your motherboard.
@@IceWarrior341 Microcenter offers a 2 or 3 yr replacement warranty at purchase. Buy it on both chip and board. Buy it on everything you buy at Microcenter.
@@brulaapgaapmeester8052 If you purchase the warranty on both items, you can exchange them within the term of the warranty. Obviously you have to buy the warranty on both items. If you purchased them as a package, you exchange them as a package. They credit you the purchase price and you pick what you want.
They offer you a replacement warranty at the time of purchase. 2 or 3 yrs.
@@IceWarrior341 Really? You went to the store within the return period and they didn't let you? That seems very unusual. I've been buy all my PC parts from my local MC for many years now, they've let me return no problem, even open box items and even past the return window for store credit. I always get their 2 year protection plans though, they guarantee a replacement or exchange it for something more expensive pay the difference.
I did it with my 7800X 3D lol after that whole over volting fiasco I just went and told them I wanted a replacement and they gave me a new one. Same with my GPU's I always get a 2 year protection plan I think its worth it but anyway best way to get in contact with them is go ot their site and open a help ticket. someone will get to you real fast in chat. They dont list their store phone number anymore and I agree that is very frustrating.
Very interesting!, I realized a lot watching this video!, it brings everything together for me understanding performance tweaked with Quality!,✨✨✨
Thanks for infos!
This is worse than 14+++++++ nm 😂
yes, that problem only made cpus slower, not return under warranty, intel is in trouble again
Since it's the "K" sku CPUs that seem to be having all the trouble, it's likely 1) they are running too hot/clocked too high or 2) people are actually crazy enough to overclock these CPUs that are already too hot/clocked too high.
I've built thousands of PCs and sold them in my lifetime and I can tell you that anything that REQUIRES water cooling is already running too hot/clocked too high. Just avoid those.
Great explanations. Was tearing my hair out for a week trying to figure out what was wrong with my PC 2 months back. Intel is really dragging their feet on the RMA processes right now, they're probably incredibly over loaded. Glad to hear we're both still riding out our old 10850K's lol
Had no troubles with 12900K/13900KF and have 14900KS arriving this week. I wonder if I will see any with the KS?
Speaks words if someone speaks the truth and get blicket and ignored by intel for that
I can only imagine they're pushing these CPUs so hard so their metrics look closer to AMD's. Meanwhile, my 7800X3D is chillin' at max performance.
what chilling? AM5 platform has usb issues, fTPM issues, long boot times, and what not. The platform is not plug and play
@@SahajPS Yeah heard some crazy horror stories, however I thought my AliExpress AM5 build was going to have issues, no issues so far!
@@SahajPS I can't speak to those. My boot times are perfectly normal, no fTPM issues, no USB issues.
@@SahajPS just plugged and play the cheapest b650m Asrock Hdv/M2 with 7800x3D. Zero issues. 16 seconds boot times, USB works etc.
@@SahajPShavent had any issues tbh
I’m doing research on all my PC parts for my first PC build. I want to go with an i5 13600k and pair it with 4070 TI Super and either 4K or 1440p monitor.
So would I have to underclock or undervolt the CPU in BIOS just in case?
Underclock, No. The voltage may still be an issue.
Undervolt, Yes. You really should.
Personally, I've been using custom built PCs for a long time and if I am not overclocking my CPU, then I'm undervolting it. If you get a good chip with good Silicon quality then you can undervolt it quite far. Make sure the Load Line Calibration is in check too.
Other than that, Intel's processors are mostly nice and I only see the latency issues when I'm running folding at home. I like AMD a bit better, but only because the longevity of their AM5 platform is difficult to ignore.
If you can wait for the new intel Core Ultra 200 and AMD Ryzen 9000 series, i would do that as we are just about half way to a new launch or paper launch of the products with a in stock launch sometime in September/Oct. 2024
@@m8x425 If it's MSI you can just use the "CPU lite load" setting which is their "easy undervolting" setting. The latest MSI bios actually undervolts the CPU a little, compared to the BIOS from last year with BIOS defaults for "tower air cooler" my 13600k now pulls 170w with Cinebench 23 vs 220w with the older bios with stock turbo clocks on all cores running.
I run my 13600k 5.6ghz at 1.26v no issues since launch.
you shouldn't really face a problem with the 13600K, maybe dont overclock too much? undervolting could help but its not that necessary on i5s
I'm about to learn graphic design, that mouse cursor lagging issues really scares me, does this also happen to AMD processor? I'm planning to buy a laptop
I’ve been fighting with an i9-12900k that would freeze up constantly and make Microsoft Excel and Word basically unusable. I gave up on it and installed Linux Mint and it has been running flawlessly ever since. I almost wonder if it’s a Windows kernel issue…
Just like it was with E-cores and Threadripper's chiplets. Linux 4 life!
It's still a cpu issue, it's just that Linux is a much much better kernel than Windows
my 14700 runs intentionally at 5ghz, i just play games max. 54 celsius (air cooled) no issues here
So it has to slow down to be stable. Interesting.
@@devinfraserashpole4753 since is not a K one it will be fine... i was looking for the 14600 to replace my 12400 eventually cause it has much more cache so it actually performs way better in games but you cant find that i nfact you cant even fin the 13600... hard chips to find and the 500s are not worthy at all since are just renamed alder lakes...
@@nicane-9966 I'd just sell the stuff and save up for an AMD. It's worth it.
@@devinfraserashpole4753AMD has much more issues in the past, they are no drop better, usuall, Intel works much better
Speaking of faulty DIMM slots, I had a motherboard back in the early 2010s which had dry joints on some of the pins on one of the slots. That slot didn't work, so the PC was practically limited to running 2 sticks at a time. I didn't fancy my soldering skills to fix the slot, and I didn't realise that was the problem since I only needed 2 slots for the life of the PC. After finding stability with the other 2 slots, I didn't think about it again, only to see the dry joints when I disassembled the PC some years later.
I have 13900K and I have been experiencing BSODs like crazy (1-2 a day) since November. It's really frustrating. I have gone back and forth with tech support for awhile, and they are going to install a new CPU soon. Apparently it's only a small percentage of these CPUs that have issues. By your video, though, it sounds more prevalent? Thoughts?
Because they are source of enormous heat.
I remember everyone telling me how bad the FX 8350 was. I'm STILL using my 8350, all clocks set to 4.2GHz, stock cooler, boost clocks disabled as that actually lifts the voltage higher. It tops at 1.38v and has been going strong for years without issue. 69C is the top rated temp for FX CPUs. Yet they were lambasted for running "hot." They use less power than current Intel CPUs. They don't fail or degrade over time. It's just amazing that this awful CPU of the past still works fine. It's really snappy. I guess it's old school and definitely not Zen fast, or previous gen Intel. Before they lost their minds. But a CPU should last 10+ years without degrading, unless it's insanely overclocked.
I have the fx 8320e and it still works great too, it may not be snappy but it is smooth
@@AzukiLim They're not as fast as Intel from the same era, but they seem to hold up better due to having 8 threads, when so many Intel alternatives were limited to 4. Single thread is not great, unfortunately. But I still get by with it.
Okay so I'm trying to build a virtual pc. I currently use 4 pc and 2 cell phones to play (I know) Raid Shadow Legends on among watch youtube, surf, etc. Running this many pcs makes it very hot in my room and pulls the same watts as an air conditioner. I was looking to maybe building a virtual pc and i can't afford Threadripper, any suggestions?
Bugger I was going to upgrade my PC this week! Not a huge fan of AMD. Would it be better to just upgrade my GPU. I have a i9 9900K with a AMD 6900XT? Any suggestions?
AMD FOR THE WIN
Built a 7900x3d/7900xt been having constant crashing and blue screens. Ive spent days troubleshooting at this point im ready to send it all back but newegg is a hastle to deal with...
@@mitchcolangelo550 it's likely your bios or ram, I've had multiple systems which are bullet proof, you likely have something faulty, intel has a design flaw
@@Lucatoni22 i updated bios tobthe latest. Gigabye x670 motherboard. Ive heard some people fix it by using and older bios. Ive tried different ram configs too
@@Lucatoni22 I also had multiple AMD systems fail on me over the years. Never went back to ryzen. Maybe with the switch away from AM4 it has gotten better. I will need to try again.....
@@interceptor001 check out overclockers UK times have changed since faildozzer
As someone who has been considering getting a new PC with an intel CPU this news is rather concerning. Does anyone know if possibly limiting the power use of these CPUS would be of use in helping with the problems?
y0 King, u rocking, u truly are a man of the people. I'm still on a 9900k 5.2ghz ht off lol since 2021.
is it only the K cpus??? bc I'm thinking of buying the F cpus of 12th and 13th Gen?? 🤔🤔 I don't play any of the games affected only NFS, GTA V, and FH5 variants and my builds are pretty mid-rangeish?? will I be fine??
I wonder if slotting these CPUs in B class boards with modest voltage delivery might help.
Upgrade your motherboard firmware to the latest then type i7 13700 or your CPU into google to download the intel latest driver. This fixed all games freezing my pc with fan spinning loud.
I power limited my i9-13900K since day one and have not found any issue related to instability when running stock, I turned off MCE in BIOS and power limited my chip to 300W maximum or 253W. I am guessing that when people run the chip without a power limit, that causes high voltage in regular use and degradation of the chip.
very interesting, i bought a 14900k 6 months ago and rarely use it for gaming, i do however also have the video memory issue... i rarely reboot my computer and after around 2 weeks uptime i suddenly get a lot of programs in windows crashing blaming i am out of both video memory and virtual memory, ive tried to find any drivers that would be causing a memory leak but have been unable to, no program that monitors the status of the machine can see any particular service or program using high volumes of memory yet windows is complaining about it. only way for me to solve it is to reboot and then all is fine until it isnt anymore again, ive yet to figure out what is causing this.
On my 12th i7 when I've tried the msi special oc profile i get instability blue screen. So ireverted to normal settings and became stable.
I have a 14700K that I got in late November. The only issue I've noticed so far (which happened immediately, not after some time) is that when running the balanced power plan, it gets tons of WHEA errors in event viewer and HWInfo. If I swap to high performance, they go away. Not sure what causes it, but I haven't noticed any ill effects so far. I did notice it's really hot though. I limited the PL1/2 to 253 from the ridiculous defaults and it does help, but it's still really hot when encoding video or anything else heavier. It will easily get up to 90C even with a Deepcool LT720 AIO and it throttled really fast when I tried a Prime95. The paste and all seems to be good so I'm not sure what else to do to cool it off. I don't know a ton about tweaking voltages, etc. on new hardware so I haven't messed with anything besides the PL limits.
motherboard?
@@kramnull8962 MSI Z790 Gaming Pro Wifi.
i5 13600k - I had frequent crashes in few games, particularly Horizon Zero Down and some others. Some crashed with error code and some with 'out of video memory' error. I limited my ICCMax to 260A and all problems went away. It was ok at 300 also but after few tests I noticed that 260A is enough to maintain max boost indefinitely. Btw I run slight OC 5.3ghz p cores and 4.3ghz e cores.
I underlclocked my 13900k and it's been running great
13600K? thats new. It could be a defective model because from what it has been found the 13600K doesn't seem to be all that affected by the problem.
Some years ago maybe 7 or 8, you got me to buy a 4 core Xeon, I think E3-1240, I think its time for a change and I may go with a 10 gen, and Windows 11. Based on you recommendations again.
My brother you are the Micheal jordan of tech flipping and troubleshooting. Love the content. Im glad months ago when I got my 10th gen board I had 10850k in mind. The latency issue was scary but this is another beast. Cheers friend thx for content
Had similar issues to yours, but finally figured out (after 2-3 months) that it was wrong BIOS settings in a new MB. That is just crazy. This was a new motherboard from MSI--Z790 Ace. The tech scums refused to give me the correct BIOS settings for the i9-14900k. I could not believe it. I had to fix all issues within the BIOS. System runs stable and thrilled with it. Read an article online recently about these issues, and IBM explained that almost all of the motherboard makers have settings out of wack, for their CPU. I can attest to that with MSI.
Do you know it's nothing to do with power supply on the motherboards?
I have a 14900k, but I undervolt it. The VCore it consumes is alarming as h3ll. I've been overclocking since the Nehalem days and keeping the VCore below 1.35v for long term use has always been a rule of thumb. But these Raptor Lake CPU are always hitting an absurd number like 1.5v.
are 12th gen cpus also affected by the aforesaid issues(including entry level chips like 12400,12100 etc)?Or is it confined to 13th and 14th gen only?
Thanks to tech yes city for bringing these serious issues to light.I was seriously considering upgrading my old 9th gen setup to 13th/14th gen soon-now i am having second thoughts about going that route.
High clocked 13 and 14th gen
no they arent
only 13th and 14th gen i9s (and in rare cases i7s) are affected, and that too mostly those which have been highly overclocked(which surprise, causes instability)
but it same cases stock ones can also face it due to motherboards pushing too much wattage for no reason and intel not enforcing the standards properly
Got 10900k with 3600 CL17 RAM sticks. Is 4070 Ti Super suitable for this setup or will it bottleneck it too much?
It's fine. Assuming you're playing at 1440p
@@SahajPS What about 1080p?
Pentium III 1.13GHz. August 29, 2000
"In the latest in a series of embarrassing technical glitches, Intel pulled its fastest PC processor off the market yesterday after finding "marginalities" that caused it to crash under certain circumstances. The recall involves the 1.13-gigahertz version of the Pentium III, a chip that was announced on July 31."
I honestly think it could be memory & IMC related. One thing Intel has going for it over team red, is memory speeds... and most people buy decently clocked kits; throw them in; enable XMP and expect it to simply work. I've found with my 13900k that's it's definitely been more picky in relation to the various bios settings / adjustments compared to previous generations, when trying to hit higher memory speeds. I could have my kit running at 7200 - 7400 MT pretty much what most people would consider stable... it would pass memtest; work fine in games; daily use etc. I would occasionally get the odd latency/stutter issue. Now, if I run in that config in TestMem5, it would pass, but eventually show errors after several passes in the intensive configs. De-clocking to 7000MT and it's rock stable 24/7 in TM5.
Similarly, I've found that if the contact pressure on the CPU isn't correct in the socket - even using my contact frame - the CPU seems to work fine... but would have latency issues (eg. delayed opening of applications; stutters etc.). Re-tightening the contact frame (even what may be considered slightly firmer than what is suggested) fixes all the issues. No hitches; no latency; rock stable performance; cool CPU (eg. 80-85C full load in CB R23 with a 280mm AIO; 37-38k points. PL's marginally above Intel's, set at a modest 288W). This suggests to me again it's a memory problem / IMC - it's well known that inadequately seated CPU's can cause issues with memory channels.
I'm not entirely convinced it's an IO thing - otherwise you'd expect it to affect nearly ALL 13700k/14700k/13900k/14900k etc. If people are RMAing these CPU's and it's magically fixing it... then I don't think that's the case. What is possible, is that the new CPU is actually just having better contact in the socket. Could this be an issue with the IHS design? who knows. Maybe it's a packaging issue on some batches of CPU's, with how the IHS is mounting (ie. force distribution in the socket / board bending). It's been well proven that contact frames *can* improve performance when *installed correctly* - perhaps the LGA1700 socket design and board flex issue is bigger than anticipated, and causing issues outside of just affecting CPU thermals.
Maybe. The IMC in the 13th and 14th have been to cause issues
I'm wondering if that's what's causing some programs to spit out an out-of-memory error. (The socket contact)
I am using a I7-14700KF and so far no issues. Bought it at release. It's about 5 months old now. What i did do is lowering the the max powerlimit out of the box. My Asus has like 4k watts wich is insane. Now it's set at 253 watts. And i also lowered the vcore with 0.065v in order to have less heat. Been working fine sofar in gaming without issues. But you need a very good AIO and thermalpaste in order to tame the beast. I would have loved to see the power usage a lot less. However only the 7800X3D uses really a lot less power. Other high end AMD chips like the 7950X use about the same power in game.
But if there would be an issue with the architecture i do believe we should get a refund and discount as soon they release a new chip that is solid again.
I actually only had these game issues on my 13900ks, I switched back to my 12900ks and don't have the issues. I know in your video you lumped 12/13/14th gen together but most of the reports I've seen show 13/14th gen as well. Not really sure why or what the difference is to be honest
In december 2022 i bough a i5 13600k and everything seems to be fine so far. I mosty game, browse the web, watch movies and use Spreadsheets. I dont use any video editing. I use audacity and Reaper for audio productivity though. I never overclock my gears.
"They don't make ém like they used to." now include every PC component ranging from cases to CPU's. CPU's we're the last to fall, a shame.