I have had my own catch phrase for this....... "If you can't afford a new Mercedes, you cannot afford to maintain a USED Mercedes..... you just are not in the right tax bracket"
A friend of mine works on Porsche and always says there are only 2 types of customers. The ones who say “Why does it cost so much?” And the others who say “Why isn’t it done yet?”
I've been an Indy tech who specializes in mercedes since 1981. You are spot on with the tier description, and tactfully left out the tier 4 "posers" that drag in a shipwreck they "got a really good deal on"
TIER 3 CUSTOMERS ARE ALL THE SAME REGARDLESS OF THE MAKE OF CAR THEY DRIVE. IT COSTS TOO MUCH, YOU'RE RIPPING ME OFF, THE SHOP DOWN THE ROAD SAID I PAID TOO MUCH, AND EVER SINCE YOU REPLACED MY STOP LIGHT BULB MY BRAKE PEDAL GOES TO THE FLOOR!!! I CALL THE TIER 3 CUSTOMERS NO WIN CUSTOMERS. YOU'RE BETTER OFF WITHOUT THEM. NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, YOU CAN NOT MAKE THEM HAPPY.
Makes all that dealer training worth a lot less when you can't find decent customers. We decided this year to stop working on almost all European vehicles and it has been great not having to deal with the shenanigans that the customers try to pull.
I drive an Alfa Romeo, do you think I drive it for a status symbol? Hell no, most people have no idea what Alfa an is. I drive it for it's pure driving dynamics, one of the best driving cars EVER.
I don't have that problem. I have bad customers (very very few) I end up refusing but not makes. I hate the customers that agree on a price then sit there for 30 mins after the vechile is done and say that's the best price you can do. The cars freaking done negotiations are out the window. I work on everything from RVs to Mercedes. Usually if i have a bad customer I'll just say im busy call in 3 weeks but, I had 1 customer I told don't come back. He had the car towed for a start stall and no start at times. Some hoodlums broke in and stole his battery (they cut the cables). He had 2 other shops look at it. The one refused it because electrical diagnostic wasn't there strong point. The other shop spent 3 hrs trying to bypass the security system. The got the car to start but it stall when put in gear. They charged him 380$ and left it as that. He brings it to me and with the systems I was leaning towards a power or ground (when you hit the wipers doors would try and lock radio would go out or if you hit the brakes the car would stall) the customer insurance contacting me because now he wanted to file a claim. I told the insurance company that I had a good ideal and don't believe the bill would get over 400 and most likely a minimum of 200. They said to keep them informed. The insurance company most of told him it would most likely not be over his $500 deductible so basically not a good ideal to file a claim.. After the diag I found the ASD relay ground was broken from when they stole the battery. It was in the loom so you couldn't see it. It took me 30mins to diag and fix that repair another 20 mins to rerun battery cables (power and ground). The other shop just taped together battery cables SMH. Then It took me 2 hrs removing the dash and pulling my hair out undoing the other shops so called bypass. They had a mess. So his bill ended up being 280$ and the car was fixed. The guy sat there for a hr begging me to lower the bill to 200$ because "I knew his circumstances that the other shop ripped him off for $380". I couldn't figure out where he got 200$ from because he was so stern on 200$. Then I remember telling him and the insurance company that it would most likely be between $200 and no more then $400 worst case. It got so bad I had to have my other mechanic bill him because I was losing my cool. I never seen a grown man act like that. He owned 2 convenience stores so I'm sure he had money.
We have a few Middle Eastern people up here in Michigan that pull that crap. (Sorry, it's not all ME people but it is just the ME people doing it) We started requiring a couple of them to pay a deposit up front.
@@meabob that's exactly what it was. I have the same issue. It either goes 2 ways amazing customers or absolutely the worst. It's never in between. Always trying to get something for free. I'm in Cleveland OH. The shop up the street I do diag work for has the same issue. He charges a extra 50$ so when they ask for a deal he drops it by 30$ and you think they hit the lottery how happy they are. In reality they pay a extra 20$ for the hassle. I'm not even joking true story
I just generally hate European cars in general. Just doing the oil changes and tires on in alone. Lugstuds should be banned by the Geneva Convention. I'm just a oil/tire tech at Firestone at this point.
Working on a lot of Euro is just a pain in the ass in general. From using different types of fasteners than the rest of the planet or trying to reinvent the wheel with every part on the car. I hate working on Eurotrash!
@@meabob truth. I was working at Saturn when the Astra was released (rebadged Opel). If I recall correctly, at least 25 boxes of specialty tools just for those!
Yeah. They over engineer everything. And you need specialty tools for everything and changes every 4 or 5 years. It's ridiculous . You have to take apart half the vehicle to get anything done. I just love the fact that you don't have a drain plug or dipstick anymore on most Euros. And if beamers are so great why is there resale value so bad?.
The POWER OF NO comes to mind. i just refused a repair on a HIGH DOLLAR RV because customer refused to allow me to diag and find root cause of no boost situation. RV had been to 5 repair shops prior to me seeing it ,customer just want to put a turbo on it with no diag AINT HAPPENING If i was to put turbo and it dont work guess who gets the blame? not this guy!
Yeah, no matter what you tell them before replacing a part it is ALWAYS your fault. “Sir, if you would like me to replace this part based on your assumptions/“diagnosis” and it doesn’t fix it the cost is on you”. The customer hears “ OK, no problem, we will replace this part and it will be fixed.....forever.”
@@ronjohnson8119 I have literally have had the customer hand right a release of responsibility for parts swapping only to have them totally freak out and say i misrepsented the facts so its still my problem to fix.🤦♂️
I call tier 3's car rich people... they're the people who have no money but buy an expensive car to pretend they do. I had a guy with a 08 Mercedes Benz S63 AMG he thought he bought for a steal... turned out the original owner drove it hard and put it back wet. Needed a new ABC pump, new front struts, new valve blocks front and back. Was going to cost him no joke 20k to fix it and he flipped his lid and said he doesn't believe me.. I told him he can go elsewhere then and to have a nice day. I get alot of mercedes benz owners and have learned to screen out the cheap asses from the good paying ones. And also never use aftermarket parts in these cars. And never accept parts from customers. You'll get burned bad. I had another guy who wanted me to install his customer supplied parts from rock auto... nope
A lot of times, Mommy and Daddy buy a "Bennie" or a "Beamer" then give it to their kid when he/she turns 16. The kid drives it through high school then maybe to college. The vehicle is neglected until it breaks down. At that point, the parents fix what is absolutely necessary to make it driveable then they put a FOR SALE sign on it. They sell it cheap to someone who knows no better and has no money. Then we get to hear the screams when they get the estimate.
The rate at some of these euro cars depreciate puts them within reach of people that shouldn’t own them. What I tell people is look at the original sticker price, it may cost you 20k for the car but sticker was 65k. So your going to have a maintenance bill for a 65k car not a 20k.
We all have to pick our specialty. I personally like working on GM and Ford. It's what I have J-Boxes and factory scan tool software for. I stay away from Hybrids, Euro, and Toyota. I mean I will do and oil change or basic repair, but when it gets deep, I have to move on. I did a 2004 Porsche the other day. I needed a radiator fan. An aftermarket Doorman fan for the thing was like $850. I typically eat the part if I diagnose it wrong. Ended up getting a used fan from a junk yard for $250, and I called it right, but I was sweating it.
Here at vw in lower alabama, 80% of our paycheck is warranty. And we take good care of our warranty customers. Repairing stuff they don't even complain about. 15% are buy here pay here trash, repose, start stop and roll customers. The last 5% are the once a year all the maintinance never a issue customers. 100k miles and haven't even had an oil leak or failed coil. No carbon issue customers. We bend over backwards for these customers.
Even though I work at an Audi dealer, we due get our fair share of tier 3. It’s usually some body who has no idea how much European is to maintain. They go out and buy some older beat up A8 or something of that level off of marketplace or Craigslist, bring it to us for some (what they think) is a minor electrical issue. Then we figure out it needs a $1,500 module or a new harness or whatever, and then the freak out begins. I feel bad for our service writers because they always take the brunt of it. Usually even though I work on Audi, when someone asks me about a deal on an Audi they found online. I usually respond with “run away.” “Have you thought about a nice Honda or Toyota.”
Could not agree more. I ended up leaving the BMW dealership here and switching to Subaru because all of our tier one and two customers had a warranty. By the time the car was out of warranty it was on its 3rd or 4th owner and they didn't have the money to repair it.
Great video! Hit the nail on the head, really the teir system goes for all manufacturers but really makes a difference with the Euros or older cars. Nothing like braking a discontinued part!!
100% true. Most shops only get tier 3 for euro cars and they have let so much go that you don’t know where to start. Plus a lot of shops don’t get that those cars require special tools and take more time to diagnose than a corolla.
even when i worked at mercedes dealership we still had those type of customers it boggles my mind why do you buy a high end brand car if you cant afford the repairs these people have no brains. cheers 🍻
We have Mercedes owners come into the auto parts store to buy our cheapest brake pads and will ask "why so much? They don't like my answer when I say "because you bought a Mercedes".
What I meant was funny is these people that go get a BMW or Mercedes or something like that at the Auction. Then they say “look at the deal I got on this, I’m an important person now!” Lol
Great video here interesting you found a flood car I’ve seen some information about those and they get back out into the world. That might make an interesting video, maybe, when shops come across a flood car.
So many people out of touch with what the total cost of ownership is on these, all they see is a used fancy car for a great price. They don't think about why its for sale so cheap.
I'm VW/Audi dealer tech, at the VW dealer there was Rover jag right next to us, like to thru the shop door next to us, and they are the absolute worst, since Tata bought em out, it's become even worse. Total pieces
I worked at an Infiniti dealer for 25 years, 75% of the customers were tier 3, 20% tier 2 and maybe 5% tier 1. The dealer sold the Infiniti franchise and changed to a MINI dealer in the same location. I stayed on and became a MINI tech. MINI customers are opposite of Inffinti, 75% of the customers are tier 1, 20% are tier 2 and 5% are tier 3. IMO it's about expectations and the desire to own the marque. Late model Japanese car buyers expect perfection and everything to be covered by warranty and don't really feel attached to their cars. MINI car buyers LOVE their cars, understand they are high maintenance and are willing to spend the money to keep the car running. It blew my mind after 25 years of dealing with Infiniti tightwads.
I just quoted front and rear brake jobs on 2016 Corvette Z06. The fricking rotors were $400 each!!! That was dealer price. The aftermarket ones were $500 each. The guy didn't buy it. Said he just bought it and would take it back to the dealer for them to fix. I know the dealer he bought it from and I said "Good luck with that"
Ive made over 100k a year since I was 26 working at Mercedes-Benz. Its not for everybody but the ones that are great will make a great living. I think Mercedes-Benz vehicles are the easiest vehicles to work on, mainly because I've worked on them so long. But also because a 20 year old Mercedes comes apart so nice, no broken bolts and bolts rusted so bad that you can't even see what size they used to be. Working at Mercedes-Benz for 10 years i have broken probably 30 bolts ever being a heavy line tech turning 3500 hours a year. This is coming from a tech that lives in Minnesota where they use salt on the roads, the quality of the materials they use is top notch. Everyone has their niche and I think sticking to what you're good at and like doing is best for the tech and the customer! I love hearing independent shops saying they will not work on euro cars! Brings more people to the dealer, and the customer is getting a much better quality of service. At an independent shop is just not possible to work on all makes and have the same knowledge on a specific brand that a tech that only works on that brand has.
We have 4 Eurotrash cars in the field behind the shop right now. BMW, Mini Cooper and Mercedes. Timing chains, suspension issues, electrical wiring rot(as designed). Every customer stunned that they are expensive to fix, abandoned over diag fees alone. We had one with an interior falling apart, $10,000 to repair. Mercedes said it’s normal at 10-12 years old, biodegradable. Stop buying this trash if you don’t have money people...Tier 3 knuckleheads, always buy over 3 year old euro cars. Nothing a proper “estimate” won’t solve.
I have worked on one Land rover so far,change spark plugs in a Discovery.What a royal pita to get to the back 3 spark plugs.A few Volkswagons as well.nightmare to work on them.
I opened my own mobile repair, it didn't take long and I no longer work on euro trash. I get the tier 4 and 5 customers. And I couldn't take the , you fixed a coolant hose now my brake light doesn't work what did you do?!?! Us and Asian only, but no infinity!!
That makes sense. I always wondered why y’all didn’t work on Mercs and now I understand. Yeah, when these cars depreciate as much as they do people pick them up for next to nothing and then they realize why...and we get to be the punching bag.
This happened at Ford last week had a BMW come in for a headlight that needed a bulb well the bulbs are $150 each or somthing like that cause they were a special bulb and she didn’t wanna pay so we put her old ones back in!
Most euro makes do give you way more data to work with. I’ve always said that the Asian makes don’t give you much info but it’s easy to find, whereas the Euro makes give you tons of info but it is very hard to find, especially with VW/Audi. Good Lord do they make info hard to find with their wiring diagram “tracks” and “measuring values”.
Had a tier 3 customer with an Audi he just bought from a fly by night used car lot. It needed brakes all around, are estimate was 2k pads and rotors. He shit his pants then drove out grinding brakes. These are the same people that rent apartments and drive cars they can't afford smh
Since we don't have an European dealer within an hour of us we take all euros and our customers have been trained to understand their cars are expensive to fix
I like how you state the comeback ratio, this is a real situation , with real diagnosis, and real comebacks for completely separate faults with completely competent techs.
I've been a mechanic for 40 years here in the UK and I no longer work on those vehicles ether, expensive, fragile, and unreliable just like scotty kilmer says. Just be glad you don't have french cars out there at least I don't think you do
Lol yeah no Renaults here thank goodness! Europeans tourists are always surprised to see how many Japanese cars there are on our roads. We like em more than GM and Ford
And over here in Europe its the other way around, Us cars are expensive to maintain, parts are not readily accessible and when they are accessible they are super expensive. ;)
I had a 2018 Mercedes G550 AWD in last week. They just wanted to look under the vehicle before purchasing. When I had it in the air, I saw the front axle was nothing like anything I had ever seen. Big spheres at each wheel that looked like a ball and socket setup for steering knuckles. After they left I looked it up on Alldata and could not find any service info for this vehicle except for a couple of TSBs. This is the biggest reason I don't like working on European junk.
I think a lot of it depends on the area/ average income. I drive over an hour away to a wealthier area to get customers that are willing to fix their car
I live in Europe and my shop works on all brands. we have a bunch of tier 1 and 2 customers. We have a few tier 3 and 4 customers and they are all Lexus owners...
I'd say about 80% of our customers are tier 3, 15% are tier 2, and 5% are tier 1. The only euro dealer we have within 50 miles is VW, and everyone knows their service department is horrible. The management treats all tiers equally, and I'm salaried, so I don't worry about it. All that said, my main issue is when service information isn't available. It's nearly impossible to diagnose something if I don't know how it works.
Tier4 customers, we call them friends and family, they call you at any time and you have to work for them for free or cheaply ... and after all they will complaint :D
I have a friend who is a millionaire and drives a 20 year old pathfinder, he drops by periodically to have me check his tire pressure, when he tells me of an issue he’s having with his car, I don’t touch anything under the hood because it will crumble or disintegrate and he will blame me and bad mouth me to anyone who’ll listen, no thanks.
We don't work on euros at all. There is no dealers for them here and I think one specialty shop for euros. Since our city is small there is no market for euros so 90% of the euro cars here are several years old and are tier 3 customers.
If you work on level tear three jobs, you normally more nervous to work on and that's when things go wrong. Level one customers you normally have less things go wrong because you are not as nervous to work on.
If you cant afford it don't buy it,we all know European is expensive to maintain, part of the problem is the status symbol of the said cars and lack of ownership knowledge and them thinking were all con-man mechanics.
After running a repair shop on the other side of the Atlantic for few years this was funny. Obviously we did loads of European cars as well Japanese and KIAs and what have you. But when some Yankee PoS managed to get to us most techs would rather take a personal day than trying fix those. You don't get the parts from the normal suppliers, our scan tools get basic engine codes and that't it. No instructions on the software we use. We did get the tier one customers, but if a oil filter takes three days to order then it really doesn't matter with a walk-in.
My last eurotrash experience was a trans pan on a 2014 BMW X1. Was apprenticing at the time and had our shop’s euro guy help me out with proper procedure and torque specs. No joke, car came back THREE. TIMES. With the same leak in the SAME spot. Dealer bought them a new plastic pan, rubber gasket (pre installed in the pan) and fluid all three times. We never did figure out why it did it. Note that I was working in Used Car at a Subaru Dealer so Euro’s were weird to us, minus for our euro guy.
I will only work on European cars using factory parts only. If they beg and plead to use cheaper parts, I normally say no, but if I agree, I offer zero warranty of any kind on the work. That being said, I still rarely work on them. It's to much hassle.
Same here in the south. You tend to get a lot of low income ...some might say trash/ghetto.. that go out to those used car lots in the low income area and buys a BMW or Jag in cash and they 1st always take it to the local "guy" they know then to a "local" shop.. that just changes parts and then the dealer or a shop with a high reputation. Then they pay w/e the diag is and tow it out to fix it themselves.
I as well stopped euro car diagnostic and major repairs at my shop. Really not worth the headache and the money is not there. But yes...I might bend over on customers I know that I trust that won't screw me over. I always warn customer who brings me these cars or buy them used and looks like crap...sorry don't work on them. I might have lost that euro income...but trust me you'll sleep better at night. I usually send them to a reputable all euro shop so I don't look like a douchebag. atleast the customer will appreciate it...sometimes just helping them brings more jobs that's not euro from them.
What codes are you getting on that Audi? Make sure they did get a recalled for the fuel rails. If the dealer didn't put back the lower intake runner right you will get a stuck open code for the runners. Also check the vacuum hose at the water pump. If they didn't put that hose back you will get a codes for intake runner close. Let me know? And, one more thing was there is one solenoid that controls both runners.
One solenoid, it was checked, not my first rodeo on these, someone had the intake/sc off recently. As i wrote in the video it was a flood car so we shipped it without any repairs
I have had my own catch phrase for this....... "If you can't afford a new Mercedes, you cannot afford to maintain a USED Mercedes..... you just are not in the right tax bracket"
Great line. I have used this line after hearing from you couple of times.
A friend of mine works on Porsche and always says there are only 2 types of customers. The ones who say “Why does it cost so much?” And the others who say “Why isn’t it done yet?”
Yeah those type of people want you to grab your wrench 🔧 and be superman
Yep! I’m looker for the latter customer !!
I've been an Indy tech who specializes in mercedes since 1981. You are spot on with the tier description, and tactfully left out the tier 4 "posers" that drag in a shipwreck they "got a really good deal on"
You just made me realize that 95% of my customers are tier 3....
Tier 4 actually Jonathon;)
@@flatratemaster 😩😭😭
TIER 3 CUSTOMERS ARE ALL THE SAME REGARDLESS OF THE MAKE OF CAR THEY DRIVE. IT COSTS TOO MUCH, YOU'RE RIPPING ME OFF, THE SHOP DOWN THE ROAD SAID I PAID TOO MUCH, AND EVER SINCE YOU REPLACED MY STOP LIGHT BULB MY BRAKE PEDAL GOES TO THE FLOOR!!! I CALL THE TIER 3 CUSTOMERS NO WIN CUSTOMERS. YOU'RE BETTER OFF WITHOUT THEM. NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, YOU CAN NOT MAKE THEM HAPPY.
Makes all that dealer training worth a lot less when you can't find decent customers. We decided this year to stop working on almost all European vehicles and it has been great not having to deal with the shenanigans that the customers try to pull.
People who generally buy a vehicle as a status symbol generally are bad customers? Color me shocked.
I drive an Alfa Romeo, do you think I drive it for a status symbol? Hell no, most people have no idea what Alfa an is.
I drive it for it's pure driving dynamics, one of the best driving cars EVER.
I don't have that problem. I have bad customers (very very few) I end up refusing but not makes. I hate the customers that agree on a price then sit there for 30 mins after the vechile is done and say that's the best price you can do. The cars freaking done negotiations are out the window. I work on everything from RVs to Mercedes.
Usually if i have a bad customer I'll just say im busy call in 3 weeks but, I had 1 customer I told don't come back. He had the car towed for a start stall and no start at times. Some hoodlums broke in and stole his battery (they cut the cables). He had 2 other shops look at it. The one refused it because electrical diagnostic wasn't there strong point. The other shop spent 3 hrs trying to bypass the security system. The got the car to start but it stall when put in gear. They charged him 380$ and left it as that. He brings it to me and with the systems I was leaning towards a power or ground (when you hit the wipers doors would try and lock radio would go out or if you hit the brakes the car would stall) the customer insurance contacting me because now he wanted to file a claim. I told the insurance company that I had a good ideal and don't believe the bill would get over 400 and most likely a minimum of 200. They said to keep them informed. The insurance company most of told him it would most likely not be over his $500 deductible so basically not a good ideal to file a claim.. After the diag I found the ASD relay ground was broken from when they stole the battery. It was in the loom so you couldn't see it. It took me 30mins to diag and fix that repair another 20 mins to rerun battery cables (power and ground). The other shop just taped together battery cables SMH. Then It took me 2 hrs removing the dash and pulling my hair out undoing the other shops so called bypass. They had a mess. So his bill ended up being 280$ and the car was fixed. The guy sat there for a hr begging me to lower the bill to 200$ because "I knew his circumstances that the other shop ripped him off for $380". I couldn't figure out where he got 200$ from because he was so stern on 200$. Then I remember telling him and the insurance company that it would most likely be between $200 and no more then $400 worst case. It got so bad I had to have my other mechanic bill him because I was losing my cool. I never seen a grown man act like that. He owned 2 convenience stores so I'm sure he had money.
We have a few Middle Eastern people up here in Michigan that pull that crap. (Sorry, it's not all ME people but it is just the ME people doing it) We started requiring a couple of them to pay a deposit up front.
@@meabob that's exactly what it was. I have the same issue. It either goes 2 ways amazing customers or absolutely the worst. It's never in between. Always trying to get something for free. I'm in Cleveland OH. The shop up the street I do diag work for has the same issue. He charges a extra 50$ so when they ask for a deal he drops it by 30$ and you think they hit the lottery how happy they are. In reality they pay a extra 20$ for the hassle. I'm not even joking true story
I just generally hate European cars in general. Just doing the oil changes and tires on in alone. Lugstuds should be banned by the Geneva Convention. I'm just a oil/tire tech at Firestone at this point.
Working on a lot of Euro is just a pain in the ass in general. From using different types of fasteners than the rest of the planet or trying to reinvent the wheel with every part on the car. I hate working on Eurotrash!
AMEN!!!! (I'm not even religious)
@@meabob truth. I was working at Saturn when the Astra was released (rebadged Opel). If I recall correctly, at least 25 boxes of specialty tools just for those!
Yeah. They over engineer everything. And you need specialty tools for everything and changes every 4 or 5 years. It's ridiculous . You have to take apart half the vehicle to get anything done. I just love the fact that you don't have a drain plug or dipstick anymore on most Euros. And if beamers are so great why is there resale value so bad?.
People have Toyota money but want Mercedes status. They think it’s gonna cost just as much as a Toyota to fix.
The POWER OF NO comes to mind.
i just refused a repair on a HIGH DOLLAR RV
because customer refused to allow me to diag and find root cause of no boost situation.
RV had been to 5 repair shops prior to me seeing it ,customer just want to put a turbo on it with no diag
AINT HAPPENING
If i was to put turbo and it dont work guess who gets the blame?
not this guy!
Yeah, no matter what you tell them before replacing a part it is ALWAYS your fault. “Sir, if you would like me to replace this part based on your assumptions/“diagnosis” and it doesn’t fix it the cost is on you”. The customer hears “ OK, no problem, we will replace this part and it will be fixed.....forever.”
@@ronjohnson8119 I have literally have had the customer hand right a release of responsibility for parts swapping only to have them totally freak out and say i misrepsented the facts so its still my problem to fix.🤦♂️
I call tier 3's car rich people... they're the people who have no money but buy an expensive car to pretend they do. I had a guy with a 08 Mercedes Benz S63 AMG he thought he bought for a steal... turned out the original owner drove it hard and put it back wet. Needed a new ABC pump, new front struts, new valve blocks front and back. Was going to cost him no joke 20k to fix it and he flipped his lid and said he doesn't believe me..
I told him he can go elsewhere then and to have a nice day. I get alot of mercedes benz owners and have learned to screen out the cheap asses from the good paying ones. And also never use aftermarket parts in these cars. And never accept parts from customers. You'll get burned bad. I had another guy who wanted me to install his customer supplied parts from rock auto... nope
A lot of times, Mommy and Daddy buy a "Bennie" or a "Beamer" then give it to their kid when he/she turns 16. The kid drives it through high school then maybe to college. The vehicle is neglected until it breaks down. At that point, the parents fix what is absolutely necessary to make it driveable then they put a FOR SALE sign on it. They sell it cheap to someone who knows no better and has no money. Then we get to hear the screams when they get the estimate.
in that car owner situation i would get parts off a wreck and fix it myself, would be nice and cheap! :D
The rate at some of these euro cars depreciate puts them within reach of people that shouldn’t own them. What I tell people is look at the original sticker price, it may cost you 20k for the car but sticker was 65k. So your going to have a maintenance bill for a 65k car not a 20k.
We all have to pick our specialty. I personally like working on GM and Ford. It's what I have J-Boxes and factory scan tool software for. I stay away from Hybrids, Euro, and Toyota. I mean I will do and oil change or basic repair, but when it gets deep, I have to move on. I did a 2004 Porsche the other day. I needed a radiator fan. An aftermarket Doorman fan for the thing was like $850. I typically eat the part if I diagnose it wrong. Ended up getting a used fan from a junk yard for $250, and I called it right, but I was sweating it.
Why you stay away from Toyota?
Here at vw in lower alabama, 80% of our paycheck is warranty. And we take good care of our warranty customers. Repairing stuff they don't even complain about. 15% are buy here pay here trash, repose, start stop and roll customers. The last 5% are the once a year all the maintinance never a issue customers. 100k miles and haven't even had an oil leak or failed coil. No carbon issue customers. We bend over backwards for these customers.
Even though I work at an Audi dealer, we due get our fair share of tier 3. It’s usually some body who has no idea how much European is to maintain. They go out and buy some older beat up A8 or something of that level off of marketplace or Craigslist, bring it to us for some (what they think) is a minor electrical issue. Then we figure out it needs a $1,500 module or a new harness or whatever, and then the freak out begins. I feel bad for our service writers because they always take the brunt of it. Usually even though I work on Audi, when someone asks me about a deal on an Audi they found online. I usually respond with “run away.” “Have you thought about a nice Honda or Toyota.”
Yeap, if the car was worth it, they wouldn't be selling it.
We stopped doing land rover/Mercedes as well for the exact same reasons
Could not agree more. I ended up leaving the BMW dealership here and switching to Subaru because all of our tier one and two customers had a warranty. By the time the car was out of warranty it was on its 3rd or 4th owner and they didn't have the money to repair it.
At my dealer we get tier 3 customers so our cp jobs end up turning into warranty cause everyone in the front are a bunch of pansies
Ah Goodwill
I hate good will
Drive like a sport, pay like a sport is what I tell them.
Working at an independent European shop. You sneeze around the engine bay,something will break. 100%
Best thing about your channel is your honesty no bs thanks that’s what customers like me need good bad or ugly
Great video! Hit the nail on the head, really the teir system goes for all manufacturers but really makes a difference with the Euros or older cars. Nothing like braking a discontinued part!!
100% true. Most shops only get tier 3 for euro cars and they have let so much go that you don’t know where to start. Plus a lot of shops don’t get that those cars require special tools and take more time to diagnose than a corolla.
even when i worked at mercedes dealership we still had those type of customers it boggles my mind why do you buy a high end brand car if you cant afford the repairs these people have no brains. cheers 🍻
We have Mercedes owners come into the auto parts store to buy our cheapest brake pads and will ask "why so much? They don't like my answer when I say "because you bought a Mercedes".
Common parts for many older Mercedes models are no more than any other car. Got to avoid the newer editions of these.
You know what’s funny?
Any Euro car and the word Auction in the same sentence. 😂😂😂😂
LOL I do a lot of used vehicle recons. Most of the EuroTrash ends up going to auction or to wholesale.
What I meant was funny is these people that go get a BMW or Mercedes or something like that at the Auction. Then they say “look at the deal I got on this, I’m an important person now!” Lol
@@driver4x4truck63 THOSE PEOPLE NEED THAT BUMPER STICKER ON THEIR CHEAPER CAR THAT SAYS..." MY OTHER CAR IS A PIECE OF SHIT TOO."..
Truthfully, owning any European car outside of warranty is a bad financial decision. If you really must have one, lease, don't buy.
Great video here interesting you found a flood car I’ve seen some information about those and they get back out into the world. That might make an interesting video, maybe, when shops come across a flood car.
So many people out of touch with what the total cost of ownership is on these, all they see is a used fancy car for a great price. They don't think about why its for sale so cheap.
That goes for diesel trucks as well. Many people freak out when they get their first Duramax oil change on the great used truck they bought.
I drive an 08 ranger. There's a reason for that.
Wait... I work at a FORD Dealer and I get Tier 3 customers all the time!! "What do you mean it costs $XXXX to fix my Diesel!?"
Right on man,😁😁. They bought at buy here pay here by the skin of their teeth at 45%apr and they nothing left to pay for repairs. Tier 3.
Tier 3, aka BALLIN ON A BUDGET! This is more accurate than my Weatherby
Ha!! Who else gets it.
Main reason I don’t work on bmw and Mercedes is those tier 3 customers that don’t want to pay or complain etc
Even in Europe we don’t work on Jags 😂😂😂😂
I'm VW/Audi dealer tech, at the VW dealer there was Rover jag right next to us, like to thru the shop door next to us, and they are the absolute worst, since Tata bought em out, it's become even worse. Total pieces
Loud and clear, good point!
I totally agree with you on European cars. Especially Old Mercedes, BMW and VW Audi. Great stuff flat rate master.
Mike ever I started watching these videos its been costing meee moneyyy xD
Hey thank you for making this video i’m mostly a guy that works for my neighbors cars and I run into the same problem
I worked at an Infiniti dealer for 25 years, 75% of the customers were tier 3, 20% tier 2 and maybe 5% tier 1. The dealer sold the Infiniti franchise and changed to a MINI dealer in the same location. I stayed on and became a MINI tech. MINI customers are opposite of Inffinti, 75% of the customers are tier 1, 20% are tier 2 and 5% are tier 3. IMO it's about expectations and the desire to own the marque. Late model Japanese car buyers expect perfection and everything to be covered by warranty and don't really feel attached to their cars. MINI car buyers LOVE their cars, understand they are high maintenance and are willing to spend the money to keep the car running. It blew my mind after 25 years of dealing with Infiniti tightwads.
Infiniti is discount luxury so yep
The shop that I'm at services only domestics and the same applies to Cadillac, Corvette,and Lincoln owners.
I just quoted front and rear brake jobs on 2016 Corvette Z06. The fricking rotors were $400 each!!! That was dealer price. The aftermarket ones were $500 each. The guy didn't buy it. Said he just bought it and would take it back to the dealer for them to fix. I know the dealer he bought it from and I said "Good luck with that"
@@meabob i remember those cars came out i think with the Z07 option for a 4 wheel brake job and 4 tires was like 17k the price of a new cruze. lol
Great video
Ive made over 100k a year since I was 26 working at Mercedes-Benz. Its not for everybody but the ones that are great will make a great living. I think Mercedes-Benz vehicles are the easiest vehicles to work on, mainly because I've worked on them so long. But also because a 20 year old Mercedes comes apart so nice, no broken bolts and bolts rusted so bad that you can't even see what size they used to be. Working at Mercedes-Benz for 10 years i have broken probably 30 bolts ever being a heavy line tech turning 3500 hours a year. This is coming from a tech that lives in Minnesota where they use salt on the roads, the quality of the materials they use is top notch. Everyone has their niche and I think sticking to what you're good at and like doing is best for the tech and the customer! I love hearing independent shops saying they will not work on euro cars! Brings more people to the dealer, and the customer is getting a much better quality of service. At an independent shop is just not possible to work on all makes and have the same knowledge on a specific brand that a tech that only works on that brand has.
I spent 3 years in a BMW dealership. It was golden. I moved and I'm now in a JLR dealership. They are a nightmare.
On point with the jags had one in scanning codes and poww!! T stat housing blew up.
At the independent shop I was at every customer was a tier 3 made me run back to the dealer real quick
We have 4 Eurotrash cars in the field behind the shop right now. BMW, Mini Cooper and Mercedes.
Timing chains, suspension issues, electrical wiring rot(as designed). Every customer stunned that they are expensive to fix, abandoned over diag fees alone. We had one with an interior falling apart, $10,000 to repair. Mercedes said it’s normal at 10-12 years old, biodegradable.
Stop buying this trash if you don’t have money people...Tier 3 knuckleheads, always buy over 3 year old euro cars. Nothing a proper “estimate” won’t solve.
I have worked on one Land rover so far,change spark plugs in a Discovery.What a royal pita to get to the back 3 spark plugs.A few Volkswagons as well.nightmare to work on them.
I opened my own mobile repair, it didn't take long and I no longer work on euro trash. I get the tier 4 and 5 customers. And I couldn't take the , you fixed a coolant hose now my brake light doesn't work what did you do?!?! Us and Asian only, but no infinity!!
Love it
That makes sense. I always wondered why y’all didn’t work on Mercs and now I understand. Yeah, when these cars depreciate as much as they do people
pick them up for next to nothing and then they realize why...and we get to be the punching bag.
This happened at Ford last week had a BMW come in for a headlight that needed a bulb well the bulbs are $150 each or somthing like that cause they were a special bulb and she didn’t wanna pay so we put her old ones back in!
Couldn't agree more. I think a lot of techs are afraid of euro cars. I like them, they give you way more data to work with, and pay very well.
Most euro makes do give you way more data to work with. I’ve always said that the Asian makes don’t give you much info but it’s easy to find, whereas the Euro makes give you tons of info but it is very hard to find, especially with VW/Audi. Good Lord do they make info hard to find with their wiring diagram “tracks” and “measuring values”.
Had a tier 3 customer with an Audi he just bought from a fly by night used car lot. It needed brakes all around, are estimate was 2k pads and rotors. He shit his pants then drove out grinding brakes. These are the same people that rent apartments and drive cars they can't afford smh
Good to hear you guys have ISTA, definitely helps a tad bit!
How can i buy ista
You need to open the intake runners a little bit while you lay the intake down or it will block then closed. Heads up!
Since we don't have an European dealer within an hour of us we take all euros and our customers have been trained to understand their cars are expensive to fix
Knew someone who worked at a shop everyone there hated BMWs and the owner of the shop had one
Bet that Land Rover comes back for an unrelated issue. Good luck!
I like how you state the comeback ratio, this is a real situation , with real diagnosis, and real comebacks for completely separate faults with completely competent techs.
Lool these people have "champagne tastes but lemonade money"
*beer money
I've been a mechanic for 40 years here in the UK and I no longer work on those vehicles ether, expensive, fragile, and unreliable just like scotty kilmer says. Just be glad you don't have french cars out there at least I don't think you do
Lol yeah no Renaults here thank goodness! Europeans tourists are always surprised to see how many Japanese cars there are on our roads. We like em more than GM and Ford
Love the laguvulin hat... cheers from northern indiana usa
And over here in Europe its the other way around, Us cars are expensive to maintain, parts are not readily accessible and when they are accessible they are super expensive. ;)
This is so weird. I wish my BMW parts and VW parts would be cheap!!!! You are lucky because US cars are mediocre at best.
6:20 do you do a car fax on it before touching them?
I had a 2018 Mercedes G550 AWD in last week. They just wanted to look under the vehicle before purchasing. When I had it in the air, I saw the front axle was nothing like anything I had ever seen. Big spheres at each wheel that looked like a ball and socket setup for steering knuckles. After they left I looked it up on Alldata and could not find any service info for this vehicle except for a couple of TSBs. This is the biggest reason I don't like working on European junk.
Sounds similar to the front axle set up on older Toyota Land Cruisers.
I think a lot of it depends on the area/ average income. I drive over an hour away to a wealthier area to get customers that are willing to fix their car
I live in Europe and my shop works on all brands. we have a bunch of tier 1 and 2 customers. We have a few tier 3 and 4 customers and they are all Lexus owners...
You are one hundred percent correct about all three teirs of customer.
Can you assign ethnicities to the tiers?
ABSOLUTELY TRUE VIDEO
I'd say about 80% of our customers are tier 3, 15% are tier 2, and 5% are tier 1. The only euro dealer we have within 50 miles is VW, and everyone knows their service department is horrible. The management treats all tiers equally, and I'm salaried, so I don't worry about it.
All that said, my main issue is when service information isn't available. It's nearly impossible to diagnose something if I don't know how it works.
well said !
2:32 - 2:52 hit the nail on the head! =)
Tier4 customers, we call them friends and family, they call you at any time and you have to work for them for free or cheaply ... and after all they will complaint :D
I have a friend who is a millionaire and drives a 20 year old pathfinder, he drops by periodically to have me check his tire pressure, when he tells me of an issue he’s having with his car, I don’t touch anything under the hood because it will crumble or disintegrate and he will blame me and bad mouth me to anyone who’ll listen, no thanks.
Friends and family pay cash xD
Exclusively tier 3 customers every day. Paid hourly so all good in the end. Does get annoying at times.
Wow, where did you get that hat
One of my best friends works only on Lexus, Audi, Ferrari and VW only. His shop is packed. The shop he works at has a perfect niche market. .
We don't work on euros at all. There is no dealers for them here and I think one specialty shop for euros. Since our city is small there is no market for euros so 90% of the euro cars here are several years old and are tier 3 customers.
Man I wanna work for your shop wish my boss understood this kinda stuff
If you work on level tear three jobs, you normally more nervous to work on and that's when things go wrong. Level one customers you normally have less things go wrong because you are not as nervous to work on.
Thanks.
If you cant afford it don't buy it,we all know European is expensive to maintain, part of the problem is the status symbol of the said cars and lack of ownership knowledge and them thinking were all con-man mechanics.
40% comeback whether trained specifically or not is crazy. Sounds like a tech issue. You gotta cover your butt and QC your work!!
After running a repair shop on the other side of the Atlantic for few years this was funny. Obviously we did loads of European cars as well Japanese and KIAs and what have you. But when some Yankee PoS managed to get to us most techs would rather take a personal day than trying fix those. You don't get the parts from the normal suppliers, our scan tools get basic engine codes and that't it. No instructions on the software we use. We did get the tier one customers, but if a oil filter takes three days to order then it really doesn't matter with a walk-in.
My last eurotrash experience was a trans pan on a 2014 BMW X1. Was apprenticing at the time and had our shop’s euro guy help me out with proper procedure and torque specs. No joke, car came back THREE. TIMES. With the same leak in the SAME spot. Dealer bought them a new plastic pan, rubber gasket (pre installed in the pan) and fluid all three times. We never did figure out why it did it. Note that I was working in Used Car at a Subaru Dealer so Euro’s were weird to us, minus for our euro guy.
There's a seal for the wire harness that's common for failing on older ZF8 speed transmissions.
You are spot on in your assessment!I work at a landrover dealer.
I will only work on European cars using factory parts only. If they beg and plead to use cheaper parts, I normally say no, but if I agree, I offer zero warranty of any kind on the work.
That being said, I still rarely work on them. It's to much hassle.
Many people don't take into account much it costs to maintain and fix their vehicles.
Ever since u did my brakes after 6 months ABS light come on
As a i tech myself i would never buy any European car. Problem is once the car is 5 years old a repair costs more than the car is worth.
Nissan/ Mitsubishi owners are pretty much all tier 3 in my experience (not all)
Same here in the south. You tend to get a lot of low income ...some might say trash/ghetto.. that go out to those used car lots in the low income area and buys a BMW or Jag in cash and they 1st always take it to the local "guy" they know then to a "local" shop.. that just changes parts and then the dealer or a shop with a high reputation. Then they pay w/e the diag is and tow it out to fix it themselves.
Landrover is a Ford Explorer they are big in hotatlanta with the certain population there
Yeeeap right on
Yeah lotta customers John goodtime customers but there’s a Lotta good customers to
I as well stopped euro car diagnostic and major repairs at my shop. Really not worth the headache and the money is not there. But yes...I might bend over on customers I know that I trust that won't screw me over. I always warn customer who brings me these cars or buy them used and looks like crap...sorry don't work on them. I might have lost that euro income...but trust me you'll sleep better at night. I usually send them to a reputable all euro shop so I don't look like a douchebag. atleast the customer will appreciate it...sometimes just helping them brings more jobs that's not euro from them.
What codes are you getting on that Audi? Make sure they did get a recalled for the fuel rails. If the dealer didn't put back the lower intake runner right you will get a stuck open code for the runners. Also check the vacuum hose at the water pump. If they didn't put that hose back you will get a codes for intake runner close. Let me know? And, one more thing was there is one solenoid that controls both runners.
One solenoid, it was checked, not my first rodeo on these, someone had the intake/sc off recently. As i wrote in the video it was a flood car so we shipped it without any repairs
@@flatratemaster 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
Try working on VW I hate to see one coming but the foreman takes anything. That comes in