J. Krishnamurti - Ojai 1982 - Discussion with Scientists 1 - Roots of psychological disorder
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- čas přidán 5. 01. 2014
- J. Krishnamurti - Ojai 1982 - Discussion with Scientists 1 - Roots of psychological disorder
Summary:
Q: What is the source of psychological disorder?
Is not the self the beginning of all disorder?
I have created society through my anxiety, through my desire for security, through my desire to have power. Like the animal. It's biologically inherited. Also my own individualistic activity has created this society. Is it possible to be free of my conditioning?
If my relationship with life is not "right" how can I find out something that's immensely beyond all this, beyond time, beyond thought, beyond measure?
Will knowledge transform me?
Is there a deep, abiding security?
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I love how after every question they take their time to think before answering and that they’re civil and calm, qualities that are so lacking nowadays.
Είναι όντως όμορφο.. συνεννοούνται όμως; Καταλαβαίνουν ο ένας τον άλλον ώστε να φτάσουν σε ένα συμπέρασμα;
Yeah, these days it's all about who can answer the quickest and instant gratification. Like interviews on news channels.
Answer is in their discussion only
That people become more self centered as they don't even what to listen others opinions completely beyond reality
People thinking their observations, experiences, opinions, are more important than the reality
It's completely self centered individualistic way of life as jk said in discussion
And one important thing is people are not adaptive they want to be stubborn
They're not lacking, they have completely vanished.
my goodness, yes!
This is a real discussion.
Not the trash debates between atheist, scientists and religious people of today with stadium alike audiences that clap and scream
Ya Red so true. I do not want to take anything away from the importance of the topics, but I found myself simply enjoying seeing people sitting together, having a discussion. Not with the purpose of “winning” the discussion or be proven right. Simply for the purpose of searching for an answer to a problem for the benefit of all.
Exactly... It's a dialogue or discussion 😌
Yes, it’s refreshing that nobody got “ owned” or “destroyed “..Very civilised discussion between great minds.
Diving deep without outside help is not easy. Only _advanced_ seekers will be able to do that.
Yes indeed. Its almost like being able to breathe again after a long period of suffocation. Yes I watched these pointless debates you are mentioning. This is a serious
dialogue and an increasingly important one.
Around 40 years ago,I built the stonework at his residence in Ojai, and spoke with him on a daily basis. I was young and hadn't grown spiritually yet. Wish I would've spoken with him about it!
So, do you have any interesting anecdotes or insights to share? Did you happen to note them down?
You are here now 🙏
These conversations are national treasure of the world. Totally mind blowing. Pure meditation. JK is limitless.
Hence, INTERnational treasure, wouldn’t you say?
surprisingly i dont see it mind blowing at all. this conversation has awkward and JK drives most of the conversation based on his understanding.
the whole conv seems like to me a bunch of grown men trying to explain a toddler why he cant rub lasagna all over his own face and throw the dish on the floor, i can sense their frustration growing. however very impressive that they can keep it in themselves, numerous times jk keeps on reverting back to a point that has already been addressed- he might be demented but i would consider that extremely rude
Global treasure
After a long time, this, youtube's suggestion was worth it, literally.
Oh man i felt the same watching it now...
When the algorithms become better than the human being....?
Yeah, nice of CZcams to take a break form suggesting Miley Cyrus underwear dances.
At last! Thank you, CZcams (this one time...)
If it was “literally” Worth it then that would mean there’s a value to it, how valuable is this to you
I never went to university, and so I've never gotten to experience dialogue, debate such as this. How wonderful to know that people can truly LISTEN to one another, and out of mutual respect, want to learn the Truth of a thing, rather than push a personal belief. I had a very fine qigong teacher who used to tell us that no one person, no matter how learned or studied, could ever know the Totality, or total Truth of a thing - that our perception of a thing can only ever be a very small part of the whole, seen through the lens of our particular upbringing, education, conditioning, etc. I get the sense that Krishnamurti is leading these learned men to find a deeper truth, without stating it, by asking questions, by helping them come to the answer themselves... My personal feeling is that egoism is the cause of so many of the terrible things happening on this planet. And I DO believe it is possible to change this aspect of ourselves, though it must surely be the most painfully difficult thing one could ever endeavour to do...
Yes, precious person. I wonder if it might prove to be the least painful thing to do in Reality. ?
This is not debate
i guess being judgemental in the right way, about evreything , can provide total freedom, experince a thing, being judgemtal about it, but in the right way, observe it, and same apply to myself too, to get away from self conflict or societal conflict
Ive never in my life have ever seen such a respectful, peaceful and understanding dialogue!
My favorite part, "How will you help me to go into myself so deeply that I understand and go beyond". I enjoyed this discussion thoroughly. Thank you for making this available.
Are you here for enjoyment ?
@@guruprasadmuppana3717 it's still better than discussions/debates these days
my favorite part as well
@@guruprasadmuppana3717 No, he is here for self torment. Trust me, I know Clyde.
This is called A Dialogue of Wise people. Not a trash talk show among so called intellectuals in present days
Intellectual trash talks are ego driven 😤
True Facts!
And yet, how does your comment contribute to this inquiry? Where is the actual inquiry ? Why do we keep up this status quo?
observing without evaluation is the highest form intelligence.
Of course
Jiddu Krishnamurti spoke the absolute truth. Soon the world will become ready to understand his beautiful teaching ♥️
I am skeptical that this is true. The world trends towards increased disorder constantly, it seems. I’m very heartbroken about the state of the world today.
@@jdavidrhea Same here. I don´t think human beings could ever really change...
@@comenadgetmeor it could be that the downward spiral that society is currently heading, will simultaneously create a bigger need for this truth to be heard by everyone. Just like most of us with that sort of subconscious craving for the right way to live our lives we feel different trying to conform to the way this society is setup and cannot accept that this is the way we were meant to live, being stuck in a trap of our own selfish and materialistic making.
I felt like in Heaven while listening all of this. How maturely , patiently and deeply they were listening each other.The conversation Going straight in the Heart.
I agree, I also like how they make you think about these subjects. Just put more thought in to it some times we go about our life with out really thinking about our action. Once you start feeling your brain working and getting exercise its like a breath of fresh air. They should do more of this now a days.
I literally felt some thing inside me changed forever midway listening to this... omg i am so glad I watched it.
Oh yes YOU are!
Ohh u r really lucky.
wow, what an honest conversation. I want more people like that around me.
You are the society! You are the people surrounding you, that's what i got from it .
me too to be honest the world would be a better place with people like krishnamurti
This is called the real gems of knowledge...By the great soul.
May the psycological education and guidance start soon in every school from kindergarten to universities all over the world💗🙏💗
This is such a fascinating discussion and shows how psychology, biology and science are now discovering the truth of Krishnamurti’s position. Epigenetics now shows we can change our biological conditioning. Techniques like ACT and mindfulness in Psychology are teaching patients to recognize they exist as more than just a collection of thoughts, feelings and conditioning. And quantum physics is proving more and more that one’s so called reality is not as real as we ‘think.’
Considering how far our species has evolved technologically and otherwise, it’s imperative humanity recognize the truth shared by masters and mystics over millennia. Unless we come to know Ourselves, we’ll destroy ourselves. It’s time!
Yes, our inwards lives have to advance to the degree of our outwards environment. We've gone to the moon and much more. We have to become inwardly every bit as "advanced" or we will destroy ourselves with the technologies we have created.
That’s the next part of evolution. Let’s hope we can manage to survive this climate crisis in order to fulfill us within
@@williamkoscielniak820 inward life advancement is not an evolutionary process. It has to happen instantly without an element of time. This was the unique contribution of Krishnamurti.
It feels like lot of things are rediscovered just because scientists feel superior to anything that was done previously and doesn't even attempt to understand what is already there
I'm from future to tell you we have created ai
Krishnamurti: the man, the myth, the legend
Please don't say that. He's just a man who I'm sure understood but I'm not sure what exactly.
@@TheTirikou easy, he was just playing. I recognize that saying from the movie Amadeus about Mozart. Very unKrishnamurti of you to ask someone to not express themselves because something they said makes you feel a certain way.
What did that comment make you feel? Go into it.
He was a philosopher. Not to be worshipped, but studied.
Whenever i listenin this man, i just fall in love with him.
Mee too brother🙏🙏🇮🇳🇮🇳
He is very lovable 💞
I came to almost the same conclusion on my own yesterday. Accept the suffering. Enjoy it because there is no escaping it. The suffering comes from trying to escape the inescapable. It is exhausting.
very true,, suffering is no suffering escaping is suffering ..hi tterie
If you look closely there's not suffering at all, it is just illusion. You have to look into suffering what it is.
@@lovbet8609 I believe that the experience of suffering isn't an illusion for our senses and our minds, as far as emotions and feelings storm through us. I agree with your last sentence, that we've got to look into suffering as what it is, yes 🧐
I would say pain and suffering is two different things , Pain is inevitable but suffering is optional . If some one poke you it will cause pain but in your mind you have option to make it suffering or not!!
This conversation alone reflects what Krishnamurti started our present world’s leaning into a whole new level of cognition in regards to A New Humanity. If I let go of trying to understand everything exactly and just let the way they are all talking sort of “wash over” me…I am transformed
The whole conversation was so decent with deep insight into ourselves to find solutions within ourselves instead of depending on others. And individual problem is not a personal problem with depression, anxiety, anger, war etc… it’s holistic.. it can only be solved through Self introspection by asking questions ourselves. If we change inside the world changes… humans are inter linked…vibration, it’s a ripel effect.
so respectful conversation. keen listening. insightful questions. deep reflections. objective answers. JK is so admirable.
The thing i liked most in this discussion is that each individual took some time to comprehend what is being asked. I think this is the difference between discussion and debate, in debate, each individual is ready with the answers without thinking much about the question.
Thank you for uploading this.and to translate this. From Japan.
Translate . Where ??..it's in English originally
@@SiddharthSingh-up2gs Siddharth Singh captions
JK is light years ahead. The way he explains: why separate yourself from society, I am society." Love his gentle and genteel manner.
It's astonishing how he dismantles arguments that looks solid as rock.
And he's trying his hardest not to dismantle anything, I feel like. Just asking people to open up to a new possibility
Introducing JK as a 'religious philosopher and author...' flies in the face of his very "teachings" - and he didn't want the label as a teacher either - but sure he took it in the holistic sense of those terms.
Do we know who the other participants are?
@@armandoalemdar534 J. Krishnamurti, David Bohm, John Hidley, Rupert Sheldrake
J.K is not religious. He is a great thinker and a philosopher
There are only so many ways to describe things. A philosopher unlike any other maybe?
you can't label something you don't know. jk is like that. he denies every identity you put. you can't see the ultimate seer.
I went deep into it and felt like opening a new horizon of thought absolutely true to life.
The true root of psychology disorder is the 'I' thought. Identification with the thoughts that arise is the root of suffering. 🙏🏼
The gentleness with which each member approaches the conversation, alternating between rapt listening/introspecting and soft interjections to put forth their points reflects the wisdom that each one of them carries. The ones who truly wish to learn are the ones who are learned
The security is already inside the individual therefore we don’t need to find it . We must feel it within ourselves . If we feel it we will be able to get an order in our lives (this is my conclusion after watching this excellent video) when we have order we can help others to have it too 😊sorry for my English grammar 😌
Not sure what led me to this but this is so much needed today, bring back Krishnamurti 😢 although our minds seem to be so far gone I can't imagine the majority of humanity being able to understand or relate to this anymore.
What a punch line my dear JKr gave us!
Incredible energy during this whole conversation. Thanks for uploading it!
A 38 year old discussion which is still relevant today...
Sure seems like time is circular, not linear.
Time as a concept is a result of ego
Yes it's relevant today, actually it's timeless it will remain relevant even after 100000 years because this is the "truth".
There is NO time , there Times
“Everything you've learned in school as "obvious" becomes less and less obvious as you begin to study the universe. For example, there are no solids in the universe. There's not even a suggestion of a solid. There are no absolute continuums. There are no surfaces. There are no straight lines.” bucky fuller.
@@joeh858 Maybe it's just our own brain and habits that categorize knowledge for easy storage. Measuring units, religions, color, ethnicities. I read about this a lil while back and it's very well said. We categorize stuff to store the knowledge for easier access, and time seems to fit in such category.
@Aek That's a whole other hour+ worth of conversation. I left school at 17, not sure if due to influence of the knowledge I gained, my personality/genes or a bit of both. But always looked at school, society and most groups in general as sheep. I know it sounds kinda arrogant, but I'm an open minded kid.
My simple view of today: Education is like an industry, never teaching you how to lead or find your way, but instead follow others. You spend how many years the government thinks you need to work in order to get 'retired', only for most of us to get there without cash, with body and/or mind all fuked up, and without having enjoyed shxt. You get the conditions you feel like are sufficient to reproduce, just like animals, without even realizing it (income, home (habitat) and what most see as stability: a job), with the number of offspring depending on income and ambience (countries, imo), but that doesn't mean you're living as supposed or could.
"No individual can ever have security because he is in himself divisive"
I am coming back to this great roundtable conversation among these beautiful beings for the 2nd time. Like any other JK's talk, it is comprise of many different layers and tracks. Each time you catch something that was missed the previous time. Wonderful!
Krishnamurti asks the deepest questions about the human experience. After each question I need to pause the video and let the question sink first before I can move on.
Deepest? I HOPE YOU ARE LESS THAN 18.
Wow amazing J. It is so beautiful, 55:42 - look at this mans face as he starts to understand at some point . Love, peace man
I could weigh your curiosity and feel that you were immersed ❤️❤️🙏🙏 like me🙏❤️❤️
You're interpreting.
He may have shook him up a bit. Lol
I like what JK is saying about how we are society, we are the world. We create society, we create conditioning. If we want to change the world we just have to change ourselves. I've recently been thinking if I can change my attitude I can change the world. Everything starts out as an idea before it becomes a thing. Think about anything you can see in the world, it all started as an idea. If we start with this idea that we can be free of problems, it's the only way to start a world in which that is possible. Once an idea enters our consciousness it becomes a possibility. This is why people think they manifest things, because it's the natural process of becomming.
The old man in the blue shirt is really deeply philosophical and insightful. He nicely continues to ask provocative but insightful questions. This is great to watch.
That old man is JK
Jk Sir English is so simple and mature so everyone from different countries can understand
I first heard of Krishnamurti through Bruce Lee. Bruce being a philosopher, he understood the individual is more important than any martial arts style. Great conversation. Going to part 2 now.
Krishnamurti in the role of Socrates - always asking, always searching for the truth. And young Rupert Sheldrake delivering such wise answers you didn't expect. This is amazing. A great deal of wisdom. For free.
This entire cosmos is such an ironic, sarcastic, lovely joke.
If we wouldn't listen to those teachers and just notice one simple fact that night and day are inseparable, we would just enjoy the whole show.
But no sir, we want the day and the sun forever.
Well, I want this and that but the night keeps coming, and last time I've checked, I could never stop it from happening.
JK is a blessing to those who have ears to listen.
Come on.. Joke? It's a play, a divine play, wherein One plays many! Don't subscribe to the play of many and the joke will be on you!
it's still not clear how can an individual explore and figure out without any help from a specialist. I have heard few of Krishnamurthy's talks. He has stressed upon the fact that an individual need not require a guru or a teacher. even if we consider individualism a theoretical , relative concept , it still does not provide sufficient emphasis on how the self indulgence can explore reality. There is a purpose as to why I am myself and not you (vice versa). if there was no individualism there would have been no purpose of the theoretical self.
Yes, and both day and night have their own beauty and place.
Both light and shadow make up the whole.
That's amazing to see a conversation without domination👌
This talks made me listen and also think , i wish I was sitting in the corner and listening to them in real life and just feel the air inside that room .😊
This is a real debate. It helps us to think with no hurry, with honest dedication. Thank you very much for sharing!
Este es un verdadero debate. Nos ayuda a pensar sin prisas, poniendo una dedicación verdaderamente honesta. ¡Muchas gracias por compartir!
These types of discussions these days are nowhere to be found.
I'm sure that global media can learn alot from this video about debate & discussion.
Jk is just questioning
It's weird how it seems like he's answering everything
Simply Awesome, To Record the whole conversation, preserving and later uploading on the CZcams platform for the whole Human Species is an Act in itself, Many Thanks for That.
Gratitude to All the Speakers is Beyond The Mind, All in their Best possible way of communication with the barriers of language sitting together to Lift the Whole Human Psyche to Higher Plane of Understanding....
Thanks so much for your extraordinary work , it's so important !
It's a deep discussion, not a debate ,
to reach answers, not to prove own points..that's the Beauty
Amazing. Simply amazing. This is what makes me and apparently dozens of other people think beyond our cultural and social barriers!
P.S. Krishnamurti's body language reminds me of Master Yoda! The way he turns and gestures and gives his attention!
When you realize that your being is completely inseparable from everything else....you are reflecting the light in all shapes and forms....
The funny thing with K is always that he has no patience what so ever while he is patient all the time! He is commitment incarnate (if you ask me).
How grateful I am to Krishnamurti, I can not even begin to describe. I remember even now, how I felt when I read JK for the first time.... goosebumps and OMG!
Essa entrevista é patrimônio do mundo !
He is God,,😊😊I never spend my day without listening to his videos 😊
I have been watching this discussion for more than once believe me we are so heavily conditioned that thought starts playing as soon as the video is over, but seriously what a wonderful discussion, a lot to learn, to observe without evaluating is knowing self.
One day i will come to this video. And say I have discovered something new in my myself which is beyond thought and space time
Absolutely appreciate this discussion.
Such a great and clear mind! A true master!
This is absolutely amazing, I found great respect for Krishnamurti after this.
Thanks for this prompt. After so many years, the question is still relevant. We need more of such discussions which leads to self inquiry, and finally if I am smart to do so, freedom .
Thank you Krishnamurti. You always share the loving source of it all. Humans are so in the mind.
I love the way he give space to questionnaire .. he is also concerned from their side simultaneously with his answers..
The problem is people think they cannot live without suffering. . . Choice is dead in most people.
this video is the answer of all cause and effect of all disorder,all root of disorder,and how to vanish it.thanks JK sir.
Thank You, love and kindness both do matter too!!
If someone asks me, have you ever benefited by CZcams , I will have one more example (although not a lot) to tell. Thank you J. Krishnamurti - Official Channel ..... :)
yes
Same here
If the vedio is old it must be good It doesn't matter what the topic is whether it be history or psychological or history or anything If that vedio is old or described by Some Of the most intelligent people it'll be worth watching
And I'm so grateful that I have CZcams to go to past ❤️🔥❤️
Yes me too feal dt
I bow down to Jiddu for such tremendous patience and compassion for those frozen structures around :)
He was an observer, while most of the others were specialized in a certain area. They're not frozen, they're just letting the knowledge sink in and thinking about the topics before answering. Krishna had a peculiar way to argument. He asks questions that require deep thought or barely have answers, making others seem 'oblivious', but that isn't what's happening, specially in this case, where they're all professionals and love knowledge.. None here present in the comments would be able to do better in a argument/debate with such a type of mind and questions.
@@DarkForceUbz why are you explaining to her? Let him find out by own 😂 now im talking like jj 😑
@@DarkForceUbzthey were all frozen except Bohm. Bohm is really a seeker, he was the man of real enquiry.
This discussion is Beauty 🥰🥰🥰
Unmatchable discussion. Beyond words. 🙏
I have started to prefer dialogues of K rather than monologues. These dialogues have a deeper level of enquiry. This might be because the others are deeply interested in it.
I agree completely. Krishnamurti & David Bohm's dialogues have always been my favorites. Bohm would agree with you too. He even developed a philosophy of dialogue known as Bohmian Dialogue.
It's about hearing everyone's perspective as valid and that agreement is not necessary or even conducive to understanding. Different viewpoints are essential for a deeper understanding of reality.
Either way if wisdom lies in any narrative, what good is it to the deaf and blind poet and the millions who live like him?
@@adamlane8751 The time every person takes part in the discussion should have been considered in his Bohmian Dialogue. I admire K but not his interruptions, or making monologues in the middle of a collective "discussion".
I've realized that I prefer dialogues to monologues in general. My thoughts are more profound and pregnant with idea's when I am dialoging with someone than when I am alone. I think this is the case for humanity in general. Others give us perspectives that open up mental doorways that wouldn't be opened up without them.
It is reassuring to see here that even when the scientists/psychologists exchange sceptical glances because of something that Krishnamurti said, they maintain mutual respect and return with a differently probing question, rather than giving way to indignation and so polluting the sanctity of the dialogue. I also found it refreshing that through a group effort, the dialogue is kept from straying away from the very essence of enquiry into a discussion of religious and social dogmas, which would've benefited no one.
People of this generation should listen this man more to understand the dishonest baba's who are lecturing stupid stuff all over.
Godd observation. I hate when people talk over each other during conversation in Indian Tvs.
This is Sheldrake's moment of first experiencing the truth about his own being. You can see the joy of inquiry in J. Krishnamurti's final question. What a beautiful question. Is there an abiding security so deep that it goes beyond all concepts, ideologies, and fabrications of language and society?
Thanks for this video. It’s a mine of gold. Un abrazo desde España
Look at the grace on The face of Dr. Bohm, so tranquil. If anyone understood what K talked about, It was him.
I'm so enjoying this conversation, I return to it every time, with about 5 years in between. When I heard Rupert Sheldrake talk about religious leaders, those who believe and teach that there's a possibility to move beyond the suffering human condition, (hopefully due to personal experience), it came to mind, that the presentation of an even higher placed "churchfather" namely God himself, has helped the lower positioned human churchfathers to be free of responsibility in a sense, let off the hook, because it was preached that God knew best, and that God was the ultimate redeemer. In this hierarchy, many branches grew on that tree of religions, causing human beings to live in fear for God's all seeing eyes.
The duality in consciousness, judging right and wrong, has compromised the efforts of the early religious leaders, perhaps, if they were compassionate.
And since it's a human condition to want to be praised, and found to be kind, just like the Bible orders, the churchfathers, and the ministers, vicars, priests, you name it, found a way out of judging members of the congregation on personal grounds, and pass judgement indirectly, by referring to God as the one who's got the final word. Isn't this the fate of religious institutes on planet Earth, where we all think in terms of right and wrong? It's a loop, a trap, a hopeless affair.
I'm the oldest daughter of a Calvinistic minister in Holland. I've seen this myself.
Amazing person J Krishnamurthi.
Wish I had come to know about you much earlier in my life.
Isn't it funny, in the comments here, there is so, soo much desire for conversations like this, and yet the mainstream media is still click bait titling, sensationalising etc etc...
What an utterly brilliant conversation, thank you so much for uploading.
Amazing talk; a true eye opener on how one should actually live through the ups and downs... wonder why this is not practiced by Psychologists these days?
" individual can never have that security. Cause he is in himself divisive "....what a marvellous statement....very profound discussion...thks for sharing this amazingvideo. I have read few books by him...i understand some of what he is saying verbally...but i dont know how to "look" or how to "lose" the self....he wouldn't or cant tell us as he said words can only go so far.. ..all i can do is keep trying keep feel it the best i can.....
Can you please describe the statement. ? 🙏
Like he said "I don't know is the beginning". Enquiry is the key.
"Keep trying" is also part of a process. But only the self is processing. Therefore there is no process.
So when you say "all I can do is keep trying" is keeping you closer from the self.
This discussion is so deep! Thanks for this video!
Thanks!
jiddu krishnamurti Big Man big soul
yes you are right
Amazing discussion, thanks for sharing so deeply.
Fascinating to see three great minds completely stumped by Krishnamurti's enquiry. He asks the fundamental questions that we are uncomfortable contemplating, because we are, by and large, completely bound by our mental constructs.
Great minds? Surprised because of lack of scientific thinking of K.
@@kezdotanulo9160 No need for scientific thinking. You don't need scientific thinking to understand the problems in your life.
If one isn't understanding J's words then it means they aren't listening carefully with a quiet mind. His words are crystal clear, people are so fixated in their own beliefs and thoughts that they can't see what he presents so aptly.
I like each of these bunch, but I had to laugh out so loud due to the invigorating, ego-blinding clarity of Krishnamurti's mental light that he shed on the conversation every now and then, grabbing the problems that occurred at their cores. Such a delight amongst the few truly serious conversations. Very much recommended. :) :) :)
They are going round in circles. I am an artist and suffering is the ground state of my ability to grow. I ask spirit for information and guidance and i am given pain in return and and as I learn my lessons the pain of that particular lesson goes away. Pain is my resistance to learning.
May be I am wrong . What l learnt studing was..
Budhya says.
The root of suffering is "trisna" Or thrust or desires..
Following the " Marga" ( way) takes you to " Nirvana" Or end of suffering.
Although Hinduism explains suffering in a slightly different way.
Pain and consciousness are two similar things.
No consciousness = no pain.
The more pain, the deeper you can develop your consciousness.
You can become a habitual artist and refine your craft in such a way that it becomes automatic. All your moves will become routines. You become a machine Great art can be made thus.
You can also become a machine that is broken. Great pain. There never will be routines. Everything you look at you will see as if you saw it for the first time. If you can grasp that in your art, great art can be made thus.
Pain or no pain, it doesn't matter; when you're dead the pain will be gone.
Spirit is illusion. All you have is the 'body', it is the substrate that makes up your world. It tells lies and illusions rise from it. Once you see through those lies, a great pain will fall upon you.
You don't need to learn all the time (although you memorize all the time) so if, in an ocean of bliss, you suffer at junctures then, that pain that points to what needs to be immediately taken care of, is fine.
Otherwise, constant pain, crying wolf, makes you lose your sense of priority and what to focus on.
Thank you for reminding us - it is fine to let the other side finish their sentence in a debate. This is a gem regardless of one's belief or point of view.
I just would say the discussion: EPIC!
an amazing editing ending the conversation as individual cannot have security on its own. it's collective society idea/dogma defines security. so its necessary to disregard the society.
29:39 JK broke down the conversation in binary which the physiologist never thought that way . So he said do you mind answering that question. It was a great time watching this video.
Very interesting Talk.
good to hear
AMAZING, THANK YOU 🙏
All answers Krishnamurti gave in the first minute already....the scientist wiped away instantly
It is not a competition, and they didnt get wiped away or embarresed themselves in any way. None of the four person sitting there did.
Hugely ahead of his time! The conclusion that the self centred approach leads to suffering is now testament to the results seen in various empathetic/loss of ego drugs and their results on depression and addiction.
"FACT" is always outside of time.
very useful discourse, thank you for posting
Just loved the flow of the discussion and the way JK moves the dialogue..