This brings up some great points. And the more i think of it, it seems that having a hilt that's *just* long enough for two hands would be advantageous if one wanted it to be still somewhat usable with one hand.
Great video, Matt! Weird that I haven't seen it before... Anyway, I think you're absolutely right. We can expand this from swords to any weapon, really. One should always seek a compromise between the weapon (system) you're most comfortable (skilled) with, and what might suit the situation (everything from ambient temperatures to wielding it, from weight to reach to [likely] opponent and his weapon [system], etc.). So, like you always keep saying... Context, context, context. :P Keep up the great videos, Matt!
In modern use, yes.However, in the 14th/15th century the term 'bastard sword' was only occasionally used and we don't know exactly what it meant. Equally, the term 'longsword' meant different things to different people in different times and places. In 17th century England, for example, it meant a rapier or long sidesword. But in modern HEMA use, yes bastard sword, hand-and-a-half-sword and longsword are the same thing.
Worth noting is that length of sword increases in the German system the farther away it gets from the mounted material and towards a weapon for citizen militias or mercenaries, the pictures of Swiss mercenaries in Diebold Schilling have Feder sized longswords. This also goes along with a big shift in how the weapons was used.
Yes, true in regard to something like a grossemesser, which has no English term. But 'zweihander' particularly annoys me because two-handed sword is a perfect adequate English term. And added to that, many existing original two-handed swords are not German, but rather Italian, Spanish and other nationalities. It's not like it is a German style of sword (in fact the classic 16thC two-hander seems to be basically Italian).
Thanks. We usually wear lots of protective gear with 'federschwert' type swords and do not reduce the force of our blows. However, training with less protective gear and more control is useful as well. Every type of training forms part of the 'Great Triangulation', which I posted a video about.
Thanks. For big two-handers you have the late German sources like 'Goliath' and certain Italian sources, such as Alfieri and Di Grassi. I believe that there is a recent book published on Alfieri's 'Spadone'.
Might've been a long rambling one, but rather liked the last part (including the annotation about long hilts and it getting in the way of polearms etc). It's something rarely considered these days when an average person ever thinks about a sword, that they were considered a sidearm and except for some battlefield weapons primarily meant to be carried around all day while going about your business in life.
a further thought, has anybody else realised that this tendency for longer hilts is actually sword choice changing to evolving circumstances just as they did Historically? for the first time in 500 years or so these kinds of weapons are evolving to suit practice, I guarantee if at events you had to wear the sword for the entire thing sword hilts would probably be on average shorter ;) because we have removed the side arm like nature of the longsword its evolving to be bigger. This is some lovely proof that swords are chosen to fit the situation. Great video.
Fair enough, i suppose its personal preference, im comfortable with longish blade's or heavy at the tip(so a spatulated ted tip not a pointy one), but when i try to use something with a longer hilt i get my hands all in a twist, like a Hanwei Feder. Overall length would probably go down at events, it would be interesting to see what people would favor.
Yes, my group practice outdoors and there are some form SCA who learn with us so there are times it's easier to put your feder in a sword frog. The longer the hilt, it starts knocking your ribs and getting in your armpit - the longer the blade -starts hitting things or dragging. Funny though, I'm of Asian descent so I'm on the shorter side, my feder which is good for me when given to another member only came up to his waist so was almost arming sword length for him. So context of carry also is based on biology as well!
I got all the statistics for the original sword and had it replicated by Mark Vickers of St.George Armoury, who does very good work and makes excellent sharp swords as well as armour.
Absolutely! I'm a relatively short guy (Asian) I've found shorter long swords have been better to wield for me in general even in fencing context let alone carry (as I really haven't carried a sword in day to day) Also, what you say about carry is very important and still applicable now with firearms as well. In the US in relation to concealed carry, there are many who absolutely love their competition race pistol : longslide, flared mag well, massive red-dot... And they go to carry on the day to day and now it looks like you got some major hip tumor, or the only way you can carry is appendix which isn't always comfortable. Handle length is absolutely still applicable now as well and super funny how you talk about it knocking into things because analogous to the CCW world I really wish there was a class that taught you how to not turn the corner and bash your optics into the door frame, how to reach for things over your head or picking things off the ground without printing or exposing the firearm, how to get out of cars or even sitting in chairs that don't have a cover in the lower back without printing exposing the handle. So yes, even now when it comes to your side arm - we have to decide do I want one that is optimized for carry or competition. Funny how through all the things that changed. There are a lot that stays the same!
Question about the Albion Ringeck - Does the hilt feel short when you're wearing gauntlets? Does the angular pommel help with controlling edge alignment or is it mostly for aesthetic appeal?
How long should a grip be for a longsword? I have my eye on a Danelli Armouries longsword and its 30cm from guard to pommel, is that about right for Fiore?
I really like your videos. They are really informative and useful! What are your thoughts on full contact and semi contact fighting? Which one do you practise?
Great video, as always. But a short thing about "why we have to use german". I agree with you to a degree. But I think that you agree with me that it is useful when describing some other swords. It's easy to use latin and say gladius to describe some swords. So while I agree about the two-hander, I would be a bit confused if you where to use knife instead messer. =) Have a nice day.
As usual thanks for the great video. Do you have anything uploaded yet about "bastard swords"? Some say its a term that is interchangeable with "hand and a half" or "longsword" but things I've actually handled that are passed off as bastard swords are really quite large.
Messer is very much a statement about Germanic people of the period it came about. Their particular attention to detail and their stance on rules. It was designed to be lawfully accepted as a knife so that the peasantry could arm themselves. Grossemesser translates out to "Big Knife" as more of a sarcastic or sardonic name for what is clearly a sword. Only legally is the weapon a knife due to its construction.
I find that I need a longer hilt if I am using the sword with gauntlets or robust had protection. If I am just drilling or sparring lightly with just fencing gloves or padded gloves, then a historical hilt is good. I think it is a shortcoming of modern hand protection design.
Mr. Matt, i would like to ask some question. Do every longsword you own will touch the ground with their tips when you put your cross guard near your hip bone?
From one I heard german original terms for two-handed sword was: "Schlachtschwert" ( which means battle sword) or Beidfäuster/Beidenfäuster (which literally means 'both-fister') :D
I like a longer hilt when I wear gauntlets, because they make my hands wider (especially when I use cheap lacrosse gloves), and a shorter hilt gets too cramped.
Very interesting video! I'd like to see some pics of your naked Alexandria ;) Where did you get that replica from? Reminds me a little of Albion Ljubljana very interesting blade geometry.
I personally like the Albion Ringeck, Talhoffer and Agincourt best, though for a shorter option I love the Mercenery etc. Of course several of the Albions share the same blades, just with different hilt fittings. I love the blade of the Regent, but the pommel I find rather painful!
In the case of longswords, I think blade length is more obstructive than grip length. Blade length matters for your sword dragging on the ground, and for how hard it is to take out of the scabbard. But maybe I'm just saying that because my longsword grip is 12 inches long.
I'm also fond of having a sword that fits my own height. In fact, with me being almost 2m tall, a sword of 135cm, weighing around 1.8kg is still usable in one hand.
Essentially is it quite narrow but thick in the offensive end half of the blade, so the cross-section creates quite a lot of friction and quite a 'fat' edge.
I would suggest that a longsword becomes a two-handed sword at a point when it becomes uncomfortable for use in one hand... as usual, difference is strictly personal preference. A kitchen knife is a greatsword to a Liliputan.
As an American who has had a concealed carry handgun license, this concept makes sense to me. I wonder whether more of your American viewers will connect more easily to this idea than your European viewers who can't have concealed handguns.
(...) Of course this is a personal matter and someone stronger or used to apply other techniques will find the former sword being a good Bastard-sword. But when thinking this way even a Twohandedsword might be a One-and-a-Half-Sword to a very strong person... So while I basically agree to all your point I have to say that to me personally a Bastardsword is a Longsword but not every Longsword is a Bastardsword simply because the bigger ones don't allow good onehanded use.
Personally I like the definition I often encounter in German speaking countries e.g. from Thomas Laible's book ''Das Schwert'' page 90; Longsword being the general family of the weapon and ''Bastard sword'' (Bastardschwert) and ''Warsword'' (Kriegs/Schlachtschwert) being sub- categories. For me personally my 1m23/1,7kg sword, while being a longsword is NOT a bastard sword because it just doesn't handles well onehanded (speaking of efective fighting) compared to, say, a 1m10/1,2kg Longsword (...)
To me, Zweihander is more specific; it's not just any sword that's used in two hands, it's specifically the enormous two-handed swords used by Landsknechts and people like that.
***** The main reasons I like Fiore is that his text and illustrations are very clear and he favours covered lines and quite safe actions. Iike the German material as well, but to my eyes it contains a lot more risky techniques than the Italian material. I find the Bolognese treatises (eg. Marozzo, Manciolino etc) the best overall (pre-1700), but I have not had the chance to study them to the degree I would like.
I like the katana because it answers all those contexts you bring up. Shorter handle for wearing all day, shorter blade for ease of movement, riding, climbing (the small guard helps as well), straight enough to duel on foot but curved enough for cavalry, able to do draw cuts easily, 1 or 2 handed use, a cut and thrust blade, and since swords are specialized against no/low armor anyways let the blade geometry favor that instead of an anti-armor design. The last bit is more relevant for day to day carry or a culture where armor is less common.
You would be absolutely terrifying at 180+ kilograms of bodyweight. It would take you 5 years of growing to get their. However, you seem most happy in your modest form at 85 kilograms of body weight.
Thanks. We usually wear lots of protective gear with 'federschwert' type swords and do not reduce the force of our blows. However, training with less protective gear and more control is useful as well. Every type of training forms part of the 'Great Triangulation', which I posted a video about.
This brings up some great points. And the more i think of it, it seems that having a hilt that's *just* long enough for two hands would be advantageous if one wanted it to be still somewhat usable with one hand.
Great video, Matt!
Weird that I haven't seen it before...
Anyway, I think you're absolutely right.
We can expand this from swords to any weapon, really.
One should always seek a compromise between the weapon (system) you're most comfortable (skilled) with, and what might suit the situation (everything from ambient temperatures to wielding it, from weight to reach to [likely] opponent and his weapon [system], etc.).
So, like you always keep saying...
Context, context, context. :P
Keep up the great videos, Matt!
In modern use, yes.However, in the 14th/15th century the term 'bastard sword' was only occasionally used and we don't know exactly what it meant. Equally, the term 'longsword' meant different things to different people in different times and places. In 17th century England, for example, it meant a rapier or long sidesword. But in modern HEMA use, yes bastard sword, hand-and-a-half-sword and longsword are the same thing.
You are amazing, thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Worth noting is that length of sword increases in the German system the farther away it gets from the mounted material and towards a weapon for citizen militias or mercenaries, the pictures of Swiss mercenaries in Diebold Schilling have Feder sized longswords. This also goes along with a big shift in how the weapons was used.
Yes, true in regard to something like a grossemesser, which has no English term. But 'zweihander' particularly annoys me because two-handed sword is a perfect adequate English term. And added to that, many existing original two-handed swords are not German, but rather Italian, Spanish and other nationalities. It's not like it is a German style of sword (in fact the classic 16thC two-hander seems to be basically Italian).
scholagladiatoria biedenhänder would be correct if you Wang to use the Old term
Thanks. We usually wear lots of protective gear with 'federschwert' type swords and do not reduce the force of our blows. However, training with less protective gear and more control is useful as well. Every type of training forms part of the 'Great Triangulation', which I posted a video about.
Well thought out points. By the way, that example is such a beautiful sword. Context is everything.
Thanks. For big two-handers you have the late German sources like 'Goliath' and certain Italian sources, such as Alfieri and Di Grassi. I believe that there is a recent book published on Alfieri's 'Spadone'.
Might've been a long rambling one, but rather liked the last part (including the annotation about long hilts and it getting in the way of polearms etc). It's something rarely considered these days when an average person ever thinks about a sword, that they were considered a sidearm and except for some battlefield weapons primarily meant to be carried around all day while going about your business in life.
i could read on his face the struggle of resisting the urge to say "size isn't important"
You make very good points on the long sword and pragmatics of daily wear. Where can one get treatises to view interpreted and uninterpreted ?
a further thought, has anybody else realised that this tendency for longer hilts is actually sword choice changing to evolving circumstances just as they did Historically? for the first time in 500 years or so these kinds of weapons are evolving to suit practice, I guarantee if at events you had to wear the sword for the entire thing sword hilts would probably be on average shorter ;) because we have removed the side arm like nature of the longsword its evolving to be bigger. This is some lovely proof that swords are chosen to fit the situation. Great video.
Fair enough, i suppose its personal preference, im comfortable with longish blade's or heavy at the tip(so a spatulated ted tip not a pointy one), but when i try to use something with a longer hilt i get my hands all in a twist, like a Hanwei Feder. Overall length would probably go down at events, it would be interesting to see what people would favor.
Ah, that makes sense then, thankyou for the interesting chat.
Yes, my group practice outdoors and there are some form SCA who learn with us so there are times it's easier to put your feder in a sword frog. The longer the hilt, it starts knocking your ribs and getting in your armpit - the longer the blade -starts hitting things or dragging. Funny though, I'm of Asian descent so I'm on the shorter side, my feder which is good for me when given to another member only came up to his waist so was almost arming sword length for him. So context of carry also is based on biology as well!
I got all the statistics for the original sword and had it replicated by Mark Vickers of St.George Armoury, who does very good work and makes excellent sharp swords as well as armour.
Absolutely! I'm a relatively short guy (Asian) I've found shorter long swords have been better to wield for me in general even in fencing context let alone carry (as I really haven't carried a sword in day to day)
Also, what you say about carry is very important and still applicable now with firearms as well. In the US in relation to concealed carry, there are many who absolutely love their competition race pistol : longslide, flared mag well, massive red-dot... And they go to carry on the day to day and now it looks like you got some major hip tumor, or the only way you can carry is appendix which isn't always comfortable. Handle length is absolutely still applicable now as well and super funny how you talk about it knocking into things because analogous to the CCW world I really wish there was a class that taught you how to not turn the corner and bash your optics into the door frame, how to reach for things over your head or picking things off the ground without printing or exposing the firearm, how to get out of cars or even sitting in chairs that don't have a cover in the lower back without printing exposing the handle. So yes, even now when it comes to your side arm - we have to decide do I want one that is optimized for carry or competition. Funny how through all the things that changed. There are a lot that stays the same!
Question about the Albion Ringeck - Does the hilt feel short when you're wearing gauntlets? Does the angular pommel help with controlling edge alignment or is it mostly for aesthetic appeal?
Remember this kids?
How long should a grip be for a longsword? I have my eye on a Danelli Armouries longsword and its 30cm from guard to pommel, is that about right for Fiore?
I really like your videos. They are really informative and useful! What are your thoughts on full contact and semi contact fighting? Which one do you practise?
did you ever get a grip on that sword, it is beautiful, I would love to see it now.
Where/how would someone find such a replica blade as the Alexandria armoury you show?
What would be the best design to fight in a modern tournament?
Yes :-)
Great video, as always. But a short thing about "why we have to use german". I agree with you to a degree. But I think that you agree with me that it is useful when describing some other swords. It's easy to use latin and say gladius to describe some swords. So while I agree about the two-hander, I would be a bit confused if you where to use knife instead messer. =)
Have a nice day.
As usual thanks for the great video. Do you have anything uploaded yet about "bastard swords"? Some say its a term that is interchangeable with "hand and a half" or "longsword" but things I've actually handled that are passed off as bastard swords are really quite large.
Messer is very much a statement about Germanic people of the period it came about. Their particular attention to detail and their stance on rules. It was designed to be lawfully accepted as a knife so that the peasantry could arm themselves. Grossemesser translates out to "Big Knife" as more of a sarcastic or sardonic name for what is clearly a sword. Only legally is the weapon a knife due to its construction.
I find that I need a longer hilt if I am using the sword with gauntlets or robust had protection. If I am just drilling or sparring lightly with just fencing gloves or padded gloves, then a historical hilt is good. I think it is a shortcoming of modern hand protection design.
What qualities is the Alexandria replica missing that make it not an amazing cutter?
Mr. Matt, i would like to ask some question. Do every longsword you own will touch the ground with their tips when you put your cross guard near your hip bone?
I like the longsword you displayed, can you link where you got them please?
What's your take on wire grips?
From one I heard german original terms for two-handed sword was: "Schlachtschwert" ( which means battle sword) or Beidfäuster/Beidenfäuster (which literally means 'both-fister') :D
Wouldnt you need a bigger grip length if you were wearing gauntlets?
I like a longer hilt when I wear gauntlets, because they make my hands wider (especially when I use cheap lacrosse gloves), and a shorter hilt gets too cramped.
Very interesting video!
I'd like to see some pics of your naked Alexandria ;) Where did you get that replica from? Reminds me a little of Albion Ljubljana very interesting blade geometry.
Overall do you have a favorite sword for using with two hands? For Example: So far I think Albion's 'The Duke' is just about my favorite.
I personally like the Albion Ringeck, Talhoffer and Agincourt best, though for a shorter option I love the Mercenery etc. Of course several of the Albions share the same blades, just with different hilt fittings. I love the blade of the Regent, but the pommel I find rather painful!
In the case of longswords, I think blade length is more obstructive than grip length. Blade length matters for your sword dragging on the ground, and for how hard it is to take out of the scabbard. But maybe I'm just saying that because my longsword grip is 12 inches long.
'Concept in context'.. Nice! Thats what I tell my history students..
Regenyei Federschwert?
I'm also fond of having a sword that fits my own height. In fact, with me being almost 2m tall, a sword of 135cm, weighing around 1.8kg is still usable in one hand.
sure dude
Essentially is it quite narrow but thick in the offensive end half of the blade, so the cross-section creates quite a lot of friction and quite a 'fat' edge.
I would suggest that a longsword becomes a two-handed sword at a point when it becomes uncomfortable for use in one hand... as usual, difference is strictly personal preference. A kitchen knife is a greatsword to a Liliputan.
Drink one shot every time Matt says "context" :)
As an American who has had a concealed carry handgun license, this concept makes sense to me. I wonder whether more of your American viewers will connect more easily to this idea than your European viewers who can't have concealed handguns.
(...) Of course this is a personal matter and someone stronger or used to apply other techniques will find the former sword being a good Bastard-sword. But when thinking this way even a Twohandedsword might be a One-and-a-Half-Sword to a very strong person...
So while I basically agree to all your point I have to say that to me personally a Bastardsword is a Longsword but not every Longsword is a Bastardsword simply because the bigger ones don't allow good onehanded use.
Yeah, well what about Knight's Watch deserters? Huh? What then? I'm sure they have those in HEMA. lol (Sorry, my coffee is just kicking in now...)
Personally I like the definition I often encounter in German speaking countries e.g. from Thomas Laible's book ''Das Schwert'' page 90; Longsword being the general family of the weapon and ''Bastard sword'' (Bastardschwert) and ''Warsword'' (Kriegs/Schlachtschwert) being sub- categories.
For me personally my 1m23/1,7kg sword, while being a longsword is NOT a bastard sword because it just doesn't handles well onehanded (speaking of efective fighting) compared to, say, a 1m10/1,2kg Longsword (...)
But the fact that most of hema trains blossfechten, wouldn't that favor longer swords ?
I suspected as much. I hate non-German people saying 'zweihander'. It is like fingernails down a black board to me.
"Zweihänder" is more common, but still.
RP > META
Context, Context, Context...I feel Matt is gonna found a new religion at some point, which glorifies the God of Context....
Future video: 8:41
To me, Zweihander is more specific; it's not just any sword that's used in two hands, it's specifically the enormous two-handed swords used by Landsknechts and people like that.
Could you wear the sword on your back or is that just something depicted in movies?
It's a movie thing.
How would one unsheath a longsword or something like a claymore quickly?
Is one of the reasons you like Fiore so much because it seems indiscriminate about weapon choice?
***** The main reasons I like Fiore is that his text and illustrations are very clear and he favours covered lines and quite safe actions. Iike the German material as well, but to my eyes it contains a lot more risky techniques than the Italian material. I find the Bolognese treatises (eg. Marozzo, Manciolino etc) the best overall (pre-1700), but I have not had the chance to study them to the degree I would like.
+scholagladiatoria nice how you pronouced zweihänder we dont spell the z like you we spell more like ts so tsweihänder. ;D
Cannot agree enough. Really tired of the oversized overnight whippy Federschwerts that are becoming omnipresent in longsword tournaments
Bidenhänder is actually a common term in today-germany when youre talking about those large things :)
I like the katana because it answers all those contexts you bring up. Shorter handle for wearing all day, shorter blade for ease of movement, riding, climbing (the small guard helps as well), straight enough to duel on foot but curved enough for cavalry, able to do draw cuts easily, 1 or 2 handed use, a cut and thrust blade, and since swords are specialized against no/low armor anyways let the blade geometry favor that instead of an anti-armor design. The last bit is more relevant for day to day carry or a culture where armor is less common.
No thumbs down. wow lol
What? Haha. That is like for a non-japansse saying katana , isn't it. Katana is just any single edge sword. But still just "sword."
You would be absolutely terrifying at 180+ kilograms of bodyweight. It would take you 5 years of growing to get their. However, you seem most happy in your modest form at 85 kilograms of body weight.
Thanks. We usually wear lots of protective gear with 'federschwert' type swords and do not reduce the force of our blows. However, training with less protective gear and more control is useful as well. Every type of training forms part of the 'Great Triangulation', which I posted a video about.