5. From Panic to Suffering
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- čas přidán 3. 03. 2014
- MIT 6.868J The Society of Mind, Fall 2011
View the complete course: ocw.mit.edu/6-868JF11
Instructor: Marvin Minsky
In this lecture, students discuss Chapter 4 of The Emotion Machine, covering topics such as the relationship between pain, hurt, and perception, and how the mind exploits emotions.
License: Creative Commons BY-NC-SA
More information at ocw.mit.edu/terms
More courses at ocw.mit.edu
Watching Minsky struggle with basic powerpoint stuff is pretty reassuring.
I feel better about myself hearing some of these students talk and knowing they're at MIT
They are freshman... so fresh out of high school. If you were born in 1975
I want to give this guy some water
He really needs it.
A cup of water yah
Y yo a ti un cerebro
You corney.
Get this man a glass of freaking water omg
0:30 ~ Consciousness
25:55 ~ Qualia
58:20 ~ Causal Diversity
1:31:55 ~ Sci-Fi
Can anybody tell me where in the lecture suffering is discussed? Why is panic and suffering in the title? Thanks for saving me 2 hours.
tell us about the island
Marvin is a genius and the 🐐 of lip smacking asmr ❤️
I really have to agree, I sleep really good.
You should try listening to Paul Samuelson
@@wyattluster I do listen to Paul before Marvin lol, put any sleep ade out of business.
What's going on here ? Who are all you people ? Lip Smacking Obsession ? Really ? 🤣🤣🤣
@@DipayanPyne94it’s ASMR, babe. Keep up
I feel so grateful of having the opportunity to see this whole lecture
I Agree
I doubt it
@@johnqpublic2718 ?
@@johnqpublic2718 you think the techbrains will get the problem here, like, ever?
Lying liar
So bright, so kind, such a great listener such a great teacher.
This guy was friends with Epstein and was also accused
soy de argentina llegue aca y me sirvio muchisimo. Gracias por su trabajo honorable viejardo. le deseo todo lo bueno a toda su organizacion.
Aguante Argentina papu 🇦🇷
1:45 lip smoking makes me sleep
Not bad for 87.
botany is plants not mushrooms (which is mycology) 1:36:34
That "for example" guy is back at it 🙄
i know a dog they took with a car and abandoned on the other side of an 8 lanes highway and he returnrd Also seen on the net a cat found his family when they moved homes and couldnt find him before leaving ,Of course it makes sense that participating is the way they/we learn but they must have other ways too
Damn, MIT used the projected title for my autobiography on this video clip.
You know that MIT accepted millions of dollars from Epstein right?
Nobody, and I mean nobody, will ever read your book about your life...
What cheery, humorous people I do attract in my replies.
@@yohei72 unfortunately that’s the CZcams comment section
Im just here for the ASMR 😴😴
me too, I have no idea what anyone is learning here.
@@natesmith9213😂😂
shout out for the person choosing the thumbnails
The first topics discussed
IS THERE A CENTRAL PROBLEM OF CONSCIOUSNESS?
Minsky disagrees with Pinker...
21:00 What is going on in Joan's mind?
21:50 Minsky asserts that there is no hard problem of consciousness.
24:00 There are lots of hard problems.
26:00 the central problem is qualia
30:18 Why do the philosophers pick on colour?
32:00 Diagrams of inside Joan's mind
33:00 two mental activities
34:46 "the processes that we lump into consciousness involve lots of different activities"
39:00 IS THERE something "simple, indescribable and absolute" about certain qualities?
48:50 They want to... say that they can't imagine how anything that has an explanation... could feel pain or sorrow or anxiety... And I think this is a curious idea that is stuck in our culture, which is that: If something is hard to express, then it must be because it is so different from everything else that there's no way tl describe it.
51:46 What is pain? Pain is a reaction of some very smart parts of your mind, to the malfunctioning of other parts of your mind.
53:30 Why "The Emotion Machine" only mentions qualia once.
54:40 Causal Diversity idea. If there's a phenomenon going on (e.g. being in pain), how do you explain it?
Love this guy :)
I see he upgraded the projector slides lol
It seems as though real consciousness would be a byproduct of child bearing enhanced in the hyper social animal. A learned trait of empathy in debt to offspring/bloodline/antibully/survival.
well, not feeling the EMPATHY line.
Another REPRESENTATION might be "your born with the capability" call it consciousness and YES and you mean growing up & the "HSA" tribe group INTERACT in service & from a core do no harm position
YeS, experience = full E M P A T H Y
I describe a woman having a baby, I will only be able to sympathize as a man EVER
BUT if I was a woman that had experienced the birthing event I would be able to totally E M P A T H I Z E
So YeS empathy goes too "HSA" group, tribe, function social proper HUMAN thing
your last line goes into empathy maybe when you change the view and ask HOW many times have we Re-C Y C L E D and the DNA but exactly, who knows
/;^) Always Forward
this man is a treasure.
Kathryn Harrold omg yes😂
Unfortunately he was a terrible man. He spent a lot of time with Epstein.
free will is when you are unaware of what made you do that
no
No it’s just not being self aware
RIP
In the process of growing,
the main concern is how to overcome
egoism and dig up the roots of evil.
The idea of free will has that important to law but to ignorant people. You can punish ppl committing crime, and the reason is to protect yourself. The real question isn't "Was this meditated?" but how likely this is to repeat. And after all, if all has a cause and we don't have a choice, then even without the idea of free will, that crime was un-avoidable. Anyone has a different idea?
Punishment and lack of free will are perfectly consistent with each other. Consider: if you're arguing that a person is nothing but a product of their environment, well, the criminal justice system can become a part of that environment. In other words, if it's all about conditioning, just think of punishment as conditioning as well.
It would have been interesting to see Minsky's reaction to what AI in 2024 is capable of. Maybe a video with ASMR mouth sounds more soporific than Minsky's. Anyway RIP and I thank him for my best sleeps.
Food for thought 🤔
About half a billion... and I'm right!! Bazinga!
1:27:54 - 1:28:46
Chris C hes in the alcor basement... just chillin. 😂😂😂
interesting to listen to him. as a side note, though, i suppose if i never took philosophy courses i would likely also walk away from his lecture and have acquired an impression that the philosophy department probably deserves to be on the chopping block during the next round of budget cuts. I would actually go study philosophy from philosophers, though, before drawing my own opinion about it.
It's easy to draw false impressions about a thing from someone elses interpretation of the thing. Most ideas are garbage. From that to me naturally follows that most ideas in even valid fields are garbage. That doesn't make the entire field garbage. I hate with a passion those philosophers who think they can just think about something and arrive at the truth. Someone, I can't remember who, has described philosophy as "thinking about thinking" and as this age of unreality has dawned, I can't think of anything more important than that.
@@libaf5471 and this is all your opinion, not fact
@@waitwhat6882 How would you prove "philosophy is garbage" as a fact, without the same thing being applicable to almost anything? Anyone can have a bad idea. Computer science has produced a metric shit ton of bad ideas. It doesn't mean computer science is garbage.
Am I the only one listening to this and literally not understanding what the hell he's talking about?
Can anybody tell me where in the lecture suffering is discussed? Why is panic and suffering in the title?
16:42
I wish CZcams had a 4X speed option
Same 😅
Yes, Euclid knew of ellipses.
So why don't animals "utilize" free will? My dog does the same shit every day. When will he begin to learn English?
I can’t believe how dry-mouthed these MIT professors are, it’s becoming somewhat of a common theme in these free CZcams courses.
Really unfortunate this guy passed before seeing LLMs come to fruition.
"They help to keep you alive, but they won't help you write your thesis". I disagree... I do find this man to be brilliant but he is most definitely mistaken with regards to how anxiety and cortisol work. Without the proper emotions, you wouldn't feel the pressure of the upcoming deadline. If you didn't have enough cortisol you'd probably fall asleep.
He defines a toothache as the symptom of pain. Thank god his dentist had actual clinical insight.
The guy did work on nerves
😊😊
Does MIT charge tuitions for this?
3:55 is me 😂😂😂
Probs of artif intell and logic paradoxes. Wonderful irony having computer prob. 'From panic to suffering' to me sounds bit like Buddhism. Don't panic and carry a towel aka keep a sense of humor, arrow of time shorter so yup, delivery of wisdom requires more patient suffering than willing to invest unless can close caption and turn off sound!
1:50:26 Noam Chomsky has been real quiet since this dropped
Complex phrases are harder to parse, but it does not mean they are ungrammatical.
Im pretty sure this gets easier in languages with a case system that helps with the parsing.
Plus recursion needs not happen within the same sentence.
I saw a man. He had a cat. The cat played with a ball. The ball bounced down the stairs. etc.
what are K-lines?
bryant ho it’s one of those things where everyone’s too afraid to ask for fear of being the only person who doesn’t understand a damn thing this man is talking about.
Lines of ket 😂
Knowledge lines. It's written about in his publications.
this 1:28:39
MAY A MACHINE IMIC CONCIOUSNESS ???
12:02 was that a fart??
uh, no.
N emotions are n bits but that is the number of emotions not the information provided by n emotions...
god, what kind of food ate this guy,
lol What?
Vicks Formula 44 used to have codeine in it.......
He doesn't present an actual argument against the hard problem of consciousness. He just reduces it to a program and offers the most tedious list of tautologies I've ever seen on a projector in my life.
Isn't that exactly the problem that he as recognized and is urging his students to work at/on them? Dude you sound like a fanatic
My belief is the animals act more sane than humans.
We think too much no lol
27:40 heavennnnn
Horrible Audio during the end
So theoretical....What's the midterm going to be on? Describe the brain in terms of K Lines?
Probably no midterm. This course was done in a discussion and/or seminar format (open format). It's not a class/course in the traditional sense.
I think he is wrong. Blue and green versus vanilla and chocolate. He doesn't get it. But who am I?
MIT students cant explain RAM and drive types
Re: Red and green and stabbed: what if you are color blind? I've never seen a point missed by so much
This is so hard to follow. He doesn’t finish his sentences. He seems to simultaneously really know his subject matter, and then also “forget” the salient details of the tangents he takes.
He's well advanced in age here. He passed several years ago. Was a great man.
@@Mommyandtux I mean... except all the purported kiddy diddling, I guess. Look it up - he was buddies with Epstein.
@@lekoman which means nothing by itself
I thought I was alone. All the comments talk about his brilliance…But I’ve watched several of his lectures and he just rambles, making little sense. Perhaps he was senile at this point, I don’t know. Seems like a nice guy though
@@lekoman the report says Epstein tried to convince Virginia to make a move on Minsky, but never found the opportunity to even make an attempt. There is no evidence that he diddles kiddies. There is only evidence from Virginia, stating that Epstein wished he did but failed. For a philosopher that actively diddles check out Searle, whose argument is computers can’t think and we certainly can never prove they do, which seemed to be his argument to his victims as well.
What computers don't have is cognitive thinking 🤔.... it c a n not comput a real human mind....
still can't grow hair on our head or cure depression.
Stop demanding start researching then
Artificial
3:52 he spontaneously morphs into Donald trump
how the hell did I get here
Somehow you were created like a monkey
I hate how all these questions are so interesting and all the people thinking about them take themselves so seriously while talking about things in the air, sounding like such snobs. I hope that this wandering leads to a more rigorous understanding. It makes me uncomfortable.
Keerthana Gurushankar Lol I was thinking the same thing💀😂😂😂
He has certainly made his mind up. Philosophy asks questions. He did not.
If that was the case he wouldn't be in MIT. He is not just asking questions he is also trying to find the solutions.
"slurp slurp slurp slurp the brain slurpslurp slurp is comparable to slurp slurp slurp the larger brain slurp slurp slurp if youre not a fish slurp slurpslurp bad combination slurp slurp slurp"
Ahaha
You so rude dude
only ppl with misophonia can appreciate this comment! I hear you brother!
Dude, when you’re his age you’ll be talking like that too sorry to say! Then someone will be making fun of YOU 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You are hilarious. I love Marvin
Human beings trying to be god will fail every time
He's an atheist
Which always confused me. The fact your admitting you don't believe in a god is saying it exists ... Just you don't believe in it. Why wouldn't he go with agnostic???
L
Wtf what a stupid thing to say
This guy needs to clear his hockers before he lectures.
Any other teachers on this ?? This guy is not the person to be teaching at all
He don't get what's the real, and huge, philosophical problem in the AI. Yet the old fool laughs about his own arrogance and stupidity. Philosophy isn't his field, yet he, -llike almost all the people-, thinks everybody who is able to think is a born philosopher. If you tell them they aren't they get ballistic.
Misophonia Alert
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Gen 1:1.
Evolution is such a fallacy with no observable examples. What a hopeless theory.
This guy is terrible. How did he get this position lecturing at MIT? He's shallow and speaks gibberish.
Cuz hes one of the earliest pioneers of AI
This is empty
Yeah I can't watch this guy anymore since he was a visitor of the Epstein island and named in the depositions.
Weird that no one asked yet here you are, like anyone cares
This is what passes for philosophy these days? No wonder society is so frail and shallow.
Mr Happy well atleast the world is at its most peaceful state in recorded history
this guy is a legendary scientist, not a philosopher, and this is clearly not a philosophy course, nor is it sold as such...
Do you notice a tendency at parties for people to leave the room when you enter?
Bible quote, Jesus said, "Money" is the root of all Evil"...and I believe $$$ buy politicians & tell you want to hear... and then don' do it. Except for the present ONE.
Care to give an example or are you just gonna bitch aimlessly
Lol what a delusional old man. He's definitely not as smart as people are pretending. He's not saying anything of value. This is more like a charity to make an old man feel important still.
Big man behind your keyboard
He was one of the best scientists of all time you whining child lol he's speeches and classes are kind of a waste of time true, but he never was a speaker or teacher to start with. But he is a legendary scientist and inventor. You can thank him for half the tech we have today!
Yikes, this lecture was terrible.
True!
@@sandvillage4162 and his work was?
No. You mean 6 thousand years ago. We haven't been around for no millions of years. Y'all lie soooo damn much smh
So intelligent... but believes in evolution ?? Strange how he can be so clever and a complete fool at the same time.
What do you believe in?
😂😂😂😂 oh the irony
oh dear.....
17:20 LIP SMAKING IS MAKING ME YARN!
11:51 LIP SMAKING
This is the issue with even high level professors on this topic, very long (bordering on rambling) lectures with no real determination of fact.
Well, this was kind of an informal treatise of the philosophy of mind relying on his popular book (the emotion machine). This was also done when he was 83, only a couple of years before he passed away. This was not a traditional class and he surely wasn't like what when he was younger but was very articulate and much to the point.