Why I don't like GARDZ!!!!
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- čas přidán 5. 05. 2021
- Fool me once, shame on you! Fool me twice.... shame on me!!! I tried this product and it failed again!!! Sometimes good marketing is just that....good marketing :(
Patreon: www.patreon.com/user?u=109961... - Jak na to + styl
I used this Gardz for 25 years I have never had a problem with it. All my guys love it. Am going on 38 years in my painting company. After we put it on and it dries we lightly sand the area and mud over it. We put a fan on it and in two hours we are good to go.
I envy your ability to read that tiny print on the can without eyeglasses.
Not only tiny print, but they use a condensed font, too! I don't wear glasses (yet), but I am having a harder time reading small print. What I will do is take a pic of it with my cell phone and then pinch-zoom the picture to blow it up.
Ahaha, yeah.
i was just thinking that…too funny
Isn't Youth wonderful 😊
I go to home depot website and download PDF. Otherwise I cant see
I recently used this stuff to seal up some bare gypsum before first coat and was very happy with the results. I put it on pretty thick (like a coat and half actually) and let it cure for a whole day, then used 90 minute mud on top. It was my first significant drywall repair after watching SO MANY of your videos and I couldn't be happier with how it turned out. Although I totally had a can of the shellac product you recommended handy just in case!
Shellac is perfect to hold back water stains, but Gardz is the ticket to make a sound surface to your substrate. 40 + years Finishing and painting. I give Gardz a thumbs up, as it does what its supposed to do. Dont be shy with it.
Never used GUARDZ, only use Zin's Shellac primer because I learned it from you three months ago when I first began watching your videos which were prompted by my first home project. Had a lot of moments of frustration on that project but now I am honing mu skills. Working on hallway and bedroom. Ben your videos are super helpful. Thank you!
I just did badly torn drywall on 2 walls with gardz.. Worked good everywhere except 2 spots 6 inches round on 1 wall and 1 12 inch spot on the other.Cleaned them up and used the shellac VC recommended and it worked even better. Thank goodness i watch this channel or I would be scratching my head for answers to fix these frustrating walls
You don't know how good it feels to see those bubbles coming through at 6:05... It's not just meeeeeee!!!!!!
Lol
I’m glad you did this video. I have had very bad experiences with Gardz, and I’m happy to know it wasn’t just my poor application. I have waited more than 48 hours for Gardz to dry a couple of times, and it’s still bubbled up on me.
Well I'm a little late on half of the process. I cut everything out and then used Gardz. I actually drove farther to get the Gardz as they only had the shellac around here. It's been a day, and I was just about to fill with quickset but wasn't going to use tape. So you probably saved me there. Thanks for your videos, knowledge, and time.
I’ve used Gardz and love it. Not so much for torn drywall paper but to seal thin coats of compound as in a skim coat. I’ve had nothing but issues with delaminating when laying down the first coat of primer. Ever since I’ve started using Gardz the delaminating has been eliminated.
I use the shellac primer. Can't stand the smell, but it has never once failed me. Thanks again for the great content.
Smells like vodca to me! It is the best for water stains
that stuff is poison though... i have no doubt that when i get lung or stomach cancer in 10 or 20 years, that shit will be half responsible for it
@@notimportant3686 wear a mask!
gardz is pretty bad too! Get's my eyes watery in a way bin doesn't!
BIN... white pigmented shellac... I used it for repairs on plaster walls in my house before painting when we first moved in 32+ years ago, and it has NOT failed to hold up.
I am so glad that I saw this video because I was searching for that Gardz to use on a drywall repair. Luckily HD did not have any. I have learned so much from you about working with drywall. Thanks for all you share.
I like your glue solution too for holding down torn paper. I haven't tried it yet though. I had one bit of torn paper come up after I mudded it and had to cut more out but the second time it stayed down.
Yup. I squirmed when you were putting it on, but I had faith you knew what you were doing and it would turn out great!😜 I haven't had the best of luck with anything other than BIN, so that's what I always use too. I keep a pint and disposable brushes in the truck.
Geez, you make those patches look so good so quick!!😁
I too use the shellac based primer, my jobs are mostly small repairs and I find the spray can easy to have on hand, dries quicker and I never have a problem
I also use a spray shellac; of course, this was after watching Ben's video on nail pop repair. I only had the spray stuff on hand instead of the roll-on, but it's all good a year later. Now, only 7 ceilings left!
I went to the hardware store to get a can of shellac based primer and they were out of it. All they had was a spray can. My repair was pretty small, so it worked out better.
The spray works well but gets overspray on everything when I use it.
@@JT_70 I use a piece of cardboard or two to shield things. If I need more protection, I tape up some paper or plastic sheet.
In the old days😂we used to thin shellac on problem spots it is compatible with many different top coats even between lacquer and urethane just about anything your not sure of. .. great video Ben 🤠👍
thank you for showing what the blistering looks like. i (just a HOMEOWNER) have not done enough work on sufficiently damaged drywall to have seen them myself yet.
But i have a current job for which i am looking for your type of advice! I figured looking for advice beforehand might be better than looking at how to fix my "fix".
I've just recently discovered your channel. I very much appreciate the information your sharing.
I am a life long drywaller, and have been doing NC, remolding and repairs over the yrs. Gaurds has blistered on me, but I found that a LIGHT coat plus 3 hrs drying time usually works. Don't coat heavy and don't back roll over it, that's when it fails. Roman's rx35 seems better. However since way back when, a coat of good ol oil based kilz has been the most consistent quick fix. And yes I agree with shellac also, if you don't mind the buzz.
Thank you for the tip. Regarding Shellac are you talking about Zinssor Bin Shellac? I've used a lot of that lately and haven't noticed any odor-causing buzz? Maybe my brain cells are dead and don't notice it anymore! 😂
Thanks for sharing your experiences
I've been slowly renovating a 110 year old row home. The walls between the houses are plaster over masonry. The rest are lath and plaster. After removing the wallpaper, I soaked the remaining paper backing and glue with hot water and removed it with a scraper. I then used a 1/4" roller to roll on a somewhat thin coat of Gardz on the walls to seal the plaster a whatever glue residue remained. I waited at least a full day or two before skim coating with all purpose (The wait time wasn't intentional; just how it worked out). I had zero issues with it and I noticed before skimming that it looked like it created a hard shell. I have not used it on drywall yet. I originally wanted to use a shellac primer but this was in Dec/Jan and I obviously couldn't open windows for ventilation, so I opted for the Gardz.
I use the Zinsser shellac based Bin sealer before mud gets near any drywall repairs, have never had a problem with bubbling. The water based products seldom live up to the claims on the can sadly. Great channel, thanks for all the tips! From NZ
Thanks for info. It was recommended by another CZcamsr, but I couldn't find it anywhere so I started to use other options. I think I will go with what you did. Thanks for the heads up!
I had the same issue when using it in my parents kitchen that had wallpaper removed. Almost seems like it absorbed the moisture in the mud and went right to the paper.
Ah, love the Zinsser BIN shellac-based! Spray or brush-works great!
Yes, this is what I use for my business and it hasn't failed me yet!
Hard to breathe with that stuff. It works great for sealing cigarette smoke in.
I like the fails as much as the successes. Thanks for sharing these little gems.
Glad you told me to feather that like button. I have a habit on forgetting too 😀
I sand the area with a fine sanding sponge using light pressure. It rolls up the layers of paper that tear off at the edge. Followed up by oil-based primer. I have few problems in my later stages and seldom have to go back to correct the area.
I really like the green can RX-35. Goes on milky, dries clear and works awesome for torn paper. If you can get it in Canada it would be great to see your thoughts on it. Great vids! Keep up the good work.
I have used lots of Gardz, always had trouble with bubbles. Thanks for the product recommendation!
You should have watched the Kilted Guy Drywall on how to over drywall paper. He’s actually complimented you before in his videos!
I have been using Gardz to seal areas where I have used a lot of mud. I find that it keeps the dry mud from sucking up so much primer and paint that you have to do extra coats. I haven't had any bubbling problems over torn paper but perhaps it is because after putting down the skim coat I put on another coating of Gardz.
The Zinnsers shellac (dont know about Gardz) is expensive but amazing. I sealed a stained wood t&g ceiling so the stains and tanins don't bleed through my white paint. Worked like a charm.
I only use the white-pigmented shellac for repairs like that and on plaster walls. Usually slap on a second coat after 5 or ten minutes whether i’m spraying, brushing or rolling. A few minutes after the first coat, any loose paper edges tend to stand up. Just flatten them with your finger and they’ll stay stuck down.
Oh my gosh I love this stuff! I used this to put over old wallpaper glue paste I was just completely over removing. It worked great! I found out the hard way a little goes a LONNNG way
I see that this posted in May. In April, I finished using Gardz on a guest bath renovation where wallpaper removal (with steamer!) had damaged the drywall paper all over the place. I used Gardz and skim coated all four walls to repair as described in other videos. No trouble. Worked as designed. More than one coat was used given the damage before first skim coat was applied. Maybe I was just lucky, but it did its job well in my use. I am merely a DIY homeowner who educates himself as well as possible with tons of research here on youtube before I try something. I will share that I had to order the gallon of Gardz off of Amazon because the big-box stores did not carry it, and neither did the one brand-name paint store that I called. So maybe that is a significant data point. I also found that the odor from Gardz irritated my nasal passages despite open window in the bathroom. The room volume of the guest bath is pretty small and may have been a contributing factor.
Oil based spray primer works very well in this situation , I have used this for years. I have worked in commercial construction for years doing fit- outs. In these types of jobs the damage caused by cove base removal leaves paper damage.I spray these areas, allow drying time and finish. Works every time.
When you repaired this did you use the bin shellac before mudding and using the stabilizer strip? I'm repairing some torn paper in the back wall of built-in shelving and want to make sure I do it right. Your videos are always so helpful. Thank you!
I have done a ton of wallpaper removal where there has been torn paper on drywall and to be completely honest the easiest way i have ever fixed it was to paint it with a coat of semi gloss paint , whatever i had on hand then if there were any bubbles cut them out , recoat and when its dry skim coat it with joint compound and move on to the painting process. I painted for a company for 8 years and we worked in alot of top notch holmes and our paint jobs were top notch as well. We were highly sought after as painters , so there are ways around that are less expensive.... Love your channel though, showing me alot of different techniques that i didnt know on drywall. Thanks again from the yankee in new york lol....
Perfect timing. Was going to use something like this on my garage door. Paint is starting to peel. Thanks.
"Shellac is a resin secreted by the female lac bug on trees in the forests of India and Thailand." - From wikipedia. It's amazing that one of the best painting/drywall products is naturally created, and by bugs no less. It's another story about the solvents that are used to dissolve it so we can apply it.
Lol same goes for rubber. And somehow they become car tires...
Solvent is alcohol. It’s relatively benign.
@@jeffreylonigro1382 There's all kinds of solvents. Butane and it's cousins have other stuff besides alcohol in them. Pentane being one I think that's pretty nasty
everclear... the drinking stuff... well, if you're still in college, the drinking stuff.
there are synthetic products that people call shellac. But I agree shellac is a neat product.
I just painted and compounded over torn wallpaper. Glad I spent the extra and got the BIN primer.
I used the Zinsser Bin shellac with success. However, I have been finding the it is not holding back the tannin bleeding and knots like it did in the 1990’s and early 2000’s. It seems the formula has changed. Have you found that to be the case? Also, Zinsser shellac products are very difficult to come by these days here in Maine possibly due to the pandemic. So I am now on a hunt for another primer that might have to replace Bin. Great video! Thanks!
I’ve used Gardz successfully for many projects without any problems. I remove the whole blistered paper from the beginning though. When you read the label the product it sounds like it’s just Titebond 2 wood glue reduced with water. I let it dry for 2 hours and I’m ready to paint. I buy Gardz by the quart for repairs. I’m a DIY and have used 5 qts so far.
For your first mud coat on top of the Gardz what type of mud did you use and did you do your thing where you add glue to the mud mix?
I don't understand the shellac thing. Can you make another video about it?
I couldn't find Guardz when I went to buy some, so I bought the shellac based kind. I feel much better now about my choice. I'm coating all my walls and ceiling before painting or wallpapering and I feel good that the wallpaper won't damage the sheetrock.
I would have loved to seen what the can looked like for the shellac product.
I just finished my can of gardz. It was really helpful for fixing torn paper after baseboard removal and other problem areas. Never has problems. But I used it sparingly.
Digging the "feather that like button" it's a nice change from other content creators and yet gets the same job done!
Back in the '70s I knew a union carpenter who started his career as a painter in the '30s. He always had a round boar-bristle brush in the pocket of his overalls. He used that brush to clean the dust out of cracks, holes, etc. whenever patching drywall or painting. He taught me how to paint and that is a habit I picked up... Do you generally remove the dust between the carving out and filling steps? I'm wondering if that detail cleaning is edited out of the videos??? For example, at 5:22 the hole looks cleaner than it was at 5:04.
How I would have handled it? Simple, I'd curse and yell at the wall for the required minimum of 10 seconds, stare at it in an aggravated manner for about 30 seconds while deluding myself into thinking that I knew enough about the problem to ad hoc a solution, then search the Vancouver Carpenter channel for the answer.
When do you use fiber seal vs. just mudding over a sealed wall?
For blisters, is there a downside to cutting one edge of the blister, peeling it back, putting some mud behind it, and continuing?
I have done this a few times for small blisters. Not sure if anything became severely compromised or not
I used Gardz a few years ago after removing wall paper and scraping the glue down to seal before paint. It has been a few years and no spiderweb cracking in the topcoat yet!
Did you have to skim with mud at all? Or were you able to get it smooth after applying Gardz and sanding?
I used the Roman Pro 999, which is also water based, for torn drywall and was disappointed in the outcome. Like Vancouver Carpenter, I had to cut out sections that bubbled up after application of the primer and drywall compound and was very frustrated with the extra work.
I don't recall having these issues with Gardz, having used it for many years. The only thing I don't like about it is the three hour cure time... too much for smaller jobs.
I have had issues like this with the B.I.N shellac, so just the opposite of you Ben. Zinnser came out with a synthetic shellac, which seems to work on a lot of this kind of stuff and is ready to topcoat in 45min -1 hour. It is my 'go to' primer now. Thanks for the info though... Zinnser will have to look into it and remedy it now that the word is out from Vancouver Carpenter!
I hate farting about! Your videos have helped me immensely, Thank you!
It's great to have this kind of feedback! I always used oil-based Kilz or shellac and was considering trying GARDZ... I guess I'll stick with what I've been using.
Yea kilz is potent stuff but will stick to anything
Is the Kilz oil based Spray can stuff good, and do you use it often ? I've installed some sheets of drywall and torn a bit of paper here in there, so id like to do it right the first time. Any help would be much appreciated!
@@NuttedInYoMom Yes, I've used the "spray bomb" Kilz (usually the "original", not low odor) with good results. It might take two hits... remove your torn paper, hit the area with primer, let it dry, then come back and do any further sanding/ paper removal that may be needed, then re-hit w/ primer. Just make sure you have a good sealing coat on the area before you start hitting w/ joint compound. That way you should avoid the problems Ben was showing (bubbling paper, caused by the moisture of the GARDZ and/ or joint compound). BTW, Zinsser BIN is available in spray bomb also, though I've usually stuck with Kilz out of habit (and cost).
Did you sand the the damaged areas with some 80 grit before coating? Green horn I can tell your new at this.
I like Zinsser products but have never tried to use this one. I always just use the Fast Prime 2 for torn drywall paper etc, and use some heat and a fan to dry out quickly if I need to paint soon or same day
Yeah bought the Zinsser Bin as you recommended in another video recently and yes it dried in an hour and I painted directly afterwards with excellent results. Probably the only issue would be as least from Home depot in the U.S. is that you have to buy it by the gallon. Fool me once fool me twice... You know the ending...
Had the same problem. I did carve the blistered parts painted it one more time with zinser then coated with mud. Didnt get any bisters after but agree having to carve all the bad spots was a pain. But i am diy so i had enough time
Is there gonna be one original wall or ceiling in this house thats not skimmed?
In the last year I have learned not to use water-base primer. I tried because I hate the smell of the others but nothing you could do since water-base just don’t work.
I just stumbled across your channel but I've always just used the pink drydex spackling on any drywall repairs, I've never had any blistering on any holes or patches with exposed drywall - do you know why that is? Perhaps not enough of the paper was exposed or is the drydex spackling able to not blister without sealing? Thank you!
I used to work at a universities paint shop and we used gardz all the time to repair all the torn drywall at the end of the school year and we never had any of the issues you mentioned with it. I wonder if its a humidity issue where you live?
Gardz worked for me. Larger struggle was getting to a good paper layer. Was watching a video from That Kilted Guy where he covered drywall structure in detail. Had to get good lighting in and used my putty knife to tap everywhere, if there was give, kept scraping. I used Gardz, recoated, hot mudded, sanded, Gardz again, paint, recoat. So far so good. Bathroom wall.
I do have a question, why do pros not just patch the drywall? It would be way faster than the above, cut it out, put a piece in, mud + tape, sand, done. Is it due to the size of the job where patching would not be feasible given a certain amount of time? Thanks in Advance!
Last, from what I gathered, Draw-Tite Drywall Repair was #1, no argument, but low availability. So then it was Zinsser Gardz, then Kilz Klear. Roman Pro 999 Rx-35 and Zinsser BIN Shellac were basically a tie. People who used the Shellac such as yourself, swore by it but most of the discussion was around Gardz and Klear. Thanks for your videos!
I was 2 mins into the video and i was going to suggest shellac based. I love the stuff. Works great for priming stained oak cabinets.
The smell doesn't bother me and i am very sensitive to smells. The 3m 8577 is my go to for organic vapor
Thanks bud I will be looking into that
You nailed it! I used it on stained wood trim on a client's house and works great! Dries fast so recoating can be done more quickly than a final coat of the finished paint. It took me about 2 coats though to prevent any bleed-through.
Ben, Thanks so much for the heads up on Gardz I def use another product on my jobs. I can tell you how to speed them up too w a heat gun. Out in one day w a 4x8 sheet sometimes. Peeling Its double prime day. Hey not bad for a Sparky
I’ve seen you use the Zinnser 123 as a water based primer before. Curious why you chose to use Gardz instead for this project.
Pro-999 on any raw faces, can be used before and after mud. And I’ve gotten in the habit of applying a light coat of 1-2-3 primer prior to 2-3 topcoats of paint. Perfection every time.
I’ve always used the shellac based BIN. Easier to apply and dries fast
i have used gardz on many jobs in bathrooms and kitchens doing repairs and have never had an issue like you experienced. I usually put one coat of gardz on, let it dry for an a little till its tacky and then do another heavy coat, let it dry for a day and then coat it.
In what application is this stuff necessary, I've never sealed torn paper and always had good results just applying mud over it. I always peel all the loose edges back though
I used the Bin shellac primer in my entire house painting job and it completely peeled in both bathrooms and on the ceiling where the return air vent is but no where else. Any advice?
Same company peel stop or sure bond. Also love the fast prime 2 and use it for glue in the mudd for tapping to existing. But I've learned many and much from Ben.
Thanks for sharing.
I had to scrape a ceiling in a small (~9'x9') room down to the brown paper. Gave it a couple of coats of Gardz. Let it dry > 24 hours and then skim coated it (thanks for those vids) with premixed mud (dark and light green pails). My skim coating is not great, but never saw any bubbling. Now I am getting ready to skim coat my first wall section (~2.5'x8'). Was a bit hesitant to try Gardz again based on this vid, but it is on now - brown paper is sealed. Will skim coat in a while and see how it goes.
We always use Gardz after removing wallpaper, locking down damaged or missing drywall paper, eliminating different suction rates of muds before decorative finishes painting or applying American Clay & never had your problem. Shellac is an organic product from insects & subject to decay (mold food) in humid environments. On occasion we have used SW “fast dry primer” that does not use a slow dry mineral spirit vehicle in place of Gardz, but prefer Gardz.
The Zinsser Shellac is not insect based anymore
@@49er16 Zinsser Shellac & Traditional Zinsser Bin Primer are now & always have been natural lac in alcohol. The newer Zinsser synthetic Bin primer does not have natural lac product.
Why didn't you seal the exposed brown paper with the shellac-based Zinzner BIN primer before putting new mud on it?
I've used Gardz and never had a problem. But my DIY drywalling spans days and weeks, not hours... I've applied the Gardz and did the mudding over it the next day. It makes the brown torn paper facing of the drywall a little rough and locks down all the paper fibers so the paper doesn't swell and create blisters under the coating. I like it. But if you have a shellac method that works just as well or better in much less time, I would definitely switch to that. Make a video!
I have the same problem myself all the time what type shellac do you use I've used Kilz oil based primer for a lot of it it still gives me some bubbles here in there if you make it to read my comment could you please let me know what you normally use that helps stop from the bubbling
I had the same experience with pro 999. Now I’m going to have to cut all of this out and redo it. Thanks for the help.
Can you use titebond wood glue to cover bare paper?
The BIN 123 shellac-based primer I've seen you use, and I've used is a great product and I've never had any complaints with and have used it a lot on remodeling our home. Never tried Gardz and don't think I will after this. Seems it makes more work. I hate having to do rework like what you had to do.
Same experience: overall works with 8+ hours dry time. Can fail rarely.
My own preference as a limited experience DIYer: bite the bullet and replace the damaged portions of the drywall to the middle of the studs. I learned a couple of years ago that largish repairs are easier than smallish ones. Obviously, if it is just a spot your approach is perfect. I also think if I were more experienced I would follow your lead.
Of course, with your situation where virtually all the drywall areas were damaged at the top and bottom your approach is a lot less labor intensive.
Anyway, there was a discussion on That Kilted Guy about brown paper defects, and shellac rated high in everything except the fumes while drying... especially the fire hazard if the area was substantial. Depending on ventilation he could favor primer.
Finally, yesterday I was installing a thermostat - easy, right? - and encountered poor repairs even in that little project. In the end, the drywall (at the end of the hall where it probably took impacts from children) was a nightmare of inch-sized holes that were filled with blobs of spackle and slightly mudded over so it was a relief to replace the 3x3 foot area affected. Made it a lot easier to fish the wire in, too!
I've done 3 rooms and had no problems with the water-based version. I did give the wall a quick sand with my planex and 120 grit paper
Ben, im pretty sure youre the one i learned this from, but i just spray 3M Super 77 on the brown paper, let it sit for about 5 minutes and then coat it. i never get bubbles. Why did you decide to go away from the super 77?
I've had pretty good luck with gardz. I don't use it often but when I do I tend to go with 2 coats. I've also had pretty good results with 2 coats of rattle can spray paint (any color, lol).
I buy the 5L container of PVA glue. I dilute it with a small amount of water so it is absorbed in to the surface of the drywall and forms a strong bond. When dry I apply the the skim coat. It's inexpensive and goes a long way. How long ot takes to dry depends on the temperature of the room and how much you put on, but usually a hour will do.
Even when we use shellac to seal torn paper, I find myself doing the following steps:
1. Scrape, sand, and peel off any loose paper
2. Shellac area
3. Scrape, sand, and cut out any air pockets from paper letting loose
4. Shellac area
5. bed coat with quickset
6. Look for any air pockets in paper, cut out and spot as needed with quickset
7. spot all cut out areas again with quickset (along with any problem areas that may need straightening out)
8. Finish coat with regular mud
9. Sand and pray, you still may need to cut out and repair some areas
Same here. I love guards, use it on dozens of jobs with bad wallpaper removal.
Would you be able to put up a link to what you use please? Thank you :)
Zin BIN
I like & subscribe to your channel mostly because I see your professionalism, experience and excellence at work. You're the kind of person I look for, to give the customer the highest quality of finished work!
Can you provide a link to the shellac based sealer? thx
I used the Roman pro999 stuff, which is suppose to be similar to Gardz. I applied two coats to some badly damaged drywall and it held up ok, I tested two small walls and was getting blistering everywhere, so made the decision to Shellac primer everything, and thank god I did. Stuff is amazing, zero bubbles and the joint compound adhered great. Will always use Shellac from no on.
Yup when in a hurry I just use the spray can of the shellack primer. No brushes to clean or throw away etc etc... Even good on the Like Button 👍 to make sure it doesn’t bubble off.
I've had 5050 luck with guards. Something I've also done instead of using tape is put some caulking around the edge of blisters after cutting them out and then 5 minute mud and quick skim.. it sucks when blisters come at last stage
I hire a pro like you ,job done!
I thought I was doing something wrong. Had the exact problem as you. Thank you.