Metal Lathe Tutorial 11 : How To Buy And Use Indicators
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- This is Lathe Skills, a multi-part series to help you learn basic machine shop work. Exclusive videos, drawings, models & plans available on Patreon!
/ quinndunki
Watch the whole Lathe Skills series at
• Lathe Skills
Here are links for many of the tools that you see me using:
(I earn small commissions on these links)
• 1-2-3 Blocks : amzn.to/2EvAsGq
• Mitutoyo dial indicator : amzn.to/2H09gBr
• Mitutoyo dial test indicator : amzn.to/2E5lRQw
• NOGA arm with magnetic base : amzn.to/2U2bGTI
• DeWalt drill and driver kit : amzn.to/2U2bGTI
• DeWalt portable band saw: amzn.to/2U4Mhsw
• DeWalt band saw blades: amzn.to/2H2J4X0
• Dykem Layout fluid: amzn.to/2U7KQts
• High Speed Steel tool bits : amzn.to/2H1qoqr
• Norton oil stone kit : amzn.to/2EbLEH3
• Tap Magic cutting oil : amzn.to/2U68wOJ
• WD-40 w/ smart straw : amzn.to/2GYV8rY
• Nicholson needle files : amzn.to/2GZWcMl
• End mills: amzn.to/2U76Vsf
• Quick Change Toolpost: amzn.to/2Ea8EWR
• Milling machine starter pack: amzn.to/2tA2M4e
• Oomoo 30 silicone kit : amzn.to/2tCJDyQ
For more cool shop projects, check out
www.blondihacks...
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Blondihacks on Instagram : / blondihacks
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I think I must be one of a large contingent of old guys getting into metal working. This is because I have old motorcycles. As an ex office waller the engineering world is a bit alien. Quinn, your short videos are first rate. Many thanks for them. I am learning loads.
I was in highschool machine shop but the cookie didn't crumble that way. So I'm 45, just kicked but learning a 750 ton deep draw press in short time. I'm about to do a training course at the end of the month and pick up where I left off all those years ago. And I'm loving these videos. I'm going in very well refreshed on lathes. Bridgeport next. 🙂
Most people cannot draw the circumference of their ignorance. -Your videos are helping me to define my own.
Clear, prepared concise! Thank you!
I can't even begin to tell you how helpful this series is!
I’ve watched before for entertainment and to pick up some engineering skills, but now I’m taking notes and paying full attention so I can get my first hobby lathe to make respectable parts. Thanks again for the videos!
It's funny watching CNC videos and seeing all the chips attached to the mag bases used to hold cameras.
I have basic machining skills but have been away from it for a while. I just purchased a Hardinge lathe and have been watching videos to get my head back into it. So far these are by far the clearest, most straightforward videos I've seen. You're well spoken and present a ton of info in a way thats super easy to understand and digest. Very glad I found you! Happy holidays Quinn.
All your videos are quick, clear, concise and to the point!
I wanted to thank you for the series of videos on using a metal lathe. So far you have a video for everything I have needed to get me started.
They are all concise, easy to understand and tell me exactly what I needed to know.
I think it was Abom who suggested to buy a couple of the really cheap plunging indicators as you often use them as lathe stops, to true up parts and on multiple machines and in multiple positions. You don't need high reliability in those cases . Save the good indicator for the surface plate. Also, the DTI indicator does not have to have a straight leg! But it's leg does have to be in a position perpendicular to the direction you are measuring. Like a footballer's leg kicking a ball.
Hi. I just love your channel. The information presented here, all of it is very well thought out and above all, clearly presented. Thank you.
Without question one of the most informative and well constructed videos in all of CZcams. You can watch this video and after completion make solid, well informed decisions as to what tool you should purchase. 👍
Your articulation of Indicators was Dynomite. You covered a massive amount of ground in ten minutes. Your explanations were excellent -- the best I've ever seen .That was a five star performance .
TangentJim Thank you! That’s very kind
Great stuff Quinn. Have been following your blog for some time but somehow have only just discovered your CZcams channel. Good info clearly set out. Excellent! And no blokey, heavy metal guitar riff intros. Refreshing!
Aww, thanks! Great to see some of my blog readers over here.
Great Video Quinn ! Dial indicators are extremely versatile measuring gages as its all in the fixture hold them. Their design specs are governed by AGD “American Gage Design” which sets common specifications on size & accuracy. Another great point is most Inch measuring dial indicators offer interchangeable contact points with 4-48 threading mount. But when changing contact points its wise to wrap a rubber band around the spindle to avoid placing rotational torque on the internal indicator works. I find your videos very important to new people starting a small home shop. You have a great talent to keep them short, moving and educational all at the same time. I will become a Patron as I want to support you in your work.
Thanks for the kind words, Bill!
I am more a woodworker and too far down the age track to think about moving into machining. But I love these videos as I have always been remotely interested in the topic. I think Quinn would make a great dinner guest as I love her dry sometimes ascerbic wit and beautifully clear way of articulating a point.
I appreciate you showing how the stylus of the dial test indicator can be adjusted. I'd always been wary of bottoming out the dial and "forcing it". I looked for advice but you'd be surprised how many introductions to dial test indicators leave that out...
Thank you Quinn! This was exactly what I was looking for. Clear and concise.
I always wondered how the heck they "shielded" the magnet so effectively inside mag bases. Thanks for the explanation! Also, I've tried a few different mag bases over the years with a fair bit of frustration. Then I bought a Noga after seeing it endorsed on another CZcams channel. Saying it changed my life might be a bit much, but it's close. It's a fantastic base, and not unreasonably expensive.
Bought a cheap Chinese test indicator to use for 3d printer bed leveling (hence going for the cheap option) and this is the only video I found that showed how to adjust the lever angle.
Thanks!
Really helpful video. Something I’ve been struggling with at work is clocking up parts concentrically in self centring chucks. It’d be a great video and extremely useful
at 3 seconds was very cute to me ...
at 7 kick the like button
at 11 smashed the subscribed one
very informative and WHAT A VOICE !!!!!!!!!
congrats !
Just getting into machining and found this channel - it's absolutely fantastic. Precise and informative. THANK you.
4:30 If I had read this on the internet I wouldn't have believed it! Very Interesting.
Your very good at making it look easy. Really like your content
We use mag bases in optical labs as well, thy are convenient for quickly attaching things to optical tables.
Nice video. Some DTAs are calibrated to a non-zero tip angle (ca. 10 degrees), which i find very useful. The Mitutoyo you are showing isn't, but mitutoyo provides convenient compensation tables.
Great additional context. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for sharing Quin. Your channel is an excellent source of info.
Cheers
Gracias por tus enseñanzas,muy interesantes , para los que deseamos mejorar nuestros conocimientos.. José.
I recently bought a $60 set including a magnetic base, a dial and a dial test indicator from Little Machine Shop that seem to be knockoffs of these Mitutoyo ones, but I have to say the quality seems outstanding, they really feel like precision instruments and it definitely doesn’t feel like I was skimping at all. I can definitely recommend that set to other beginners (or non beginners for that matter) The Noga arm will definitely be a nice upgrade though.
Really helpful for beginners. Thanks you for great rythm, great video, very good work
Quinn,
Lots of good information here on your channel and thanks for that. I have wanted to "Give Back" and I have gone to hit the Patreon button more than a few times and one of those "way too often" Wood Worker digs comes out of nowhere. What gives? An accomplished Wood Worker is a highly skilled individual. I'm one of them. In all fairness master the trade before you judge it.
Thanks
It’s just friendly teasing
Thank you for yet another great video! Many visual examples, use-cases, tips, caveats, and also links to the products you showcased. Thank you!
Quinn rocks! I love your videos!
I would love to see a video from you on turning metric threads to a shoulder, using the half nut and thread dial.
I use a method I learned from a gunsmith a long time ago, that I haven't seen anywhere else. I'm curious as to how you do it?
I have done that here once or twice, but I do it the “typical” way of keeping the half nut engaged. There is a method for using the threading dial but I haven’t tried it myself and would have to look it up again. Machine Shop Practice Vol 1 covers it.
@@Blondihacks
Ill try to describe the method I've been using. It came from a gunsmith @ Score High Precision, a well known long range precision rifle builder in Albuquerque, NM. I'm not as articulate as I'd like to be, so I hope this comes out making sense. It's actually easier to do than to describe.
I start by setting the gearbox/change gears to the correct pitch, and the compound to 29.5°. set up the tool, and touch-off, zeroing both the compound and cross slide. The compound is used for all depth of cut changes. The cross slide is only used for tool clearance in the reverse part of the operation.
So, start the first pass by engaging the half-nut when the thread dial is on a given number, let's say #1. disengage the half-nut at the end of the pass, then turn the lathe off (no hurry, but before the thread dial makes a full revolution).
Now you turn the cross slide handwheel 1 turn, from zero to zero on the dial, pulling the tool well clear of the work. Run the lathe in reverse, and re-engage the half-nut with the thread dial on #1, while reversing.
Once the carriage has moved back to your starting point in reverse, you can stop the motor, spin the cross slide back in 1 full turn to zero, then make you depth of cut change on the compound, and start the next pass.
Basically, your disengaging the half-nut to prevent a shoulder crash, retracting the tool with the cross slide, reversing the lathe, and re-engaging the half nut in the same leadscrew thread while reversing back to the starting point. Then repeating.
I hope I made sense with all that.
I've learned a lot from your videos and really enjoy them. Thank you.
I mostly use the dial test indicator in the lathe. When the needle stops moving it's fine. Short pieces in a big lathe makes it challenging to use the other sort. The jaws are so high that the normal indicator is to short. Yes, there are longer/different "ends" but as long as the test indicator works I'll use that method.
My biggest challenge is to get the workpieces true in both X (vertical/diameter) and Y (horizontal/length). When I have made the backside (squared it up, made some groves and what not) and turn it around it usually moves in Y when I try to zero X. When possible to use four-jaw and the piece can be kept against the chuck its easier. In theory: when in line → in right angle, not so easy in real life when it should be within 0.01mm (0.5 "thou"?). You did not see the imperial headscratch, but it was there, I promise 🤭🤣!
Great series!! Easy to understand and watch especially this one on indicators. Keep them coming. Will you be doing a series on the mill at some point? Just getting started in Texas.
Thank you, and thanks for watching! Yes, there will definitely be a Mill Skills series. I'm working out the lesson plan on that now. I almost started with it because of the catchy name, but you gotta learn machining with the lathe. That's just a fact. :)
Good info. I like the ‘woodworkers can look away’ comments. Being a woodchuck I own more woodworking tools than machine tools. That being said if my unisaw had as much slop as my grizzly turning thingy I would throw a table-saw out.
Excellent teacher who really know her stuff!
Good stuff Blondihacks, loving these little snippet of gold. I would argue that the DTI stalk/arm is more gonna play are a part with cosine error when not perpendicular to the work rather than straight to the indicator body. Joe Pieczynski has a demo of this. Other than that great stuff👍
jordan Parkinson Thanks for watching! Glad you’re enjoying them. 😁
What a great channel. Very interesting and well explained. Subscribed. 👍
derek wilkinson Thanks for the sub, and welcome!
yes it is very good indeed ...
Thanks, I learned what I needed to find out.
Very interesting and cleared up a few mysteries for me. Thank you. 😊👍🏻
Call me crazy but I like dial indicators more than digital ones. I do a lot of honing and using a dial bore indicator versus a digital one is night and day. I'm a visual person so watching the needle's movements as I measure down a bore helps me visualize the high and low spots and taper more than a digital one does.
Your comment about not being able to see the reading on camera brings up the point that you really need to be looking straight at the face of the indicator to avoid parallax to get a correct reading.
Hey Quinn, just wanted to let you know that there's a typo in the links section of your video descriptions--the link for the DeWalt drill and driver kit is actually the link to the NOGA arm. Your videos are awesome, thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Thank you! I’ll look at that!
I will say you present the material in a very consice and easy to understand manner very nice curious about your background?
Charles Askings Thank you! My background is in software, actually, but I have a love for all types of engineering.
great way to explain cosine error.
Thanks Quinn
I was curious when finding your channel about your accent, because it was "slightly" different than other Americans. Then the word "Minnesota" came to mind (I know very little about geography and absolutely nothing about Minnesota). After watching your lathe series, and reading your great machine blog posts, I learned that you are from Canada. I am wondering if "Minnesota" means anything? I am a new subscriber, and I'm also fascinated with Canada, because I've never been there. I just spent some time reading about why Canada is using "Imperial" measurements still, because I was very surprised that you are using Imperial machine tools there in Canada. But I guess, they haven't changed construction and machining tools yet, and are still using the Imperial system for a lot of industrial things in Canada.
Very well explained. Thanks again
wow thank you for jumping right in
Hi folks. A bit more info. The better Dial Test Indicators (DTI) have a pear shaped tip on the end of the probe that automatically corrects for the cosine error that a spherical tip can introduce. Just ordered myself a NOGA arm - got fed up with the cheap ones I have. BobUK.
Awesome, learning loads thank you! Also you might not know this is not on your playlist 👌
Thank you for watching! Not sure I follow you there- it looks like this video is in the Lathe Skills playlist to me?
Relatively new subscriber and am learning so much from your outstanding tutorials. However, I am confused because the Mitutoyo DTI instruction manual says we're supposed to "set the contact point (of the stylus) at a right angle to the measurement direction of the workpiece" whereas, if I understand you correctly, you seem to suggest cosine error creeps in the farther away from 180 degrees?
Hi Quinn. Thanks for the videos, you do an amazing job of simplifying topics and supplying the why of how to do things. Just curious, you mentioned that you purchased your indicators used and rebuilt them. Any chance you made a video on that? I am the recipient of several indicators from a career machinist, but most of them feel sluggish. I'd love to have an idea of what I am doing before I just pull one apart and a spring goes flying off into the abyss. Thanks again.
love to know more about that flatness gauge ...?
Just a heads up: Looks like the affiliate link for Tap Magic cutting oil is pointing to an ASIN that's no longer valid.
Thanks for these super thorough videos!
Thank you very much, great content, as always. Although, I still have no idea how on earth one can use these magbase stands, since they are so fantastically frail! Every time I tried to perform a measurements with this device, I noticed that even a single slight awkward movement is enough to spoil the result, and I was doomed to resort to the good old and heavy stand with cast iron base (where applicable). Maybe it's a good idea to demonstrate some rules of thumb of using the magbase stand in a separate video? Tnx.
Thanks again young lady.. Appreciate your presentation
Excellent video, thank you very much.
Great video! I heard about your channel from Adam Booth. Very interesting concept for the project you sent to him to elaborate on, then pass along. I must admit to drawing a blank as to what the next step could be. So far, anyway.
Could you possibly find a chance to discuss linearity errors between test indicator dial movement versus actual contact point movement when different length contact arms are interchanged on said test indicator?
Sure! I suspect I'll do further in-depth videos on inspection and proofing. For the moment, my goal is to get beginners up to speed with the most basic stuff they need to know.
Thanks for showing me how to properly spend my money on Amazon. 🙂
Awesome video, absolutely loving this video series.
Aww, thanks! It's certainly my most popular. Maybe there's a niche for educational machining videos that are short. :)
Why dont you make a tutorial CD ?
Please madam! Thanks for your sincere videos!!
But can you use a dial indicator on the lathe while turning? I had to replace my original Unimat 3 jaw chuck. It was shot on my Unimat DB/SL200. I purchased a Sherline 4 jaw non- independent chuck and it is awesome.
Great video. Thanks.
Aluminum CANNOT cancel static magnetic fields. In fact, in a static magnetic field the aluminum is essentially invisible. (Some nerds will be yelling that Aluminum is paramagnetic... but that effect is not useful here). In one incarnation, when the knob is rotated, the magnet is rotated. A good explaination is at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_base . An otherwise excellent video.
Yah, I know. My explanation was not great there.
Still awesome work. 👍👍
Quinn , I'm a newbie to metal working. Just bought a metal lathe. Found your video very helpful. But there was no mention of digital indicators. What's your take on them?
How often do you have them calibrated. I had to learn the dial indicator on a drill press chuck to find the deflection
Well video
Thanks for sharing information. I ended up getting the same dial indicator that you recommend in your tools list. I did end up getting a Noga holder also, but my Mitutoyo doesn't fit into my Noga. I hope you can point me in the right direction with an adapter that I can put on my noga.
There are a bunch of ways those fit together, so I’d make sure. There are dovetails around the edges, or a lug on the back. For the dovetails, the NOGA has a little clip. For a lug, the NOGA has a little bolt.
@@Blondihacks Wow thanks for the reply! I didn't get anything from my Noga box other then the unit itself. However, I got a bolt today and fasten it to my dial indicator and noga arm!
which type, resolution, size indicator should you buy if you can only buy one while starting with lathe? Sorry if it was discussed in the video and I missed it, I've watched this video 4 times in last 3 weeks.
Goood video Quinn.
Great videos, I've learned a lot of stuff from you and Mr. Pete and others. However, I have what may seem like a "dumb question". I'm an old man that loves working with my mini lathe and mini mill. It is just a hobby but I'm getting better at doing something I love. So, here I go, can you tell me how to deal with magnetism. I know that I'm doing something wrong, I haven't seen anyone having to deal with this most annoying issue. Everything I use from drill bits, cutting tools, chuck keys to screw drivers has small metal shavings stuck to them. I know this went long but I had to ask if I'm the only person that can't come up with a solution for magnets. I have an issue with gravity also but I do have an idea that works.
It’s a good question! Tools can become magnetized sometimes, which is annoying. Get yourself a “screwdriver demagnetizer”. They only cost a few bucks and work quite well
@@Blondihacks Thanks, I will get one.
What indicator holder would you recommend for a 2" diameter plunge type dial indicator with a lug on the back? I have not seen any arms that can be used.
❤thanks a lot❤
Where can I find the ways mounted clamp? Loving the series so far! Great job.
I modeled that and 3D printed it. Here’s a link:
www.thingiverse.com/thing:2854617
Great video. Question: I have a dial indicator where the small hand (subsidiary dial) is just off of the zero. I can zero the large hand but not the small. Is that a problem? Do I just preload it so the small reads zero and then zero the large hand?
Great question! That’s normal- the small hand reads after the number. So any reading 1-2 is 100, 2-3 is 200, etc - if that makes sense? Because you can always zero the large hand within one rotation, this works out.
She is awesome 👏
Nice video
Your vids are awesome
Do dial indicators need to be calibrated?
i got one of those arms you suggested, but it's way too short. on every length. there isn't a flat surface i can mount to anywhere so use the dial gauge on my part to get it nicely within the chuck :'(
Thanks Blondi, do you prefer the Noga indicator holders with the fine adjustment at the base or near the indicator?
Wanting to see how much material I remove in real time.
how precise are your indicators? Will I ever need a .0001 indicator? it only goes up to .004
Great videos. Thank you.
I miss the cat.
Soo, I follow your link to the Noga arm.. shipping is $300+... the magnets are rated by holding force ie 176lbs.. apparently Amazon thinks they weigh 176 pounds
I can’t control what Amazon does with their listings in different regions
Thank you madam!
Mitutoyo mag base MADE IN BRAZIL! \o/
Yeah precision indicators can run $350 to $500 each. Filling the drawer gets pricey! Btw.. dial indicators have a 3/8 stem and noga heads have a 3/8, 5/32, dovetail clamp.
Hi, can you please include the link for lathe ways dial indicator clamp?
That’s shop made. See my videos for how to make it
Hi Quinn really enjoy all of your CZcams videos. Do you have a way that I can ask questions.? I am aiming to purchase lathe and a milling machine from precision Matthews in September of this year and I have so many questions.
Generally I devote the most question-answering time to my Patrons, so signing up there is the best way to reach me
Blondihacks ok I will sign up tomorrow
I see you use Mitotoyo dial gauge is it accurate? I have plan to buy one since my Chinese dial poorly accurate.
edit: sprocket, where is he?
Its me wrecking stuff Yes, Mitutoyo is an excellent brand for machinist measuring tools. I like them very much. There are links in the description of this video for buying the indicators you see here. Sprocket was behaving herself today during recording, so no cameos. 😀
@@Blondihacks thanks for enlightment
:brad:
@@knitt9914 The "big" difference between Mitutoyo and Starret is that the former use phosphorus bronze bushings and the later use artificial ruby bushings (also called gemstone bearings/bushings). Now, a Starret will last in a professional machine shop for generations... unless you drop it or forget that it's there and crush it with the power feed. A Mitutoyo will last a hobbyist a lifetime easily. And as @Blondihacks said, they are excellent. Japan has manufactured high quality measuring tools since the 70s that are in every way, precision wise, on par with US and European stuff.
@@andersjjensenbig thanks for sharing the knowledge.
:Brad Schmidt:
@@andersjjensen Funny my Mitutoyo dial test indicator has 7 jewels.
There is no force in the universe greater than duct tape! Got metal chips and swarf on a magnet? Use tape (any kind, really) to pull all the nasty bits off.
Getting a dwarf off of a magnet can be tricky business... they don't like tape... try beer instead...
Also beware of the fakes for sale. Not all Mitutoyo's are real. Seems the Chinese are copying everything now.
Good tip!
On the other hand chinese tools can be quite good. I have good experience with Shahe tools.
Any help would be appreciated please.
Professional woodworker here. Don't hate. I did enjoy the job though.
Just pokin' fun. Some of my best friends are woodworkers. My cousin married a woodworker and we barely make fun of him at all at the family reunions.
@@Blondihacks LOL. Nice.
@@Blondihacks That is so mean, and simultaneously so funny. Tell your cousin at least some of your followers support him, or her as the case may be.
Joseph DESTAUBIN Will do. 😬
Good vi😢
I noticed two things Quinn. You don't wear a ring, nor do you have a tan line.
You dating anyone? 😊
What, no Gato.?
Steve Shindeldecker Sprocket was behaving herself during taping for once. 😁
Bound. To happen eventually.lol
"Without reliable measurement, all machining is witchcraft." - Discuss.
Hey! I can hold .2 mm all day long on wood. Quit your picking. 😁