Vision Pro is pushing the M2 too hard!
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- čas přidán 6. 02. 2024
- I begin my Apple Vision Pro testing with the quintessential web browser speed test, and there's something odd going on.
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What's odd? Safari M2 is usually ~500 right? Some extra VR overhead and it becomes ~400 ig
what the R1 Chip doin then if the M2 does some work for the VR stuff 🤔
@@eulehund99 R1 is for processing all sensor inputs
@@eulehund99 R1 is for processing the real time pass through data and the tracking iirc, M2 is still doing all the display/graphics stuff
Yeah, and this just doesn't bode well for the quest 3.
I was thinking, does plugging in changes anything.
I cruised by it quickly, but to see how much better hand occlusion is on Vision Pro, check out 2:54
That’s what she said.
You didn't mention the occlusion at all. But I noticed you stated it when it came to the Q3
Try doing the web test with screen recording off, suspect that could have a big impact
yeah they need to dedicate cpu / gpu cycles to do screen recordings and everything else to be honest.
Yeah, I was waiting for him to do a test that was not doing a screen recording at the same time, or at least make a comment acknowledging that it may have played a factor in the lower score.
But even still, that’s a good result considering the overhead that it has in addition to the screen recording.
I imagine half the usage of all VR is for…… so any slow loading or flickering is probably very frustrating. 🤨
I agree, flickering would make reading words in a scientific paper harder
Enjoying your AVP coverage, especially development focused. Thanks!
Glad you enjoy it!
If you use a CPU monitor like Status Lite you'll find the M2 is very busy. It's often sitting at 50% cpu usage with just a few apps open. That might be why the score is lower. It's got to be doing quite a bit of work to keep you immersed in a 3d world even if the R1 chip is helping out.
yes, I tried that and indeed with nothing gojng on the M2 is busy doing…something
Maybe load up the MacBook Air to the same CPU usage as the Vision Pro then rerun the test? Would be interesting at least :P@@AZisk
Does the macbook web speed hold when using Vision Pro's desktop monitor mirror feature?
stupid me. this would have been a good test to add, but I didn’t think of it.
Quest 3 actually has a fov (field of view) of 110°. Apple doesnt say anything about the fov of the vision pro, but Ifixit measured it around 100°. So yeah the quest has a little bit bigger fov.
Quest 3 actually plays vr games. Apple doesn’t mention
Which is personally a huge plus for me! A wide fov makes me more immersed, if the fov is small might as well just have a flat screen display, since a wide fov allows me to "look around with my eyes" inside the headset instead of rotating my head. Ofc 100° is still good but could be better for $3500 I feel like, most latest and greatest VR has around 110° now
Thanks for the numbers. Something does feel a bit more "open" about the Quest, but they both don't have the FOV as not wearing a headset.
I've seen that the FOV actually depends on the light seal you have, so it varies person to person
That's not true. I saw a VR expert's tweet about the field of view of both devices and they measure very identically.
I suspect there’s residual load coming from visionOS and recording that’s affecting the results.
Keep on going. I’m now living the metaverse vicariously through you. Just don’t unplug yourself.
"Alex Unplugged," I can see that being a decent acoustic album. 🙃
Hey Alex, how does that virtual display thingy looks like when using a Mac Mini/Studio?
Fov is the display one on the lenses is not of the passthorug camera, is the overall of the headset, quest 3 has only the frontal cameras
Maybe the screen Recording slows it a bit down. Have you tried i without?
I was thinking if there is any performance lost on the Quest 3 when doing screen recording and hand tracking. Maybe a run without recording and using controllers can be compared to the data obtained in this video, but I doubt if it will get remotely close to what the Vision Pro got.
What annoys me about the Quest 3 recordings is that they don’t capture the graininess of the pass through, which I find to be really bad even in a well lit room
Same reason your phone camera doesn't either when you use high iso and fast shutter speed
@@maxstafford4007 the difference is that the video recordings look far better than what’s shown in the headset
Thanks for your videos! Interested in the Vision Pro as a replacement for a traditional multi-monitor developer setup. How good does it feel to work with it in reality for coding? Could it replace a developer setup of say 3x 4k traditional monitors with virtual screens? How readable is the text and how comfortable is it after using it for a few hours? Thanks a lot and best regards, Peter
Check out the live video Alex did earlier today; gave me a really good idea of how it would and wouldn't work well for me as a productivity tool. I'm really excited for the tech but it convinced me I don't need an AVP yet unless a project comes up where we need to build and test an app for it.
@@DanielHarrisCodes thanks! Yes, i came to the same conclusion! :) Best regards!
I wanna know if running VSCode on Mac pairing it to the Vision Pro is a good coding experience.
Sit close to your tv hooked up to your mac and try it for yourself
Its an ipad strapped to your face so same dev rules apply - no code generation - no compiling, no jit compilers (v8 in nodejs)! At least that's my assumption. That makes for a device that will unfortunately stay a periferial, not a full computer
@@nathanfranck5822they probably meant the big screen feature where you have your mac display inside the AVP, in which case it will work.
It works surprisingly well if the comfort is okay for you, I normally develop with a 42" LG OLED at home but if I'm at work or at a Starbucks etc. It can simulate that pretty well!
What happens if you turn on Accesiblity > Color filters and turn the colors into greyscale? will passthrough look grey scaled too?
So it did that while recording 4k(ish) video stream and compositing 2d web page to 3d space. Actually, very impressive.
bro does NOT know how the AVP works
edit: dang I was wrong
@@eulehund99 Care to explain?
@@eulehund99 what's inaccurate here lol
@@chiroyce welp my bad, looked it up again and the R1 is only for the sensors and some work on that data. I trusted a YT video too much.
@@eulehund99 No problem bud, thanks for clarifying!
Did screen recording make much difference to the result?
I was thinking, does plugging in changes anything.
I believe it will only get better over time one of the things I love about Apple is how frequent they release updates for their devices Apples ability to make a old device feel new with software updates is awesome
Great video. The “bubble” view doesn’t seem bad on the VP to me because of latency. Just like your real eyes, you don’t stare straight ahead to see something on the side, you look at it. The ability to look at what’s over there with no delay, no lag is what makes the VP much better. Latency also has something to do with why people experience motion sickness and nausea while wearing the Quest and other headsets, but not the VP.
I’ve noticed that the brighter the lights, the less latency, which makes perfect sense bc that’s how iphone camera work too
@@AZisk I’ve heard that too. How do you watch movies in bed if the lights need to be on?
@@sharonb.9128if you’re just watching a virtual screen, you won’t notice any issues. environment gets dimmed, and you can even enter virtual environment to avoid pass through altogether.
@@AZisk ok, got it, it’s just the pass through world.
2:51 The only youtuber I saw who did this! FOV is so small as you mentioned.
I wonder if an M2 iPad would yield a speed score more similar to the AVP?
I think you need to compare to iPad Pro M2. Moreover, VisionOS also based on iPadOS.
I'm a 3D artist, but for the past two years started to explore coding with SwiftUI. I'm curious about ARKit and implementing 3D touch to make apps for 3D modeling and animation.
Without a controller/pen i think is gonna be hard to 3d model or to be accurate
Thank you Alex. I suspect the Vision Pro is utilizing the M2 capabilities for quite a few tasks (unoptimized for now) while functioning therefore whenever you run the speedtest the test does not have all of the M2 resources at its disposal.
I suspect it is also not clocking as high in either single core or multi core, given the more challenging battery situation.
Can you please test and explain the following: (a) In controlled circumstances, like being at a table with things just a few feet away, take a spatial video on the 15 Pro or 15 Pro Max. Note that the two lenses capturing the two perspectives are less than an inch apart. (b) Play the video back on your Vision Pro. The illusion that you are there has to be created for your eyes whose spacing is more than two inches apart. (c) Explain how the necessary perspective change is achieved. Or maybe it isn't achieved. Very curious.
Perhaps the better word than perspective change is parallax. The spacing of iPhone camera lenses vs. your eyes requires different parallax to seem correctly immersed.
i’ve been thinking about this, and I really don’t know how they do it to compensate for different distances. perhaps they don’t and our brains adjust
@@AZisk Thank you for contemplating, and hopefully solving the mystery. I can't justify spending $3499 and investigating myself, so I avidly await what you discover.
The Q3 score very likeyl dropped aswell cause of the screen recording.
I wonder how well the Hololens does on the same test
I’m shocked no one has gotten VSCode to run on this so we can start to develop apps while actually wearing it.
What did the iPad with M2 fair?
Perhaps a bettr test would be an M2 iPad Pro versus Vision Pro?
Does your router speed influence the speedometer test like ookla speed test?
no, the js runs locally and the test starts after all the js is downloaded
The ookla speed test is ENTIRELY dependent on network speed whereas this is ENTIRELY dependent on the hardware/software.
In Ancien Civilization language "Spacial Computer" means " yeah , its a headset"😊
Apple just being that one special little butterfly again
welcome to “Marketing 101”
Probably because it’s visionOS 1.0. They may fix the speed issues and other bugs.
The Q3 is optimized to be used with vr controllers with haptic feedback and very precise, the hand tracking is a beta option.
Looking forward to...
I'd be fascinated to see what it's like with a massive desktop in the virtual world. Vs code windows all over the place... Browsers, emulators, all filling the room and doing stuff in the Vr world. I'd like to see that device pushed to its Max. 😊
It can’t really do that, just one virtual mac monitor and just ipad apps around so no emulators terminals etc big flop in my opinion could have been better if you could actually compute in the spacial computing device
Just looking at the screen recording of the meta quest already make me feel sick……😢😢😢
The low tone bumping every time you hit the desk is very discomforting when listening with headphones.
ah. sorry about that. i know how annoying that can be and try to avoid that. forgot to eq out the lows this time
The field of view of the cameras is not the same as the fov of the screen
We'd like to see you develop virtual pets! Like a cat or birds that live in your space when on AVP!
Dude. Where is our “developer setup guide for Vision Pro”?
Is like the one for the ipad it doesn’t exists and probably never will lol
@@JuanFmTech EXACTLY! We need that ASAP.
I got over 400 with VisionOS 1.1 beta.
Doesn’t seem like anything is wrong. The CPU in the Vision Pro is likely being used quite a bit, then you add the web test and it doesn’t have that much spare CPU usage to get a good score. Have the Air do a cpu intensive task and then run the web test at the same time.
what’s so intensive that the AVP CPU is doing?
Isn’t the second chip R1 for the vr ar stuff? So the M2 should be almost only for apps
Is $3500 so is not crazy to expect at least the same speed as a 600usd mac mini by the same company
@@JuanFmTechit's the same chip, but likely it's still doing some of the vr work as well, the r1 can only do so much, it's probably a lot harder to optimize a 3d OS than a 2d one, it's more complex to calculate stuff like occlusion, etc.
@@JuanFmTech $3500 is for the build material and all the tracking/AR/VR tech - if you care even the slightest about web browsing performance where you aren't content with a near 400 score in speedometer then the Vision Pro is the stupidest device for that.
@@chiroyce so you like new things being slower that’s ok
1:24. It's amazing watching everyone completely missing the point. The MQ3 is a VR headset, and everything about it is done simply to facilitate that. The AVP on the other hand has an entire operating environment surrounded around the idea of computing within space. MQ3 is not concerned with this, they just want to launch you into whatever VR experience you're looking for. Try multitasking in both and get back to me. Apple calls it spatial computing, because that is what their focus is, and the VR is just a tool that enables that, like a monitor lets you see what your desktop computer is doing. Meta on the other hand is focused on the experience of VR, and their software is only there to let you get into whatever VR experience you're looking for, just like a DVD player is only there to let you see things on your TV. Yes, yes, the MQ3 is a computer, but computing is clearly not their focus, it's just there because it needs to be. The MQ3 is more like a PS5 on your face, and the AVP is more like an iPad on your face.
Spacial computing is having to buy a $1000+ mac just to actually compute inside your $3500 glorified mix reality single virtual monitor
@@JuanFmTech I don't know, maybe you're confused because I said "monitor". My point was not that the AVP is a monitor, my point is the VR aspect of the device is simply there to let you see the spatial computing environment. Like how a monitor is there to let you see your desktop computing environment, even if that monitor is on a laptop. You don't call a computer, a TV, just because it has a monitor. Likewise, Apple isn't calling the AVP a VR headset, just because it makes use of one to present you their spatial interface.
@@bujin5455 like you said in the original comment vision pro is an ipad in VR/MR so like the ipad hasn’t replaced the mac for real computing beyond graphical artists and people checking their emails the vision pro won’t truly be a computing platform until it gets real apps like the mac has and a keyboard that is not attached to a mac cause people be needing to type not in the air or with ther eyes which are both slower and voice is inaccurate and awkward
Having it based on the ipad OS makes sense for the touch targets being used by your eyes which are not that accurate too, but is a real hindrance when it comes to the actual computing capabilities and future potential
So for now is a virtual monitor with some widgets and a safari window around your virtual mac monitor
@@JuanFmTech it depends on what you mean by "real" computing. I would consider "mobile computing" to be "real computing". It's clearly not "desktop computing" but it has it's own strengths and weaknesses. But mobile computing still has a computing focus that a game console does not. A computing environment, of any sort, is application focused, and focused on how to manage those applications in order to allow you make the most of them within that environment. A "console" is more of a portal to an experience. Clearly the MQ3 is more of a console than a computer.
Now you might look at the desktop and say that's the gold standard of computing, and if whatever that's under consideration isn't at least that flexible and powerful then it's not a computer. But clearly mobile computing is something other than a console, something more like a computer, but there are trade offs because it's mobile, that makes input more difficult, but then it also gives you a degree of mobility even a laptop won't. Also, the mobility itself enables applications you can't do with a laptop (which is really just a portal desktop). For instance, I have an app on my phone that I can take pictures of any plant I come across (which is always in my pocket), and it will tell me what the plant is, and all the things I might want to know about it (like if it's edible, how to take care of it, etc). That is not an application that can meaningfully exist within desktop computing, and trying to make it work in that context is even more clunky than trying to type out your next novel on an iPhone/iPad.
Likewise, spatial computing offers unique input challenges, and unique application opportunities. Because the space is new, those opportunities are difficult to see at this time, as they haven't been built yet. But you need a chicken before you get eggs. The fact is, Apple is more focused on this as a computing device than they are on it being a console device. I have both the MQ3 and the AVP, and I can tell you, the difference in focus between the two approaches is stark.
@@bujin5455 time will tell i guess but so far I haven’t needed an ipad to replace the mac/iphone combo and when i tried one it felt just unnecessary and limited so the AVP feels more of the same, focused in consuming content more than actually creating it or doing any type of work/computing as basic as typing a document would be worse on an ipad without keyboard or AVP by itself
Nice chat and you present nice points and arguments hopefully you can see why i called it a virtual monitor with widgets too,
the price, all the downsides of the battery pack, discomfort in long sessions due to weight, limits of ipad apps and worse input than a mouse keyboard and is not looking good for a computing platform as Apple wants to pretend it is, again is closer to a consumption device like a tv or an ipad they exist and are cool but are not all that computing focused
Quest running as slow as a 2009 pc.
You talk about the Vision Pro while wearing the Meta Quest in the left hand video. I assume that's just an editing mistake but I think you should fix and reupload this.
No mistake. I talk about the vision pro in the video, and show the vision pro as well, you just have to be patient and watch the rest of the video :) THanks for the comment.
@@AZisk I did watch the rest of the video. I think showing the Quest while talking about the Vision Pro in the early part of your video will still be confusing for viewers.
@@nathanlewis42I think my viewers are pretty smart, they’ll figure it out.
Yup, we’re smart.
The best comparison would be to use a M2 iPad Pro.
what even the hell are you using for web speed test? :S
check the speed without screen recording
Only me who feels very dissy watching a video when the camera is tilted down and also his head is tilted?
The vision pro is probably doing a lot more stuff in the "background" than the MacBook.
Like screen mirroring so he can record this CZcams video?
I bet it’s 450-500
@@mtbmike9866 yeah and rendering for two 5k displays
you schould make the test without recording, it slows down performance
~400 on Vision Pro is still crazy fast tbh.
The vertical fov on the vision pro is smaller not necessary the horizontal view
that must be it. Something does feel a bit "tighter" on the Vision Pro. However, it's really only when paying attention to the FOV. When performing tasks, I don't even notice it.
Add coding experience on Vision pro
It uses 20% of CPU on your other video just setting there
I doubt 16GB of RAM on board is enough for the Vision Pro.
that’s like…32GB on the hololens :)
@@AZisklol nice one, and just one mac virtual monitor is like 2 real ones
Just noticed that you renamed your channel to Alex Z... Does it represent your position regarding the Russia-Ukraine war?
No, I just thought it was simpler for people to remember.
Yeah but it's not worth $3000 and if you think it is tell me why as it cost $1700 to make which means it should retail for $2,500 but no apple makes a whopping $1,300 at the expense of lying to you if your not in the know as a customer as I use alot of Apple products in my recording studio and there's no logic pro x but there's way more choices on my Quest 3 for music production and apple makes my production software so that is hilarious to me
It’s $3500 actually.
Secondly, you cannot tell whether it’s worth that, or any other sum, for **someone else**.
Thirdly, we have no idea of the actual cost of the hardware - let alone the cost of the massive R&D effort behind this device. It’s been at least half a decade in the making and it has custom silicon, a new operating system and so on. It has cost billions to get out of the door.
Finally, why do you think it should retail for $2500? Why not $2259, $2899 or some other utterly random figure?
Companies are free to price their products as they wish.
Can you give an advice for someone else based on your experience? @@jounnna8720
Yes and it's the same. This thing does not worth $3500 especially for what it does (it's my opinion, according to my experience with other similar devices).
For me this thing is useless, it wont give any advantage in coding or video/3d editing, also I don't want to ruin my eyes by using it instead of monitor, it too close to eyes, short sessions can be OK, but what's the point, for gaming, reading news, creating lots of desktops in your virtual apartment?.
Plus it's an electronic device that radiates a lot, especially with wireless connection and it's right on your head).
You need a physical keyboard for serious work. It's an ipad on your head with "remote desktop" to your mac (which is not very optimised for work in desktop applications)
As for the price you can compare its price to macbook air/ipad and Quest 3. All 3 have identical components. You can see probably most of the components in lates @jerryrigeverything video
Run both of these devices through the test again. But don't turn on screen recording, and on the quest turn off passthrough. Probably going to get a lot closer to the M2 Macbook Air on the Vision Pro than you did while screen recording. And while it is not going to improve by much, reducing the overhead by not screen recording and not using the passthrough should give a more accurate read on the quest, not that it's going to be any good. But Do note you are comparing a $500 toy to a $3500 toy. For $3500 the Vision Pro damn well better outperform the Meta Quest 3 in the kind of tasks it's advertised for.
I don't like comparing the two headsets, it feels disingenuous, like comparing a 2 door sedan to an extended bed pickup truck on their ability to pull a trailer full of assorted garbage. Like no crap the truck wins, it was literally built to do this. :/
these are the 2 things i have, my first two and only headsets. why WOULDN’T i compare them? I’m just sharing my experience, I don’t have any stake in either side.
@@AZisk Comparing the Vision Pro web performance against an M2 IPad Pro, or as you did with the Macbook Air, thats a more meaningful comparison to me, showing how much the operating environment has an affect on the overall performance of the same task on the same processor. It was good info to see how little of an effect it really had there. Especially since Apple is trying to position this so much like an ipad/macbook replacement. Especially with that pricing lol.
If it is clearly not for gaming what even is it good for? Only thing i see people mention is virtual mac monitor, and to that i say really? a heavy headset that only gives a single 27” equivalent virtual monitor and every reviewer agrees is uncomfortable for more than 45min is your big justification? With $3500 you could get like 5 external monitors or just 2 good ones and save $2500
I've only seen people saying it's uncomfortable to that degree for the solo loop band, but not the double band, my friend with it has been able to stay in it for 3 hours or more with no issue
bah. I did the speed test and got 272 in Chrome and have a 64 core threadripper. Owned by a laptop...
Wow what the heck, my 7700X desktop gets a 359 in edge(based on chromium). My M3 Pro MacBook gets a 563 in Orion somehow though. I wonder if since it’s a web browser the test is just heavily single-threaded which the threadrippers aren’t great at.
@@-Burb Yea it must be single core performance that is a bit week. This is a 3990X Threadripper, maximum boost is about 4.1GHz which is still pretty high. It is brutally fast in simulations though even though the new Threadripper of course is faster. I do wish it was a bit more snappy in single core applications like in games and Photoshop etc.
Those recordings always make me nausea, especially meta quest one. Almost vomit just by watching.
Promo>SM 😉
Use me as the like button if Alex is your favorite CZcamsr
Stopped watching this after one minute after asking me: Why are you comparing a 500 dollar device with a 4000 dollar on? That makes no sense.
well, since you stopped watching, you’ll never know.