How To Retrofit an AC System R-12 to R-134a -EricTheCarGuy
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
- Retrofitting AC systems is something that has been done for many years now. In 1996 systems were switched over to R134a from R12 refrigerant. R12 refrigerant is no longer available to the general public so when faced with a major AC repair on on older vehicle like my Acura Vigor, it's a good idea to retrofit the system to work with R134a. There are some important considerations however such as what to do with the old oil in the system. Be sure to consult with the service information for your vehicle for the most accurate information on that.
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So i found a broken bathroom window and a schrader valve in my sink....
LOL
lol good one
brilliant
I found my jaw on the floor
Thats weird I had the same this happen to me and im far away
i love this video because it shows that its OK to make mistakes and that you dont know everyting
I like how he had to go to a professional anyway. And THAT is why there are certifications required to do HVAC work. I wonder if the compressor is still working after those mistakes or if the JB Weld is still holding. Oh Well, 134a is cheap when the fitting needs to be replaced.
@@Phil454LSX to
Right, another wise quote from Eric "if you can't laugh at yourself you don't need to be doing this"
A few hints for R-12 to R-134a conversions if it is just not cooling good enough for you are a few common issues, but not limited to endless possibilities of multiple issues, but some to especially consider:
1. Replacing the condenser with a parallel flow-type condenser (R-134a, interchangable with R-12 also) in place of the large tube and fin (R-12) condenser for better heat dissipation.
2. Replace the cycling switch (usually located on the accumulator) with one calibrated for R-134a; as it cuts off at the proper PSI range, compared to R-12 pressures.
3. Check your mechanical fan clutch. these wear out and will not spin the fan fast enough to pull sufficient air-flow through your condenser. (most noticeable at idle) (also check your shroud)
4. Too much oil in the system. Look up the proper oil capacity for your vehicle.
5. Dirty evaporator (short-cycling, low air-flow. check your cabin air-filter if equipped)
6. Dirty orifice tube/expansion valve (from not flushing the whole system properly)
7. Air in system
Have question regarding r12 to 134a . Can i ask u ?
During the Schrader valve launch, Cameraman Brian remained perfectly still for the sake of the footage. However, later that night realized he had the Shrader valve lodged in the back of his neck!!!
I think a mechanically inclined person could become a pretty decent Honda mechanic simply by watching this guy's videos.
ETCG, you are the MAN. Thanks for another great video.
I would take the compressor off the vehicle and get all the oil out of it, then pour the new oil in the compressor, then hook the lines up and turn the compressor by hand for a couple of minutes. That has always worked well for me when retro fitting from R12 to 134A and usually can gat the recommended amount of oil in the system. I would have also changed the orifice tube, they are cheap and not that difficult.
Homer Simpson II Yet you don’t have one video on your channel of you doing anything to a car.
@@blackericdenice what does that have to do with car experience?
@@customersupport9513 What experience? Just because he can type it online does not mean he has done it. There are a lot of people come to my channel trying to school me on how to do something I've done. Yet when you go to their channel. They don't have any videos on the subject.
@@blackericdenice this guy was just commenting his method of doing something, people have hobbies you know? youtube doesnt directly describe everyones lives you know? you don't even know the guy and you're just coming at this dude for describing his method of retrofitting and whats happened to him in his experience so far. no one was trying to school you dude ur taking this to heart
@@customersupport9513 If you say so
Attempting to retro my 90 Accord EX. Will let you know how it goes. Shocks, struts, upper control arms, brake pads, rotors, wheel bearings have all been a sinch thanks to your videos. I appreciate your work and efforts ETCG. Especially when you make an error and show us at home that it not only happens, but that it's OK and fixable. Keep up the wonderful work!!
Howd it go
I loved how cold the AC was when I had my 91 240SX, it never leaked so I never had a reason to retrofit and it was ice cold every time I needed to use it. Unfortunately, that reliable old car is no longer with me.
I’m here because I’m just watching all AC videos.
I will be keeping R12 in 91 240sx.
I have a 93 civic coupe with r12 ac. I was thinking of using the retro fit to 134a and removing all the old refridgerant and put new one but take out the 134a fitting then use my r12 cans i have. But the civic hasnt been done in so long so i have alot of work to do to get that r12 to run in my civic again.
For the record, R12 IS still available, and at least in my state, you DON'T need a license. However, it's SUPER EXPENSIVE compared to 134, and only a few places sell it, so retrofitting the way Eric showed is by far the best choice.
You can get r12 for $30 a can off ebay. the way r134 is going up it will be more than that next month.
@@wesdoobner7521 I didn't know that, I don't shop on eBay too much. The prices I've seen were at auto parts stores.
@@jacobwolf1670 Ebay is the place to buy New old stock stuff, or used items. But r12 is up to about $42 a can including shipping charges now.
except for you only get maybe half the cooling effect from 134a than you do from R12. R12 systems could spray ice out of the vents.
@@wesdoobner7521 I am so happy I read your comment. Order up!
Perfect timing with this video, Eric. I have a 1985 Chevy Blazer and a 1994 Camaro both with R12 systems, and neither of them work. Thank you for sharing this.
I have a 1968 Cadillac with only 14K miles on it and the system has leaked out over the last 30 years that it was in storage. I was wondering how to get the AC back up and running, and this video answers that question. Thanks for making it!
Geez Eric, your videos lately have been syncing up oddly well with what we're covering in my classes. We just moved on to HVAC systems two weeks ago, and here you are with a very applicable video! Great video as always Eric, I'm happy to see firsthand how to convert an R-12 system to an R-124a.
This is a great video for anyone with a car or truck still using R12 refrigerant in their vehicle's AC. You did warn people not to over-tighten their AC fittings. That's critical. AC lines are made from aluminum and strip very easily, so that's a possibility that everyone should be aware of before they begin. You mentioned that vehicles made prior to 1996 were likely to use R12 refrigerant in their air conditioners, but both of my 1994 vehicles (Toyota Corolla and Dodge Dakota) were factory equipped with ACs that use R134a. There should be a sticker somewhere under the hood--and probably in the owner's manual--that lists the type or refrigerant used. Keep up the good work!
That's a *very* important point. ALL vehicles were REQUIRED to have R-134a by the 1996 model-year (in the United States, at least) -- but SOME vehicles had R-134a BEFORE the 1996 model year. (My 1995 Ford T-Bird had it.)
So if you have ANY vehicle from the early 1990s, check under your hood, or in the owner's manual, or in the service manual, BEFORE you assume that you need to upgrade your system to R-134a -- you might get lucky, and it already has R-134a from the factory.
usmale47374 That's a good point but I think it would be obvious if it was R134a because of the fittings used on the system.
EricTheCarGuy You're absolutely right. I'll credit my oversight to a senior moment. :)
+Lefty McStinky: "because DuPont's patents are running out." You are 100% correct, my friend. Isn't it funny how, just after DuPont's patents ran out on R-12, it was suddenly *dangerous* and *destructive of the ozone layer*. And, hey, guess who had the patent on the only available replacement? That's right - DuPont! And now that the patent is running out on R-134a, they're suddenly finding out that this "completely safe alternative to R-12" is *dangerous* and *destructive to the environment*. Ridiculous.
LMacNeill I'm section 608 universally certified and I think some of the EPA laws are just silly. Like 134a has an ozone depletion potential of 0 yet it is still illegal to vent.
Something to be considered when servicing an AC system older than 1996ish. How To Retrofit an AC System R-12 to R-134a -EricTheCarGuy
Hey Eric please see my post on top - Rob McCarthy
what happens if you put r134a without a retrofit kit ?
1994 is when all automakers switched over to R134a and now I'm seeing the new R1234yf and no you can't retrofit 134a with R1234
Good video, but I wouldn't suggest downgrading to R134a. R12 isn't crazy expensive anymore and an R12 system generally doesn't work as well as it used to once converted to R134a, and the system is often more likely to experience problems. Not just because R134a is less efficient, but also because it runs at a higher head pressure. And the R134a molecules are much smaller than R12 molecules, which means that R134a can leak right through R12 hoses. There are other problems with R134A conversions also, but you get the idea.
If you do decide to convert, you really should remove the entire system, flush out all the old mineral oil, replace the dryer and all the O rings, and use the proper oil. Leaving mineral oil in the system with R134a isn't a good idea. On some vehicles, it may be possible to upgrade to a parallel flow condenser, which will definitely help the R134a perform better and help mitigate the higher head pressures R134a runs at. Getting R134a barrier hoses may be a good idea too. And if you can find one, an R134a specific orifice tube or expansion valve also helps.
If you do everything I mentioned above properly, you can generally get a decent result with R134a. But if the AC working properly is important enough to you to go through all of that, spending an extra maybe $100 for R12 would probably be a good idea. And if you use ester oil, if you decide to convert to R134a later, all you have to do is recover the remaining R12, pull a deep vacuum, and get R134a fittings and you'll be good to go.
I want to take a second to thank you Eric for making these videos. They've helped me so much. I currently study automotive and the help u give mixed with lecture and practice is amazing. Ur the best :)
I've found that replacing the expansion valve makes a huge difference when either refilling 134/12 specially so if you are retrofitting. Thanks for the video !
As a parts specialist I was always having to help customers calculate the correct amount of oil and the right type for their vehicles. One of the biggest culprits of miscalculation was the small amount of oil that may already be supplied in the refrigerant. That may be where you went wrong. In a 24oz can I believe it already has about 4oz of oil in it. In this case Honda and yourself may not have been wrong, it could've been the refrigerant itself.
Another thing I've heard is that R134 is made up of larger molecules. This means the condenser may need to be replaced with one slightly larger to allow for greater expansion and better heat transfer. Whether that's an accurate statement is beyond me, but makes sense. It explains the difference in the cooling capabilities of both refrigerants.
At any rate it's a great video and I love watching this channel. Keep up the good work. Looking forward to more m.
4oz may be extreme, but usually there is oil in those cans.
B1GDaddyFatStax
is usually ~3oz for the big cans like he was using.
B1GDaddyFatStax Those cans can come with dye, with a specific type of oil, or with a sealer. You have to read the can to see what you are buying. I would not recommend getting the can with a sealer. It could cost you more in the long run when it doesn't seal as advertized.
John B. Kobberstad anything with sealer in it is a big no no imo
R134a molecules are actually 4 times smaller than R12 molecules hence the reason your system will leak a little over time vs R12
I believe they say that ester oil works with either of the refrigerants, and can be added to the system when changing to r134a from r12, without having to get all of the old oil out.
just helped me tremendously!
I'm a bit guy as we all are. was attempting to change Schrader valves and the low side was seized. thankfully it was retrofitted and after watching your video, I know realize it was able to just tread off. thanks for your insight and knowledge base! ETCG real deal
This guy is great and has a way of instruction that doesn’t make me feel like a dumbass
So what you're saying o the intelligent listener who wants REAL A/C like we had 50 years ago All we have to do is change some fittings at the Schrader valve in the oil and of course source the r12 it's out there. It can be reclaimed or purchased new old stock. But basically that's it. Put r12 in your system instead of r134 and you've got genuine AC again?
Eric, I'm glad that you don't hide your failures. We can often learn more from our failures than our successful jobs. I think that you misread the instructions for the amount of compressor oil. The instructions seemed to show the amount required if replacing the compressor, which you didn't do. Doesn't the R-134 require a new expansion valve at the evaporator?
I worked in a car shop from 94 - 96, and the R-12 you did need a license to buy, and even though cars were only a year or two old that were produced with R-12, it was getting impossible to find, and VERY expensive. We had an A/C reclamation system, and any cars that were junk, or being converted to 134, we'd suck the freon out of them. If I remember correctly, if you were trying to buy a bottle of R-12 (20 or 30lb bottle, idr) it was over 700 bucks.
the pressure in that dryer was crazy! I've never seen that before either.
probably was used
It would have been a nitrogen charge in the drier from new to prevent any air entering.
glad you will admit when something you do doesn't work out, but you follow up with the correct thing.
I know this is an old one but it’s new to me and I’m using all the info. Thanks Eric 🤙
6:38 That reminds me of back in high school auto class our instructor would always call schrader valves "Jesus valves" because everyone who removed them from the tire stem would jump and go "Jesus!" when it goes flying across the shop haha
I just used R413A. It doesn't require different oil.
I didn't fill it myself but the shop that did it did not install any different fittings.
It was an 15 minute job and the AC was good to go.
Good man, R437a is more suitable, as R413a is more of a R22 replacement, but like you say it works just fine and the oil is compatible.
437 and 413 can replace 12? im confused?
Pressure in that receiver dryer reason to always where safety googles when doing a/c work.
Yeah, I probably would have waited and let it vent out slowly to nothing.
Good thing you took it to a mechanic
"I feel somethin'. I feel it going in!"
This was a good video except for the fact that it left questions unanswered and more questions in addition.
Also, in my Big Truck's I used to run R-22 freon in them with some manipulation of parts and did for many, many years. I used to run all across the Southwest in the deserts with Giant Heavy Loads and it worked out well for me. I could put Frost on my windows with it.
Wow, Eric. You did an number of things wrong: First, R-12 uses mineral oil which is not compatible with PAG oil. To retrofit, you should use POE (ester) oil. second, you should not invert the refrigerant can in a receiver/dryer system (you can hydro-lock the compressor). Third, you should buy refrigerant that already has the correct amount of oil and florescent dye (makes it easier, less tools). Better luck next time :)
happy543210 I also read that PAG oil is incompatible with oil used in R12 systems. But then why would Honda says to use PAQ oil?
ptmoy1
Honda assumes you're replacing all parts with new ones. then, you wouldn't have lubricant cross-contamination.
happy543210 . I second your opinion. I retrofitted the AC on my 1989 5.0 convertible Mustang. I replaced the AC compressor for a new one as well as other vital parts for my AC system in order to retrofit it to R134. I used PAG oil because it was all new and hadn't been contaminated with any R12 oil or freon. I vacuumed the system, used PAG oil and R134. It made driving in southern California really nice at 50 degrees farenheit at the vent at it's coldest setting in sunny summer days whenever I didn't want to lower my convertible top. Had I only retrofited the AC shrader valves, which is what most people want to do anyway, I would have used Ester Oil with green dye.That is the oil to use when only retrofitting the shrader valves to use R134 freon after flushing and vacuuming the R12 system.
Once I did a retrofitting from R12 to R134a with normal R134a refrigerant and was a total failure because it never got cold. Then a few months later I vacuumed the system and filled it with a R134a refrigerant from "EnviroSafe" (compatible with R12 and R134a). The result was AMAZING. I even use it today on one of my cars. EnviroSafe gets you cold even if you have your system is filled to around 30 or 40%. To me there's nothing better. My two cents.
Right after reading your comment, I went into Amazon to look for this Enviro-safe R134a regrigerant. It says that each can is 3oz. but is = to one 16oz can of regular R134a refrigerant. It also says that the best (coldest I assume) result is without vacuuming the old AC system. Hard to believe but I'm willing to try it. I got 4 older cars to retrofit, maybe. 1991 Miata, 1991 4runner, 1989 Mustang 5.0, and a 1979 El Camino. I'll try it first on my 4runner. If it works, I'll use it for the rest of the cars. Thanks for the info.
Evacuate system, remove orifice tube from high pressure line, remove low pressure line and then blow denatured alcohol through high pressure line to thoroughly clean oils from system, coming out from the low pressure side. Continue through a couple of cleaning cycles then blow completely dry, fill with pag oil, close off system then check for leaks before recharging. Old man showed me this back in the late 90's.
Ester oil, compatible with R-12 and R-134A. Best method. Remove pump hoses, remove orifice tube or expansion valve, remove accumulator. Flush system and dry remaining components (easy with older r-12 systems), Charge pump with new PAG oil, install new expansion valve or orifice tube, install new accumulator, replace all o-rings and seals, install retro fits, pull vacuum for one hour (removes all air and boils off any water. Now here is the best trick ever, go to a truck parts store and buy a 30Lb r-134a jug for around $100, recharge accordingly.
Mineral oil sits in the compressor. I always take it off and clean it out, replace the old accumulator and orifice tube, flush your lines and evaporator with a flush gun. Then proceed with your vacuum. If it holds a vacuum no need for dye. I don't like using that stuff unless you have to. The cleaner the guts the better. :) At 90° low side 45-55 and high side 250-270.
Many thanks, Eric. I’m starting to diagnose the HVAC issues on a ~1993 Toyota and while I thought it was a R134(a?) system I was confused by the different high and low fittings to the gauge manifold set I’ve got and in comparison to a more modern European car. Based on the fittings it now appears the vehicle was designed as a R12 so will be needing a conversion kit to start the process. No dramas and many thanks for showing the work on your ‘Honda’. My learning has continued with a sojourn into your archive of videos, which are still very relevant. Cool and thanks, again.
I use a 40/60 mix of refrigerant grade propane and iso-butane in my 88 Corvette as R12 replacement... works very good since years. Mixing it myself, very cheap and environmentally friendly. No need to add new oil or open the system. But as far as I know it is illegal in the USA...
Well yeah man, it’s flammable and heavier than air, meaning it tends to draw flame into compressed spaces unlike things like natural gas that flame out and are generally safer.
Good video! Old R12 driers are silica and do not work well with R134a. R134a driers are molecular sieves and its best to use them in the retrofit. In Toyota this means drilling new holes for the pins as the driers are keyed for each system. If you use PAG the system should be very empty of mineral oil because they do not mix. Another oil choice is POE which does mix with old mineral oil, but is more moisture sensitive and should only be freshly opened (not like crusty old PAG can in this video!) When you put the new fittings on its also best to pull the existing schrader valve core and lose the little plastic piece on the new valves which is supposed to press the old valve core down. The plastic can dissolve and screw up the new valve! The general rule of thumb is R134A 0.9lbs = R12 1lb
+tedmich Thank you for the reason to pull the schrader valve! I was looking at the conversion and knew it had the ability to depress the valve, but I didn't know of the fact of the plastic being dissolved.
also a note for why r134a does not cool as good as r12 in an original r12 system for anyone thats seeing this video in the future is because you need a parallel flow condenser. some aftermarket condensers that you buy for your car pre '94 will already come as parallel flow, some will be the original tube and fin design.
i took the retrofit one step further on a 92 318i convertible. purchased a parallel flow condenser, a new compressor dryer and replaced every oring with the green ones, the only original parts were the lines them selves and the evaporator. these things i used an ac system flush and about 30psi of air. new pag oil and unfortunately it was a fill until ice cold situation. theirs no real way to determine how many oz of r134a would go in an original r12 design.
If I owned a old car like this then hell yah id try to diy this. My newer Hyundai requires that you measure the amount of refrigerant being pumped in from a drained system. Also they state that you should measure the amount of oil per unit being replaced. Each item in the ac system takes a certain amount of oil. Just for you guys out there if you are out by one ounce of refrigerant for the total you can cause damage to ac parts. That's why he took it to the guy with the 10 thousand dollar ac machine. This machine drains charges and adds the oil to the exact amounts. We have one of this machines in the truck yard were I work. A little tip. get it drained by this machine. Take it home do your work on the ac... change parts whatever then take it back and pay to have it recharged with this machine. Buy that vacuum machine that eric used to test for the pressure to hold so you can confirm your repair. These machines cost 100 bucks. A set of gauges cost 60 bucks. But as for charging unless you can scale the weight of each can the amount of ounces that is put in don't even try this at home. Thanks for sharing this video.....
R-12 is still widely available in Mexico at around US$13 per 1lb can.
I lived in southern California. I crossed the border into into TJ early before going to the bars just to have a shop in TJ refill my 91 Miata & my 91 4runner with R12 soon after r12 was banned here in the U.S. Sure you can buy the r12 refrigerant cans there but remember that it's illegal to cross them into the U.S. So paying a few dollars to keep that r12 cooling power was not bad at all considering I was 20 years old back then when crossing into and out of TJ. So it wasn't so bad. The primary reason was to party back then so refilling my R12 was secondary. But if R12 is more cold than R134, then why is the air so cold on the new rental cars?
@@johnnyjohn8073 im thinking the newer ac cores and entire hvac system are designed to be more efficient. i was talking to a radiator repair shop the other day and learned a lot about what designs can increase the thermal efficiency of things like radiators. the science behind ac cores and radiators is probably pretty similar just different metals and pressures.
Most likely its Propane
@@johnnyjohn8073 System designed for 134a vs retrofitting a system designed for R12
Hugh Jazzole' ,
Yeah, what do they call that stuff?
R290 ??
Its nice to know even professional mechanics also run into problems sometimes.
Poor compressor. First it got slugged with straight liquid r-134a then got slugged with straight oil. That compressor has pistons. It's like hydro-locking a motor. The reed valves are probably damaged now.
You are the voice of doom.
Exactly. This guy doesnt know shit. When converting this system one MUST flush the system of all oils, sealers, and dies and fluid refrigerants with a proper solvent and blown out and separate each component and all lines otherwise you are wasting your time as they well witnessed. All connector springs and seals MUST be replaced as well as the orifice tube to see if the guts of the compressor have blown itself out and into the system. Very very poor video. There are also other measures one must take to do this properly. I dont believe you have to remove those schrader vales to retrofit any system I know I didnt
LOL. Let the buyer beware.
@@quevicular that what i said you add 8 ounces of oil but only after remove all old oil he put 8 in with the old in still in there i guess it was to much
@@quevicular This car didn't come with an orfice tube and yes you have to take out the with those schrader valves with that kind of fittings
You know not to mess around with HVAC when Eric goes to another guy
Good job showing that the mistakes made in retrofitting an A/C system are not only exclusively reserved for the novice. I would have flush the old oil out with compressed air and denatured alcohol. Then added the 4oz of Pag oil. I too, oil logged a A/c system in my earlier days. Again great job in sharing the trials and tribulations of auto mechanics.
R12 was 99 cents a can when I used to buy it You could get it anywhere When I ran out of it a few years back I decided to go with butane instead of R134. Still had to do a complete system cleaning as the old oil was not compatible.
I was gonna say....my 1994 F-150 Step Side came with R-134a from the factory. I bought it new.
You can still buy r12 online if you need it
I liked the JB Weld fix, did he learn that when he was getting his 609 certification? .... Oh, Wait ... whats a 609 Cert? A $6 pack of JB Weld sure beats buying a new $2 fitting ... Why buy the fitting now when you can buy it later and have to change it. At least the system won't be full anymore after the JB Weld fails and releases all the refrigerant. When you add oil you also have to consider that there is already oil in the system, unless you flushed it all out. No wonder the system was overfull of oil.
A system isnt by fact sealed/not leaking if it keeps the vacuum! 1. You only get a vacuum of 30 inHG as you mentioned (still unrealstic low ^^), that are 14psi vacum. And the pressure when working is around 200+ psi ;)
2. when the system is filled it is under PRESSURE not a vacuum! Lets say you hav a crack in a hose, this crack could maybe only open under pressure.
The viewer should just take this with them.
And also pointing out that in a professional car shop you have to have a person who has the license to work on AC systems, otherwise the shop is not allowed to work on a filled system/ allowed to fill a system
That first line is quite incorrect. And does the viewer need to take it with them if they don't do A/C service?
I will be going to Scott’s shop, he seems to know what he is doing!
At first I was upset I was getting on 27-28 on the vacuum...thought something was wrong, but it held vacuum...then I saw this vid :)
The irony is that r134a is actually the more efficient refrigerant then R12. It just has higher pressures which requires better condensing which the old R12 system isn't designed for so you don't get as good performance out of the R12 system running r134a.
Some cooling though sure is better then no cooling, I really need to replace my condenser o-rings myself for next summer. Such a mild one this year I've got a feeling we'll be paying for it in 2015
I am in the process of retroing a 1973 FORD Torino/Ranchero. All of my research says NOT to use PAG oils in a system that may still have mineral oii residue but to use Ester oil as it is comparable with 134a + mineral oil. Regardless what Honda says, they are not in the retrofitting business, and I can't afford to fix an avoidable error, so it will be Ester Oil for me and my old FORD....
RooDog
@Zombie Head
I'm not dealing with a German car, they tend to overengineer everything, this is just a simple old American FORD. I have done many hours of research on the subject, though have not found anyone who has done the exact same retrofit as I am doing. I will have a new receiver dryer, POA valve eliminator with an adjustable pressure switch as well as a binary switch in series to control the compressor's cycling. The compressor is an OEM York which I will remove and clean as best as I can, drain, measure and refill with Ester oil. There in lies the rub, all the original oil can not be removes with a simple draining. I am also fabricating new lines with barrier hose and crimp type bead lock fittings, and new green O rings, . Also will be pressure flushing both the condenser and evaporator with ester base flushing solvents. I am retaining the option of using either 134a, or even R152a as a refrigerant, hence the use of ester oil for lubricant. I know the recommended charge for 134a is 80% of the R12 spec, the R152 is unknown, but I can do the charging by watching the hi and lo pressures on my manifold gauges. The one thing I can not get a straight answer on is how much oil to charge the system with. That may not be critical; I have serviced many collision repair jobs, usually replacing the condenser and a line or two but have never added any oil to those repaired systems, nor replaced any undamaged receiver driers since the involved insurance companies refused to pay for undamaged parts regardless of the recommended service procedures. In any case, there were never any AC comebacks in over 40 years of similar repairs. The man with the money makes the call, and I'm calling for ester oil.....
....RooDog....
@Zombie Head
I have had mixed input regarding the expansion valve. In theory it works the same regardless of the refrigerant as it senses the tempature of the coil and adjusts its orifice according to demand, and many replacements are listed as suitable for either refrigerant, so I'll not sweat it's function unless it proves to be defective.
My old FORD is a Ranchero, essencially a pickup truck cab discuised as a passenger car, or vice versa. The OEM condenser is a monster 18x24 two rows of tubes and fins snaking back and forth covering the entire radiator opening. If this should prove to be inadequate, so be it, as this entire project is as much an experiment as a result driven exercise for my future entirely self designed system going into my hotrodded 1951 FORD Paneltruck.
It's all fun and games until some one gets his eye blasted with refrigerant. Now, lets go have fun with our cars.....
RooDog
@Zombie Head
For no more tan one costs I just now ordered a Four Seasons brand new expansion valve, $27 to my door from Rock Auto. Thank You for the pressure in the right direction....
RooDog....
@Zombie Head
This project is an experimental hobby car app, more than a must have. It has a monster two row condenser, 18 x 28 inches wide. If it gets to be an issue, then I may think about Vintage Air's slightly smaller 16 x 27", $179 condenser. At some point one has to stop throwing money at it. Also R152A has different characteristics from 134a, as an option....
AS I mentioned earlier, I ordered an Expansion Valve per my application by FourSeasons from Rock Auto, it arrived on the third day, and to my surprise, and pleasure, it is lazer etched on the diaphragm cover for 134a refrigerent. I am so F'n happy.....
while its true that all vehicles by law had to use r134a from 96 on, most of the car companies decided to implement it starting halfway through 1994 and by the 95 model year the change over was 90% complete. its interesting to me that you didnt mention some of the alterntives to retro-fitting the r12 systems. i have read about and seen people using propane and recently canned air dusters to recharge r12 systems without worrying about the oil differences. i personally think using propane is a dangerous proposition and anybody enterting that thought needs thier head examined and possibly removed. thanks for the video. as always a great way to spend 20 minutes
93 were 134A too
you are already driving around with 10+ gallons of highly flammable liquid...
You can buy R12 all day on Ebay, you can also use canned air as an alternative. Don't recommend these conversions as the evaporator can't handle the higher pressure and it won't cool worth a damn on really hot days when idle.
It's interesting that Honda would recommend adding PAG oil to an R-12 system. It's always been my understanding that PAG oil and and remnants of R-12 are completely incompatible and will form corrosive compounds. Am I missing something here?
Wren Wright They are. Much like R22 and R410a oils are not compatible in home systems. The R12 oil should be flushed prior to adding the PAG oil to the system. The system may have worked for awhile with both types of oil in it but obviously it would "gum up" the works in short order and cause the components to wear out very quickly.
bdbrolly Most comments in websites and forums I've read agree with what you said. But Interdynamics makes a conversion kit that's been in the market for quite awhile now, and I haven't heard of any failure complains. The FAQ in their website says their conversion kit usues PAQ oil, and that PAQ and Ester oils are both compatible with the R12 mineral oil. The fact that Honda also uses PAQ in their conversion kits as shown in Eric's video, has gotten me really confused.
im going to be doing this on my 1977 buick lesabre, im certain it had R12, going to be buying the retrofit kit and adding new Freon, look forward to it having ice cold AC finally.
Another great video about something I had to do to my Prelude...
Luckily I have access to a professional service unit for A/Cs.
we watch these videos to learn , thanks Eric keep up the good work
To me you used Frigi-quiet oil from BG if you want your system to last a long time , try it , you will like for 8oz , I used to change So many a/c system Like I changing brake pads at the dealers I works for in those dates , BG is the best brand for oil, once it done , you will turn a/c down because the system is too cold because of BG brand , and it the truth , but that oil is around $30 for 12 oz. but it worth it
This is why i was so happy the guy i bought my 91 s10 had already done this for me. now i just have to fix the vent controller to actually get to use the a/c
I can say that a properly charged ac with 134A will cool as good or better than R12 you just have to know how to set the right pressures with a working system
Enviro-Safe one 6oz can = 18oz of R-12
Works great in R134a systems as well 1 can =16oz R134a
Warning for educational purpose only. This is not a legal refrigerant in the US.
Buy it by the case on amazon. Thank me later. OH its a bit more flammable than r134 so fix your leaks first.
Hi Eric the Car Guy, greetings from San Francisco. Thank you for making this and the many other videos that you have put together to help others out there figuring out car stuff issues. I wanted to ask your opinion/advice on the following: In my 1985, Chevrolet Astro 2.5L 4CLY, 4 speed manual, I recently took it to a mechanic to re-charger the AC. He mentioned that my system was old, so he had to order those retrofitting connectors that you show on this video. However, the AC on this year van is the R12 and the mechanic said that he refilled it with r134. After that, the air does blow cold and all that good stuff but the AC compressor comes on and off/engages and disengages. I figured out that it could be due to a faulty AC clutch switch. The question is, if the AC clutch switch clearly reads "R12" as from the original manufacture, should I get an AC clutch switch that is for "R-134A"? The main difference is that the system does not have "R12", it was re-filled with "R134". Thank EricTheCarGuy, I hope you can help me figure out which one I should get or if it would make any difference.
That was nitrogen in new filter dryer
Yep, to keep the moisture out. Same for inside units for mini split systems
When I was in school my instruction mentioned something about the O-Rings being a different color for the R12 and R134a systems. You did not mention anything about this, so I am wondering if it makes a difference? Maybe it serves as easy identification or the different oils react to them in a different ways?
yes they are different
Hey Eric, great video! Only thing is that I would have showed the fixing of the fitting with JB weld. Just to show the whole process. I know JB weld isn't the best thing in the world to use, and some people consider it a "hack" kind of repair, but it would have been cool to see.
Great video Eric. I am currently living in japan and it nearly impossible to find retrofit kits here. I have discover a lot Japanese classic car shops use r600a/r290a aka pure propane for retrofitting. I have used it in several cars now. Its compatible to both r12 and r134 oil. The a/c will blow colder with r600a/r290a. You should give it a try.
in the states it is illegal to use flammable gasses as refrigerant in vehicles
Yeah we dont use propane in our vehicles ac due to flammability lol. True, it does blow the coldest, but its the most volatile.
@@daniellau5859 the new r-1234yf is flammable.... and comes in new cars....
@@jasoncook5307 this comment didn’t age well
I absolutely love this video but I think some oil would be left in the compressor. Thank u for the info. Nice job.
I need to get the AC for my 1985 RX-7 working or else I'm going to melt, glad it doesn't seem to be that hard. Just gotta get that oil refrigerant balance and fix the numerous leaks I probably have :)
Dear Eric. Thank you indeed for the lovely video as usual (I call it real life videos). I and probably every one knows that nothing surpasses the American Cars ACs in terms of great cooling capacity, Loooooooool Have a great time and keep bombarding us with your videos.
This video isn't playing for me... anyone else having a problem with it? It just never starts! Oh, it must be my AT&T High Speed DSL service goofing up again.. UGH...!
How long does an a/c system normally last? I have a '93 Dodge Ram Cummins with R-12. I've owned this truck for 14 years now and have never had an issue with the a/c. Never even had to add any freon to it. It's much colder than the a/c in my 1990 Corolla, which I converted to 134a about 15 years ago. The truck has about 205k miles on it now.
JB Weld ..really ETCG
I think new a/c components come pressurized with nitrogen. I bought a condenser and it was pressurized. this keeps the moisture out.
Just curious how you got the oil out of the system was it strictly vacuuming?
He said he didnt… just add
Yeah I botched my system when I didn't vacuum it out. The stuff I used said not to put it into a vacuum state (Envirosafe), and the cooling is piss poor. Also I think I did what Eric did and put too much oil in the system since low side pressures were high, though I didn't have a manifold gauge set so I couldn't see my high side pressures. Also my system is an R12 system that I installed in my car since it originally didn't even have a/c. Now it is friggin' cold as shit outside so now I want heat. lol
Yea, in 1993 ye ol autoshop teacher said add oil when you recharge which may have been fine then, claiming he never saw a compressor damaged by too much oil. Not so valid now, had to replace my condenser after hitting a deer went ahead and added 8oz of oil since it blew what looked like a lot out. Didn't work right, did a recovery on it it had 14oz of oil. Put back the correct 8oz and it worked like new.
and I know the books say drilling into a bad receiver dryer or accumulator and emptying the pag oil into a measuring cup is a good way to measure how much oil you should add to each component but I would imagine the ac manuals would tell you specifically how many ounces of oil to add to each component rather then using the 2 or 1 ounce rules of things or going by how much was left in a bad component and assuming that was close to the orginal amount ... and you don't have to drill a thing or have a measuring cup just look up the manufacturing recommended specification
Cool! You are gonna get some cold air out of the vents during the breezing Ohio nights:-)
Or the janky way put r134a though r12 gauges tighten the hose clamps duct tape the hoses and pray that the ancient hoses hold
55 with the windows down has always been my ac I have never had but a couple vehicles that actually had working AC and I still wouldn't use it. AC is fine if you care and I live in the south where 85 feels like 100 but still windows down and cruise, I've got to convert my s10 over to r134 just to get ac going if I need it lol.
Well done Eric. Very informative video. I have an 89 Ford Ranger. I am assuming that it must be retrofitted for R 134. Is that correct?
Is it required to change out the receiver dryer when you convert? Also, my high and low valves aren’t labeled so how do I know which is which?
Should have changed the txv valve or orffice i found the low side ussaly go into vaccum with old ones, installed new one on my car and the ac runs great
low side goes into a vacuum if there isn't enough refrigerant in the system also
JB Weld. Very professional!
It is amazing how well that stuff works. On this type of repair I'd recommend JB weld original. Slower to cure and practically impenetrable if all surfaces are properly cleaned.
if you change the condenser to one designed for 134a it will work a lot better.
You definitely would have gotten a better result if you drained the old oil from the compressor and flushed the old oil out of the evaporator, lines, and condenser before adding PAG oil and R134a. Mineral oil is not compatible with PAG oil or R134a, so it will just take up space and act line an insulator, reducing efficiency. The good news is mineral oil will not chemically react with R134a or PAG oil, it just won't mix any better than oil and water would. So trace amounts of remaining mineral oil is perfectly fine, but less is better.
There's nothing worse than a crusty Schrader, right Walter? ;-)
Change the expansion valve if you put r134 in r12 system r134 uses different pressure thats why you have high pressure in the system
So.. my experience in retrofitting from r12 to 134a is that,rubber o-rings need to be changed to green silicone style. Receiver/dryers need changed,and the compressor should be replaced (reason being older compressors will not have proper silicone internal seals..i.e. black rubber o-rings cannot properly seal 134a refrigerant from leaking. (Reason being ; 134a is a smaller molecule- henceforth it will escape from a R-12 designed system! BTW most vehicles with old R-12 systems have long since leaked out.
Awesome fact! Don't retro fit to 134-a RETRO -FIT with propane!
Fact All automotive A/C systems prior to WW2 were charged with Propane! Big molecules like R-12
Also gets damm cold..
I believe my ALLDATA has the oil amounts per compressor I just did a 92 tempo pretty much exactly the same other than the dumb quick fittings( Ya right QUICK), But great job Spot on for the retro.
I hate reto kits, I'm not sure about honda but you can tweak the low presure switch if you un plug it thers a flat screw under some tamper putty I belive its 1/4 turn cc to change pressur to better sute 134A, take a look
Great Video. I have a 93 Ford Escort I would like to do this to. Very informative.
You think the JB Weld will last. its a damn good epoxy but...