Is Psychic Frog The Real Problem In Constructed Magic?
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- čas přidán 9. 09. 2024
- Legacy is in shambles and it feels like there's been a recent blanket that's started to get put over our eyes, and especially considering the full state of constructed in Magic, it couldn't be any worse than right now!
#mtg #magicthegathering #meta #crazy #thoughts
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Other Links:
Anuraag Das's Tweet on Psychic Frog: x.com/anzidmtg...
Fireshoes Tweet on Top8 Legacy Challenge: x.com/i/bookma...
d00mwake's Pioneer Tweet: x.com/d00mwake...
My Response Re: Pioneer: x.com/MillThat...
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The combination between two-color-pitches, being a wincon in itself, card advantage and a free discard outlet, frog is just the cement holding everything together - something that didn't need cement in the first place.
Psychic Frog is a difficult card to play against. Also slots in perfectly for reanimator. Insane discard outlet.
I don't understand why people don't see that Frog is overpowered.
Can you attack into it? No, it'll just eat your attacker and leave behind a big body. Or the Frog controller takes the hit, then attacks back and draws a card.
Can you block it? Nope, it flies.
Can you Lightning Bolt it? Not really, you'll waste your Bolt and you'll leave behind a big Frog.
Can you ignore it? Nope, it's a two mana draw engine, plus it can kill relatively quickly for a two-mana card.
So unless you have a perfect answer (Fatal Push, Swords to Plowshares), what can you do against it without falling significantly behind? It's only a two-mana card, so saying that some four-mana card outclasses it isn't a great argument.
And then of course there's the advantage that it's a discard outlet, that it pitches to FoW and Grief, that it protects the graveyard from Surgical Extraction, etc. But even outside of reanimator Frog seems busted.
@@lightworker2956 The issue with Frog is that Grief just scammed you out of your white removal. Plow and Prismatic Ending are easy answers that just aren't good due to Grief.
@@JohnFromAccounting Frog seems at least as good as Dreadhorde Arcanist to me, and that card is banned, despite Plow and Prismatic Ending also being an easy answer to Dreadhorde Arcanist.
I'm not saying "don't ban grief." imo ban Grief and Frog.
@@lightworker2956 You comparing Apples with Pommegranates
Dreadhorde Arcanist was not banned in Legacy because of the Card itself being good (which, honestly, it really isn't, because no other format have the card hit in any way, not even Vintage have it restricted). It was Banned because of the Plethora of very powerful (if not Broken) 1 Mana Instants and Sorceries that this card can Flashback in Legacy. So, Dreadhorde Arcanist was banned because of being a simple enabler that basically allowed double casting of cards that were never supposed to be casted twice
Psychic Frog should be Banned not just because it enables two of the best "Free" Spells ever created (Force of Will and Grief) which, honestly, should be the ones getting the Ban, but because it, on one side, basically works similar to Raggavan (except it is not Legendary and does not steal resources but give you more access to yours). And, on the other, it's both a free Discard Outlet and Payoff at the same time. In other words, Psychic Frog is a 3 for one
@@JohnFromAccounting I think that Grief is the bigger issue.
Think you meant Troll of Khazad Dum not Grave Troll
Both are very viable in Scaminator. This is Legacy we're talking about
Yeah that part threw me off for a sec lol
Grave-Troll is the Dredge 6 card
It confused me when he said Golgari Grave Troll has "mega-menace"
Think about what you're actually saying: the game is unplayable if you have a mana base that costs under $200. Reflect on that
No he’s saying he wants a good mana base, those cards don’t have to be that expensive
@@MateoByrd-kg9rf So as the game exists right now, it's unenjoyable if you're not a whale? Just sounds a little out of touch to me
@@prestonbeaulieu4379 he talked about how fun pauper was? His main point seems to be that interesting interactive cards haven’t been printed into standard ergo not pioneer… prolly since they’re bad in commander they care more about shoving new legends in each set and compensating for busted creatures by throwing in cheap board wipes
@@MateoByrd-kg9rfare you enjoying your "interesting interactive spells" in modern horizons block constructed (or modern for short)?
As a Grixis player, the biggest thing holding strategies like Grixis back in Pioneer is the mana base. You’re basically confined to two colours because without fetches, your manabase is extremely awkward compared to two colour decks.
I love psychic frog :)
He jump and he get big
I love psychic frog :)
he a plippy plappy boi
Sure, on one hand playing the card is fun -- but on the other hand it's just inherently fun to play with any overtuned card.
If Psychic Frog cost 2UB, I wonder if people would like Froggy as much.
@@lightworker2956definitely NOT in modern😂😂
It's pushable..
You can drown it, terminate it, static prison it, binding it, etc.
@@FalloutFan011 the problem is you better run other efficient removal because the murktide thats coming after the frog aint dying to push
@@lightworker2956 to me he’s just a silly frog, i built a deck with him with nearly no pitching or anything of the sort, it’s a simple draw/recursion modern deck with other cards like cthonian, flip tamiyo, and marionette apprentice
Pauper has interaction like snuff out, and pioneer has what... doom blade?
Fatal Push and Fell at best
@djsedam123 I forgot about Push, but with no fetches, isn't it harder to proc revolt?
@@sambrown9475 Rakdos is much more common than pure black, and they run Fable and Bloodtithe Harvester, which makes procing revolt still pretty easy.
You perfectly worded my thoughts on the Pioneer format.
It looks like the Powercreep has favoured the threats and the answers are lacking behind. Modern and Legacy have several pitch spells, but in Pioneer, you either need to play perfectly around your opponents strategy, or pop off faster than them
We got power creep for creatures~~ now we need spells to catch up too.
I think its hard to design answers that dont feel compleatly horrible to play against. I understand, that WotC wants us to buy more Packs thus the Powercreep. I just dont think that powercrepped answers will make the game better
Pioneer will be the next modern - destroyed by wotcs greed
Remember there was a problem before the frog. And if you nuke the frog there will be one after
My man... you wanna see a Pioneer Mill List? I think you deserve it after that rant.
I wanna see that list. I've been looking into Pioneer as a way to escape Modern rn.
It’s really funny watching people struggle with Pyschic Frog because it really feels like a flashback to 2004 and Psycstog was crushing. It really is just a slightly better version of Dr Teeth and frankly if Psychatog was just 2 mana it would probably be just as good. Yes psychic frog is really good and hard to remove, that is the idea. Grief seems to be the key though to why that deck is killing it in legacy because it is removing the removal first then you just win.
Slightly Better??? 😂😂😂😂😂
Playing against psychic frog feels like the other person is cheating.
@@elbe0072 🤣🤣 facts
Frog in legacy is hugely subsidised by Grief at the moment. Ban Grief and the meta changes. Eldrazi doesn't care as much about Frog.
Psychic Frog is a good card but Grief is 100% the problem. Ban Grief at the next announcement. IF Psychic Frog is still a problem then, consider a banning it then.
Personally, I don't believe the Frog is deserving of a ban - from what I've seen. It's like you say, it's a great card that pitches to both Force of Will AND Grief. Without Grief, the real issue in the format, it's just another creature that pitches to FoW.
When i opened psychic frog i thought it was a bulk rare. I'd gladly sell it if i just knew how shipping worked😂
Frog is fine. A card being good doesn’t mean it’s broken. Legacy, of all formats, has plenty of ways to answer frog.
Grief, once again, is the actual issue. You complaining about frog is basically you repeating your bad argument against Fury.
Now that the bans has came out, grief is gone now. How’s psychic frog look now? I wanna build a deck with home cause I love frogs and I don’t wanna make it if it’s gonna kick it
Yeah. Amalia, Greasefang, and Devotion make Explorer (Pioneer lite on Arena) less fun than it should be. Lotus Field Combo makes me sad, too, but I see it a lot less. 😂
Just because the card is played and is good doesn't mean it's a problem. Also, the word is EXACERBATE.
Yeah, but if cards are played and are busted good, there might be a problem.
That's exactly what a serial exasterbater would say... 🤨
The classic prescriptivist comment.
Do you even lignuistics bro?
@@BS-bv5sh Clearly you don't.
@davidbeckbeef tfw: you devastate their logic by pointing out that they made a typo.
ggez
Dies to fatal push and helps keep degen energy decks in check. The frog is fun.. we like the frog.. no. We. Love. Frog… all hail
im a phychic frog player on mobile and i really wish arena had a "let opponent combo off" button. the auto pass button isnt good enough. am opinion in settings to turn autopass into an always yield priority button would be awesome because it still works with manual phase stops.
shift+enter
@@luthix3314 Im on mobile
white decks are pretty bad against grief decks but good against the card psychic frog. hoping it gets toned down after a grief ban
it's just really generic and can slot into many decks, I don't think any frog decks without grief is really unfair
treat her like a lightning bolt, if your deck has those colors you will play it because the alternatives are just the same but a bit worse
@@doomkingraye7692 Yeah but Frog turn 2 can just run away with the game. The opponent having a lightning bolt doesn't just snowball the game out of control.
I think Frog is more like Legacy-banned Dreadhorde Arcanist.
@@lightworker2956 idk, frog doesn't cheat the mana and doesn't get to pick what to have, it's also 2 colors not 1, just happened to be the best color combination currently in legacy, if this was 2 years ago frog in order to be as strong as she is now would have to be izzet
@@lightworker2956 the only thing frog has over arcanist is the ability to scale up considerably
Sure it doesn't cheat mana (except when it sets of a Reanimate on a fatty), but the other primary resource is cards and it draws an extra card a turn. And it costing UB is more of an advantage (it pitches to FoW / Grief) than a drawback.
Frog flies, and Arcanist doesn't. Besides, I don't need to prove that Frog is better than Arcanist. If they're equally good, Frog should be banned because Arcanist is.
Aside from standard, curating, eternal formats would solve a lot of problems. Having a selection of sets that are legal in modern or legacy, and changing that selection every once in a while, is probably a lot better than just printing stuff to force the format to rotate based on sheer power.
Extended. You just suggested an alternate version of Extended. No thanks.
Anyone else thinking that the ban list should be reset? Unban everything for a tournament rotation, let players re-break cards and then go from there.
No ban modern tournaments exist and it's not that interesting. You will die to Dark Depths.
As much as I like that idea, it will create way more fatigue for players in paper than the good it may or may not bring to the format.
Might be fun for a one-off event, or for an online league. But I think that people would get bored of that very quickly, because busted cards are busted. Besides, do you want to buy into an expensive deck built around an unbanned card, if there's a good chance it'll get banned soon after?
In legacy, it's pretty easy to tell which cards will be fine and which are broken. Mana Drain and Earthcraft are totally safe, but Mystical Tutor is not.
I'd wanna see it, but I wouldn't wanna play in it.
Mana is resource, Free spells are bad. Like half of combos in MTG is some sort of mana cheating, also all "free answers" could be used in combo decks too for protection of themself. This is why I after 8 years of magic enjoy hearthstone more. Game designers can't just throw away stupid turn 3 combo decks with hope of "some one will doomblade it". Hyper agressive decks is too cost efficient, combodeck is also too fast. I came to magic and played maze-fog deck, there was my first learned lesson that health is a resource and cards could have more value depended on when you pley them. In current magic, turn 4 wrath single creature is like mandatory every other game because of "FUN DEGING". That fun design that shrinked all deckbuilding to degenerate combo, hyper-agressive or midrange decks. There is no longer "control" decks. Control is dead. something like "UW control" is just another name for midrange grindfest.
August 26th is my birthday 😂
I LOVE GRIEF
good grief....
Hogan got beat by Rakdos Scam, Eldrazi Tron, and AmuletPost in a series by Card Market. It performed terribly bad, we have a ton of removal that hits hogaak now, as well as Bridge just gets shut down by literally any elemental, but really bad by endurance, solitude and subtlety. I honestly don’t think it’s very good anymore, like currently I don’t even think it would be too 2 decks in the meta, I think Nadu is faster and more consistent, and I think Jeskai Control has every answer they could ever need for it. An early game 8/8 just isn’t that good anymore look at Murktide, and if it’s the combo, there are way to many ways to interact with it now, the same argument as against the Twin Ban, we have more then just Path now.
First, Pioneer ask you pay your answers, that is. Second but in the same vein, Pioneer requires being a more controling strategy if you want good answers for anything.
And of course, the concept of direct Pioneer product doesn't seem wanted by the community as a hole in fact; and that makes Pioneer the format where the only way to a card being added is through Standard... and that is good and one of the reasons to be interesting for many players.
Gavin Verhey talked about how certain cards are meant for certain formats, and including them on others or being banned (examples that he gave were Legacy Brain storm and Pauper Artifact Lands in fact), you should check it. The video is on HuskyTCG's Channel.
Brainstorm enables diversity. So many decks would cease viability without it, and the format would become tempo + Ancient Tomb.
@@JohnFromAccounting It wasn't a criticism, it was part of the comment that I am refering to.
Solution. Stop printing modern sets and put actually good removal spells into standard. Let's see new free removal that costs something besides mana.
Stop printing free interaction all the time
@@franslair2199 you're just a casual
@@VvVLuffyM2 you're a typical modern player lol. wah wah i want free shit and i don't understand how that's bad for the game
@@franslair2199 it's not bad for the game, it's bad for baby casuals who want every game to last an hour. Free interactions existed since premodern times anyway. If you're gonna complain about card mechanics then don't play the card game.
Frog dies to push, swords, solitude, unholy heat (most of times). Gets sacked by static prison, prismatic ending.
The real problem right now is Stupid boros being too wide, too fast, consistently. And nadu everywhere with lenghty and annoying combos.
We are just angry because we cant afford to be constantly investing in the best deck when the Meta is totaly changing every 6 months. And our pet decks sometimes preform but most of times get overwhelmed by overpowered stuff.
Along with Grief, should WOTC also ban Reanimate? There are 2 mana options like Amimate Dead and Exhume, so it doesn't take the turn 1 Ritual + Entomb + Animate Dead play out of the format.
Surgical was just printed in Outlaws
If psychic frog gets banned it should be separate from grief, for modern at least
Frog is too good for legacy me thinks
You're unable to block frog, because of the discard option
Wizards should make a group that is separate from their company that does the banned and restricted so that money stops being part of the equation and they can just focus on gameplay.
Yeah but that costs money to do
@@sablesalt They could volunteer.
Why would a corporation like Hasbro whose sole purpose is to make money want a separate entity that could affect their bottom line?
@@davidbeckbeef Long term health of the brand over short term profits is basic money making skills.
@@luthix3314 L M A O! Hasbro dgaf.
Terrible video, grief is very obviously the actual problem with frog
This is the worst take I ever watched psychic frog is literally not a problem at all
😂
vintage is the WORST format ever
The play patters are awful, games end end on the first 1-2 turns
either they stax you out or you combo kill them.
Very few games are not like that, even the ones that are back and fourth can be abruptly ended with a time vault + key combo, or they play power cards like recall drawing 3, time walk ect that swings the game so far into their favour that nothing you did mattered before that point.
Yes I have played numerous games of Vintage in mtgo and it is the worst most awful format I've ever played, it is objectively the worst format in the whole game.
The power 9 cards are a novelty for a few dozen games at most but after that it gets real old real fast, it does not make for better gameplay it makes for worse gameplay.
The best format is Pioneer, because it does not have these badly designed cards.
You are dead wrong and it's obvious that you don't know anything about Vintage or have played the format recently. Vintage has very degenerate decks but also very strong answers so it all works out and produces interesting magic. It's much healthier than Pioneer for example that has all the degenrate combos but no Force of Will or Null Rod to keep the degens in place. It's also in a much better spot than Legacy which currently only has 1 playable deck. Vintage is great right now and has been for some time.
No, Vintage is an acquired taste. And it's cool if you don't dig it. It's a format defined by Shops and Stax, with absurdly powerful control pieces, and either that is your bag or its not.
@@Martin-qb2mw It doesn't even matter because fewer and fewer people can afford Vintage, meaning it's a dying format.
@@lightworker2956 Vintage on MTGO is very cheap. Much cheaper than Modern. In paper you can play proxy tournaments so it's not that expensive there either. Again, null and void criticism from someone who doesn't play Vintage and doesn't understand Vintage. It's fine to not know everything, but you don't have to pretend that you know things you don't. Paper modern is probably more expensive as your deck costs 1000 dollars, you can't proxy and it rotates once per year.
Run answers? It's a high power format where you have to understand what you and your opponents are trying to do and answer on the stack appropriately.
Yeah, a game can end if your opponent resolves a combo. That's the same in every format. You're better equipped to stop them from doing that than in any other format.