Review: Red Dragon / Rawlings synthetic practice swords
Vložit
- čas přidán 4. 02. 2015
- ** Where to find them **
In Canada:
www.warriorsandwonders.com/Raw...
In the USA:
www.woodenswords.com/?Click=1799
In the UK:
www.theknightshop.co.uk/catalo...
** Pros / Cons **
+ Safer and more realistic than wooden swords
+ Affordable training tools
+ Interchangeable guards and pommels
+ Good shape and proportions
- Overly flexible
- Lower weight compared to other nylon swords
- Very slippery in the bind, to the point of making binding and winding techniques impossible
********************************************************************************
My favorite online store for buying swords (worldwide shipping):
ww4.aitsafe.com/go.htm?go=kult...
Want to help fund future videos?
/ skallagrim
My gaming channel:
/ @skallcave6324
My Facebook page:
/ skallagrimyt - Zábava
I like these since you can unscrew the pommels. It means I can practice ending my opponent rightly.
"You can unscrew the pommel and-"
I honestly thought for a moment you'd throw it
SkallaGrim:"You Can Unscrew The Pommel And-"
Me:"THROW IT, THROW IT AT THE ENEMY!!!!"
Skallagrim:"Change Hits."
Me: :''''''(
My thoughts exactly.
2:26
_"one of the things I really like about these is that you can unscrew the pummel..."_
And throw it at your opponent!
Thought you were gonna say "Unscrew the pommel and throw it at the enemy."
You really need to follow the show to understand this one!
That's how you end your opponent rightly.
What if it doubles as a grenade? Ooooo gotcha
"There is an odd technique mentioned in one of the old manuscripts..."
I had already forgotten the pummelthrowing technique. Thank you. :D
Also, sanding the edges to a semi-rough finish works wonders on the slippery factor. Some also get good results with friction-tape on the edges as well.
(Although they're still gonna be slippery no matter what you do.)
love the new camera, love the different focus ranges and all that, its great :)
I imagine a thin coating of rubber could give the blade more traction to deal with the sliding problem.
Elfos64 plasti dip spray can. 20 bucks and peels of when you want to remove it.
I use the Rawlings Synthetic Longsword for sparring. Since we don’t have much protective gear (aside from winter coats), we use these and while they still hurt to get hit with. It’s a much safer alternative to a steel feder. And the slipperiness promotes aggressive plays, which are always more fun to fight against (in my experience). The slipperiness has also led me to develop my own techniques (don’t know how they’d hold up against steel.) that focus on parrying less than binding.
I love synthetic/nylon wasters. Back when the HEMA crowd was still using them for almost everything, I used to use wooden wasters like the NSA Hand-and-Half (gorgeous balance, btw) for both drilling and sparring.
Unfortunately mine tended to break and splinter around the 10-12 month point, and they could be a bit dangerous in their timing.
However, synthetic wasters cost about the same, yet they are practically indestructible. I've had my Penti+ for almost 3 years now, and it's still as sound as the day I got it. They also pack far less of a punch when getting cut or thrust than wood. I used to only be able to go about 5 or 6 quick rounds with wood before I hurt too much to continue. With nylon, I can go twice that--and then I quit because I'm just gassed, rather than in pain. (With a cup, mask and gloves)
Another thing that I love about synthetics vs wood is the realistic hilt dimensions. With most synthetics, they use a metal cross and pommel of proper dimensions more often than not. This may not seem like much, but you quickly realize any flaws in your technique when you no longer have a much fatter and more forgiving wooden cross to hide behind.
(Countering an Oberhau with an indes Zwerchau was my personal epiphany. I found out that I was letting my opponent's blade get too horizontal of an angle, and it would catch me in the fingers when I switched to nylons and steel.)
In short, synthetics provide a more steel-like experience, but are more accommodating to those who don't own much gear yet.
The sparring I've done was with a rather short shortsword I carved from a shrubbery using a sickle and kitchen knife.
I used it for two years and still it fails to have a dent in it, despite smacking it into metal poles, which would occasionally dent the metal. I loved the thing, and it's still in Tennessee somewhere.
Id love it if you made a video giving tips on how to start teaching yourself about sword combat/practicing. List of protective gear, good books to buy, pros and cons of different beginning sword styles, etc.
I have no idea how to properly get started.
Thank you for the in-depth review and sharing your experience! I was considering this sword as my very first practice sword, but since I'm interested in German longsword I think I would be disappointed with this one. Thanks again
Hey skall, In my HEMA club we ran into the problem of sliding sparring sword analogues as well. I have since found a way to negate the sliding effect. If you use a heat gun and press sandpaper into the plastic it will create a very rough pattern and if both swords are "roughed up" this way then you can get the "Bite" you're looking for.
great vid! so now the excitement comes and when are you going to make a full contact practice session?
You could get a thin strip of rubber and glue/tape if there's adhesive rubber strips out there, that you can line the plastic blades with to grip to each other for a bind simulation.
Very interesting review. Thank you for mentioning the Problem with the basket hilt - was my first thought when I saw it compared to the profile of the plastic sword.
And if choosing a wooden alternative, rattan would be a good choice, as it is flexible to a certain degree and has no sharp edges if it breakes. Price is also an issue here.
Of course it is not flexible enough to thrust with it without goot protection and special thrusting tips.
for the slipping put ducktape on the edges it works surprisingly well but you will have to replace the tape regularly
Perhaps adding some jimping on the edges would improve their qualities in the bind when edge to edge, while retaining the slip against the flats.
electrical tape on the edges would fix the sliding a bit ;)
skall you're awesome! i wish i had a friend like you here in the states!
I just ordered one as a photography prop. The gray blade will work better than the white of the other kind.
Good video! Keep up the great work! Video quality has also improved greatly
Never thought id see the day but recently i actually bought the longsword rawlings. The main reason being that most clubs seem to use them for tournaments because they are safer a) there is a lot of variants in safety gear between clubs and B) the Black Fencers do transfer more power into blows being thicker and more dense. So even though i still favour my Black Fencer synthetic and i have steel feders on the way i thought it was a good idea to have one of these so i can train with the actual tournament weapon when needed. That being said its not much of a tournament using these swords, it just becomes a hackfest because as stated in this video, you cant bind at all. But entering any tournament is good competitive practice imo. They are still a good beginners longsword, and much more readily availible. I ordered mine on Friday night and received it on tuesday.....
You could file some grooves on the edge, so that it does grab edge to edge.
The sound wasn't damaged, just focused on one speaker, one that cellular devices dont make use of
What if someone filed the edges a bit, rough plastic surfaces may not slide too much
Great purchase on the camera! Looks great!
It's also nice to see they took into account the old dueling rules where you should throw your pommel at the opponent! (Still waiting to see a sparing video on pommel throwing)
My Hema club actually uses these against steel swords and they hold up very well.
Try putting a strip of friction tape on the edges, see if that helps with the slippage, for the rigidity it would need some type of metal rod in the center of it, which of course would not be an easy task for the buyer, it would be easier for the manufacturer to form the plastic around it
Hey Skall, have you ever thought about putting some kind of tape (i.e. isolant tape) in the edge on the edge of the nylon swords to enhance friction and make the slippery less of a problem?
Will you be doing a review on the Black Fencer waster? or did I miss that one?
Great video by the way. Awesome camera and great focusing.
You're getting really good at the organization of your vids especially with recapping the main points at the end. Thanks!
James November Of course I'm going to review them. :)
Thank you for this video i was actually at my local knife shop today and was debating on buying a Rawlings for 60 dollars i feel like that is a great price after watching this I'm probably going to go get it tomorrow
I suppose that you could put some kind of rubbery tape on the edges of these practice blades to add some friction. But that's just an idea.
Skall, have you considered adding a thin rubber strip to the edge with contact cement? I imagine you would have to replace it fairly frequently but that could allow binds.
I just recieved a couple of weeks ago the Blackfencer longsword (the ringed one which I believe is the same as yours) and I am by far more happy with that one than with the Red Dragon ones.. better handling, better protection, and at my point of view (which is not very extended but I've got a bit of practice) more close to the steel ones. And I don't really know the price between the two of them but in UK they are basically the same price.. if we take in account that the steel guard, and the steel pommel are extras that you have to pay separately on the Reddragon and are included on the Blackfencer ones.
Chu-Han Yes, me too. I'm currently using the Black Fencer swords.
I read that wrapping tape around the blade regularly can really help with the slippery nature of these
Try lining your synthetics' edges with grip tape -- really cool for practicing bind techniques and some on the tip helps to prevent thrusts deflecting/sliding off your opponent when a sharp wouldn't.
The tape they use on wrestling mats would probably work. They are tough gripy and clear. I just don't Know the name of it.
Lono5885 I did that. You can even see the grip tape on the false edge of the synthetic messer in the video. But it wears down very quickly, one good hit and the tape is all torn up.
***** makes me wonder why they don't make them out of a rubberized polymer. That would bind quite well.
*****
I would quess if you use grip tape on your edges, you will anyways have to change after every practice. But! Linquastic wall here, is grip tape the same stuff I roll over my hockey sticks blade? I bought a good tape from proper sports store and it has taken a ferocious beating with the puck, and it's still 100% intact.
We've been experimenting with various rubber compounds on the nylon and steel wasters. So far they aren't holding up too well, but as of the last practice our man Chris had found a very tough auto rubber that can be applied with a brush that seems to work. We shall see.
We use WMA synthetics, they work just fine. Though I'd love to be training with steel. Can't say I like the Rawlings much at all when I've used one always put it down for my WMA wasters ASAP.
I have found that for good sparing sword, Cold Steel makes, in my opinion, good plastic swords. They are thicker than their metal counterparts but they have good weight and rigidity. However that also means they hurt, a lot. So more productive gear is preferable for sparing. They also work well for endurance training
After swinging around the cold steel swords, swinging a regular bokken feels like swinging a rapier
have you tried, or considered, putting something like grip tape along the edge to make it slide less there,while maintaining the slipperiness on the flat.
could you add grip tape to the edge to improve the edge binding?
can you simply rough up the edge (with very rough grained sandpaper), to create some friction, and btw doesn't bringing the point of balance further to the tip, simulate a heavier blade (in swinging, etcetera, except for lifting, since only the weight matters in that regard)
The Purple Heart Armory No. III's are a bit better in my experience. We've used both quite a bit and on a hot day in particular the Rawlings start to sag ;-) But the big problem shows up when you pit a Rawlings against a No. III. The big nylon blade just blows past the thin plastic one. At this point the last person to practice usually gets stuck with one, but we're slowly phasing them out. Actually we're almost half steel now in longsword and all steel in I.33. The Albion Maestro steel is fricking AWESOME.
***** Yep, I'm currently using Black Fencer synthetics which are quite similar to the Pentti Type III.
I always thought those were heavier and more like 'rubberish' than plastic since I have seen similiar that are black. They are something like 80€ here in Finland.
a few Layers of Rough Duct Tape maybe Help with the Slipperyness if Applied on both Blades in use.
certainly it would add a little bit of weight.
That camera! Loving it!
What if you added some type of tape on the edges in an attempt to create extra friction? It would have to be tape...so that you can change / maintain the edges as they get used. I use hockey cloth tape (shouldn't be hard to find in Canada!) on my SCA rattan sword for that reason, adding friction. Also, I remember reading something about viking shields leaving the edges soft to catch blades (the blade gets stuck in the wood)....typically, friction or angular designs is desired...even with shields.
note on heating them up I believe scholagladiatoria said he just puts the blades into hot water for a while though this may depend on the brands aswell im not sure which brand he said anymore
I recently purchased a one of these blades in black. Was thinking of possibly spraying the blade lightly with possibly some sort of rubber coating.. Maybe with a truck bed liner possibly to add some grip to the blade? Couldn't hurt.
SinBADASSassin plasti dip
I bet you could put some rubbery mounting tape along the edges and get a better bind.
Do you think putting a line of grip tape along the edges of the rawlings swords might go some way to rectifying their slippiness? Or even gently sanding the edges so they have a rougher texture more suited to a bind?
would scuffing up the edges with sandpaper help with the blade sliding? though it would slightly ruin the sword
Could you insert a small amount of steel into the blade to remove some of the flexing(sorta ruins the point of the practice sword thought)?
I wonder if gluing a strip of leather or rubber to just the edge would give better/more accurate grip? Although then it might grip with edge against flat.
Worth a try no?
I wonder if we collectively try to think up solutions to this problem then apply that in a feasible manner the company would listen and possibly produce new blades? With a rubber edge slotted into the edge like the seals on many things, it would be interesting to see if this would help. I would do it if I was going to a club and thus could justify owning a synthetic blade or two but alas at the moment I cannot.
I wonder if an abrasive could be applied to the edges of this sword to give it bite in the bind
***** For the rawlings, would you perhaps be able to get some form of rubber edges to create a fair amount of traction and reduce the sliding (It would wear off easily though) Would this work at all?
I'm really digging the new camera, Skall, but in the interest of videography I might recommend that you keep the camera focused on yourself. In these videos you're the instructor, the speaker, the talking head if you will, and it's important to keep the audience focused on the speaker, and keeping your head in focus is conducive to that.
***** Alright. I just figured it would be better to focus on the object that is being reviewed, but I don't have to do it that way.
***** No I definitely disagree. Focusing on the object lets you see it much better, and since it's the focal point of the video it wouldn't make sense to have it all fuzzy; wouldn't be able to see it properly in all its detail. Just an opinion though of course, but if you focused on the background on a vlog-type video and left yourself blurry that wouldn't make much sense would it? It's because you're the focal point in that situation, and just like you aim the camera at knives when you review them and not yourself, I really would like to see the thing you're reviewing the best I can. Thanks for producing great stuff Skall!
***** That's a good idea, but I would definitely prefer to see the thing he's showing the best I can when he's showing it off, so if he were to find a happy medium. he can focus on himself when talking about things like personal experience with the product, and focus on the product when talking about the flexibility, design, etc.
***** I enjoyed it focused on the blade, considering that it is the subject of the video and should be the focus
***** Not sure if you can set the aperture on that camera, but if you can a smaller aperture setting (a higher F-number) will bring things beyond the focal point into focus as well, so you can get yourself as well as the sword. It may require more light in the room, though.
i want to start practising hema and want to practise sword and shield and have a realy limited budget so i will get one of these swords
Do the "other" nylon waster review please, i'm deciding what to purchase ;)
Hmm. How far out is the weight and balance with the metal fittings? Could it be fixed with some ballast towards the tip? Also could the sliding issue perhaps be resolved with something like athletic tape or, as someone else mentioned, a thin strip of foam/rubber tape along the cutting edge?
Would it make any sense to sand the sides to give them more grip for blade on blade?
I feel like if you sand it down that can assist in binding slightly
Do you think you'd be able to replicate the blades catching by putting a small strip of soft rubber along the "cutting" edge on the plastic swords?
@Skallagrim would you ever do a review of the medieval two handed maul? I think it is a very interesting weapon but the only videos that I have ever seen of mauls are splitting mauls and gameplay from Chivalry Medieval Warfare which are very good but it'd be nice to have your opinion on such a weapon
Perhaps you could sandpaper the edges to increase the friction a bit.
And note that they each came from different sellers, July of Athena and Amazon.
Could having 3 swords work one 2 hand and 2 one hand the one hand swords for dual wielding
Have you considered double sided adhesive tape along the edge or maybe using a medium fine file to rough up the edge for binding?
Thin strips of hockey tape along the edge of each cobatants swords to provide the "bind effect"?
Do you know where I can find this type of training swords in Norway? I know you used to live here. I have been looking on some websites that ships international, but the shipping price is rediculously high. And everything is twice as expencive in Norway than what it is elswhere
It's not possible to have a coating on the blade for make it more rough?
i do German long sword and these do not work, i actually use the polypropylene ones by cold steel as they offer a little more friction
How about two people fencing Steel Feder against this synthetic longsword? will the synthetic one be damaged so much it cant be used anymore? anyone experience?
While it is not necessarily a review material (at least not if we take the blade "as is"), I would like to point out a few things again. I do like the point about it being cheaper. It is a training tool, it is not for show purposes, so if one is not afraid of a little handwork and doesn't mind their training weapons looking like they have been tampered with, I think their quality could be improved significantly (or at least, the points you brought up can be addressed).
Regarding point of balance, it is neat that you can replace the handle, pommel, etc. One could use heavier (or lighter) materials to play with the point of balance to one's liking. That adds an extra layer of versatility.
And then there is stiffness and the fact the blades don't bind rather well, and I think they can be fixed (or at least improved) in basically one go. You know what they say, duct tapes fixes all. You can put a flat layer of plastic on both sides of the blade that is less flexible (or even one long strip of tape along the middle of the flat from guard to close to the tip), which is also nice since it can be adjust to personal tastes. Then cover the blade in tape (remove the hilt, run the tape in a spiral manner around it so there are NO overlapping, trim the excesses, reassemble). That should fix stiffness, even if it adds a bit of blade weight and minimal thickness (but doesn't change the tapper), and probably also the binding. If not, one can easily put something along the "edges" to make little bumps so that they bind better. Or even some tape with the glue side outwards along the edge so that when two blades bind they will certainly not slide easily.
Will it look pretty? Unlikely. But if you ask me that doesn't really matter. You can even use colour coding with the tape and stuff (each colour equals a different configuration).
TL;DR: while as is it has some significant draw backs, for the lower price and a bit of handwork I believe they can be made in rather good practice tools.
even though you are not one for katanas could you go over the best way to use them and what you personally think is the best style for people that use them?
Are the metal quillens really worth the price, when the plastic cross guards are so much cheaper to replace? Does the metal quillen bite or chip the plastic on the blade?
To address the slipperiness issue, have you considered sanding the edge to provide some grip?
Or put fiction tape on the edge.
I'd like to see someone 3D print custom crossguards and pommels for these.
Skallagrim, I know you are not a fan of the Cold Steel practice blades, but I am not a professional and mostly self taught in swordsman ship. I was thinking of getting the basket hilt blade. My question is, do you think that these blades will hold up against the cold steel sparring blades in full contact sparring ?
Can you do a video on the blackfencer trainers? I think that would be time well spent. I have handled them and believe that more people need to know about them. They are amazing.
August S Yes, a review of those is on my to-do list.
Awesome! I look forward to seeing it!
I bought two, one for myself, one for my brother, we practice Meyer style german fencing, both broke during our first sparring session. I was wondering if this a problem that other people had experienced? I know I have used purple heart feders and they are amazing, I just felt silly spending the amount purpleheart asks for synthetics, but would going to purpleheart be my best option for a durable synth?
Why not intentionally make them with rough edges to simulate the bind?
try to apply parafine to these blades (in order to improve the "grip").
I appropriate that the sword might be the important part and so you set the focus on it, but you being blurry and the background seeming blurry makes it a bit.. distracting.
Hey Skall, have you ever tried out the Purpleheart Type III Federschwert Longswords? If so, what do you think of them?
you could try roughening up the edges with sanding paper, that way both swords can bite a little bit more and not feel like lubricated rubber. *****
Do you think that putting grip tape on the edges would fix the slipping problem?
Small tip: You can improve the camera's depth of field by having it further away. Maybe your setup doesn't allow that but it's still good to keep in mind.
Neat video nonetheless.
Kelerik The camera is already as far away as I can get it, standing right up against the wall. I'll need a second lens for these indoor shots eventually.
Any news about if they "fixed" the binding problem? Or has someone come up with a good solution?
How did medieval fighters typically keep their blades sharp and nicely profiled in light of the inevitable "chewing up" that happens? I imagine there were multiple levels of re-profiling, sharpening, and maybe even some reforging/other heavy repairs necessary?
do a video about if running from your opponent helps
If I am on budget, should I go for Rawlings instead? Pentti seems very pricy for my current wage.
Also, about the guard, does the Rawlings regular Black one have three round ends (unlike the Stainless Steel which looks like a normal guard) or is that your own black guard? (I'm referring to the last video)
i heard red dragon swords are good for beginners because people new to swordfighting tend to hit very hard. im thinking of beginning to do HEMA. would you recommend the red dragon over blackfencer for a beginner?
Could you put duct tape on the edge of the blade, would that help when your in the bind.
***** As a guy using a Rawlings myself, I say this is basically the perfect review.
Although, a couple of points:
Not sure, but I suspect you have an old version of the Rawlings Arming blade there... Newer versions are slightly stiffer than the older ones, and mine is significantly more rigid, though is is still a bit bendy, and is much less likely to take a set then the one you showed here, and it doesn't have that thickened tip. Also, I think it depends on color, because from what I've seen, the white blades they have are much floppier than the silver ones. The flexibility hasn't hurt my practice any with the arming sword though, even though I use it as a longsword, as it never seems to bend because of cuts, just thrusts.
On the longsword version of that Rawling you have, I don't recommend, even the newer versions seem almost flaccid compared to the arming sword.
As for the sliding, can't defend one iota. But, I've seen forum posts where people apply strong friction tape to the blade edges to simulate how sharps bind. I've not tried it, but you may want to check that out for all of your synthetics later.
Sorry for the wall of text. Keep of the good work, Skall!
love your videos wanted to say you can get some spray rubber stuff pretty cheaply or use a cloth textured tape. or if you dont mind realy getting a lil bite if you get hit in the flesh.. you can run coarse sand paper on the edge. to give swords with too much slip some bite. i used a rock... >.>
Oh and before i forget.. flex with plastic can be more or less adjusted with heat as well it's just tricky.. plastic can be annealed and tempered the key is to only heat and stiffen or soften in some places depending on what you're going for.. key spots. recommend you don use the sword to learn this unless you buy a spare for that purpose different plastic work ..well different. ok all done :D
Would you be able to use it against a steel practice sword? or would it break very soon?
First I want to say thank you for all of the work you put into these videos, I love them to death.
Second, I've wanted to get some of these for awhile, but have been curious about how they would last in combat against a ColdSteel Polypropylene sword? Would one of those damage these Red Dragon swords? Or vice versa
hunter VanZeben You yourself havent found an answer yet have you ? i own a Red Dragon one handed sword and i will be against my friend using one made by Cold steel of polypropylene, im worried about my beautiful swords health, thankyou
I haven't done too much sparring with them, and we weren't going too intensely at it but my red dragon messer is still in great condition after several bouts against cold steel training weapons
Thank you very much for the quick response, that's very reassuring.
Cheers !
I got 3 of these recently and they seem to be alot stiffer.