The Making of Warhammer | Fifth Edition: Harnessing the Heroes
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- čas přidán 27. 05. 2023
- Part four of the complete making of Warhammer Fantasy Battle - a series looking at the development and release of the greatest war game in tabletop history!
Warhammer Fantasy was at the top of it's game, so the 5th edition didn't need to be a revolution, it could just be a refinement. And that served WFB well, but the world around it was changing fast and soon even Warhammer would need to evolve.
Games Workshop would under go one of it's most traumatic releases with the failure of Gorkamorka, but critically acclaimed new releases like 40k 3rd edition and Mordheim would change the narrative. All the while the father of Warhammer, Rick Priestley, was wrapping up his time at the helm of his original creation.
Things were good for Warhammer Fantasy, but how much longer would it last?
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Links & Sources:
1 [Lead Advisory Service Australia / White Dwarf 206] lead.org.au/lasn/lasn014.html
2 [Armorcast]
www.belloflostsouls.net/2023/...
3 [There Will Be Games] therewillbe.games/articles-in...
4 [Mud & Blood 40k Interview with Rick Priestley]
podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast...
5 [John Wombat Interview with Rick Priestley]
johnwombat.wordpress.com/2020...
6 [White Dwarf 466]
7 [White Dwarf 202]
8 [Mira Manga Interview with Toumas Pirinen] • Let's Talk...Mordheim ...
9 [Mark Gibbons Reddit AMA] - / im_mark_gibbons_ask_me...
10 [Ropecon 2017 Toumas Pirinen Seminar]
• Ropecon 2016: Tuomas P...
11 [Ropecon 1996 Andy Chambers Q&A] • Ropecon 1996: Andy Cha...
12 [Give ‘Em Lead, Quest for Stillmania Interview] givemlead.blogspot.com/2016/07...
13 [White Dwarf 117]
14 [Citadel Journal 48]
15 [Goonhammer Gorkamorka] www.goonhammer.com/what-happe...
16 [John Wombat Interview with John Stallard] johnwombat.wordpress.com/2020...
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Personally the fluf is 85+% the reason why I bought all the army books I could even though I hardly played Warhammer ( outside of Warhammer FRP). I can confidently say that GW wouldn't have gotten any cash from me in my late 20s without these books.
Beautifully done! And I echo the sentiment in regards to Rick Priestley. The GOAT of Warhammer.
No doubt about it, he’s a living legend!
Outstanding. This really was the golden age of Warhammer.
We shall protect this man, at all costs.
And here is where I began the hobby, with the Saurus painting set followed by the Starter Box Set.
I was right there with you! I'm just now rebuilding what was once 5000+ points of lizardmen.
I never got to play Warhammer, but I really want to play 5th edition. I got the rule books and the Lizardman army book a year ago, and I just managed to convince my buddy to start the Dwarf army he's been thinking about for a few years. I may just get my wish.
I thought this channel was going to be Michael Jordan highlights, but this is good too
🤣
I'm sure Jordan talks about Magic too
@@benhayward2597 I see what you did there
Those cursed screw top paint pots! They dried out so quickly that among my gaming circle we had a conspiracy theory that it was a deliberate design flaw to get people to buy paints more often. In contrast (no pun intended) I still have some old hex pots & ever older citadel pots that still have some wet paints inside! I liked the fact that the different WFB armies tended to have a single sculptor primarily associated with each one. It gave each of the different factions their unique style and character.
These are just getting better and better, thank you for doing them.
I learnt loads here, I went to Uni in 96’, so pretty much missed all of 5th Ed, and lots of the goings on at the time.
Can’t wait for the next one.
Cheers Stu! It was such an interesting time in so many ways, even if it was probably the era when Warhammer was at its most 'stable' point!
Jordan my boy you are re-narrating my personal journey with WH that started 20 years ago. Thank you for this great content and keep at it!
My pleasure!
Dude, you’re my choice of content for foreseeable future. I’m actually choosing to watch your stuff over going to cinema. ❤
That's high praise, thank you!
I am really enjoying these. I started with Warhammer in about 83. A trip down gaming memory lane. Thanks!
Hey these are historical talks are great
Takes me back to my early teens back in the 90s and the great times discovering
Warhammer fantasy
Which to this day is still my favorite
Thanks heaps and keep it up!!
Absolutely loving this series!! Such a wonderful trip back to where I started, still have my 4th edition Empire army. thank you so much for this wonderful video!!!
Wow great content man 👏 that Jervis Johnson quote around the 28:50 mark absolutely NAILS it, he perfectly articulated the way I (and many others) feel about the direction the newer editions have taken (pretty much since the release of 8th Ed 40k and AOS)
Love it. This is the era I entered the game in about 1998/9. Perfect for a 10/11 year-old. Bright and bold, a bit cartoony. Well-defined enough to gorge into the lore, but simple and static enough black & white goodies and baddies. Mordhiem was the first 'new' release that came out after we'd become gamers and me and my mate loved it. Now, almost a quarter of a century later, despite living on other sides of the country, we're creating new warbands again as a 2023 challenge. Thanks for the trip down memory lane!
Mordheim is one of my favorites games they ever made and is the one I go back to play the most.
Just found this series today. It's incredible. Well done sire.
Thank you, glad you found it!
Oh man, Idol of Gork.. I'd forgotten that gem! That release got me collecting Orcs for a good few years in my youth ^^
I think it probably played a role in my Orc collecting career too, along with Lair of the Orc Lord!
Mark Gibbons was my favourite artist. His khorne terminator cover for white dwarf was legendary and now you can get a model of it from warhammer+ . My favourite pic of his has to be the bloodthirster though.
The diversity of art styles was awesome. The tone would shift and show the brutal and the amusing. Much more depth to it than bland eternal ‘grimdark’…
I jumped into 40k a few months ago and im still blown away with how complex it is. Then I realised it's even more interesting with the preceding Fantasy game. This series has scratched my love of history stuff and given me more perspective into the games themselves.
Welcome to the 🕸️ the spiders bight even if you don't ask. Lol
Welcome to the party, pal
My first edition of Warhammer Fantasy!
38:00 I’m not crying, you’re crying.
Fantastic work, Jordan! I started my journey with Warhammer 5th edition, when a friend brought a magazine from a nearby mall with the battle between Bretonnia and Lizarmen on the cover, and a display if beatufilly painted 'Eavy metal minis. Such a ride down memory lane, thanks!
Great video Jordan. 4th and 5th where my additions, sorely missed
I once played a campaign of mordhime with a friend playing as a bankrupt bloodblowl team, the blitzer refused to use weapons and the two throwers used only daggers and bombs
Another fantastic video. I know of the management style of GW from the discussions on the Painting Phase podcast/videos but never knew when it started, since they obviously weren't stuffy suits at the start. I hope more juicy backstage info is included in further episodes!
Thanks! I’m hoping to get under the surface of the next few editions too, though who knows what that will look like for the 8th edition!
Funny that you didn't mention the new regiment boxes that happened at the later part of 5th edition, about the same time that the chaos box was released. There were a chaos warrior box, empire soldier box, empire shooter box, orc boyz box, night goblin box, skaven clanrat box, and when the vampire counts book released a box of skeletons and a box of zombies were released with it.
These boxes had some metal parts in them to make a command group, and chaos warriors had metal halberds and empire shooters had metal crossbows/handguns iirc.
The boxes changed on an appearance when we moved to 6th edition, and metal parts were replaced with plastic command sprue, chaos warriors got plastic halberd sprue, and empire shooters box was discontinued completely and replaced with the militia box. And a lot more races got regiment boxes as 6th progressed, but that's a story for the next video.
Makes sense. Metal kits were tougher to work with than plastic, but plastic kits with metal upgrades? Nothing today is comparably terrible, not even FW resin. You need some washers or heavy coins like nickels to pull the center of gravity down from constantly tipping over.
Thank you for the great video, the 5th to 6th ed Fantasy Battles era is my absolute favourite, still collecting and painting miniatures from that era.
By the way, Ropecon comes from the Finnish word for roleplaying (roolipeli) abbreviated to "rope", the way you say it makes it sound like a BDSM gathering. :)
Thank you! I was worried I might have mispronounced it so I really should have done a little more research! I will try to get it sounding right next time I mention it!
@@jordansorcery No worries, totally logical for an English speaking person to pronounce it like that, it just sounded somewhat comical / pervy. ;) Finnish pronunciation is notoriously difficult, I don't think it's necessary to pronounce it like a Finn would, but something along the lines of "ro-pe con", so that the e at the end is pronounced as well. Not sure if that's helpful and it's not that important anyway.
Thank you for your great content!
The Stillmania articles are still THE gold standard of WD. I follow the principles to this day with army boxes made specially for my Age of Sigmar armies.
They were a wonderfully thoughtful approach to the hobby!
Seeing the Skinks in the starting box standing on my desk as I paint my Saurus Warriors made me feel something.
Wow! I've binge-watched all your vids over the last 2 days. Brilliant stuff, mate. Great scripts, thorough research, and top class, professional delivery and storytelling. It so refreshing to see a content creator solely rely on quality content, with no click-baiting or idiotic, half-witted, meme-riddled editing, with constantly interjected childish attempts at 'humour'. Keep it up, mate. Great recipe you have here.
Thank you! Really pleased you’ve been enjoying the videos, and I appreciate your kind words!
@@jordansorcery you're welcome, mate. Now give us the next WFB installment! 😂
I never played Fantasy Battle, but the comments about the players and the tournament seen really hit home. I've come back to 40k after a 25 odd year absence (viva la 2nd ed!) and started playing 10th edition. I've played quite a few games now and honestly, I don't find it that fun! It's obvious now that the game is built primarily for tournament play not 'fun' in the old school sense of the word. In my mind it plays much more like a video game than a true wargame (was 40k ever a true wargame? perhaps not). I miss the absolutely bonkers rules of 2nd edition where blowing a track of a tank could send it careening through your army killing everything in it's path, or snotlings appearing in a space marines armour from a Shokk Attack Gun. Now it's just roll hit roll save, move on. Yawn.
Absolutely loving this series, keep up the good work :)
My fav series. Thank you
Been fantastic to see this series continue, getting up to when I made my first jump into the hobby!
Certainly my favourite edition, keep it up Jordan 👏
5th Ed marks the end of my journey with WHVB. So much nostalgia but the price to play and player base dwindling hurt my teenage gaming. "bring a regiment" games to the local GW store were all well and good but never really hit the spot. It's great to hear the story played back and find out some new nuggets I never knew before. Looking forward to watching the 6ed and beyond as that whole process will be an education for me!
Anybody else hate Corporate Games Workshop? There's good reason why so many fans have nostalgia for the 90s GW.. it was work of passion. I wasn't aware of the behind the scenes, but thanks for clearing this up. It makes perfect sense actually.
Ahhh this episode covered the most nostalgic period for me. That high elf army book cover brings back memories!
My first Warhammer army ever, based on this armybook :)
Really enjoying your videos, you’ve opened my eyes to a lot of things I’d long forgotten. Bryan Ansell was my childhood hero!
Nopt gonna lie, With consistant upload schoulde, converting people from shorts to this content and this channel is gonna blow up.
thank you for continuing to do these wonderful videos, they are very enjoyable, although my favorite was warhammer quest and heroquest facts/history these making of warhammer are just so good!
I watch your amazing videos while I paint my 4th edition Dark Elves army. Thank you
I had a dark elves army in 4th edition, boy did I love those purple cloaked lads!
Chaos lord (5 attacks at strength 5, weapon skill 9)
Mark of Khorne (frenzy=10 attacks)
Hydra blade (each hit is D6 hits)
Reliable 30-40 hits per turn, oh and he's sitting on a dragon
Problemo?
This is the popular Herohammer complaint, but it's a bit of a myth for a few reasons. Your maths is wrong, 10 attacks hit on 3+ gives 6.6 hits, which the hydra blade turns to 23.3 hits not 30-40.
Hydra blade isn't that effective. Each attack must be allocated to a specific model before rolling. Any successful hits are replaced with D6 hits on that model only. It's not possible to kill more models than your number of attacks. So this chaos lord could kill no more than 10 goblins in a one round of combat.
Frenzy on characters has a special rule which makes it likely that their attack characteristic is permanently reduced after each round of combat (2d6 vs attacks). This chaos lord must roll 11 or 12 on 2d6 else suffer -1 attack for the remainder of the game. (Effectively -2 attacks due to frenzy).
Putting this character on a dragon only makes it worse. Way too many points in one model that can be tied up in combat with cheap infantry or by magical means. It also makes it easier to shoot at.
Wow these videos have been amazing thus far, eagerly awaiting the next episode!!!!
Thanks, really appreciate ir
I've been following this series and loving it. Got yourself a new sub. 😁 As someone working towards publishing tabletop games, I find the behind-the-scenes history and the design work fascinating. It's great to see the these games starting as almost ramshackle experiments that became gradually more polished and professional. makes me feel less self-conscious about my own work, tbh.
Great stuff! Now to explore the rest of your vids.
Thank you! Hope you enjoy the other videos on the channel too!
Loved this edition. This started my love of chaos and got my first Archaon. I now have every version of him. There was so many greats added this time you really should’ve touched a smidge on Nagash but great vid I’ve been looking forward to this but really can’t wait for 6th which imho is the best edition
5th edition is where I started, and it's always felt kind of weird, since people online are most vocally nostalgic for either 4th or 6th. My army of choice - Lizardmen - even got introduced in this edition then completely redesigned less than 4 years later into the models they've had for the last 23 years! I always find myself going "Yeah, I played back in the days of Oldhammer... nonono, OOOLDhamm- well no, not quite *_that_* old Oldhammer, but still fairly OLDhammer." lol.
I would love to see a video on the story of Gorkamorka 😊
One of these days!
Yay! @JordanSorcery knows who I am...! Woot!
Surely everyone must know you Mira - the best interviewer and book reviewer in the hobby!
20:00 100% Long live the Fluff..
And another amazing video, another comprehensive look at the next chapter in this very important game's history. I think this would have been right as I was dipping my feet Warhammer Fantasy Battles properly. I distinctly remember leaguing my unit of Chaos Warriors up with my friend's Skaven army in a gloriously futile battle with another friend's High Elves.
I still shudder at the term "bolt thrower".
I also remember Mordheim coming out and how excited everyone was about it, but for whatever reason I didn't get on board with it. I regret that now, it was probably more my speed...and more within my budget!
I miss my old elven repeater bolters!
@@jordansorcery I wish they'd missed my chaos warriors. 😁
Haha
Just finished the video, Jordan, and thank you. Wonderful way to start the day. I am very much looking forward to the Mordheim vid. Stay well!
Well done Patrons! Good vote!
Warhammer historical was basically invisible, not in store nor even in white dwarf.
I can see why they might not been keen on makeing a range of models but to not even market it?
This is my era.
Glad you were able to continue putting these videos out! It was worth the wait, great job!
I've been looking forward to this video! Fifth edition was when I first got into Warhammer, and a box of Lizardmen Saurus were my first very own models I painted.
Great job, as usual!
Very confusing video for me. Not because you haven’t made a good video, but because it’s very good and I (born in 1980) was at university from 1998 till 2003 and those were my non-gaming years. Thanks for this clarity!
Another excellent video, thanks for chronicling the design adventures of the grand daddy of all fantasy war games. Raise a pint to Mr. Priestly, he really is the best.
I can't believe you said the Thunderhawk Gunship costed 400 pounds.... it did not. It costed 40,000 pence.
These videos have been a great trip down memory lane. I was freelancing for GW when Fifth Edition was being worked on.
I need the in-depth Gorkamorka video. I had no idea that the game i remember fondly was such a production disaster.
Should also be mentioned that Battlefleet Gothic came out the same year as Mordheim, during this era, and they were pretty much the final two specialist games before GW tied the designers to the two core game systems exclusively for a long time. Seems hardly a coincidence the Mordheim and BFG are the two best rules systems GW ever released.
"...I remember carrying as many lead models as I could in my hands...then i don't remember much else." 🤣🤣🤣
I've got the plastic Mighty Fortress assembled, but unpainted.
I'd love to get my hands on the fortress at some point - it was always one of those big expensive boxes on the high shelf in the store and little Jordan Sorcery could only dream about being able to get one!
I really really hope you do this for 40k and I absolutely want the gorkamorka video
Another great video!
I remember feeling nonplussed by GW in the late 90’s… 1996 was a peak year, 1997 was still quite good and then things seemed to fall apart. There were several excellent releases from that point on, but they were all non-core games (like the terrific Epic 40k 3rd Edition, BFG and Mordheim). Yet 40k 3rd Edition felt like a huge leap in the wrong direction and even WFB 5e was shedding its bright and fun aesthetics for darker paint schemes and increasingly unbalanced, power-gamey army books. After 3e 40k came out, I started to follow GW less and less and when WFB 6e came out, that was the final straw. It's been a remarkable experience to witness the old mid-90’s GW games return to popularity in the last few years… I never thought I'd see that. Very grateful that I never sold my collection in the 25 years since turning away from GW. There is still nothing that company could do to earn my money, but who needs them anyway when the old games are still around?
Fantastic!
Long time ago I did a trial game in Amsterdam of the starter box. And I got demolished by a resident player. It was ruthless.
That's when I decided to seek another hobby.
So I get the sentiments here.
Ive been looking for this exact information, thanks for the great content!
My favourite old Cat man 😂😂😂 and human font of knowledge on all things fantasy 🔥 🔥 🔥
I've found Mordheim to be a whole lot of fun. My Beastmen crew is getting to the tail end of their adventures, and have so far had only two deaths.
But the next campaign will be the debut of my ratties.
My favorite edition (judging by core rules), even if l began to play just before end of 6th ed. But my gaming group plays it regularly. And what l like is limited possibility to deconstruct and reconstruct new basic unit types, or tweak existing ones (cost of stat modification and special rules). That allowed me to create a relatively fun, modified army books. Which some of my friends like and dislike. "It must be pure! No modification allowed!"
You take that back about those late 90s paint pot designs!
Me pausing the video and zooming in to make sure that gyrocopter is in the collection of Dwarven Gyros. Thank the ancestor gods i have it!
Those Bretonnian knights are still the core of my army.
Incredible videos🎉🎉🎉 I love your professional and detailed reviews of the games I loved as a child, while still bringing your excitement and love of WFB to the fore, igniting my nostalgia. High Elves (my fave), Dwarves and Undead were my armies and (thanks to your videos) are currently on my painting desk, getting some paint in preparation for Old World. Keep these videos coming friend, excellent work 👍
Thanks, I appreciate the kind words!
I miss those paints, not the screw tops, but things like Black Ork Green along with the others, I also remember having to carry my army around to get them to the tabletop when I had to cycle around with them on my left hand and steering with my right; great times and amazingly I never dropped them despite living in a village 😊
edit
I might have mentioned this before but I really miss Gorkamorka.😢
I also miss Kaptain Badrukk 😢😢
Great video as always! Loving this series. 5th edition was when I got into the hobby. I have a ton of nostalgia for this era and the 8 figure monopose kits were where I started. As a kid spending my pocket money, those £5 kits were a great way to get into the hobby. Pretty sure the Lizardmen Saurus and the Chaos Beastmen kits were my first ones
such a great video series
Thank you!
Estoy ansioso por ver el vídeo de 6th edition.
Such fantastic videos Jordan, and quite dangerous. I don’t really have any of my old models or old books, but this is making me want to get some!
You're telling me! The research for this series has nearly caused me to start 8 different armies in each different edition!
Really been enjoying this series. This was the set that got me into it. Haven't heard some of these names in years.
I'm glad you're enjoying it, thanks for watching!
So glad I found this channel. Great videos and such a chill presenting style
Great content mate. I remember the change over from lead and grabbing a vermin lord for only £5 . Its recently been in the dettol and ready for a new coat of paint after a few more regiments first .
Awesome series
Thank you
Fantastic content as always. I haven't seen anybody else on youtube create such an engaging and comprehensive overview of GW history.
Thanks Stevo, it's been an undertaking, but I've enjoyed pulling as much of it together as I can!
I appreciate that you can talk about the…profit centered business model and corporate culture of Workshop in an objective way. The more I understand about just how much GW cares about loot (most explicitly through the excellent “What Happened to Gorkamorka?” article) the more annoyed I get (though I love p much everything they make). So I admire how you can discuss it without adding your 2 pence. I would 😂
Amazig documentary and storytelliing Jordan! I love how you praise and give credit to the designers! They are true artists and now when I look back at my moments of nostalgia and re
Another great video - considered and informative, Great stuff Jordon! Thank you.
I worked in the Eastwood mould room during this period. I still remember when me and 3 guys had to melt down the old masters, and cut up the old master moulds. Sad times 😔
i think i have some forgeworld models around my boxes of ol minis somewhere, Grudge of Drong was the turn over of my simple dwarven army into a bunch of drunken rolling dwarven army...( which was a lot funnier to play) and to this day i'm still addicted to Stillmania styleof army, i never played to compete but for fun. At this time i'm building my first ever space marines chapter the way i like it.
Hey! Just wanted to say I've followed you for a bit now and you've very quickly jumped up to being one of my favourite Warhammer youtubers! Thanks for making such great videos! If you ever need any help with niche Warhammer knowledge I'd be happy to chat sometime as it's a great love of mine as well!
Thank you for watching, I'm really glad you are enjoying the videos!
Also yeah, Ropecon is an institution in Finland when it comes to all things nerdy. I went religiously for several years but haven’t been in maybe a decade or more. Maybe I’ll go this year, seeing as I’ve gotten back into miniatures, might try to pitch them a demo game of BattleTech or something.
Also yes, Finnish is difficult to pronounce. The word ”rope” comes from the Finnish ”roolipeli”, meaning ”RPG”. ”Ro” is pronounced like the ro in ”wrong” and ”pe” is pronounced as ”peh”.
I didn't do my due diligence on the pronunciation - will do better next time though!
@@jordansorcery absolutely do not worry about it! Don’t start learning Finnish, that way lies madness
Great show. Please do a piece on Necromunda and other spin off games.
Deadly Nightshade ❤
I still miss it
Wow! That explains why the books in 4th and 5th are packed with fluff, but the stories in the books in 6th are scarce. I still think the 90's books are the best in all GW history. Although I think I'd lean towards 6th edition rules for a game.
I must say that the reason why I quitted wargamming was the excesively competitive aproach of miniature games in the last years, there's no way to meet a person who just want to roll some dice while having a cold drink and talking about why those armies are our favourite.
Another winning video, thank you JS! Look forward to the Mordheim one!