Masso-ed Onefinity CNC with Vertical Cutting and Rotary 4th Axis!
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2024
- Instead of waiting on the Elite upgrade to the Onefinity CNC, I upgraded it myself. I also talk about my vertical cutting area on my waste board as well as my new Rotary 4th Axis. I also cut out a King Chess Piece using the rotary.
00:00-Intro and Masso Tour
05:09-Waste Board Vertical and Rotary 4th Axis install
10:38-Rotary 4th Axis Setup
21:34-How to create Rotary Toolpath in Vectric
33:11-Cutting out a King Chess Piece
Buy the rotary that I use in this video here:
amzn.to/3R08QgV
The bits that I used in this video:
1/4" 4 flute End Mill
amzn.to/3PBkb7U
Assorted tapered ball nose bits
amzn.to/3raKw2k
#onefinity #cnc #woodworking #diyfurniture #endgraincuttingboard #cuttingboards #vcarve #inlay #mallets #diy
This was a heck of a first video! I appreciate all the effort you put into explaining all the steps, I ordered this rotory to add to my Avid. It should be a slam dunk as the controller already has a stepper driver for the 4th axis ready to go, and I already have extra cables, I'm excited to try this out!!
Awesome build and design!! Thanks for sharing
Absolutely brilliant. This is the first video I have watched on this subject. I liked everything about it. The piano music was a great choice while the chess piece was being cut. The only thing I would recommend is … make more videos! Thank you for sharing.
Appreciate you posting this for us all.
Wow. That was awesome. And great job explaining the process too.
Great video. I really appreciate how you explained each step.
Your monitor control set up is fantastic!!!
I never seen anything like this before. This is incredible!
Amazing build and video. Thanks for posting.
That’s pretty slick. Nice job. Thanks for sharing.
Great video, thank you for taking time to upload and show the process in detail. I'm soon to have a play on a 4th Axis add on attachment over here in England. Cheers and all the best.
LOVE the modularity of your table, very creative/ingenious! Thank you for the video...
It was a pleasure watching !
Very well done sir!
Scott, already subscribed to your channel. Just read most of the comments and replies below. So just waiting to see more of your material and comments. Nice to hear from someone who's not from the CNC world journey into it. Good tips! Very valuable info, can't say enough: in one word Congratulations!
Nice work sir. I can't believe your design and upgrade. I want one! Im going to follow your work. This is amazing.
I’m so impressed with the work you did here. I’m brand new to onefinity CNC (only cut the Onefinity Team sign). I’m going to learn so much from you. Thank you!!
This is amazing love the wasteboard
I'm just outside Houston and I'm new to this as well, just hope I can be half as good as you make it look. Amazing video and great explanation of your process, it really helps me to understand more about it. I have watched a lot of videos and like them, but yours is the first I've ever subscribed too. Keep up the good work and can't wait for the next video.
Very impressive and very helpful! Thanks.
Very cool! Slowly getting into CNC and started out as a pen turner. So they is really cool! Thank you.
I just picked up that device off Amazon-from your link. Thank ya for this info!
Very nice video, thanks for posting this.
This is insane!
Fantastic job!
looks great
That looks very cool 🤠👌 Great Job👍
Awesome!
Well done!
I like how you got it all set up and well thought out.
This is my kind of thing 🤓
Subbed!
I taught in a high school and had a cnc metal lathe. We made a steel arbor that fit in the lathe and the students screwed an aluminum blank onto the end of the arbor. It kept the cutting tool well away from the chuck and the final pass could come down to a negative z value. They programmed all of the g and m codes from scratch and made a small Stanley Cup. I enjoyed your video and can see how a cnc router can be used to produce great results on something that most would use a lathe for. thanks.
Thank you for this video... way to exemplify the reality of CNC...
We get to taste what I am about to get into, and learn ahead.
Just discovered your channel fantastic rotary video just an awesome job 👏 keep them coming
Thank you for watching and for the sub!
Great video! Thank you!!
Very nice
Thanks for sharing the video. I learned a lot from your video. I built my own CNC Router but I was not happy with the control I have so I was searching for a CNC Control and I guess I found one after watching your video.
Wow. Thankyou Sir. Impressive setup and im not easily impressed. Been a long time CNCer and started out with CNC pro software and Master5 which later became Mach 2 and 3. We have certainly made som good progress in home Cnc. I think were at home Cnc pro now.. Thanks for this Inspiring content.
Great job!
I'm quit impressed........as a retired woodworker (high end staircases-furniture-etc. even a couple a dozen houses) of 60+ years, you my friend have taken today's new generation of tools to a level of craftmanship which in the past were made (or not) with very much labor and a lot of tears and pain, believe me I know first hand, bravo bravo bravo, the pieces you produce are first class and I enjoyed your new found expertise and especially your commentary, very professional, I look forward to the next video series, I have thought about adding one of the new CNC's to my shop and after watching your video's, well I just might, I think that this 76 year old "nail bender" may have another master piece in his future, well maybe, I just may become an apprentice of yours, blessings to you, t. Maranatha !!
Thank you for the kind words, sir!
And I am humbled by your experience, because YOU are a true woodworker/artisan!
A little insight on CNCing. There is a fair amount of computer work involved with setting up projects to cut on a CNC.
And I am by no means suggesting that you aren't computer savvy as you very well might be, but I only mention it because I have known people who are NOT computer savvy, to buy a CNC router to make stuff, and they hit a brick wall because of the time involved on a computer on the front end of it all, and then they feel as if they had wasted their money.
Most people think a CNC machine is like a Hewlett Packard printer that you take out of the box and hit 'CUT' and shazam! a carving appears, but sadly it isn't like that.
But if you do possess a techy side, combined with your lifelong experience, then you'll easily turn our projects that would make mine look like kid stuff!
Good luck and thank you for watching!
I'm a retired craftsman too. It's been a long road my friend. There is one thing that feels odd and a little sad. When I need to replace or buy a tool now. I had always tried to buy the tool that will last 40 years. I no longer do that. It's Jesus time : ).
@@scott31312. All you classy “experienced” gents, it sure is enjoyable to read your stories. Mr Scott31312, My grandpa used to jokingly say, “At my age, I don’t buy green bananas”. Ha! (I sure miss that great man) I’m just now entering this hobby field, and I’m trying to absorb as much as I can. This is gonna be a long road, but I excited (and pensive) to see if I can translate all the ideas in my noodle into enjoyable pieces…. Hope hope hope. Kind regards.
Killer build dude! So many great features, the vertical cutting as well as the rotary integrates in and keeps full functionality, the rod in the rotary for setting your home, super slick! Great time-lapse of the finishing pass cutting out the chess piece, so satisfying. Also, thanks for the shoutout!
Thanks for all your help as well, buddy.
And thank you for watching!!
Pretty cool! I've been thinking about a CNC and you're convincing me to spend money!
Great vid I am hoping to be able to make a setup with rotary on my journeyman this winter as it will take me that long to learn an build a controller to accommodate this function i running onefinity controller now wish it had the option to add to it. Thxs for your time putting this together an sharing with everyone.
All I can say is WOW! Amazing...
What an awesome setup! Make me one! Lol. Neat and orderly. I'm the guy walking around just cleaning my shop!
Thank you for this
Very very cool I wish I had gotten into that year ago. Now resin 3D printing for model car parts for an aftermarket products for the hobby. Thanks for sharing. 🙂Thomas over at The Model Hobbyist
Love it!
I take my head off to you, sir
It brings back old memories 30 years ago thereabouts. I have done the same thing build my own rotary axis. Unfortunately for me those days it still was a 3 axis machine instead 4
I used the X axis as my rotary
And of course we did not have sophisticated software I had to write my own G
Code it has definitely inspired me too. Get from Amazon, a rotary X today. Just have to educate myself a little bit more on the latest aspire software. Cheers, Ziggi Montana
I have heard from other operators who have enlightened me on how they had to program every move of a CNC before the advent of the CAM software we use now. My hat is off to you!!!
Thank you for watching!
Nice setup. The way I zero my rotary is that I have set an offset from the rotary housing. It is not going to change no mater what. It has been reliable so far.
Good 3 D example.
If you want more Z clearance, put spacers in the 4 corners of the machine X/Y axes.
For the 1/8 bit, get an ER11 bit holder with a 1/2 shaft, will give you more clearance.
Awsome video.....how did you know I was thinking of going down this road? Love the detail...I'll be keeping an eye out for more.
He certainly read my mind 😊
An excellent conception. And implementation
Exemplary!
I’d like to see more on the construction of your table
im interested in the dove tails!... i have also cut out for vertical on my waste board but haven't yet done any cutting so will be looking for this video for sure
I sincerely plan to touch on all of these things in a future video.
Thank you for watching!
WOW!!
It's a lovely thing watching all those fuzzies flying loose.
Loved the video. Wonder if there is a way to make the rotary spin continuously in one direction for the carve. Already ordered a rotary. Look forward to setting it up. This video definitely helped a lot. Also I know on the Elite machines with the masso controler when I use work origin it goes to the x&y zero of my work piece and not the home position, so there might be a setting you can change somewhere to make your setup do the same.
There is a toolpath that you can create for the rotary to spin constantly throughout the entire operation.
It involves using one of the rotary gadgets in vectric. I hope to do a video on that later.
Regarding the return to origin...
I'm speaking of the user input that can be assigned to a button like I have in the video.
There currently isn't anyway of assigning that particular function to a programmable user input in Masso.🙂
CHECKmark! on the angular setting, as the Y is wrapped around the rotary which uses degrees for its motion, thus must be set to that... or the motion will be way out of whack!
I responded to your previous comment.
Do you have a video on how to wire the rotary or does it come already wired, plug n play?
Sorry, no I don't.
There isn't anything special about wiring up the rotary. It's no different than wiring up any stepper motor for any of the other axis. And again, no. It isn't plug and play unfortunately.
But it isn't that difficult. If you can wire up a home stereo, you can do this!
Thank you for watching!!
Can you share more details and steps on how to connect the vertical router with masso.
By "Vertical Router", I am assuming that you are talking about a VFD and spindle?
If so, each brand of VFD has different setup parameters so it would be difficult to give you a specific answer to your question.
Masso does a good job of explaining how to connect a VFD/Spindle to the controller.
Check out this CZcams video.
czcams.com/video/AzOOY9UHMas/video.html
I hope this helps.
Thank you for watching!
@@MandSWoodworks thanks for your reply. How to connect or wire the Rotary 4th Axis to my Onefinity controller? I have my onefinity elite and Rotary 4th Axis. I've searched most of the documents but to clear steps explaining how to connect.
Could you do a video on the wiring and setup of the 4th axis
Hi John!
I have my next several videos already planned out, and unfortunately they don't include the technical side of the rotary, but I do plan to do something like that down the line.
But I will leave you with this:
Wiring up the 4th axis isn't any different than wiring up any stepper motor on a CNC machine. If you can wire up the XY or Z then you can easily wire up the rotary the same exact way.
And as far as setup would be on a MASSO controller, I covered that in this video.
I hope this helps and thank you for watching!
Nice setup! Could you explain the benefits of the vertical cutting surface? I'm not sure I understand why it would be worth having. Great video!
The vertical surface comes in handy for doing joinery.
If you were to buy a dovetail bit for the CNC, you could do dovetail miters for furniture, boxes, etc.
I have a video on my channel where I built a bassinet for my first grand kid and I used it quite a bit.
Thank you for watching!
@@MandSWoodworks ahhhh, understood! And the reason your drop-in setup is necessary is because the clearance isn't sufficient on the bed to do that kind of piece. Now I'm with you. Thanks, brother. Looking forward to seeing more of your work!
I just watched your video on the bassinet. Very nice. I hope to do that quality of work. I have a onefinity woodworker and was wondering if it could have a rotary axis added to it the same way you added to your model? Any insight would be appreciated, Thank you for your time.
Thank you!
The Elite Series Onefinity with the MASSO controller is Rotary Axis capable very easily.
It's the MASSO controller that makes it possible.
If you have the Onefinity controller, not so much.
I have read about hacks being done to the Onefinity controller, like disconnecting the Y axis steppers and plugging it into a Rotary Stepper, but I don't think it's very easy to do.
I hope this helps.
Thank you for watching!
Saw your post on Facebook and came here to watch the process. Great video! I think I could even follow this and that’s saying something. Appreciate you taking the time to show this. I have one question. Given the angle of your cutter, do you wind up with a flat bottom to your piece? Seems like you’d have a taper there.
Since making this video, I've more or less perfected how I cut these out.
I've learned a ton over the past few months.
I still carve out the chess piece using a tapered bit, but now I include a final tool path that cuts the finished chess piece from the blank by using a straight end mill. This not only separates the chess piece from the blank but it also flattens the bottom of the chess piece by cutting out the taper.
I plan on posting a video of the making of the chess set, hopefully in the next week or so. Stay tuned! 😉
Thank you so much for watching!
Thanks for the reply. I’ll be waiting for the video update
Wow
I totally love your setup and tutorial. If I want to do a setup like yours or just want to get a rotary and set it up to my new elite journeyman, could I contact you in a private message and then pay you to help me set it all up step by step? I have been using a smaller Cnc machine for over a year so I understand the Cnc moderately.
Thanks again
Chris
Amazong setup, very inspiring! One quick question: which coolant do you use for your spindle?
Thank you!
I use 50% distilled water/50% RV antifreeze.
Thank you for watching!
really enjoyed the video, great work. One question -- where did you get that touch plate? I was just on the Masso website and I don't see it in the "accessories" list and can't tell if it's just included when you buy Masso? I really like that hole in the plate where you can easily probe for X and Y zero with a metal dowel like you showed in the vid. Please let me know, thanks!
I had it custom made.
There are several like it on Etsy but none with the specs that I wanted so I drew up a model on Fusion and sent it to one of those online machine shops.
This is after I tried to make my own on my machine. I got close, but I discovered fairly quickly that cutting wood versus cutting aluminum is 2 different animals.
I have no ambitions of working with aluminum and I figured that money I would spend just learning to cut aluminum I could just get it made professionally.
And yes, In my opinion setting XY center using a center probing method is more accurate and faster!
I hope this helps.
Thank you for watching!!
excellent! looking for a way to continue a 4th axis operation after a manual tool change and that's exactly what you describe starting @4:11.
My question is ...how?
In the same post you defined a tool change or you have separate posts for each tool?
where is the length compensation happening?
Thanks!
I hope that I'm understanding your question correctly and that I'm giving you the answer you're looking for.
A tool change is initiated in a rotary tool path no differently than any other type of tool path and would greatly depend on the post processor that you use in your CAM software.
With that, I'm going to assume you have the Masso controller so I'll comment on the steps that happen when a tool change is initiated.
Let's say that you've created a clearing/roughing tool path using a 1/4" end mill and then a finishing tool path using a tapered ball nose.
You've homed the machine in the beginning with the end mill and your zero origins are set. You've completed the roughing tool path and now you've loaded the finishing tool path and start it. Once you hit START, here is what should happen if your machine is setup correctly:
1. The spindle will move to coordinates you've previously setup in the controller, and then it'll stop, allowing you to change the bit from the end mill to the ball nose.
2. Once the ball nose is loaded you hit START again and then the spindle moves to the coordinates where your tool setter is located. The Z will drop slowly until it touches the probe block.
This is where the length compensation occurs.
3. The spindle will move back to the zero origins for XY and then begin cutting again.
You only have to probe for zero 1 time, before the first tool path is ever ran.
And that's done using a separate probe.
Every tool change after that will ALWAYS touch off on the tool setter to set the length compensation.
Did that answer your question?
@@MandSWoodworks Thanks again! You did. Now I'll have to try it (I'll test it without. a stock in place - oh and I have to do a quick run to princess auto for a 0.5" rod to "find" my A axis center..) . My Post is Mach3 and I can instruct it on tool change to go where the plate is located and wait for the change. REally appreciate it, I'll reply with how it works
Great vid. Thanks for the "how to" on the 4th axis. This will help many a CNC hobbyist.
So, you mentioned you use the 3Nm Masso motors. For all Axis? XYBZ?
Did you have the smaller motor prior and experienced issues and then upgraded?
Or was it the new Elite owner’s complaints?
Yes, I have the 3Nm steppers on all axis.
No, I didn't buy the 3Nm steppers due to the complaints of the smaller steppers. In fact, when I ordered the MASSO system from MASSO, I had not heard of the problems with those steppers, and had only heard of them right about the time that I was making this video.
MASSO doesn't even sell the steppers that come with the Elite machine, the smallest stepper that MASSO offers (2Nm) is still more powerful than the Elite steppers.
Between you and me, I believe that the Elite steppers are a 3rd party stepper that was outsourced just for the Onefinity machines and MASSO put their brand on it.
But to answer your question, MASSO offers 2 steppers. 2Nm and 3Nm.
The 3Nm is only $12 more than the 2Nm, so I just said, "What the heck?!", and ordered the 3Nm.
They might be overkill for what I do, but I have no regrets.
They have performed flawlessly.
Thank you for watching!!
what did you use as a washer so to speak for the rotary attachment to the 20/20 since they are different widths?any pics close ups top and underneath?
I'm sorry but I'm not understanding your question.
No washers or shims were used.
The rotary assembly and the tail stock both sit flush against the 2020 extrusion, and I use 8mm screws with T-nuts in the channel of the extrusion to secure it.
I hope that I answered your question.
Yes sir I see that is on the upper side of the trail etc where the heads of the 8mm screws are it appears that there is a piece with 3 holes for the screws
Love the video, keep it up. Quick question, did you use the stepper integrated with that rotary, or replace with a closed-loop or other stepper?
I used the stepper that came with the rotary.
I wanted to put a closed loop on it, but they are much longer and wouldn't fit without some major surgery on the rotary frame.
But I've come to realize that the stepper that comes with it is more than adequate.
Thank you for watching!!
@@MandSWoodworks One other question - do you happen to have the vectric or digital file you used to create the wasteboard holes? I can't tell from the video if that's 3/4" PVC dogs, but I'm trying to replicate your design from watching the video. Thanks.
Hi there. If you have a moment to answer a question I’d be grateful. I have the Masso touch and want to add some buttons, park etc. For park did you attach one wire to power and the other to an input?
Correct. With the button you're using to initiate it wired between them.
Thank you for watching!
@@MandSWoodworks thank you. Love your videos.
Hi, thank you for the videos and explanations. While I was watching the finishing pass, I wanted to ask. How does the CNC realise a bit is broken or damaged?
It doesn't realize when a bit is broken or damaged.
You, the operator have to keep a watchful eye on such things 🙂
@@MandSWoodworks thank you. I always wondered why people said we shouldn't leave the CNC alone. Just a follow up question, how dangerous are the flying bit pieces when they get broken? How do we locate them?
At 31:00 you mention using a 4º (4.16º as displayed on screen) tapered ball nose bit. How did you determine the angle? I can't seem to see the angle description in the Amazon link that you've provided for the bits.
I just had a look at the Amazon page.
Apparently they've changed the listing since I bought them.
Check the SpeTool website.
They have that set listed with the angles of each bit.
Thank you for watching!
@@MandSWoodworks Got it, thanks!
Awesome video! Can you tell me how long the part took to make?
Thank you!
It took about 45 minutes.
Check out my latest video where I cut the entire chess set out.
I show cutting times for each piece.
Thank you for watching!
I’d like to know more about how you added the tool setter to the home routine and make the bit length offset work?
The best way to explain it is to direct you to the MASSO documentation on how to setup the tool setter.
docs.masso.com.au/wiring-and-setup/touch-plate
Adding the tool setter to the homing routine is done simply by enabling it in the settings.
It was one of the easier things to setup when I upgraded to Masso.
I hope this helps.
Thank you for watching!!
So that automatically does the tool offset when enabled? I haven’t received my Onefinity yes
Nice setup. Where did you get your STL models? Can you share the location?
I bought these particular pieces from 3D-STL-Store.
3d-model.store/catalogue/chess/
Thank you for watching!!
@@MandSWoodworks Awesome thanks. Keep up the great work - I know form my Own channel that CZcams takes a ton of effort.
Yes it does!
Just as much if not more than the project!
Good luck to you as well!
Can you do indexing and milling turning with that rotary? I am trying to decide on a rotary but would like to be able to do both.
Logan,
Check on my channel for a video where I made a chess set using the rotary axis and it'll give you a bit of insight on what you can do with it.
Here's a link to save you time.
czcams.com/video/N_qa-iqUISM/video.html
I have used my rotary in a couple of my videos.
Thank you for watching!
Do you have plans for your spoil board?
Sadly no, I just drew up what I wanted on my CAM software and went at it!
Thank you for watching!
Great video!
By any chance do you a link for the 4th axis assembly? Do you have a homing switch on the 4th axis?
Thank you!
There is a link in the description of the video to the rotary I have.
No, there truly isn't a need for a homing switch on the rotary unless you have a project where multiple operations are required.
For example, you make a rotary cut, then remove the piece, make a cut on a new work piece, then replace the first work piece on the rotary to make a different cut.
As long as you don't remove the work piece and/or move the rotary chuck, it will hold the position until you are finished.
Thank you for watching!
Have to ask… rotary and tailstock are mounted on Thomson rods? What did you do so the tailstock is aligned with the center of the rotary?
Thank you!
No, not rods.
I built the frame from 20mm extruded aluminum and that is what the chuck and tail stock are mounted to.
The MDF insert acts as a rail guide to keep the chuck and tail stock aligned.
It's mentioned here- 9:00
Great video! I’m still waiting impatiently for my OneFinity.
Starting to build my table and I'm having a hard time nailing down a final design.
Just when I think that’s the one. I see another video with a better design. I'm liking your set up quite a bit.
Since you have the 4x2 it makes sense to mount the Vertical/Rotary Combo on the X axis, so you can use the full width of the Rotary.
I notice some people with a 4x4 mount their Rotary and or Vertical Table on the X axis, and some mount on the Y axis.
And some are on the outer edge, while some are set into the middle like yours.
With a 4x4, do you think it makes much if any difference which axis for Rotary/Vertical Table?
Is it just personal preference?
Or might that impact something that I'm not thinking about?
My head is starting to hurt from all the what if's… lol
Thanks for all your Great Work!
Thank you for the compliments!
In reality, mounting your rotary axis on the X or Y axis will work fine either way.
But I do have an opinion on which axis is better for it, and I choose the X axis.
The reason being is that when you line your rotary to the X axis, the Y axis will always remain static during the cut.
On most CNC machines, the X axis only has one stepper that moves the gantry because it is much lighter and the Y axis has 2 steppers that move the gantry because it is much heavier.
If you mount your rotary on the Y axis, then the X axis remains static and the Y axis has to move back and forth to make the cut.
Because it is heavier, and relies on 2 separate steppers to move and keep it in place, if your steppers aren't perfectly aligned with each other, and/or the machine isn't incredibly rigid you open up an opportunity for inaccuracies.
Now, it can be argued that the same thing can happen on the X axis, and I agree that it could, but it's a far less chance than it would be with the Y axis.
I hope that this helps.
Thank you for watching!!
@@MandSWoodworks Thank you so much for the quick reply!
Makes sense to me now.
I'm going to go with the X axis for rotary and vertical insert access.
Now I just need to decide if I want t-track and dog holes?
Or just dog holes?
With the rotary you purchased off amazon, Its good to see that you can use the stepper motor that came with it?
Do you know why so many others talk about swaping out the stepper for one of the Masso steppers?
Is there a reason they do that?
Does a closed loop stepper have any advantage over this stock motor for a rotary?
Thanks Again!
@@KZ-1155
I've tried t-track and it works great, but like I mentioned in the video, there is more to maintain when you add variables to your waste board.
It all depends on how much trouble you're willing to go through.
I just wanted to point out that you can still have a method to hold down anything you want that was inexpensive and easy to maintain over the other options.
No, I think changing out the stock stepper on the rotary to closed loop is overkill.
The only benefit of closed loop is that it warns you if you skip steps.
That is indeed a benefit on the gantry steppers because they can see high loads. But unless you plan to mill metal on your CNC, the stock rotary stepper is more than enough.
I've used the stock stepper on my rotary since I bought it and it's been flawless.
Check out my video showing me making a chess set and you'll see how will it does.
@@MandSWoodworks Thanks Again!
I just realized I'm going with an ATC System.
The tools will be sitting on the left side.
I might need to stick with the Y axis for the rotary and vertical table insert, or lose a little of the width capacity of both if I use X?
Not sure if I'll ever need the entire width?
But I would hate to be wrong later down the line.
My head is starting to hurt again.... lol
Question on the 20x20 extruded aluminum frame.
On each side there’s 2 20x20 48” extruded aluminum lengths?
So a total of 4 20x20 48” extruded aluminum lengths?
The frame is inter-connected with join brackets?
Yes, there are 4 individual extrusions, 48 inches long.
The 2 outer most lengths of extrusion, I manually drilled 5 holes down the length of the extrusion.
Then I used a T-nut on the inner extrusions to secure the outer extrusion to them.
Make sense?
I hope this helps.
Thank you for watching!
And yes, I have corner brackets on all 4 corners to help keep it rigid.
Great video! if you don't mind me asking how much money altogether did you put into this setup?
Thank you!
I have never actually sat down and added it all up. But just doing a bit of math on a napkin, with everything you see in the video, I am easily around the $4500 mark. Bear in mind that I ordered the MASSO components direct from MASSO and I bought the bigger stepper motors as well, which would obviously increase the price. Add in all the materials, (wire, electrical components) it put me way over what it would cost to just buy the Elite model from Onefinity, which is considerably cheaper. But when you add the cost of the Rotary Axis, and the material to build a mount for it, then you still creep up over the $4k mark.
I don't regret it a bit though. I learned things about my machine that I might have never known, otherwise.
I hope that this answers your questions.
Thank you for watching!
Where can I get this machine and all the accessories my brother? Can you send me the link in the description
The machine is the Onefinity Journeyman Elite.
www.onefinitycnc.com/cnc-machines
The rotary, I bought off of Amazon. The link to that is in my description.
Thank you for watching!
Like this I tried to add a 4th axis didn't work I have clearpath motors just didn't know how to wire the 4th wire
Abram,
I am assuming you also have the Masso G3 motion controller, which is what gives the machine the ability to incorporate a 4th axis. Wiring the 4th axis to your controller is no different than wiring up the XY and Z axis.
There is excellent documentation on the Masso website on how to do it properly.
Thank you for watching!
Do u still use the same aluminum block to find your reference on a regular rectangular workpiece?
If you're asking about the probe block that is shown in the video, no.
The block in the video, I have assigned as a bit setter.
I use a different probing block for finding zero for XYZ.
I hope that I answered you question correctly.
Thank you for watching!
Do you use the same style block for finding xyz zero, just a duplicate block plugged into the probe port? I’d really like to see a video showing a complete setup and cut, with a tool change.
Same style, but not exactly the same.
But I could use 2 identical blocks if I wanted.
The way my controller is designed (Masso) it requires 2 separate blocks dedicated for each function.
They are both plugged into separate channels, (or inputs) each designated to each particular function.
I will put that on my "video to-do" list, to make a video discussing a tool setter and it's use.
Thank you!
I just got a Onefinity with the same Masso controller. I have the xyz probe. I want to do the same thing you did. What completes the connection on the tool setter (the probe block has the magnet)?
3:47 wait… I’m confused… I need to purchase that stepper separately? Doesn’t the Masso Cobtroller support 4th axis out of the box? Plus, I don’t think that will fit inside the Masso display housing (I will definitely not create a separate box)
I haven’t assembled my Onefinity yet, but I would expect to see the same things that you are seeing in the setup screen (X, Y, Z, A, B)… without purchasing some stepper separately… will I not?
Edit: just checked the Elite Foreman page, it says “Rotary Support”… now, doesn’t that mean that all you need to buy separately would be just the rotary? 🤔
First, and I am assuming that you realize this already, but I just want to confirm it before answering, for clarity...
I did not purchase the Onefinity Elite. I purchased the Masso controller and accessories direct from Masso and did the upgrade myself. My enclosures and the Onefinity Elite enclosures are completely different. So, with that...
I think that you're confusing 'Axis; and 'Stepper' as being the same thing. It is not.
And I regrettably misspoke in the clip you pointed out. I referred to the stepper driver that I am pointing to in the video as just 'Stepper', and it is in fact the stepper driver, that is connected to the stepper motor attached to the rotary. My apologies for that!
Yes, the Masso controller is 4th axis ready out of the box and your setup screens will look just like mine, but you must purchase a stepper motor and stepper driver separately if you wish to employ a 4th axis rotary like in the video.
And you are correct, I don't think that there is room to add a stepper driver inside of the Masso Touch enclosure. And considering that Onefinity provides enclosures for everything needed for the stock machine, you really don't have to add an additional enclosure for the 4th axis stepper driver.
You can mount the 4th driver most anywhere as long as it has sufficient ventilation for cooling and there is no fear of it being damaged by accidentally hitting it with something
I am not aware of any prosumer level CNC machine that offers a 4th axis rotary as a plug'n play add-on. If you want to add this feature to your machine, you're gonna have to do a bit of wiring yourself.
Don't let this turn you off of the machine. I think it's one of the finest CNC machines on the market, and well worth the hassle of upgrading yourself.
I hope that this helps, and thank you for watching!
Thank you for the quick response and detailed explanation!
About “Confusing Axis and Stepper as being the same thing”… I don’t think so, but maybe I am confusing something else. So, first: When I hear/say “4th axis”, I’m thinking it’s synonymous with “rotary support”, which is synonymous with “controlling/driving a rotary”… and “controlling” implies the controller (driver) exists in the package they are selling.
Second: when you said “stepper” I did actually think “stepper (motor?) driver”, no confusion there (and I also wrote “stepper” in my comment as well, thinking of “stepper driver”. I definitely wouldn’t expect to have to buy and hook that up separately, on my own. I would expect all the necessary stepper motor drivers to be included in the Masso controller, even more so because on the Elite Foreman page it mentions “Rotary support”. And even in your case, having bought the Masso controller separately. Because I think that supporting 4th axis (meaning “connecting and controlling/driving a rotary”) doesn’t depend on the cnc machine, but only on the controller (Masso)
Otherwise, this sounds like “we are selling you this car, which supports 4 gears. BUT if you want the 4th gear, you have to buy it from a third party wherever you may find it. We don’t even have it to sell it ourselves”. I mean at least put a checkbox “add rotary stepper driver” (+cost) on the Onefinity product page, so the stepper driver for the rotary comes built in (and optimized for the enclosure, like all the other parts) and I don’t need to have it outside of the screen housing somewhere. Otherwise, them saying “Rotary support” is equal to nothing really…
Now, I can’t let this turn me off, since the rotary is on the way 😅 but a bit disappointed maybe, if you are correct and the Masso that came with my cnc doesn’t actually support the rotary out of the box. And I’m not put off so much by having to buy it from somewhere else, 3rd party, or by being outside of the box, as I’m put off by the wiring 😅 Not all the wiring, I understand that most of that is the usual Masso controller, and in my case it’s already there behind the display, but at least if that rotary stepper driver connection would have been a single multi-pin connector…
I see your point, indeed. But unfortunately, this isn't the case.
Look at it this way...
If you buy a PC computer, it has printer 'support' but it doesn't come with a printer. You have to buy that, and install the wiring and printer drivers on your own.
Masso provides that same type of support for a rotary axis, but you have to buy and install the rotary on your own.
One of these manufacturers could offer a plug'n play solution for a rotary as a bundle, but I don't think the demand for it is great enough for them to create it. I don't know the number exactly, but folks like us who want a rotary and are willing to make the effort to learn to use it, we are in the 1 percentile. I think if more people grew to want this, then we'd see an offering from the manufacturers.
Also, be aware that when you get your Onefinity and your rotary, that Onefinity technically doesn't support the rotary. Masso does. So if you were to have a problem getting it going, and you were to contact Onefinity, they would quickly refer you to Masso support. And from experience, your best option for contacting them is through their forums.
And there isn't a huge topic on rotary axis there either.
That is why I made this video. My hopes were that I took a lot of the guess work out of installing it, because I myself had to do a fair amount of research, and trial and error getting it going.
With that, if you have any problems once yours arrives, let me know and I'll do my best to help you get it sorted out.
I’m betting on your video also! Great insight, helps other people avoid a lot of trial and error (will surely help me as well)!
Probably a lot of people think a 40-50 minute video is 2 hours of work 😅 For anyone thinking that: I’ve tried to make a video once and after a couple of days of work i gave up :))
Really appreciate it! Great knowledge sharing! Subscribed!
Very nice! How did you eliminate the wires from the front rails? Lots of onefinity videos have wires coming out of the front. Yours looks so much neater.
Thank you!
Instead of running the wires from the steppers located at the rear of the machine through the rails, I cut a hole in the table directly below the steppers and ran the wires through and underneath the table and then to the control panel.
Thank you for watching!
@@MandSWoodworks Thanks. I just ordered an elite foreman, a pwncnc 2.2kw water cooled spindle and a chiller. Trying to plan a nice table for this. they should do the wires like that from the factory. Not sure why wires would come out of the front. I did order the wire extension kit just in case. They should at least put 90 degree connectors on the wires to prevent damage. As I design this table, do you mind if I send you some designs and get feedback about some ideas. Thanks again.
@@dbchrocker
It would be my pleasure.
🙂
As far as the cutout for the vertical and lathe section, would you do anything different now? What are the dimensions of the 2 front waste boards? Are you running an 80mm spindle? Thanks
@@dbchrocker
The 2 front sections are 6 inches x 48 inches, each.
Yes, I am running a 2.2kw water cooled spindle.
One thing I would do differently is allow for a larger area for the vertical cutting area.
When I designed it, I put more thought into it housing the frame the I have the rotary axis mounted on. Which is how I came up with 6 inches.
I sincerely thought that I would never have a need to cut anything vertically that would be larger than 6 inches.
But there have been a couple of occasions where I wanted to fit something onto the vertical cutting area that was indeed larger than 6 inches.
I have often thought that if I were to ever redesign the table, I would allow the entire front 12 inches to be the vertical cutting area, and have it completely open in the front for easier access when mounting things to the vertical cutting waste board. Something similar to the Avid CNC vertical cutting option that they offer, where it would be easily interchangeable between the normal waste board and vertical cutting area.
But I think it would be better to make it out of extruded aluminum rather than wood, for rigidity and accuracy, and that would end up being pretty pricey.
I am very happy with how I have the table now, and what I just mentioned isn't a big deal to me. It works great like it is, but like I mentioned there are those rare times where I wish the vertical area was bigger. :)
I have struggled with this 4th axis nomenclature... now that I have acquired a bit more understanding, I want to say that this is NOT a 4th axis rotary, but a 3 axis rotary.
Your Y stays locked at the top center of the stock along the X. There is no Y motion while a job is running, or is there? (which would make it a 4th axis and allow for some undercuts!)
So, you may be using a 4th channel/port on the controller, but that does not make it a 4th axis.
The rotary chuck doesn't care what axis it is set to. It's basically just s stepper motor waiting to be told which way to turn and how fast.
The MASSO controller that I use is absolutely capable of 4 axis milling, where the X,Y,Z and A axis (A axis being the rotary) move together and all at once.
The limiting factor to all of this is the CAM software.
The only affordable Hobby Grade CAM software that is rotary axis capable is Vectric, but it can't create tool paths for all 4 axis. It wraps the A axis around the Y axis just like you described above.
You can buy CAM software that doesn't have this limitation but it's ~$10,000.00.
I don't know about you, but I can't afford that.
You are blaming the machine, when you should be blaming the software.
How has this set up help up?
I am not 100% sure that I understand your question, but if I am reading it correctly...
It has helped a ton! It has opened up many possibilities for me!
Thank you for watching!
@@MandSWoodworks sorry I meant to say how has it held up? Also is it just two extrusions held together by mdf or plywood in the center?
Oh! The rotary?
Yes it has! It's done great!
I built the frame by combining 2 runs of 2020 extrusion, to make what would technically be 2040 extrusion.
I used mdf in the center.
In truth, I'm thinking of redesigning it because I've discovered that if I cut longer lengths of wood where I need to slide the tail stock further away from the chuck, the alignment between the center points of the tail stock and the chuck become out of line.
It's only a problem if precision is a must, say if I were wanting a very long dowel rod and it needed to be consistent.
But otherwise, it does the job. 🙂
Hi i am quit impressed with your work but Sir you did't show how to save the file in gcode. So that i can run it in 4Axis GRBL cnc, or pl help me I am ahobbyiest .
I use Vectric Vcarve.
Saving gcode is the same for any operation you create.
I'm not familiar with other software so of you're using anything other than Vectric, I'm sorry but I wouldn't be of any help.
I will come right out and say it. I am stealing your setup. One question however, is that 2040 extrusion that you used, and how did you attach it to the center piece of MDF? Thanks for the video.
Steal away!
I cut tenons in the side edge of the mdf all the way around it, the same size as the channel in the extrusion.
I used 2 pieces of 2020 extrusion, shouldered together by cutting 5 screw holes down there length of the extrusion.
I used simple wood screws to secure the first piece to the mdf, and T-nuts to secure the outer extrusion to the inner.
Did that make sense?
Good luck and thank you for watching!!
Thanks for the quick response. Did not expect an answer so fast@@MandSWoodworks.
Sorry but the harmonic drives do not have as much backlash as belt. Its the reason they were built. You need to do your homework on them. I used to work with them in Aerospace jobs I had. They use them for the solar panels for satellites When they stop moving there is virtually no backlash.
Thanks Steven! Do they sell the harmonic drives used on space satellites that you speak of on Amazon?
I have no doubt that QUALITY harmonic drives are the best option over belt driven drives.
And purchasing a harmonic rotary was my first choice, but I researched the cheaply made rotational axis that you can get for a couple hundred bucks off of Amazon. Not the well made stuff that costs thousands of dollars. And in that research I came across one person's experience where they bought a cheap Chinese manufactured harmonic drive that I was looking to purchase, and he found more than 1/8" of backlash in the assembly and he was forced to rebuild it with quality bearings and other parts to minimize the backlash that he found. I also found similar experiences from other folks.
I read that other's experience with the belt driven devices were much more solid, and my guess is because of the much less complicated design. And I can confirm that with my personal experience with this particular belt driven rotary.
I have several hours on it now, and I haven't noticed any anomalies in the carve that would be present if there were any serious backlash.
So with that, I will continue to stand behind my statement, in this particular situation of cheap Chinese machinery for a hobby CNC machine, that the belt driven rotary is a better choice over the harmonic version.
Now, if I am ever to graduate from making chess pieces out of wood, to making solar panels for the aerospace industry, I will most likely spend a few more bucks on a precision made harmonic rotary axis for the job.
Thank you for watching!
Are you on instagram?
Yes sir!
mswoodworks22 on instagram.
Thank you for watching!
Great video, really like your rotary set-up. I just bought a rotary for my machine and have been struggling on how to mount it. Can you tell me how you attached the MDF to the aluminum rails. Your design is the best I have come across. Great work. Any info you can provide would be appreciated. Thank You......
I cut tenon's on the edges of the mdf panel to match the width and depth of the channel along the aluminum extrusion.
I drilled holes through the extrusion, along the length of the channel (5 holes) and used small wood screws to secure the extrusion to the panel. The screws were probably not needed but I added them for insurance.
I hope this made sense.
Thank you for watching!!
Thank you Scott. I'm going to follow your lead.