What primer stops PERMANENT MARKER BLEEDING????
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- čas přidán 19. 12. 2021
- Can't stop that marker from bleeding through? Neither could I. This video explains the problem and how to fix it!
Patreon: www.patreon.com/user?u=109961... - Jak na to + styl
Love the fact that you’re humble enough to be real with us. Not a lot of guys would do that. Thanks for the tips Ben.
My pleasure!
Thanks for taking us behind the scenes rather than just "covering up" the learning process. =)
My brother, Pete, and I have a rule…we test EVERY product and service we use before it gets into a customer’s home. We did tests several years ago of a pile of repair products we commonly use, such as caulk, wood hole fillers, paint…and yes…primers. We tested 8 primers primarily for bleed through against markers, paint, pine knots in trim, and drywall water leak stains. We were also testing for leveling that translates through to the top coat on doors and trim. We included testing the impact of application temperatures and moisture (drying time). The results surprised us when several well-known recommended primers sealer primers did little to block or hide stains and colors from bleeding through. You are correct, that matching the primer base to the stain really helps. One thing stood out as a significant factor…every one of the primers performed better when allowed to fully dry and cure 48 hours or more. Prime and paint in the same day allowed significant bleed-through where waiting 48 hours stopped bleed through. We know that everyone will have their go to favorites. We watched one local painter applying a 4th coat of primer trying to seal pine knots on old window trim…and then he kept trying to finish coat paint it 4-5 hours later. It was painful to witness. The overall winner BTW was Behr All-in-One multi-surface primer (really surprised us) which did the best job against stopping water leak stains, markers and pine knots from bleeding through, while still giving a good leveling through a sprayer for doors and trim. One coat…48-hours dried. It works.
what were your results for caulking?
@@nicholaserkelenz6431 We did tests for primarily two different items; shrinkage and adhesion. We were testing for two primary jobs, kitchen/bath seam sealers, and siding/window/trim seam sealants. There were several take-aways for us. Again, we know that everyone will have their own favorites and degree of satisfaction with any product. Part way through our weathering tests (1-year of direct exposure on 1/8” seams in different materials) we stopped using a few very popular (cheaper) caulks entirely, such as DAP Alex and Kwik Seal. They simply had too much shrinkage and surface cracks, and surprisingly poor long-termed (1+ year) adhesion compared to DAP DYNAFLEX in kitchen/baths and QUAD for siding and trim. One big take-away for us was to stop using tape and fingertips to do most seams in kitchens and baths in favor of tooling in 8-10 mm joints. It did take us some practice to get the hang of leaving clean edges and a clean bead, but it left a much more durable good-looking bead even after 2-4 years of normal wear. Oh…and we stopped using BIG Stretch latex after it completely washed out from a deck seam test that involved spraying it with low pressure water to simulate rain after 24-hours drying. We really wanted it to work well but it was a complete fail unless it had more drying time than we could realistically look for on job sites. Maybe it works really well in drier climates but here we seldom have a couple of days in a row without rain or morning condensation.
Behr is the best , that's why competitors have tried to sue them numerous times !
Knots come back a few months later. It might need several coats, before applying the finish paint.
Artist here--Shellac is dissolved in alcohol, which also dissolves permanent marker, so it makes sense that markers would bleed into shellac paint. A sharpie is waterproof, so a water-based paint should cover it without much bleeding. But water-soluble markers (like kids' Crayola-type washable markers) would be more of a problem with water-based paints.
Love your channel, it has helped a lot over the years. I also find myself watching your videos for stuff I'm not even doing, just for the sheer entertainment! Great videos! Thanks for putting in the time to film and put them out there for us!
Props for being honest, learning with us, and the shout out to the CZcamsr who helped as well!
all these years, and all that frustration, THANK YOU!!!
I’m so glad I watched this when it came out. Markers on the wall under the wallpaper from 1985 (they dated their work, with their names) was bleeding through. Fortunately I still had the right primer! Thanks Vancouver Carpenter!
Hi Guys, I didn't watch the video, but I was told a long time ago that a little silver spray paint (from rattle can) on the spot seals it off. Once it is dry, switch to your interior latex. Been using that trick lots since. Works to seal knots in wood too so they don't bleed through the paint over time.
that's oil based
Nice information. From the very beginning I never used shellac, just oil base. It even covers burn/smoke-damaged surfaces. Having said that, they have stain-covering water based primers.
I find that tile seems to hide marker quite well.....
🤣
From being an artist in mixed media I learned this with the same trial and error method. When I didn’t know what the marker was, oil based primer worked every time. Kilz just became my go to primer if there was any question. But it’s good to know any oil based paint will get the job done.
KILZ oil-based primer is my go-to for stain cover ups. Its consistency is between a paint and a glue and doesn't go down smooth easily, so I would be careful using it on flat walls, through textured walls hide the brush strokes. I would never use it on cabinets. It also adds just a touch of sheen when covered by paint. It stinks bad for about 12 hours, with a little smell remaining for 48. Note that in hot, humid climates you shouldn't use oil or shellac primer as a whole-wall primer (eg. after finishing drywall), because they work as a vapor barrier, and will allow condensation to build up on the other side of the wall when the house is air-conditioned, causing mold and rot. In that case you should use a water-based primer.
Dabbing stains with bleach or acetone on a rag can help remove/reduce the stain prior to priming.
Shellac based BIN has never failed me and is what I use if I'm wanting to "make sure". Thanks for finding something it doesn't work on and sharing so I don't have to learn the hard way!!
I always learn something new when watching your channel. Thanks for sharing.
My pleasure!
I think that some of your vids are slightly "messy" at times but i like that human aspect but having said that i really appreciate the fact that you don't want to put something out there unless you truely believe in it, good quality
Thanks for sharing this good advice!! Merry Christmas, and Happy Boxing Day!!
I am currently repainting kitchen cabinets. After sanding we used regular good quality primer and apparently pine soaks up everything you put on it. Giant tan blotches everywhere. Quick spray with the BIN and so far so good.
I'm glad I didn't have to struggle with marker!
I used Bin shellac as a primer for new pine trim work, i applied two coats allowing more than suggested dry time and have mixed results 😕. I’m talking multiple boards and ore than one job, it takes about 2 years for it to bleed through and find that if I lightly sand then apply again and paint seems to hold up then.
I use the bin shellac primer on all kinds of stuff since you introduced me to it in one of your previous videos. I never tried to hide with it yet, so thanks for updating things
Good points. When I was a Resurfacer, oil based primers such as Kilz or SW oil based spray cans saved me from having to fully strip surfaces, stopped bleed-throughs and stopped reactions (cooking) from a previous surface coat. Primers are worth every penny 😅
Merry Christmas to you and your family.
A very helpful video. And that definitely explains some of my issues.
I imagine, shellac (which is alcohol based) would work fine on water-based (paint/non-permanent) markers, water-based paint would work on alcohol-based (permanent/sharpie) markers, and oil would work on either.
Yes!!
Yes !!
Yeah…got match the solvents, or more accurately make sure they are opposite
You would think so but its not always the case that water soluble does not solve in alcohol. Actually most water based pigment will dissolve in alcohol. Some acrylic paint may actually blister when alcohol is put on it.
Best way to remove permanent marker is by covering it with the non permanent marker and wiping it all away. Works only good on smooth surfaces though.
No because alcohol based products cut through any water based product.
Ok, well… you’re my hero today!! -This stuff drives me nuts trying to figure it all out. I’ll just keep Cover Stain in my kit… always. Thanks
So glad I found this! I had some marker bleeding through oil based primer so I tried BIN. Sure enough, the marker still bled through. I am going to try water based primer which I hope will take care of it.
Thanks all the way from Oakbank, MB! Cheers!
This is so funny I had the same problem today and here you come with the answer thank you
Interesting video. Good work
Shellac base paint dries so nice since it uses alcohol, alcohol is very good at dissolving white board markers. You need a combination which does not dissolve in each other, but then you get bad bonding. Maybe if you heat the wall, it can dry fast enough to not allow the base layer to dissolve. Removing the marker with wipes+alcohol in the first place is maybe a good idea.
Good to know, thanks for sharing!
Zinnser Cover Stain has been my go-to primer for years! Works on damn near everything. I only use BIN for sealing knotholes or tannin bleed through.
You're as real as a 10 dollar bill. Great content!!
I'm a contractor. I always use oil based paint to cover stains especially water damage stains in ceilings. It's the only thing that works 100% of the time.
I'm no pro, but I've been using the cheapest primers all the time BUT recently, I've switched to Dunn Edwards Ultra Grip primer and wow, what a difference! It covers so well that in some cases, I didn't even apply regular paint over small repairs as it matched the original white really well. I used it to prime the ceiling of a bad bedroom and with just one coat of the primer, again, no ceiling paint was required! It even covered old water stains and some red stains of some sort from the previous owner.
The real reason I started using Dunn Edwards is that they opened a store that was closer than the two other big box stores. 😗
If there was ever a need for bloopers on your videos, this one would have been it! Hahaha. Good tips on the safety of oil and thanks for all of your homework!
Maybe someday you could do a video on what Paint/ primer-in-one means. I feel that there a lot of misconceptions about what "primer" means when it involves paint/ primer-in-one products. There are also some misconceptions about paint that claims to be a single coat application. Thanks for doing your informative videos! I also dig your sk8 channel.
Thank you sir!
When using Cover Stain, protect all other surfaces. It will bond with many things and it is a nightmare to clean up. I had the misfortune of a spray can of Cover Stain exploding over laminate flooring.
Too true! I had a gallon sitting in the side of my van when I got sideswiped by another truck, the gallon blew up over everything in my work van! :-( and I still have tools with paint on them from that..
Yes, oil Cover Stain is a very good product. Thanks Ben!
I've had success with Glidden Gripper. Its my go-to primer sealer. Works pn melamine cabs too.
Yes, your totally right about using oil. When in doubt, if you have 100% oil then just prime it and done.
Toluene is a common solvent for both permanent markers and lacquers. The toluene in the lacquer redisolves the marker pigment.
Great video. Very close explanation, but not *quite* there. It's primarily a question of whether the solvent in the ink were polar (like water) or non-polar (like xylene, alcohol, and ethanol). For example, if you have a pug that chewed up a ball point pen and was covered in red ink, you could carefully use rubbing alcohol and the ink would literally rinse right out. Don't ask how I know. :P
Shellac is usually ethanol based (polar) so it's terrible for covering *most* inks, but it works really really well for many other kinds of stains. Since water based latex paint is polar, it won't re-activate most inks and will cover them fine. Oil based primers tends to have a non-polar base but they're thick and not very conducive to bleeds. BTW, polar vs non-polar is also relevant to the surface you're painting - which is why it's really important to know what type of "plastic" you're painting.
If you have a room with a bunch of different types of writing, it's usually safest to go with the regular water based primer because even though there will be some bleed, the water based latex paint would have stopped the bleed anyway so it'll cover it just fine. Anytime I'm making a "dramatic" color change or want to ensure really good coverage of something, I always get the primer tinted to a shade lighter than the paint.
6:16 That was funny🤣🤣
The look on your face✌🏻
i think it also depends on the surfaces and most important the combination of the ink in the markers or paint etc. painters actualy use this marker trick to create sketch lines under paint so you can then hand paint waaay better as you can see the marker true the first few layers of paint, but this wont work on each surface and with each marker/ink. some markers have oils in them to make the ink or paint more glossy and some use hardeneroils for this or other things. so in general if you wanna coat harder colors that are not easy to coat or cover like many reds have this problem the solution most of the time is to get a colored primer. best choice 99% of the time is grey primer. you should actualy allways have two primers of the same brand and same color, one water and one synthetic. this prepares you for most color or marker bleeding, you can also apply a thin coat of finishing mud to cover it or you use a double primer or outside primer.
Thanks for Sharing. I used Bin 2 on a ceiling where hot oil had splashed to the ceiling and I was afraid that the oil would eventually bleed through. so far it has not. But, one thing that was really annoying was the smell. it stayed for 2 days and really was bad.
I've never had an issue with Kilz or similar. But I've also covered some type of marker with regular bargain-bin water based latex paint.
This video cracked me up mostly because I learned that your daughter should be going to art school! Oh I also learned how to cover up the art work but that was secondary.
I was convinced that BIN primer wasn't sealing water stains until I was told to apply 2 coats, worked great!
I've experienced this problem more than once , it's hard as a painter with 40 year's experience to explain to a home owner you have a problem , paint is not just paint ,
Bin shellac base works fine In a spray application, if you are going to be rolling it one then it can fail. I also have found that even though it looks like it is bleeding through bin, when it's dry the marker is stopped by it.
Ole, hd and blowes around me is phasing out bin primer. Also my favorite primer for drywall repairs.
Theres 2 kinds of markers, water based and alcohol based. When I see writing/drawing I take a rag with 99% alcohol and first test wipe the area. If it wipes off with alcohol its alcohol based and vice versa with water.
Just like testing what kind of preexisting paint, latex or oil based paint ? Take a rag and thinner wipe area if colour comes off, onto rag with thinner its oil.
Well if the markers alcohol based, you can first remove it with isopropanol then prime/paint or remove with soap and water if its a water based marker.
Shellac can be used over water based ink (like your window trim) and an acrylic primer sealer over alcohol based ink like behind door and basement. But putting Shellac over alcohol based ink will just reactivate the markers alcohol and remerge.
Remember Shellac and Lacquer both reActivate and merge when reapplied on top of each other which is the great part about them. A new coat over old coat just fixes back to normal/first time like new.
That is very interesting. I haven’t experimented a lot, but my dad was a chemical engineer and he told me to use silver paint to hide stuff. 🤷♀️ I think I remember using this method in a closet that had other paint and magic marker spots on the walls from things stored on the shelves.
this is true. certain pigments can cover some bleed throughs. Especially wood tannins bleeding through.
@Labwrath I prefer radium-based coatings so the room is illuminated 24/7.
@@thebigmacd Will also last 1600 years ;)
@@thebigmacd Gives you a lovely tan as well!
@@thebigmacd Hah!!
When we do graffiti cover ups, the solvents in oil base usually reactivated the paint and we just use bin primer with no issues
Thank you. You have been a fantastic assist for me. Please what oil based primer are you using please ?
What do you recomend ?
The Sherwin Williams stain block in a can works really well also no need for a brush
I wrote a message to my wife on the wall when we first painted our new house. Then I painted over it. With the same paint. And if you look down the hall with the light at the right angle you can still read what it says. The texture and thickness of the words is different than the rest of the paint on the wall.
For these kind of situations (markers on wall) I now use 1-2-3 in spray. It has much more opacity then if you would use a brush. And it dries super fast.
For 3:50 where marker is bleeding through shellack after two coats, it might disappear as soon as you put your final coat of paint (preferably two coats).
Too funny! I never thought about similar bases. I use b.i.n. on the reg for it's speed. But use 123 for just about everything else. Cover stain is my go to when shellac doesn't work, just can't stand the wait time (and smell) of it😛
My experience with Zinsser 1-2-3 (the water base one) is mainly using it for covering varnish wood that is switched to white acrylic paint. I have to put two coats of it
and then white paint. The funny part is that after 2 coats of 123 you still see a bit of varnish and you think «it’s going to show when i’ll put the paint»... but it doesn’t.
I have to say that to make sure all will be fine I usually put a second coat of paint. All this to say that maybe, maybe the bit of maker we see will be gone if you put
a coat of paint over it. Not only markers go through the paint but also makeup (had the experience doing a few bathroom walls). The best solution I now use is the
1-2-3 in a spray can. You have to shake well before applying but it gives a nice opaque white that will stop markers (and makeup). And I think it dries even faster than
the same in a can (the quart you are showing). Other tips, you can always try to wash away the marker traces before doing anything (magic eraser, etc), this small
step might help a lot. I would even try a product like «Goo Gone» or WD-40, even lighter fluid should work well.
Hi, thank you for this!, do you use the waterbased BIN, or did you use the oilbased?, we have two versions of it here in Sweden.
Take care and happy holidays !
When I was painting posts (for signs) I had sap bleed through with oil base paint. I had to double and sometimes triple coat the knots with a stain kill
This comes timely, you have no idea. 😉 Thanks!
One last thing, my daughter saw some of the Matrix when she was young. She then proceeded to draw Matrix writing on the walls in green marker. That was fun :)
Makes for a good story to tease her with at her wedding!
Informative 👍
I use oil base kilz, I dont know about oil base finish paint. For knots water base stain blocker works for a few months and then comes back. Wood knots need at least 2 coats of oil-based stain blocker.
Our chem remediation people use a multi-coat method with shellac, water-based hi hide primer, then shellac again before paint. This is the process they use to seal in drug residue including meth remnants as well as any staining on the walls. They seal then spray and back roll with amazing results. They prime over everything, drywall and trim then cut things in/apart with paint. Afterwords there is no smells and they get clean air tests. I too like oil paint but my guess is it just takes to long for them to use as well as having VOCs.
Thanks for this. Sometimes water based paint doesn't work on mastic. If you apply an oil based undercoat first and then the water based paint, it works fine.
Hi all
I am pro decorator with 20 years experience. The cheapest way to deal with marker bleeding is to get some 120 grade sand paper and simply rub the marker out then apply 1 coat of your wall paint to the rubbed area let dry then apply 1 coat to the whole wall.
I've had oil base primer fail when covering plywood on the inside walls of my shop. The blue stamp on the wood not only bled through it spread around.
If it bleeds through and is a small area just cover it with another layer of sheetrock.
It wont bleed through that.
Thanks it took an oil base primary to cover the wood stain I accidentally kicked over and splatter over my walls. Lesson learned stain my wood ceiling boards outside.
I have had latex ones work well, too. Brand is important as well as particular formulation. Read the label. Look at ratings. That tells more.
Acetone can often remove excess ink and reduce chance of bleed through, also.
When I was rebuilding my current house, in one of the bedrooms, there was some weird yellow face on one of the walls. I painted over it several times, but it kept bleeding through. I used 1-2-3 on it, bled through, tried a couple of different things, but finally ended up using a spray oil-based sealer (can't recall which one) and it finally worked. I was beginning to think the room was freakin haunted! LOL Still have no idea what kind of marker they used to draw it.
I didn't look through all the comments to see if the trick I've used was already mentioned, so I'll just go on. Try hairspray! Just like the kind my sister's used in the 1960's! It works!!! Crayons, permanent markers, nail polish, etc... Raised 5 kids, so "been there, done that".
Thanks for sharing your children's "artwork" :)
Thanks for sharing learning experiences and not just perfect how-to-do-it videos.
There's far more value in demonstrating the thought process of identifying a problem, working through the issues and implementing a solution, then there is in anecdotal fix-its. I see you take this opportunity a lot. A teacher who really teaches. I've subscribed and turned notifications on. 😁
On this video I thought you were going to clearly get WHY you were getting all the unexpected results covering up various markers. You almost had it, but in the end it just slipped by you, so your conclusion wasn't completely right and your discomfort with it is a little transparent.
It happens that I had to work though this when my daughter was about 3 years old. It must be something about that age!
Anyway, it was 33 years ago that she decided that the light cream fabric of the dining room chairs needed decoration and she proceeded to draw on the only nice pieces of furniture we owned with various markers; permanent, sharpies and dry erase among the 'safe' water based ones. Of course everything was dry and set by the time it was discovered. Fortunately I'd had a lot of chemistry courses.
Although on fabric where the inks needed to be removed, the crux of the issue, which you almost figured out by accident in this video is this:
What solvent carrier is used by the ink?
Inks are not much different than paints and stains. Inks and Paints are made of pigments, a carrier solvent and a binding agent that holds the pugment particles together. Stains and dye inks, are simply a case where the pigments are dissolved in the carrier solvent.
To extract the marker inks from the fabric I had to figure out which solvent was used for each type of marker, then apply it to re-wet the pigments so they could be drawn off the fabric by a process called osmosis.l. Water for some markers, alcohol, mineral spirits, or lacquer thinner for others. Osmosis is the same process you see when using a mop. The dirt is carried into the mop along with the water.
In your case, you want to prevent bleed through. If we more precisely define what is going on when bleed through happens it will help our understanding of which product to use and most importantly HOW and WHY it works.
In simple terms bleed through is when the new paint causes rewetting of the pigments and dissolves the binders in a way that the pigments are drawn up into the new paint by Osmosis. It's important to know the process to understand why it doesn't always happen or sometimes happens slowly over time instead of immediately.
There are several ways to stop this from happening that you saw but couldn't explain. The process is a bit more complicated though because although we want to avoid re-wetting that allows the ink pigments to migrate, we still need enough re-wetting of the binders to form good adhesion with the new paint layer. Otherwise your paint may not cause bleed through, it may simply peel off where the marker is!
.
The primary suggestion of your video ended up being to use a paint with a different solvent base. To use an oil based primer and paint.
But this is because you ran into big issues making this video, not because you know with certainty it will work. Things didn't work as expected and you were at a loss to explain why. You can't offer an explanation why an Oil based paint will work that's any different than the explanations you show don't prove anything.
Uncomfortable spot. I get it. Thank you again for posting anyway.
By the way, different base than what?
You have existing water based latex paint but what about the markers? What solvents do they use?
Even if the markers are water-based, when an oil based product is applied it is less likely to re-wet the pigments and dissolve the binders right? Or so you think. But that's not completely true! Remember, you can apply oil based paint over latex just fine but not latex over oil. Why? The solvents in oil based products are stronger than water. To work they in fact will re-wet water based binders tob the point you get good adhesion to an existing water based paint layer. This is also true of water based markers with some of those water based markers may be dye markers that are designed with very weak binders so they wash out of fabric even after they may have dried. Other markers are solvent based or oil based and may easily be re-wetted by the carrier solvents in an oil based paint.. In all these cases the bleed through risk is still there. Using an oil based paint is certainly no guarantee that you won't get bleed through! It's just your anecdotal experience.
There is one other factor in bleed through which wasn't explored, which is the ability of the pigments to migrate into the new paint layer. Without this phenomenon bleed through doesn't happen. What factor controls osmosis. Well, for paints that are of similar material it's primarily a function of something called osmolarity. Osmolarity gets into the physical properties of liquids that have things dissolved in them. It's related to density or what we may perceive as thickness or stickiness. It's defined more exactly the total concentration of dissolved solids in a liquid.
This is where those bleed through blocking products differ from regular paints. It's not just the carrier solvents that were dealing with here but also the binders, pigments and other chemical additives. Each have a roll in the behavior of the paint, it's ability to wet existing binders, form adhesion and block or at least not cause osmosis and resultant pigments drift. The osmolarity (dissolved partical concentration) of the mixture of binder, pigment and carrier has a huge roll to play in the results.
Maybe do a video on paint?
Near the end of your video you make an interesting comment about your surprise at how good a job regular latex paint did at covering the markers.until you tried to cover water based markers.
I think it's clear now why.
The paint is water based, and water is a much weaker solvent than anything else you've got. So all your solvent based markers did not bleed simply because water wasn't able to dissolve the solvent based binders in those markers. The ink does not budge!
But when that paint hit the water based markers it was easily able to dissolve the water based binders in those markers.
But something else happened, because to bleed through the pigments must be drawn into the new paint. Most likely because the density of the barely rewetted water based marker ink was much more concentrated then the paint.
So, I'd encourage you to try a latex based strain blocking paint rather then regular latex. I think you might be surprised. The ratios of dissolved solids (not just pigments) is designed to stop osmosis and may surprise you. And it's very much a less expensive experiment than the shellac which costs an unbelievable fortune these days.
In any case, my suggestion, and it's only that since it's not my profession just my experience, is when faced with ANY kind of contamination or damage on a wall surface. Before any attempt at using a stain blocker, bleed through blocker or mold/mildew prevention, killer or blockers you MUST
1) Precisely identify the contaminants.
2) Fully understand how it occurred.and if needed address repairs to mitigate reoccurance.
3) Evaluate damage for needed repairs and/or replacement rather than simple cosmetics.
4) ALWAYS CLEAN and REMOVE as much of the contamination as you can before effecting cosmetic repairs.
In this case. Washing the walls with TSP or other strong cleaners to remove markers. Perhaps followed by denatured alcohol to remove dry erase and permanent markers and then mineral spirits for any wax based marks would eliminate the need for a bleed through blocker. Even sanding, skim or re-tetexture being very careful not to get down to the drywall paper. Another wash with TSP and you've got clean freak walls to accept the new paint. This is better than extra paint coats to cover what might bleed through after the job is finished. YOU will be blamed!
I understand your discomfort at the start and end of this video. Not understanding why has a lot to do ryth that I suppose.
Hopefully my long comment will help.
I disagree with your conclusion though.
FWIW I suggest staying only with water based products on drywall. Once an oil based paint goes down you will be stuck never being able to match the other walls/rooms and going back to water based paint is not a simple option.
Have you tried covering ink pen with oil based paint. It's an oil based ink that never really dries. I suspect it might bleed through oil based paint. The shellac based blocker worked initially because it drys fast and has enough pigment density that with water based ink. However shellacs have an alcohol based solvent carrier which is VERY strong. So rewetting of any alcohol or lacquer or oil based permanent marker happens. It just skims over so fast and has a dry top we don't realize it's really still wet underneath. If you've used shellac with multiple coats on fine furniture you'd know it can take quite a long time for the finish to reach full hardness.
Can you expand on that? 😂😂😂😂👍
I ones painted a wall 4 times before I realized the neon colored marker drawings the kids had made would bleed thru all the time. So I asked a painter and he told me to to use silver colored spray can paint on the drawing parts. I really worked well. I belive it was oil based.
Ben the Vancouver painter, drywaller, and shred king.
Laquer works good on smoke for the smell also
Must be a solvent in the shellac that loosens the marker. When it dries it draws the ink back through. Prob similar to how isopropyl will remove certain things, but only acetone works for others.
I'm assuming why some paints work better than others to cover up certain types of stains is based on what the solvent is and what solvent the ink used.
marker is usual an alcohol base, same as the shellac. Oil based Kilz spray works pretty well
You mean "bullseye 123" at 5:24 I assume? Love that stuff, I put it on everything that I don't HAVE to use bin. Bin is a pain to clean up but it's great otherwise.
Do you have a video out there for replacing drywall that is adjacent to the ceiling? I'm wondering how it works in the corner where it butts up to the ceiling. Do you remove the old tape or just tape over it?
Awesome👍
I helped a friend paint a pre-made wooden staircase that had knots in the wood on the risers. We used a primer that was made for covering stains. I think we used Kilz or something like that. After a while, the knots started bleeding through the white paint that was on top of the primer and they got darker over time. I was thinking next time we paint it we'd have to dig out the knots and replace them with wood filler. Oil based primer sounds like a better plan.
Kilz is a brand, and they make oil primer…
@@ryane6719 kilz has water based and oil based primer. he must of used the water based one
@@jaredscott2617 they make a wide array of oil and solvent born undercoaters.. people misuse the brand name Kilz and don’t tell us what products they actually used.
As a painting contractor oil primer is king. I go in houses that have oil based enamel on their trim and sometimes walls and oil primer is what I like to use. Its nasty smelling and drys kind of slow but it adheres better than any shellac or water based primer. If your needing to kill smoke or pet smells (urine is a big one) shellac is great.
Can latex paint go over oil based primer?
Or is it like painting over old oil based paint walls with latex paint where you have to sand them first?
P.s. yoy were rite about wetting your brush first, i was wrong, u were correct
Try any acetone/nail polish remover to remove permanent marker. That's what we do in chemistry lab whenever we write with permanent marker
I havent tried i in this application myself, but if i was concerned about marker bleeding through, i would try to use alcohol to clean it off before using whatever primer i had. I dont think you would clean it all off with alcohol, but i think you would get alot of it off, and what stain remained would be so dried out that i dont think youd have issues. Just a theory, bet it i could do that and use water based kilz tho.
Thanks for going through all of that so we didn’t have to 😉
We always hit it once with a primer and then put a skim coat over it of fast setting. Colored pencil was always one of the worst ones to cover for some reason. Never tried oil!
Of course! Dry Erase markers use alcohol (Isopropanol, usually) as the solvent. By definition, shellac is alcohol based (though, usually methanol). The alcohol in the shellac re-activates the marker. I wish you had found a crayon (wax) to try with the oil-based primer. How well would that work? Would "oil" activate the crayon?
Bin 2 primer non shellac or any stain blocking paint, or regular oil primer seem to work best.
Interesting, if you would have asked me I would have shellac and oil would perform the same. You want oil primer not paint because water-based paint goes right over oil primer but never over oil paint. Thanks for testing for us.
I have shellac and water-base over sanded knots in a knee wall shelf and I still have brown oils(?) from the dry pine wood bleeding through. About ready to replace the shelves or router and fill the knots. I don't know.
Got a question. I removed a wall full of early 80's stick on tiles, as you know it removed the sheet rocks face paper, i put Zinsser Prime Coat2 on it not knowing i should have used Pro-999 Rx-35 to seal the fibers down. After priming i used joint compound to skim the wall but i noticed i have a good 15 small blisters. Can i sand down the mud to the primer then apply the Pro-999 to stop the blistering or should i just remove the 5x8 section of drywall and start over from new????
Applying thin layers of rattle can problock until it covers… or my method, eggshell paint as a paint primer