Why I Quit Kung Fu-TMA (& Created EMA)
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- čas přidán 16. 07. 2024
- After nearly 20 years in the industry, this is my uncensored, honest, professional opinion about Kung Fu, as well as many other Traditional Martial Arts (TMA), and how they compare to MMA (Boxing, Muay Thai, Wrestling, BJJ) in terms of self-defense effectiveness, and also for all the other possible benefits you could hope to gain from martial arts training.
This talk is the result of years of experience, deep reflection, and heartfelt passion.
Enjoy, and please let me know your thoughts in the comments below!
- Patrick Fulop
Table of Contents
Preface - 0:00 -
My Story - 4:13 -
The Importance of Effectiveness - 14:20 -
What Makes a Martial Art Effective - 26:29 -
Why EMA - 42:29 -
Closing Thoughts - 49:57 -
Check out these great CZcams Martial Artists who also share similar experiences on their channels. These were all significant inspirations for me.
Rokas Leonavicius @MartialArtsJourney
/ martialartsjourney
His video about egos in TMA vs MMA: • Why MMA And BJJ Destro...
Ramsey Dewey @RamseyDewey
/ ramseydewey
One of the videos where he shares his story going from Taekwondo to MMA: • Ramsey Dewey and Marti...
Icy Mike @hard2hurt
/ hard2hurt
One of the videos where he shares his story going from TMA (Kuk Sool Won) to MMA: • Video thanks to @micahbrockofficial
Shane Fazen @fighttips
/ fighttips
His story going from TKD to MMA: • Video thanks to @micahbrockofficial
Ando Mierzwa @AndoMierzwa
/ andomierzwa
His video "Why I Quit Taekwondo": • Why I Quit Tae Kwon Do...
For examples of the WORST the martial arts industry has to offer, check out @McDojoLife / mcdojolife
2 more interesting, funny, and kind of sad videos about Fake Martial Arts:
The Bizarre World of Fake Martial Arts
• The Bizarre World of F...
by @supereyepatchwolf3007
Why Martial Arts Are Suddenly Being Exposed as Fake
• Why Martial Arts Are S...
by @Thoughty2
Our mission here at EMA is to help students of all levels improve faster through innovation, and that includes sharing information with honesty, candor, and respect about the best options for your martial arts education.
If this resonates with you, SUBSCRIBE to our Channel:
/ effectivemartialarts
And for a structured approach to your development as an Effective Martial Artist, check out our PLAYLISTS page:
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For more information about our school in Pointe-Claire (West Island of Montreal), Quebec, Canada, visit our website:
www.EffectiveMartialArts.com
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Follow-us on Facebook & Instagram for cool pictures, videos, and more:
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Created by Patrick Fulop (Instagram: @patrickfulop)
Practice well! 🙏
#TraditionalMartialArts #ModernMartialArts #KungFu
Thanks for the shout out and for sharing your journey. We can all learn from each other! 🙏🏻
Indeed we can! You’re a great example of cultivating the mindset and attitude of a true martial artist 🙏
- Patrick
@Ninja Thanks very much! Learn what you can while you can... then find new teachers. :)
@Ninja If being healthy and happy is strange, then keep being strange. :)
That feel when you are subscribed to all the shoutouts already xD
Awesome! Some great content on those channels, glad you’re following them as well!
I watched until the end and I really agree with the content. I trained & taught Kung Fu for many years. I was very dedicated until I realized that Kung Fu doesn’t work.
Now Im a professional Jiu Jitsu Fighter & love to train MMA on the side for his effectiveness.
Thanks for watching and commenting, Diana! Indeed, you are not alone, many people come from a TMA background and have transitioned as well. I think we’re only going to see more of that, and it’s a good thing.
- Patrick
I got here right after watching your interview to Rokas of Martial arts journey. You just got yourself a new subscriber along with appreciation and much respect.
Awesome, thank you!
Patrick fullop, thanks for the insight. You just made me love all the non fighting and fighting aspects of EMA
My pleasure, Abdulsamad! Just getting started, much more good stuff coming!
- Patrick
Very well said with respect. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for the comment, Alex!
- Patrick
I absolutely adore martial arts in general. They provided me with general fitness, health (physically and mentally) and most of all enjoyment. The only reason I’ve left certain schools/careers/ and teachers is usually due to a toxic environment and/or mindset.
Yeah... I didn’t even want to go there for the purposes of this talk, but I have experienced the same. Unfortunately, these dynamics can develop in any social hiearchy, martial arts or otherwise. Hope you’ve been able to pursue your training!
- Patrick
Thank you so much man for sharing your thoughts and your journey. Someone has to say these things, for the improvement of the martial arts industry and for the next generation of martial arts practitioners. Martial arts world is a very broad field to explore, and some who gets into it might get lost If not guided correctly or If they get confused about what their purpose is in practicing martial arts. Good thing we now have people like you who speaks about the TRUTH. 🙂 More power to you and your channel!
Thanks for the comment, Jacob! We still have lots of work to do 👍
- Patrick
Agree 100% agree
I have nearly 10 years of TMA experience but thankfully i realises the fact early halfway. I still join the group but i did my own DIY training at home in boxing n now with this chanek. So thank you Patrict.
Thanks for the comment, happy to help!
Cool ton channel Patrick, c'est le fun de découvrir ton channel EMA et que ça soit à Montreal!
Thanks, Phil! 🙏
Hey Patrick! Many years ago I spent over 10 years doing Wing Chun. I had started Gracie JJ in '94 (like I told you), but after 3yrs in WC I should've LEFT IT! OMG the waste of time techniques I practiced over and over ...... I'd do anything to have that time back.
Belle vidéo !! Plein de points soutenus et très bien expliqué 👏🏻👏🏻👌🏻
Merci beaucoup!
- Patrick
Patrick, you are different! You're not only a real martial arts master, innovator, explorer, you're also a philosopher! So great to see another martial artist with the philosophical inclusiveness and depth, after only to Bruce Lee!
That status could be well identified with the Buddhism idea of Zen! Well balanced status of combination of mind and body! The more your explore the optimal possibilitied of personal physics, the more calm and balanced your mind would be!
Just doing my best to come up with good solutions to pursue my passion, and help others along the way!
Thanks for your comment 🙏
- Patrick
Well done my friend. Really like the way you approach martial arts. Innovation is the key to the future. You have pointed out some of the things that also made me transition to more pressure testing martial arts. FYI, you might not remember, but am that guy who ripped his pants doing a high kick demonstration during a job interview at your academy 😅.
Haha… for sure I remember!
Hope you are well 😊
- Patrick
You explained pretty well the situation!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed the video!
I love this happy guy due to his honesty. Hats off 🎩
Thanks!
Good points made. Thanks for sharing your experiences. And, sounds honost and reasonable to separate professional athlets (full-time training) from "normal" part-time students.
Thanks for watching! Glad you like it :)
I spent a lot of time learning aikido, and have to come to this gentle conclusion. We all belong to an amazing family, which is the martial arts one. Hand to hand combat, and self defense have always been at the core of any giving style of martial arts, either explicitly or more subtly.
Martial arts are supposed to offer though their methodologies means to control an other human being either for sport or self defense applications.
After having listened for a while to Rokas, fight to hurt, and now you, I think it's also time for me to make my come out on my CZcams channel. Thank you for sharing your journey.
I believe TMA will continue to exist like Matt Thornton told me in one interview. As long as people need astrology, there will also be people for tma, I don't want people who believe in astrology to get offended by this quote. It's a way to say there is q place for everybody.
Interesting point, JSM. I would say martial arts are not quite like Astrology, because they deal in the real world, and although some claim esoteric powers, these are easily disproved as we've seen time and time again recently. I think TMA are more like bloodletting. It only works until you find out it doesn't... I think they will be relegated to the history books the same way.
Looking forward to hearing your story, please tag me when you do!
- Patrick
First I just wanna say great video! I had a similar experience where I was doing wing chun but then switched to MMA. I'm extremely curious about your belt system for MMA. What criteria do you use to determine advancement as well as what you do if say someone was an extremely skilled striker but their ground game isn't up to par? Do you keep them at the belt level that their lowest skill is at or do judge them based on their overall average?
Good question. To make it simple, at the lower levels, it's really just about basic fitness and knowledge of techniques. A bit higher it's about the student's actual ability to control a training partner. Similar to the ranking system in BJJ, but encompassing the other ranges as well. Some students obviously develop a preference and speciality, but they must be well-rounded to progress. Hope this helps!
Appreciate the shout out
My pleasure! Your work on CZcams and Instagram definitely deserves at least one full video. I’d be honored to feature you for a virtual interview 🙏
Effective Martial Arts anytime
Awesome. Pretty buried right now, but I will reach out and we’ll make it happen 👍
What's your opinion about Kuoshu Lei tai and sanda kung fu?
Hello EMA,
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience with us. I have watched your other videos with "Martial Arts Journey" as well and they are great.
I am curious about your opinion on Sanda/Sanshou. I understand some may not see it as a pure form of gung fu but regardless it is a martial art developed by the chinese military and it does have some aspects of traditional gung fu. For the most part it is mostly a modern martial art utilizing boxing, efficient kicks, even throws from Shuai Jiao.
Do you feel Sanda is effective? I personally found this is one of the only remaining forms of Gung Fu that is actually effective. It's specially very popular within the MMA community in China.
One could argue Muay Thai is still the better option since it is more widely available but I am curious on the direction of Sanda where is it going. There are some amazing fighters (Cung Li, Yi Long, etc) out there in the striking world that utilize Sanda it is quite interesting.
It would be great to hear your opinion on Sanda.
Thank you.
Thanks for the comment. Indeed Sanda is the most effective style of Kung Fu, but I don't feel it offers any concrete advantages over Muay Thai or Boxing.
Very recognisable.
Those are very well organized points made in the video! Have you ever travelled to Taiwan or China or any places like that and find out some real masters that teach what's at least is closer to authentic kung fu and thus can better represent what '' traditional martial arts '' really is? I appreciate your whole video, and like some other martial artists youtubers you've mentioned, you organized and expressed your thoughts and reasons on this topic really well while keeping a respectful attitude! ( unlike internet trollers XD ) However, what I noticed is that many people gave up tma and even concluded its ineffectiveness simply based on their disppointing experience of learning under a flawed teacher or through incomplete teaching method, or most common of all, their wrong purposes of learning certain tma styles. I don't know what you think about this, but I personally think a way that can do tma the justice it deserves is to dig deeper into the arts and judge their values based on the purposes they were originally created for, such as whether they work in the environments they are designed for, or whether some of the moves that are in reality designed for weapons are indeed useful in a weapon based combat or not, rather than concluding their ineffectiveness by testing their values in unarmed combat that they aren't designed for. Also, with all do respect, I can't bring myself to fully agree with those who use the incomplete tma they get in modern times to represent the idea of '' traditional martial arts '', since those might not all be the authentic arts that gained the reputation kung fu once owned in the past that is now gradually crumbling. Although I'm far from an expert of tma like you are, I've read how some richer people or government's forces in ancient China actually have what we might consider '' complete training method for martial arts '' that includes lots of physical conditioning and sparring. In fact, there have always been people on this planet training tma in a more intense and realistic way, and while I think many tma disagreers' unawareness towards those people's exsistence is understandable since they often keep a low profile or come from a completely different society, I still think people who say '' tma '' isn't useful for fights or doesn't do proper training or claims like '' chi is bullshit '' are too rash to reach their conclusion since there probably are still lots of things they haven't seen yet, due to the lack of understanding of the history of the arts and its practitioners that are partly caused by things such as language barriers or the lack of exposure to another culture's social and philosophical aspects. There have been tough masters such as those with tough builts, or those who litterally break bones in fights, and those greatest ones who '' mastered martial arts spiritually '' to the extent that it has become part of their character, enabling them to stand up against autocratic rulers or fighting for the poors in need.( that's far from those skinny or fat '' senseis '' with mustache XD ) I don't know enough about you, and perhaps you know more about the authentic tma and the society it comes from than I do. Either way, I'm still glad to see you being respectful as a martial artist and being able to move on to what you really enjoyed doing! However, if you haven't considered what I mentioned above before reaching your conclusions of tma, I highly recommend you to explore further into it whenever you want, just like how you reached the point where you are now, perhaps you'll discover some interesting things that will broaden you horizens! Last but not least, I hope you can provide some insights about the true tma that are still being practiced, not just those that do some spars but are inferior to '' modern styles '' in terms of combat effectiveness, but actually those extremely rare ones that offers different perspectives of combat in contrast to what modern styles have to offer( even those that actually have a legit idea of what chi really is that's based on traditional perspective instead of modern ones ), since while fair reviews of the flaws of tma are already given in videos like this one, the lack of mentioning of the real tma will mislead the world into believing in the idea that tma has never been useful, which is weird considering how it has served our ancestors for hundereds and thousands of years. The one-sided reviews of tma in recent years are REALLY leading to the complete disappear of these ancient practices, which is something some people in this world need to preserve in order to keep their identity or even honor their ancestors. I will be glad if people like you who have listeners are so kind as to contribute to the reconstruction of the acknowledgement of tma although it comes from another culture. That would be great!( sorry for making it insanely long😅 )
I stàrted around the time you did in 98 in Wing Chun and something similar to Hung Gar. I also trained briefly at a Praying Mantis and a modern wushu school. The conclusions I reached and my experiences were very similar to yours. I basically learned two kung fu systems and wanted to believe so badly that 15 years of training wasn't wasted. Once this pandemic is over, I'm getting back into kickboxing/MMA/self defense.
Great decision, Sim. I would encourage you to keep training on your own to develop your fitness and solo movements to be ready!
Thanks for the comment 🙏
- Patrick
Very nice video! I had a very different but very similar experience. I started with boxing (because I needed to defend myself) since my uncle and my grandfather did some boxing. It worked, but when I was a kid I believed it was too incomplete and inferior to Kung-fu for instance. When I grew up I tried to find a school of Kung fu or traditional martial art but needless to say I was very disappointed. I also experienced some cult-like environments. I was not so much affected because I am a physicist so for me energy is a physical quantity and coming from boxing I had the concept of non-cooperative, resisting opponents. Keep up with the good work!
Thanks, glad you like the video!
Hey! Could you do a video on how to defense or counter a pulling backward full rear naked choke turtorial? Thx!!!
Thank you for the suggestion, Enki! Here is the best one I’ve found so far online:
czcams.com/video/5aTLSOfTHTI/video.html
Enjoy!
- Patrick
Love this so much. Just found your channel by googling 'martial arts blocking techniques'. I really want to learn how to defend myself and others with skill and confidence. I usually just avoid fights, but I'm a security guard and that's sometimes not always an option. Thank you so much for these videos; I've checked out a few now. I'm interested in taking some kind of formal training lessons in my area, but these definitely help me get a clearer concept of self defense. Cheers!
Good job for starting to educate yourself on the subject of martial arts and self-defense, Kevin! And happy we could help. Thanks for the comment 🙏
- Patrick
@@EffectiveMartialArts Despite the message from this video, I am still interested in Wu Shu. I originally was looking for possibly Muay Thai lessons, but found some Wu Shu classes very near me that fits my work schedule. I've heard good things about the top instructor, Jinheng Li, and I can't wait to get started! I believe we should always strive to improve ourselves and to evolve into something better than we were before. Thanks !
@@kevinstachovak8842 If your goal is self-defense, don’t study Wu Shu. You’ll just develop bad habits and waste your time. Go do Muay Thai, Boxing, Wrestling and/or BJJ. If you just want to meet people, have fun, and move around, then sure, Wu Shu can give you that... but then again, so can a dance class.
We do also offer interactive training in Zoom, which can give you an excellent base: EffectiveMartialArts.com.
In any case, I hope you find something you’ll enjoy, and that will help you stay safe.
Practice well 😊
- Patrick
@@EffectiveMartialArts my real goal is indeed self defense, and let's be honest, boxing training is eminently valuable as I'm sure that most of all real-life attacks will take the form of someone trying to punch another person in the face. Wu Shu seems tradition-oriented, and another place near me teaches Krav Maga. What are your opinions on Krav Maga?
@@kevinstachovak8842 Exactly. Proper Boxing is essential, just make sure where you train they apply safety and don’t bash each-other in the head full-force in practice.
As for Krav Maga, it can be good, really depends on the school. To evaluate, look at these 3 criteria:
(1) Do they spar? If not, you won’t develop real skills.
(2) If they do practice sparring, are they able to do so safely? You don’t want to get injured.
(3) Do they drill against progressive resistance?
When they teach or practice, look at the OTHER GUY. If he is completely passive while the practitioner executes a complex series of moves, they don’t understand how fighting works and your development will be limited in that school.
And most of all, if they tell you some bullshit like “our techniques are too deadly to practice in sparring”... get the hell out of there.
Also, there has to be a good emphasis on fitness, but you can take care of that on your own if you are disciplined and motivated enough.
Hope this helps!
- Patrick
I have a similar story and situation tma has some benefits but is highly limited
Hey Bash, thanks for the comment, hope you’re training well! 🙏
- Patrick
Do you have a public document that shows the entire curriculum of your program? That would be nice.
Not currently, but we'll be working on it! Meantime, check out this overview of the white belt curriculum: czcams.com/video/9_fctyQ5f9w/video.html
Enjoy! :)
I'm sadly there now, I've been doing kung fu for many years now and it's not even the implementation of it. I was lucky enough to find a teacher who not only did kung fu but kickboxing as well, so I had no problems implementing it in combat. it was really the culture behind it. for some reason when you look into different styles, my teacher and the students would be very angry at me. not to mention we were close to the culture of NYC Chinatown and if you were not ass kissing or not born in it, the students there would be nothing but rude to me. I was never allowed to speak, never allowed to have a different opinion and it was becoming way too toxic. I was even called a traitor and a loser because I was thinking of moving outside of NYC. I spent many years helping my sifu run the school, help clean, and make sure everyone was safe and well taught but to constantly be disrespected like that was too much. and to be forced to only move how they move is like being forced to read only one book and be called a scholar. I'm not into martial arts to be in a circle jerk group, I'm not into it when a master treats a student like a servant, which my sifu didn't do but the group she would work in would. so I still have a love for art and philosophy. I just want to have the freedom to learn what I feel is best for me and expand my idea of what martial arts is. If I ever teach again I promise myself I'm not gonna be butt hurt when my student wants to learn a different style. I would say yes go read a different book, surpass me and if you have the time, please come back for tea and teach me. no ego, no self-righteousness, just love and passion towards the ways of martial arts. so I don't know what to do now, if I can make the money I would actually love to learn BJJ. but we shall see, the path is a crazy one but thankfully, an interesting one. maybe I'll try CZcams again or TikTok and make videos about me learning different styles. get my passion going again, get that feeling that kung fu used to give me. the passion of learning and expanding one selfs limits. thank you for reading my rant lmao.
Interesting video! There is a lot to say. For starters, what are your thoughts on Judo and japanese jiu jitsu? These are "traditional" martial arts with highly effective techniques. The olympic ruleset of Judo has issues, and sometimes the methodology of jiu jitsu is not ideal, but overall these two systems are quite good on the whole.
Also, I think that the belt idea is interesting, but if it is really about self defense, then a lot more needs to be done. An ideal self-defense program would include: firearms, long weapons (big stick), short weapons (knife), unarmed striking, wrestling, grappling, parkour, as well as situational awareness, mindset, and psychology training.
Yes most knife training is total nonsense, but doing something is always better than doing nothing which means that some counter-knife techniques will be less worse than others. What are the least-worst techniques to use when facing a knife? That is an important thing to consider for self-defense.
Additionally, I think that you are missing out on a more nuanced perspective of tma here. I don't think that the question is: can mma beat tma? (the answer is obvious), I think that the more interesting question is: are there tma techniques or principles that mma is missing out on? In the past, people would say that spinning back kicks and side kicks were no good, but nowadays it is pretty clear that they have a place. Even wristlocks play a minor role in bjj and judo, but we haven't seen much of it in mma for a number of reasons. My main point here is that I think that we should not dismiss a technique too easily. Yes, maybe some of these things are super-low percentage, but that does not mean that they have no place.
Also, when I see ineffectiveness in tma, I think that it is important to ask why it exists in the first place. Qi knockouts are total fiction, but how did this idea come to exist? Soldiers and martial artists in the past weren't stupid and many of them killed people firsthand, so why do laughably bad techniques exist in these systems? Take Wingchun's centerline theory as an example, I agree with you that wing chun punches are simply not damaging enough to really put someone down. In my personal opinion, centerline theory is primarily meant to be used while wielding butterfly dao. Twisting your hips to generate power is not nearly as important whenever you are holding an 18-inch blade in each hand. A quick, light stab with a sharp tip can easily be lethal. In addition to this, even modern weapon sports like kendo and fencing are very concerned with occupying the center. Personally, I practice traditional martial arts because I love history and it is a lot of fun! My own channel and research is about really diving into the historical context of tma, and I feel that this is necessary if we actually want to understand what we see in tma nowadays. I would also argue that using a more historically informed lens to view tma is more likely to yield something applicable to modern EMA than simply examining on living tma schools alone because to put it simply most of them do not know their own history, and myths predominate their narratives.
Thanks for the comment. I think the main reason we see so much ineffectiveness in TMA is because of the telephone game, as well as the emphasis on preserving tradition-which is actually behavioral inertia. Generations of practitioners didn't dare rediscover effectiveness, which over time amplified mistakes in techniques, concepts, as well as practice methodologies. We could try to salvage what's left, but in my opinion, our time is much better invested in learning and perfecting what works. Hope this helps 🙏
- Patrick
Merci pour le partage. Je suis tout à fait d'accord sur ta vision des choses.
Pour ma part j ai touché un peu au kung fu, taekwondo, viet vodao pendant ma jeune adolescence.
Vers 17 ans je me suis mis à la capoeira. A cette époque ce qui m'attirait et m'intéressait c'était le coté spectaculaire, maitrise du corps, prouesse athlétique etc....j ai fait et donné cours de capoeira une grosse dizaine d années.
Apres quelques blessures , le corps vieillissant et les envies changeantes.
Je me suis mis au krav maga en 2012. Suis passé instructeur fin 2016.
Comme tu as dit en krav ( même si c en train de changer) ça manquait de contact ou de réelles oppositions.
Aujourd'hui j'aime être un généraliste je pratique tjs le krav maga mais aussi la boxe thai , le jjb et le mma.
Plus une reprise de capoeira ( pour l l'aspect mobilité, coordination, ryhtme) avec ma fille de 4 ans.
Dans chaque art martial il y a quelque chose à prendre mais c'est sur que certains sont plus complets et réalistes que d autres.
Pour finir. Il faut analyser, s'adapter et évoluer c'est la seule façon de "survivre".
C'est ce qu on retrouve d ailleurs dans l'évolution et la survie de chaque espèces
Merci de partager ton histoire également, Chris. En effet, l’important c’est de toujours continuer à apprendre et évoluer!
- Patrick
I have trained Kung Fu formally about 10 years, have since trained Krav Maga and then MMA, all the while still solo training Kung Fu here and thereand tesring it in sparring against many types of opponents. My prefered style is MMA with a touch of Kung Fu, particular in regards to kicks... but I also enjoy pressure testing animal styles, although you gotta be careful to avoid eye pokes... I think Kung Fu is imperfect, but the biggest thing is in my view that it is rarely trained with pressure testing (vs other styles) and conditioning for combat. Since 2012 when you saw no examples of Kung Fu working in MMA, there has started to be (still few, but) more and more fighters with Kung Fu backgrounds making use of the kicks and elbows from Kung Fu (not much hand strikes, though Tony Ferguson has implemented Wing Chun/JKD like trapping), examples are Folayang, Muslim “King of Kung Fu” Salikhov, MVP, Zabit and some lesser known outside UFC/Bellator. Wheb you see fighters like Adesanya it’s clear that stuff like that can work, but not without some boxing and grappling basics and more importantly realistic training methods/sparring etc
Thanks for the comment, Michael. Indeed, I am well aware of the different Kung Fu techniques and concepts being utilized with success in MMA. I do use many of these myself such as some trapping, front leg side kicks or hook kicks, as well as some innovations such as trapping with hands vs feet when passing the guard of a supine opponent. It is somewhat of a leap in logic though to think that studying TMA exclusively for any length of time is worthwhile, just because some fighters have a background in these arts or have been able to pull off some moves. The truth is most of us started in TMA because there wasn’t much else available 20 years ago... Maybe these fighters are not successful because of their TMA background, but in spite of it. Maybe they would have been better if they had been practicing MMA from the start. In any case, I think we will see more varied techniques employed in MMA, and the concepts that do work from TMA will live on... The rigid traditional styles though, along with inadequate practice methodologies, will not.
Thanks again for your input, and keep up the good work!
- Patrick
My background is over 10 years in Kung Fu (7 Star Mantis, Ba Ji Quan, Long Fist, Wing Chun, Pi Qua, a little JKD). I started training Boxing and Muay Thai on my own and I'm starting to learn just how effective modern martial arts are :) There are specific techniques (breathing exercises, conditioning for shins, moral aspects, specific techniques) that actually can work if I train them. But I agree with you so so hard that effectiveness is lacking in Kung Fu
Amen! lol
- Patrick
How could Chinese martial arts, or whatever ones have survived till now just be so useless today? What happened? It wouldn’t make sense that they were always this useless because China had to fight wars.
I was most interested in the part about martial arts philosophy and attitude. I have witnessed first hand your point about true humility and confidence being more common in MMA. That’s indeed the result of being pressure tested. But I’ve also felt certain MMA gyms being a little too “casual” about the art of fighting, perhaps as a result doing away with all rituals. I notice that you still train with a uniform inspired by Kung Fu for example. I assume that’s because you believe there’s a psychological benefit of students differentiating a dojo from a gym. So my question is: how do you think about integrating traditional philosophy and rituals (such as a uniform, pledge, etc.) in a school teaching a modern MMA curriculum?
Excellent question, Sacha. Indeed, I agree that some MMA gyms are a bit too casual, and some fighters don’t quite behave like martial artists... But I don’t think there is any correlation between the techniques or practice methodology and the behavior of the students; it’s more about the culture of gym/school, as well as the individual’s personality and experience. Personally, I have chosen somewhat of a hybrid approach, with uniforms and minimal rituals (bowing in-out) to promote discipline, a belt system to help students and instructors keep track of progression, and some character education to emphasize the importance of respect and responsability as we grow our skills. In my experience though, “philosophy” can often be over-complicated, and even exploited by teachers to create somewhat of a cultish environment. I plan to explore this in an upcoming video.
Thanks for the comment! 🙏
- Patrick
So I am also living in Montreal.
I am currently enrolled in a wing chun school. I'm not running into any of the problems you had. If anything my school is taking a modern approach to wing chun.
Which school did you go to if you don't mind telling ?
That's great, I think innovation is key regardless of the style practiced. All I'll say is that is was a Vietnamese branch of Wing Chun. Hope this helps.
This video nailed it. I have trained in karate for thirteen years but recently switched to BJJ. I did so after watching videos from Martial Arts Journey, Jocko Willink and Joe Rogan. My motivation for taking up martial arts was to gain self-confidence. I came to Australia from Hong Kong in the late 1960s. I was the only Asian at my school and was bullied. My self confidence took a hit and I don't think it's ever fully recovered. I took up karate to try rectifying this. Karate has helped me to a certain extent and I'm proud of the skills I gained. It still, however, didn't provide me with what I was looking for. I got the idea, from the above-mentioned CZcams channels, that BJJ is genuinely effective martial art. My brief experience with BJJ so far has done nothing to dispel this belief. Patrick's comment at 24:33 about confidence derived from safe and intelligent practise is what I've been searching for. There is sparring in karate but, to use Bruce Lee's words, it's a glorified game of tag (with no real benefits for actual fighting). I also agree with Patrick's comment at 36:27 about kata. Katas are great exercise and fun but provides no benefit for an actual fight. This is unless the "bunkai" (i.e. application) is studied and applied. It's very hard to "pressure test" bunkai without hurting your training partner.
Thank you Patrick for your generosity in providing your thoughts.
Thanks for sharing your experience! :)
*I liked your video a lot very interesting info. When i was younger i used to train in tae kwon do. The only thing you can use are the kicks not all of them some are to fancy to use in a real fight. Then i got into mma i had to learn how to box and tried it i found it interesting and i totally agree with having knowledge of boxing kicking and grappling. But i still like to use my kicks from tae kwon do. The mma school i go to dont have a color belt system. I see yours do i see some traditional in that when having color belt system in the martial art. I see in the 50 years from now mma will be the only martial availabe but i believe some of the techniques from the traditional arts can be use for some not all😀 *
Thanks for the comment, Luis. Indeed, I think many techniques from TMA will live on through MMA-based training, which will become the norm. And you are right, belt systems are more common in traditional styles, although this one is only a few years old, and constantly evolving. I think it is useful to help students keep track of their progress.
Thanks again for your input, and keep on training!
- Patrick
Great and honest exploration and exposition! An martial arts practitioner and theoriest, second only to Bruce Lee!
Most of the traditional Martial Arts are not optimally effective for a hand-hand fight defined today - IT might be more practical in its ancient times. Back then when most of the traditional arts were originated, martial arts were secretively or officially practiced for life-or-death defence or offense purposes. It means pure hsnd-hand combat principles and skills hadn't been explored exhaustedly. Most of their attention were put into cold weapon operations - that's life and death issue. For example, Wing Chun was said a defence and performance system by the boat opera performers. So, you could see why they train your feet and legs stances in a weired way - not only sub-optimal, it sometimes means impairment to your fighting on land. Once you imagine you're on boat or rows of boats, yes, that's it!
Thanks for the comment, OM MO!
Effective Martial Arts Hehe! So nice to have your response! I watched yours for a couple of years, and I believe you're the one who are the most honest and inclusive and insightful explorer of how far and how best modern Martial Arts could go (here we mean hand-hand combat at today's ambience - life -death issue no longer the top priority).
I am afraid that you need to practice martial arts for quite some time to understand all this. At least for me. I have spent 10+ years practicing aikido and now I can agree with Patrick 100%. This video is a good place to start with martial arts. But even knowing all this, so many MMA schools still forget to provide a safe practicing environment with progressive resistance their to students and focusing only on skill set (rules). The same is happening now during the corona-virus lockdown when one can get a complete list of techniques online for free, but it is worthless since you are not able to practice it with a competent partner and/or in a dojo. Partick, really good job.
Thanks for the comment, Cene! And glad you agree. Best of luck with our martial arts training 😊
- Patrick
I see kung fu more as a supplement to an already varied diet. You gotta know how to fight before you learn kung fu. Because it rarely develops speed, timing, power, and distance understanding for real world scenarios.
I have also taken the progressive resistance thought into account and I teach the pipeline of good gong fu. Here meaning technique. The pipeline goes as follows: solo practice (forms), compliant partner practice, mixup practice with multiple techniques for reaction training. Then going into directed sparring where a certain amount of techniques are used to really develop those techniques in particular. Then moving into free sparring with increasing resistance to understand when to do the techniques. The last level which is not for everyone is applying the techniques in a full contact fight. When you can consistently apply your techniques under such a level of stress that's when I would say you have mastered a technique.
For a modern hand-hand combat situation, I believe most of the oriental traditional martial arts especially those from East Asia, have a common lethal shortcoming: the stifled and suboptimally effective stance and footwork! Look at them, rooting their own feet at ground stagnantly! That goes against the basic principle of modern hand-hand combat! Why they missed that? Deliberately make the students inferior to the master? Or the master doesn't know it either? Mostly the latter! Why? In ancient situation, their body training is a preparation for cold weapon use perhaps with heavy armor on! So, don't blindly follow the so-called ancient stuff!
Very good point, thanks for the comment!
- Patrick
Very well said! Thanks for the comment 🙏
Hi, With the respect to all styles, your honest and sincere words are appreciated. Thank you.
My pleasure, Will!
Thanks for the comment 🙏
- Patrick
I agree that you must know what you want, when you are in a dojo!
How much is school. You are very sincerr
Thanks! We have a few membership options which range from only $150 to $200 CAD/month. Check out www.EffectiveMartialArts.com for more info! 🙏
- Patrick
Still going to see traditional martial arts used in mma in the future
Some techniques here and there, sure... But fighters exclusively trained in TMA, certainly not.
Respect to your personal experience, but Gongfu as a whole is very vast and varied in styles and systems. The biggest issue with it is that there's no standard in terms of quality, so some schools are McDojo level, but at the same time, some gongfu teachers have a very practical and effective approach (for both street and ring fighting).
Case in point, teachers like Wai Hong back in the day, who's Fu Jow Pai system trained amazing kickboxers like Paul Vizzio; or Zhong Luo, who teaches Bak Mei, Long Ying and Mongolian Wrestling, and also runs a major MMA academy in the Bay area (Dragonhouse MMA). Other examples include William C.C. Chen and his son Max who used his style in Sanda and Muay Thai arenas. Yet another example is Sifu Robert McInnes, who has trained some of the greatest kickboxers in the modern era (Peter Aerts, Sokmongol). Robert has a vast knowledge of both Muay Thai and Gongfu, but the core foundation of his system is Shaolin Gongfu and Shorinji Kempo (rooted in Shaolin).
Thanks for the comment, and indeed, you make a good point. I think what's key is to always remain open minded and apply innovation in the training methods. Unfortunately that is usually not the case in the more traditional styles...
@@EffectiveMartialArts ah okay so here, I think I get it, for those who know real kung fu, go ahead and do it, but for the masses which you make this video for, the most honest helpful advice you can give in your hour is “in my personal experience and with critical thinking from a westener background, just do what you see in the octagon”.
I know I’m a little late but I still hope u respond brother,In my belief any martial art can work if it has these 8 things,number 1 is pressure testing Bc it exposes the fake,and brings u to reality,seeing which moves really work,2 is live resistance so u can get use to what reality feels like Bc everything will never go pretty 3 is drilling so u can do and remember those moves without even thinking it’s a automatic reaction,4 is practical sparring,5 is conditioning aka fitness to keep your body in shape 6 is to know your martial art,like wat is it about wats the history of it what’s there main focus 7 is to practice defending against realistic attacks out on the street,train realistic and last and final is 8 adapt to your style,explore other martial arts you know one of the things that I hate is saying traditional martial arts Bc a art is not suppose to stay traditional it’s suppose to evolve,you know u look at boxing in the 1880s and you look at it now it’s VERY different it’s evolved,so I think that’s one of the problems that TMA has,they hang on to the roots but not giving those roots and purpose which is to grow a tree,give life,let your art grow,keep what’s functional take away what’s impractical,just don’t change your art so much that u can’t see it,like boxing you still wanna focus on punching but if u wanna add a takedown defense in your gym then do it evolve it make it better,I always say that if a art dosnt work by itself then adapt to make it better,but if a art does work by itself than adapt to make it more advanced
I did Kung Fu for around 1 year 1/2, it was pretty fun and it worth practicing if you looking for a hobby. However, if you looking for self-defence, most techniques are not applicable. Most fight finish on the ground. If you pay attention to professional fighters, you will notice that they have different range of fighting (Boxing, Muay Thai, Jitjustu and Wrestling). We live in a world that keep involving and the arts of fighting does too. People have access online to increase their level of self-defence. So if you looking for self-defence, Kung Fu is not enough.
We can’t argue with what people enjoy as hobbies, but in my experience, there is nothing as FUN as good quality, safe, and realistic hand-to-hand combat practice blending all the ranges of fighting!
Thanks for the comment, Seb 🙏
- Patrick
I have been practicing Hapkido for sixteen years,I have seen many of my classmates getting disappointed from it!
❤️❤️❤️
🙏🙏🙏
I come from a Hung Gar background but I have slowly transitioned to mixed martial arts.
We've had this problem in mma for a while...people would take muay thai and bjj but didn't know anything about wrestling and footwork and all these others did boxing and wrestling and didn't know anything about kicks and submissions and nobody thought of putting it all together until someone with a kung fu background had an idea...
I know! So surprised nobody thought of this already... better late than never!
Thanks for the comment, Ari 🙏
- Patrick
With this in mind, it would be interesting to hear your “pros”/ good things you’ve learned in Kung fu
In all honnesty, practically nothing. I don't believe there is anything I couldn't have learned elsewhere. But iff I'm being very generouns: (1) some aspects of sensitivity training with sticky hands are useful in grip fighting, and (2) hitting the bag bare knuckles. Hope this helps!
- Patrick
At least you learned earlier than some tma guys. Glad you got some take aways. I heard, but don't quote me on this, that wing chun can be pretty helpful for clinching, but I wouldn't know.
@@delanchan699 Kinda. Sensitivity and joint suppleness can help you maneuver the clinch, but you have to know how to fight in the clinch FIRST. Collar ties, arm drags, elbow strikes, takedowns, as well as dirty boxing punches are not things that were taught in my particular study of Wing Chun.
I haven't trained in Kung-Fu, but in Japanese TMA and all TMA styles I came in contact with where heavily based on weapon use.
I have seen people teach weapon techniques as unarmed techniques without knowing that they are based on weapon use quite often.
MMA is close to optimal for pure unarmed fighting.
Edit: I watches most of the video now. You studied wing-tsun, which is a style base on dual butterfly knifes and long staff. It's not as good as most people think as an unarmed style, but it is a highly competent weapon style.
Meh... in the school I trained in, we did lots of weapons forms, but not much weapons sparring. For that reason, I wouldn't say it's very effective for weapons either.
@@EffectiveMartialArts Depends on who is teaching it and how you are training. Butterfly knifes can fight HEMA Longsword on equal footing.
background:
karate shotokan
Brazilian jiu-jitsu
Muay Thai
and hope to see you collab with other martial artist
Thanks!
I think traditional martial arts still has values, but it's up to the practitioner to keep it up-to-date with today's reality. With very little effort or change, any traditional style can become more effective.
Where is this school located
Pointe-Claire, Quebec, Canada!
www.EffectiveMartialArts.com
:)
I practice JKD and we emphasize what is effective in real life situations. We train conditioning to achieve more skills like a mma gym. And I like your channel.
That’s great! Regardless of our style or background, I think it’s important to remain flexible, keep learning, and keep improving our methods to help our students better.
Thanks for the comment 🙏
- Patrick
I totally agreed with you. Anyone who have trained in any martial art ( I am taekwondo trained) would know that most TMA (including Chinese Kung Fu) focus mainly on pattern (ie Kata in karate and Poomsae in taekwondo). The sparring sessions are sports oriented and are for scoring points and winning the competition. They are not designed for real combat and definitely not for self defence. Nonetheless, it doesn't mean we should not learn and practice these "impractical martial arts". Most people like myself, join these classes more for the interaction with others and treat it more like a social club. It is not for serious business and definitely not to become a fighter.
That makes sense if you like the people at your club. But my opinion is that you can make friends anywhere, and if you're going to train a martial art, it might as well be effective.
@@EffectiveMartialArts I find this depressing as a Chinese Canadian and honestly going against all logic. For a culture that literally has martial arts as one of our pillars, a history where obviously fighting was a necessary skill (yep in fact especially for the Shaolin monks, bandits are no joke, and neither is being an institution where martial discussion across a society takes place). I never actually believed in whatever the movies were shilling or any of the typical TMA schools. The first time I watched the Ip Man movies I was getting second hand embarrassment (I ended up watching the rest of the franchise but that was just to make me feel better as I was researching Kung Fu more since I started on Sanda and Boxing), that only got even worse when I found out about the actual life of Ip Man.
I always thought the movies etc. Were just flowery nonsense. But I still hesitated when people made fun of TMA, it is because I’m a history nerd, not another dumb Normie.
And the modern reality of TMA does not necessarily match with history. Unless of course, just after all the suppression including communist cultural erasure, sportification, commercialization, and promoting of the modern performance arts. Kung Fu really has died. I disagree that it’s just “respect your teacher” which led to everything becoming so awful, but I’ve just given another explanation of the same conclusion, “Whatever TMA you do, at the end, doesn’t work today. Do what they’re doing in the Octagon, don’t give me this apologetics nonsense (because oh for fun, some techniques work, for exercise, for the healthy, is all apologetics, because then it isn’t about fighting and you can get better at the functioning martial arts, unless you really openly just want to look cool)”
Ugh, there is one guy though I’d ask you to check out. Adam Chan, Wing Chun instructor, Vancouver. Has a youtube channel, Kung Fu Report. If you have the time and don’t mind, I think could be interesting as you have a WC background.
Re: make friends anywhere.
Rather make friends with martial artists.
I believe that not all traditional martial arts are ineffective. Traditional martial arts can be made effective if pressure testing against live resisting opponents is incorporated. Great examples of this would be Kyokushin Karate, Judo or Shuai Jiao which is a wrestling style of Kung Fu.
When we talk about kung fu, it's quite wide range of definition. Which kung fu by you mean cause There are thousand of styles. Wrestling , Locking , Throwing , Ground grappling , CQC combat etc. basicly all that we have now, they already own it . Saying kung fu is not work that makes no sense to me cause they went through the wars countless of time too. And in the ancient time kung fu fighters are always a good rival to mauythai fighters too, some old school mauythai style even adopt there techniques into there style . There are no useless martial arts in South-east asia , China , Japan but useless practitioner are real. Before you criticize the style you need to understand their nation like people say Aikido is not work cause they don't understand the original concept and the way that japanese think . the goal is not everything but along the way is matter .
isnt it good mma is now popular enough people can actually start a gym like you have done . i feel lucky for the kids that live in your neighbourhood. you are doing something good for your comunity
Thanks! We do what we can :)
Now as an instructor,I try hard to not repeat the mistakes of my teachers!
What do you mean?
Someone at my gym was telling me that TMA looks awesome and is great for general athleticism, hence why it's often involved in XMA (Extreme Martial Arts, which is more or less a modern mix of of combat acting, parkour, freerunning, and of course, stunt work). It looks absolutely stunning, but isn't really great for a fight. Basically TMA is less martial, more art.
Good observation. In my opinion though, you can focus more on the demonstrative aspect while still practicing functional, modern combat methodologies.
Just had another thought ...most people don't really train their nervous system...not the sympathetic but the parasympathetic where everything synchronous and contiguous at once which means you have to iron out all the kinks in your motion...relax harder !
Bro, big props for evolving into real shit. My critique is the belt system, it leads to the same crap you escaped from. Belts and designations are not congruent with advancing into effective fighting. MMA is great because you develop into certain skills and technique that make you most effective for your fighting style. Introducing belts doesn’t help that or promote a mindset to constantly improve. Chasing belts is chasing belts.
I get your point, but respectfully disagree. A belt system can become perverted, especially when schools dilute the criteria to make more money and keep students longer, but if done well, it provides a helpful tool to track progress and increase motivation. Kind of like rank in the Army, academic degrees, or financial metrics of success in business. The key is to reliably and objectively reward effort and skills, not just attendance or memorization.
Wouldn’t you agree?
- Patrick
What do you think of lethwei?
Lethwei is very similar to Muay Thai, minus the gloves, and with the addition of head butting. Very effective striking and clinching art, but somewhat dangerous for fighters due to the KO only rule for winning, and absence of doctor stoppages. It is evolving now though to prioritize fighter safety.
Hope this helps!
- Patrick
Just recently became aware of it, seems like head buts really change up clinch fighting
Indeed, even minor rule changes always have significant incidences on how fights go down. Was thinking of exploring sparring with (controled) groin strikes pretty soon...
Are you German? If yes do you know if there are regulations to open a mma gym?
I think he is German! 🤔
Proud Canadian. And no, there are no regulations to open any kind of martial arts school. The market will dictate if it works or not, and the public is becoming much more educated. My hopes was to contribute to that in this talk. Thanks for the comment!
- Patrick
I have the strong suspicion that TMA do not work since then but continue to train just for the health and the friendship; i do feel sorry for the teachers who really believe it will work in a real situation but keeping quiet is the best option..
I think the truth needs to be spoken aloud, and the field needs to evolve.
@@EffectiveMartialArts indeed. i thought i will never find a style which would be similar with what i have in mind until i found EMA. Thank you for that.
Its quite interesting see your opinion about Kung Fu. I don't blame you if you disappointed with what your learned previously.
I need to inform you that many Kung fu School only teach for commercial purpose and some of their teacher are not capable enough or hiding their knowledge.
Kung fu used to be martial arts for killing that's why many secret technique were hidden and only teach to certain student.
You need to learn from right teacher and especially internal style. It is not easy and no short cut/instant. If you learn correctly and from the teacher who willingly to teach you the secret then you will enjoy physically and spiritually, and last long until you're old.
But if you want to have instant solution martial arts then you can go to MMA, BJJ, but again all of them are external martial arts. Later in certain point/stage you will feel empty or no motivation anymore.
Regarding fighting, every style need to be have special session to do the pressure test so they will be familiar with real fighting. If you never facing/practice in real fight regularly then it will be useless. It's not meaning that you're style is ineffective. Maybe those person not learn correctly or not understand well the style, and just blame the style not effective.
Yeah... I haven't seen anyone demonstrate Kung Fu's effectiveness in modern times. If you have video evidence to the contrary, please share.
Well, I would personally love it, if somebody, just one person, any freaking body, can just take these secrets and show them off in the Octagon then all of you can go back to your secretive daoist cultivation longevity lifestyles, can you prove your stuff works first!? Heck, I’m going from HK back to New York soon, if you know a New York Sifu/Shi Niang I’d love to contact them!
Kung lee: it was good in UFC: I think it is the way of adapting, and that many part of practitioners love learning like it was a rule in laws that never change!
But There are some good teachers looking for tools in others martial arte.
It was the way each Every art martial had their origin in mix others older martial arte.
Cung Le was a competitive San Shou practitioner. He always had great boxing and kicking with very fast throws. He did do kung fu but his fighting comes from San Shou which isn't traditional.
I first watched this video
Thanks for watching!
- Patrick
Kali - the premier armed martial art, and also the best martial art for escaping holds (while standing).
Only less than 30% of assaults in the U.S. are armed - 70% will be with weapons. MMA is likely the best to survive the 30%, but it's just as good to be prepared for the rest! 😉
Goind point, indeed MMA training needs to be supplemented with weapons practicce, situational awareness, as well as de-escalation techniques for self-defense purposes, but I do think the body movements, principles, and practice methodology is largely the same when we introduce weapons. Planning to cover weapons sparring eventually!
Thanks for the comment 🙏
- Patrick
@@EffectiveMartialArts The movements and principles don't really carry over - most unarmed movements are actually detrimental to weapons. Easy examples: an orthodox stance is an extreme disadvantage in stick fighting, and Muay Thai and Kyokushin footwork and stances, as well as Muay Thai and wrestling clinches and tie-ups,, even leg takedowns, will make you easier to kill than an untrained person if you instinctively do them on knife-wielding opponents, HOWEVER,
Combat sports methodology is superior even to traditional weapon-based arts like HEMA and Eskrima. Trust me when I tell you there's a lot of BS involved and that adopting a no-frills combat sports approach without adding in any rules is better.
If you don't have access to certain styles of Filipino Martial Arts, namely Dekiti, Pekiti, and Ilustrisimo, you're really better off just buying yourself some padded sticks, helmets, pads, and applying the wit and experience you got from combat sports and creating your own style.
Cheers! 🙂
when you say kung fu which style do you mean?
I for one am of the opinion that some** styles of kung fu are extremely effective
egs: choi li fut, wing chun, hung gar, hop gar, bajiquan
let me site other egs that definitely are similar to kung fu but are non traditional and are effective- 52 blocks and keysi system .
i can explain my views better practically is there some way to do that?
my only problem is grappling but when it comes to striking i know the styles i mentioned can stand up to anything atall
You are entitled to your opinion, but I respectfully disagree, for the same reasons detailed in this talk. Do you have any video evidence to prove the superiority of the aformentioned arts against trained fighters?
yes, i do, i can demonstrate those moves. but is there some way to do that?
thats a misstatement you say everyone is entitled to their opinion then there would be no objective truth and your explaining your view woukd be useless,
ps i dont mean to be antagonistic...
but yes i can proove myself
please let me know how we can work this out..
one more point it was the father of mma bruce lee who said that choi li fut was the only art he came across tht could beat muay thai
Where you particularly shine is on the top of your head Patbou! 🤣
Très intéressant ton vidéo. Tu me donne le goût d'aller faire un tour à ton école.
Tu n'as pas parlé de l'aspect sectaire des écoles traditionnelles, sûrement délibérément. Pour moi c'était la raison principale pour laquelle j'ai quitté le Kung Fu. Cette vénération du maître et la répression des remises en question me puait au nez.
Ça fonctionne comment ton école avec la situation du covid ?
Haha... touché 😉
En effet, j’ai omis l’aspect sectaire parce que ce ne sont pas toutes les écoles de Kung Fu qui le sont, et ce genre de dynamique toxique peut se développer dans n’importe quelle hiérarchie sociale.
Et ça nous ferait plaisir de t’aider à progresser, soit en personne ou sur Zoom! On applique toutes les restricitions nécessaires pour la sécurité COVID.
Visite le site EffectiveMartiaArts.com et réserve-toi un rendez-vous!
Bien hâte, et merci pour le commentaire 🙏
What styles of Kung Fu did you do? 🙂
Vietnamese Wing Chun.
@@EffectiveMartialArts I think I've seen vids of that.
Hey man, I uploaded two vids of Kali sparring - one knife duel and one knife disarming spar. Hope you enjoy it and try weapons fighting next time. MMA is great, and we can make it greater! 🙂
Yeah, we used to do weapons sparring before as well, and it’s something I am looking to bring back eventually. I just find that for most students, the priority is developping the physical attributes, knowledge, and skills resulting from proper fitness and hand-to-hand combat training. Thanks for the suggestion, we will get to it some day 🙏
@@EffectiveMartialArts I've also returned to MMA. Gone full circle. I used to be an MMA fanboy, then got disillusioned after encountering FMA and Systema for the first time - made me feel like my wrestling, boxing, and BJJ was worthless.
I had moved to TMA since then but am studying MMA again with a renewed appreciation for it.
No sorry but most Kung Fu is NOT sub-optimal. What is sub optimal is the fact that many TMA's have not kept up and incorporated regular pressure testing. It is as simple as that. MMA does not have more effective techniques or principles. All it has that is better is a training methodology that incorporates regular live sparring.
Add that to any TMA and they are effective for self defense.
They may not be effective for MMA as they will unlikely cover all three domains that MMA requires. But self defense is a different thing all together.
Greetings from Athens!
Thank you for the comments, Stelios! Glad you enjoyed the content 🙏
- Patrick
You are welcome Patrick!
Keep up the good job!
Ufc had always changed there theories on fighting head kicks don't work striking doesn't work now there working even karate is working in mma
You can make a lot of stuff work if you already know how to fight...
@@EffectiveMartialArts uhhh…. So it works? That’s what I hear dude.
I believe that martial arts will extinct,if the instructors don't start practicing realistically!
That wasn't KUNG FU(TRUE KUNG FU). Many use the term but don't actually teach/learn it.
Lol... have you found true Kung Fu? Share a video if you have... Indeed our methods were not all-powerful, but unfortunately, this was what we were led to believe in that school.
Sir I totally disagree with you it's been a proven fact that kung fu is one of the deadliest forms of martial arts there is I'm 59 years old and I've studied all forms of different martial arts I believe Bruce Lee and what he said study all forms of martial arts but the one thing I disagree with him is when he said throw most of it away I never throw nothing away I want to learn it all I had a guy one time challenge me and he was in karate and then I jumped into my tiger stance automatically and he backed off he didn't want no part of it I would love to challenge you to prove a point to you I can change my styles up so fast that even you wouldn't have a chance to defend against it I'm not saying I'm the best in the world I always want to learn new styles so keep up the good work CNC
At least Kung Fu got something that really can hurt someone, the tiger claw 🐅
No way, its the leopard knuckles strikes that are deadly lethal weapon!
Haha... don’t discount the crane’s beak, diamond finger, or pheonix punch! 😂
bruh today sanda is shaolin kung fu.traditiona styles ae only to practice coordination
Do you practice Sanda, are you part of a lineage? Do you have resources to prove the connections to traditional Kung Fu etc. Etc. Proof, stuff, substance, anything?
Is what basically Bruce lee said before your time!!
Exactly, Bruce Lee's thinking was a big inspiration when I started the pivot. The idea is quite common, and many people have tried to execute it.
Kungfu is encyclopedia of techniques Take whats useful.
Yeah, kinda... In my experience though, the useful is buried in a lot of useless. You can get better results by just studying what works.
Sunk cost fallacy... yep!
Lol... guess we've all been there!
Thanks for watching 🙏
- Patrick
Lack of evidence is not evidence of absence
My dad is a shikan Kung Fu hunggar master never lost wanna see video add me I'll send video
Please share the link here 😊
Check out Shifu Kanishka and you'll understand Kung Fu.
Checked him out. He can't fight. All his demos and practice methodology rely on the opponent's inaction. Pay attention to the demo partner, he invariably stops and waits for the "Shifu" to execute his techniques, while offering absolutely no resistance, or worse, actively complying and exaggerating the effect of the technique. There is no sparring footage. This is wrong.
@@EffectiveMartialArts True. But let’s remember that most traditional martial arts were for self defense of local villagers. Self defense is based on the principle of surprise and unpredictability. The ones who try to find a sparring (which is a consented fight between two parties) won’t find any effectiveness because they don’t understand the context of application. Look at the weigh-in: when one of the fighter makes a move, the other one is never able to block. The distance isn’t the same, the effect of surprise is there.
I don’t know about Kung Fu, but I remember that all karate forms have kicks to the balls, fingers gauging, throat grab, spinal contorsions, etc. How could be put that in a fight ? It’s like putting Muay Thai against Judo but not allowing any strike.
I remember I saw the channel of the Aikido guy that tried to test it in MMA. I’m shocked that a black belt of aikido tried to use that kind of art in consented agressive confrontation! There’s a misunderstanding of the principle of application of the art. When you read the Art of War, you notice that the key point of martial arts is to deceive the opponent, letting him think he’s in control of the situation to take advantage of the situation at a precise and strategic moment. Again this is impossible in a cage or a ring because if we’re in there, the opponent assume we’ll willing to fight. He’ll be prepared, guard up, awareness, feints, etc. This a complete different context. At the time you agree for the fight, you lose one strategic advantage. This is something you’ll be able to read in any manuscript of martial arts, including the Chinese, Siamese and Okinawan texts.
An example, a big news in France right now: a multiple times Muay Thai champion got beat up by a random guy out of control coming from street. He wasn’t expecting that, nobody was. That’s not a ring fight.
I love MMA and Muay Thai, I practice them regularly. I also love traditional Martial arts. We just need to make a distinction between both. You won’t find traditional martial arts in sport fights simply because that’s not the way to apply it. The ones who tried that kinds of challenge are foul. MMA is a sport (with some benefits for self defense of course!). MMA uses Judo and BJJ, not Japanese jiu-jitsu. MMA used Muay Thai, not Muay Boran. MMA uses sport karate (Machida), not Okinawan karate.
Steven Seagal recently said:”he you want to test my art, you come with no camera, no rules, no specific arena and you accept to die.” Yet nobody took the challenge.
Again, putting an art like aikido, Krav Maga or others in an agreed fight is the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen.
BUT! I do appreciate the work you put in your channel. That’s great stuff.
Regards.
@@shepardforce You’re making a serious leap in logic here. Just because trained fighters CAN be vulnerable to the element of surprise, does NOT mean that TMA “masters” aren’t. In fact, the latter are probably much more so. Anyone can get sucker punched or ambushed-except Batman. Additionally, saying a method can ONLY work with the element of surprise is an admission of its inadequacy. ANY strategy works better when the opponent is not expecting it. Furthermore, the element of surprise is fleeting. After the initial advantage, if the altercation is not decidedly won, the opponent WILL react violently and chaotically at best, or in a calculated, intelligent, and ruthless manner at worst. So why wouln’t you train yourself to ALSO overcome that highly likely resistance? That is the purpose of pressure testing and sparring. To forgo it is careless, lazy, and either a symptom of ignorance or wishfull thinking. So, to say that TMA are better suited for self-defense than modern combat sports methodology is simply wrong; they are not.
@@EffectiveMartialArts Yes, I think the best recipe for self defense purposes may be a strong background of sparring/randori or even perhaps some competitive matches with the addition of traditional martial arts for the awareness of the illegal techniques that should be used in emergency situations. As the combat sports could be a tool for physical and mental toughness, a lot of fighters bet on pacing themselves during the first round or so, especially in modern Muay Thai. Which is interesting in the context of sport strategy but inadequate for the street where you want to go all out right away. So my point here is, the full contact of MMA to build the fighter yes. But let’s not fall into the trap of competition (doing too much of it) where we end up selecting a fighting approach that takes advantage of the sport match situation rather than the pure element of survival.
To be honest, I can see where you’re coming from as I did it too. Started from Karate to quit and turn to MMA and Muay Thai. I recently get a bit more interested in my original background forms as I can relate a lot of the form’s moves to some of the Judo, Boxing or other stuff I did during my journey (a bit nostalgic I guess). But yeah,now thinking about it, I could understand and apply these techniques BECAUSE of the OTHER full contact disciplines. It’s true that I probably wouldn’t have my present level of proficiency without having passed through these years of rough sparring. So I could understand that somebody, who didn’t go through these “MMA” stuff, won’t master the technique properly. Perhaps the solution is to remaster the way these traditional martial arts are practiced. It used to be a time where body conditioning was a huge part of them. But the present day situation has made them more of a recreational or beauty salon practice, unfortunately.
So, long story short, I think we’re back to the point of your club if I’m right: improving the practice methods while preserving the effective techniques that TMA can offer.
Creating a new martial art ,gtfo
I know, it’s awesome!