Today we take a look behind the scenes of the most expensive movie that never was; the ill-fated Tim Burton and Nic Cage superhero collaboration, Superman Lives.
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Maybe it is time for another one of those "shrink people to send them into a person to fix it" movies? The Drinker's liver would be "a wild ride" ... and his brain would be an overflow of lightning transporting ideas.
The only hell that liver will know is this life. There is nothing but a heavenly reward awaiting such a patient, hard working, silently suffering soon-to-be martyr.
Kevin Smith must have been angling for the paycheck with no real intention to get a movie made. His pick of Burton proves that. Kevin Smith was trolling from the start, likely when he first heard that they wouldn't let Superman fly. * UPDATE 6/29/23 * see below! Oldschool Superman does NOT fly. [Although this makes Burton an even worse choice to direct]
I was half expecting him to go on to say that they brought another writer on board who didn't like the choice of Tim Burton so he got Tim Burton fired.
You're not. Honestly I think this could have worked if Cage actually pulled out one hell of a performance as the man of steel and not overreact like usual.
I want to see it, and I've got a feeling that I'd enjoy it. I have no problem with Cage and I know he's a big fan, which is a good sign to me. From a fan to fans. I'd watch the sht out of it, and I bet my ass, it's better than the majority of stupid crap Hollyweirds have been filming for years now.
@@briangresty1398 there's no way that happened. They may have done some test scenes at best but no one commits to filming an entire movie and then cans it.
Michael Bay directing a Tim Burton script? Imagine all the explosions and utter chaos infused with Tim Burton's wackiness, it would have been a glorious incomprehensible mess. ;)
“ Grandson too his grandpa“ Grandpa .. how did the internet blow up in your time.. “grandpa “ well Jr .. there was this actor called Nicolas Cage and he was in a Superman movie.. !
@@TheOutlawMan It did decent box office but its budget was shockingly high. 170 million?! Where did they spend it?! The Matrix was less that 70 million. How is that possible?!
Johnny Depp would of not been any better. Because both of them are not manly enough to be superman. They both look like little weak beta males. A real superman should be 6 foot tall or so and weigh about 240 pounds with solid muscle, plus be athletic looking. No small necks either. Today's so called super hero's are weak little betas now, which is very laughable. Hell Dwayne The Rock Johnson would be the closet thing to a superman than those other guys. He has the masculine look with size. Accept i think the Rock is a little too tall to be superman though.
@@NeverTrustGovrnmentOrGlobalist nah, the new superman is alfa, he is fcking huge. In witcher he looks incredible, cant imagine anybody better than him. I dont like dc movies since dark knight series, but actor in superman is just great.
@@Everik-ct6pg True, his power was the ability to leap tall buildings in a single bound.........which gave the illusion of him flying when he was really jumping. Still, by this point it was well established that superman flies and wears his suit. For them to even make those suggestions for the movie was ridiculous and pure ignorance of the topic. The spider thing was just creepy lol.
No doubt. In today's world of woke bullshit, I could totally see them doing that - look at the New Warriors comic with the fat lady with the magical backpack. These people are already nuts.
Ever since then, the two were at odds. I remember a story about how Kevin jokingly threatened to sue Tim Burton for copyright infingement because the end of Burton's Planet of the Apes movie was similar to a parody Kevin Smith had produced. Everyone took it seriously and Burton basically called him trash.
"Superman was re-imagined into a broody, angsty, socially-awkward outsider"...In other words, he became like every other main protagonist in a Tim Burton film?
Fun fact: Jon Peters later produced a western called "Wild wild west". In case you are wondering why Will Smith had to fight a gaint robot spider - Peters wanted that spider in a movie no matter what 😅
“The guy they chose to write it had no experience with comic books and even less experience with the character” Disney execs: “write that down! Write that down!”
One of the saddest cases of "never made" is, in my opinion, the Miyazaki film about "Pippi Longstocking". He made concept art for it, went to Sweden to get a hang of how things looked, and even talked with Astrid Lindgren. She said no. He kept the drawings of Swedish towns for "Kiki's Delivery Service" as I recall. Lindgren later gave Canada the green light for their animated series. She said no to Miyazaki, but yes to Canada. The second most tragic movie never made is Guillermo del Toro's "At the Mountains of Madness", cancelled because the Wolfman-reboot flopping convinced the studio that Gothic horror was box office poison.
A ,,At the Mountains of Madness"Movie could be great.And while 99% of humanity would disagree, I found Wolfman quite entertaining despite its obvious flaws.
That's practically criminal. Miyazaki is a dreamweaver, he creates magical worlds. Why a children's author would not want him for a movie adaptation is beyond me.
@@lexprontera8325 Maybe Astrid Lindgren wasn´t fan of Miyazaki´s artstyle or scrip. Also one point which might have affected Lindgrens decision was that her friend Tove Jansson (Finnish author) had given her permission to make Moomin series (Moomin series 1969) in Japan to which she wasn´t satisfied at all. Next time when Tove Jansson gave her green light to make new Moomin animation series was 1988 which was first aired in 1990. Kiki´s delivery service was aired in 1989 so it kinda fits in picture.
To be fair Ghibli takes huge liberties with their adaptations. Howl's moving castle Vs. the book have very little in common IIRC. Maybe Lindgren did not want to greenlight an asaptation that would change the source material too much? Then again I'm biased since I'm swedish. Lindgren and her works are more or less canonized in this country.
Who knows? Time changes, and no people can become yes people. Not to mention, I don't believe Del Toro has forgotten about it. He waited a long time to make Pinocchio. So who knows?
Nick Cage as superman is so wrong I do not ever want to know what's going on in the mind of those who decided to try this. His face alone is enough for anyone with common sense to tell he's not the right actor for this role as edgy as you want it to be. Maybe as a Joker if we had to choose but not superman who (nearly)always looks perfectly handsome.
“Oooo hey Superman. I see y’all got them fancy new suit. Oh that is so shiny and fabulous! Anyway, I’m gonna need you to ‘do that thing’ later, my servos are just all messed up, gurl.” I still have nightmares from Solo: A Shit Warts “story”...
Actually, I often dream of the sequel that would include Nic Cage as Superman, George Clooney as Batman, and Keanu Reeves as John Constantine fighting a vengeful Thanagarian Snarebeast
Had it been made, it seems like it would've been "The Room" (2003) of Superhero movies....and then 15-20 years later someone could've made a "The Disaster Artist" (2017) type of movie about the making of "Superman Lives".
@@MrClassicmetal - Played by Nicholas Cage. I feel like it would have been too cringe to watch the whole thing in one sitting. Would have made a great Fear Factor episode.
Nah I feel bad for Kevin Smith, he finally gets his dream job but has to work with a fool of a producer (Chris Nolan actually banned Jon Peters from the set of Man Of Steel) and a snobby director who thinks he’s better than everyone else when in reality he is not all that.
So, John Peters wanted a Superman movie where he: 1. Doesn't fly 2. Wear the suit 3. Fights a giant spider in the finale Uh... isn't that basically the system they used for Smallville...?
And he's already a billionaire brat lol, this is how they keep the money amongst themselves. 😝 Like that would have happened with that face and that- talent- to some random with a different gene pool, last name, and family business.
@@voluntaryismistheanswer sure, HW is incestuous as hell and plenty of ppl get their gigs by who they know, but cage does have talent and made some great movies. he's usually just fun to watch and has the charisma to be the leading man. i get it, though, it's a real toss-up whether he would have made it without having *all* the advantages.
Warner Bros: "You know, most people don't know that Nicholas Cage was supposed to be Superman 20 years ago. Are we sure that we should include an extra long cameo in the Flash of him fighting the giant spider from that cancelled movie" Also Warner Bros: *NAH IT'LL BE FINE*
What makes this even funnier is that the most popular video related to cage playing supes is this critical drinker video. Meaning the execs at WB probably saw this video and decided to make it into live action
Reminds me of that Gilbert Godfried joke: (Squinting and putting the blue card to his forehead like Johnny Carson): "Christopher Walken..." (Then proceeds to read the card): "Things you won't see in the Reeve's household".
“Since it’s fun to look back at Hollywood’s most embarrassing failures...” You mean three-quarters of the films they’ve produced for the last few years?
I must have missed the quarter of films that weren't complete shit. The only film that seemed decent was Joker. Still haven't seen it but it is the only one that even slightly interests me.
Really fucking weird because either just stumbled onto another comment 2 videos ago mentioning heavens gate as a nightmare film, and literally over the weekend I stumbled on a new word three times in a day, after learning the fun (supposed) fact "if you don't hear a new word/thing 3 times in a XX(i think they usually just say 24 hours) then you'll completely forget that word/thing until it comes up again"(and I have no clue how they prove that, and tbh I'm not even sure which word it was that stood out to me lol) Guess I kinda disproved the whole thing, but really weird stumbling on basically the same comment in totally different places.
Why not. After her fifth pregnancy she settles down as Wonder Mum not knowing, that her husband is an evil genius about to conquer the world. When she realizes, shes is going to use a housewives means (lots of kitchen tools) to bring him down and drag him to a marriage therapist. It turns out the therapist is the true mastermind behind all evil (have to serve some cliches) and makes the husband to kill himself to get rid of a witness. Out of frustration Wonder Mum is eating her six children, while watching Super Dad vs. Bat Dad.
"Reeve was too old by this point and a tragic accident had left him paralyzed from the neck down." I like how being too old was still the primary concern
Kevin Smith died to me when he reviewed Star Wars, and called Rose's "thats how we are going to win...not fighting what we hate, but saving what we love" a beautiful line.
Yep, Kevin Smith is a joke nowadays. He's a Disney and IMDB shill who's days of making good movies are long over. The Jay and Silent Bob reboot was sad and pathetic.
Kevin shouldn't have cast his buds for chasing Amy. If he would've went with Drew Barrymore, John Stewart and David schwimmer, I think his stock would have went in a different direction. Now, he cries over every star wars or comic book scene in a movie or television show.
@@fattiger6957 like when he bought an actual t rex skull to put in his castle, I think it was also around the time when he married that 18 yr old waitress.
That bit about fighting a spider in the finale - Jon Peters had an obsession with putting a giant mechanical spider at the end of his films, and he eventually got his way in Wild Wild West
I read the Kevin Smith script that was leaked online in the late 90s/early 2000's. It was actually a really, reallly good script. It had to have been the undoctored version though because he flew wore the costume and everything.
@@muddashucka9743 ah jeez it was a print out from a website at least twenty years ago. It started with a Superman taking down deadshot after he tries to assassinate the mayor and then getting evidence that Lex Luthor was behind it it. When his XRay vision hits the evidence it somehow destroys the evidence but let's Superman know he was behind it. Lex has a funny joke about a law to outlaw Superhumans passing so he can legally shoot superman's "Pajama clad ass out of the sky, legally" Lex's big plan was a way to block out yellow sunlight from reaching earth slowly draining Superman's powers... It may have been Brainiac whom was working his way to earth that did it. But Brainiac unleashed a creature, which all but is Doomsday and Superman is killed fighting him. Funeral and sad Metropolis, the sun filter and Brainiac lead to riots in Metro and Gotham. Batman cameos and says basically "Sorry Metro, I can't help you." Superman's ship that brought him to earth turns out to be a sentient machine that morphs into Super Suit and carries his body back to the fortress. Apparently he recovers and the fortress tries to charge his body with yellow sun energy but it's slow going as he can only charge his power in small amounts due to his near death state. Earth is being routed by Brainiac whom he confronts in the ship suit, that mimics all of his abilities. They didn't outright say it but I got John Henry Irons vibes out of it. Anyway, supes fights and destroys Brainiac after fighting his way to space to get past the yellow sun blocker. I can't remember exactly how it ends but I actually liked it. I'm not the biggest Kevin Smith fan but the dude can write a good story when he isn't crushing childhoods.
John Peters: "Let's see. . . Super Man can't fly and can't wear his costume. Uhhhh. . . we need a giant spider somewhere. . . Let's have a robot dog, aaaaand gay R2D2 with *attitude.* There we go. Yes! I'm a genius!" I'm totally not taking the piss. This will be a beloved classic in no time.
@@robertfitzgerald3118 Who also thinks he's a tough guy streetfighter who bullies his underlings. I saw the Superman Lives documentary and Peters seems like the biggest dbag in the world.
@@noble14 Yeah, you need a bit of an ego. But Peters is the kind of dbag who bullies people because he knows they can't fight back. If he was a normal person in a normal job, he would have been fired and/or gotten his ass kicked. Watch the doc. It is disgusting how this guy acted.
@@fattiger6957 aight, I'll check it out. I've noticed similar from alot of directors and even actors, it's like they think their shit doesn't stink and that makes them kings.
The greatest tragedy in Superman's cinematic legacy was the wasted potential of Henry Cavill. That man was put on this earth to play the part of Superman and they gave him one garbage script after another... what a shame, what a waste.
Yeah, even MOS could have been green if Snyder had actually understood what "Superman Earth One" was all about. Instead, he just copied some scenes and randomly threw them in a script.
@@genox3636 bruh Hugh Jackman is the worst example he got some of the best treatment by Fox and he was the main character of the x men franchise. And he was in 7 movies where he got a big role
I personally think man of steel was a banging movie. One of the best action films I’ve ever seen. When superman and Zod were fighting it actually felt like two gods were beating the shit out of each other on screen
I've watched that *"The Death of Superman Lives"* documentary couple times now. Pretty damn interesting, and the concept art and designs were definitely interesting.
What worries me is knowing that little has changed within DC/Warner, they still don't understand the IPs they have. Like the case of the person responsible for the special effects of one of the Superman films having to explain to one of the top executives that Superman does not need the cape to fly.
That's cause studios are run by businessmen, not creatives. Bob Iger only got lucky with Marvel having Kevin Fiege. Without Fiege, the MCU would have looked the garbage Marvel movies that preceded it (Fantastic 4, Ghost Rider, Dare Devil, etc)
The book 'Superman Vs. Hollywood' has a fascinating description of this "movie's" troubled writing process. "...as soon as 'Kal-El,' Superman's Kryptonian name, escaped (Kevin) Smith's lips, (Jon) Peters blurted out 'Who's Kal-El?'" Oof.
Patty Jenkins with Wonder Woman. Another director who has no experience with comic books or with the character. They haven't learned their lesson at all.
@@DeadlyDanDaMan there are barely any people in Hollywood who read comics as children or have experience with a specific character. Very few. You can't expect a comic reader who just happens to be a writer or director in hollywood. All you can expect are good writers period.
Anyone remember when Madtv did the sketch “Leaving Metropolis” where they had Nic Cage playing an alcoholic Superman? *Superman enters AA meeting in full costume* Superman: hi, I’m Clark Kent, and I’m an alcoholic Everyone: Hi, Superman! Superman: Superman?! How’d you...*looks down* Oh f**k!!! Superman
@@Paulafan5 There were a whole lot of scenes in Spider-Man 2 where people see him without his mask, and that's considered to be a contender for the greatest superhero movie ever made.
So Superman had to go through therapy, deal with a relationship the whole movie, and use a suit after he loses his powers? Are you sure this isn’t Wonder Woman 1984?
I don't know anything about that shit movie but I remember Diana losing her powers in the seventies doing the Avengers schtick in the increasingly irrelevant COMIC BOOKS..
"Superman can't fly" Ok, no. "He can never appear in costume." Ok... no. "He has to fight a giant spider monster." Well, maybe. "He has to have a sassy robotic assistant like a gay r2d2 with attitude." You're a horrible writer and no one should ever work for you.
@@jekblom123 The first time superman was depicted as a flying being, was a mistake by a new artist on issue #10 who assumed that the ability to fly was in his skillset because depictions of him leaping through the air made it look like he was flying. He didn't fly again until the mid 1940's, so honestly we should have seen a superman movie where he can't fly. Not that I really care, I think Superman has always been a pretty lame superhero compared to most others
That honestly sounds like they were intentionally torpedoing the project. When Superman 4 the quest for peace looks better than your project someone at the top needs to get canned.
"Could Nick Cage play an alien struggling to fit into human society...?" "ABSOLUTELY. He's been doing it his whole LIFE". OMG I about died with this...🤣
That was a beautiful statement because it's so true. And I say that as a Nic Cage fan. He's one of the few actors that can be in a terrible movie and still be incredibly entertaining.
If the current writers at DC Comics were in charge of the movies, that would probably happen. Either her or that black lady who was also in Ghostbusters 2016.
@Luc Germain Lol, compare post-n52 to what it was before. Alan Scott is randomly gay. Wally West is randomly black. Power Girl gets a replaced by a black mary-sue with a much more modest outfit. Batman gets a lesbian, and two black sidekicks added to his already bloated family. Batgirl becomes an annoying sjw. They humiliate Lex Luthor in the Superwoman book and say he just stole everything from his sister. DC publishes Gotham High and I am Not Starfire, woke garbage that appeals to no one. Those are just the things I can think of from the top of my head. Yeah, Marvel might be worse, but DC is sure as hell not innocent in their own demise.
@@diegohaung2831 Marvel's ramp up to woke garbage was much faster and stronger, but DC has still gone woke. They had a chance to course correct with DC Rebirth, but they went right back to woke trash afterwards.
The death of Superman was the worst of the 3 death of Superman comics(Whatever happened to the man of tomorrow & All Star Superman): Not him fight with his most iconic enemy, not him tying up all the loose end leaving a legacy for the future,... but some guy we never met(Doomsday) whom backstory is only told AFTER his fight with Sup is finished, suddenly show up beat Sup to death. The best part of it was Sup's funeral & every hero tried to fill his shoes(symbolize by the fact that it took a bunch of them to lift his Key to The Fortress of Solitude)
@@qty1315 He also didn't die in Whatever happened to the Man Of Tomorrow. But somehow both story handled his "death"(disappear from the world) better than The Death Of Superman
@@aokhoinguyenang3992 I think him getting killed by a total unknown enemy was part of the message the story was trying to get across.Superman dominated his enviroment and even his most sworm enemies were subdued,but as happens in life,disaster can come from even the most impropable places.Personally,I liked his death arc,from a story point of view.But I'm not a fan of his,so I can get your frustration. I do agree however that bringing him back a dozen or two issues later was a dick move and certainly undone the impact the storyline had or could have had.So much for artistic integrity.
@@aokhoinguyenang3992 Personally, I thought that his death was handled pretty well in Death Of Superman. A random twist of fate takes him away from us, just like how most of us will likely die. It feels kinda real in a way that a noble sacrifice preceded by a monologue doesn't. It also introduced Doomsday, who has become a very iconic and interesting character. My issue is that, by resurrecting him and basically making Superman immortal, it basically set a precedent for death not mattering in comics ever again. You can't have people take a story called The Death Of Batman seriously anymore because of how Superman's death was handled.
I wouldn't mind seeing Drinker tackling "Superman IV", and the other Superman Films. I'm a big fan of the history of those films, and the character. Plus, Superman is my guy!
They should have gone with Bruce Campbell as Superman, directed by Terry Gilliam in a rich Art Deco setting. A quirky F. Murray Abraham as Lex Luthor, Sandra Bullock or Rosie MacDowell as Lois Lane and I bet it would have fu(king rocked.
I've stopped watching Superman when the 3D version came out. I had seen enough Louis and Clark by then and I already knew that 3D was gonna tank. Reason why is cause I've been to a 3D based movie themepark before in France (Futurescope) years before 3D got popular. The entire family came out totally sick, headaches and nauseated. Reason I learned a year after that during my optometry study. Basically you overstretch your accommodation muscles creating these sickness feelings. Even back then which was still a couple of years before the 3D tv push it was already known in the scientific world that it was gonna be a clusterfuck, but they invested so much into 3D that they were gonna push it through anyhow. It's why I never bought a 3D tv back then.
Just the Supergirl "Superman". The trailer for Superman and Lois looks promising, I heard it had HBO-max budget/help/writers -or something, but it's likely going to be preachy with politics, but maybe they'll learn. After Reeves, Dean Cain/Lois and Clark was good. A bit of metrosexualization for the time, women ramping up and stuff, but Clark had the home town farm life etc. and it wasn't so bad. The first show to use Kryptonite-infected/enhanced people, and the first to produce "super speed" on camera for the first time. Smallville then was paramount, amazing, had C Reeves/Margot Kidder/old cast in cameos - filled in the gaps of the C Reeve stories in clever ways, and I had no issues with that. Man of Steel was amazing, the "batman begins" real world version of Superman. Not blind hope/optimism, but "how would the world react today" - and real world consequences with Zod etc. I had no issues. Dawn of Justice (extended cut/extra half hour) was an excellent Batman movie, with the warehouse fight being the best Batman fight on screen (intelligence, all gadgets use, uses a grappling gun to pull a guy in for a hook punch, uses the samurai arm guards to take on 4 knife wielding guys at once etc.) - excellent Batman movie, not so much a Superman movie, but the extended cut makes it flow better, and it's a fun blockbuster to watch. JL was not good. No GL or MM, and WW has a solo bank scene - even though she has her own movie, and you see 2 seconds of the Flash solo scene etc., and Superman - a leader - is in the last half hour. Yes, The Supergirl Superman is that, but all the others aren't bad in my opinion. Superman Returns even had it's fun moments, and "Clark" was really no different. The Airplane in Baseball field, bullet to the eye - a fun blockbuster with a hero you like, not so much an in depth Shawshank Redemption type.
The very reason for the death of superman was the family were in court with DC over the likeness rights to superman - and DC fully expected to loose; that's why they killed superman, and set up a handful of 'supermen' to be reborn; it was insurance in case they lost the red & blue. Either electric or steel supermen would have just taken center stage...
@@arkenmint9030 I'm not sure about that explanation. Had DC lost ownership to Superman, they still could have licensed the use of the character from the Siegal and Shuster families. And if they couldn't get the license, they wouldn't have been able to even use the name Superman, Clark Kent, Lois Lane, Metropolis, Superboy or anything the original two creators invented.
"Could Nick Cage play an alien struggling to fit into human society? Absolutely, he's been doing it his whole life!" ... This shit put me in tears; your linguistic ability knows no bounds Drinker.
The only time he showed somewhat of an attitude was cut out of ESB. He took the warning sign off of the locked door to a room filled with a herd of wampas. Stormtroopers ran into it and the wampas had a snack.
Thanks. The way you describe the film making process and the negative influence of money, egos, and incompetence, it's a wonder that every Hollywood movie isn't a "Superman Lives."
Drinker, I thank you starting this Production Hell series. I love hearing the production side of things for all things film and especially love to hear 'development hell' stories as one might hope they could serve as warnings for future productions. Cheers!
Superman is wholesome and stable. He isn't struggling with 'his humanity.' He knows who he is, what he's feeling, what his mission is and why. He's the best of us. That's what makes him so enduring. Adam West batman has probably the best rogues gallery in film history and was brilliantly cast. It was a TV program aimed at children, after all.
You could try tying the "struggling with his humanity" in with him learning his powers and figuring out what he wanted to do with his life and powers, but honestly, that's still a stretch and should only last a short time if it did happen.
@@onyxrose4349 the writers project their imorality on the character and call it 'edgy" or "a modern take" or worse still, a "reimagining..." and you see what's in their imaginations. Clark Kent is not Tony Stark, "struggling" with drunkeness, arrogance and dubious moral choices. He is a simple, small town man that knows right from wrong and chooses right, that's who mild-mannered Clark Kent is. As Superman, Clark uses his powers to do good. Goodness is what makes him extraordinary, not the superpowers.
Honestly it would have been interesting to see N.C. as Superman. Henrill Cavill had the charisma of a barnacle in man of steel. He has gotten better with age and you can tell in the Witcher. From what I saw of the glass helmeted alien, it looks like he might have fought brainiac. That would have been really cool.
9:38 regarding no reference to the debacle in Superman Returns. That is incorrect. There was actually a nod to Superman Lives. Superman had saved the world from Lex Luthor's Kryptonite plot and had fell to earth. They weren't sure if he was going to live or die. There was a scene in which Perry White had two versions of the newspaper for the following day on his desk. He had One paper with the headline "Superman is Dead" and the other "Superman Lives" Not much of a reference but it was a reference to it.
I remember seeing a Kevin Smith interview on this and he was talking about the dude's fixation on the giant spider, which ended up being in the very forgettable Wild Wild West movie
Seen that film a few years back and it's more fun than people credit it for. The scene where Will Smith meets the villain and they start insulting each other with quips about him being a cripple and Will being black is something you probably won't see in films today and it's hilarious.
black coffee, dark south etc - great quipping. I actually enjoy it, knowing it would be cringe. I purposely watch shit films just for the "what the fuck were they thinking"
I remember seeing a fan trailer for Superman Lives that someone uploaded to CZcams a few years ago. There’s no doubt it would’ve been a train wreck but I still kind of wish it had happened.
One of the most memorable aspects of Burton's Batman movies is the dark, monolithic depiction of Gotham City, as envisioned by Anton Furst and Bo Welch. I remember, upon first seeing Coruscant in *Star Wars: The Phantom Menace* , I thought to myself that had Burton made his Superman movie, this is what Metropolis would look like.
Burton's Gotham is dark and dilapidated with an pseudo industrial look mixed with the art deco. Metropolis isn't supposed to be dark and dirty. It's art deco, but mixed with futurism. Since he was a fan of German expressionism, maybe Burton would have pulled from Metropolis (the silent film) but Gotham isn't really a evidence that his Metropolis would have been good.
Kevin Smith - Here's a film pitch. Studio - Great, now can you change it completely and disregard the character? Kevin Smith - Sure, I guess. Oh classic studio meddling.
3:40 Kevin Smith's involvement has aged brilliantly as of just recently (see MOTUR). And I promise that I merely came here for a good laugh at a production hell episode and completely forgot about this bit of history.
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I am such an asshole to the point where I love your content and love that drinker voice.
That i am still lazy to donate money
@@JewishFrog ma ma ma ma ma ma ma
How many of you guys want to the drinker do anime reviews every Wednesday and which Anime do you want to the drinker review?
@@vinzingerakaelotakuakatheweebp I don't want to see porn
Attack on Titan per Season
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All the UC and Alternate Universe Gundam Anime
Production Hell: The Drinker's Liver
I thought he had no liver.
Maybe it is time for another one of those "shrink people to send them into a person to fix it" movies? The Drinker's liver would be "a wild ride" ... and his brain would be an overflow of lightning transporting ideas.
I don't always upvote comments, but when I do, it's for the epic one.
The only hell that liver will know is this life. There is nothing but a heavenly reward awaiting such a patient, hard working, silently suffering soon-to-be martyr.
THE DRINKER RECOMENDs: dialysis
So Kevin Smith was hired to rewrite the script. He recommend Tim Burton as the director. Then Tim Burton had Kevin fired 😂
Kevin Smith must have been angling for the paycheck with no real intention to get a movie made. His pick of Burton proves that.
Kevin Smith was trolling from the start, likely when he first heard that they wouldn't let Superman fly.
* UPDATE 6/29/23 * see below! Oldschool Superman does NOT fly. [Although this makes Burton an even worse choice to direct]
basically yes but the studio saw the success of Batman and themselves thought it was a good idea
omfg lol
I was half expecting him to go on to say that they brought another writer on board who didn't like the choice of Tim Burton so he got Tim Burton fired.
Burton was not a good fit for supes
Bad move smith!!
Kevin Smith, eternally dressed up as a goalie.
He fits right in with "considered edgy and cool in the 1990's, now just looks dated and dumb"
@@mattyboyanderson Pretty much. But honestly, he was pretty bad then, too.
Totally.
Its a no for nic cage , but he was great in raising Arizona , and that was the last time
I can't be the only one who wishes this was actually filmed, sat in a vault for 28 years and then just got released. Imagine the scenes.
You're not. Honestly I think this could have worked if Cage actually pulled out one hell of a performance as the man of steel and not overreact like usual.
I want to see it, and I've got a feeling that I'd enjoy it. I have no problem with Cage and I know he's a big fan, which is a good sign to me. From a fan to fans. I'd watch the sht out of it, and I bet my ass, it's better than the majority of stupid crap Hollyweirds have been filming for years now.
I used to do comic cons in 1999, 2000.....This movie was a constantly topic...rumor had it that this movie WAS FILMED then shelved.
@@briangresty1398 there's no way that happened. They may have done some test scenes at best but no one commits to filming an entire movie and then cans it.
@@matthewnicholas6365 I don’t know WB seems like they enjoy that
"This is the reason why Melissa McCarthy is not playing Wonder Woman"
DON'T GIVE THEM IDEAS
Exactly what I though!
Another queef joke as she takes off into the sky
Wonder how woman so faaat #mild asian sneer
It will never happen, not diverse enough. Whoopie Goldberg will be next Wonder woman.
As long as they make sure that Poochie is in it
Michael Bay directing a Tim Burton script? Imagine all the explosions and utter chaos infused with Tim Burton's wackiness, it would have been a glorious incomprehensible mess. ;)
I want Zack Snyder as co-director, have the set look dark and depressing and the actors give their wacky dialogue in a straight or dour tone.
@@leeshang6419 with random distorted explosions going off in the background.
Megan fox would play both lois lane & Martha Kent
Maybe it's not to late. They can get the script, cast Shia Lebeouff as Superman, Pee Wee Herman as the spider and let Bay direct... Rotflmao
I won't be happy until I see Godzilla surfing a tsunami on an aircraft carrier in one of these movies one day
The idea of Michael Bay turning down a script because it was bad is wonderfully hilarious.
Cage: "i gotta go"
No one: "save the world?"
Cage: "i have to fly to DC to steal the declaration of independence "
Now that's method acting!
Yea, but the was a good movie
Hehe “fly to DC”
“Quick man - cling tenaciously to my buttocks!!”
Can you imagine the amount of Nic Cage memes this would've generated had they manage to make this movie?
“ Grandson too his grandpa“ Grandpa .. how did the internet blow up in your time.. “grandpa “ well Jr .. there was this actor called Nicolas Cage and he was in a Superman movie.. !
Dodged a bullet here
It would have birthed an encyclopedia of Nick Cage memes.. With the risk of imploding the internet.
Worse then Nic cage as Neo in The Matrix
Perhaps we narrowly avoided the Meme Singularity, where memes consume the entire universe.
...and then Jon Peters produced Wild Wild West.
"He got his damn giant spider." - Kevin Smith
And it's no surprise that movie flopped.
And in man of steel there was a polar bear and superman punched a giant robot spider. Think peters had production credit
@@fattiger6957 Did it? I fuckin love that stupid movie
@@TheOutlawMan It did decent box office but its budget was shockingly high. 170 million?! Where did they spend it?! The Matrix was less that 70 million. How is that possible?!
@@TheOutlawMan Dude same here haha back when Will Smith made songs for his movies.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Burton wanted to fire Cage and replace him with Johnny Depp
Hey a young Johnny on Roids might have been a cool super man.
Ha ha, and Helena Bonham Carter as Lois.
Burton: "She went through the audition process just like any other actor!"
Me: Yeah right!
With danny elfman for the soundtrack
Johnny Depp would of not been any better. Because both of them are not manly enough to be superman. They both look like little weak beta males. A real superman should be 6 foot tall or so and weigh about 240 pounds with solid muscle, plus be athletic looking. No small necks either. Today's so called super hero's are weak little betas now, which is very laughable. Hell Dwayne The Rock Johnson would be the closet thing to a superman than those other guys. He has the masculine look with size. Accept i think the Rock is a little too tall to be superman though.
@@NeverTrustGovrnmentOrGlobalist nah, the new superman is alfa, he is fcking huge. In witcher he looks incredible, cant imagine anybody better than him. I dont like dc movies since dark knight series, but actor in superman is just great.
Giant spider story totally real. He ended up producing Wild Wild West and required the giant spider.
I think it was mentioned in an interview that he had a fetish for spiders.
The World Engine in Man of Steel is an inside joke to Smith about the giant spider idea.
Yes, watch An Evening with Kevin Smith and he tells the whole story, giant spider and all.
Ah yes, the "Wild Wild West" film. Yet ANOTHER travesty upon a classic and fantastic series that The Drinker needs to do a critical analysis on.
@mewtwoy I bet he has a bodypillow of her hidden somewhere in his home.
1. no flying
2. no suit
3. he needs to save Louis from a spider
4. we're just going to call him "Man"
Man lives.
Tbf Superman didn't fly at first, he only got that power because it was easier to animate in the Fleischer cartoon.
Nicolas Cage Man
Louis? Gosset Jr?
@@Everik-ct6pg True, his power was the ability to leap tall buildings in a single bound.........which gave the illusion of him flying when he was really jumping. Still, by this point it was well established that superman flies and wears his suit. For them to even make those suggestions for the movie was ridiculous and pure ignorance of the topic. The spider thing was just creepy lol.
"That's why we don't see Melissa Mcarthy as wonder woman" don't give them ideas drinker
Netflix is giving Hollyweird ideas with her next film “Thunder Force.” Good God make the madness stop!
I hear she is playing the fat jedi in the high republic.
No doubt. In today's world of woke bullshit, I could totally see them doing that - look at the New Warriors comic with the fat lady with the magical backpack. These people are already nuts.
Now that it's out there, it'll happen
They are considering Leslie Jones
I can't help but feel bad for Kevin Smith here. The guy he recommends comes in, gets him fired and throws his script in the trash.
Ever since then, the two were at odds. I remember a story about how Kevin jokingly threatened to sue Tim Burton for copyright infingement because the end of Burton's Planet of the Apes movie was similar to a parody Kevin Smith had produced. Everyone took it seriously and Burton basically called him trash.
This aged poorly
@@magicjohnson3121 Indeed😂
@@magicjohnson3121 why did it?
Bet you don't feel that bad about Kevin now.
It's incredible that kevin Smith still find clothing 3 times his actual size.
The man loves his hockey jerseys...
... I mean, it's easier now.
I mean he lost a ton of weight, a 3xl is probably 3x his size now intsead of a 6xl.
"Superman was re-imagined into a broody, angsty, socially-awkward outsider"...In other words, he became like every other main protagonist in a Tim Burton film?
He was basically a self insert.
Well, it is close to Christopher Reeve's Clark Kent...which worked good as a diguise.
@@user-xx6vy9ri8p he wasn't broody or angsty, just nerdy
"I'm not like other girls." - Tim Burton
Sounds like classic self insert. That's how he sees himself.
Nic Cage is such a big fan of Superman that he even named his son Kal-El.
That can't be...Oh my god, it's true!
So did I!
Kal-El Mack
@@mackinblack that's pretty sweet
I actually think it's a good name
Not as bad as Trent Reznor. He named 2 of his sons Balthazar and Lazarus Echo.
Remember when Kevin Smith was considered a "talented writer"? Ahh those were the days.
Cause he is, just not with this kind of material... Clerks is supreme social commentary.
@@MasterBetty69 I think he's good with social commentary stuff, but not fantasy.
Fun fact: Jon Peters later produced a western called "Wild wild west". In case you are wondering why Will Smith had to fight a gaint robot spider - Peters wanted that spider in a movie no matter what 😅
"Could Nic Cage play a fucking alien struggling to fit into human society? Absolutely, he's been doing it his whole life." lmfao
I read this comment at the exact same time it was said in the video
He could speak with a fake Forrest Gump-esque Southern accident like he did during the opening scene of "Con-Air"!
“The guy they chose to write it had no experience with comic books and even less experience with the character”
Disney execs: “write that down! Write that down!”
Kathleen Kennedy and her Story Team in general.
Did you mean CBS?
Or CW.
*hated the characters
Dr. Who would like a consult.
For better or for worse, the world needed this movie.
I definitely would love to see this film. Too bad it never happened, unlike the total garbage Hollywood tends to produce in recent years...
But is it the film we deserved?
true!
the world needs nick cage as lex luthor, not superman.
One of the saddest cases of "never made" is, in my opinion, the Miyazaki film about "Pippi Longstocking". He made concept art for it, went to Sweden to get a hang of how things looked, and even talked with Astrid Lindgren. She said no. He kept the drawings of Swedish towns for "Kiki's Delivery Service" as I recall.
Lindgren later gave Canada the green light for their animated series.
She said no to Miyazaki, but yes to Canada.
The second most tragic movie never made is Guillermo del Toro's "At the Mountains of Madness", cancelled because the Wolfman-reboot flopping convinced the studio that Gothic horror was box office poison.
A ,,At the Mountains of Madness"Movie could be great.And while 99% of humanity would disagree, I found Wolfman quite entertaining despite its obvious flaws.
That's practically criminal. Miyazaki is a dreamweaver, he creates magical worlds. Why a children's author would not want him for a movie adaptation is beyond me.
@@lexprontera8325
Maybe Astrid Lindgren wasn´t fan of Miyazaki´s artstyle or scrip.
Also one point which might have affected Lindgrens decision was that her friend Tove Jansson (Finnish author) had given her permission to make Moomin series (Moomin series 1969) in Japan to which she wasn´t satisfied at all. Next time when Tove Jansson gave her green light to make new Moomin animation series was 1988 which was first aired in 1990. Kiki´s delivery service was aired in 1989 so it kinda fits in picture.
To be fair Ghibli takes huge liberties with their adaptations. Howl's moving castle Vs. the book have very little in common IIRC.
Maybe Lindgren did not want to greenlight an asaptation that would change the source material too much?
Then again I'm biased since I'm swedish. Lindgren and her works are more or less canonized in this country.
Who knows? Time changes, and no people can become yes people. Not to mention, I don't believe Del Toro has forgotten about it. He waited a long time to make Pinocchio. So who knows?
"Could Nick Cage play a fucking alien struggling to fit into human society? Absolutely, he's been doing it his whole life". What an awesome line
Nick Cage as superman is so wrong I do not ever want to know what's going on in the mind of those who decided to try this.
His face alone is enough for anyone with common sense to tell he's not the right actor for this role as edgy as you want it to be.
Maybe as a Joker if we had to choose but not superman who (nearly)always looks perfectly handsome.
@@sebastienj.c.218 "But Nic Cage is cool and edgy!"
@@sebastienj.c.218 If it's an any consultation, even Nick Cage himself has gone on to say it was a bad idea.
@@pepperedash4424 xD They probably replied by showing him a 20 million dollar contract to see if he was sure about that.
@@sebastienj.c.218 This was after production had ended, and I'm just paraphrasing.
“A gay R2D2 with attitude” with a concept like that I can’t see how this film could of possibly failed
They were ahead of their time
"A gay R2D2 with attitude" so C3PO in a bin
The funny thing is that already exists it’s call c-3po
“Oooo hey Superman. I see y’all got them fancy new suit. Oh that is so shiny and fabulous! Anyway, I’m gonna need you to ‘do that thing’ later, my servos are just all messed up, gurl.”
I still have nightmares from Solo: A Shit Warts “story”...
The more things change the more they stay the same I guess..
You forgot the one thing that actually came to fruition. John Peters finally got his damn spider when he produced Wild Wild West!
Actually, I often dream of the sequel that would include Nic Cage as Superman, George Clooney as Batman, and Keanu Reeves as John Constantine fighting a vengeful Thanagarian Snarebeast
That sounds amazing in both the best and worse ways
Dont forget the "gay r2d2" somewhere in there too
This looks like the best, worst movie never made.
🤐Best/Worst🙉
Had it been made, it seems like it would've been "The Room" (2003) of Superhero movies....and then 15-20 years later someone could've made a "The Disaster Artist" (2017) type of movie about the making of "Superman Lives".
That honor belongs to Pacific Rim
Superman with long hair and a receding hairline...😁
@@MrClassicmetal - Played by Nicholas Cage. I feel like it would have been too cringe to watch the whole thing in one sitting. Would have made a great Fear Factor episode.
The only one I feel bad for throughout this production is Nickolas Cage. He just wanted to play the Man of Steel.
Yeah I guess those 20 million dollars comforted him well.
@@mattgee4867 Fair enough...
@@mattgee4867 But did he even get the 20 million? I mean he left production, they didn't shut it down.
Nah I feel bad for Kevin Smith, he finally gets his dream job but has to work with a fool of a producer (Chris Nolan actually banned Jon Peters from the set of Man Of Steel) and a snobby director who thinks he’s better than everyone else when in reality he is not all that.
I mean he is a good actor in his own right, it would be interesting how he would pull of the role as superman.
So, John Peters wanted a Superman movie where he:
1. Doesn't fly
2. Wear the suit
3. Fights a giant spider in the finale
Uh... isn't that basically the system they used for Smallville...?
I don’t remember the giant spider in smallville.
Best Cameo in The Flash
"Superman visits a therapist"
So a feature length Family Guy cut away gag then.
Eesh, family guy cut aways last too long sometimes as is.
Just change Clark Kent to Clarky Soprano and he can spend half the movie in therapy and we can pretend to believe it and not be bored.
Or how the Flash was the fastest man alive. His wife left him.
Out of those 30 million, 20 went to Nic Cage's pocket and he didn't shoot a single frame. Fucking insane.
And he's already a billionaire brat lol, this is how they keep the money amongst themselves. 😝 Like that would have happened with that face and that- talent- to some random with a different gene pool, last name, and family business.
@@voluntaryismistheanswer Yup, Hollywood is an intensely incestuous place.
"Consider THAT debt ... repaid, Mr Coppola."
@@voluntaryismistheanswer sure, HW is incestuous as hell and plenty of ppl get their gigs by who they know, but cage does have talent and made some great movies. he's usually just fun to watch and has the charisma to be the leading man. i get it, though, it's a real toss-up whether he would have made it without having *all* the advantages.
@@manlymcstud8588 The guy changed his last name specifically so that he wouldn't get roles based on the Coppola name.
Warner Bros: "You know, most people don't know that Nicholas Cage was supposed to be Superman 20 years ago. Are we sure that we should include an extra long cameo in the Flash of him fighting the giant spider from that cancelled movie"
Also Warner Bros: *NAH IT'LL BE FINE*
What makes this even funnier is that the most popular video related to cage playing supes is this critical drinker video.
Meaning the execs at WB probably saw this video and decided to make it into live action
@@Nemenis He became what he swore to destory :P
@@Jdne199311 but definitely one of the funniest cameos.
@@Nemenis absolutely, wish smallville was mentioned thought
@@Jdne199311 probably not under WB rights. It would be like mcu showing 2003 hulk released by universal studios
Reminds me of that Gilbert Godfried joke:
(Squinting and putting the blue card to his forehead like Johnny Carson):
"Christopher Walken..."
(Then proceeds to read the card):
"Things you won't see in the Reeve's household".
"Gay R2D2 with Attitude"
So.. C3PO?
LOL, exactly.
Holy shit dude, you win the internet for February.
gay2d2
Nah, C-3PO is way too much of a nervous wreck.
“Since it’s fun to look back at Hollywood’s most embarrassing failures...”
You mean three-quarters of the films they’ve produced for the last few years?
Hollyweird is very committed to a consistent stream of aids reborn
Only 3/4?
I have missed many movies in that case.
Wouldn't mind some suggestions, bored to death, would prefer the coof at this point.
Or 85 percent of 2018-2020
I must have missed the quarter of films that weren't complete shit. The only film that seemed decent was Joker. Still haven't seen it but it is the only one that even slightly interests me.
You have to be capable of feeling shame in order to experience embarrassment. Hollywood knows no shame.
Drinker, please do a “Production Hell” of “Heaven’s Gate.” The coke-filled behind-the-scenes drama of that production was immense!
Really fucking weird because either just stumbled onto another comment 2 videos ago mentioning heavens gate as a nightmare film, and literally over the weekend I stumbled on a new word three times in a day, after learning the fun (supposed) fact "if you don't hear a new word/thing 3 times in a XX(i think they usually just say 24 hours) then you'll completely forget that word/thing until it comes up again"(and I have no clue how they prove that, and tbh I'm not even sure which word it was that stood out to me lol)
Guess I kinda disproved the whole thing, but really weird stumbling on basically the same comment in totally different places.
@@mutt9779 Synchronicity is a bit of a word for it. Or serendipity.
"This is the reason why Melissa McCarthy is not playing wonder women" you should have added "yet".
I thought “damn it drinker! Don’t give them any ideas!!!”
Why not. After her fifth pregnancy she settles down as Wonder Mum not knowing, that her husband is an evil genius about to conquer the world. When she realizes, shes is going to use a housewives means (lots of kitchen tools) to bring him down and drag him to a marriage therapist. It turns out the therapist is the true mastermind behind all evil (have to serve some cliches) and makes the husband to kill himself to get rid of a witness. Out of frustration Wonder Mum is eating her six children, while watching Super Dad vs. Bat Dad.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂. Pleas God no. Please Hollywood do not greenlit a fatass Wonder Woman movie starring Melissa McCarthy.
"Reeve was too old by this point and a tragic accident had left him paralyzed from the neck down."
I like how being too old was still the primary concern
He would’ve satisfied the “no flying” condition though.
^ How? Could he fly before his accident? 🤔🍵
@@ilkkarautio2449 he did fly. Off his horse if you count that
@@TheHatman168 O O O F
@@TheHatman168 Oof...
"Not every actor can play every character"
Nicholas Cage can play ANY character
More importantly, he is willing to play any character...
I always assumed this was the reason Cage was so quick to jump on playing Big Daddy in Kickass. He finally got to don a costume and be a “superhero”
He was Ghost Rider before that, in two movies no less.
Considering the tone of Kick-Ass, it just feels like a Nic Cage movie
Kevin Smith died to me when he reviewed Star Wars, and called Rose's "thats how we are going to win...not fighting what we hate, but saving what we love" a beautiful line.
I agree 100% with that comment.
Yep, Kevin Smith is a joke nowadays. He's a Disney and IMDB shill who's days of making good movies are long over. The Jay and Silent Bob reboot was sad and pathetic.
@fortnite4201 x He had a few decent movies, but that ended in 2001 with Jay and Silent Bod. Since then his career has been sad.
@@Mattblaze1477 Oh that movie sucked hard, the daughter’s acting was so bad.
Kevin shouldn't have cast his buds for chasing Amy. If he would've went with Drew Barrymore, John Stewart and David schwimmer, I think his stock would have went in a different direction. Now, he cries over every star wars or comic book scene in a movie or television show.
I just love the fact that Nicholas Cage got 20 million dollars for just doing a bunch of costume tests, lolololol!
Yet he still blew all his money and is now forced to make dozens of low-budget trash movies to pay his debts.
@@fattiger6957 like when he bought an actual t rex skull to put in his castle, I think it was also around the time when he married that 18 yr old waitress.
$20 million was enough to keep 90's Nic in cocaine for about..... 3 months. This is why people shouldn't feel guilty about pirating movies.
@@fattiger6957 seriously..go on filmrise or any other low dollar streaming channel and there's always some new Nic Cage turd recently added.
Nicholas Cage's horse face was too much to overcome.
It would've GREATLY distracted everyone throughout the whole movie.
Hsppy it didn't happen.
That bit about fighting a spider in the finale - Jon Peters had an obsession with putting a giant mechanical spider at the end of his films, and he eventually got his way in Wild Wild West
I read the Kevin Smith script that was leaked online in the late 90s/early 2000's. It was actually a really, reallly good script. It had to have been the undoctored version though because he flew wore the costume and everything.
might I ask where you read it?
@@muddashucka9743 ah jeez it was a print out from a website at least twenty years ago.
It started with a Superman taking down deadshot after he tries to assassinate the mayor and then getting evidence that Lex Luthor was behind it it.
When his XRay vision hits the evidence it somehow destroys the evidence but let's Superman know he was behind it.
Lex has a funny joke about a law to outlaw Superhumans passing so he can legally shoot superman's "Pajama clad ass out of the sky, legally"
Lex's big plan was a way to block out yellow sunlight from reaching earth slowly draining Superman's powers...
It may have been Brainiac whom was working his way to earth that did it. But Brainiac unleashed a creature, which all but is Doomsday and Superman is killed fighting him.
Funeral and sad Metropolis, the sun filter and Brainiac lead to riots in Metro and Gotham. Batman cameos and says basically "Sorry Metro, I can't help you."
Superman's ship that brought him to earth turns out to be a sentient machine that morphs into Super Suit and carries his body back to the fortress. Apparently he recovers and the fortress tries to charge his body with yellow sun energy but it's slow going as he can only charge his power in small amounts due to his near death state.
Earth is being routed by Brainiac whom he confronts in the ship suit, that mimics all of his abilities.
They didn't outright say it but I got John Henry Irons vibes out of it. Anyway, supes fights and destroys Brainiac after fighting his way to space to get past the yellow sun blocker.
I can't remember exactly how it ends but I actually liked it. I'm not the biggest Kevin Smith fan but the dude can write a good story when he isn't crushing childhoods.
@@muddashucka9743 sorry for the muddled phrasing. I hope you get the gist of it. I just worked a double shift lol
I’m surprised Tim Burton didn’t just give Johnny Depp a bunch of steroids for this instead 🤔
Lol agreed
With Burton's wife playing Lois Lane.
@@aelius3805 good God you’re right. Weird to see Lois Lane all drugged out & smoking like a chimney
He's already more beefy than Nick
Don't forget about covering him from head to toes in Pancake mix
John Peters: "Let's see. . . Super Man can't fly and can't wear his costume. Uhhhh. . . we need a giant spider somewhere. . . Let's have a robot dog, aaaaand gay R2D2 with *attitude.* There we go. Yes! I'm a genius!"
I'm totally not taking the piss. This will be a beloved classic in no time.
Peters the hairdresser
@@robertfitzgerald3118 Who also thinks he's a tough guy streetfighter who bullies his underlings. I saw the Superman Lives documentary and Peters seems like the biggest dbag in the world.
@@fattiger6957 well you've gotta have a bit of an ego do those kinds of jobs
@@noble14 Yeah, you need a bit of an ego. But Peters is the kind of dbag who bullies people because he knows they can't fight back. If he was a normal person in a normal job, he would have been fired and/or gotten his ass kicked.
Watch the doc. It is disgusting how this guy acted.
@@fattiger6957 aight, I'll check it out. I've noticed similar from alot of directors and even actors, it's like they think their shit doesn't stink and that makes them kings.
*Came here after seeing our boy in The Flash.*
This movie would have made Batman & Robin look like Schindler’s List in comparison.
The greatest tragedy in Superman's cinematic legacy was the wasted potential of Henry Cavill. That man was put on this earth to play the part of Superman and they gave him one garbage script after another... what a shame, what a waste.
That's what I say about Hugh Jackman and wolverine.
Yeah, even MOS could have been green if Snyder had actually understood what "Superman Earth One" was all about. Instead, he just copied some scenes and randomly threw them in a script.
MoS was solid.
@@genox3636 bruh Hugh Jackman is the worst example he got some of the best treatment by Fox and he was the main character of the x men franchise. And he was in 7 movies where he got a big role
I personally think man of steel was a banging movie. One of the best action films I’ve ever seen. When superman and Zod were fighting it actually felt like two gods were beating the shit out of each other on screen
I literally watched Production Hell: Dr. Moreau and The Abyss last night. Keep this series going!
Did you watch his Apocalypse Now production hell? That was good too.
Yeah I agree. These videos are really good and interesting.
Among the best content
so did I on Saturday night seriously he is the best channel on CZcams.
Best series he does
"They're all so cool and edgy, what could go wrong?" Famous last words.
I've watched that *"The Death of Superman Lives"* documentary couple times now. Pretty damn interesting, and the concept art and designs were definitely interesting.
The fact we missed out on Cage as Superman is beyond depressing.
At least he finally got to play Supes in the Teen Titans Go movie.
How so? Genuinely curious why you think he would be a good superman. He looks nothing like him.
@@coldchilln1988 It would be entertaining. That is all.
@@mdiggler For the wrong reasons.
@@jekblom123 But oh so right
What worries me is knowing that little has changed within DC/Warner, they still don't understand the IPs they have.
Like the case of the person responsible for the special effects of one of the Superman films having to explain to one of the top executives that Superman does not need the cape to fly.
That's cause studios are run by businessmen, not creatives. Bob Iger only got lucky with Marvel having Kevin Fiege. Without Fiege, the MCU would have looked the garbage Marvel movies that preceded it (Fantastic 4, Ghost Rider, Dare Devil, etc)
The book 'Superman Vs. Hollywood' has a fascinating description of this "movie's" troubled writing process.
"...as soon as 'Kal-El,' Superman's Kryptonian name, escaped (Kevin) Smith's lips, (Jon) Peters blurted out 'Who's Kal-El?'" Oof.
Patty Jenkins with Wonder Woman. Another director who has no experience with comic books or with the character. They haven't learned their lesson at all.
Seriously....? I mean there were 4 freaking Superman movies by then.....
@@DeadlyDanDaMan there are barely any people in Hollywood who read comics as children or have experience with a specific character. Very few. You can't expect a comic reader who just happens to be a writer or director in hollywood. All you can expect are good writers period.
Kevin Smith's story about Jon Peters and the mechanical spider has one of the greatest pay-offs I've ever heard.
"That's why you don't see Melissa McCarthy as Wonder Woman"
...YET
Anyone remember when Madtv did the sketch “Leaving Metropolis” where they had Nic Cage playing an alcoholic Superman?
*Superman enters AA meeting in full costume*
Superman: hi, I’m Clark Kent, and I’m an alcoholic
Everyone: Hi, Superman!
Superman: Superman?! How’d you...*looks down* Oh f**k!!!
Superman
Topkek
LMAO!
That was hilarious and I'd kinda want to see that movie. A lower budget film on Superman losing it (ie infected with Red Kryptonite or something).
@@Paulafan5 There were a whole lot of scenes in Spider-Man 2 where people see him without his mask, and that's considered to be a contender for the greatest superhero movie ever made.
They did that, it was called “Tonight He Comes”, which was later adapted as “Hancock “ starring Will Smith
So Superman had to go through therapy, deal with a relationship the whole movie, and use a suit after he loses his powers? Are you sure this isn’t Wonder Woman 1984?
I don't know anything about that shit movie but I remember Diana losing her powers in the seventies doing the Avengers schtick in the increasingly irrelevant COMIC BOOKS..
And here we are, in 2023, when we finally get a Flash of what could have been
And Cage didn't like how they did that, either.
It wasn't "attitude" or even "extreme" that summed up the 90's. It was "edgy," with a side serving of "dark."
The “xtreme attitude” era followed after
"Superman can't fly"
Ok, no.
"He can never appear in costume."
Ok... no.
"He has to fight a giant spider monster."
Well, maybe.
"He has to have a sassy robotic assistant like a gay r2d2 with attitude."
You're a horrible writer and no one should ever work for you.
The original Superman couldn't fly, he just jumped around with his super strength.
@@jl3114 And they changed that pretty fast.
@@jekblom123 The first time superman was depicted as a flying being, was a mistake by a new artist on issue #10 who assumed that the ability to fly was in his skillset because depictions of him leaping through the air made it look like he was flying. He didn't fly again until the mid 1940's, so honestly we should have seen a superman movie where he can't fly. Not that I really care, I think Superman has always been a pretty lame superhero compared to most others
That honestly sounds like they were intentionally torpedoing the project. When Superman 4 the quest for peace looks better than your project someone at the top needs to get canned.
@Kordell swoffer Having a Superman that can't fly makes more sense than having Nicolas Cage be Superman. I'm surprised that's not your biggest gripe
"Could Nick Cage play an alien struggling to fit into human society...?"
"ABSOLUTELY. He's been doing it his whole LIFE".
OMG I about died with this...🤣
Lol
Yeah that got me too.
That was a beautiful statement because it's so true. And I say that as a Nic Cage fan. He's one of the few actors that can be in a terrible movie and still be incredibly entertaining.
Well, between those 2 lines
My mind said, doesnt he?
Life immitates art
Legit the part in the flash that actually got me chills.
Because i knew that nic cage loves super man, and my god hes such a awesome funny guy
4:31
Those conditions almost had me falling off my chair, and I was never even into comics that much, ROFL!!
Fun fact: Nick Cage named one of his sons Kal-El. For reals.
He's a huge fan, he owns an original issue evaluated in a million dollars.
And he got his own name from Marvel’s Luke Cage!
🤯
We don't deserve Nick Cage
Jesus fucking christ
"Melissa McCarthy as Wonder Woman" Dear God please don't give them the idea.
If the current writers at DC Comics were in charge of the movies, that would probably happen. Either her or that black lady who was also in Ghostbusters 2016.
@Luc Germain Lol, compare post-n52 to what it was before. Alan Scott is randomly gay. Wally West is randomly black. Power Girl gets a replaced by a black mary-sue with a much more modest outfit. Batman gets a lesbian, and two black sidekicks added to his already bloated family. Batgirl becomes an annoying sjw. They humiliate Lex Luthor in the Superwoman book and say he just stole everything from his sister. DC publishes Gotham High and I am Not Starfire, woke garbage that appeals to no one. Those are just the things I can think of from the top of my head.
Yeah, Marvel might be worse, but DC is sure as hell not innocent in their own demise.
@@fattiger6957 Preach my brother, point out the puddle of s*** that was DC's new comic books.
@@fattiger6957 yeah you’re right, but marvel started their wokeness in 2016; Civil War 2 was a red flag of what was coming.
@@diegohaung2831 Marvel's ramp up to woke garbage was much faster and stronger, but DC has still gone woke. They had a chance to course correct with DC Rebirth, but they went right back to woke trash afterwards.
I'm all down for Michael Bay directing a Tim Burton script.
Please do more Production Hell videos, they are the absolute best.
Nicolas Cage as Superman is honestly just unsettling for a reason I can't quite put my finger on...
I have a junkie in my family so it's easy for me.
Have you ever seen Flashpoint Superman? I think that if Nicolas Cage was going to play any version of Superman, it would be that one.
He already is ghost rider
Nic Cage would be shouting: I'M SUPERMAN, I'M SUPERMAN, I'M SUPERMAN, I'M SUPERMAN x 1000...lol
I want to blame it on the jesus hair, but thats just me.
Well, Nick Cage finally fulfilled his dream(voice Superman in Teen Titan Go the movie)
The death of Superman was the worst of the 3 death of Superman comics(Whatever happened to the man of tomorrow & All Star Superman): Not him fight with his most iconic enemy, not him tying up all the loose end leaving a legacy for the future,... but some guy we never met(Doomsday) whom backstory is only told AFTER his fight with Sup is finished, suddenly show up beat Sup to death. The best part of it was Sup's funeral & every hero tried to fill his shoes(symbolize by the fact that it took a bunch of them to lift his Key to The Fortress of Solitude)
@@aokhoinguyenang3992 He didn't die in All-Star Superman, though. He probably should have, since it was a one-off.
@@qty1315 He also didn't die in Whatever happened to the Man Of Tomorrow. But somehow both story handled his "death"(disappear from the world) better than The Death Of Superman
@@aokhoinguyenang3992 I think him getting killed by a total unknown enemy was part of the message the story was trying to get across.Superman dominated his enviroment and even his most sworm enemies were subdued,but as happens in life,disaster can come from even the most impropable places.Personally,I liked his death arc,from a story point of view.But I'm not a fan of his,so I can get your frustration.
I do agree however that bringing him back a dozen or two issues later was a dick move and certainly undone the impact the storyline had or could have had.So much for artistic integrity.
@@aokhoinguyenang3992 Personally, I thought that his death was handled pretty well in Death Of Superman. A random twist of fate takes him away from us, just like how most of us will likely die. It feels kinda real in a way that a noble sacrifice preceded by a monologue doesn't. It also introduced Doomsday, who has become a very iconic and interesting character.
My issue is that, by resurrecting him and basically making Superman immortal, it basically set a precedent for death not mattering in comics ever again. You can't have people take a story called The Death Of Batman seriously anymore because of how Superman's death was handled.
I wouldn't mind seeing Drinker tackling "Superman IV", and the other Superman Films. I'm a big fan of the history of those films, and the character. Plus, Superman is my guy!
They should have gone with Bruce Campbell as Superman, directed by Terry Gilliam in a rich Art Deco setting.
A quirky F. Murray Abraham as Lex Luthor, Sandra Bullock or Rosie MacDowell as Lois Lane and I bet it would have fu(king rocked.
"Can Nic Cage play an alien trying to fit into human society? Of course he's been doing it his whole life."
Classic!
This must be Jerry Siegal & Joe Shuster’s version of Hell: seeing their famous hero being reborn & emasculated over the years
I've stopped watching Superman when the 3D version came out. I had seen enough Louis and Clark by then and I already knew that 3D was gonna tank. Reason why is cause I've been to a 3D based movie themepark before in France (Futurescope) years before 3D got popular. The entire family came out totally sick, headaches and nauseated. Reason I learned a year after that during my optometry study. Basically you overstretch your accommodation muscles creating these sickness feelings. Even back then which was still a couple of years before the 3D tv push it was already known in the scientific world that it was gonna be a clusterfuck, but they invested so much into 3D that they were gonna push it through anyhow. It's why I never bought a 3D tv back then.
Just the Supergirl "Superman".
The trailer for Superman and Lois looks promising, I heard it had HBO-max budget/help/writers -or something, but it's likely going to be preachy with politics, but maybe they'll learn.
After Reeves, Dean Cain/Lois and Clark was good. A bit of metrosexualization for the time, women ramping up and stuff, but Clark had the home town farm life etc. and it wasn't so bad. The first show to use Kryptonite-infected/enhanced people, and the first to produce "super speed" on camera for the first time.
Smallville then was paramount, amazing, had C Reeves/Margot Kidder/old cast in cameos - filled in the gaps of the C Reeve stories in clever ways, and I had no issues with that.
Man of Steel was amazing, the "batman begins" real world version of Superman. Not blind hope/optimism, but "how would the world react today" - and real world consequences with Zod etc. I had no issues.
Dawn of Justice (extended cut/extra half hour) was an excellent Batman movie, with the warehouse fight being the best Batman fight on screen (intelligence, all gadgets use, uses a grappling gun to pull a guy in for a hook punch, uses the samurai arm guards to take on 4 knife wielding guys at once etc.) - excellent Batman movie, not so much a Superman movie, but the extended cut makes it flow better, and it's a fun blockbuster to watch.
JL was not good. No GL or MM, and WW has a solo bank scene - even though she has her own movie, and you see 2 seconds of the Flash solo scene etc., and Superman - a leader - is in the last half hour.
Yes, The Supergirl Superman is that, but all the others aren't bad in my opinion.
Superman Returns even had it's fun moments, and "Clark" was really no different. The Airplane in Baseball field, bullet to the eye - a fun blockbuster with a hero you like, not so much an in depth Shawshank Redemption type.
I prefer _"utterly torn to shreds by rabid Arcturan Megadogs",_ but yes, I agree.
The very reason for the death of superman was the family were in court with DC over the likeness rights to superman - and DC fully expected to loose; that's why they killed superman, and set up a handful of 'supermen' to be reborn; it was insurance in case they lost the red & blue. Either electric or steel supermen would have just taken center stage...
@@arkenmint9030 I'm not sure about that explanation. Had DC lost ownership to Superman, they still could have licensed the use of the character from the Siegal and Shuster families. And if they couldn't get the license, they wouldn't have been able to even use the name Superman, Clark Kent, Lois Lane, Metropolis, Superboy or anything the original two creators invented.
Who would have thought this will come to public viewing one day
I came back to laugh at Kevin Smith
"Could Nick Cage play an alien struggling to fit into human society? Absolutely, he's been doing it his whole life!"
...
This shit put me in tears; your linguistic ability knows no bounds Drinker.
“Gay R2D2 with attitude”. Yes. We called that: C3PO. 🤦♀️
C3PO and R2D2, the two friends everyone believe is a gay couple, but nobody can say for sure
@@QuietFromMetalGearSolid Like Bert & Ernie.
@@QuietFromMetalGearSolid The Ambiguously Gay Duo.
c3po didn't have an attitude.
The only time he showed somewhat of an attitude was cut out of ESB. He took the warning sign off of the locked door to a room filled with a herd of wampas. Stormtroopers ran into it and the wampas had a snack.
Thanks. The way you describe the film making process and the negative influence of money, egos, and incompetence, it's a wonder that every Hollywood movie isn't a "Superman Lives."
Drinker, I thank you starting this Production Hell series. I love hearing the production side of things for all things film and especially love to hear 'development hell' stories as one might hope they could serve as warnings for future productions. Cheers!
“That’s why you don’t see Melissa McCarthy playing Wonder Woman” - Bro please don’t give them ideas for ultimate wokeness
Haha! Ikr! Especially given the current state of the comics. We're two steps away from Leslie Jones playing Steve Trevor.🤪🤪
JimCarreyGag.gif
She's not black enough. Don't worry!
@Jack Reacher Lizzo?
Superman is wholesome and stable. He isn't struggling with 'his humanity.' He knows who he is, what he's feeling, what his mission is and why. He's the best of us. That's what makes him so enduring.
Adam West batman has probably the best rogues gallery in film history and was brilliantly cast. It was a TV program aimed at children, after all.
And that Batman show featured a deathtrap every week. The Saw series totally ripped it off.😂
All Star Superman sums what you said about him pretty well.
@@wpeniche It's the writers that need 'therapy,' not the character.
You could try tying the "struggling with his humanity" in with him learning his powers and figuring out what he wanted to do with his life and powers, but honestly, that's still a stretch and should only last a short time if it did happen.
@@onyxrose4349 the writers project their imorality on the character and call it 'edgy" or "a modern take" or worse still, a "reimagining..." and you see what's in their imaginations. Clark Kent is not Tony Stark, "struggling" with drunkeness, arrogance and dubious moral choices. He is a simple, small town man that knows right from wrong and chooses right, that's who mild-mannered Clark Kent is. As Superman, Clark uses his powers to do good. Goodness is what makes him extraordinary, not the superpowers.
Eventually we’ll be graced with a production hell analysis of the new “Batman”.
Honestly it would have been interesting to see N.C. as Superman.
Henrill Cavill had the charisma of a barnacle in man of steel. He has gotten better with age and you can tell in the Witcher.
From what I saw of the glass helmeted alien, it looks like he might have fought brainiac. That would have been really cool.
"That's why you don't see Melissa McCarthy as Wonder Woman"
Fuck, man, don't give them any more bad ideas...
Well...she will be playing a superhero in the next Netflix movie starring her...
@martyborman Don't insult fatties by associating them with Melissa McCarthy!
New entry for the dictionary: getting "Shumachered" = having your franchise run into the ground
Also see "kennedied"
@@krugervictor3516Not inaccurate, but "cursed" is too vague a term to be used in this scenario.
@@krugervictor3516 with an emphasis on the *died*
Schuhmachered?
So I guess the go-to idea to make things darker and grittier would be.... Snydered?
9:38 regarding no reference to the debacle in Superman Returns. That is incorrect. There was actually a nod to Superman Lives. Superman had saved the world from Lex Luthor's Kryptonite plot and had fell to earth. They weren't sure if he was going to live or die. There was a scene in which Perry White had two versions of the newspaper for the following day on his desk. He had One paper with the headline "Superman is Dead" and the other "Superman Lives" Not much of a reference but it was a reference to it.
Been binging a lot of your videos on movies that I've liked. Your Starship Troopers one is my favorite so far. Thank you for making these!
Me watching Netflix the thumbnail: “How can this not be a photoshop.”
I wonder what Nicholas Cage as superman would be like.
@@saisameer8771 He would problably be like...Nicholas Cage
@@PowerRedBullTypology I want to live in the universe where Superman is characterised like Nicholas Cage
I remember seeing a Kevin Smith interview on this and he was talking about the dude's fixation on the giant spider, which ended up being in the very forgettable Wild Wild West movie
As a kid that’s what I remember most about the movie
Seen that film a few years back and it's more fun than people credit it for. The scene where Will Smith meets the villain and they start insulting each other with quips about him being a cripple and Will being black is something you probably won't see in films today and it's hilarious.
black coffee, dark south etc - great quipping. I actually enjoy it, knowing it would be cringe. I purposely watch shit films just for the "what the fuck were they thinking"
Azguard Mike 2013 watched the Core for that exact reason last year.
Wild Wild West invented Steampunk
I remember seeing a fan trailer for Superman Lives that someone uploaded to CZcams a few years ago. There’s no doubt it would’ve been a train wreck but I still kind of wish it had happened.
Link?
The 90s was friggin awesome! This movie sounds crazy, I love it.
One of the most memorable aspects of Burton's Batman movies is the dark, monolithic depiction of Gotham City, as envisioned by Anton Furst and Bo Welch. I remember, upon first seeing Coruscant in *Star Wars: The Phantom Menace* , I thought to myself that had Burton made his Superman movie, this is what Metropolis would look like.
Burton's Gotham is dark and dilapidated with an pseudo industrial look mixed with the art deco. Metropolis isn't supposed to be dark and dirty. It's art deco, but mixed with futurism. Since he was a fan of German expressionism, maybe Burton would have pulled from Metropolis (the silent film) but Gotham isn't really a evidence that his Metropolis would have been good.
Kevin Smith is one of those people who always looks like a toddler dressed by a drunk parent.
Drunk and doing meth
Kevin Smith - Here's a film pitch.
Studio - Great, now can you change it completely and disregard the character?
Kevin Smith - Sure, I guess.
Oh classic studio meddling.
kinda what happened with the whole Lost Boys thing
3:40 Kevin Smith's involvement has aged brilliantly as of just recently (see MOTUR).
And I promise that I merely came here for a good laugh at a production hell episode and completely forgot about this bit of history.