Sonics FORGOTTEN Mechanics...
Vložit
- čas přidán 7. 08. 2024
- What forgotten mechanics should I know of?
Hoping one day I will be the Internet Historian of Sonic...
Just a guy who likes talking about the blue rat!
Chapters
Intro:(0:00)
Summersault:(0:40)
Sweep:(2:17)
Drift:(3:50)
LedgeGrab:(5:47)
GrindRail Balance:(7:07)
TRICKS:(8:48)
MachSpeed:(10:00)
Crawl:(11:27)
Conclusion:(11:57)
======
Intro Inspiration: • Scout TF2 and H: Best ... - Zábava
The Insta-Shield is a pretty good forgotten mechanic in my opinion. It’s only been in a couple of games, but that feeling when you perfectly time an A-press and get a hit on a spiked enemy is amazing.
Or breaking a monitor encased in ice, leaving the ice intact!
it's satisfying too
I like to think there's a timeline out there where the Sonic Adventure team used the insta-shield's bigger hitbox to relieve the difficulty of landing on enemies in 3D space instead of the homing attack. I don't dislike the homing attack but I just wish it wasn't such a prevalent source of automation for the series. C'est la vie
Imagine if they brought it back but kept the homing attack, but slowed down the homing attack and made instashirld the faster option that lets you keep more speed
Basically a risk/reward option and it keeps the homing attack being viable as an option for movement in air and if you want to be a little more careful around enemies
@@Ziris85 you can do that without the insta shield if you go from high enough
Bro making the actual list itself interesting instead of just slapping the picture on and moving to the next one... The MVP of the genre.👍👍
Actually Sonic Advance's summersalt is good for speedrunning 'cause it allows you to hit a horizontal spring without losing speed
Sonic advance was such a cool game
That, and you can do a backflip out of the somersault-slide transition to get to a higher path that you missed or dodge an enemy attack while it's active.
This can only be done in Advance 1 though since in 2 and 3 the Slide activates almost instantly.
@@joeystarr1273 that's why its advance
The summersault kills your momentum because it was intended as a cancel. I used it a lot growing up, especially on levels like Sky Rail (although that was technically Shadow, but same moveset), and have always been surprised by how many people DIDN'T do this.
I believe it served the same purpose in Advance, but I also forgot about that game until you brought it up so I can't be sure. That said, you're 100% right it shouldn't have been on the same button as the ring dash.
Nativefalls forgotten intro😢😢
That's the cost tiktok made. Videos gotta be faster for thr algorithm.
@@Nativefall we need it back
@@Nativefall if you ever bring back the intro, please don't remove any of the letters
@@OOFMAJOR Lol the intro is fine. It will come back I just wanted people to be instantly engaged on this video
Badnik Bouncing is a forgotten mechanic last seen in Sonic Colors and the Classic games. It was dominant in speedruns and I would like to see it return.
maybe add aim assist instead of homing attack?
Badnik bouncing is in frontiers but it kills all your momentum.
@@aqilbinhamzah but what if you’re trying to jump over an enemy, and aim assists changes your trajectory towards the enemy? Idk, that could cause problems
It's in Generations too
@@P0tatoz9 Maybe use a button to activate the aim assist.
I actually really like how they did the grind rail jumping mechanic in Shadow the Hedgehog. There was a risk involved because it would make you move *really* fast.
It's technically not a lost mechanic, but the minor variation with how the jump dash was handled in the Advance/Rush games is my favourite move that Sonic has ever had. It's effectively the perfect offensive and speed technique, where the lack of a delay (and the shoulder button placement in the case of Rush) makes Sonic intuitive and easy to maneuver while still demanding some challenge to master. The three small hops/jump dashes required to reach max speed are so much fun to execute, and the lack of a visual stimuli when using the dash as a homing attack requires you to play the game with a clear idea of where you want Sonic to go.
One mechanic I would like to see brought back for a Sonic game is Time Travel like in Sonic CD. I feel like it could allow for some new storytelling and gameplay opportunities to be explored that they couldn’t do back then, especially within the open world.
And alt themes for the same level-
Talking about the sweep kick and it's potential as a combat move, look no further than Shadow's sweep kick in his campaign in P06. That sweep kick is what it should have been in terms of range and usability (although, I would make it's range much more smaller as an AoE attack for Sonic, since he's a more Speed focused character)
Edit: Btw, nice Doom sound effects there!
I'm sure there are more forgetten mechanics considering the amount of Sonic games that exist, but for now I wanna talk about the ones in the video a little bit.
-So the somersault is actually pretty useful in Advance 1 specifically because it kills your momentum, which sounds strange for a Sonic game but believe me, sometimes you need a way to stop on a dime and this move is a godsent for that.
-the sweep is... the move of all time.
-ledge grabbing is the most "no shit" inclusion for a Sonic game, and only 2 games have it. Why?
-the drift... oh boy. Look the move looks cool but it's completely unnecessary, it was there as a workaround for turning rather than something with depth into it.
-rail balancing is cool in concept, but it just feels so clunky, maybe that's an issue because of the Battle ports but still, I'm fine without it but can rails PLEASE have some sort of physics to them?
-Advance speedboost or whatever it's called is DESPERATELY needed, easily one of Sonic's best mechanics. In fact, Kishimoto has said on Twitter that he's considering dropping the boost for the next game, if he does that and doesn't replace it with this mechanic instead I'll be extremely disappointed.
I do understand why a lot of people don't like Boost Sonic, but for me personally, my favorite games are all Modern 3D Sonic Boost games like Generations and Colors, mainly because the Boost is a mechanic that allows sonic to be what I always envisioned; a hypersonic force of nature. Seriously, the Unleashed Project for Generations gives us the amazing day stages from Unleashed without any of that Werehog or Medals bs, and the whole point of them is boosting, meaning you're basically meant to go Mach speed 100% of the time, which is something that I absolutely love doing as my whole reason for playing sonic games is the whole "speed" thing.
The drift wasn't a workaround, it was a way of giving the player more control without giving them too much, if you get what I mean. The last 3 mainline sonic games at the time all had a bit of an issue with turning when sonic was going super fast:
In Heroes, sonic was super twitchy and slippery because he was ridiculously fast and could turn ridiculously quickly. That causes running in a straight line to be a lot more of a task than it really need to be. Then in Shadow the game, they made shadow even faster than he and sonic were in heroes (You could actually say it was SA1 that was the beginning of this twitchy movement issue, since heroes and shadow are built off of those physics and controls, just that they made sonic faster, but as sonic was considerably slower in those games (unless you're spamdashing) and you don't do quite as much running in a straight line to begin with, it's less of an issue there than it is in heroes and shadow)
In '06, everyone is dirt slow, so turning while running isn't much of a problem, (not to mention that there's less of the giant stretches of land that are completely non-automated that are super prevalent in Heroes,) however, during Mach speed sections, Sonic's turning gets absolutely shafted into oblivion because he moves at boost game speeds and is completely unable to reduce his speed (via player input anyhow).
So in unleashed, since sonic is going to be running at stupid insane speeds at pretty much all times, rather than automating sharp turns (forces), they give sonic a button to press that allows him to shrink his turning radius.
It kinda makes people think of sonic in unleashed and gens as a car, but for the gameplay they were trying to achieve, I think it's a pretty fair solution.
The move in Lost World isn't really the somersault, its the Roll. Rather than an attack, the Roll is a mobility option designed to handle terrain like sticky goop and ice. The Roll's controls and speed will remain consistent regardless of the terrain, which helps get through the goop in particular. For the ice though, just walking is fine. It also doesn't have a limited period of time, you can keep rolling around for as long as you want. On account of having entirely different functionality, it probably deserves to be a separate ability. It definitely does work for what its intended for, even if that intention is extremely difficult to parse, and it isn't an active detriment like the somersault is in hindering one's ability to spindash. So, probably like, C or B? Its reliant on mobility restraining terrain for it to have any use case, which isn't a very fun mechanic in general, so I'd probably lean more to C
I'd like to add three more:
First, the Midair Spin Attack from Triple Trouble. Pressing jump in midair after bouncing off a spring or walking off a ledge causes him to curl into a ball briefly to attack enemies. I'd put this under A tier because while it can save you from a lot of cheap shots, it's not as versatile as Advance's trick system.
Super Peel-Out from CD. It's just the modern Spin Dash, just without the spin. Granted, the fact that Sonic runs instead of rolls means that he actually has traction, and if you need to attack you can just tap down, but I'd put this under C tier.
Finally, the Strike Dash from Triple Trouble. Imagine the Super Peel-Out, but with momentary invincibility at the start of the dash, doubling this as an attack. I can see how this would've been useful for the screen crunch of the Game Gear, but otherwise it's just a better Peel-Out with a less exciting animation. Putting this at C tier.
With that thumbnail I thought you were gonna talk about actual mechanics, as in their profession😂. Came here expecting some in-depth analysis of Tekno the Canary, OG Cliff from Rise of Lyric, Rotor etc, how dare you bait me like that I won't be able to recover from this!!!!!
Ledge grabbing was in Shadow the Hedgehog as well.
What about the water skipping from triple trouble that needs to come back that was so satisfying to pull off
Sonic Advance 2 really had some of the best mechanics in the series huh
Definitely style points from adventure 2 and 06. Rewarding combo chains, taking harder routes that might not necessarily be faster, going out of your way to do tricky jumps like in pyramid cave. It greatly adds to the variety of getting ranks in stages beyond simply beating it with a specific time.
you forgot his instant transmission ability from Sonic 06, obtained through walking into the wrong rock
Oh thats a based one
Do you mean like the sky gem?
@@crimsonzone8984 I think they talk about some of these slingshot glitches that shot you at crazy speed halfway across the stage.
I can't wait when Sonic Team brings back all these mechanics because they will totally remember them...
Idk if it would count, but I'd say that the bounce was somewhat forgotten.
I do love the crawl mechanic, is pointless but feels so accurate (and funny) to use to pass a tightspace when he is just started moving.
Outside of all the moves in games like Sonic Battle. One mechanic I’m surprised I haven’t see mentioned at all is the Sonic Wind/Tornado since it was an ability he had stuck with from the Adventure era up to Sonic Rush.
Yeah those wind elements on sonic needs to come back.
It's not the the same but the Cyloop mechanic is pretty close to it.
@@crimsonzone8984 Well a wind aesthetic he does have in this game.
If I had to get ANY mechanic back, I'd want the Jump Dash from Adventure to Shadow the Hedgehog back, or maybe make the Air Boost like the Jump Dash. Seeing it used in Speedruns (Especially P-06's ability to refresh the jump dash with other moves), I would honestly want something like that, or a means to refresh your Air Boost in a way that makes it enticing to master in order to give skill ceilings to the games again.
Another one I'd wanna see back is the Triangle Jump, but mix it with the Parkour of Lost World to give some interesting timing-based risk/reward platforming.
The LedgeGrab fuction was also inside of "Shadow the Hedgehog" as well.
11:08 as someone from the future I can confirm that all wars were ended after the cool flip was brought back.
The super peel-out is....a mechanic too in the hit game sonic CD
I think it can be pretty cool to have a move that gives you maximum speed especially in an open zone-styled game.Maybe it can be changed to were it's charged WHILE walking/running so you don't have to stop everytime you wanna do it and if you hit ANYTHING you loose all of your rings that would be kinda interesting
I wonder how Grindrail balancing would feel like in a modern Sonic game also wouldn’t Sonic Lost World’s parkour system be considered forgotten as well?
The crawl having momentum is mad 💀
Man, I got pretty disappointed WHEN YOU DIDN'T POINT OUT SONIC RUSH HAVING THE TRICKS
why Sonic Rush so underrated 😞
Really though, I think tricks were more important in Rush since that's how Blaze could keep with Sonic at times. While Sonic was faster, Blaze had this end of trick dash that shot her in a pretty far distance. If I knew this when I was younger, I would've destroyed a cousin of mine that wouldn't pick anyone but Sonic cause his excuse was "It's my game and I want to play Sonic."
This was actually a good idea.
Hell yeah make a part 2.
A mechanic I haven't seen come back that I would love to see back in a new sonic title would be the Super-peel-out-figure-8-infinity-sign-dash that I've only seen the fan games do in 3D and Mania do in 2D, It could be a big time saver and a cool way to gain maximum speed quickly in a 3d environment like frontiers, as long as you don't get hit that is.
4:07 Just a small reminder the Hedgehog Engine is a lighting engine, it doesn't affect gameplay (unless you count the pop in in Frontiers)
Sonic’s never become a human. I mean, he got brainwashed into thinking he was a human once in Sonic the Comic, but that was just a hallucination.
Love you videos nativefall! One of the best sonictubers
aw thanks
Bro, how are these videos so good!?
What about the flying duo thing? Tails being able to carry Sonic, it's still in the classics but non-existent in modern.
One thing that’s worth noting is that the ledge grab was in Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric. And it worked very well
With grind rail balancing it was so forgotten that the developers didn't even think to test it in Battle, causing Battle's implementation to be extremely sensitive to even the slightest nudge of the analog stick
the sweep from unleashed is mainly meant for hub worlds, which is why generations removed it
and crawling is for passing slide obstacles faster if you don't make them, since backing up and running for a slide is tedious, and sliding from a standstill takes just as long
BOUNCE BOUNCE BOUNCE BOUNCE!!! SONIC BUT BALLIN BUT HE'S HE BALL AND HE CAUSES DESTRUCTION IN HIS WAKE!!!
Don't forget the tornado he creates in Sonic Heroes
Bro rickrolled us, in the bottom right corner at 1:10 there is a very tiny Rickroll gif playing. Lmaooooo
Right when he says ring dash
In regards to rail balancing, I do like being able to boost to go faster, so I think it'd be the most fun if you were required to balance in order to stay on the rail, but you could still choose to boost, making it faster but harder to balance. Like when you turn a corner with speed in a car.
The sweep is a shorter slide. To get out of the slide, you need to jump, while the sweep finishes on it's own and allows you to continue maintaining speed
Balance grind actually sounds like a pain in the ass. You die just from forgetting what you look like on a rail of all things.
Sonic’s slowed down time before but what if he had a bullet time/ultra instinct kinda thing? He’d sneeze like he does in lore and for a brief moment, all the chaos around him slows to a crawl while he still moves in normal time.
Grinding mechanic should be the way it is in Spark 3, where you crouch while going down on a rail to gain and maintaining speed
I really like the spring tricks from Advance 2 and the Tag Actions from Advance 3
Sonic Adventure 2's Magic Gloves for sonic. I always found them unless since you can only get them after getting the flame bracelet.
Oh and to add to the summersault, after pressing the actions button twice to do the summersault, hitting jump at the right time makes sonic/shadow jump back a bit.
I would put the ledge garb in A, because when ever I tried to just jump while touching the wall, Sonic almost always does a ledge grab and completely killed the speed
I remember two forgotten mechanics from Sonic games that I really miss one is from SA2 the doble jump, and in Generations when Sonic used to break dance at the end of each level
Sonic breakfasting isn't a game mechanic
@@ALegendaryBlueHedge Indeed, it's more of a victory pose
Not a Sonic mechanic but while playing as Knuckles with certain partner combinations in Sonic Advance 3 you could cling to a wall and spindash up it. Perfect, no changes, bring back Knuckles and his wall spindash please.
being able to triangle jump anywhere would be nice. and even run on the wall like shadow in his game would be tight.
Triangle Jumps in Heroes felt pretty neat, specially once you realize they were inspired by CD's intro, that version of the wall jump wouldn't return until Sonic Lost World, big fan of how it feels like an improvement in the 3DS version (it was also in Shadow the Hedgehog, but that version felt nerfed, even if technically less limited)
Of course, one would need only tap an action button for the insta Shield, hold it without directional input for the drop dash, and hold it with directional input for something called an aero dash, which one sufficiently charged up can be released in any direction facing somewhat forwards for a ludicrous airborne burst of speed in that given direction.
I feel like the somersault slide, the crawl and the sweep slide all try solve the same problem, but with a lot less regard for conserving momentum. Getting through a crawl space and conserving momentum, and a quick momentum change from a slow speed or movement cancel maybe shouldn't be tied to the same action. taking a page from quake 3 might help, the crouch would let you keep the momentum you've built up in a slide, but can let you get out of it fairly quickly again to build your speed back up.
8:54 Silly Sonic, you can't escape the black mouse icon.
Multiple mechanics? I thought Tails was his only mechanic
I like the sweep in sonic unleashed because I really like the idea of useless moves that serve no other purpose other than making sonic look cool while blasting through the level. like that rail hop that sonic can do for no reason at all.
Also I wish they brought back the rail balance thing. but fixed the way it works so it feels much tighter.
adventure sonic, the srb2 mod did readd the ledgegrab and it saved me so many times in eggrock zone 2
i can imagine tricks in combat working like the quick step in Xenoverse 2
I have no clue what you'd call this but in Sonic Rush's boss stages there was a mechanic where the more hits you took from the boss the farther and quicker your rings would scatter, it was a pretty smart way to lower the cheapness of the "one ring rule" in boss encounters where you could just tank as much damage as possible with no consequence. As far as I can tell this was abandoned after the Rush games, unfortunate too because most of Rush's bosses were pretty lame ngl.
Forgotten Sonic Mechanic: momentum physics.
I hope in the next game, sega brings back the Unleashed style qte's. I'm surprised u didn't bring it up during the section when you talked about air tricks to keep momentum and reaching faster routes. The Unleashed qte's always felt satisfying to pull off, and I think it would be a great, fun mechanic to bring back.
Here’s another forgotten mechanic: pushing and pulling.
I'd like to see the Heroes tornado attack brought back in some capacity.
Ay yo lets talk about how the boost and spindash co-existed in Sonic Rush, also the "perfect homing attack system". Nice vid tho
sega keeps forgetting
even the characters gets forgotten all the time
well I feel stupid, I never thought of jumping over the drift pats
I loved SA2 grinding, I think it's the best, well the DC is the best one
Sonics forgotten mechanics: Momentum
oh god
The Dropdash feels like a Replacement for the Summersault.
i remember seeing somebody use the sweep while standing on a metal box in sonic 06 and it made them fly into the sky infinitely, lmao
It's an interesting video, but just out of curiosity... was this done in Tier Maker? if so i would like the link to the template, i would like to put together one on this subject based on my opinion
6:18 Bro decided to use gravity on Sonic's soul ☠
The parkour system from Lost World. While it wasn't the best thing in the world it's pretty fun when it worked. And I feel Sega missed a huge opportunity by not implementing the parkour system into Frontiers.
Just imagine instead of having to use grind rails and bumpers in order to get anywhere on the islands you could run/climb on the walls like you can in other games like Spiderman or Prototype.
Frontiers was intended to have freeform drifting, but 1: They couldn't get it to control right by release (you can tell in that drift Cyberspace mission that it feels like garbage) and 2: It had very few real use cases in the game.
I want Sonic to run on water again, baffling that it wasn't reintroduced in Frontiers
Ledge grab is in Shadow the Hedgehog too, if anyone cares
How did you get Sonic Dash 2 to play in widescreen?
To be fair to the Adventure 2 somersault, accidentally using it instead of a ring dash is more on the devs for putting every action on one button.
I was expecting the super Peel out to be on this list
Talks about the drift leaving Colors outside the mix
Is there another source for the Windows sound effect cat meme at the end, or is this video the only place it exists?
Ledge grab is a god move all hail ledge grab.
Momentum, spindash, bounce
What is the game shown at 10:19 ? I don't recognize it
The sweep was the best one
Idk if this is a forgotten mechanic but the one thing I like brought back is mach speed from 06 since it really feels more of a evolution than the boost from previous games since at best speed is shown as a gimmick from previous games and the skill from mach speed is more for maintaining that speed from those split second decisions and the mach speed sections are more spectacle than the boost
The sweep was very useful for me when there's many enemies close which happens a lot in DLC or with super small enemies like the Combot hands :T
As enemies there are more violent than any Sonic Game and comes right at you even if you can Homing Attack or Stomp over them
Tails looks tired af in the thumbmail
somersault is only useful for breaking boxes obstructing your path that are too close to bottomless pits or something and you really do not want the extra speed of spin dash to break those boxes.
what about that one scrapped sonic 2 mechanic when you hit a wall sonic bounces off and being sad a little
0:08 You _know_ he got called a goombah in school
Dont forget about the Triangle Jump from Heroes
I feel like boost and automation is what killed a large amount of good mechanics
Boost Mode and rail physics (or any physics) really need to come back.
If you got played Sonic Colors, when you press B in a pushing box, Sonic will spin in mid-air and kick it far away...
Ngl summersault and slide shouldn’t exist point blank period. Sonic’s whole design is that he’s an animal that CURLS INTO A BALL-the spindash already does this as an attack and has helped him get into tight spaces so why they felt the need to complicate/slow down things is beyond me
The somersault can heck off, but personally, I think the slide could still be implemented, specifically as a braking mechanic for the spin dash/rolling. Extend the foot, slow down the roll; maybe have a little more control with the same amount of power!
Damn man why is NOBODY talking about the triangle jump from Heroes? I think that mechanic would would work really well with the boost formula