👀 GOOD and BAD examples of OVERTAKING and DEFENDING! || Gran Turismo 7
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- I talked about good and bad overtaking in this weeks weekly race guide! So I thought I'd visit some overtakes with some examples. What I deem as a clean overtake and having a look at the GTWS penalties that were given!
00:00 - Intro
03:58 - Sending It
06:27 - Cut Back
10:16 - Around the Outside
19:05 - Blocking In / Positioning
22:46 - Blocking
28:07 - GTWS Incidents
...Enjoy :)
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#GT7 #GranTurismo7 #granturismo - Hry
Note: I was unsure whether to actually post this video after making it as there will be many takes and opinions! If I see it getting out of hand I will take the video down (Make it private). It's meant to draw a discussion around clean overtaking and defending and what people see as right and wrong. The video could have easily been 2 hours long as well but during filming i saw the time rocketing it up, so there maybe a Part 2 if the discussions are good!
Note 2: Also to clarify with nationalities I'm not saying anyone is a bad driver, I'm trying to explain the distinction between nations can have very differing opinions on a given racing incident. I'm friends and respect all drivers from around the world.
Good video man a Banger in my book❤ thank you for your teachings (the way I see it) 😊 like been deployed
I never thought of it that way regarding driving culture. When I was in Egypt, I couldn’t believe how wild the traffic was. There wasn’t a car without some form of dent/scrape because they drive so close together. A lot of cars actually had little foam protection screwed into every side. It blew my mind. Also if you drive for more than 15 secs without honking the horn, your car explodes.
You did a good job carefully crafting this video as can be tricky without causing controversy but when you went onto Road Atlanta I thought you were going to show an incident between 2 popular YT content creators 😂 which would be a very good example to comment on as to who was to blame, I actually couldn't quite decide for sure tbh.
That was a great video. Your point about aggressivity depending on where you are makes total sense. Your country driving style can be seen as harsh or smooth. I m from France living in Vietnam and that way different... Plus the racing aspect. My cousin is a real life pilot, seen as aggressive by some and audacious by others...
Great video and exposition of the different techniques. If you are going to do a part 2, Id love to see an explanation of the "push to pass" method (not sure if that is classified as just a bad send?) - what it looks like, and why it should not be done! Thanks
These videos are pure gold! You do a great job explaining the reasons why and differences between clean, dirty, and just bad driving. Have learned so much from these type of videos along with your other instructional type vids. Thank you!
Thanks for this video. I’m totally on your side. I would like to have a gentleman league for all who like clean driving and clean, understandable rules.
Playstation racer lobby, weeknight 9pm. Respectful lobby racing, with leagues and cups.
Hi Tidge, Thank you for another thoughtful video. All these scenarios are are very informative. They are all skills everyone should aspire to. Unfortunately, us lower rated (DR) drivers are really working hard to stay on the track and maintain some level of race pace. With those prior two factors in mind many of us lose awareness of the radar and inadvertently squeeze overtaking drivers. In my races, I usually attribute a lot of the bad/dirty driving to lack of skill. Most us us just need to develop more skill so we can be more aware of our surroundings and maintain pace.
I agree with your view 100%
I also want to know how to do a clean overtake. Sometimes I'm faster but don't exactly know when to exactly go for a overtake.
Great video Tidge, had to top up my brew it was that long!! I'd be interested in some overtaking tricks maybe, similar to the yamagiwa move.
There can be opinions, but not on the fact of what's right and wrong in racing, I think you're singlehandedly improving the driving standards on GT 👍
I started playing GT7 last year(DR B/S atm). I didn't watch any motorsports so I had no idea what the rules were and so on. I learned racing standards and strategy pretty much from Your channel, Super GTs and Wombleleader. All of you explain your approach and situations very well which let me quickly adjust how i drive and made the game way more fun. Great breakdown. In next video maybe you could draw attention to the desperate moves like nose poking and push to pass. Not sure how much of this happens in higher lobbies.
Great video. There seems to be thousands of videos that will teach us how to be faster (trail braking, race line etc etc) but not many that speaks of race craft like this. More please.
More to come 😊😊😊
Love the video Tidge! Couple things.
1. Videos like this help me know what to do in given situations. They also help me to know when I am guilty in an incident and when it is either the other person's fault or just a racing incident. I think in the past I have felt needlessly guilty.
2. I like the distinction you made between dirty driving and bad driving.
Dirty driving gets right down to the motive.. someone wants to run you off the circuit so they do, or, someone doesn't want you to pass so they pinch you against the wall.
Bad driving is a skill issue. I think many incidents could be avoided if drivers would know their limitations better and stay out of situations that they likely can't keep the car under control. I think a perfect example of that is at Road Atlanta on the outside of turn 1. Most people can't hold that line without going off (I wouldn't trust myself there and would immediately back out). There isn't ill intent with bad driving, but folks should be more aware of what scenarios they can handle and which they should steer away from. As skill increases, then more side by side and close racing can happen. Until then many should play it safer. It can often mean losing one position instead of multiple.
Thanks for making this video Tidg. I hope it turns into a series since there is too much to discuss in just one video.
As someone who has travelled a lot, I completely agree that driving habits in various places in the world, sometimes even within regions of just one country, can vary a lot and greatly influence perspective on clean vs dirty and what is an acceptable amount of aggressiveness while driving. The one thing I'll say about it is regardless of where someone is from, it's up to them to learn how to separate how they drive on the road and on a race track. Every professional driver trains constantly for this regardless of where they are from. Some figure this out faster than others. But sim racing has the underlying "I'll just start again mentality" that doesn't work in real life where there's actual consequences. This is why it would be nice if PD would do a better job of administering penalties than what they currently do.
Rant over. Thanks for the video. I really appreciate your content and perspective
I will definitely look at making it into more of a series.
My favourite overtaking move is Around the Outside but as the same time my least favourite since it's all down to how much trust I have with drivers around me because the most important thing to keep note when racing in a lobby is to analyse and read your opponent's behaviour pattern in order to figure out how to get around them either if they're clean or dirty.
23:57 I despise when they decide to block at the last second when I'm about to send it, it's why I have trust issues with many drivers that do this especially when I'm trying to make my way through the field without having to play rough.
If they're watching their mirrors/radar that much, they're asking to get played.
Think backwards and you'll move backwards, no doubt.
Pretty much on point. The incident at T1 in Atlanta was reminiscent of Max and Lewis at Silverstone. One going wide and then diving for the apex when they knew a car was there. Certainly highlights the most important thing in overtaking and defending. Knowing where the other car is. Whilst some views are worse than others but the game gives you plenty of tools to make sure you do know.
Great video! A race I always remember at Watkins Glen, where me and you went side by side twice through the chicane. Was absolutely terrified 😂😂
Great video. I've taken your clean racing mantra into my gt7 sport races. It makes the racing so much more rewarding and fun when you have clean racing. 👍
This videa is absolutely brilliant. Fantastic explanations of numerous scenarios. I have a buddy that says "blocking is okay if it's the last lap." Like no.... it's never okay to blatantly block somebody.
14:46 i have a theory on this incident. because the spaniard got the penalty he obviously don’t want to lose as much position as possible. which ended resulting some aggressive driving. because he fail 2 times getting the position back he ended up trying a different way to overtake, so what he does is move far to the left as possible so he get a good momentum up the hill and expecting you will send it and ran wide (i.e he want to do the old switcharoo move)… which didn’t happened. so the best thing to do at that moment (well at least according to some driver like him) is just keep the throttle on. which clearly didn’t work and he ended up in the gravel. now if you are me i wouldve just gave up the position and give it to him and just overtake him on the straight by using the slipstream. also i think you should’ve gave him a bit more room so he doesn’t go ran wide. so i guess its more of an race incident. and i guess its just a bad timing from him or not knowing you’ll not send it. and its one of those thing that both of you were making mistakes at the same time. but i would say its more of his fault than yours. i know you are not familiar with me because i didn’t comment on some video unless if its some sort of a question to answer or a discussion. let me know if you kinda agree with my point. lovin your content m8 and hope you making part 2 of this vid. cheers✌🏼
5:30 My favourite place to overtake in the game. I get so many people with that move 😁
My driving style is this: I race you how you race me. If you race me clean I race you clean. If you race me dirty I’ll teach you a jolly good lesson.
Fantastic vid. Thank you.
The video is fine. It’s an account of how this affects you in this instance.
A+ drivers can still make mistakes but should know better regarding driving etiquette. It’s more satisfying to drive within the rules anyways.
As these are clearly immature moves I’d expect they are MUCH younger players 🤔then again they may say I’m too old 😂😂😂😂
Love ya work 👍🏼👍🏼
It was touched upon in the video but a lot of what's acceptable is dependent on who is ultimately setting the rules and making the calls. In this case, PD sets the standards except I can't really say they've been crystal clear on what those are to the overall playerbase other than the penalty system - and the post-race adjucation on recent GTWS incidents - in that they do not like any sort of contact whatsoever during overtaking/defense maneuvers.
I do feel a major problem in regards on learning how to properly overtake and defend in Gran Turismo (or any other online racing game) is the lack of general education. I was quite fortunate that I joined the right racing leagues in GT5/GT6 that had solid rules and great drivers that showed me what great side-by-side racing should look like. I quite liked the fact that there was actual explanations on what made specific overtakes/defending moves in this video good/bad and so more videos with in-game examples would be beneficial.
Finally, my personal notes on the highlighted GTWS incidents:
Incident 1 - I think the Italian mistimed his attempt to cut back on the inside off the final corner. Just a fraction later and there would've been no contact. Doesnt' help the tires on everyone here are basically dead and so getting these car to turn is a chore. I would need multiple viewpoints to make a fair judgment here.
Incident 2 - Classic example of going in too deep, tapping someone in their quarter panel and taking the position away because they got loose. I've seen disagreement on this one but I don't see this overtake as acceptable.
Incident 3 - Usually, you see drivers getting crowded out on exists and not entries. Inclined to believe this was unintentional. The aftermath definitely was intentional.
On top of that most players race the AI and what's the one thing we do with the AI, ram them 🙈
Love the video. When you're amongst known players it's great to race to those tiny margins. But often, the Spidey Contact Radar goes off far earlier, meaning that the risk increases exponentially and you have to limit yourself to safer overtakes. It's great to see the scope in your video, thank you for sharing 😊
Informative video, definitely useful.
Totally agree with everything in overtakes and defending.
Roberto's first blocking, it's his fault yes. Only thing I notice is that his inputs look like controller, and he might be just aiming for one move from left to right but done by moving the stick in a jerking motion rather than smoothly. Last attempt at moving right was too late especially as he knew you were there.
As I play on controller, just saying sometimes moves or defenses could look a bit more blocky than people plan - just to share a thought or play devil's advocate
Excellent video Tidge 👏 great explanations of the different types of overtakes and how to and not to execute them.
I have my lobby greeting set to 'Motorsport is a Non Contact sport' and alot of people in recent weeks are telling me im wrong so hopefully some people will view this video and change their views.
On the Hodgston one, id call that 'boxing you in' rather than 'blocking' and is as you say excellent defending.
Tidgney keep up this line of work/findings/demonstrations watched it all and took it on board. This kinda stuff really helps other drivers and hopefully makes for more drivers to understand lines and manoeuvres on gt7. Yes the penalty system is broke just needed to throw that in.
Great info to take in there,Tidge. I'm not an online racer but I totally agree with your findings. Now if only we could transfer this info over to the AI drivers, like that M. Grady I sometimes get in tangles with. 🤣
That M. Grady needs to be punted (Exception to the no contact rule haha!)
@@tidgney 🤣
Another awesome video Tidge, this should be added to the racing etiquette part of GT.
I'm more of a casual racer and I'm currently on the verge of B class. I see myself as a C class driver in terms of lap time and I enjoy the challenge and the odd occasion I get pole, or win a race. The biggest problem with the lower classes is the overtaking. There is no patience and people will charge through with no regards for consequences for the other car. I've lost count of the number of times I've been punted off the track because someone has decided they'll use my car as a brake.
Good advice again , always worth doing a race craft vid
Hi @tidgney firstly really good video on a topic that personally I feel needs more discussion. Honestly can’t say I disagree with any of your points and would say you’re pretty spot on with your takes.
The one I found really interesting was about how the Mediterranean drivers view aggressive driving compared to say us here in the Uk which kind of makes sense now for a fair few incidents I’ve been involved in with drivers from this region.
12:40 F1 has a lot to answer for with being driven off the outside of corner exits!
Driving a time trial while racing is a point in sport mode. If you decide to race, you should race. 🙃
A great video and a topic that I am sure everyone will have differing views on. If people thought for a second before doing some stunt worthy driving and ask themselves would they do that in real life on the road or track, then I am sure most would not. It is the blatant gandalf-blocking that annoys me (you shall not pass Roberto) along with the blatant rammers. Just dirty driving (would be dangerous in real world) and just unsporting behaviour.
The GTWS revenge crash should have resulted in a removal from race series. Not sure if PD could implement points on racing licence for all instances of dangerous driving and the user would lose their race licence when it had 12 points on it?
I hope there might be a few more of these videos. Nice work Tidge!
Been alot of requests for part 2 and onwards with this series so I've added it to the list so definitely keep an eye out for it!
maybe they should have a colour code system as the background of their username, green for a trusted driver, red for dodgy and yellow for inbetween.
Anyone else notice the Peugeot casually disappear to the shadow realm at 3:35?
Great video and agree with everything. Unfortunately unless you have marshals in races it's very difficult to get decent judgements. Maybe PD needs to look into AI for this especially at the grass roots level with daily races.
I think you should have clarified what you meant my "making the apex". Some people won't understand that it also means holding the apex, so that you don't make contact with the outside car. What you call "sending it" is what I call a Barge Pass. When a Barge Pass makes contact with the outside car, it becomes a dive bomb.
Ye that is an assumption to be fair that everyone understands apex so apologies. I wouldn't call it a barge pass aslongs you make the apex. It's like Dive bombs are perfectly acceptable aslongs you hit the apex, if you miss is then its on the driver doing it (In my opinion)
My main thought about the GTWS incident is that the prize is so hard to get that all drivers are very tight for points so they will do risky manuvers to get those sweet spots at the finals.
It's so over the top and so close that incidents will happen... Tough to judge most of the time. I really think the whole penalty system has to be reworked.
Lopez guy has to be banned. Revenge don't get anything fixed. Violence is always a cycle and we will always do some mistakes
Great video. Rubbing is racing as well but try to keep it respectful. Learn the track and practice multiple lines.
I've honestly noticed what you talked about Tidge with regional driving signatures. My honest opinion based on GT5 and since... Spain/Brazil/USA are the most aggro driving styles and habits(PS I'm American).
-UK and France are usually at least trying to race and not collide.
-There are some nobs in every flag tho.
Brazil 🇧🇷 is really bad. My wife is Brazilian and she says the culture is to cheat when opportunity presents itself. But I can say the Brazilians are good drivers. They channel that spirit of Ayrton Senna when they drive. And considering that many Brazilians probably use controllers because the government charges ridiculous import taxes for electronics and sim gear, they are phenomenal drivers.
From my experience Italians have become the worst in GT7. Back in GT Sport it was the Spanish, but now Italians have taken that title.
I find their SR rating to be more relevant than their national flag. But I'm pragmatic like that.
@@pixelcultmedia4252 I've met plenty of dirty S class SR.
@josephmatuszak3855 My races are B with S ratings and I've been rammed in the final turns at so many races that I can't count by other "S" drivers. The penalty system is bad because I drive clean but had the red down arrow at the end of the race because sketchy drivers run into me and there's contact. The dirty S drivers get good ratings because of luck if they get into a race where there are no other cars that are in their way. But if it's a close battle this is when they race dirty, cutting inside in turns and forcing people off and side ramming in straight aways, and the worst ramming from behind in turns to gain position
I always revenge punt (against the computer, never in sport mode)
Important video. I would disagree that good overtaking is an opinion. There are rules, that you also mention during the video. I think it makes sense to outline those rules at the beginning of the video (meeting apex, being in front etc.)
Cultural driving differences…great take. But also despite that, some drivers just want to watch the track burn. I’ve been lucky the last few races…I wish more people gave places back
Interesting you mention the driving of different countries and funny that the bad examples are players from the country I've had most run ins with, Spanish lol. It's the Brazilians on my USA a/c definitely aggressive and feisty those countries and dirty, not all I should say
Nice to see you saying what we all know in EMEA, that Spanish drivers are the worst in terms of sportsmanship. Of course there are exceptions but as a general rule they are poor.
Amazing video as always. I know this will seem a stupid question but you said if you get 4 tires on the grass then they become slippy…does it not matter having 2 on the grass or does it still affect them?
It's not a stupid question at all! The answer is that you can be 3 tyres off in GT and it doesn't count as being off the circuit so your grip remains fine. It's essentially a flag on the car, that if all 4 wheels go off, then reduce grip, otherwise grip is the same.
RTR 3 wide 💪 😅
We made it work with, DigitGaming & TheKie25 👌🏻💪🏻
Its al about respect and car control 🚗💨
Sorry to bring this up now but, I take it you know your face is in the crowd in Mount Panomara? Was takng pics and thought, he looks familiar!!
Is it?? 👀👀
@@tidgney I think so. Last corner before start/finish. Look around the crowd. If its not you, its your brother!!
I think the penalty system on gt7 at the moment is shocking I got a penalty for someone ramming me while they got no penalty at all. As for overtaking I’d say if you think you can do it without knocking the other driver off it’s safe if the person behind you is a lot faster than you which I’ve had today and they’ve made a move I let them threw at a safe position without losing my speed
25:34 I think Roberto is using a pad, and it's not even the number of moves that matters. Right before his first "move", you move slightly right in his mirror. So he jerks the pad/stick right to cover. It looks like a "move" because he doesn't seem to have much control over the analogue controls. After that first "move", you can see him constantly making small adjustments to keep you in the center of his rear view mirror.
So he didn't make two or three "moves" at all, he was just constantly trying to block you. *Constantly*. Talk about bad defending...
Aggressive drivers also seem to be most sensitive to being overtaken...
Question: 30:08 if Bertani was penalised because sending someone off the road, shouldn’t Paul be penalised as much since he caused TsuTsu to go off track?
Arguably yes
Your examples are pretty obvious imho not food for much debate.
What I would like to know is what's in the grey zone. For example, I admire Super GT but often I see him do a certain technique of which I'm unsure if it's allowed and to what extent.
Take his last race at Fuji for example. In the final rounds he passed the guy, took the lead and defended on the straights by going to the right. But as soon as his opponent would try to pass from the slipstream on his left Super GT would slowly move to the leftside/middel of the track (uou can see it in the radar) effectively pushing his opponent to a less favourable line or risk a crash if he doesn't.
It's a thing I see him do a lot in races and I'd like to know if it's allowed and to what extent.
Cheers,
Seth
In that specific example, you can defend by making 1 move and then return to the racing line. So if someone goes to the left heading towards Fuji Turn 1 you can return to the racing line (Unless there's a car there) then you can't go all the way over. This is why sometimes when attacking you'll go on the racing line, allow the person defending to move across then dive back to the right (As they can't move back to the right).
14:09 do they have room on the circuit there?
I would say it's on the border but the line they can take is the line I normally take for that corner. But yes you could argue there wasn't enough.
Do you guys play in first person view how can you see the cars next to you you really can’t see anything its just a grey indicator to let you know someone is next to you, kinda hard to assess them, I don’t if I’m making sense, I’m probably just a noobie, any tips?
First person as in cockpit camera? I use the radar to try and assess where cars are if that helps.
can you please tell me how to report dirty driving?
Send a letter to PD via carrier pigeon (you don't)
Couldn't have explained the reporting process any better😂
@@darranball2743 we might need to do that 🤣
What's the opinion on faking a move. I've seen drivers fake a move to fool other drivers, like feint left a little than commit to going right, and if it works they have the advantage. Is that one or two moves, and is it legal? I have no opinion here I'm just adding to the conversation.
Feints, to my knowledge, are legal assuming the driver behind still has control over their car and hasn't caused contact.
The thing with them is that selling the fake should be pretty difficult, since there is a distance where an actual move isn't possible anymore and the guy in front should know not to react to it.
The one move rule is for defending, though. The overtaking driver still needs to execute their move(s) cleanly.
Doing a feint while overtaking is fine, but it's one move for defending so moving then moving again I would say is not allowed.
If its your bm chm its defending,if its not your mate its blocking 😅
It was blocking, hence the apology 😕
?? confused. If you mean when I got boxed in that's perfectly legal and I expect anyone to do that.
Brilliant video tidge, gunna have to disagree on juuust 1 thing though, I’d say revenge punts are fine as long as nobody else is harmed 😂
I dont really think the examples you gave for a send were actually sends. You had overlaps on all of them. Most people consider a send when you don't have the overlap before the braking zone but you still come flying down the inside. Maybe that's where the confusions comes from when people say they don't like sends.
I did mention in the video I wanted to find a bigger send as I do, do them, but I don't do them very often. After an hour of searching replays I gave up. You are right, they were soft sends and there's definitely bigger sends out there.
@ 17:00 you were overtaking under a yellow flag... just sayin'
Nice one Tidge, 👏
Like deployed 👍
😎🎙🏎✅️
Stop waffling and get on with it
It's a video and Discussion.
I'm sick of this game every few weeks I don't get any rewards from weekly challenges missed a 6 star car ticket and 3 more rewards. I'm done with trash game.
No announcement needed, just go.
@@Stroker-Z28 like you never made an announcement yourself 😂☠️
I wish they would impose these penalties in lower lobbies in Sport. I just recovered my B level from C because I lost it after several races where I got rammed in final turns. These were deliberate and it took from 4th to last because it was the final turn of the race. It's infuriating to run a race where you are trying to drive defensive and in some cases slower lap times not to make errors. B lobbies if you simply don't make mistakes or crash you can gain positions. But to intentionally ram someone in the in the final turn should be a ban offense..