Rogue is Broken | Dungeons and Dragons 5e Guide
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- čas přidán 4. 01. 2023
- Rogue 5e Class Guide for Dungeons and Dragons! Let's sneak into all the stealthy edgelord features that the rogue gets access to!
The rogue's talents know no bounds! Between expertise, reliable talent, and the most starting skill proficiencies in all of DND 5e, you'll almost never fail--no matter what you roll on the d20! Not to mention amazing Roguish Archetypes like the Arcane Trickster, Soulknife, Assassin, Phantom, and Swashbuckler from the Player's Handbook, Xanathar's Guide to Everything, and Tasha's Cauldron of Everything!
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In a high level campaign that we have going I have a level 11 Assassin level 5 Gloomstalker . He is, in a word BADASS . Most enemies are dead before they know he is there . The funniest encounter we had was a random encounter when the team was sleeping . My assassin was on his watch when bandits noticed our camp . With 90ft of darkvision I was well aware of their approach and because Umbral sight makes me invisible if you are using darkvision and a minimum of 25 on my stealth checks it was a slaughter . The DM had the other players role each round to see if they woke up . One player woke up when an enemy screamed in pain. My teammate yelled what's going on and I replied nothing , go back to sleep . He just said ok and rolled over . Everyone at the table burst out laughing . When my watch was over and I woke the next player they asked if there was any trouble . I just said no and went to sleep .
Hahahaha you aren’t kidding! What a badass moment 😂😂😂
Thanks for sharing that!
Wait why not just ditch assassin at level 3 though? Those other 8 levels didn't add anything did they?
@@ethanheard9208 Well sneak attack and uncanny dodge, but I would prefer the spellcasting from Gloomstalker
*Roll, not role :P
But congrats for your badass moment. :)
I would always prefer to play an Arcane Trickster though - it's much better than Assassin.
@@ChristomirRackov Master of Death dealing, Phantom Rogue, if you can get past the fact that you aren't a good Rogue until lv 9.
In my game, thieves cant is based on the scene from Ocean's 12 where they converse in extremely cryptic phrases and everyone who isn't in the know gets super confused. If people who don't speak thieves cant try to speak it, they have to roll to see if they inadvertently say something extremely offensive. Most of the time we read children's book rhymes a la Dr. Seuss as thieves cant then explain what they are saying afterwards. It's super fun!
I like to play it similarly to this as well! I’ve had players try to learn theives’ cant and never master it. As you said above, they’ve always needed some sort of check to see if they could understand and respond appropriately. And, even then, their understanding of it was loose at best!
I like to think of Thieves Cant as either being cryptic messaging or, in more social settings, essentially just being doublespeak honed to a degree where anyone listening in would find the conversation perfectly reasonable but really there is an illicit (or not) deal going on
@@T0NI_ I use it that way too sometimes when there are unfriendlies around. The other way is a way of testing if someone is a member of the theives guild and is sort of like them showing off to each other. Almost like a rap battle of nonsense sentences and words
@@RobearRich haha yeah I could definitely imagine Thieves Cant as being used like the rogues version of (for lack of better wording) an intellectual pissing contest. Fits quite well
Basher:
So unless we intend to do this job in Reno, we're in real barney.
Basher:
Barney Rubble.
Basher:
Trouble!
One of my favorite rogues I ever made was an archetype I like to call ROGUE KNIGHT. You go inquisitive rogue (though just about any subclass will do), and take moderately armored at level 4. You are now a fighter with one really hard hitting attack, comparable AC, and uncanny dodge, effectively making you harder to kill than a regular fighter. You also are incredibly mobile, and have expertise. One of my favorite characters I've ever made.
Rogue really is just so versatile like that. There are so many different ways to play the class effectively!
Well try that inquisitive rogue build with eloquence bard and crown paladin or battlemaster maybe. You will get a character which can actually be strongest. A kingdom and masses in disposal of your ideals is often much more dangerous than any single assassin.
@@MunUtku what does that have to do with what I put? Aren’t we talking about rogue builds?
The 'Barbarian charge' demo was perfectly timed.
You are right in that some of the subclasses are lackluster. More than many classes, the Rogue should be tailor-made for whatever type of campaign the group is playing in. If there isn't going to be a lot of investigation, the Inquisitive might not be much fun. However, some subclass features work well regardless of the setting or theme of the campaign like the fact that the Soul Knife's attacks leave no marks on the body. Finally, I've never seen a Rogue that wasn't fun to role-play.
Hahaha I'm glad you liked that one. I was a little self-conscious of all the extra... uh.... "bulk" I've put on in the last year.
Arcane Trickster is probably my favorite subclass in all of 5e. It's tons of flavor, fun, and makes your stronger
Same here!! Maybe not my absolute favorite but it's up there! Top 5 probably!
Soulknive is also very cool, love them both
It needs to be a half caster and their capstone is a trap
@@AyamesChroniclesI agree, the game doesn't need 1/3 casters. But why is the capstone a trap? I get that it's a little too.. little at lvl 17, or is there another issue?
@@strahlungsopfer when is anyone casting a 4th level spell when you're level 17?
Thieves Cant express super-detailed ideas, but as an example, if you take a collection of symbols, one symbol can express relative danger or safety (from totally safe to you're doomed), a second symbol can express a type of danger (orcs, mind flayers, traps), and the orientation or modifications to those symbols might add more details (symbol turned left means enemies come from the left, a red symbol means a fire trap).
But to express a detailed map of an enemy camp in Thieves Can't you would basically just draw a map.
That seems reasonable enough and mostly in line with what I mentioned in the video barring the silly skit haha. Thanks for clarifying further!
I've made two rogues and they're among my favorites. Booming blade Arcane Trickster and Soul Knife are just super cool and provoke interesting build ideas! I'm always tempted to build another..
Booming blade is such a great cantrip for arcane trickster! My last rogue did exactly that with a rapier and the wonderful disengage bonus action. If you like those, you should definitely check out the phantom too. It adds some awesome flavor and is pretty mechanically solid as well!
“So in short, thieves cant do a lot” 😉
Congrats, you have just won a subscriber
Hahaha I'm glad someone enjoyed that one beside me!
It may have been extremely delayed but I'm glad you didn't give up on these videos. Thank you so very much!!!
Yes of course! I had to take a break for work but I’m back and ready to pump out the content again!
I'm new to DND in a party of seasoned experts, this defiantly helps me feel more confident thank you.
Of course! I'm happy to help! I was a new player once too and I know how intimidating it can be. Just know that your friends around the table are just happy to have you there!
@@ConstructedChaosI Dm for a new player right now on roll 20, with their permission I made their sheet visible to all my players and she’s been having a blast as an artificer.
As a dm I’m just happy to see players happy
I've got a social, but socially awkward, Tiefling mastermind rogue with the bounty hunter background. The bonus action help has been very useful, and with his background and proficiencies, he often winds up being the party interrogator or even face, even though we have a lockadin in the party. If we ever get to a particular city to collect our half of the bounty, his background and skills will have also earned the party their biggest single score after dealing with another bounty hunter who thought they were after a party member until we helped them catch the actual culprit.
Nicely done!! I haven't played a mastermind yet but I'd really love to! I love the deep thinking mentality that seems to be built into the subclass!
Thanks for the tips on buidling on helping me build my rogue. The presentation of this made me an instant subscriber of this channel, along with the info being concise and easy to listen to! Really appreciate this. Plus it helped out one of my friends when i saw your artificer video for his character!i hope you'll be considering doing a video on bards. I wanna try to have my rogue multiclass into bard for my friend's new game!!
Thank you so much and welcome to the chaos!! I'm so glad you enjoyed the video and found it helpful!
Swashbuckler is an excellent crit fisher when multiclassed for three levels of champion fighter and taking dual wielding or dueling for their fighting style, blind fighting being a close third if the party is willing to work with a character who revels in darkness but after playing a shadow sorcerer and a gloomstalker it's pretty apparent that most players aren't willing to work with that sort of setup.
Yeah, sadly it's just so hard to make a blindfighting strategy work with magical darkness in a party setting. Great point on the crit fishing with swashbuckler and champion fighter, though!
Artificer with spell tattoo handing out bat familiars comming in clutch
This was a fantastic video, very informative and engaging! Can’t wait to watch your other videos
Thanks so much!! I'm glad you enjoyed it and welcome to the channel! :D
A rogue was what I played in my first game, and my character was an elf trying to find a way to become a dark elf without magic
He also collected the heads of those he killed
Wow that sounds absolutely brutal!
Oh, right, almost forgot. My current favorite Rogue is Lucifer "Lucky" Luciano Lucretia Louis Lupinshire of the Luetin Lupinshires, a Lightfoot Halfling Soulknife Rogue. Between Halfling Luck, Psi-Bolstered Knack, and the Lucky feat, he's very consistent, outside of combat. Though my current favorite trick with him is using Psychic Whispers and the Actor feat to impersonate people's inner monologue, fake a Sending spell or similar, or to plant auditory hallucinations. Bonus points if your DM let's you control the directionality of your telepathic utterances. Great for manipulating and distraction.
Holy cow!! Consistent is an understatement haha!
You've surrpassed your editing and scripting skills! :) Much work has been put into this video!
Thanks so much for noticing! I'm toying with going more in this sortof direction. I really really enjoyed making the little skits for this one!
My rogue comes from a very rich noble family. And is very chatty.
My party keeps claiming he is a bard... but we know who the real rogues are 😍
Hahaha nice! My last rogue was an arcane trickster fairy that was actually somewhat bard-like in their personality, though not quite as charismatic. It’s so fun to be a non-edgy rogue. But also fun to be edgy too 🤔
Wow, you've stepped up your videos. Great from start to finish in every metric. Wow!
Thanks so much!! I’m glad you enjoyed it. I’m only going to keep improving and making better and better videos!!
My personal favorite rogue hack is to get thieves' tools proficiency from the urchin background and just play a different class.
LOL that's not where I thought that sentence was going at first.
Theres so much overlap between what is expected of a rogue and what any other class could do it's crazy
@@AyamesChronicles hmmm fair but you can say that of pretty much every class. Rogues are skill specialists.
@@ConstructedChaos what skills exactly?
@@AyamesChronicles it depends on what skills you take expertise in. You can build a rogue a number of different ways.
Super quality video and information. Really enjoyed it and also gave me ideas too. :)
I'm so glad you found it helpful! Thanks for watching! :D
Made a Scout Rogue with the Alert feat for a oneshot, we had a Paladin and a Fighter in the party, they LOVED him for his Ambush Master (having advantage on ALL attack rolls against a target until the Rogue's nex turn is the most teamwork thing ever, made even better when you consider he couldn't be surprised, had advantage on initiative rolls and his initiative bonus was a +10.)
Hell yeah! I've heard some people don't like the scout but I think they're pretty good if you can make use of their abilities well!
though i dont really like to leave comments, this video definetly deserved one!
the music in the background was amazing and kept me hooked through all of the video, the imaged shown were original and extremely detailed. you managed to turn pages of dull boring texts into on of the best dnd video ive seen. great work!
Thanks so much for the high praise! I’m happy you enjoyed it!
One of my current Character's Nyx is a monk teifling with the CHarlatan background and while he is not a rogue in practice He is the groups pickpocket and infiltrator. He took the place of the group's unoffical rogue when our rogue decided to switch and become a paladin
That's so cool! We actually had a guest character in our livestream that went by Nyx! They were a Satyr Warlock but it sounds like both characters were pretty badass! :D
Things are different these days, I played 2nd edition. I joined a group that had an edgelord rogue, before the term was coined, nobody really liked the ass because he was constantly stealing from everyone, not sharing loot etc. I started as a rogue, because they still rocked back then. So I set him up as the complete opposite of the edgelord, he dressed in bright cheery colours, had a good family life, none of them were ever murdered, stayed in regular touch, was looking for nobody, had no curses and just looked like a generic halfling with no cool scars, honest to a fault, a completely nice guy, completely pissed off the edgelord. Git tried to push me down a mineshaft in an "accident", so I "accidentaly" poisoned him a tad later and stole all his $hit, good times. So yeah rogues are damn cool and can be a Sherlock or Moriarty, totally up to the player.
Nice counter-culture approach! I love doing stuff like this with the rogue!
In my first campaign ever - Swashbuckling Halfling Rogue with Crossbow expert. So much fun to just dash and rapid fire up close
Gotta love getting rid of the silly point blank disadvantage rule!
Playing my first rogue for my group's monthly campaign and already having a lot of fun with him; he's a Half-Elf Inquisitive Rogue with the Urban Bounty Hunter background. I was contemplating doing a Fighter multiclass with him, but the Rogue has so much to offer in later levels that I think I'm just gonna go full Rogue for the rest of the campaign 😁
Nice!! How are you liking the inquisitive subclass? I actually haven't played it before!
@@ConstructedChaos I'm only at Lvl 5 for now, but as my first-time playing a Rogue class, it's been great! Our campaign is very lore-driven with a lot of opportunities for investigation/mystery-solving and we have a pretty large, well-balanced party. I also find that investigations are better as a party effort, so a few of us get a moment to shine when we discover something important.
On our last campaign, we stumbled upon a town overrun by ghouls and after fighting them off and doing an investigation, my Rogue was able to uncover a hidden, sealed spell scroll buried deep within the basement of a shady new resident. With help from our scholarly Sorcerer and well-read Cleric, we were able ascertain that this was a centuries-old necromancy ritual meant to funnel the souls of the trapped townsfolk to summon a fiend from another realm.
@@thekaijusleeps Wow!! What an adventure you have on your hands there! That sounds like one hell of a session!
The rogue I want to play in my next campaign is an Elven Accuracy build to fish for crits. Arcane Trickster to get Find Familiar, plus other Rogue features to get advantage and a few levels in Champ Fighter to crit more reliably. Plus, Champ Fighter gets some extra boosts to some skills, meaning I can still be a sort of pseudo skill monkey. So glad Rogue has the versatility for builds like this
Awesome features that'll really play to your strengths as a rogue. Elven Accuracy alone is insane!
Rogues can also be absolute lunatic Kobolds who sneak around like John Belushi in Animal House giggling like an idiot while repeatedly saying "stab" to himself, who is only sticking with the party because he plans to eat them if they die.
Hahaha I couldn't have said it better myself!
I'm trying out a Soulknife Rogue, based on how well you sold it in this video. Wish me luck!
Good luck and have fun!! I had a player run one in a recent game and they had a blast!
Currently playing a Rogue Soulknife with a mix of a Bard, still at level 4 (R3-B1) only on the 3rd session and I've been enjoying it a lot. I have changeling for the race and a spy/criminal backstory. My character is an agent for an independent intelligence organization currently on standby and just collecting information and relaying that via his handler through thieve's cant letters while travelling. Changeling fits so well because of the shapeshifting ability that enhances the espionage aspect of his backstory. I've also made him as somewhat of a bond villain-ish, like the sophisticated criminal mastermind.
Bard's there for his diplomatic, info gathering side that allows him to mingle with courts
I can absolutely see the appeal of the multiclass here! Love that flavor combined with a changeling. I'm sure you're an absolute menace in social encounters!
@@ConstructedChaos
Mhm!
I also have unseen servant from the bard's spell list just for that extra character flavor
thinking of getting the feat Magic Initiate (Warlock) for some offensive magic (Toll the Dead, Eldritch Blast) and a bit of survivability (Armor of Agathys) in later sessions
You seem to have gotten your style down pretty well and it is tastefully unique.
Thanks so much! I feel like I'm still rummaging around trying to find it so comments like this one make my day! :)
The Skulker fear seems tailor made for this class.
How would you or your DM handle: You can try to hide when you are lightly obscured from the creature from which you are hiding.
I'd allow it but the player would need to change their position dramatically once breaking that line of sight to be considered "hidden" in the context of getting advantage on their next attack.
In my experience 2 roles are always missed when not present. The rogue and the heals.
I definitely agree with you there!!
A druid can do a lot of what you expect from rogue and can also heal
Watching this gave me the idea for a Rogue/Swarmkeeper, whose swarm counts as hostile to enemy’s, meaning you can send the swarm near someone, and get a sneak attack out from anywhere
That’s a really interesting idea! I’m actually not sure if that would work or not! Nice thought!
Pallid Elf (EGW) is my absolute favourite race for rogues, perfect for minmaxing. The Elven Accuracy feat is ideal for Steady Aim but multi-classing with Gloom Stalker makes every round even more fun in the dark. Buy/steal some uncommon magical items that don't take up attunement slots such as the Serpent Scale armour, Sentinel Shield, Gloves of Thievery and Boots of Elvenkind. I've got advantage on so many skills, my DM just rolls their eyes (I'm lucky they're so patient).
This combo works great with Inquisitive and Assassin sub-classes, but because I've got a skill monger I went with Phantom.
Elven Accuracy in general is just so cracked haha! Nice wombo combo!
I love these videos.
That is all.
Thank you.
Thanks so much!! I'm glad you're enjoying them! :D
As mentioned, sharing here the only main class rogue optimized build i played last year. i consider rogues best as a dip class with 1 exception. this class. level 10 theorycraft always:
"death gun" (props if you get the anime reference)
fighter 1, phantom 9
custom lineage: piercer
fighting style: superior technique (quick toss)
asi: martial adept (ambush, rally), ritual caster (find familiar, unseen servant, phantom steed)
weapon: musket (the name of the build is death gun)
role: sustained striker in combat/utility caster and scout outside of combat
tactics:
pretty straightforward. phantom steed is a controlled mount. familiar is an owl in combat. unseen servant standing orders to ride the phantom steed and coat your ammunition in poison. give unseen servant a bunch vials of poisonous snake (familiar) poison or better poisons if your dm allows you to craft/buy them. feel free to "bag of rats" your phantom steed/familiar to max out your soul trinkets before each and every combat.
1st turn:
phantom steed-move within range and ready off-turn move
unseen servant: poison ammunition
bonus action: steady aim
action: sneak attack + wails of the grave
familiar: help
phantom steed-move away
reaction: uncanny dodge if necessary
2nd turn:
phantom steed-move within range and ready off-turn move
unseen servant: poison ammunition
bonus action: quick toss sneak attack + wails
action: ready an off-turn sneak attack after familiar helps
familiar: help
reaction: sneak attack + wails
phantom steed-move away
3rd turn onwards:
phantom steed-move within range and ready off-turn move
unseen servant: poison ammunition
bonus action: steady aim
action: sneak attack + wails
familiar: help
phantom steed-move away
dmg isn't high but it's consistent. being able to do:
1d12 (musket) + 4 (dex) + 5d6 sneak + 3d6 wails= 38.5 average per round without factoring in any poison dmg. 10.5 of that though is to a secondary target.
with the occasional off-turn sneak + wails + quick toss dmg (2x per short rest) as burst. quick toss weapon will be a dagger so the extra burst averages to 38 with 10.5 of that to a secondary target again.
when i played this i went to battlemaster at level 12 for more superiority dice for off-turn sneaks and action surge (also helps setup more off-turn sneaks). then just went phantom all the way to level 16 ending at BM 3, phantom 13. feel free to let me know what you think.
Thanks as always for sharing!! That fighter dip really is almost always a great add!
@@ConstructedChaos yup and fighters just really mix so well with almost every class. Here i did it initially to gain con save prof, fighting style and martial weapon proficiency (for my musket).
You mentioned how the Assassin is good for multiclass synergy, but failed to mention the inquisitive as an option. Dip 5 levels into fighter and take the sentinel feat, combined with insightful fighting, steady aim, and flanking and you're going full Oprah with sneak attacks.
Nice suggestion!! Sounds like a fun build!
I love playing rogue with noble background who's highest stat is charisma and if variant human, starts with magic initiate or ritual caster feat (education paid by the noble house). Picking up the Find familiar spell, because it's very good to have.
They range from lawful neutral courtiers to chaotic evil bastards.
It's definitely a fun deviation from the typical "street urchin" backstory!
I love my mastetmind rogue/eloquence bard☺️ my party is in heavy rp game and a more social setting. My dm have forgotten so many times that I sound like a native speak of the kingdom, which frustrated him since he can't use the "you aren't from here" 😅
Ohhh that sounds like a really fun combination! And very flavorful at that!
I'm playing my first ever DnD campaign as a Kenku rogue! After seeing the title of this video i thought i might have made a mistake choosing this class but after watching I'm so happy i did! Thank you for explaining it so clearly.
Do you, or does anyone here have advice for a concealed range weapon that isn't completely useless? XD I would like to look insignificant and harmless whilst actually being a silent nightmare.
And more important: Is there any advantage to looking unarmed or do all npc's overlook/discard the the fact that someone has a crossbow or a battleaxe strapped to their body?
Hey!! Welcome to the hobby and I'm glad you enjoyed the video! I think, as a rogue, your real weapon is sneak attack damage. So, consider taking a weapon that doesn't deal that much damage on its own. All that you'll really want is that attack landing and getting your sneak attack if you want to value concealing it from enemies.
The second question about being unarmed is likely to be setting and location specific so you DM might be able to answer that better than anyone. In my eyes, the benefit of appearing unarmed would be that you could get the jump on enemies before combat begins in some situations.
When our party tries to hide stuff from a search, our DM has us make a Slight of Hand check against the opponent's Perception skill. If someone doesn't have Perception (not ALL guards are aware), they can miss things. If someone doesn't have Sleight of hand, they're simply not good at hiding stuff. Our DM grants bonuses for hiding small stuff and minuses for big things. As the party Rogue, I can generally pull a Mad Max and hide about 11 weapons on me at any one time!
@@Comicsluvr Sounds like a pretty fun interaction to run!
Great video! I really like the music you used in the background as well. Where is it from?
Thanks so much! almost all of the music we use in these videos comes from Epidemic Sound!
Thanks!@@ConstructedChaos
my tips for using hide, and sneak attack in combat is by using the sentinal feat and mobile feat :)
Great suggestions for sure!! I usually don't delve into feats in these videos but that's not a bad tip at all!
Thanks for the sneak attack
You're most welcome!
Thank You!!! So many people limit Sneak Attack to Advantage or an Adjacent Ally. Takes all the fun out of social engineering your way into a Sneak Attack, making sure someone who wants to hurt your target gets near enough. Barfights, rumors, disguises, so many options.
Of course!!! Using a bar fight as cover for a sneak attack or assassination is pretty genius, I have to say!
I agree with much of what you said Except ....
The down side of the soul knife Rouge is its all psionic. I mean, most of the time they'll be good however when they encounter monsters immune or resistance they'll have some trouble..."all of your eggs in the same basket" situation. Then the Theif Rouge is one of the better one's. I don't think people realize how great fast hands can be. You can easily use this subclass to build an alchemist. All you need for a Rogue Alchemist is the Tavern brawler feat and a background giving you Proficiency in an Alchemy kit. I mean the artificer Alchemist really stinks but the Theif rogue has it easily. I never thought chemistry and engineering mix well anyway. If I had an engineering degree I couldn't get a job as a chemist.
Personally, I was toying with the idea of a soul knife ± totem Barbarian build. Of course that makes it a MAD character build, but it would be fun and diverse.
My top favorite Rouge subclasses are the Arcane Trickster (the most potent), Scout, Swashbuckler, Theif, and Soul Knife. That's more than I have for any other class! Most classes I have 1 or 2.
All great points here! I will say, in relation to the soulknife, you can always just use regular weapons and rely on the base class in the few situations where your fighting a mind flayer or something…. Unless that’s the whole campaign…. Then… yea choose something different maybe 😜
But theif as an alchemist is certainly interesting as well!
A Soulknife rogue carrying a regular weapon?! How can such a thing be possible?!
I also dislike how a soul knife rogue doesn't really have any magic items or feats to improve their damage
About to start a character in storm kings and I'm tossing around the idea of a character who goes 2 rogue/x mercy monk so that I have at 7, have 2 strikes wit a slashing weapon for sneak attack plus slasher slow ability then can bonus action 1-2 attack for a ki and cause necrotic damage or for free wit no ki cost disengage, hide, or dash.
Make him kinda like the Centurion from the video game for honor who uses a blade and his fists to fight!
(And yes for rp not maximized damage)
Sounds like a good time!! Just don’t forget that sneak attack is still only once per turn and you won’t get it on both weapon attacks!
I figure the 1 lvl of rogue wit 1 sneak attack hit will help balance some of the smaller but multiple hits of the monk, thou God I wish u could sneak attack more than just once per turn.
Guess I'm taking sentinel too lol
Great overview.
Thanks so much! Glad to hear you enjoyed it!
Gotta love fast hands not getting love yet again 😢 bombs, vials of acid, alchemists fire, hunting traps, oil, dynamite, healer's kit, poisons etc. All my beloved - Healer feat + thief rogue is the games best combat medic
Unfortunately, a lot of this doesn’t work as per the Basic Rules: “If an item requires an action to activate, that action isn’t a function of the Use an Object action, so a feature such as the rogue’s Fast Hands can’t be used to activate the item.”
Just cause nobody notices, the simple Thief is actually the hardest hitting rogue at high levels, in experienced hands, as it can go off for four sneak attacks on round one.
Four?? How?
@@ConstructedChaos two turns equal two attacks and two reactions, if set up well this could mean 4 attacks. If those are set up well, all could trigger sneak attacks. Maybe some ways like using Thief 17 with Echo Knight, Gloom Stalker, or duel wielding to create extra attacks that are used as held actions, or the class support of a Battle Master telling you to attack with Commander's strike. Pretty sure there's a few other ways to make sure you get all four swings landing as sneak attacks, with 36d6 bombing the table on top of damage dice. Ignoring the likelihood of other bonuses and damage dice, that round is a Meteor Swarm in a humanoid form. Cheers.
@@kelceydane5874 ohhh I see you mean in one round haha. Yes for sure the thief rogue can be really strong! It’s a shame this comes online at 17th level, though.
@@ConstructedChaos I talked a big talk but can't say I played it...... forever DM anyway, but a man can dream.....a man can dream.
@@kelceydane5874 you can only use sneak attack once per turn
At first I was like "huh, has he ever played a Rogue?" then I realized he's saying every single class in DnD is broken in some way, ok thats fair. Out of combat they can be pretty impressive, in combat, they need help and certain feats and they can compete with the likes of Fighter or Ranger some of the time. My personal thoughts.
I think they can be pretty crazy in combat too but you definitely get the gist of the series!
I play a Barbarian / Echo Knight quite often. I've thought about adding one level dip of Rogue as the Barb has reckless at 2nd level and always gets advantage.
I'd love to see your build. 1 Rogue, 2 Barb, 11 Echo....
Oh that sounds pretty interesting! Of course, since sneak attack is tied to your rogue level, that extra 1d6 would eventually feel pretty paltry I think.
@@ConstructedChaos Yes. But, the ability to dash would be great. Plus the proficiencies.
@@wmdavidhamilton Cunning action is a 2nd level ability, though! Don't forget!
I really want to play a rouge for my next campaign. If I get the chance
You should! My very first character was actually a rogue and I was instantly hooked on the hobby from there. So much fun!
Look, I'm basically new to the D&D world considering I haven't played since the mid 80s. Currently, I'm a level 3 Wood Half-Elf Rogue. I already screwed up the build by putting too much emphasis on Strength (leaving Charisma, Intelligence and Constitution all at 11). That said, I did get lucky with a roll of 18 (19 with the bonus) for Dexterity and 17 for Wisdom. I have no interest in being a detective, and spells seem like a pain in the ass for someone just trying to grasp all the complexities of the game again.
So, Assassin or Theif? Long term, which is the better way to go? Are there any Rogue players out there with some advice for a guy thrown into a role he isn't experienced in (I have always been a tank but the people I'm playing with say they already have too many tanks and needed someone to pick locks and detect traps)? I' looking for any step by step build advice on what worked best for you? Like I said, I have probably made too many mistakes to really become a true badass, but the best build I can achieve moving forward would be nice.
I think, in a situation like this, the best thing to do is to play what feels right for your character specifically. Who are they? Are they a pocket-picker or a cold-blooded killer? Either option will give you enough to have fun at the table so I think that's the best way to look at it!
Though, if you're asking which is better outside of that, I'd say the assassin.
i think your underselling the assassin rogue, if role-played to the max, taking the initiative and taking on a 'lone wolf' role in the party, makes a really fun character that can maximise the use of its class features
i also think your overselling the arcane trickster as the "best" rogue subclass, though i agree that its great flavor and very powerful
Hmmm in your opinion, would you swap the two? I think assassin is decent but it just can't compare to a rogue that get's spellcasting--and specifically access to great options like silvery barbs!
@@ConstructedChaos spellcasting is the strongest feature in dnd, id say assassin rogue rewards a certain kind of roleplay and playstyle whereas Arcane trickster is straight up 3rd best
@@ConstructedChaos absolute props on this vid btw, its great info and the editing was fun and tasteful
@@davidmusic5883 Thank you much! I'm glad you enjoyed it! :)
I play a 11 Rogue 5 paladin, extra attack to use assassinate on two targets in the opening turn, and great weapons fighting to reroll ones and twos on my damage dice. shits good. very good.
Mmmmm good ole pallyrogue! Well done!
@@ConstructedChaos he's my first character too! it was nice just being an assassin in the beginning bc the mechanics are easy to learn, but multiclassing into something that could spellcast sort of spiced it up a bit
@@williamurbanblackiii1729 multiclassing your first character? What a champ!!
@ConstructedChaos to be fair my party is all very experienced, they've taught me almost everything I know. I'm definitely still learning, but it's great to have an experienced party as a newer player
Moonsilver Garrote
Rare Magic Item
Martial Weapon
Finesse, Two-Handed, Special*
1d8 Bludgeoning
Crafted with long strands of Moon Elf hair and enchanted with the stillness of the moonless night, the Moonsilver Garrote is a favorite of Mage Hunters.
*Special: Can only be used to attack a creature who is surprised. A surprised creature who his hit with this weapon is both grappled and restrained. A creature is suffocating while it is grappled in this way.
The first time you hit a creature with this weapon, you can use the Moonsilver Garrote to cast the Silence spell in your space and it requires no concentration. You can use this ability 3 times a day, with all uses recharging at Midnight.
As an action each turn, the wielder of the Garrote can deal 1d4 + their strength or dexterity modifier of bludgeoning damage to the grappled creature.
That's a pretty sick item! On an assassin or scout build this would get really crazy!
Asking as a new player, what would happen if I became a multi class of Lv11 Rogue, Lv6 barbarian, and Lv 3 fighter? How'd that look?
Sounds like a fun character to RP at the very least! Getting your rages, sneak attack, reliable talent, and action surge could make a pretty potent combination as well!
Swashbuckler is my favorite rogue subclass. Yes the 3rd level ability is the best, the rest of the subclass features are blah. But adding cha to initiative, and sneak attack without advantage is awesome sustained damage. Multiclass with sorcerer to get the most out of the build.
Ohhh a sorcerer multiclass? You've peaked my curiosity!
@@ConstructedChaos I've got a fallen aasimar shadow sorcerer/ swashbuckler that's awesome fun. It's a shadow blade build. Most spells are defensive, shield, mirror image... if you can get a bloodwell vial and an amulet of health you've got it made.
@@tgime3 I see! Spellcasting on a rogue for that extra evasiveness is a potent combo and, as a swashbuckler, you already want a decent charisma score! Sounds like a fun combo!
I base my thieves cant on cockney rhyme, very simple to just replace a few words that only the other person would understand. And it's constantly being updated.
That sounds like a lot of fun to play with at the table!
I would love to see a video like this for barbarian. Also great job on the vid. It’s entertaining while also explaining everything we need to know
Barbarian may very well be the next one, assuming WOTC doesn't burn down DND first.
@@ConstructedChaos Nice. Wether it’s barbarian or not I already know it’s gonna be a good vid
@@darthsion8081 You are too kind! Thanks for the continued support!
Han Solo was a Strength/Charisma Rogue with the Lucky feat.
Hell yeah he was! Ashamed for not mentioning a character from one of my favorite IPs!
Any chance you can let me know the name of the song playing at 26:20 ? Really enjoyed the vid, thank you!
Hey! Glad you enjoyed it! That song is "Findings" by August Wilhelmsson and it's one of my favorites too! I use it pretty often!
@@ConstructedChaos Such an awesome song. Thank you!
@@farkas266 No problem at all!
Thieves cant make their party members stealthier, but I think it is more of problem for Pass without Trace (more fun with wild shape as small critters) and free Familiar for Druid than Rogues themselves.
Even more reason to consider multiclassing assassin with Gloomstalker!
Bro did not just skim over fast hands for Thief like it isn't the best feature of the subclass. The ability to make use of the 'Use an Object' feature as a bonus action is really versatile. Off the top of my head you can use Alchemist's fire, vials of acid, smoke bombs, dynamite, poison, healer kits, holy water, oil flasks -- all while still getting in your sneak attacks.
Oh it’s very strong! But, as I said, I’m not exactly doing a deep dive on each subclass. I’ll save that for future videos and builds that focus on the mechanics of each!
It also lets you use sleight of hand as your bonus which is SUPER useful. Plucked my flintlock from a rowdy npc and then used my regular action to shoot a pirate in the knee
Scout and swashbuckler are my usual go to by default
Definitely nice choices that don't play too heavily into the typical "edgelord" rogue archetype haha.
Swashbuckler with magic initiate booming blade is just mean i love it
Yes!! I love booking blade and green flame blade and this pairs so well with how the rogue attacks just once per turn usually. Nicely done!
@@ConstructedChaos ehh green Flame blade if your an arcane trickster as you Will probably rely on higher int
Edit: forgot warlocks existed for a moment
Rogue is the class that ironically cheats the least... I would put them at like 8/13 overall, not bad, but not in the top 50% of classes. Sneak attack is ok but unless the group is arranged to allow the rogue to attempt to get multiple instances of sneak attack in a round then in most situations you are likely better off just playing another class... Except for Arcane Trickster because that subclass is nuts, Booming Blade, Mage Hand, Create Bonfire/Minor Illusion, Find Familiar, Silent Image, and Silvery Barbs at level 3 is pretty crazy and then pick one of the higher tiered Races such as Dhampir as they can be used as a 1d4(or 2d4 if generous)+Con bonus to ability checks if the rest of the party are ok with a "light kiss" to inspire you a bit once in a while. Or you can go with Tabaxi and abuse both Feline Agility and Steady Aim in order to alternate between double triple move and then Steady Aim whilst escaping at an average of 90ft per round... which is still faster than most characters 60ft per round and you can be making a ranged sneak attack during the off turn. there are a few other silly combos as well
This guide series is made with the intent to highlight the most broken features of each class! Is rogue the best class out there? Probably not. But I think they really shine at certain levels of play and there are some wild options for builds out there involving rogue as one of the class options.
@@ConstructedChaos I agree that certain options on the rogue are good, however I think the rogue is only able to keep up in their specialist role where other characters could fill that role by working together such as if the group decided to take two characters with either the Urchin, Criminal, or Urban Bounty Hunter background for traps and locks, the rogue generally has problems keeping up with sustained damage in comparison to fighter at the normal levels of play which is about 5-9. And stealth wise the rogue has the problem of potentially being the only person who can stealth... unless a Ranger, Druid or Earth Genasi brings along a casting of Pass without Trace which is usually enough to get past any creatures passive perception.
TLDR: Rogue isn't bad but it can be covered by the party working together whereas other primary roles are much harder to cover with effective party composition.
I love how my youtube recommendations include this video right next to the Pack Tactics video saying that rogues suck
Hahaha perfectly balanced… as it should be…
My best character was an arcane trickster rogue, no one has witness the terror of a maid who is uncannily good at cleaning and when bandits burst into the tavern to kill the party she said “if you could, please remove your shoes I worked very hard to clean this establishment.
They told her to back off or she’ll get hurt, first one took a crit dart to the face and died instantly, the party rushed into combat and at the end I joined them.
No one ever suspects the maid
Haha Mrs. Medieval Doubtfire!
15:35 more of this for the barbarian video please
Hahahaha you can bet on that!
I want to know are the druids broken i would love to hear about that..I love to use druids,Rogues,Acane tricksers,warlocks,And my favorite Race is elfs,and haflings..don't use many other Races..But i would love to jear about the druids in 5 Ed
It looks like Clerics will be the next class I cover but I'll definitely get to Druids soon!
11:00 what does optional mean in this context?
It means that it's optional for certain tables. Some DMs allow the optional rules in tasha's cauldron and some don't. I, personally, always allow the new rules but you'll want to check with your DM first!
Thieves cant is the most fun thing to reflavor ! In my current campaign I just straight up (gay up) learned Polari for thieves cant
Haha I love hearing the odd phrases people use for it!
wow this was a lone time coming. while i dont consider rogues 'broken" (i consider it a bottom 3 class in the game), but its definitely one of the "coolest" classes. it's a class i typically play in rpg video games. i enjoyed the skits. well done sadboi! Snack attack!
loved the dig at monks! more! more! and the thieves cant jokes. i think this is your funniest vid. if you're going towards this direction script wise i approve!
i dont consider the arcane trickster as the best rogue subclass. phantom imo is #1 but thats because i value tier 2 play vs tier 1 play. arcane trickster as the pick is plausible as #1 in tier 1 play. i'd round out the top 3 with assassin. i consider mastermind and inquisitor as trash subclasses. scout and swashbuckler niche. swashbuckler is good. i consider it #4. thieves i consider swingy as its dM dependent. if dm allows bombs, dynamites, etc then it's awesome. if the dm just limits you to the typical mundane items in the phb then it's meh. i dont value the soul knife as much as you do because i weight combat value higher and the soul knife excels at the out of combat role of being a skill monkey. while psychic blades is indeed cool, it's very clunky that it doesn't work with extra attack, reaction attacks (like AOO which rogues like to do for a 2nd sneak attack) and gets devalued once you get a good magic weapon. the dmg dice is also lower than a rapier (a common rogue melee weapon). so in a more skill challenge focused campaign, i think it's one of the best rogues (top 3 at least). in a more combat oriented campaign it's one of the worst rogues (bottom 3 with the mastermind/inquisitor).
I'll share one of my few optimized rogue builds in a separate comment.
I agree completely. I give Rogues high levels for flavor and out of combat uses for stealthing and expertise, but other than that pretty meh class with B tier damage and very boring mechanics (attack plus sneak attack and repeat).
Thanks for the kind words, Rob! And I know it's taken me a while. Much of that time was spent over the holidays figuring out a new direction for the channel that isn't JUST talking head stuff. I really enjoyed making these skits and I think you can expect to see more of that going forward as I feel out how they do on CZcams. My next video will likely be a skit on its own!
(even though the joke about monks did kill me inside a little bit)
@@ConstructedChaos awesome! and don't worry about monks. they're pacifists by default. they wont really hurt you.
@@Dave004 i dont give them the edge out of combat anymore tbh. bards can do more out of combat than a rogue (stealth is for everyone) and they have a high amount of expertise just like rogue. and they have spells to circumvent out of combat challenges that rogues cant. rangers also can get a couple of expertise and spells so he's pretty much better there than the rogue as well imo as rogues have to "play by the rules." casters don't. there's no use for them really as they are also mediocre in combat outclassed by casters and extra attack classes. to illustrate:
gloomstalker vs. soulknife (the best skill monkey rogue class)
category: stealth
level: 5
soul knives can gain expertise and psi-bolstered knack (d8). they still have to break line of sight/find cover which they don't have in their innate kit.
gloomstalkers can gain expertise and pass without trace (+10). so they have a higher bonus. they don't have to break line of sight/find cover every time because of umbral sight. they are essentially walking around invisible in darkness/dark shadow. and they can cover more ground scout wise as they can cast speak with animals for free and task them to cover another area.
@@TheRobversion1 😂😂😂
Where are the images in 1:15, 5:44 and 34:24 from? I LOVE THEM!
Haha funny enough, you've picked out 3 AI generated images from this video :)
@@ConstructedChaos are they free to use or where did you get them? Is there a way so I can download them in a lager scale? I also have to say, that I rly like your Videos I'm watching your Artificer one right now and told my Friends about you and send them this rogue Video because it's my favorite class :D
@@lasseh.2802 Sure! I'll upload them to a dropbox file here for ya! I generated them myself so they aren't really available anywhere else.
www.dropbox.com/sh/3y6g0d32rmwhtkr/AAAfP-zxZcGK7nhFS_A9rS3Ya?dl=0
That said, I'm glad you're enjoying the content!! There's more to come soon when I get back home in March but I should have one more video posted this week! :D
@@ConstructedChaos THANKS DUDE!
@@lasseh.2802 of course! Happy to help!
Do you have a Gloom Stalker Ranger / Rogue Multi-class build?
I'm sure I've done one in the past but I can't remember. You can BET I'll make one on the channel eventually!
@@ConstructedChaos Love all your content.
@@wmdavidhamilton Thanks so much! I'm glad you're enjoying it!
I am just starting to learn D&D and when with a Gnome Rouge
@@bieryroland sounds like a great first character! Happy adventuring and let me know if you need help with anything!
im going to have my very first game of dnd next weekend. the idea for my first character is a gnome tinker. an inventor, a MacGyver. i want to set up mechanical traps, throw self build smoke grenades and shoot my crossbow wich i want to modify as my character grows. i hope that i (and the dm) can somehow put that into the rules. i didnt pick the artificer because i didnt want to deal with any magic so i picked the rogue and aiming for the thief arch type. the char is going to suck in acrobatic and athletic and many social skills, also i dont see a very good melee fighter in him. he is a mister gadget with a fancy crossbow. now i looked some rogue guides on youtube and now im wondering if it would be any good if i focus that much on range dps. rogues seem to have no acces to a bonus attack (unless id pick scout and gain a billion lvls) so the only bonus i can get next to sneak attack seems to be reaction attacks (like from the sentinel trait) which pretty much look like a melee thing.
is my character idea viable? can a range rogue keep up? (with melee rogues and/or other classes)
Your rogue sounds like a really cool idea and they can definitely keep up with other classes. You'll find a lot of success in skill check situations and any combat where you can get in your sneak attack. Obviously, you won't be provoking AOO with a ranged weapon but a lot can be said about keeping your rogue alive and using your bonus action for cunning action and steady aim. On the note of artificer, I totally get your hesitance in dealing with spells. But, your idea definitely feels very akin to artificer and I think it could be worth exploring one day!
thanks for the quick respond :) in the meantime i talked to my future dm and he said that i can take the optional steady aim rule as long as i dont turn into an immobile turret :D sesion zero is tomorrow. im excited.@@ConstructedChaos
I have a nightlord build
That 7 conquest and 13 phantom
Nice! I've actually never played a Paladin before but that'll probably be one of my next guides so I'm sure I'll gain some insight then!
Evasion made my DM sooooo mad today to a point he said im gonna start coming at you harder with physical fighters cause a bad guy cast fire ball and i was like evasion and suceeded on the saving throw and was like im fine and he was like its too op and didnt believe me or other party members on how it worked he had to ask a friend who has more experience DM'ing how to handle it cause he wanted to make it so i could only do it 1 time per round 😂
I don't know if you want to pass this along to your DM but there are other saving throws to target besides dexterity haha.
@@ConstructedChaos he knows he just hasnt played rogues before and isnt too familiar with them and before i joined the party the rogue they had the person played sneak attack like evasion and so the DM was confused
Can someone please list all the ways a rogue can get advantage. Thanks much.
Haha well there are lots of ways for characters in general to get advantage--much less just the rogue. At the very least, flanking, attacking while hidden, and steady aim are pretty common ones!
I wonder if a Warforged Assassin might be any good?
I don't see why not! Makes me think of the assassin droids from Star Wars!
@@ConstructedChaos more like Revenant from Apex Legends
can you do a blood hunter is broken plz and ty vm
I'll definitely knock that out once I cover the core classes! You aren't the first person to ask for it and I won't forget! :D
hexblade swashbuckler fun af
Ooooo that does sound like a fun multiclass!
I think you actually underestimate the Phantom a bit. At 17th level, a Phantom rogue with elven accuracy deals over 80 damage per round on average, every single round. Crossbow expert battle masters are dealing roughly 52 damage per round by contrast. If you can get booming blade on the attack, the average damage per round goes up to just over 100. And that's all accounting for the percentage chance that the attack misses.
Hmmm maybe I did! I didn’t think that was possible with how high I was on the phantom overall.
@@ConstructedChaos the way you usually calculate average damage per round is by taking half the max possible damage, and then multiply by .6 (imitating the common 60% chance to hit that you'll have against most enemies) and then I believe you add in the amount of damage you'd do on a crit multiplied by crit chance (usually .05).
Advantage obviously makes that damage calculation higher, and the reason why the actual damage for Phantom with elven accuracy goes so high is because elven accuracy turns the 60% chance to hit into a 94% chance to hit with a 14% chance to crit. I believe the Phantom rogue has the highest average damage per round that can be consistently dealt every round.
@@ArvelDreth Right! It's certainly up there and I absolutely love the flavor of it. I've played with the subclass before as well. However, I felt the need to point out that the 17th level ability was just a little extra damage compared to what the rest of the subclass and class give you overall.
Still, to my surprise, I think I could've pumped it up a little more!
@@ConstructedChaos I definitely get that, aside from doing something like taking Shadow Touched for invisibility while using ghost walk for scouting, and interrogating spirits for information, the class admittedly doesn't add as much extra utility as something like arcane trickster. But I was still kind of in disbelief when I ran a test encounter and saw how high the damage numbers got. Even at level 9.
@@ArvelDreth They give you some flexible proficiency that I'm fond of but, yeah it's mostly damage that you get--in the form of a somewhat well-resisted necrotic variety. Again, I'm totally with you! Just explaining my reasoning on it!
I thought he said he wouldnt go further in most of the subclasses and he did hahahha leaving no time for the rest of the rogue features
Haha I didn’t go over every last thing but I did do more detail than usual because people have asked for it in the comments of my previous class guides. Either way, I promise it didn’t come at the cost of time spent addressing the base class features. The ones you get at later levels are just pretty simple haha.
If find it quite salty when people say how broken the rogue is, before they launch literal magic missiles and fireballs.
Haha just depends on what you value, really!
You forgot about the sentinel feat
Did I? The sentinel feat is not part of the Rogue class.
I have no clue why rogues get longsword proficiency, but no scimitar.
Longswords are worse than a dagger. (1d10+0 vs 1d4+1d6+4)
And scimitars are basically *the* weapon for pirates
That is an odd observation... I'd imagine most DMs would be fine to homebrew that one in!
I actual don't play a "Edgelord" My goal is to keep my character sensible and he try to keep everyone together. He is more a detective.
Well played! Inquisitive subclass?
9:13 So, wait, if I Dash + Bonus Dash and then double my speed with Tabaxi's feline agility... that means my max movement speed can be 180 ft per round.
L. m. f. a. o.
Don’t forget to add in some haste speed! Haste and Feline Agility are the only two things that actually double your base speed I believe.
Wait... according to haste i also gain an additional action but i can only attack with a one handed weapon, disengage, hide, use object *or dash a third goddamn time lmfao*
That means for a Tabaxi Rogue at level two under the haste spell...
30 tabaxi base speed + 30 dash action + 30 bonus cunning action + 30 haste additional action
X2 from Feline agility
X2 *again* with Haste
... that is 480ft/r or 54.5 miles per hour. Almost twice as fast as Usain Bolt.
I'm going to fall in love with this game ❤
@@GoodnightMoon666 mmmhmmmmm 😜
silly that rogues are better rangers than rangers
I get the whole tracking gimmick, but you would assume that they would at least get Vanish at level 1 or 2 so that they are at least balanced with rogues
I think an argument can still be made in favor of rangers in other areas too, though. Access to spell-casting across all subclasses is certainly something!
re: stealth - unless your DM is 100% lame about stealth....
That's one thing DND 5e really needs better rules for. It leaves so much up for interpretation.
Assassin 17th level feature can instant ko.
Oh it definitely can. But I think you'd be more likely to get that result by classing into gloomstalker or fighter or both before that point.
@@ConstructedChaos what I meant was regardless of health, but you are right that that's a very potent way to do it.
First time playing with some friends, first mission simply to kill 5 rats bards puts the rats to sleep iget advantage all rats insta dead to sneak atack
Haha perfect execution!
Multiclass barbarian rouge is busted. Rouge features don't really hit that hard after 15. 5 levels of barbarian hit extremely hard. They seem to go perfect together.
That's not a combination I would have imagined off the bat! Nice!
My rogue has a somewhat edgy back story they killed themself out of guilt and then became a reborn but I’ve very happy with how ro is turning out with them they’re very curious and somewhat gullible but Jesus is it fun to never fail a stealth roll
I jest at edgy backstories in the video but there's nothing wrong with going that direction either!!
@@ConstructedChaos I LOVE YOU
Ranger can get expertise at level 1 as well.
They get proficiency bonus doubled in one skill if they use the new optional features from Tasha's and less proficiencies overall. You're 100% right. But it isn't really as potent as what we see here and that's what I was trying to get at.