Felt Pianos - How To Mix Them Into Your Music
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- čas přidán 1. 01. 2019
- Here are my views on mixing tracks that have felt pianos (or pianos that have the celeste pedal down) in them. From my live C114 Schimmel to a whole bunch of sampled felts in my arsenal from #spitfireaudio and #olafurarnalds. Here's where to get the free and commercial sample libraries used in this tes:
Spitfire Felt Piano: www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-...
Spitfire Soft (formerly "Felt) Piano (FREE): www.spitfireaudio.com/labs/
Olafur Arnalds Felt Grand: www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-...
My Triple Felt Experiment (FREE): www.dropbox.com/s/2beev8owro3...
...and that pianobook thing: www.pianobook.co.uk/ - Hudba
(just to help myself compare)
4:05 - original
5:17 - incr. volume to bring forward in the mix
6:09 - light compression
6:34 - EQ to pull down certain notes (reverb has been applied)
6:52 - soloed without reverb
7:18 - soloed with reverb (adding bit of short reverb can bring things together)
7:29 - mix again
Excellent analysis, Christian - informative as always
Beautiful simple piano piece. Brilliant video - among your best videos imo
I adore these tutorials. So easy to follow, engaging, thought-provoking and now I know how to wrangle my muddy felt piano samples! Huge fan of the mechanical sounds in your felt piano also.
Love these videos!!!! Nothing else on CZcams like this.
Brilliant video. Really useful. Thanks for making it.
Close between live and Felt. Gave it to Felt in the end as it sat in the mix in every part. Thanks for this gem of info!
I love the CH triple felt with those mechanical sounds in this particular arrangement, which has just the right amount of room for them, it's like gentle percussion. Lovely piece.
The live Schimmel was all the way the winner for me! Fantastic experiment and video Christian!
Love the Schimmel as it has a beautiful subtle ring to the tone at the end of each note. To me as much character as the triple felt brings, the inherent 'prettiness' of the live piano wins. Thanks for this - very enjoyable.
For me, the live recorded schimmel made the race! The way its midrange develops while it decays sounds lovely and suits the mix quite nicely. Greetings from Germany. Keep it up! :)
I actually appreciate the Triple Felt for the song. I also really loved the live recorded Schimmel, it was so beautiful and spacious, it made we want to have one to work with in my studio. Practical video. Thanks for making it.
Hearing your Schimmel was actually what made me fall inlove with Felt piano, I only have a cheap Zender piano I picked up for £250 but I hung some craft felt from the top & love the sound. With the hammers actually having to push quite a lot of felt instead of a strip gives a sound I think you'd like.
You can really hear the mechanism of the hammers and the brushing of them against the felt sheet.
Thanks always for the inspiration, tips & effort you put in to your video's.
Excellent, excellent tutorial, Christian! Thank you so much for this. I have all of the felt pianos you used (except for the live Schimmel of course!) and have often struggled to figure out which one to use in a project. This has helped tremendously. "If you are having to struggle to make it fit, it probably doesn't fit." Simple, but brilliant. Thanks again!
Love your channel. Love your work. I’d be curious to see an extensive video on all the HOD stuff, stems, managing a project, file naming, file management, etc. I’m starting to write some procedures for my own internal use and would love to hear anything you can share about your experiences. Thank you for the incredible value your channel brings to the community.
Triple Felt. That percussive sound of the hammers feels best and propels the piece forward to me.
I agree! :)
The Schimmel ! Thanks for the video !
Great sound, very inspiring
What a wonderful explanation. Letting it be louder is very simply the issue I've had for years. It finally solved the problem.
"Lipstick on babies" What an image. Oh and a great punk band name . . .
So good
All beautiful, but definitely the Schimmel for me. Thanks for quality content as always!
ah! the stereo trick where you access different samples is brilliant. i think this fares particularly well with triple felt -- seems to even "brighten" it up a bit with extra mechanical noise so it doesn't get lost in a world of low mids.
nice to also see someone use restraint with compression. composers can often slap a compressor on just for the heck of it. great example of you using your ears, not your eyes.
Very cool - thanks!
What a great video. Thanks ! I've struggled with my felted Sauter : sounds so gorgeous live and then when I record it, all the magic is gone. There's my Sunday taken care of.
Last comment. I Iiked the Olafur Felt Piano best. It felt (no pun intended!) the best balanced in terms of the call and response between the piano and violin melodies.
felt :D
The soft piano felt (ha!) like it worked better with the assignment then the other pianos. But that's just with this piece. This is ultimately a beauty contest, and all of the contestants are beautiful.
Oh thank you Christian to this nice video!
I totally agree about the mixing and the usage of plugins. Is very important to find and make the equilibrium first with the level, keeping the dynamics, the place in the sound space, revealing or hiding some détails or softly some frequencies, the pan and " surrounding " feeling and perception... et cætera. Is like cooking, if you have bad vegetables you will doesn't get something tastefully, you can try to put salt or some spices but, your cooked vegetables haven't tastes.
About the choice for the kind of Piano...
I feel, inside the score, something soft, delicate (not fragile), something to, perhaps, reveal or tell... I don't know, a bit drama asking to a certain way to pay attention between the characters. So, then:
- I like the "Live Schimmel" but I think and feel it a little bit to upon than the "Spitfire Felt Piano" that I prefer for the reasons that I wrote upper.
- "Spitfire Soft piano" could be nice as discreet thema inside some episodes for some scenes.
- "Olafur's Felt Grand" is great, I like him, but is more cinematographic... A bit to much for a serie...
- And, the "CH'S Triple Felt", I am pretty sure that is could be match to a specific scene, i.e. when a character tell something like secret or a revealing with close and soft voice as a whisper...
So, for me, modestly, I think the "Spitfire Felt Piano" is the right one and, in 2nd place the "Live Schimmel" (for an ending).
Cheers Christian, happy new year !
éliane
Live Schimel for that piece of music in particular. Brighter tone with my ears.
Olafur FTW. The EQ was better on that. The first 2 sounded boxed, and the Triple Felt centralises the cello, changing the emphasis. Awesome video. Thanks
The Schimmel played live was the winner for me. The other ones sounded dull to me. Spitfire soft was my runner up.
My actual favourite was the Schimmel without the celeste pedal, would’ve loved to hear that in the mix as well!
Very useful video, sir!
Somehow I started 2018 with none of these pianos and ended 2018 with all of them, so this was a very timely video for me!
Amazing video. Quite an achievement as well to talk for over 20 minutes about felt/soft pianos without mentioning Nils Frahm once ;) My favorite was your triple felt, it has a very interesting character.
I couldn't decide which one I liked best, but thought the first one was leading, and Olafur's was really nice too. Then the triple felt hit me. Devastating. Had to put headphones on to relisten, very deep sound, and I like how the mallets hitting the string have a crunchy/gainy/bit reduced quality to them.
Thanks a lot for pointing this out.I tend to forget about the fact that i maybe use the wrong Sound so often,while spending time fiddling around.I will be more awake in the future. :)
Thanks for your inspiring content you spread and have a fulfilled new Year Christian!
Best Regards
The Ólafur piano is the basis for most of my writing these days but the Schimmel live was the winner here for me!
Dead on, if you’re working too hard to make the sound right you don’t have the right sound. That triple Felt is... it just is. Well done!
Excellent CH! I would love to see more videos that illustrate how you make the choices you do. This should inspire me to do more comparisons of the instruments I have.
Personally, as others have mentioned, I loved the percussive quality of the 3x felt but it seemed a little distracting in this mix. Olafur's seemed the best here for me.
Sometime is not just about music its self, there is the story line with motion picture needed to be heard too, so I voted for CH's Triple Felt because it gave you the best supporting role and you wont become whole without it.
Another vote for the live Schimmel. There's a presence in the attacks which the other choices just don't possess, which helps it find its place in the mix beautifully. Really like the theme too. Calm with a sense of melancholy - just my thing :)
Hi!! Another great Video! I like all of them but I think would go with the live recorded one and weirdly my second choice would be the soft piano... I am sure that if I had the video you scored at I would understand more why you went with the triple felt one. :-) Happy New Year!
Schimmel would be my choice in this scenario, although they're all quite beautiful. It's a great point to make, the sounds being right, that is. I've begun taking away elements at what I feel is the end of a cue and often times find myself liking the cue much better (probably 60% of the time) with tracks reduced and sometimes certain instruments complete removed. When I was told by a very talented mix engineer friend in Nashville that I ought to be using EQ as a reductive tool first it changed the game for me. As always, well done Christian, many thanks.
I was surprised, because I preferred the triple felt when you introduced the contenders, but side-by-side, I found the live Schimmel (which means 'mold', BTW) to be the most touching and engaging
For me it was the Schimmel played live - as it felt less contained and added greater emotional depth. That having been said - in the larger context of the project a more contained piano might be more desirable - Listening without imagery is completely different than guided listening with imagery and as part of a whole most instruments need to be more contained. Aesthetically though it was definitely Schimmel played live. Computationally - I preferred the triple felt that you ended up using Christian - The percussive clunks ad great depth and emphasize the overall emotion of the piece very well. Beautiful piece of music - enjoyed it very much.
Christian! Coudl I borrow your ears´, let say....twice a week? You are so passionate about what you do that it shines through your tutorials...It makes them sooooo educative. Thanks a lot for everything you do...
Thank you
I’ve found that your triple felt piano fits & feels better in music I’ve written but keep questioning it as it was free!
The Live Schimmel and Spitfire soft piano in my opinion work really well
Love the sound of the felted piano. Going to experiment to see how close I can get to replicating the sound..
Really good video, thanks Christian! On the doc I am currently working on, I have been using the felt piano's as a base to layer on top of. In many cues you can't tell that it's a piano at all but if you mute it the whole vibe of the melody disappears. I'm using layers of lap steel, charango, cuatron and bits from Omnisphere to all play the melody with the felt piano's underneath playing the same melody.. Really effective. And did not work with normal, un-felted ( is that a word? ) pianos.
I always wondered what the middle pedal was for. Now I know! BTW, the difference between a grand and an upright becomes even more apparent with the felt.
Live Schimmel is my favorite : it sits perfectly in the mix. Feels presence without mud or interferences.
I like the Spitfire Soft too.
The triple felt could work but the noise of mechanics is interfering with the rhythmic elements - cymbals mostly.
OA feels a little too bright for this soft "velvety" arrangement.
I agree with you that a sound may not be right if you’re working too hard to fit it in.
As for my preference, I like the triple felt for the mood, but I’d stack it onto the same part played on the Schimmel so as to get the added ringing tones from that piano (but have it lower in the mix).
Having said that, it may not work ! 😂 so I’ll pick one, as you requested, and vote.
I like to use parallel compression on soft pianos, it's great to keep natural attacks but dense sustain.
I liked each of them for different reasons, but I think the Shimmel accomplishes two things: 1) Sits well in the track and (2) gently commands just enough attention; like a distinguished person who walks into the room...
Probably the most personally useful video you've made. Only today I was trying to get the Simcock to sit with strings and woodwinds without getting lost
Simcock takes EQ very well. It's one you can really high shelf without it sounding unnatural.
Just picked up the new felt piano from the originals line. I’ve been using it, panning hard left and right, with a grand pushed way back in the middle. It seemed to work really well
I was gonna say I would go with a combination of the Live Schimmel and the Spitfire Felt but then the Olafur Arnolds Grand sounded like it was a mix of them.
Voted for the Schimmel, the Soft Piano and Ólafur's coming both second. I think the Schimmel has the best sound for that track, honestly. Love the Soft Piano, though, my mate and I used it to score an American short film, in April, also employing the "transpose and widen" trick to create that lovely immersive sound
1. Schimmel live. 2. Spitfire Felt. 3. Beautiful piece.
That progression reminds me of deadmau5, very nice video Christian super relevant and useful.
Soft Piano and Olafur's are the ones I would choose.
I am torn between the Schimmel live piano and the PP004 Felt Piano. The former does give you the realism dynamically speaking of a real piano and it sounds beautiful instantly, however some parts do get lost in the mix. Therefore I lean more towards the PP004 Felt Piano as it sits right in the mix, has more presence, and it feels more under control to my ears :)
Miss you and videos like these Christian, I hope you are doing well.
I swear by multiband compression on felt pianos (or anything for that matter!) it really helps tame that spike-y low mid range
I think the live Schimmel and the PP004 both sound great, and you definitely couldn't have gone wrong with either, but I think going with the triple felt just sounds right to me. It's less about which sounds better and more about which is right for the track. That's my two cents anyway.
Christian, I WISH I could just whip out those little gems like you did at 11:03. Lovely! I need to figure out how to develop that style of playing. Ideas?
The secret is in compression and reverb for group. This is it. Found it a month ago. btw thank you for your videos, Dear Christian!
In listening in the context of the whole track, to me the Schimmel FELT nicer and more in place. Although, in trying to visualize a movie scene for which the track might be used for, the Olafur FELT more emotive, with the Spitfire coming a close second.
The live Schimmel and Olafur was the best in my opinion.
Triple felt got you the sign off I reckon. It sounds very fresh, overall mix sounds very current with the triple felt so good call. I think a standard piano in this cue might have had the producers asking for another pass.
I like the CH Triple felt, while as music to be listened to the Olafur is very nice and maybe better but the Triple would sit better in a mix against a shot or dialogue. Its deep and gives a lot of emotion from its restraint :D
Schimmel followed by triple felt. Loved the triple felt sound, but the Schimmel had the most impact in the context, in my opinion
Reduction is very important. How much can you leave out and still have a solid foundation? How are you considering the space around your sounds? Great work, Christian. I really get a lot from all these videos.
trying recording the mono versions of these felt pianos. Realized they sit very well in the mix compared to the stereo versions. Spatials i guess
The Spitfire commercial one was the smoothest, most 'produced' sound. The Olafur sounded like er.. Olafur. My preference was actually the live played Schimmel though I could see that you were going for quirky Victoriana in the final track.
i like the live schimmel best. not just the tone, the performance fits better as well from my perspective.
So I chose the Schimmel live. It’s just a beautiful sound. However, my favourite thing to do with a piano is blend them with other pianos. For example I love the sound of the LABS piano with the Una Corda from Native Instruments. They both sound beautiful but have entirely different sounds which I feel compliment each other nicely (you can find an example of this sound in my track “Oceans Journey” on my channel if you are interested). I would love to hear the sound of the Schimmel with the Triple Felt. I’ve been away for New Year but as soon as I get back home tonight I’ll be downloading the Triple Felt and testing this out with the Simcock felt piano.
Hey Liam! how do you blend the LABS and the Una Corda? I want to do that in a track I'm writing. If u can be specific on how you mix them it'd be great. Also do u copy and paste the same part of you play it differently? Thanks man
@@joselain5659 Hey, I haven't done this for ages now. But I would just open them in two separate tracks, balance the levels so it sounds good to you, and pan them to opposite sides for a bit of clarity between the two. Generally I would record both parts at the same time, you can get a sound thats almost a new piano, but you could also record the same part separately if you want it to sound like two players. Up to you, see what sounds good and feels right! :)
Live Schimmel hands down. It has an openness and clarity that the sampled pianos just don't have.
Nothing will ever replace 200 vibrating strings. Schimmel of course
I preferred the brighter, clearer Schimmel. The track is quite uplifting musically, not really requiring the moodiness of too much felt. Sounds like an optimistic, "travelling" cue to me.
I think even though the triple felt sounded really shitty it was still the best!
It was somehow the most human and it gave way to other elements in the track nicely
I like the the low notes of the triple and the high notes of the schimmel. I wonder how it would sound layered like that?
Schimmel live was the best for me. Olafur Felt was a good second. The others for me in the context of that mix was a no no. Great video. Thanks for the effort.
You should of tried the Opto compressor emulation on the piano I love putting a LA2A on the soft piano it adds a creamy saturation
The schimmel live no discussion for me
I liked the live Schimmel best, followed closely by Olafur's piano.
Hey Christian, lovely tips, and that Triple Felt sounds great. Interestingly is that the stereo field sounds a lot nicer to my ears doing that "fake" thing. I often think stereo sampled pianos sound too wide and kind of annoying. Right decision to use that intimate sound of the Triple Felt.
How many sample layers do you most usually do when you do a piano sample library?
Beautiful felt sound, compliments! Could you tell me what type of felt do you use on your piano? And what microphones for recording? Many thanks.
On posher pianos, the middle pedal is the sostenuto pedal, which lifts the dampers off just the strings that are currently being held down - which is another wonderful effect, as you get just certain resonances and harmonics accentuated, like a ghostly sustain of just certain notes.
Does the panning (hard?) left and right only work if the original samples are mono? And if so, what is the best way to make a stereo sample mono?
My vote: LIVE SCHIMMEL. Imho, it doesn't overpower the rest of the track, yet is perfectly clear at all times (and doesn't--in any way--cloud the textures of the percussion, strings, and mandolin), and feels "centered." Doesn't have any "compressed" artifacts, muddiness, or arguable "lopsided-ness" L/R issues as some others.
Hard to choose between the Live and OA. The soft felt sounded nice when you demo'ed it higher, but too resonant and well perhaps "soft" is just the right word, it needs more high end to stand out.
Though I voted the OA, I liked the sound and techniques used with the triple felt. Not really easy to compare it to the others, because it's so different.
I prefer the live Schimmel, without any doubt. May I ask you if you play on a "Schimmel C114 Modern Junior"? Love the sound, I'm considering to buy one. Could you mention some great competitors in this price range, or there are none? About EQing the sound of a particular note, it could be nice to use dynamic EQ. I really enjoyed this video, please do more. :) Thanks for the inspiration, sincerely!
Schimmel, then the Olafur. Quite different ends of the spectrum, both bringing a colour to the track which are satisfying in different ways. The others I find lie in between these two, and don't have the same emotional impact - that veiled, cloudy quality in the Schimmel and the clearer, placid softness of the Olafur. I don't think about the technical aspects of the sounds, just whether a mood is achieved which works. Nice cello btw - is that Solo Strings?
Christian Henson, muito obrigado.
the live schimmel clearly the best in this mix
Have you tried the Sonible EQ plug-ins yet? I think you'd find them really interesting. The AI works well with instruments like this.
Must admit to only listening on iPad speakers so far but the Spitfire Felt seemed to work best... might try again later in headphones and see if that suggests a different piano or not...
I liked the live Schimmel best until I heard the Triple Felt in context. The point of the piano part completely shifts from it being a piano part with cello accompaniment to beautiful cello with something that sorta sounds kinda like a piano as the bed for the cello to shine over. So, for the cue itself, I'll take your final choice as the best. And if there's dialog at this point, I'm sure the Triple Felt version would work the best not crowding it. I do love that Triple Felt sample.
I guess noisy felt pianos are a matter of (acquired) taste, and I still feel more disturbed by too much mechanics - which may be OK for some tracks. On this one I liked Schimmel the most by quite a margin.