Edit: I seem to have forgotten about Glimpse of Nature in the video 😂 I had it in the list of "combo cards" but just skipped over it. Glimpse is a controversial one but for me I think the card itself might be a bit too powerful even if it incentivizes the right things (playing Elves).
Oko is barely playable in timeless. I don't think it's really that oppressive. A lot of the best timeless decks are very close to their modern counter parts
Punishing fire has been awkwardly sitting on that ban list for years. It is way to slow to be dominant in this format, and is only worth running in 1 particular archetype(midrange)
The only issue is that it has pretty reliable turn 3 kill, not saying it's an insane unban but idk if we should add another to the format. Most interaction can break it up
D00m must not watch a lot of legacy. Uro ramps you an untapped land, draws a card and eats a food on etb. It’s a “fair” card sure, but it’s an insanely busted one
@@d00mwake Glimpse is only a Legacy Elves card and even that deck stopped running it and that was before OBM was printed. There is almost no risk in unbanning it. There are just too many tools against a deck that plays 1/1's and that they need to chain them in a specific order to actually go off.
The problem with Fury is that, on top of being an answer to large swath of small creatures, your opponent can drop a 4/4 Double Striker that dodges the vast majority of removal in Modern before you can even get a land into play. Grief is a big jerk, but at least you have a couple turns to rip a Push or Bolt off the top before it kills you.
Except that’s rarely how fury was used. The issue with rakdos scam was always grief and never fury. Grief straight up ripped your answers out of your hand. Fury just gets to sit there, especially if scammed out early for little or no value.
Some of the best timeless decks are very close to their modern counterparts and Uro isn't really played much at all. Neither is oko. I'd even say oko isn't that good
@@joeysmith5767 timeless and modern are very different formats. Uro is a very strong control finisher and grinder, which I imagine doesn’t matter much since the timeless card pool is so powerful, esp for combos. For example: show and tell, turn 1 dark rit necropotence (and necrodimance), field of the dead, natural order, demonic tutor, lurrus, fury
For me the biggest point against unbanning Fury (no matter what happens to Grief) is that it's much more dangerous on the battlefield when it gets scammed. Neither card sparks joy but Grief is a slower card that happens to die to Push (w/ revolt).
Uro is one of the most dangerous cards on the entire list. Absolutely cannot be unbanned. Reason why is a turn has 4 main components. Untap, Draw, Play a land, Attack. Uro is better than half an extra turn . Due to the three life. You get a land drop and a draw. So when you cast it then play it from the yard you have effectively taken an extra turn. While also gaining 6 life.
Seeing someone advocate for the unbanning of Uro in the fetchland format feels like i'm taking crazy pills. Uro is easily one of the best midrange creatures ever printed, and saying you want to boost the midrange style decks is just gonna turn every midrange decks into UGX-piles. I played modern heavily during Uro's haydays, and just because field of the dead and mystic sancturay is banned as well, doesn't excuse this abomination of card design. Phlage is basically fixed Uro, giving you 2 effects on ETB instead of the 3 effects Uro gives you
Guys, let's all be real for a moment. In a format with Push, Binding, Gal Blast, Static Prison, Bolt, Wrath of the Skies, etc., what is Jitte doing on the ban list? Need a good argument for it.
Spoken like a man who hasn't played against Jitte in a while. The solution to a Jitte is to answer literally every creature or lose combat for the remainder of the game.
@@treycuret spoken like someone who s never played Jitte in constructed. Jitte is way past being good enough for modern and this has been the case for years.
@@treycuret Spoken by someone who has not played Jitte in the last 10 years. It's preposterously slow. Kaldra Compleat is a 1 card combo. Colossus Hammer has a strong supporting cast of cards to make it a 2 turn clock. Jitte is still a 4-5 turn clock which does nothing the first combat step. Jitte is a terrible equipment and it's clear you haven't played with it.
You touched on it a bit, but unbanning multiple cards is often the solution. Many of these cards didnt exist together, and if they existed in today's meta together, some wouldnt be a problem. DRS is a house, and at one mana it scares many people. However, a two toughness creature could be kept in check by the other boogeymen. Fury can easily handle it before it can be activated to exile the scam, jitte can handle it as well, and punishing fire. Deathrite shaman as well, can combat well against punishing fire that aims to control it from the gy. Faithless looting could also be kept in check by deathrite shaman if they were banned simultaneously. Hypergenesis is laughable at this point, i genuinely feel very comfortable with a t3 hasteless threat. It's possible that hypergenesis atraxa could be too much, but that deck would have a lot of blank cards, and sideboard interaction. And that leads me to the other problem, the lack of boogeymen. I love seething song and I stopped playing storm entirely after its ban in modern. There are other ways that you already mentioned that you can t2 emrakul, but its the instant speed on it that really makes it unreleasable. Hopefully in mh4 they make sorcery speed seething song that doesn't get a ban. The other fast mana is too strong, and the further we go, even mox amber will eventually be a problem. I've always felt gitaxian probe as a freel spell was strong, but it isn't stronger than scam grief. Grief should go or gitaxian probe should be released. Hot take. I really feel like amulet titan needs another ban, but that deck is just so resilient that even if you banned summoner's pact, or amulet itself, I think that deck would still make it to t1 because its strategy just has too many cards and every set this year its felt like they printed one card after another that could be utilized. All of the tournament category cards should stay banned. My unbans are in this order: Blazing Shoal, Punishing Fire, Hypergenesis, Glimpse of Nature, Fury, One or two artifact lands, deathrite shaman, and uro. Blazing shoal will reinvigorate infect, but can be kept in check with punishing fire/fury. Punishing Fire will possibly see some midrange play and perhaps revitalize jund? But its easily hated out. Hypergenesis is interesting to see, but even with omniscience, its hard to say you just win. We live in a haywire mite world. Glimpse of Nature would help elves, but again, kept in check with punishing fire and fury. Artifact lands are probably needed because affinity is bad right now and even with some recent help, its still doa. Deathrite will keep some fun new cards in check, but also allows for powerful cards to be made in the future that use the graveyard. Uro needs to be watched. Ban nadu/grief/something from titan.
Birthing Pod cannot be unbanned. You mentioned yourself that some cards might make midrange better but combo gets a hold of those cards. Sure Yawg gets Pod but Yawg isn't the best Pod deck. Omnath would be the best Pod deck. Corridor Monitor > Renegade Rallier > Felidar Guardian > Kiki Jiki Mirror Breaker is the Pod chain for kill from a single mana dork. So the game turns into if your opponent remembers to hold up mana because you do have the kill. If they do hold up mana, chain up to Omnath and have a good time
As an omnath player I'd love to have uro back. Turn 2 uro with halfling into turn 3 omnath with a fetch up to play a solitude or an elishnorn to turn 4 phlage and phlage escape for 4 lightning helixes. Not going to happen but sounds so good. Also uro making it so omnath can actually trigger his 3rd landfall trigger fairly reliably
@DEVILONBOTHSHOULDERS with fetches, shocks, trioms, halflings and omnath creating mana, i can see it. We were playing crazy color pips back in yorion days. I'd say it would be 3-4 uro and 1-2 phlage
@@Renamawn WWRR and UUGG in the same deck is a different level of crazy mana costs WWRR and UUGG r both harder to make in a practical setting (ignoring arena of glory) than WURG
@DEVILONBOTHSHOULDERS hard...kind of? but doable. Just need Stomping grounds, Hallowed Fountain, temple garden, steam vents = having uugg when needed and wwrr when needed. Even the crazy god hand (that will probably never happen) above is do able. Most of the time when I play omnath I have those 4 shocks out and/or a triome. Plus omnath is a late game snowball deck so even by turn 4, 5, 6 you should have a wrenn and six and start to be able to play and escape same turns. Especially if you're ramping with uro
I'd like to see Mox Opal unbanned. It hasn't existed in a KCI/Astrolabe-free evironment before and it feels like a reasonable incentive for people to play artifact based strategies again. It's something that also wouldn't feel as bad having it destroyed by FoV or Meltdown unlike the artifact lands.
There's so much efficient artifact removal and ways to deal with Artifacts in Modern. That unbanning the Artifact Lands would be fine. He11, Affinity still probably wouldn't be a top tier deck with the Artifact Lands unbanned.
@@WaldemarBarrientos-ud1nenot glimpse but the others sure. Punishing fire might still be too good for control but it’s atleast possible. Jitte definitely makes creature matchups really hard but it’s not as egregious now cuz the format has become stronger
jitte is the only one that cant agree with, makes any board presence at all outright unwinnable, lets not forget it would go straight into hammertime which was a tier 1 deck just a year ago
The artifact lands were a big problem in the Mirrodin when released, but over time as mass artifact-hate cards got printed, I feel like affinity in general is put in check in a way. You have Shattering Spree / Brotherhood's End in red, Hurkyl's Recall in blue... and now thanks to MH3 you have Meltdown + Wrath of the Skies as well. If ever affinity would get good, you have easy tools for it.
I agree so much with video! I'd like to see a bunch of cards unbanned, even Umezawa's Jitte. Can someone explain why Dark Depths is much too good? It feels to me like there's a bunch of way to deal with a 20/20 indestructible
Not second sunrise. Card is not strong but it makes games way too long. Hypergenesis just takes out 2 tier 1(now tier 2 cuz of mh3) decks completely out of the format since it is just better temur rhino and better living end cuz u are replacing worse creatures or 2 4/4s with much better stuff. It doesn’t add anything good to the format and is still something that isn’t that good for the format with a turn 3 I win with barely any counter play other than counter spells
another person that's never played with deathrite shaman suggesting it can come off the banlist, no it cannot. And before you ask, yes it is that much better than a mana dork.
@@stanislav328 people clearly don't remember why this card got banned in the first place. Every deck ends up just slotting it in that isn't pure control or non creature combo. Boros immediately becomes mardu with 4 more broken 1 drops for example
@@cross25011990 because it's easily splashable, repeatable graveyard hate, life gain, burn, and ramp in 1 card for 1 mana. It looks innocuous but it's very versatile n powerful for barely any sacrifice when deckbuilding.
Lurrus its not that crazy to have unban, gives the oportunnity to create a great mardu aggro deck, that fight really great to all the format. Orcish bowmasters drives nuts with this
I honestly think Birthing Pod could come off the list. One of the reasons they banned it was how hard it was to interact with when played turn 2 on the play. We now have Force of Negation and Force of Vigor. Urza's Saga also finds the Pithing Needle.
I'm going to preface this by saying I have a fully sleeved and fleshed out Twin deck that collects dust: SPLINTER TWIN WILL NEVER COME OFF THE BANLIST.
I started playing modern while twin was still around. Built the drck and got about a month of player before the ban. That deck was so fun to play. T1 cantrip, t2 remand was just satisfying
Twin and uro need to stay on that list. T3feri plus twin would be absolutely obnoxious. Uro is at very least a 2 for 1 but more often than not it's a 3 for 1.
So the last time Golgari Grave-Troll was unbanned faithless looting was legal, honestly having both of these available to dredge was a bit much, but either/or would be absolutely fine imo.
I would agree with the assesment that fast mana can be dangerous. But if Chrome Mox, SSG and Seething Song are no goes, it begs the question: Why the hell did they print Ugin's Labyrinth? WotC clearly disagrees with fast mana being dangerous when making new cards and is keeping these three banned mostly for financial reasons. Treasure Cruise is worse than TOR and plays very differently in a format with Orcish Bowmasters. Harkening back to a time before every single direct to modern set is also a ridiculous argument. Would Bant Nadu even have room for the full playset? Would Boros Energy splash for Cruise? Would Mono-Black decks? Would Eldrazi Tron? Storm? Your hottest take isn't saying Oko could be unbanned (that's obvious), it's saying that he's uninteresting. In what possible world is a planeswalker that: A. Can't draw cards and B. Encourages playing to the board uninteresting? What other modern staple is supposed to be more interesting? Galvanic Discharge or Consign to Memory? Lurrus or Uro? Is Teferi or Karn a more interesting planeswalker than Oko?
Id like punishing fire, it would open up jund to playing grove with some ways to go late. Unbanning artifact lands makes those decks t1, but is that a bad thing? I’ve been a long time advocate for deathrite back, he was just too strong for his time period but he’s on par with mh2 and 3
Deathrite is problematic for a lot of the reasons astrolabe is. Also, I feel like whenever people talk about cards being banned for other cards' sins (mox opal for a while, Bridge banned before Hogaak), we just pretend that fetchlands don't exist. Like half of the banlist is there because of fetchlands, but people don't propose we ban them ever. I'd like to see a no fetchland modern tourney with some fetch based unbans, though maybe it would just be boring 1-2 color decks and eldrazi.
I would say that grief feels more frustrating to play against, but fury is undoubtedly more busted and deserves the ban. I would say that what makes fury the most powerful of all the free elementals, is that it mitigates its own downside. Because the 4 damage is divided among different units, it's never going to be a two-for-one unlike the other cards in the cycle. It usually amounts to a two for two, or even a two for three (or two-for-four if the stars align). scamming it only pushes it over the top, because it comes back as a threatening 4/4 double strike body that dodges clean removal like bolt or fatal push.
Modern is already more or less ruined due to the constant power creep fueled by Hasbro's unbridled hunger for short-term profit, so any ill-conceived unbannings is the last thing that we need.
Sorry, but as long as force of negation exists in modern, SSG, seething song, and possibly rite of flame can safely come back. How are fast mana spells banned but free spells mostly aren't?
Lurrus would be AWESOME alongside Ajani, Ocelot Pride, Guide of Souls, a nice little package to recur with Lurrus that isn't SUPER busted😅😅 Also With regards to Violent Outburst staying on Why not just ban Living End?😅 I agree instant speed 3 mana wrath us NUTS
@@stanislav328 eh, kinda disagree, as you have Nightmare and friends at 2 or less cmc to make a viable list IF they do unban it, I WILL be brewing lists with Lurrus And I simply believe this because Phlage isn't EXILE based-removal But that's just the two cents of someone who's played modern since 2019 and has AVIDLY watched old SCG Tour videos to self-teach myself the format XD XP
@@FalloutFan011 it would defiintely be strong and worth testing. I just believe phlage is too damn good to cut. You also lose out on some other great cards like blood moon and fable. Lurrus makes up for a lot of grind game, but don't forget the card was banned before ToR was printed, so we haven't seen those two match up against eachother yet
@@stanislav328 I would LOVE to see OR be on either side, piloting EITHER list 😁😁 They both have their good and bad matchups Personally I feel in love with Lurrus And wasn't able to play much magic in shop when it was legal.. So I'm hoping he sees an unban 😅
Would be nice! No ban modern would be really good. Bring all kinds of decks back. Wizards would re ban monthly. Maybe un ban again yearly? Keep the format fresh and evolving. Need to see who would be on top/S tier. Prices would skyrocket!
11:05 D00m has clearly not played against Uro recently. Phlage escapes and is like "Wow, that's powerful! I better kill it before it kills me!" Uro escapes is like, "oh, now they have six lands in play and five cards in hand. I'm dead, aren't I."
This video (and some of these comments) are just people who haven't played against the horribly designed card recently enough to realize how awful they are. Lurrus, Fury, and Uro aren't just collateral damage from other decks. They're format warping engines that break most decks they're in.
@@JohnFromAccounting oh yea, Ring is messed up too. If it had the Seven Dwarves text ("A deck may have one copy of a card named The One Ring") it would probably be fine, but "new ring, another turn of protection, reset the damage I'm taking" is just nuts.
I play against uro all the time its not even that strong. Wow dog, you dropped another Tundra! I'm gonna go ahead and tap my Cloudpost and hardcast this emrakul
Why is dark depths busted? With grazer I could see a turn 3 marit lage but that is not that hard to answer. Brazen borrower, solitude, sheoldred edict, ect and of the do answer it you just lose. No crop rotation or exploration. Is it becuase titan?
imo, deathrite shaman is just not the 1 mana planewalker it was with the amount of other great 1 mana creatures exist, should be taken off, punishing fire is way too slow should come off, glimpse of nature is a great card in elves but lets be honest, they have a two mana version playable rn and it sees 0 play, 1 mana version might see some play, glimpse should come off, splinter twin cause a turn 4 combo aint gonna cut it nowadays, blazing shoal cause why was it on there anyways, im not sure it would see play and if it did i would be interested to see what deck could afford to play it, although fury and that card cannot exist in same format, so one or the other, finally maybe birthing pod but im a little cautious on that one and lets be honest most of these cards would fine if restricted to 1 or 2 hate calling it a B&"R" announcement when nothing ever gets restricted
Maybe I'm completely off base, but I worry that unban birthing pod would just give energy another sticky value option more than bringing yawgmoth back.
This video and the comments have made me a lot more sympathetic to the designers at Wizards. They at least have very limited data, time, and resources to create these cards. With all the playtesting, data sets, and resources we have available, there are still people who have the thousands of games and dozens of tournaments with Oko and Lurrus thinking that unbanning them is a possibility.
Lurrus wouldn't fit into any of the top strategies over the last two years of modern. Amulet, Tron, Scam, Murktide, yawg, 4 color, cascade decks, mono B, Nadu. The main concern I would say is the energy decks, but you lose out on the opportunity to run phlage, fable, or blood moon, so there are sacrifices to be made.
I would add Lurrus to safe unbans. Especially if you're already unbanning Fury. Lurus was never banned for being OP. It was banned for format saturation. Lurrus came up in like 1/10 games to do anything. In a format as fast as modern, this card needs to be put into hand at sorcery speed for 3 mana then cast for 3 mana then hope it lives and probably get one piece of value off of it realistically before its answered. Would any of the top decks right now drop everything they are doing to play Lurrus? Absolutely not. It cannot be played with Phlage and no one would give up Phlage for it. What decks would it enable to want to play it? Hammer, Jund Saga, Burn, Death Shadow. None of those decks are problematic. No one would really be upset to see them back in the meta. I think Lurrus is the honest to God safest and most benevolent unban option on the list. I agree with the rest of your picks. Uro and Fury especially.
100%. The fact that when I look at Lurrus now in the context of Modern I'm like thinking of how cool it'd be to run a couple copies in Boros Energy means it's probably fine to come off the ban list. Like, I think it will see a ton of play if it does get unbanned, but honestly think the majority of it will be in the main deck, because it's not worth giving up Fable, Grief, Solitude, Phlage, the One Ring, Blood Moon, and so on.
I've had discussions with my local group. The current thoughts to take off are tree of tales, punishing fire, fury if grief goes, hypergenesis, glimpse of nature, pod, blazing Shoal, seething song, Dr.s, and twin. Would also like to see Nadu, ring, and grief all go
Haven’t we learned that having four of staples for our decks make discard *cough cough grief still good but not the shit honestly* makes discards more irrelevant? You still have more your cards to get with the value and one ring in your deck that are the same than the one they discarded and you can tutor too or have other cards that push through regardless. Modern is a format where pulling out of having no cards in hand isn’t hard anymore and value engines can surpass discard spells. Not to even mention the fact beforehand your opponent is removing card slots to actively have the discard scam and choose and remove cards even since those cards have value after the thoughtseize effects by having targets to directly remove from the opponents deck with early graveyard targets. And opponents have value with putting cards in the graveyard when you discard them anyways it just seems other cards like nadu ajani, ocelot, one ring, necro, those are just some names to list for cards that are better than grief some already asking to be banned while others came generate insane value taking up one *cough cough* ONE card slot to snow ball the game where as grief needs support to my case here
The hard part about justifying Yorion as a "dexterity" ban is that it is perfectly legal not only in legacy but also in pioneer and sees play in both formats. We just had a full Pioneer paper RCQ season with the card still legal. If we want to keep the card banned for other reasons that's fine but I don't think dexterity is a reasonable reason to cite for the ban when it is not banned anywhere else for that reason.
Edit: I seem to have forgotten about Glimpse of Nature in the video 😂 I had it in the list of "combo cards" but just skipped over it.
Glimpse is a controversial one but for me I think the card itself might be a bit too powerful even if it incentivizes the right things (playing Elves).
Astrolabe falls into the same category as misstep and probe. They just break the basic rules of the game and should never come off
bro said Oko might be safe in a format with Delighted Halfling
There’s a lot of bad takes in this video
We have subtlety now to "counter" that interaction lol
Oko is barely playable in timeless. I don't think it's really that oppressive. A lot of the best timeless decks are very close to their modern counter parts
We have so many more ways to kill a high loyalty PW now. I honestly think Oko is in the top 5 of cards that would be fine to be unbanned.
@@joeysmith5767 we know literaly nothing about timless as no good players play it.
Punishing fire has been awkwardly sitting on that ban list for years. It is way to slow to be dominant in this format, and is only worth running in 1 particular archetype(midrange)
With the way cards have been printed archetype boundaries have been muddied that you cant differentiate them anymore
It's really sad
UNBAN PUNISHING FIRE AND DRS
I feel like pod is completely fine to unban in a format with the ring. It would probably even be unplayable in the current environment
Birthing ritual is hardly played outside of some niche decks I don't think pod will be at all playable outside of yawg
The only issue is that it has pretty reliable turn 3 kill, not saying it's an insane unban but idk if we should add another to the format. Most interaction can break it up
Pod kills you surely on turn 3, and it has a lot , a lot of variants of decks that can actually kill you. Its just a no no
@@WaldemarBarrientos-ud1ne the format has a lot more interaction to break it up and storm can kill on turn 2
Pod could get unbanned and actively buffed and would still be fringe.
D00m must not watch a lot of legacy. Uro ramps you an untapped land, draws a card and eats a food on etb. It’s a “fair” card sure, but it’s an insanely busted one
Did I have a stroke or did Glimpse of Nature get cut from the video?
Nah you right I had it on my list under "combo cards" but somehow managed to gloss over it. I think Glimpse would be fine but a relatively large risk
@@d00mwake haha I came ask about this same thing. Thank you!
@@d00mwake so its a fine risk to take?
@@d00mwake Glimpse is only a Legacy Elves card and even that deck stopped running it and that was before OBM was printed. There is almost no risk in unbanning it. There are just too many tools against a deck that plays 1/1's and that they need to chain them in a specific order to actually go off.
@@d00mwake I'd say that's a very safe unban. I really want them to reset the banlist
Just a reminder, lurrus is a cat for ajani, and it’s very free and also just busted
The problem with Fury is that, on top of being an answer to large swath of small creatures, your opponent can drop a 4/4 Double Striker that dodges the vast majority of removal in Modern before you can even get a land into play.
Grief is a big jerk, but at least you have a couple turns to rip a Push or Bolt off the top before it kills you.
Phlage is what Fury should have been. We don't need it. We don't want it. Keep it out.
or bowmaster, or amped raptor into a creature /removal spell, or ajani, but yeah lots of answers nowadays for grief
Except that’s rarely how fury was used. The issue with rakdos scam was always grief and never fury. Grief straight up ripped your answers out of your hand. Fury just gets to sit there, especially if scammed out early for little or no value.
Sword of plowshares need to printed into modern
@@ecpracticesquad4674 Right. It gets to sit there threatening lethal. With the best you can hope for in early answers being chump blockers.
Unbanning Uro would be WILD lol
Simic Control with the one ring would be exactly like jeskai control with phlage and the one ring
@@Jace9IXnah. Ring has answers that are mana positive and card neutral. Uro has no 1 for 1 answers that go up on mana
@@Jace9IXUro >>> Phlage. People have just forgotten how good Uro is
Some of the best timeless decks are very close to their modern counterparts and Uro isn't really played much at all. Neither is oko. I'd even say oko isn't that good
@@joeysmith5767 timeless and modern are very different formats. Uro is a very strong control finisher and grinder, which I imagine doesn’t matter much since the timeless card pool is so powerful, esp for combos.
For example: show and tell, turn 1 dark rit necropotence (and necrodimance), field of the dead, natural order, demonic tutor, lurrus, fury
lurrus is going to be even better nowadays, RW energy pretty much 2 or less
For me the biggest point against unbanning Fury (no matter what happens to Grief) is that it's much more dangerous on the battlefield when it gets scammed. Neither card sparks joy but Grief is a slower card that happens to die to Push (w/ revolt).
Artifact lands are fine. Wrath the skies exists.
Uro is one of the most dangerous cards on the entire list. Absolutely cannot be unbanned.
Reason why is a turn has 4 main components. Untap, Draw, Play a land, Attack. Uro is better than half an extra turn . Due to the three life. You get a land drop and a draw. So when you cast it then play it from the yard you have effectively taken an extra turn. While also gaining 6 life.
The secret downside to wotc being so on the ball banning oko Fast. People aren’t traumatized enough to recognize that oko is never unbannable
In a format full of Phlages and evoke elementals, I can't imagine Bridge from Below would be even remotely playable.
Seeing someone advocate for the unbanning of Uro in the fetchland format feels like i'm taking crazy pills. Uro is easily one of the best midrange creatures ever printed, and saying you want to boost the midrange style decks is just gonna turn every midrange decks into UGX-piles. I played modern heavily during Uro's haydays, and just because field of the dead and mystic sancturay is banned as well, doesn't excuse this abomination of card design. Phlage is basically fixed Uro, giving you 2 effects on ETB instead of the 3 effects Uro gives you
Fury got banned so they could sale all those small creatures in MH3
☝🏼you know !
Ok, now that we have seen them enough, we can unban Fury, right?
Fury was much more about getting for 1 mana a 4/4 double strike hard to remove
fury was banned because it was an oppressive, unfair, and unbalanced card.
@@StardustmiragedestinFury is not a 4/4. The problem is the 1 mana instant speed reanimation with no drawback.
Guys, let's all be real for a moment. In a format with Push, Binding, Gal Blast, Static Prison, Bolt, Wrath of the Skies, etc., what is Jitte doing on the ban list? Need a good argument for it.
Spoken like a man who hasn't played against Jitte in a while. The solution to a Jitte is to answer literally every creature or lose combat for the remainder of the game.
@@treycuret who needs combat to win the game?
@@treycuret spoken like someone who s never played Jitte in constructed. Jitte is way past being good enough for modern and this has been the case for years.
@@treycuret Spoken by someone who has not played Jitte in the last 10 years. It's preposterously slow. Kaldra Compleat is a 1 card combo. Colossus Hammer has a strong supporting cast of cards to make it a 2 turn clock. Jitte is still a 4-5 turn clock which does nothing the first combat step. Jitte is a terrible equipment and it's clear you haven't played with it.
@@treycuret spoken like a man that has never seen what leyline binding or static prison can do to a nonland permanenent.
07:30 Scam was the hero all along! Absolutely nothing is wrong with the design of the elemental incarnations when compared to the rest of the meta.
Excellent video
You touched on it a bit, but unbanning multiple cards is often the solution. Many of these cards didnt exist together, and if they existed in today's meta together, some wouldnt be a problem. DRS is a house, and at one mana it scares many people. However, a two toughness creature could be kept in check by the other boogeymen. Fury can easily handle it before it can be activated to exile the scam, jitte can handle it as well, and punishing fire. Deathrite shaman as well, can combat well against punishing fire that aims to control it from the gy. Faithless looting could also be kept in check by deathrite shaman if they were banned simultaneously. Hypergenesis is laughable at this point, i genuinely feel very comfortable with a t3 hasteless threat. It's possible that hypergenesis atraxa could be too much, but that deck would have a lot of blank cards, and sideboard interaction.
And that leads me to the other problem, the lack of boogeymen. I love seething song and I stopped playing storm entirely after its ban in modern. There are other ways that you already mentioned that you can t2 emrakul, but its the instant speed on it that really makes it unreleasable. Hopefully in mh4 they make sorcery speed seething song that doesn't get a ban. The other fast mana is too strong, and the further we go, even mox amber will eventually be a problem.
I've always felt gitaxian probe as a freel spell was strong, but it isn't stronger than scam grief. Grief should go or gitaxian probe should be released. Hot take.
I really feel like amulet titan needs another ban, but that deck is just so resilient that even if you banned summoner's pact, or amulet itself, I think that deck would still make it to t1 because its strategy just has too many cards and every set this year its felt like they printed one card after another that could be utilized.
All of the tournament category cards should stay banned.
My unbans are in this order: Blazing Shoal, Punishing Fire, Hypergenesis, Glimpse of Nature, Fury, One or two artifact lands, deathrite shaman, and uro. Blazing shoal will reinvigorate infect, but can be kept in check with punishing fire/fury. Punishing Fire will possibly see some midrange play and perhaps revitalize jund? But its easily hated out. Hypergenesis is interesting to see, but even with omniscience, its hard to say you just win. We live in a haywire mite world. Glimpse of Nature would help elves, but again, kept in check with punishing fire and fury. Artifact lands are probably needed because affinity is bad right now and even with some recent help, its still doa. Deathrite will keep some fun new cards in check, but also allows for powerful cards to be made in the future that use the graveyard. Uro needs to be watched.
Ban nadu/grief/something from titan.
it’s interesting that you are against astrolabe but for shaman, considering both are the same catd
Birthing Pod cannot be unbanned. You mentioned yourself that some cards might make midrange better but combo gets a hold of those cards. Sure Yawg gets Pod but Yawg isn't the best Pod deck. Omnath would be the best Pod deck. Corridor Monitor > Renegade Rallier > Felidar Guardian > Kiki Jiki Mirror Breaker is the Pod chain for kill from a single mana dork. So the game turns into if your opponent remembers to hold up mana because you do have the kill. If they do hold up mana, chain up to Omnath and have a good time
10:25 Necrodominance with Deathrite 😱
Looting is such a pipe dream to come off the list so that my shitty hollowvine list gets an upgrade, then I get Atraxa goryo t2 due to t1 looting
As an omnath player I'd love to have uro back. Turn 2 uro with halfling into turn 3 omnath with a fetch up to play a solitude or an elishnorn to turn 4 phlage and phlage escape for 4 lightning helixes. Not going to happen but sounds so good. Also uro making it so omnath can actually trigger his 3rd landfall trigger fairly reliably
Uro would also flex all over Phlage.
uro and phlage r basically impossible to play in one deck
@DEVILONBOTHSHOULDERS with fetches, shocks, trioms, halflings and omnath creating mana, i can see it. We were playing crazy color pips back in yorion days. I'd say it would be 3-4 uro and 1-2 phlage
@@Renamawn WWRR and UUGG in the same deck is a different level of crazy mana costs
WWRR and UUGG r both harder to make in a practical setting (ignoring arena of glory) than WURG
@DEVILONBOTHSHOULDERS hard...kind of? but doable. Just need Stomping grounds, Hallowed Fountain, temple garden, steam vents = having uugg when needed and wwrr when needed. Even the crazy god hand (that will probably never happen) above is do able. Most of the time when I play omnath I have those 4 shocks out and/or a triome. Plus omnath is a late game snowball deck so even by turn 4, 5, 6 you should have a wrenn and six and start to be able to play and escape same turns. Especially if you're ramping with uro
I'd like to see Mox Opal unbanned. It hasn't existed in a KCI/Astrolabe-free evironment before and it feels like a reasonable incentive for people to play artifact based strategies again. It's something that also wouldn't feel as bad having it destroyed by FoV or Meltdown unlike the artifact lands.
It feels silly saying this but I kind of miss lantern control.
There's so much efficient artifact removal and ways to deal with Artifacts in Modern. That unbanning the Artifact Lands would be fine. He11, Affinity still probably wouldn't be a top tier deck with the Artifact Lands unbanned.
Unban: Umezawa's Jitte, Punishing fire and Glimpse of nature, the format is just more powerful than before.
Jitte is too expensive to the format.
@@WaldemarBarrientos-ud1nenot glimpse but the others sure. Punishing fire might still be too good for control but it’s atleast possible. Jitte definitely makes creature matchups really hard but it’s not as egregious now cuz the format has become stronger
jitte is the only one that cant agree with, makes any board presence at all outright unwinnable, lets not forget it would go straight into hammertime which was a tier 1 deck just a year ago
@@TheeGoodSirEver try to race an Atraxa? That's kind of how Jitte feels, except it applies to every single creature.
@@TheeGoodSir you have not played Jitte or modern for a very long time if you think the card is still relevant to the ban list
I played mycosynth for years in artifact decks before karn, nothing beat scrap mastery
Oh god not uro. That's wack. Fury is also bad. Punishing fire is probably ok though, not worried about that one.
Unban: Twin, artifact lands, punishing fire, jitte, and maybe death rite.
i'll come back when oko does.
The artifact lands were a big problem in the Mirrodin when released, but over time as mass artifact-hate cards got printed, I feel like affinity in general is put in check in a way. You have Shattering Spree / Brotherhood's End in red, Hurkyl's Recall in blue... and now thanks to MH3 you have Meltdown + Wrath of the Skies as well. If ever affinity would get good, you have easy tools for it.
The white, red, and black ones should have came off after the Opal ban, now they just look silly on the bnr
Loving these discussions. Talk about pioneer ban list next! I think we can keep Sorin, if we ban fable!
Favorite video you've ever done
I love this kind of videos ;)
I agree so much with video! I'd like to see a bunch of cards unbanned, even Umezawa's Jitte.
Can someone explain why Dark Depths is much too good? It feels to me like there's a bunch of way to deal with a 20/20 indestructible
Unban birthing pod but you have to register at least 1 siege rhino
blazing shoall, hyper genesis, Jitte, Deathrite Shaman, Second Sunrise, splinter twin and punishing fire should be all unbanned
Not second sunrise. Card is not strong but it makes games way too long. Hypergenesis just takes out 2 tier 1(now tier 2 cuz of mh3) decks completely out of the format since it is just better temur rhino and better living end cuz u are replacing worse creatures or 2 4/4s with much better stuff. It doesn’t add anything good to the format and is still something that isn’t that good for the format with a turn 3 I win with barely any counter play other than counter spells
another person that's never played with deathrite shaman suggesting it can come off the banlist, no it cannot. And before you ask, yes it is that much better than a mana dork.
@@stanislav328 people clearly don't remember why this card got banned in the first place. Every deck ends up just slotting it in that isn't pure control or non creature combo. Boros immediately becomes mardu with 4 more broken 1 drops for example
I still don't know, why they were banning desthrite shaman
@@cross25011990 because it's easily splashable, repeatable graveyard hate, life gain, burn, and ramp in 1 card for 1 mana. It looks innocuous but it's very versatile n powerful for barely any sacrifice when deckbuilding.
If Fury Had First Strike I would agree double strike makes the creature massively better than all of the other elementals
Lurrus its not that crazy to have unban, gives the oportunnity to create a great mardu aggro deck, that fight really great to all the format. Orcish bowmasters drives nuts with this
I honestly think Birthing Pod could come off the list. One of the reasons they banned it was how hard it was to interact with when played turn 2 on the play. We now have Force of Negation and Force of Vigor. Urza's Saga also finds the Pithing Needle.
I feel like oko could be unbanned if fury was
I'm going to preface this by saying I have a fully sleeved and fleshed out Twin deck that collects dust:
SPLINTER TWIN WILL NEVER COME OFF THE BANLIST.
I started playing modern while twin was still around. Built the drck and got about a month of player before the ban. That deck was so fun to play. T1 cantrip, t2 remand was just satisfying
Unban Ponder
Twin and uro need to stay on that list. T3feri plus twin would be absolutely obnoxious. Uro is at very least a 2 for 1 but more often than not it's a 3 for 1.
When did you talk about Glimpse of Nature?
This is my favorite content
i like the idea that violent outburst would put nadu more in check
So the last time Golgari Grave-Troll was unbanned faithless looting was legal, honestly having both of these available to dredge was a bit much, but either/or would be absolutely fine imo.
Unban top, print miracles🎉
Serious talk, uro might be ok, especially in a current meta.
Good video interaction go brrr
I would agree with the assesment that fast mana can be dangerous. But if Chrome Mox, SSG and Seething Song are no goes, it begs the question: Why the hell did they print Ugin's Labyrinth? WotC clearly disagrees with fast mana being dangerous when making new cards and is keeping these three banned mostly for financial reasons.
Treasure Cruise is worse than TOR and plays very differently in a format with Orcish Bowmasters. Harkening back to a time before every single direct to modern set is also a ridiculous argument. Would Bant Nadu even have room for the full playset? Would Boros Energy splash for Cruise? Would Mono-Black decks? Would Eldrazi Tron? Storm?
Your hottest take isn't saying Oko could be unbanned (that's obvious), it's saying that he's uninteresting.
In what possible world is a planeswalker that:
A. Can't draw cards and B. Encourages playing to the board uninteresting?
What other modern staple is supposed to be more interesting? Galvanic Discharge or Consign to Memory? Lurrus or Uro? Is Teferi or Karn a more interesting planeswalker than Oko?
Ugin's is beautiful design in that it's nothing like Tomb/City and would never be playable in Affinity or combo that doesn't involve Eldrazi
Uro died for sanctuarys sins
unban glimpse p fire jitte uro shoal fury twin artifact lands DRS ponder hyperg lurros mystic bean if no fury looting outburst and bridge
I think Jitte would be fine. I don’t think twin will add anything to the format.
I'd want pod unbanned. The deck was just fun to play with and against.
love the discussion content, I rarely comment but these are my fav
Id like punishing fire, it would open up jund to playing grove with some ways to go late.
Unbanning artifact lands makes those decks t1, but is that a bad thing? I’ve been a long time advocate for deathrite back, he was just too strong for his time period but he’s on par with mh2 and 3
The format is essentially Legacy already anyways
Deathrite is problematic for a lot of the reasons astrolabe is. Also, I feel like whenever people talk about cards being banned for other cards' sins (mox opal for a while, Bridge banned before Hogaak), we just pretend that fetchlands don't exist. Like half of the banlist is there because of fetchlands, but people don't propose we ban them ever. I'd like to see a no fetchland modern tourney with some fetch based unbans, though maybe it would just be boring 1-2 color decks and eldrazi.
Deathrite and Astrolabe are not banned for the same reason at all.
Pioneer exists as the fetchless format so there is no reason to ever ban fetchlands in modern.
I would say that grief feels more frustrating to play against, but fury is undoubtedly more busted and deserves the ban. I would say that what makes fury the most powerful of all the free elementals, is that it mitigates its own downside. Because the 4 damage is divided among different units, it's never going to be a two-for-one unlike the other cards in the cycle. It usually amounts to a two for two, or even a two for three (or two-for-four if the stars align). scamming it only pushes it over the top, because it comes back as a threatening 4/4 double strike body that dodges clean removal like bolt or fatal push.
I can't with the doomsayers who got traumatized by a card that overperformed when the meta was boomer Jund
Modern is already more or less ruined due to the constant power creep fueled by Hasbro's unbridled hunger for short-term profit, so any ill-conceived unbannings is the last thing that we need.
congrats on the 15k d00mies!!!🎉🎉🎉
lurrus and fury definitely okay
I don't think Ponder is a time taking issue. It's fine in legacy
Sorry, but as long as force of negation exists in modern, SSG, seething song, and possibly rite of flame can safely come back. How are fast mana spells banned but free spells mostly aren't?
Lurrus would be AWESOME alongside Ajani, Ocelot Pride, Guide of Souls, a nice little package to recur with Lurrus that isn't SUPER busted😅😅
Also
With regards to Violent Outburst staying on
Why not just ban Living End?😅
I agree instant speed 3 mana wrath us NUTS
funnily enough lurrus probably wouldnt cut it in the current Boros/Mardu energy decks, as phlage is just that good.
@@stanislav328 eh, kinda disagree, as you have Nightmare and friends at 2 or less cmc to make a viable list
IF they do unban it, I WILL be brewing lists with Lurrus
And I simply believe this because Phlage isn't EXILE based-removal
But that's just the two cents of someone who's played modern since 2019 and has AVIDLY watched old SCG Tour videos to self-teach myself the format XD XP
@@FalloutFan011 a lurrus companion in boros is infinitely stronger than phlage imo. Just turn 4 plage into 4 babble and your deck is busted
@@FalloutFan011 it would defiintely be strong and worth testing. I just believe phlage is too damn good to cut. You also lose out on some other great cards like blood moon and fable. Lurrus makes up for a lot of grind game, but don't forget the card was banned before ToR was printed, so we haven't seen those two match up against eachother yet
@@stanislav328 I would LOVE to see OR be on either side, piloting EITHER list 😁😁
They both have their good and bad matchups
Personally
I feel in love with Lurrus
And wasn't able to play much magic in shop when it was legal..
So I'm hoping he sees an unban 😅
give me the artifact lands lets go baby.
I forgot how much fun it was to yell "Hoooooooo gak ak ak ak" (the more you like Jim dugan the better)
How is blazing shoal worse than hammer if the hammer can be killed, and wouldn't be a combo like to win on the spot if we untap with B. Pod?
Would be nice! No ban modern would be really good. Bring all kinds of decks back. Wizards would re ban monthly. Maybe un ban again yearly? Keep the format fresh and evolving. Need to see who would be on top/S tier. Prices would skyrocket!
Fury is as bad as Grief.
Fury was more cancerous for the format than grief, the fact that grief still is a problem is a testament of how insane fury was
this doesn't make sense lol
Bridge from Below got banned for the sins of Hogaak.
11:05 D00m has clearly not played against Uro recently. Phlage escapes and is like "Wow, that's powerful! I better kill it before it kills me!"
Uro escapes is like, "oh, now they have six lands in play and five cards in hand. I'm dead, aren't I."
Uro would flex all over Phlage and it’s not even close.
This video (and some of these comments) are just people who haven't played against the horribly designed card recently enough to realize how awful they are. Lurrus, Fury, and Uro aren't just collateral damage from other decks. They're format warping engines that break most decks they're in.
Uro is a control top-end. Just ban the Ring and let control have Uro instead.
@@JohnFromAccounting oh yea, Ring is messed up too. If it had the Seven Dwarves text ("A deck may have one copy of a card named The One Ring") it would probably be fine, but "new ring, another turn of protection, reset the damage I'm taking" is just nuts.
I play against uro all the time its not even that strong.
Wow dog, you dropped another Tundra! I'm gonna go ahead and tap my Cloudpost and hardcast this emrakul
Lattice did nothing wrong and never deserved to be on the list in the first place.
Why is dark depths busted? With grazer I could see a turn 3 marit lage but that is not that hard to answer. Brazen borrower, solitude, sheoldred edict, ect and of the do answer it you just lose. No crop rotation or exploration. Is it becuase titan?
depths is very much kept in check in legacy by wasteland’s chokehold over the format
also yeah titan
What about glimpse of nature?
I would love to play with uro and ponder in modern.
I think a bunch of cards could be unbanned but Wizards doesn't make money from unbanning cards so they will just keep rotating the format
Now how many of those cards on the list would be okay restricted to 1?
You'd enjoy timeless i think
imo, deathrite shaman is just not the 1 mana planewalker it was with the amount of other great 1 mana creatures exist, should be taken off, punishing fire is way too slow should come off, glimpse of nature is a great card in elves but lets be honest, they have a two mana version playable rn and it sees 0 play, 1 mana version might see some play, glimpse should come off, splinter twin cause a turn 4 combo aint gonna cut it nowadays, blazing shoal cause why was it on there anyways, im not sure it would see play and if it did i would be interested to see what deck could afford to play it, although fury and that card cannot exist in same format, so one or the other, finally maybe birthing pod but im a little cautious on that one and lets be honest most of these cards would fine if restricted to 1 or 2 hate calling it a B&"R" announcement when nothing ever gets restricted
Maybe I'm completely off base, but I worry that unban birthing pod would just give energy another sticky value option more than bringing yawgmoth back.
This video and the comments have made me a lot more sympathetic to the designers at Wizards.
They at least have very limited data, time, and resources to create these cards.
With all the playtesting, data sets, and resources we have available, there are still people who have the thousands of games and dozens of tournaments with Oko and Lurrus thinking that unbanning them is a possibility.
I miss skullclamp, artifact lands and disciple of the vault 😂
Lurrus wouldn't fit into any of the top strategies over the last two years of modern. Amulet, Tron, Scam, Murktide, yawg, 4 color, cascade decks, mono B, Nadu. The main concern I would say is the energy decks, but you lose out on the opportunity to run phlage, fable, or blood moon, so there are sacrifices to be made.
Is second sunrise even playable w/o KCI?
I want deathrite shaman in modern again. We need a good mana dork!
so much has changed since DRS was banned, it's probably fine tbh, esp after Ragavan. DRS also eats Uros
I would add Lurrus to safe unbans. Especially if you're already unbanning Fury. Lurus was never banned for being OP. It was banned for format saturation. Lurrus came up in like 1/10 games to do anything. In a format as fast as modern, this card needs to be put into hand at sorcery speed for 3 mana then cast for 3 mana then hope it lives and probably get one piece of value off of it realistically before its answered. Would any of the top decks right now drop everything they are doing to play Lurrus? Absolutely not. It cannot be played with Phlage and no one would give up Phlage for it. What decks would it enable to want to play it? Hammer, Jund Saga, Burn, Death Shadow. None of those decks are problematic. No one would really be upset to see them back in the meta. I think Lurrus is the honest to God safest and most benevolent unban option on the list. I agree with the rest of your picks. Uro and Fury especially.
100%. The fact that when I look at Lurrus now in the context of Modern I'm like thinking of how cool it'd be to run a couple copies in Boros Energy means it's probably fine to come off the ban list. Like, I think it will see a ton of play if it does get unbanned, but honestly think the majority of it will be in the main deck, because it's not worth giving up Fable, Grief, Solitude, Phlage, the One Ring, Blood Moon, and so on.
@@sgjuxta Lurrus is such a fun card to play in main deck. I used to play it in Jund with Lilianas. Great times!
Scam is horrible! Way worse than storm/nadu!
Grief ban would be my dream come true.
I've had discussions with my local group. The current thoughts to take off are tree of tales, punishing fire, fury if grief goes, hypergenesis, glimpse of nature, pod, blazing Shoal, seething song, Dr.s, and twin. Would also like to see Nadu, ring, and grief all go
Haven’t we learned that having four of staples for our decks make discard *cough cough grief still good but not the shit honestly* makes discards more irrelevant? You still have more your cards to get with the value and one ring in your deck that are the same than the one they discarded and you can tutor too or have other cards that push through regardless. Modern is a format where pulling out of having no cards in hand isn’t hard anymore and value engines can surpass discard spells. Not to even mention the fact beforehand your opponent is removing card slots to actively have the discard scam and choose and remove cards even since those cards have value after the thoughtseize effects by having targets to directly remove from the opponents deck with early graveyard targets. And opponents have value with putting cards in the graveyard when you discard them anyways it just seems other cards like nadu ajani, ocelot, one ring, necro, those are just some names to list for cards that are better than grief some already asking to be banned while others came generate insane value taking up one *cough cough* ONE card slot to snow ball the game where as grief needs support to my case here
Bridge from below should be unbanned!
Ill never understand the up the beanstalk ban
The hard part about justifying Yorion as a "dexterity" ban is that it is perfectly legal not only in legacy but also in pioneer and sees play in both formats. We just had a full Pioneer paper RCQ season with the card still legal. If we want to keep the card banned for other reasons that's fine but I don't think dexterity is a reasonable reason to cite for the ban when it is not banned anywhere else for that reason.