My rant on the Mythic Track Gearing Changes in The War Within Beta
Vložit
- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- www.wowhead.co...
↬ Support the channel on Patreon: / metrohaha
↬ See my database of every Mythic+ Run that appears on the channel:
bigplay.one/My...
Learn how to use it here:
bigplay.one/Li...
↬ Join the OneAzerothTV Discord here: / discord
We ask that any viewer read the pinned message and Introduce yourself first to assure we have the healthiest community possible.
↬ Check out my second channel where we do chill wow leveling challenges and exploration
bigplay.one/le...
↬ See all my Leveling Challenges here
bigplay.one/level
↬ My Blood DK Weak Auras and UI:
bigplay.one/myUI
↬ Why I stream on CZcams instead of Twitch
bigplay.one/Wh...
↬ My Mic, Keyboard, Mouse and all other gear and tech I use
bigplay.one/My...
↬ See all my side content Including PokemonTCG and Golf here
bigplay.one/Golf
The only thing i think should potentially change is to have depleted keys not give less crests, i feel like the key depleting itself is punishment enough, plus the wasted time of a depleted key.
This could reduce the rate that people leave keys and increase the key level that people are willing to attempt while "farming" for crests.
100 percent agree. 1000 percent really.
I 100% agree too. If they are not willing to do that, then a compromise suggestion from me would be to make it so you get full crest if you complete the dungeon within the timer without deducting any deaths. I think with the death penalty now being even higher this will be more of an issue and cause more disbands. This might work as a motivation to still play the key even if not upgradable while retaining the "timed content" spirit of M+. It might also prevent any fear blizzard might has of people wiping through dungeons that they are not ready for to get crests.
Being able to eventually get the same ilv gear as a mythic raider is a good thing. Isn't it always that if you only do mythic plus your gear was always at a lower ilv?
@@zhengwayne5015 yes, its just that crafting not being close to mythic raid level drops would have been a bigger downside in the ability to get to an acceptable ilvl to keep up with the raiders for early M+. But given that this was now communicated to be adjusted. M+ only players should be perfectly happy with this.
Yeah i'd also just be happy if it didn't reduce the crest gain by so much, make it 12 and 8 at least 5 crests just feels so rough especially when you deplete due to uncontrollable factors such as a bug costing you time or someone leaving
You using a season old trinket is kinda what I liked about classic. Hand of justice being a relevant trinket for a long time was neat.
Would be cool if I could say get a trinket that only dropped as a blue in a heroic and it was relevant for a while. Then I replace it in a raid or a mythic dungeon.
Vs the exact same items dropping at different difficulty just with different stat #s.
Kill off the seasonal ilvl reset and just have a static big pool of gear to farm and pick from. And give more interesting effects to this pool of gear. I’m the minority I know.
That would absolutely be amazing. But I doubt they would ever do it, simply because a lot of people seem obsessed with this idea that gear is linear and if you don't sit at the end of the line you are not good.
I just wish we could go back to having a single currency for upgrading items. Maybe you have a general currency you can earn from most things with acts of.... justice and there's a cutoff. Then you do harder content and display acts of.... valor to upgrade to higher tier items. And then you can just standardize that and use that system as an evergreen feature.
Ya, I can't even remember why they changed it tbh.
Seems like putting one fire out just causes a new one at this point.
Saying crafted gear isnt nerfed if it was less ilvl disparity from the top and now its more is same as saying we've been buffed in tww because we now have more stat and health then in df s4. Its all relative. If crafted gear has less value compared to your bis then its been nerfed. You can also say gear has been buffed, both these things can coexist and be true.
@@Wand422 crafting has been changed since this anyway.
I still don't understand the issue here. We get a choice between 3 myth pieces weekly, even with bad RNG, you can cap out your gear well before the end of a season.
The issue is that people want it done before the season starts.
I think the problem people have is that if you don't mythic raid you are going to be very far behind for the first half of the season unless you get really lucky with vaults. It's fine if you focus on personal progression instead of what the very top players are doing. The gaps between keys above 12 is going to be massive now, so m+ only players probably won't be any more key levels behind anyway.
@@crat831 Yup, the problem is they are comparing themselves to others instead of the content.
I think you really are on point with saying "people need to stop comparing themselves to others that much". I see too many players staring at damage meters or being upset about someone overtaking their IO score. Some competition and comparison can be fun and help improvement, but unless you are pushing for 0.1% title ( 1000 players worldwide btw, and these 1000 people will mythic raid if they need to) you will not be stopped by ilv on your progression.
Right the whole concept of "falling behind" is silly and it puts mediocre players in this impossible trap they will never recover from.
Yes, in shadowlands, gear could be continually upgraded. That's why you had players spamming Mythic+2 dungeons to get their BIS gear items and just upgrade them thereafter.
I believe it was an unmanageable amount of valor needed though, if I remember correctly.
But ya, they need to go back to that for sure.
It's a matter of perspective I suppose, right now on pre-patch crafted gear max ilvl is 525 vs 528 for other gear (If I remember correctly it used to be 522 for crafted at the start of season so they've clearly buffed that from 6 ilvl gap to 3). By buffing general ilvl of all items up by 2 tracks it automatically nerfs this gap from its current 3 ilvls to the projected 10 (I do see some comments here that to my understanding imply Blizz intends to buff crafted gear too to maintain the gap but I'm just working off the info in the video because I haven't been looking into beta news about gear as its ultimately irrelevant to me I care more about HOW my gear is obtained rather than exactly what ilvl it is) which the general player base seems to be focusing on (we really do like to focus on the negative side sometimes) where as you choose to focus on the positive side that indeed all this is doing is raising our max ilvl and power overall. We were already mostly just using crafted gear for embelishments anyway which is probably worth at least 10-15 ilvls so this shouldn't feel like any change really.
I do agree that the current loot system could benefit from some mechanic that allowed us to upgrade a lower tier item up to max tier either by making the upgrade system in general work like the bullion items or by having some item that you could get from bosses/keys (or maybe allow us to buy it for crests?).
I will never understand casuals/world content players complaining about gear or balance it may come of as elitist of me but if you're not doing any challenging end game content then class balance and gear shouldn't be relevant.. I get that we need a casual player base too for the game to thrive properly so we must keep them happy but I still find it ridiculous when they complain that some class is op cause they did a world quest faster than them or that they need better gear because they don't kill things as fast as high end players
Still don't agree with your take on Titanforging but I'll agree to disagree and move on.. Personally I like jumping into lower keys for shits and giggles or to help a friend/acquaintance get some gear, mostly cause I like being able to turn off my brain do stupid shit and get away with it even if it does sometimes create bad habits for me that can make it harder for me to progress when I want to go back to challenging myself.
100 percent it's all a perspective issue. Thanks for your thoughts!
"Nobody plays the game for fun anymore" pretty much sums up all the complaining. Oh no, I get to play the game I supposedly like for longer to cap my gear out! Oh no, I can't shelf my main character after six weeks, I can't believe it will take seven now!
Yup, that's exactly what the complaints are, at their core.
They are saying "I want to stop playing the game faster please."
Why the hell would Blizzard want that, let alone the playerbase!?
@heythereguysitsMetro that deppends wholy on what you consider to be fun. For me gear is an ends to means and grinding for it actually hinders my fun rather than enhance it. I like to push the content not my ilvl.
@@evolburd5768 Its the same for me though. That's why I don't grind gear, I push content and get gear along the way.
I think that the issue is in people who don't want to try for things until they have the best shot at succeeding.
So people want to focus on gear until they have BIS, then they want to push keys or whatever.
But I think if we encouraged people to push their difficulties while growing in power, you get the best experience.
Beyond incremental achievements that give gear upgrades for raid bosses/ m+ score thresholds, I don't really know what could be done.
@@brennanrodriguez122 I don't see how anyone would be incentivized to do that now though. Its basically just all in their head.
I push the whole time and get gear along the way. If I run into a wall some times I go backwards to get a key item.
So, here is my take why this is a nerf not a buff
Gear having more upgrades is irrelevant for player power at the max ilvl, they don't scale content as if players have 4/6 mythic now, but scale it to 6/6.
We don't gain strength through this period.
It will take longer to get to the same level of power and we are therefore weaker on average for at least the first half of the season.
We will have the same level of strength with the maximum possible item level no matter what, but this will give you a broader loot pool than before (which is good) and increase the value of early mythic raid (also good), while reducing the value of heroic raiding and crafting a bit.
Crafting is now worse comparatively, because the value is determined compared against max lvl item level for the slot. Very rare drops we very limited for slots and you did not have the ability to have that item level in every slot in Dragonflight, but you now have that ability in TWW. Crafting a tier slot where you don't want tier is now never an ok option. Are there cases (Class/Specs for certain slots) where you had the same ilvl gap in Dragonflight - Yes, but most of the time you didn't. so in most cases the percentage jump that a crafted piece will get you towards a max level (or close to it ilvl) is now less.
You also need significantly more crest to upgrade your gear. Whether you like that it is slower or not is besides the point, but factually how much you progress towards your maximum power with each step has been reduced, so that is therefore nerfed.
I really feel everything you say about ilvl, player power, and success is misplaced.
Its about the perception that your item level creates, Ilvl is a very important factor for getting invited to Mythic plus. You might think it shouldn't (and i would agree) but it is and that needs to be acknowledged. People that are skilled but lower in ilvl will not be invited for content they could easily do and they will have a harder time catching up on ilvl, particularly if their comparatively lower ilvl makes it harder for them to get into keys.
People that don't have that much time to play will now be even more behind (due to the need of the extra crests) and time-based catch-ups (crafting) doesn't get them as close to where they need to be as before (its comparatively less of a boost for your ilvl).
This is particularly relevant for alts and for people that don't play that often.
It's less relevant for people that have enough time and/or raid mythic to some degree.
I don't mind this change that much personally, but I am baffled how anyone can not understand how this is a nerf for the average player in regards to their ability to gain player power and participate in high level content.
Thanks for leaving your thoughts. Obviously I disagree 100 percent with all of that, and don't understand why you would say you are "baffled" when I just made a 30 minute video explaining my side of it.
But anyway, they just confirmed they are buffing crafting, so at least that is one less complaint for everyone who thinks getting more potential power ceiling is some how nerfing them.
@@heythereguysitsMetro Even if you assume that we get a higher potential power ceiling with this (instead of only a bigger loot pool and same comparative power to content) since you need more steps, the value of each step to reach your goal is now worth less (as the worth is determined by how much closer it gets you to your goal).
A player doing 8 keys every week in TWW1 vs Dragonflight (while having the same comparative ilvl gains weeks over week) would have a bigger gap to the max ilvl and very likely a bigger gap to the average ilvl.
So, he is now less strong in comparison to other players and less likely to be invited (which spirals the problem).
At the very least you can understand that he is not happy about that or feels that way, right?
(Personally, I only cared about the crafting and am perfectly happy now)
@@ThomasBachler01 I can understand all that yes. I think I laid out my disagreements with it in the video well enough.
well, if the max goes up for all gear and for crafted gear it will not increase, it is in fact a decent nerf for crafted gear. Which is kind of good and bad, the good part is that you can quickly skip the crafted gear path and focus on the (bad) heavy farm path for upgrade currency.
@@real_drops do you feel like your spec gets nerfed when another class gets nerfed?
@@heythereguysitsMetro if all classes and specs would sim at least in theory at the same dps yes. But your example does not really match the situation :) Let's be real, the only intention here from Blizzard was to get people involved a bit longer. Like not being fully geared in 3 weeks. Yes the change is a buff to vault gear, but again this part is just luck. Crafted gear you can create 100%. In my case currently wearing 3 crafted items, and yes I would still have a higher ilvl if all other gear would be max ilvl
not to forget the real buff-nerf which is often missed, you need to invest now more currency in upgrading to max of your vault gear vs current state. yes outcome better, but more effort required ;)
@@real_drops I asked you that question rhetorically because the answer is obviously no. Just because the max end of gearing was buffed, does not mean heroic gear was nerfed. People are just too obsessed with min/maxing their characters for no real reason other than to pretend like they aren't to blame for their lack of success.
@@heythereguysitsMetro for sure; that is realistically one of the key drivers of WoW since the start. Farming gear was and is WoWs key DNA. Is it a problem for me, nope. For others it might be. Like in my case still doing some keys each week on any char which I want to play, regardless of any gain besides fun :)
Totally agreeing with the point that having max gear doesn't even matter in the end for 98% of the playerbase.
Even tho I didn't do M+ in a while now, I love doing it. And last season as well as this season I just didn't see the point of going past max Hero track gear.
Yeah I was getting Myth track from the vault but I just thought it was unnecessary. If I was doing +29s or higher last season yeah sure give me everything but for me 2.8-3.3k rating is satisfying and really doable in even less ilvl than I've had achieving it.
Right, it should be looked at as a reward for doing the content, or an incentive used to get stronger.
Not the end-all be-all of progression and purpose for your gameplay.
Crafted items will actually still be 3 ilvl below the max, there was a wowhead post about it.
Still not sure I like the changes overall, but this one isn't the one that bugs me. What bugs me is that you have to do 9s for aspect crests and 10s for mythic vault. That, and the tank nerfs, are all adding up to a not-very-fun season, or at least that's how it looks. I hope I'm wrong.
Going to be a MUCH harder season for sure.
Saying people shouldnt be so tryhard isnt really gonna fix the issue. Everybody will maximize their time and much as possible and nobody will chill out even if they are not top world players. You will have 2k rio players optimizing gear so there needs to be a solution made from blizzard, cant really rely on players to just chill out :D
@@icswack6015 they will need to learn to otherwise they will constantly be unhappy with changes like these.
I am usually against a lot of stuff Blizzard does. Like key depletion or multi tracks so you have to refarm items despite them saying they are againsg that.
But this time people are so far off.
Nothing changed.
You never got more or less Mythic track pieces than in TWW.
1 per vault and hero in the highest keys.
Isn't it literally the same as it was but a few item levels more on the top end (for what ever reason).
I mean I usually done with all portals week 4 or something and quit anyway.
I don't get this drama.
Yup, its the exact same as it was, just with two extra upgrade tiers.
Everyone appears to be upset with that because they are so obsessed with maximizing their gear that this now invalidates things in their head.
When instead they should be excited that gearing has more longevity and potential than it does before.
Obviously this is good overall for the game. People are upset because the gear disparity between people who raid mythic vs heroic in a high m+ environment. This really only affects a small portion of the player base negatively (high m+ only players and title pushers)
Currently, the difference between max upgraded heroic raid and mythic raid gear is 6 ilvls. Functionally, this means that in s3-4, a m+ and heroic raid only player could get bis raid gear at hero track and have gear competative enough with mythic raiders that they could do keys within 1 or 2 levels of them without much problem. There were a good number of people who got title without mythic raiding (something not very realistic before the current upgrade system). The time to gear between mythic raiders and m+ only players was also similar in s3-4 with the average disparity being 2-5 ilvls in the early season which let those players push keys higher and earlier in the season than they could before.
With the changes, a bis hero track raid piece will be 13 ilvls behind myth track. If this item is a weapon, it still may be bis at 13 ilvls down even against a crafted weapon because of a damage proc, but it will lack a good amount of stamina which may lead to survivability walls in keys lower than the equivalent in s3-4.
The other problem some m+ only players have is the time to gear. It will be significantly faster to gear from mythic raid and m+ compared to m+ only or m+ and heroic raid. This difference in time to gear will create a gap in score which may make it harder for m+ only players to break into higher keys when they finally are caught up in gear.
This is something that affects me as i do not currently mythic raid due to time constraints and likely will need to do some form of mythic raid in order to not let down my push group (most of whom are ce raiders).
I want to be clear. I think this change will be healthy for the game overall and good for 98%of the player base, but i wanted to give the perspective of why some people may be upset.
If ce raiders need to do a lot of decent level m+, then high key pushers should do some sort of mythic raid. Its only fair
You may be right that it will impact those players, but they certainly are not the ones complaining about it.
@@heythereguysitsMetrofor sure, I think people mass panic on the heels of speculated news before understanding that it really doesn't effect them negatively.
I don't think these changes will impact m+ that much outside of the title range, more worried about the ilvl disparity in the first week because of heroic week.
Will make it a lot harder to find decent players to actually time a 10 if you are a non-raider.
First week is usually the wild weather anyway. I wouldn't worry about it.
We’d like to clarify that crafted gear will remain at the same relative power in The War Within as in Dragonflight, i.e., reaching 636 item level at maximum rank and quality in Season 1. wowhead post
I did it for them.
This just doesn't feel alt friendly. I played 3 toons in DF and I didn't even finish upgrading all that myth track on more than 1 toon. For me this is a really really really unfortunate change. I would love to play more characters, not less. I played a VDH, ret(had to mythic raid for the axe), & deva(had to mythic raid for the fist); I would have loved to be able to play my disc more(around 16 characters around the hero track levels from M+), but it just took wayyyyy too long to farm all the crests already, and now they've increased the amount of +9s(formerly +6s) we'll need to do for these upgrades by 50% , including being a 50% longer timegate on finishing any character. I totally get the different perspective of people like you that play 1 character, you probably finish that one fairly quickly then all you have to farm is IO, but I'd really rather them add cosmetics or something to farm long term than nerfing alts(in comparison to mains). Warbands and DF alt friendliness I though we were heading in a more alt friendly direction, throughout my WoW career I've always loved playing as many classes as possible, I think just about every spec in the game is really really fun. I'm seeing that fundamentally we have different goals for why we play gear and what we're looking for. It seems you like IO and just enjoy doing the stuff over and over. I enjoy progression of my character and reward acquisition, so I don't do above 10s and I stop once my gear is completed and I have received all rewards except the 1% title. I also enjoy doing big DPS numbers while taking the least damage in the group while playing on a DPS character, pulling massive packs while on a tank(we're talking all mana serpents with the 3 packs around Vexamus on a +10), and doing big DPS on healer while making sure there's not a single death as a healer(that was preventable by me). "The second you get it" is wild to me, do you actually know how many dungeons it currently takes to max your myth track for 'each' character or how much it's going up to? I was doing nearly 100 dungeons a week trying to get that crap finished on my characters, it's ass.
@@Azari_D you don't have to fully gear characters to enjoy playing them. Play as many as you like!
gear (ilvl) matter when you are pugging M+, if you play dps, you can do big numbers, but people dont see that in queue, only ilvl and rating, so maybe that why people are obsesing about this
I don't believe anyone invites people on anything other than rating.
I feel like most of the disappointment was the fact that we are going back to shadowlands gearing for m+ players (1 item a week) and not that much about mythic track itself. That was because they nerfed crafted gear which is now reversed.
I don't think that's it honestly. People just are unable to obsess about gear maximization.
for mains this change is whatever. i play all the time, i can upgrade pieces alls the time, i have spare points it doesnt matter. what i dont like is that tier slot pieces might feel bad. they have a lot of stat budget, right now my main has 3 hc tier pieces so in tww that character would be behind more than it is now and i think that should be looked at.
besides that there is a good component to it (at least for players like me): i wont get a chance at mythic raid items because i think raiding sucks. but if mythic track vault items are an option the itemlvl gap might be great enough to hc gear so that i dont even have to bother with hc raid. this expansion i raidet so much because of the rare items and stuff and idk, if my only option is a hc track rare item or a mythic track vault item, well maybe i can screw the hc so i got that going for me :D
@@saenct I feel the same way
I like your upgrade idea - but I say just get rid of the idea of the “tracks” and, like you said, add some way to get past ilvl breaks. Or just have it simply driven off the currency from the content you’re doing / are capable of (but I’m a simpleton casual these days and don’t want a spreadsheet to understand upgrades 😁). Love your stuff Metro
Thanks. Ya I'd love to see more integration into items people don't want one way or another. There is so much loot in this game but it's nearly all useless after a while.
Honestly this is Fear of Falling behind. If you can only run +8's currently this will get you into Myth track gear and the aspects needed to upgrade it. Next X-pac that only puts you in Hero Track and now that Myth track gear has 6 upgrade levels people in Heroic Gear will be further behind and thus feel less powerful. The way I see it "You play the game you get the rewards" So if you are only running Heroic level content, you only get Hero Track gear. I'm fine with that because I know that once I get all my gear to max iL for Hero track I can dip my toes in 10's. I do that every season, I don't play this game for a living so I require gear help overpower the higher content so maybe I'll be in Myth by the end of the season. OK, they made it harder. The alternative is a Remix, where you are completely OP with a couple of weeks of hitting max level and iL and just start accumulating threads and nobody needs to know anything about encounters because frog farmer with 500k threads is going to melt the boss. If anything this just means my alts get neglected longer while I gear my main.
I just wanted the takeaway here to be that you wont need to fully maximize your gear to reach the level of success you want to reach. And I can back that up by pointing you to my character in Dragonflight, who had a normal ilvl cloak on until last week.
@@heythereguysitsMetro Oh I agree, there are a lot of people getting worked up for something that only effects 1% of the population. If they are going to get worked up over anything it should be that we have to run M0's for 2 weeks. To me I would do that anyways. I don't run M+ at your level now, not going to start on week 1 the 2 nights a week I run stuff on.
Gearing is a big part of the fun for me, I love hunting specific drops from dungeons and praying that my vault is good each week lol extending the time is a good thing for me but they definetly need to boost up crafted gear. Dragonflight made crafting super relevant and I personally think it was really healthy for the game.
Gearing is the same as it is right now in The War Within, it seems.
So, here's a cook.
Myth track becoming x/6 = no big deal. Minor wish, for the VERY RARE item class, the innate embellishment effect should be good.
I do disagree with making every single piece of gear upgradable from adventurer 1/8 to myth 6/6, because chase items feel good to get.
Crafted gear, I'm ambivalent on right now, depends on how good the craftable embellishments are.
Last, and most important point by far, for any player from the brand new to the WF raider, and everyone in between, getting 1% better baseline at pressing buttons will give a FAR bigger power boost than even a 20 item level upgrade in the weapon slot.
Ya that last part is the big thing everyone should realize.
"The major downside of this change is that it will take longer to fully upgrade and maximize all of your gear.'
That is NOT a downside. Reaching the point of absolute boredom and nothing to do, aka maxed your gear, is NOT the goal. The goal is to have fun on this journey to get there. Gearing in an MMO is a movie with a bad ending, everything up until the end is better than the end itself.
yup TOTALLY agree. I loved it when gearing never stopped, and have to say I just have way less fun now than I did in legion because of that.
How dare Blizzard increase myth track ilvl to match very rare items and make us keep playing their game even though I raid every week and fill my vault every week. HOW DARE THEY!
ffs microsoft you were supposed to save this company. I miss activision.
be even better if they had something like in d2 where you can sacrifice an item to make another a higher iL
nvm u just said a same thing
Ya, that would be my #1 want.
The ability to earn an item of a certain level and do something with that item even if its not one you want to equip.
Yeah the crafting gear thing is mostly perception. I think some of it comes from the fact that people know that they could reliably be full 639 but feel gimped by putting crafted gear in those two slots, where under the old system there were so few very rare items that in practice the difference between your crafted slot and myth 4/4 in that slot was not as bad. This is however just people being kinda silly since obviously your embellishments more than make up for the ilvl difference. Also the fact that getting to 639 is gonna take a long time.
I personally think this longer tail is on gearing a positive change though, with the greatest benefit to mythic raiding guilds. They'll be able to have much higher item level than the world first guilds have on their kills of the raid, allowing the raids to be nerfed naturally with gear over time, instead of requiring dev nerfs like the last raid did. Similarly with M+ you'll be able to grow for much longer in the season into higher key bands. I like your point on the remix gearing system and how they did with the bullion pieces. People doing higher content will still be more geared faster, and you still have to do the work to upgrade all the way, you just aren't trying to get lucky and get the same item on champ then hero then myth
I think the main issue with this is looking down the barrel of rolling a fresh alt halfway through the season, I'd like blizzard to increase crest drops for alts based on some achievement of the main. Maybe if you're at "aspects" level gear, everything below aspects drop at 50% increased rate for alts, something like that. Also stop reducing crest drops for depleted keys, depleting the key is punishment enough. Reduced crests for deplete also encourages playing the safe and lower key you know you can time, instead of testing your limits.
Agreed. Its a positive for sure in my eyes. Having more potential to continue gaining power longer and longer greatly benefits me, and its not like they just stole what we already had and made it slower.
This appears to be purely MORE power than we had in previous seasons, relative to the season. So of course it takes longer!
@@heythereguysitsMetro pretty wild to think that “oh hey since we’re getting like a couple more ilvl then us having to do over double the amount of content in order to upgrade is ok” absolutely freakin wild
@@TheHashtagSquad2K15 That quote is so far away from what I'm saying its offensive honestly.
What is the point of intentionally misquoting me like that? To make you feel more right?
@@heythereguysitsMetro that’s quite literally what you’re saying “oh we’re getting more powerful so it’s okay for it to take longer” brother it’s not like we’re getting massively more powerful. The amount of time investment they’re adding for the amount of power increase is so wildly imbalanced.
@@TheHashtagSquad2K15 No that is not even fucking CLOSE to what I am saying. You are basically saying the most basic version of my thoughts on this, and that's really insulting given this is a 30 minute video of me discussing it.
Not interested in engaging with you further on this. Have a nice evening!
The problem is not that it takes longer to farm the crests. The problem is that the itemlevel gap between players who do mythic raid and those who dont increases with this change from 6 gs difference to 13 gs difference. And everyone who ever tried to get invited to random groups in the groupfinder for m+ knows that more itemlevel doesn't equal better dmg, but it means a higher chance to get invited into groups to be able to play the game. (This mostly applies to dds and i am a tankmain, so it does not affect me personaly that much)
@OneAzerothTV you are totaly right with your take that 6 gs difference more or less are not a big deal... once you are in the key, but it makes a difference for getting in the key in the first place, because it is not me who compares myself to others. I get compared by other to others. (Again i play tank so i am totaly fine with hero track gear and i get invites anyway because i am a tank. But i totaly understand why dds get upset if there are already 50 or more other dds in the dungeonfinder list)
A Character has 16 itemslots, 15 if using a twohanded weapon. That means that you would need to get 16 weeks straight of nonstop upgrades from your M+ great vault.
So IF (very very very big if) you are extremely lucky you have your Mythic 1/6 items at the end of the 5th month into the expansion. The first tree weeks there is no m+.
That does not take into account that the propability to just get choices in your great vault for slots you already have a Mythic item equiped in increases with every Mythic item you equip. It also does not take into account that there are items in the game you dont equip purely for itemlevel like trinkets. So the real time it takes to lessen this 13 gs itemlevel gap is much higher
Stop comparing yourself to others, and this problem goes away.
I also don't believe people are pugging real keys and looking at item level over score.
Metro, I agree with you, and I play the game much like you do. I play every week and have for decades. There is a fair amount of the player base that does not look at it like we do. These players screaming about the sky falling, are usually not in it for the long game. They want to get in and get out early, for various reasons. They need to get back to classic, or they play other MMOs like final fantasy. Their goal, at the start is to GET AND STAY ahead of the curve (not talking about the achievement) because they feel if they do this, it will be easier for them to get into groups. They arent wrong to be honest, but when you talk to them, its either "get in and out in a month or less" or not even play the game because they are behind and will always just be behind. I get their point, but its for sure hyperbolic and unreal to try to play the game that way.
Ya its unrealistic to want to do that that way, and its unrealistic that the developers should want you to.
Their complaints fall on deaf ears here, and hopefully in Irvine too, because they are asking for the game to be made worse.
@@heythereguysitsMetro agreed
The only real problem that I have with this is that for me I play alts and the amount of m+ keys I will have to do just increased by quite a bit. I don't mind doing the keys on my main because I would have done them anyway, but with an alt without catch up mechanics the time sink into getting my alt up to or close to my mains ilvl will take more time. luv the vids metro hope you have a safe trip this weekend.
Thanks a lot, that means a lot that you say that.
You do not need to have your alts fully geared to play them though haha.
That's just a second main at that point!
I just think it's a little gross for CE raiders now have to grind twice the number of aspects to finish upgrading (because let's be real, there's no way Blizzard doesn't tune mythic raids against the best acquirable gear).
Mythic raids are getting a gradual nerf. Not sure how often or how strong, but its going to be really big by the end. So tuning is pretty much irrelevant unless you are a RWF guild.
@@heythereguysitsMetro By that logic you never need to upgrade your gear, though.
I really like the Awakened track and Bullions. I like how the Awakened track just goes 1 to 12 or whatever, it doesn't go from lowest possible to highest, but it goes from a point you care about to high enough. Other than that, I wouldn't care about it if they didn't put the best loot in the raid. Do I feel like I need the best loot in the game, no, I don't, but I just feel like I'm being toyed with. Power is taken from us, given back, taken, given, taken, tweaked, you get tier sets, you don't, you get cool tier, you get voted in tier, now you get super generic tier that gives 2% more damage or whatever, sometimes we get Bullions and emblems, sometimes we don't. It's getting ridiculous and needs to come to a meridian.
I'm with you on not caring about the gear though. The only thing I care about is I'm stacking the right stat, it's gonna get upgraded or replaced eventually.
Well that's just how seasons work in games. They need to do these things to keep people engaged season after season.
The "sometimes we get bullions" isn't a thing either. Its only for season 4, and only because the raids rotate. They gave buillions and before that "dinars" because you can't possibly do the raid every week, so you have a very low chance of ever even seeing some of these items.
I actually like this change.
For me personally, anything that increases how long it takes to get the best of something is a good thing.
Although I know my opinion is not popular., I find this actually to be more fun to me.
It's nearly a reward for those who have more time to sink. And I'm ok with that.
This idea that everyone should be treated equally creates a rather dull world imo.
IMO this gives more incentive for people to play, and creates a barrier between Mythic+ and raids where raids are kind of now a little more appealing
due to this. Raids you get that piece of gear already at that level. Where as mythic plus it could take time. I think this also gives way to profession
top pieces and their worth.
I can see how this would upset allot of people tho who just see it as a time gate. For me tho I see it doing more good than bad in the long run.
I totally agree with you. To say this isn't "popular" is only because people are entitled or consumed with this needless comparison to each other.
This isn't something that should be popular or not. This should be the default way everyone thinks about the video game they are choosing to play.
@@heythereguysitsMetro Yes!! 100%
retail has way to many convoluted systems stacked on top of each other for no actual reason
@@Sodacacik well there is a reason obviously. They are trying to keep the community engaged.
What confuses me in all of this is the amount of people that complain about "just 1 item a week" bit, as if they could previously get multiple myth track pieces from M+ a week.
To me, the change seems to be that you can now go 2 levels higher than before, but you start a little lower. 4/6 should still be the same in relative power as 4/4, so in the end it's more power no?
As for the whole thing about ilvl and doing M+ being "impossible" if not maxed, I'll say this.
None of my characters that did all +10s were maxed, and very few of the people I had in my pugs were maxed, even late in the season. Most of you people out there will never be maxed, and it won't really matter unless you are pushing for title.
So don't worry about it, as the majority of people do not even raid mythic, so you would be "competing" against a small number of people anyway. Stop acting that mythic raiders will come and steal your 8+ group spot on your alt.
Good perspective. As you surmise, most people are being less than fair with their complaining. That's not a new problem with this game sadly.
Basically every piece is equivalent to very rare gear currently. That's a lot of extra crests needed to max all your pieces. I'm okay with this. However, I don't think it meshes with thier stated intent of alts being easier in this expac. Add a catchup of some sort (other than flightstone costs) and I'm probably okay with this. As for crafted, if every myth track piece is 10 ilvls higher then I'll never spend 60 crests to craft a piece. I'll always prioritize the myth track piece.
I don't think they ever said alts would be easier to be full bis in lol...
They just made more content you can do casually and still get gear from, like how they made delves and also gave a vault option from delves.
People obsessing about bis gear for alts are just hindering their own fun.
An alt is just meant to be something you mess around on, not maximize every single slot in.
@heythereguysitsMetro lol, you and I play alts differently then. I tend to gear a main, then gear alts so that if I want to switch next season the toon is ready. This will make that a much longer process. Still too early to pass judgment either way IMO.
@@hermitsfool So you just QUIT your main all together and start working on a second toon just in case!?
We don't just play alts differently, we play the GAME differently lol.
I am not switching mains under any circumstance, and I am certainly not gearing toons I don't enjoy playing just in case.
@heythereguysitsMetro to be clear. I don't play toons I don't enjoy. I just enjoy most classes, especially healers. Several classes have been my 'main' since i started in vanilla. And yea, usually have a goal of gearing main, get to 3k and then play other toons. It's a game. Play the way you want lol.
@@hermitsfool Right, well you have to understand they aren't making changes for people who constantly switch toons like this.
So play how you want, sure. But recognize that in a season with limited week count, you will always have these concerns.
Just jamming on your frozen orb idea. AFAIK Blizzard has as issue from specifically M+ that it is an infinite loot farm and because raid is not repeatable heroic raid is not valued for gearing.
So what if M+ only drops champion gear and then have a weekly allowance of tokens that upgrade champion gear to heroic and heroic gear to mythic for appropriate M+ levels.
To my knowledge on average a raid drops approx. 1 item per 5 players per boss. So about 1.6 items on average per player from the entire 8 boss raid[(8*(20/5))]/20.
Then each M+ drops champion gear as usual and every week you can find up to 2 hero tokens and 1 mythic token from appropriate M+ levels, with no catchup, can't earn more for missed weeks.
Vault could give tokens, of approrpiate level, instead of gear as well. Perhaps particular tokens for each content type, raid, M+ and delve each having their unique tokens.
Thinking in the right direction for sure. Love seeing that.
Ive never had BiS gear. And i preform just fine, some people are just absolutely too hung up on their ilvl, their numbers and what not. Alot of this is community reinforcement as well. If you try to get into a key and someone doesn't invite you cause your number isn't high enough, it has an effect that people only care about getting their number up
Right, well that's why I said what I said about the numbers. There are WAY bigger factors than just gear at play for while people are and aren't maximizing their overall dps in a mythic+ keystone.
Side note, I’m wondering how warbands will be with mythic+ loot. Like if you have someone in your group get loot that they don’t need but they keep it for their warband instead of passing it on to someone else in the pug who could use it. That would be cracked
I do not believe Mythic+ loot is warband tradeable. That would be front page news if it was, surely, and totally break the game.
Then the best way to play would be just play the meta always, and funnel gear to your alts.
From what I understand there are personal loot warbound items that are 1 track below what you get from the content you are doing, but the normal loot drops aren't changing.
There are warbound drops that I believe are seperate from the regular M+ drops you get. I don't know how often they drop but I have seen them.
Hot take - im fine with a longer grind to reach BiS, but they should let you exchange vault tokens for bullion so m+ players can eventually get the raid items too.
That would be pretty cool! Instead of a socket, you can take a bullion!
The upgrade track has been pretty good for this honestly, normal mode raid items are EASILY obtainable and also upgradable to a decent ilvl, especially from end bosses
I don’t like the idea of crafted gear NOT being able to get max. Your crafted gear should feel solid . I get it’s only 10 level but it feels super bad. I’d be fine with maybe only letting two items reach max (like embellishments)
@@Opposegaming they changed it like 30 minutes after this published.
I just want the crests and flightstones to not be so insanely unfun to farm. If a tiny item level increase is what is barring progress - those people have much bigger issues and are absolutely not going to admit it. I'm not going to repeat what the guy talking about depleted keys and crests said because they nail it on that point. I just want the actual progression to be less tedious in terms of currency. I heroic raid and I'll go maybe 1 or 2 levels past when gear stops upgrading with keys if fun with friends is on the table. Totally fine with mythic raiding giving the highest gear. It's not even a comparison how much more difficult that shit is and people are not going to admit that. Yes a tiny item level increase will help. It's not going to carry the day and the very highest end pushers prove that.
I will miss a couple item levels. I don't care. Fucking whoopty doo. Those same top end raiders doing mythic are the same people pushing keys to insane limits without any gear at all. I feel like that fact alone says it all. I just want the grind to feel more fun. I ultimately want to play more characters throughout an expansion. The way crests are I feel like is potentially one of the best ways gearing has ever been but is just missing a few things that could push it to the best. More specifically the fact that there's just too many upgrade materials. I've usually moved on to another character before I finish the myth track on all my pieces because it's just not enjoyable at all. And even then you go to a different character and it just feels awful because now you realistically gotta push through 4 different sets of currencies to upgrade and its just a whole mess. I want one currency that is shared and rewards me for playing and rewards more for doing higher end content. I don't care if Billy Boob who can't do normal raid "just move" mechanics has the same gear as me. I grew out of that a decade or so ago. I just want to be able to get there faster if I choose to do higher end content. Totally fine if it also means I don't get the very highest end gear. Fun should ultimately always be the goal. The current system is not fun. That is the much much much bigger issue at the end of the day.
This might be unrelated in some ways but I just feel like this game would be better if the whole progression currency was just condensed to one currency or streamlined in a similar way. If people would just admit that it's not actually that big of a deal that Dingleberry McFartface struggling to do a normal dungeon is getting the same gear as someone doing heroic raiding and 10's - the game would be better. Make it to where that guy takes a long time to get there compared to someone who is actually trying. Over half these people are just buying carries for their gear anyways so who gives a shit. Give 'em the item level they ask for - doesn't change the fact that they suck. People have always found ways to filter. Ever since carrying became "Acceptable" - people are doing it left, right, and center. It has been rampant this expansion. Don't ever hear anyone complaining about that. This mythic track stuff is just such a non issue. We have one particular player in our group who just kills every spec he plays and every key he does because he actually tries and is very good at the game. He prepares, has strategies, very specific routes and notes throughout the dungeons. He practices and learns every spec he plays in and out and does the little annoying things that push his numbers far above everyone else and competes on a very competitive realm. Not because is item level is higher. I get that people want to get their item levels as high as possible but I also think it's totally fine that the very highest peak is locked behind the very hardest content that requires a considerable group effort and guild play. Just make the stuff before that more fun man. Drakes, wyrms, and aspects are not fun. They are the reason I have not been gearing alts anywhere near as much. I don't really like flightstones being added ON TOP OF THAT but that's a whole other issue. You have to go through 4 different currencies and it's terrible no matter what level of content you are playing. Not one person out there is going to go "This is fun." I have almost nothing positive to say about this expansion but one thing I cannot say is that I enjoyed gearing. On another side tangent that's also related - you have one side going "We can't have casuals have that" and the other going "But what about the casuals" and it's like watching 13 year olds fight over pointless nonsense that ultimately doesn't matter. Maybe toddlers crying over the fact that the other toddler has shinier toys is more appropriate. Shit's stupid. I'd say just about everyone loses with the current way gearing is done unless you really like unbelievably tedious boring grinds that do not feel good and/or rewarding.
Biggest thing I can reply with here is that you can just push keys and not worry about crests. You get them along the way. I never once did a single key I didn't need score from just for crests, and all my gear is fully upgraded.
they just buffed Crafted gear to 336 and Hero track gear is now even worse than before , and why ppl are mad is cuz A) you need 1050 crest and gearing will take you 4 more weeks and B) if your bis trinket/proc item comes from a Key then well GG doesnt matter cuz a rnd trash raid triket that is 10ilvl higher will outperform it by 2% and you will feel misrable playing arround a gimick
That's not even close to how trinkets work in practice.
Maybe in theory, but again IM WEARING A TRINKET FROM LAST SEASON.
that upgrade track item idea would be sick
Ya, its crazy that they haven't done that, AND no one suggests it. Seems like an obvious solution that has already been shown to work in different parts of this game.
Most of the problem with the community lies in the fact that everyone wants to min-max their time for reasons that makes no sense without realizing they have a choice.
@@achilliestv7886 absolutely agree. The problem is even more specific than that too. The reason is that they are competing with each other even though wow doesn't design itself to be like this.
what you said at 16 minutes in is the key, if they rolled out that change no one would be mad right? because we would all see that we are getting buffed and would feel happy to get gear from normal/heroic/dungeon whatever. But they very clearly removed that from the game when they went from valor to crest, and since they arent going back if i do all my dungeons and fill up my vault and on week 2 i get a repeat mythic track piece that i already have equipped, I have fallen farther behind relative to where i would have been in DF no?
That's correct yes, but that's not relevant to anything.
They make changes all the time between seasons.
Falling behind relative to a previous expansion is not what is being discussed here, but regardless, you'd have to be EXTREMELY unlucky to have 3 chances in your second week and all three of those be the same item you took from your first week.
@@heythereguysitsMetro it can happen, like alot .... (def not to me)
@@gxxkc8074 haha
Seems like the WoW community can not stop playing agame on top of the actual game. Just play as much as you can and want and do what this gives you. But they seem to now go the other route and say "well now it takes more compete keys/raids to get ressources to upgrade, so I have top play more" and of course this will always be demotivating, because the motivation to play is not the game but getting the best outcome. So many players would be better off playing single player games
@@LordCartmanGaming ten thousand percent agreed.
Oh look, forums complain about a buff, with this change you overall end with a higher Ilevel but it takes a week or two more to fully upgrade, is that really the end of the world? i sincerely don't understand the complain, it's literally makes no sense
It's all borne from people comparing themselves to others instead of the actual content. Almost all these issues stem from that and form because influencers who focus on it trick people into thinking they should focus on it too, by not giving an alternative viewpoint.
Four upgrade levels vs. six upgrade levels. I don't understand the problem - many people aren't even going to see this level of gear. Arguing about something that will not even be attainable for yourself as a player is ridiculous.
I agree that the MoP Remix gearing was a good model. If you want the highest level and the desire tto gather the resources for upgrades, it would be available to you. People just need to play and enjoy the game.
@@jmtenet211 Play and enjoy the game is the end to all this for sure.
@@asasdsaasda if it only took a week or two longer people wouldn’t have much of an issue, have you seen the number comparison of how many resources you need now to fully upgrade compared to DF? It’s literally over double the amount of resources/dungeons needed to be completed in order to fully upgrade. This isn’t some “week or two longer” change……
@@TheHashtagSquad2K15 Again, I don't see what the problem is, you will pretty much 'upgrade' two characters easily by the time the season ends, to me it sounds like people want to everything done in 2/3 weeks +, its beta, they can change the numbers anytime they want, the fact that you can update your gear to mythic rare level is a win no matter how you look at it
It seems that most of the complaining is coming from people who only want to M+ and don't want to raid. What about from the perspective of a person who wants to primarily raid? They still are essentially forced to do M+ every week for crests and the vault. Every season I usually get my upgrade pieces from the M+ slots.
The people saying that they'll have to clear the mythic raid every week is just ridiculous. Do they know how many groups are clearing it every week? Not many.
I think that mythic raiding in general is just more difficult than M+ for most people. I'm not talking about doing like 15+ keys, but doing a 10 (max rewards) is far easier than mythic raiding aside from maybe the first few bosses in raid. I think the whole point of this change is to nerf the raids over time as Blizzard has already said they felt like nerfs were too slow for some bosses in DF.
I also think that by the time you would be able to upgrade all mythic items to 6/6, you'd probably have mostly mythic items from your vault as an M+ only player anyway. I overall feel like this change won't impact M+ players at all. I think it's their way of nerfing the more difficult end raid bosses.
Good points and agreed all around.
Personally was thinking this was a bad change until it was explained that every item (outside crafted) will be able to now go up to the uber rare unique boss drops then I was mostly whatever that is cool I guess. The fact that m+ weekly only rewards 1/6 mythic gear still winkles me a bit. Only being able to upgrade like half an item a week is going to extend the crest farm way past the point at when it stops being fun. If they maybe remove the cap at the .5 patch and increase the amount we get from content I think that would help then change my mind.
Best way to handle it is just not farm for them. Just get them from doing progression keys.
@@heythereguysitsMetro They need to remove the less crest from not timing keys. I'd love it to work that way but if you are really pushing your limits then you are failing 70%+ of the keys you attempt. So if I'm trying to keep up with vault and crest cap I feel like I need to do homework before I can do the fun stuff or I'll fall behind. I guess it is in my own head but once I get to far behind the curve I just stop wanting to log in to not be a burden to my groups.
@@voodoo1069 100 percent in your own head, ya. You will never be a "burden" because you haven't maximized every single slot of your gear.
But I do agree with the crest comment. They need to change how crests work outright in my eyes.
@@heythereguysitsMetro Lol ya but I think a lot of people fall into that when you build up memories of all the times you fail a prog key buy 10-30 seconds while having 2-3 deaths or wiping on a raid boss at sub 1%. Sure you could play better but you are likely already playing at your personal limit. So you think back about how if you just had another upgrade or two you could had made up that difference. Once you are gear capped tho it removes that doubt and you just focus on you could had done better.
@@voodoo1069 Right, that's why I said its all in your own head.
You should be worried about playing better the day the season starts, not weeks into it lol...
I mean I get that you dont care when all you do is spam keys, but for normal people it was already quite the grind with upgrading all gear when we get 12 crests per run and 5 fpr deplete. Basically doubling that grind is insane and yes, it’s fine for a main to have some things to do but it is so extremely alt unfriendly already snd even more with this longer track. It’s a login logout kind of situation when you realize that oh 45min per key everything included and I have to do 50+ keys.
@@oneman9620 there is no reason to grind it. You just do progression keys and get crests. I have never once done a key for crests and my gear has all been upgraded for weeks now.
@@heythereguysitsMetro but you realize that despite the fact that you play less now than you used to, you easily belong to the top 3% of players (if not even 1 or 2 %) in regards to time investment per week? Not sure if your perspective on time is that relevant to the discussion.
@@ThomasBachler01 I wouldn't say so no
I think at this point the only option for blizzard is to take the gearing system from GW2 and modify M+ to the exact same system as fractals. This removes the need for upgrade systems what so ever, casuals can't complain that they don't have the same gear as mythic raiders, and all problems will be solved. I would hate if they did this, but it seems this is the only way that no one has an advantage over anyone else.
I don't think having everything upgradable from 0-100 is a good idea. It works in mop remix because there is nothing to it, its a game mode were blizzard can just screw around and let everything just be crazy. Adding that upgrade system to retail is not going to solve any of the problems that casuals are crying about right now. If anything it'll just make it worse. you will still need to grind for what ever the upgrade currency is, and the most lucrative way will probably still be in M+. Then the question has to be asked how much farming needs to be done? If its super easy to farm all your upgrades and have mythic ilvl gear than really whats the point of having the upgrade system and not just giving everyone mythic ilvl gear and changing how the game works around that? If there is even some moderate difficulty to upgrading your gear to that level we are in no different position as now.
I've grown tired of this playerbase and the constant need for ilvl to be the most important thing to them. I loved the gear grind we had up until titanforging. Since titanforging, casuals have had the easiest time getting gear at higher ilvls than ever before and its still not good enough and as long as there is even a 2 ilvl difference between a 10 h/week player and an 80h/week player it seems it'll never change.
This all coming from someone who spent more time typing this than playing wow this week, and having probably an average of 6hours a week playtime.
Hmm no idea what fractals are. But the gear system described from Remix already exists with the raid items you can buy from bullions in season 4. It works fine there!
The problem is the grinding amount, as you said. Would be hard to design perfectly to not encourage people to play 40 hours a week just to get the currency.
@@heythereguysitsMetro wow has vertical gear progress in which you do content to get higher ilvl gear to do the next content to get higher ilvl gear. Guild wars 2 has horizontal gear progression which basically means everyone in the game has the same ilvl and the game is balanced around that. It also means that gear that I got 12 years ago is the Best gear to wear now. Your gear progression is just cosmetics.
Fractals are guild wars 2 m+ dungeons, which came out before m+. If I recall fractals don’t scale infinitely they go from 0-100. Because you don’t upgrade gear how the fractals work is a damage debuf called “agony” that constantly damages you. To progress to the next level of difficulty you have to get agony resistance on your gear which causes this damage debuff to do less damage to you. The the agony damage increases every level so the agony resistance you need to keep going up in levels need to increase as well. This means unlike wow you can’t just jump into a m+5 because the agony damage would one shot you.
@@Hell0spawn0doug Ah well I don't think they will be changing how mythic+ works to accomplish this. This is a much more far-reaching problem than just M+.
That sounds more like Horrific Visions though from BFA. Was fun, but not really competitive content.
Pretty funny you make this at like the exact time crafted gear is updated to be 636
@@faxxie9964 ya to be fair I made it like four hours earlier but published it like 15 minutes before they made their post hahaha
People comment on Wowhead articles only to hate on the game. Its best to ignore them.
You could ignore them. Or you could profit off them... :P
people are angry because things take longer and people want everything as soon as possible. they also want all alts to be easier to fully gerar than mains or else blizzard is doing a bad job and making things terrible for them. there is literally no making things good enough for these players.
ya sadly seems so.
Just a small rant, 😳 31 min video. Seriously tho I could listen to u read and comment on wowhead news for ages
@@quintit haha ya the comments are separate from the rant. I enjoy this type of content though, if you see a topic you want me to do lemme know! I feel like some might not be interesting enough.
I don't know why they crying about. We get a few extra ilvl and the gear accordion gets stretched wider that's all
I believe I showed off what they were crying about in the video haha
@@heythereguysitsMetro you have. Sorry just my way of speech on how silly I think the reason they are crying about.
If they aren't having fun any more then I think they need a break
@@noxyoshi totally with you on that!
I don't get why even Myth track exists. Pinnacle/ultimate/mythic content exists in almost all other games as a challenge mode which reward usually prestige stuff, like cosmetics or some currency or titles. But for some reason people who are like 10% up on skill and 50%-100% up on time available to play and do mythic raiding, get additional 20% more damage/survivability/healing from gear than everyone else just because we need to extend the treadmill for them as well. Oh no Max from Limit gets geared in 2 weeks lets extend that treadmill so the top 0,1% doesn't get geared so fast.
Then what will Blizzard do is balance the content based on the max available gear, making already unfriendly difficulty of +10 to PuGs even worse, so that they can have the E-Sports speed running and continually make game shittier for vast majority of its population. AND NO, I DON"T WANT TO RUN A +7 instead of +10. This is infinitely scaling system and +10 should be doable in a PuG with people who have a base understanding of what is going on.
When people say game is being made and balanced around Limit and Echo this is what they mean. Mythic raiding is so unapproachable to 90% of player base but almost everything in game is balanced around it. Augmentation Evoker is being nerfed into a ground because Limit has a spreadsheet which makes it OP in their raid, so now for everyone else that spec is close to useless. Oh, pro M+ team is pulling half a dungeon and CCing everything, better make every single mob in this dungeon have 3 mechanics so that those 0,001% players don't pull too much. Who cares if that makes game shitty and not understandable for general population without reading a 5000 words Wowhead article about trash mechanics in a dungeon.
Blizzard is so hellbent on making the best players in the world play how the Blizzard intends them to play that they are making game impossible for the rest of the player base.
I don't really understand much of your comment, but I think that's because your first sentence is not connecting to the rest.
Mythic track gear exists because its the gear that used to come from Mythic raiding. Its always had gear, so everything else you are ranting on with that topic in mind is not really relevant.
But I do agree that the top of the top have far too much of an impact on the game, and unfortunately I think you have fallen prey to it as well with this comment.
The game isn't "impossible" for the rest of the playerbase because of how Blizzard designed it.
Its impossible because the players are constantly comparing themselves TO the top players instead of the content they are doing.
If you just work on getting better every time you log in, you wont be complaining about mobs having 3 mechanics.
Really weird thing to even read tbh.
@@heythereguysitsMetro first time you ever hear about over-designed dungeons? Come on dude. Mechanic vomit is going crazy and even MDI players are acknowledging it as trash mobs simply do too much. And why they do too much? Because Blizzard wants to stop multi pack pulls. Which is then a problem for PuG groups because every single pack has 5 mandatory stops.
@@brkus2665 You are just super off about how you present it all. Using "three mechanics" as an example is facepalm tbh.
Thanks for your thoughts, but you honestly just sound super entitled.
@@heythereguysitsMetro I sound super entitled? You just pretended not to understand a comment which said: Now I have to do 8 "grind" runs to max out my piece of gear instead of 5.
You sound like straw manning and/or gaslighting is the only way for you to win an argument.
@@brkus2665 There isn't really an argument here in my eyes. You are just venting, and in the wrong place.
I didnt like the gearing system in DF and the one in TWW wont be any better imo. I prefered the late SL one where it was basically 1-18 where it had rating limits for X ilvl upgrade or w.e. Sure on my main the crest system is w.e cuz ill be doing the keys but not being able to upgrade my gear till its replaced cuz i dont wanna do low keys is annoying.
I think the 4-6 was bad choice if it means you will have to farm more crest (i asume it does) and is kinda just annoying. Its not a big deal but still just seems unnecessary
It will mean more crests are needed yes. But its just free power you didn't have before. So if you think getting more power relative to the season is unnecessary you may cast that vote.
For me, I prefer more power and player growth always. It helps make the season not feel like its totally over a few weeks in, like season 4 did.
@@heythereguysitsMetro yea i guess its better than no changes though i would prefer just being able to grind w.e key level and upgrade the gear no matter if its a +5 or a +10 and just max that item out if i wanted to
@@Yugelol I agree that they should allow the item level of any gear to be limited only by the seasonal cap. That would fix all these problems.
"Crafting gear has been nerfed" i think the message trying to be conveyed is:
The amount of crafted gear that you wear at BiS level when your character has "finished gearing" has been significantly reduced, to the point where most people are considering crafted gear no longer being a part of the end game of gear, and thats a bit of a shame imo
Well that's not true either, because crafted gear even right now is still not BIS ilvl and I'm still wearing it.
The thing that's so nice about it is you can pick your stats! Many would trade a lot of item level for that, even though I would not.
@@heythereguysitsMetro its not about it being BiS ilvl (every single BiS list for every class includes crafted gear currently) - its about the fact that the embelishments are(as it currently stands as of prepatch) minimally better and could overcome the current item level gap, but in the new expansion will not be able to overcome that gap due to the gap being much larger.
Look man, i just want crafted gear item level to go up, i dont really care about the mythic gear track getting more slots - i care more about the disparity
@@johnthebarbarian My recommendation is not not worry about it then, or try to compare what we have now to this.
This is simply better, unless you are a top world player and some one who clears the Mythic raid very fast.
update: after the recent crafting buff, everything is awesome
This new system will make it longer to go to max ilvl. Max ilvl will always be what m+ player will go for.
The worst is probably that crafted gear will lose a lot of interest.
Right, and I am saying that getting to max item level isn't the only thing players should go for, nor should that be quick to do.
There was a dev response today that crafted gear will go up to 636 illvl so crafted gear will either be the same value or better if they aren't also increasing the amount of crests needed to make them.
@@crat831 Good point about crests. That could be a big x-factor in this.
this kind of thing can blindside people
I was more talking about the conversation being so pointed, not really the changes themselves.
Obviously there are a lot of changes on the beta over the course of its lifespan.
I think people are mainly upset because whether we like it or not mythic raiding will become the best way to gear your character, and all though having absolute BiS in every piece is not mandatory to play the game at high levels people just want to do it, whether it's personal gratification or pointlessly comparing themselves to the best players in the game. But to get back on why the idea of mythic raiding is upsetting to a lot of people, it comes down to just how much gate-kept it is to get into a guild that mythic raids. Most guilds already have teams of constant 20 players that push CE, and some of the requirements to join such guilds are completely insane. Honestly I think it is easier to get into an ivy league college then to get into a top 250 guild, another main reason why people are so upset is the crests, upgrading your gear to max will take longer, and it kinda kills alts. People are so put off playing alts just because the required crests. I know this doesn't apply to you since you play a single character, but many people can't really say the same. Another thing I want to mention, I would love if they buffed how many crests M+ drops, 12 for a timed key whether it's a +6 or +16 just shouldn't be a thing, the higher you go, the more you should get, and they should completely remove the -6 if the key depletes but is finished. It is way too punishing.
Sounds like mythic raiding will be much much easier to do this season though. Between cross realm guilds, no lock on when its puggable, and the stacking buff, sounds like mythic raid will be puggable very early and often now.
But ya, or you can just not raid like me and have fun!
@@heythereguysitsMetro Blizzard just announced like 15 minutes ago that the crafted gear will cap out at 636 for season 1 of TWW. So it isn't going to be like 10-12 item levels lower, whatever people said. It will be 3.
@@heythereguysitsMetro Depends on how the lockout is done, my guild used to dabble in mythic raid back in BFA but often had to pug one person sometimes 2. We stopped because more often than not we'd have to reprogress on bosses because one of the pugs took the lockout the following week. Unless lockout extending is changing, pugging mythic raid is going to be unlikely as you simply can't trust strangers not to steal it. On the other hand if lockout works like on any other difficulty the guild might start dabbling again. Though fun to do at our own pace, It was hard enough sometimes with the herd of cats in one corner and the school of goldfish in the other to progress some bosses, the pugging experience killed mythic raiding for the guild. Mainly because of the lockout mechanics being the way they are still currently. /ramble
@@her0268 LOL
Waiting for the new complaints then that crafted gear is now the only way to gear up.
@@ReatuKrentor Oh that's interesting. Ya they are still using the old style lockout. There are a lot of ways to prevent people from stealing them though. Should be tons of threads on doing it from the old days, maybe even classic.
The top few percent of M+ers are perpetually disappointed, I usually make it until the last couple seasons and im done until the next expansion. I dont care about gear at all, I get what I get and ultimately I just like the role im playing in a dungeon and getting better at executing it.
That's the way to do it for sure. If you just play what you play for fun and play the content the best you can, the gear comes secondary.
23:18 my man I'm sorry to say but language has never been this precise. What you want is people to elaborate on their internalized definitions via context and specific language, but the fact of the matter is that people use terms with loose or flimsy definitions as a way to figure out who agrees with them/mask their own biases instead of using it as pure information transfer.
I think the best thing here is to engage in dialog with people and uncover what they're *really* upset with. Most often I find it's not what they originally say, but something else tilting their perspective and making their surface level opinions less relatable
Not sure why you are saying this honestly. Language is absolutely more obscure when you are using loosely defined memes as speech bridges.
Literally just went through this with my mom's friend. Had to explain to her what "sus" and "cap" meant, and those are at least more concrete in their usage.
Transforming language like we have on the internet makes everyone more confused by default. I can only imagine what its like to learn English now.
But ya, I agree about the "mask their own bias" thing to some degree. I just think most people use phrases they don't even understand because its trendy and it just makes everyone less able to communicate as the trends continue.
@@heythereguysitsMetro as for why I bring it up, honestly I'm not sure either. I respect your opinions and well thought out responses I suppose, and thought you might add something new to the issue of rapidly evolving language on the internet.
I think you're right that much of the problem is in people's heads, but I think the solution lies elsewhere.
The system was good cause with crafting and heroic raiding you weren't far off to the myth track. Now you either mythic raid or behind 10 weeks thru vault. Is this really hard to understand?
Yes, because I don't raid and I played non-meta all season and still finished under top 1 percentage.
Gearing through vault is very normal for Mythic+, and raiding is not some new thing being pushed on people.
I also don't understand what has happened with hero track.
You can explain that to me if you want, but I know currently I am still wearing a few hero track items and they are not holding me back at all.
And that's as a Blood DK who benefits the most out of any spec in the game from raw item level over secondary stats etc.
This is the first expansion that I have become less enthused for the closer we get to launch. Now I agree some of this is down to out of context datamining and "opinions" of content creators. However, a significant part of this is down to Blizzard and the discontinuity between words and actions. As an example my first thought on testing / watching the new dungeons + affixes was... "managing cognitive load my ass". Plus it sort of feels as though they've got themselves into a cognitive loop they cannot get out of... ameliorating symptoms rather than adressing root cause, and in doing so making more problems that they have to band aid... so round and round they go.
"ameliorating symptoms rather than adressing root cause"
This has been how development has been going since Cata.
So no offense, but you just weren't paying attention before if you feel like this expansion is an outlier.
Its only outlier is that its all happening very close to launch, were stuff like this would have been done months earlier in say DF beta.
@@heythereguysitsMetro I've played WoW since EU servers are a thing so I know all to well how bad they are at fixing problems. Now I agree that some of this is down to it being so close to launch as opposed to during beta. So yes it is somewhat of a perception issue. However, the point I was making (albeit badly) is that Blizzard are further contributing the issue with the more obvious difference between what they say (now that they communicate more) and what actually gets implemented. Still, I also accept that it may just be a case of me getting to old for all these shenanigans... especially as a melee player.
@@jonathanmawson6867 Ya, I think its just your perception. I don't really see anything different here, other than two things that we already discussed.
Its funny actually, because you are right that them communicating more is causing more issues than its fixing in some cases.
Wild times.
the issue with this change is how long it will take to gear up, but if crests become tradable to alts then i don't have any problem with it
That isn't an issue with it at all. You have something like 20+ weeks each season. No need to be geared and done in under half that, is there?
@heythereguysitsMetro well on your main, no, but deciding to play a dps alt half way through the season is bad enough already. Doubling that will just literally make gearing an alt impossible. For my main, I like the extra grind though. Overall I don't dislike this, but that's my only gripe lol
@@Recreantsmile Alts are never going to be fully geared, that's why they are alts.
No need to worry about that. Just play the alt and have fun!
(currently at the start of the video so take what I say with a pinch of salt).
None of this "news" is confirmed in any way.
The main reason this change is questionable is because it makes the raid end boss rare drops useless (ilvl wise).
For all we know the 6/6 is just a tooltip bug.
My guess is that 6/6 always existed in the spaghetti code in the game except step 5 and 6 were previously disabled and only applied to the special items.
I suppose its possible this is a bug, but I would not expect it to be.
@@heythereguysitsMetro for sure. For me personally it's a welcome change if it isn't a bug. But we shall see soon enough what the deal is :)
@@Kouros_ttv Ya only a few weeks left anyway at this point haha
These changes are devastating for people who wanna push for the title but don't have a mythic raiding guild. The push for the title is usually pretty much done after a first couple of weeks. By the time M+ only players catch up most players will be done with pushing and you will be stuck playing with bad players to push. 6 iLvL difference in DF was manageable, 13 iLvL won't be.
This change isn't devastating to anyone in any way, and you have not changed my mind on that with this commentary that you believe the title push is "pretty much done" after a first couple weeks. That doesn't even make sense to me at all.
Either way, 13 item level is not anything you need to "manage." You will get these items from the vault weekly.
@@heythereguysitsMetro Title pushers who have access to mythic raid will do mythic raid and hit the item cap or get very close to it 2-3 weeks into the season. They will hit the ilvl cap very quickly because they will get 2/6, 4/6 myth track items from raid which will require fewer crests to upgrade and they will not use any of their crests on heroic gear.
M+ only players will get 1/6 myth track gear from the vault every week. Assuming they are lucky and get an upgrade from the vault every week (which is not likely) it's gonna take 13 weeks for them to hit the ilvl cap.
By the time they hit the ilvl cap most title pushers will be done with M+ because this season will not have affixes, so no more push weeks. They will all just jump straight into it, get the keys done and be done with M+.
If you wanna casually push and don't care about IO score, sure these changes won't affect your gameplay but people who wanna push for the title need the ilvl to survive high keys. Nobody is gonna invite a 613 ilvl guy to a +15/+16 key in the first week when they can just wait a bit longer and get a raider with +620 ilvl and yes there will be people with 625-630 ilvl characters in the first week while m+ only pusher will be stuck somewhere around 615 if they manage to get full heroic track gear from spamming M+.
Yes if very specifically you want to push for 0.1% title but not mythic raid and your BIS item is irreplaceable from raid AND wasn't already one of those super rare items there is now a bigger gap from the heroic to the mythic item. Which limits it to trinkets and maybe one of those rings with a special effect being worse. Although even that depends on exactly which boss drops it since the earlier mythic bosses tend to be pugable.
Everything else yes getting up to 6/6 myth track is going to take longer but is still equally acquirable for non mythic raiders. It will take longer. But that's also true for mythic raiders to an extend.
No the push for title isn't done after the first couple weeks. That's just not how that works. From about a month after S4 started till the end the rating went up another 250ish points in EU. But even if that was true that the top players get their best score in the first few weeks... ok so what? What they do doesn't matter. You can play at any time and get the score required for 0.1% aslong as it's before the cut off point.
@@hejkasolan3155 No one is going to PUG a 15/16 in the first week, so I have no fucking idea why you are bringing that up at all.
There will not be anyone 630 item level in the first week doing M+ either way. The people that item level will be the world first raiders, and as you know, they usually don't begin their mythic+ pushing until two weeks after the season launches, depending on how their progression raiding goes.
Either way, I can assure you that title is not decided until the absolute last day, so how long it takes you to gear up should not concern you for this at all.
@@luckygozer Because behind the curve is a real thing. If you ever check LFG for high keys during later parts of the season you will see that there are barely any keys listed. You either push early on or get left behind. This is how pugging has always been.
Or maybe we just remove m+?
?
I find it ironic that M+ players are crying about "having" to do raids, when the reverse has been the case since M+ became a thing. I prefer to raid, but since Legion the biggest barrier to my item level has been how reliably I can find a M+ group that particular season. I'm over here leaning back like CRY ME A FUCKING RIVER.
It is actually very strange, because I don't know why you would even need to do M+ at all unless you weren't successful in Mythic raid.
And if you aren't, then that means you are in a heroic guild, and if heroic guilds are telling you what to do... well
Let's stop there.
The community is backwards in many cases. That's enough said.
@@heythereguysitsMetro in the beginning of the tier M+ is the source of higher gear period. The first 1 or 2, maybe 3 bosses are mostly free, but the gear off them gets stale very quick, and then if your guild is good it is a new boss every 2 or 3 weeks on average. Look at the gear from the first 2 bosses of the raid, now imagine a group is in that and pre-raid/M+ gear, how well do you think they will do? Best case scenario, a raid won't make DPS checks. That 2-3 weeks becomes 4 to 5 on strictly raid gear. Probably more, remember S2 Sl? If you got the wrong shards/gear it really hurt you. Now since DF S2 and we can level up heroic gear so it isn't AS bad, but that's where it was for a long time.