@@barragin9893 It is funny that you replied to this today. I wrote that comment 12 years ago... and it is still just as chilling and horrifying as the day I wrote it. Have a good one.
1:27 - the hint of things to come. The jet liner flying past. Gust is trying to warn Charlie that Al-Qaeda is moving into Kāndahār. (9/11 will happen in 12 years) Very eerie scene.
@@reductio1000 Only a moron thinks 9/11 could have been predicted in 1988. If you predicted it or know someone who actually did, then show evidence. If you didn't, then my comment is 100% correct and you can shut the fuck up.
I was looking for this clip of the movie for a long time. Zen master theory applies for everybody in present world. Never get better than this to put the idea more effectively.
yep, the throws wilsons drink to the ground, which i would assume is a sign of of potentially sobering up/seriousness.Then wilson throws the seriousness of the moment off, and the sound goes away (for another 12 years at least). Great scene, and great tale by hoffmann, which tbh should probably be told to every immediate victor of a conflict.
Yes u hear that jet & u think son of a bitch he saw the future. The fact that we just left,& helped them do nothing just helped people like bin laden push onto his would be believers that America just did this as a big repayment to russia for Vietnam.they had no interest whatsoever in helping Afghanistan.they used us. And he was sadly right. Unfortunately those are the politics of the world sometimes.Yes OBL was crazy,& needed to die,but sadly he was right.
Everything is just the way it's meant to be. Your mother held you in her arms as a new born and whispered to you "You're perfect!" and guess what? You still are, except somebody told you along the way between then and now that you are not....and you believed them, and this is perfect too
yep, divide and conquer should be followed up by prosperity and happiness for the conquered mass (or leadership, potentially). if not you likely have to use force and funds to keep them where u want them, and that is unlikely to be sustained by a home populous thousands of kilometers away for a protracted period of time.
Iv watched this movie like ten times because i think its amazing.If you watch when Charlie first meets Gust, Gust tries to tell this story and as he starts he has to leave so charlie can talk to His press staff. I found that interesting anywayyy
@zooch79 never thought ot that. good pickup. it may indeed. or they wanted to acurately recreate the setting or an appartment being near national airport in DC. jet airliners are a constant noise in the city...but i like your idea better.
@zooch79 Yup. I highly suggest you read the book on this though. It's a very good read and scarily enough, a nice precursor to what would happen about 10 years later.
We have no idea of what would have happened if the USSR would have been allowed to role thru Afghanistan, and continue on into the rest of the Middle East. The events that followed would have been completely different from our current reality. Nobody knows what the future truly holds, so enjoy the ride and we'll see....
Knowing what we know now, pouring money on them never would have made a difference. You can't transform a tribal culture overnight with money. Or over the course of 20 years, as it turns out.
No, Charlie Wilson was the only person in congress trying to get the afghans money to rebuild their country after fighting our proxy war. Charlie Wilson understood that if we left the place decimated and didn't help them rebuild their infrastructure fucking religious zealots and maniacs would flood in and captialize on the situation and he understood that because of Avrakotos. "These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
Sorry, I gotta call buckshot in this part of the movie. Give them money give them hope? Total BS. Plenary of people have been trying to “give the afghans hope” and it’s never worked. It’s a quagmire of tribalism, violence, and death and it was that way FAR before any westerner stepped foot there. Hell, even the Pakistanis, who culturally at least have some similarity to the Afghans have found it FAR easier to play just accept the situation and deal directly with the tribal warlords rather than pretend they could negotiate with any sort of “national” Afghan government. Sooooo many woke leftists think that if we just through enough menu into “education” that will fix everything. Sorry, there’s actually a lot that no amount of money or effort will fix and Afghanistan is one of them. A people have to want ti change before any change can actually take place… and the VAST majority of Afghanis don’t want any sort of change.
After WWII the US rebuilt Western Europe with the Marshall plan and Japan with grants during the occupation. It's the hierarchy of needs-- people have to deal with their immediate problems before they can move onto higher issues. And in Afghanistan, security has been a fundamental barrier to stability for generations-- and in most of the country there literally are no jobs or economic prospects except for soldiering or drug production. Of course the politics in Afghanistan are tribal and ethnic affiliated -- we had our alliances with warlords too. Tens of thousands of Afghans fought and died allied with the United States in the years after the Taliban fell. There's a narrative in the West that the Afghan army collapsed without a fight-- as if the Afghan army wasn't fighting in a hundred places for years while the US took troops out of direct combat (the entire Trump administration).
@@planetarysolidarity Ha. I know plenty of leftists. There people like you who think they have an answer for everything. Including how to “fix” places like Afghanistan, all while being someone who’s never gotten out from behind a cushy keyboard job. So go ahead, oh great safe, tell me how you would have saved Afghanistan? Stayed there for a thousand years? Spent trillions and trillions older no appreciable changes in Afghani outcomes? Go ahead, fix it. Get out from behind your keyboard and do it.
Knowing what we know now, this is one of the most horrifying conversations I have ever heard.
Yup!
Well see...
Also, scary f'n accurate
"Listen to what i'm tellin ya" ...sound of commericial jet overhead right at that moment.....
@@barragin9893 It is funny that you replied to this today. I wrote that comment 12 years ago... and it is still just as chilling and horrifying as the day I wrote it. Have a good one.
The jet engine roaring in the background is eerie as it gets knowing what we know now.
Winning a war is great.... but none if it matters if you can't win the peace.
"You're not stupid, you're just in congress."
We’ll see ....
",but then I repeat myself" - Mark Twain
RIP Philip Seymour Hoffman
"Hey....Listen to what I'm telling you." As he dumps Charlie's drink... and that look of both. One of the greatest moments in movies.
And the sound of a low flying aircraft. 911, anyone?
Yoooo, i didn't catch that@@alexanderpanaretos9364
And yes, I do think the plane overhead was meant as foreshadowing. Especially because he said "listen..."
1:27 - the hint of things to come. The jet liner flying past. Gust is trying to warn Charlie that Al-Qaeda is moving into Kāndahār. (9/11 will happen in 12 years)
Very eerie scene.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
@@jshepard152 Only a moron would describe a huge fuckup that will come back to bite him in the ass as "hindsight".
@@reductio1000 Only a moron thinks 9/11 could have been predicted in 1988. If you predicted it or know someone who actually did, then show evidence. If you didn't, then my comment is 100% correct and you can shut the fuck up.
@@jshepard152 butthurt much aaah..... yes.
Is part 2 of series about o'bummer and sisi?
Whatever to the negative commons here. Brilliant acting. "We'lll see....:
Not stupid just in congress. Best line in the movie
1:30
Hey--listen to what I'm telling you. As the plane passes overhead. Foreshadowing 911. Gives me chills
just right after Gust's the line:
"Listen to what I'm telling you."
Well, Uncle Sam, obviously you didn't listen.
We'll see, and we've seen over a decade of carnage an death in Afghanistan. What a genius line that was. We'll see
I was looking for this clip of the movie for a long time. Zen master theory applies for everybody in present world. Never get better than this to put the idea more effectively.
"We'll see" said the Zen Master.
Of course it is. He says, "LISTEN to what I'm telling you." And then we hear a random airplane flying overhead as it registers on Tom Hanks' face.
Thank you.
Wow! I wondered what was off - Thank you...
yep, the throws wilsons drink to the ground, which i would assume is a sign of of potentially sobering up/seriousness.Then wilson throws the seriousness of the moment off, and the sound goes away (for another 12 years at least).
Great scene, and great tale by hoffmann, which tbh should probably be told to every immediate victor of a conflict.
Sorkin at his best
If you thought the war was bad, wait until you see the "peace".
oh that moment when you hear the jet... RIP PSH
Yes u hear that jet & u think son of a bitch he saw the future. The fact that we just left,& helped them do nothing just helped people like bin laden push onto his would be believers that America just did this as a big repayment to russia for Vietnam.they had no interest whatsoever in helping Afghanistan.they used us. And he was sadly right. Unfortunately those are the politics of the world sometimes.Yes OBL was crazy,& needed to die,but sadly he was right.
Everything is just the way it's meant to be. Your mother held you in her arms as a new born and whispered to you "You're perfect!" and guess what? You still are, except somebody told you along the way between then and now that you are not....and you believed them, and this is perfect too
I'm guessing you're all proud of yourself for that ignorant irrelevant quote. It's utterly flawed and completely myopic. You're a clown.
GIVE THEM JOBS and GIVE THEM HOPE
yep, divide and conquer should be followed up by prosperity and happiness for the conquered mass (or leadership, potentially). if not you likely have to use force and funds to keep them where u want them, and that is unlikely to be sustained by a home populous thousands of kilometers away for a protracted period of time.
Ironically the Taliban are mad they have to take up office jobs now.
Like a shiver down the spine...we regret what we didn't pay attention to at the time it seemed so unimportant...
"there is no such thing as a Zen Master", said the Zen Master.
We'll see
@@19730116damn, best me to it
The Zen Master is Nobody. Nobody is listening.
My Birthday
@@douglaselder8200 I am ALWAYS listening, comprehending ? We will see ✌️
the subtle sound of the airplane foreshadowing the 9/11 hijackings
Iv watched this movie like ten times because i think its amazing.If you watch when Charlie first meets Gust, Gust tries to tell this story and as he starts he has to leave so charlie can talk to His press staff. I found that interesting anywayyy
Tom : i'm stupid .
Gust : you're not stupid, you're just in congress
great line :)
could you explain it
This is the such a powerful scene.
August 2021. We should have listened to the zen master and not fcked up the endgame.
Old Joe could eff up a ham sandwich.
they dropped the ball twice on afghanistan...then and 2002. drove the crazies out of town...then went to Iraq only to let the crazies roll back in...
Old Joe gets the credit for letting the crazies back in.
1:20 chills, every time
Thanks for sharing it ^^
Relevant
And we are still...there
What a film
I do now. Well played.
Pre 9/11, no one paid a second look to a low flying aircraft. Post 9/11, no one can't look at one without having a pause.
Notice the sound of a jet in the background when he says to listen to what I am telling you. Foreshadowing
The plane engines, foreshadowing used to masterful effect.
@jerryvalez You nailed it.
The original ending of the movie as written in the script was even more depressing
Sage advice, “we’ll see”
Gust is the zen master.
@So true.
@zooch79 never thought ot that. good pickup. it may indeed. or they wanted to acurately recreate the setting or an appartment being near national airport in DC. jet airliners are a constant noise in the city...but i like your idea better.
AND many years later, the US ran out of Afghanistan faster than Usain Bolt
we'll see
@zooch79 Without a doubt. It IS a movie, but it's littered with a bit of history.
That a huge number of Americans don't realize this led to 911 is part of the Zen Master story.
For-shadow like a MoFo at 1:26.
Will see
~❤️~
@zooch79 Thats exactly what it is...Well done
absolutely.. we let the lunatics take over and the road to 9.11 began
That film is interested
@zooch79 Yup. I highly suggest you read the book on this though. It's a very good read and scarily enough, a nice precursor to what would happen about 10 years later.
We are just a year away...
@jerryvalez Hence, Egypt.
do you think that the sound of the plane overhead at 1:30 is ment as foreshadowing?
@zooch79 We'll see...oooops, I mean, "we saw"....
What's the movie
@zooch79 that should have been painfully obvious
Seen movie several times. Would love to know WTH did Philip Seymour Hoffman say to Tom Hanks between 1:28 and 1:42? Please someone provide info
He doesn't say anything. Tom Hanks is simply reflecting on what he was already told by Gust.
@zooch79 I NEVER noticed that until this moment, but I guarantee you that was no accident.
My one problem with this movie is that a lot of the content and language prohibits it from being shown in public schools.
@zooch79 having a bad day?
You’re not stupid. You’re just in congress
The Afghans beat the Soviets - We'll see
they have beaten the US too.
@@reductio1000 and the Macedonians, Mongols, Sikhs British to just name a few more
Aliquippa
@ThaYowza
ill give any script credit that can make hoffman or hanks sound anything less than the morons they were/are respectively.
One cannot force another country to follow its own Dharma...Zen Master Blaster.
We have no idea of what would have happened if the USSR would have been allowed to role thru Afghanistan, and continue on into the rest of the Middle East. The events that followed would have been completely different from our current reality. Nobody knows what the future truly holds, so enjoy the ride and we'll see....
Oh sure, build roads and schools. That'll do it. An OK movie ends w/ a lot of Hollywood drivel. Par for the course.
F.C.B.
Knowing what we know now, pouring money on them never would have made a difference. You can't transform a tribal culture overnight with money. Or over the course of 20 years, as it turns out.
So because of Charlie Wilson we ended up with 9/11?
No, Charlie Wilson was the only person in congress trying to get the afghans money to rebuild their country after fighting our proxy war. Charlie Wilson understood that if we left the place decimated and didn't help them rebuild their infrastructure fucking religious zealots and maniacs would flood in and captialize on the situation and he understood that because of Avrakotos.
"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
Donald Trump said the system was corrupt and disgrace, and he said he wanted to make America great again.
We'll see, said the Zen Master.
... except donald trump was the face of the biggest problem that no one talked about for decades...
czcams.com/video/qkH0xGUgR0c/video.html
Sorry, I gotta call buckshot in this part of the movie. Give them money give them hope? Total BS. Plenary of people have been trying to “give the afghans hope” and it’s never worked. It’s a quagmire of tribalism, violence, and death and it was that way FAR before any westerner stepped foot there. Hell, even the Pakistanis, who culturally at least have some similarity to the Afghans have found it FAR easier to play just accept the situation and deal directly with the tribal warlords rather than pretend they could negotiate with any sort of “national” Afghan government. Sooooo many woke leftists think that if we just through enough menu into “education” that will fix everything. Sorry, there’s actually a lot that no amount of money or effort will fix and Afghanistan is one of them. A people have to want ti change before any change can actually take place… and the VAST majority of Afghanis don’t want any sort of change.
After WWII the US rebuilt Western Europe with the Marshall plan and Japan with grants during the occupation. It's the hierarchy of needs-- people have to deal with their immediate problems before they can move onto higher issues. And in Afghanistan, security has been a fundamental barrier to stability for generations-- and in most of the country there literally are no jobs or economic prospects except for soldiering or drug production. Of course the politics in Afghanistan are tribal and ethnic affiliated -- we had our alliances with warlords too. Tens of thousands of Afghans fought and died allied with the United States in the years after the Taliban fell. There's a narrative in the West that the Afghan army collapsed without a fight-- as if the Afghan army wasn't fighting in a hundred places for years while the US took troops out of direct combat (the entire Trump administration).
You clearly don't know any actual leftists.
@@planetarysolidarity Ha. I know plenty of leftists. There people like you who think they have an answer for everything. Including how to “fix” places like Afghanistan, all while being someone who’s never gotten out from behind a cushy keyboard job. So go ahead, oh great safe, tell me how you would have saved Afghanistan? Stayed there for a thousand years? Spent trillions and trillions older no appreciable changes in Afghani outcomes? Go ahead, fix it. Get out from behind your keyboard and do it.